[00:49] One question I need a quick answer to about the Edubuntu server install. [00:50] Is it required to have 2 nics? [00:50] It seemed that this might have been why the PowerPC install could have encountered an exception. [00:51] I'm about to re-install an i386 system now from scratch and I only have a single nic. [00:52] I'll re-join the conversation from my laptop in a moment. === juliux is now known as JuliusBloch [19:26] I've been trying to exercise the Encrypted Filesystem on LVM option of Edubuntu 7.10 Gutsy. It's not working on i386 nor on PowerPC. [20:01] That was the single automated option I chose. [20:02] you used the alternative cd? [20:02] that worked for me on stock ubuntu [20:02] I'm re-running the installer, choosing a manual partition scheme. Switching encryption from aes to twofish. Changing the keysize down to 128 bits for more speed. [20:03] Yes Johnny, I'm using the alternative i386 edubuntu Server cd. [20:03] hmm... server cd.. encryption would be annoying there [20:03] Wait... that's the Server install. [20:03] Necessary. [20:03] every time you restart the computer, you'd have to type the password.. [20:03] The machine is out in the open and is used for multi-users remotely with NX. [20:04] The machine should stay up for years on end. [20:04] so the encryption won't do very much then.. [20:04] if it's always on [20:04] If somebody seals the machine.... [20:04] That's where I want the encryption in place. [20:05] But it worked for you? [20:05] Was it the server CD or just an alternate install cd for Desktop? [20:06] alternative for desktop [20:06] i put it on my laptop [20:06] and it just worked [20:06] I left /boot unencrypted. This is a terrific feature. I'm very much involved in politics in the US. I believe the encryption will be essential in coming years. [20:07] Well, I suppose I should issue a bug report for Server on launchpad. [20:07] Is it a bug with the installer? What's the installer's name? [20:08] I'll bet the installer's name is ubiquity [20:08] debian-installer [20:08] if it's the alternate cd [20:08] ubuquity is the graphical installer [20:08] err ubiquity [20:09] Thanks [21:11] HI All [21:11] Anyone here got any experience using the Thin Client Manager under VMware? [21:20] Sorry, no I haven't. I'm hoping to though. === svg__ is now known as svg [21:28] ok [21:28] My primary goal is to try out the thin client manager [21:28] and I'm wanting to do it under VMware first due to lack of hardware currently ;) [21:28] However, I can't seem to get VMware to boot across the network [21:28] and wonder if there is a PXE image that can be used to get VMware up and booting [21:29] using bridged networking and booting it using the PXE option (press ESC at boot time) usually works [21:31] hmm [21:31] but I'm creating the new VM at the moent [21:31] and it asks for the installation media - either a .iso or a CD/DVD in the drive [21:31] I can't get past that mode in the wizard to actually tell the VM to "just boot" [21:31] (Using VMFusion btw) [21:32] hmm, never tried fusion, I'm usually using workstation or server on Linux [21:32] go through the wizard then disable everything but the network card [21:34] trying [21:35] hold down "Esc" when booting you reckon? [21:37] at least with workstation that's the way to have the boot menu prompt in the VM [21:37] you may also enter the BIOS and change the boot order (if Fusion emulates a BIOS as workstation and server do) [21:39] hmm [21:39] I've got it booting up now and it's looking for a network boot I think with this message: [21:39] "Press F12 for a network service boot" [21:40] ok, so pressing F12 should make it boot using PXE [21:40] unfortunately there are seom keybooard overrides on OS X that f12 is calling instead of the f12 in the VM [21:40] grhh [21:40] I think these can be disabled under VMfusion however [21:40] checking preference [21:40] s [21:41] right, F12 is exposé or something like that IIRC (alt+F12 with compiz on Linux) [21:41] yup that's correct it is [21:42] turned off theOS X shortcuts and that booted it [21:42] here's the (not) funny part - it's seeing the DHCP network from my wider LAN @ work, instead of the DHCP on the Edbuntu VM that's also running [21:42] DHCP server runs by default on Edbuntu? [21:43] hmm [21:43] hmm, in your case you should probably set two NICs on the Edubuntu VM, one being bridged (the internet), the other being host-only (the LAN on which the edubuntu's dhcp will listen to) [21:43] then set the NIC of your client to host-only [21:44] alternatively you may change your work DHCP to send the PXE settings (that's easy if that's a linux dhcpd server) [21:45] hmm I set the thinclient VM NIC to host only [21:45] and now it finds no DHCP server [21:46] did you add a host-only NIC to the Edubuntu server as well ? [21:46] nope [21:46] I'll attempt to do that now [21:46] never done it before..,. [21:46] that will simulate a server connected to a WAN (you work LAN) and to an internal LAN (your thin