[00:49] <joebaker> One question I need a quick answer to about the Edubuntu server install.
[00:50] <joebaker> Is it required to have 2 nics?
[00:50] <joebaker> It seemed that this might have been why the PowerPC install could have encountered an exception.
[00:51] <joebaker> I'm about to re-install an i386 system now from scratch and I only have a single nic.
[00:52] <joebaker> I'll re-join the conversation from my laptop in a moment.
[19:26] <joebaker> I've been trying to exercise the Encrypted Filesystem on LVM option of Edubuntu 7.10 Gutsy.  It's not working on i386 nor on PowerPC.
[20:01] <joebaker> That was the single automated option I chose.
[20:02] <johnny> you used the alternative cd?
[20:02] <johnny> that worked for me on stock ubuntu
[20:02] <joebaker> I'm re-running the installer, choosing a manual partition scheme.  Switching encryption from aes to twofish.  Changing the keysize down to 128 bits for more speed.
[20:03] <joebaker> Yes Johnny, I'm using the alternative i386 edubuntu Server cd.
[20:03] <johnny> hmm... server cd.. encryption would be annoying there
[20:03] <joebaker> Wait... that's the Server install.
[20:03] <joebaker> Necessary.
[20:03] <johnny> every time you restart the computer, you'd have to type the password..
[20:03] <joebaker> The machine is out in the open and is used for multi-users remotely with NX.
[20:04] <joebaker> The machine should stay up for years on end.
[20:04] <johnny> so the encryption won't do very much then..
[20:04] <johnny> if it's always on
[20:04] <joebaker> If somebody seals the machine....
[20:04] <joebaker> That's where I want the encryption in place.
[20:05] <joebaker> But it worked for you?
[20:05] <joebaker> Was it the server CD or just an alternate install cd for Desktop?
[20:06] <johnny> alternative for desktop
[20:06] <johnny> i put it on my laptop
[20:06] <johnny> and it just worked
[20:06] <joebaker> I left /boot unencrypted.  This is a terrific feature.  I'm very much involved in politics in the US.  I believe the encryption will be essential in coming years.
[20:07] <joebaker> Well, I suppose I should issue a bug report for Server on launchpad.
[20:07] <joebaker> Is it a bug with the installer?  What's the installer's name?
[20:08] <joebaker> I'll bet the installer's name is ubiquity
[20:08] <pygi> debian-installer
[20:08] <pygi> if it's the alternate cd
[20:08] <johnny> ubuquity is the graphical installer
[20:08] <johnny> err ubiquity
[20:09] <joebaker> Thanks
[21:11] <seamus123> HI All
[21:11] <seamus123> Anyone here got any experience using the Thin Client Manager under VMware?
[21:20] <joebaker> Sorry, no I haven't.  I'm hoping to though.
[21:28] <seamus123> ok
[21:28] <seamus123> My primary goal is to try out the thin client manager
[21:28] <seamus123> and I'm wanting to do it under VMware first due to lack of hardware currently ;)
[21:28] <seamus123> However, I can't seem to get VMware to boot across the network
[21:28] <seamus123> and wonder if there is a PXE image that can be used to get VMware up and booting
[21:29] <stgraber> using bridged networking and booting it using the PXE option (press ESC at boot time) usually works
[21:31] <seamus123> hmm
[21:31] <seamus123> but I'm creating the new VM at the moent
[21:31] <seamus123> and it asks for the installation media - either a .iso or a CD/DVD in the drive
[21:31] <seamus123> I can't get past that mode in the wizard to actually tell the VM to "just boot"
[21:31] <seamus123> (Using VMFusion btw)
[21:32] <stgraber> hmm, never tried fusion, I'm usually using workstation or server on Linux
[21:32] <stgraber> go through the wizard then disable everything but the network card
[21:34] <seamus123> trying
[21:35] <seamus123> hold down "Esc" when booting you reckon?