clients) [21:47] the dhcpd will run on the host-only card and then your client will receive an ip and the boot parameters [21:48] Would I create the 2nd NIC within Ubuntu or VMware admin (sorry for the dumb q) [21:48] vmware [21:48] you will have to shutdown the VM, add the 2nd NIC and boot it again [21:49] roger - shutting down [21:49] (thanks for this help btw: much appreciated!) [21:50] ok I've got two networks now: 1) NAT 2) host only [21:50] look good? [21:50] yep [21:52] I'm not sure the DHCP server will automatically start on the host-only NIC though, you may have to start it by hand [21:52] just try to boot your client, if that doesn't work, then you'll need to start the dhcp server by hand [21:55] ok - on the phone but will try that in 2mins [22:01] yup didn;'t see the DHCP server [22:01] (from the thin client) [22:01] what's the best way to start this manually do you know under Edubuntu [22:01] sudo ifconfig eth1 192.168.0.254 [22:01] sudo ifconfig eth1:0 192.168.0.1 [22:02] sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart [22:02] should do it, assuming the NIC is on eth1 [22:04] hmm interesting - doing the restart of the srvice failed - presumably it was not running in thefirst place! [22:04] perhaps DHCP does not start at boot up? [22:04] anyway, will try with the thin client now [22:04] I guess it would have started if the NIC was correctly set [22:05] wow! looks like it's booting mate! [22:05] fingers crossed [22:05] (which would have been the case if you had both NICs set at installation time) [22:05] you may experience a problem when opening a session (access refused) [22:05] but maybe not :) [22:05] yeah I did get access refused! [22:06] presumably need to create a user first on the Edubuntu server? [22:06] sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys [22:06] sudo ltsp-update-image [22:06] those two should fix that [22:06] on the host? [22:07] yes, on the server [22:07] ok 2nd command is doing something - creating little endian filesystem... [22:08] yes, can take some minutes [22:08] commands are successful if they don't return output usually [22:08] so it did do something [22:08] just reboot the client after this one completed [22:08] yes I know that (do use Debian linux at work quite a bit) VMware and DHCP is areas I've had v. little experience in however [22:09] That is going to take awhile 25% through [22:09] Macbook Pro is slogging it's guts out now with two VM's running LOL [22:10] my server is running 4 at the moment :) [22:10] and I'm watching a movie connected on a virtual edubuntu server from a real thin client [22:10] damn! [22:10] CPU/RAM specs? [22:11] AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ and 2GB of RAM [22:11] root@vagonbrei:~# uptime 23:11:45 up 2 days, 3:38, 1 user, load average: 0.06, 0.20, 0.21 [22:12] 11:12 up 5 days, 1:28, 2 users, load averages: 1.54 1.52 1.14 [22:12] Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.2Ghz, 2GB RAM [22:12] well, generating a new squashfs uses a bit of CPU :) [22:13] ok well that is all done [22:13] will reboot the client and see what happens [22:13] I'm using Xen for my Linux VMs, it's known to take way less CPU but requires you to boot a patched kernel so only working on Linux AFAIK [22:13] yeah we use Xen quite a bit at work [22:13] with newest intel or amd you dont have to use a patched kernel [22:14] hmm, right with the VT or AMD equivalent thing, haven't tried that way though [22:15] hmm that may have killed it - not booting to a login screen at all now?! [22:15] on thinclient that is [22:15] did netboot however [22:15] ie ran vmlinuz [22:15] weird, try : sudo chmod 644 /opt/ltsp/images/* [22:16] in case something is wrong with file permissions on the squashfs image [22:16] There was a bunhc of info spat out after I ran that command e.g. [22:16] info: port 2000 is already defined in the conf file [22:16] info: taking no action [22:17] could that have killed it>? [22:17] no, that just means that inetd is already configured for that image and will run nbd-server correctly [22:17] so that's fine [22:18] ok [22:18] it's working with the permissikons reset [22:18] trying to log in now [22:19] We have lift off!! [22:21] Hmm got in ok, but appears to have just fallen over (the thin client) i.e. window has completely disappeared! [22:21] but I think I have the config correct at least [22:22] your help was tremendously appreciated [22:22] np [22:22] general q: I would have thought with thin clients that a user database would have to be created first on the host server and that thin clients would authenticate against that user list first [22:22] rather than any user creating a "new" user on the fly [22:23] it uses the same user database as the server [22:23] so basically what you have in /etc/passwd [22:23] ahh! [22:23] or in LDAP if you have set a ldap auth [22:23] 'so I would have logged in as "myself" given on the thin client I used my same user/pass as on the host server [22:23] what a mistake! [22:24] yes, because you certainly logged in twice with the same user/pass which leads to a lot of problem :) [22:24] ok I'll create a new separate user and test with that [22:24] like having nautilus/gconf to complain because they are run twice [22:24] may have more success [22:24] yup [22:24] probably explains why it died when I tried to message myself via the thin client manager ;) [22:25] note that we'll probably move from tcm to italc with hardy (april 2008) [22:25] I'm working on the italc integration in Edubuntu and LTSP [22:26] italc ? [22:26] italc.sf.net [22:27] Looks greast! [22:28] yes, except a crash when entering demo mode, it's ready for integration [22:28] and as I have like 4 months to fix a single crash, it should be in in time :) [22:29] I was a little surprised there were no edubuntu forums like ubuntu - this was the only means of support I could find - I've used the ubuntu forums a lot - do you think edubuntu would ever get their own forums up and running? [22:35] sorry about [22:35] ! [22:35] who says OS X never crashes ;) [22:35] well, I don't know for the others but I'm not much of a forum guy, I'm mainly following the mailinglists and IRC. So if you have questions I think it's better to come here and ask (or for LTSP related #ltsp) or subscribe to one of the mailing-list (http://lists.ubuntu.com) [22:35] think it was the VMware getting well and truly confused [22:35] thanks stgraber [22:35] btw: is LTSP packages available in the standard ubuntu repos ? [22:36] sure [22:36] every Ubuntu derivates share the same package repository [22:36] so you could install kde on a xubuntu install for instance [22:37] yeah but who would choose KDE ;) ;) [22:37] :P [22:38] stop the discrimination, com'on! [22:38] well, it's the second most used desktop so ... :) [22:38] * stgraber was a kde user back to kde 1 and 2 [22:38] ahve to say KDE4 looks pretty faslh [22:38] flash [22:39] yep, I'll have to give it a try. Though it's better to stay with the standard desktop when you are doing Ubuntu development (and QA testing in my case) :) [22:40] installing : ltsp-server-standalone on a standard ubuntu should make your computer a ltsp server (you'll maybe have to tweak the network settings a bit) [22:40] http://asksanta.co.nz/pic1.png [22:41] A screenshot showing my success thanks to you! [22:41] top left = OS X and IRC chat [22:41] bottom left - edubuntu server [22:41] bottom right thin client [22:41] both running in VMfusion [22:42] sweet [22:45] as the server amdin can you remote install x11vnc on a client so you can see what they're doing>? [22:45] I see from within TCM it says this must be installed before you can see their screen [22:45] you would have to do that inside the client chroot [22:46] I think we have the instructions on the wiki, let me have a look [22:46] ok [22:46] https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients [22:46] you'll need to add an extra step at the end [22:46] sudo ltsp-update-image [22:47] those instructions being for feisty were we didn't have the squashfs image but an exported NFS chroot [22:47] *where [22:48] but I have to warn you that the VNC integration in TCM was really buggy (eating tons of RAM IIRC), that's one of the reason why we are moving to italc [22:48] and the described installation of x11vnc lacks of security (no password required for remote control) [22:49] ok - I'm only testing this on local VM at the moment, so no security issues [22:49] read those instructions - this means it would be in place for all thinclients right? [22:49] yes [22:50] the thin clients mount some kind of network share (a squashfs image over nbd) at boot time and then use it as a hdd [22:50] what you do here is modifying this hdd, then all clients will have it after they reboot [23:02] hmm after I've chroot'ed I can't run apt-get anymore [23:02] it gets permissions errors accessing the repo files [23:02] I can run apt-get no worries when not chroot'ed [23:02] $ sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ [23:02] root@edubuntu:/# apt-get update [23:02] Ign file: gutsy Release.gpg [23:02] Ign file: gutsy/main Translation-en_NZ [23:02] Ign file: gutsy/restricted Translation-en_NZ [23:02] Ign file: gutsy Release [23:02] Ign file: gutsy/main Packages [23:02] Ign file: gutsy/restricted Packages [23:02] Err file: gutsy/main Packages [23:02] File not found [23:02] Err file: gutsy/restricted Packages [23:02] etc [23:03] hmm, ok, so try this (outside of the chroot) : sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/ [23:03] then do : apt-get update and the apt-get install inside of the chroot [23:03] I think the sources.list of the chroot is broken [23:03] :P [23:05] sorted ;) [23:05] btw: rebooted the edubuntu server and the DHCP server fails to start again so looks like a boot config issue [23:06] yes, you would have to do the ifconfig trick again [23:06] or set /etc/network/interfaces so eth1 has 192.168.0.254 as IP address set at boot time [23:06] appending : [23:06] I think the problem I'm having with the encrypted filesystem bootup might have to do with the Intel graphics chip support. [23:07] iface eth1 [23:07] address 192.168.0.254 [23:07] netmask 255.255.255.0 [23:07] should do it [23:07] The F1 console is written in bigger fonts sometimes. Maybe I have a problem with the framebuffer? [23:08] joebaker: only tty1 (F1) ? not the others ? [23:09] The others aren't ready yet... this is early in the boot phase. [23:09] try with : vga=normal and without splash as boot parameter [23:09] if that's FB related, your problem will disappear [23:10] (you can edit the boot line in grub by pressing "e" till you are editing the right line, then once edited you can boot pressing "b") [23:10] stgraber - does this look valid for /etc/network/interfaces: [23:10] # The loopback network interface [23:10] auto lo [23:10] iface lo inet loopback [23:10] # The primary network interface [23:10] auto eth0 [23:10] #iface eth0 inet dhcp [23:10] iface eth1 [23:10] Address 192.168.0.254 [23:10] Netmask 255.255.255.0 [23:11] address and netmask without the uppercases and add an "auto eth1" just the line before "iface eth1" [23:12] just "before/after" iface eth1 ? [23:12] before [23:13] # The primary network interface [23:13] auto eth0 [23:13] #iface eth0 inet dhcp [23:13] auto eth1 [23:13] iface eth1 [23:13] address 192.168.254.0 [23:13] netmask 255.255.255.0 [23:13] 192.168.0.254, the rest looks good [23:15] $ /etc/init.d/networking restart [23:15] open: Permission denied [23:15] * Reconfiguring network interfaces... /etc/network/interfaces:13: too few parameters for iface line [23:15] ifdown: couldn't read interfaces file "/etc/network/interfaces" [23:15] line 13: iface eth0:1 [23:16] I changed it from eth1 to eth0:1 to see if that fixed it, but no joy [23:16] argh, right ... : iface eth1 inet static [23:23] generic q stgraber (since you know an awful lot about this stuff!) do you know if icalc or other ltsp apps have been customised for web cafe usage for linux? [23:24] (italc sorry!) [23:24] I know some people use italc to manage web café even if its initial target was classrooms [23:24] depends on what features you need [23:25] I guess some form of timing module and ideally billing module would be necessary [23:25] (just thinking aloud that's all) [23:26] IIRC they have that kind of thing somewhere on italc todolist (or at least a plugin system) [23:27] you can still do that yourself (at least the timing part) with a bit of scripting [23:27] like running a script at session open time which will wait the time the user paid for and the close the session (gnome-session-save --kill --silent) [23:28] yup [23:29] was simply curious if anyone had packaged it altogether in a GUI format that's all - seemingly not at this stage (that you're aware of anyway) [23:29] btw: is iTalc from the Windows world orringally? [23:29] originally [23:29] looking at the screenshots it's all XP'ish [23:30] sort of, it has been done using QT so easily multi-platform [23:32] and they are planning a MacOS X release too [23:33] ahhh! [23:33] http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap [23:37] btw: got VNCX11 working [23:37] thanks for the tip on that [23:37] forgot to run thelast command to update the image [23:37] but worked after doing that [23:40] LOL and yes it's buggy - hung the TCM ! [23:41] I told you :) [23:41] indeed you did ;) [23:44] hmm blanking a users screen is of limited beneift if they can simply enter their own password again and get full access! [23:44] is that the intended usage? [23:44] hmm, well that's how Pete understood my "blank screen" idea :) [23:44] I of course meant to lock the display, not just prompt for the user password :) [23:45] that'll be fixed with italc [23:45] yeah llocking the screen makes far more sense IMHO [23:46] esp. if it's an admin doing it to a user/student [23:46] they're clearly blanking it for a reason! [23:47] well, I've got to say I'm v. impressed with my first forays into thin client usage and Edubuntu [23:55] Are there any dedicated thin client hardware in v. small form factor available? [23:56] yes, they are quite a lot, I haven't installed any large network yet (only playing with old computers as client) so I haven't really searched for that, but I know HP do some [23:56] and there are some specialized manufacturer for that [23:57] expensive do you know? [23:57] http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Clients [23:57] hmm, IIRC the cheapest are like $120, average should be at a bit more than $200 I think [23:58] excluding display I presume? [23:58] indeed [23:59] Last I checked here they were more like $300-$400 but that's because they just receive no request, then have no stock ... Price are different if you directly order from the manufacturer and ask for a significant quantity (I was personaly looking for a single test unit) [23:59] yeah ebay may be a good option to pick up 2nd hand ones in small quantities I guess