[21:37] <stgraber> at least with workstation that's the way to have the boot menu prompt in the VM
[21:37] <stgraber> you may also enter the BIOS and change the boot order (if Fusion emulates a BIOS as workstation and server do)
[21:39] <seamus123> hmm
[21:39] <seamus123> I've got it booting up now and it's looking for a network boot I think with this message:
[21:39] <seamus123> "Press F12 for a network service boot"
[21:40] <stgraber> ok, so pressing F12 should make it boot using PXE
[21:40] <seamus123> unfortunately there are seom keybooard overrides on OS X that f12 is calling instead of the f12 in the VM
[21:40] <seamus123> grhh
[21:40] <seamus123> I think these can be disabled under VMfusion however
[21:40] <seamus123> checking preference
[21:40] <seamus123> s
[21:41] <stgraber> right, F12 is exposé or something like that IIRC (alt+F12 with compiz on Linux)
[21:41] <seamus123> yup that's correct it is
[21:42] <seamus123> turned off theOS X shortcuts and that booted it
[21:42] <seamus123> here's the (not) funny part - it's seeing the DHCP network from my wider LAN @ work, instead of the DHCP on the Edbuntu VM that's also running
[21:42] <seamus123> DHCP server runs by default on Edbuntu?
[21:43] <seamus123_> hmm
[21:43] <stgraber> hmm, in your case you should probably set two NICs on the Edubuntu VM, one being bridged (the internet), the other being host-only (the LAN on which the edubuntu's dhcp will listen to)
[21:43] <stgraber> then set the NIC of your client to host-only
[21:44] <stgraber> alternatively you may change your work DHCP to send the PXE settings (that's easy if that's a linux dhcpd server)
[21:45] <seamus123_> hmm I set the thinclient VM NIC to host only
[21:45] <seamus123_> and now it finds no DHCP server
[21:46] <stgraber> did you add a host-only NIC to the Edubuntu server as well ?
[21:46] <seamus123_> nope
[21:46] <seamus123_> I'll attempt to do that now
[21:46] <seamus123_> never done it before..,.
[21:46] <stgraber> that will simulate a server connected to a WAN (you work LAN) and to an internal LAN (your thin clients)
[21:47] <stgraber> the dhcpd will run on the host-only card and then your client will receive an ip and the boot parameters
[21:48] <seamus123_> Would I create the 2nd NIC within Ubuntu or VMware admin (sorry for the dumb q)
[21:48] <stgraber> vmware
[21:48] <stgraber> you will have to shutdown the VM, add the 2nd NIC and boot it again
[21:49] <seamus123_> roger - shutting down
[21:49] <seamus123_> (thanks for this help btw: much appreciated!)
[21:50] <seamus123_> ok I've got two networks now: 1) NAT 2) host only
[21:50] <seamus123_> look good?
[21:50] <stgraber> yep
[21:52] <stgraber> I'm not sure the DHCP server will automatically start on the host-only NIC though, you may have to start it by hand
[21:52] <stgraber> just try to boot your client, if that doesn't work, then you'll need to start the dhcp server by hand
[21:55] <seamus123_> ok - on the phone but will try that in 2mins
[22:01] <seamus123_> yup didn;'t see the DHCP server
[22:01] <seamus123_> (from the thin client)
[22:01] <seamus123_> what's the best way to start this manually do you know under Edubuntu
[22:01] <stgraber> sudo ifconfig eth1 192.168.0.254
[22:01] <stgraber> sudo ifconfig eth1:0 192.168.0.1
[22:02] <stgraber> sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
[22:02] <stgraber> should do it, assuming the NIC is on eth1
[22:04] <seamus123_> hmm interesting - doing the restart of the srvice failed - presumably it was not running in thefirst place!
[22:04] <seamus123_> perhaps DHCP does not start at boot up?
[22:04] <seamus123_> anyway, will try with the thin client now
[22:04] <stgraber> I guess it would have started if the NIC was correctly set
[22:05] <seamus123_> wow! looks like it's booting mate!
[22:05] <seamus123_> fingers crossed
[22:05] <stgraber> (which would have been the case if you had both NICs set at installation time)
[22:05] <stgraber> you may experience a problem when opening a session (access refused)
[22:05] <stgraber> but maybe not :)
[22:05] <seamus123_> yeah I did get access refused!
[22:06] <seamus123_> presumably need to create a user first on the Edubuntu server?
[22:06] <stgraber> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
[22:06] <stgraber> sudo ltsp-update-image
[22:06] <stgraber> those two should fix that
[22:06] <seamus123_> on the host?
[22:07] <stgraber> yes, on the server
[22:07] <seamus123_> ok 2nd command is doing something - creating little endian filesystem...
[22:08] <stgraber> yes, can take some minutes
[22:08] <johnny> commands are successful if they don't return output usually
[22:08] <johnny> so it did do something
[22:08] <stgraber> just reboot the client after this one completed
[22:08] <seamus123_> yes I know that (do use Debian linux at work quite a bit) VMware and DHCP is areas I've had v. little experience in however
[22:09] <seamus123_> That is going to take awhile 25% through
[22:09] <seamus123_> Macbook Pro is slogging it's guts out now with two VM's running LOL
[22:10] <stgraber> my server is running 4 at the moment :)
[22:10] <stgraber> and I'm watching a movie connected on a virtual edubuntu server from a real thin client
[22:10] <seamus123_> damn!
[22:10] <seamus123_> CPU/RAM specs?
[22:11] <stgraber> AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ and 2GB of RAM
[22:11] <stgraber> root@vagonbrei:~# uptime 23:11:45 up 2 days,  3:38,  1 user,  load average: 0.06, 0.20, 0.21
[22:12] <seamus123_> 11:12  up 5 days,  1:28, 2 users, load averages: 1.54 1.52 1.14
[22:12] <seamus123_> Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.2Ghz, 2GB RAM
[22:12] <stgraber> well, generating a new squashfs uses a bit of CPU :)
[22:13] <seamus123_> ok well that is all done
[22:13] <seamus123_> will reboot the client and see what happens
[22:13] <stgraber> I'm using Xen for my Linux VMs, it's known to take way less CPU but requires you to boot a patched kernel so only working on Linux AFAIK
[22:13] <seamus123_> yeah we use Xen quite a bit at work
[22:13] <pygi> with newest intel or amd you dont have to use a patched kernel
[22:14] <stgraber> hmm, right with the VT or AMD equivalent thing, haven't tried that way though
[22:15] <seamus123_> hmm that may have killed it - not booting to a login screen at all now?!
[22:15] <seamus123_> on thinclient that is
[22:15] <seamus123_> did netboot however
[22:15] <seamus123_> ie ran vmlinuz
[22:15] <stgraber> weird, try : sudo chmod 644 /opt/ltsp/images/*
[22:16] <stgraber> in case something is wrong with file permissions on the squashfs image
[22:16] <seamus123_> There was a bunhc of info spat out after I ran that command e.g.
[22:16] <seamus123_> info: port 2000 is already defined in the conf file
[22:16] <seamus123_> info: taking no action
[22:17] <seamus123_> could that have killed it>?
[22:17] <stgraber> no, that just means that inetd is already configured for that image and will run nbd-server correctly
[22:17] <stgraber> so that's fine
[22:18] <seamus123_> ok
[22:18] <seamus123_> it's working with the permissikons reset
[22:18] <seamus123_> trying to log in now
[22:19] <seamus123_> We have lift off!!
[22:21] <seamus123_> Hmm got in ok, but appears to have just fallen over (the thin client) i.e. window has completely disappeared!
[22:21] <seamus123_> but I think I have the config correct at least
[22:22] <seamus123_> your help was tremendously appreciated
[22:22] <stgraber> np
[22:22] <seamus123_> general q: I would have thought with thin clients that a user database would have to be created first on the host server and that thin clients would authenticate against that user list first
[22:22] <seamus123_> rather than any user creating a "new" user on the fly
[22:23] <stgraber> it uses the same user database as the server
[22:23] <stgraber> so basically what you have in /etc/passwd
[22:23] <seamus123_> ahh!
[22:23] <stgraber> or in LDAP if you have set a ldap auth
[22:23] <seamus123_> 'so I would have logged in as "myself" given on the thin client I used my same user/pass as on the host server
[22:23] <seamus123_> what a mistake!
[22:24] <stgraber> yes, because you certainly logged in twice with the same user/pass which leads to a lot of problem :)
[22:24] <seamus123_> ok I'll create a new separate user and test with that
[22:24] <stgraber> like having nautilus/gconf to complain because they are run twice
[22:24] <seamus123_> may have more success
[22:24] <seamus123_> yup
[22:24] <seamus123_> probably explains why it died when I tried to message myself via the thin client manager ;)
[22:25] <stgraber> note that we'll probably move from tcm to italc with hardy (april 2008)
[22:25] <stgraber> I'm working on the italc integration in Edubuntu and LTSP
[22:26] <seamus123_> italc ?
[22:26] <stgraber> italc.sf.net
[22:27] <seamus123_> Looks greast!
[22:28] <stgraber> yes, except a crash when entering demo mode, it's ready for integration
[22:28] <stgraber> and as I have like 4 months to fix a single crash, it should be in in time :)
[22:29] <seamus123_> I was a little surprised there were no edubuntu forums like ubuntu - this was the only means of support I could find - I've used the ubuntu forums a lot - do you think edubuntu would ever get their own forums up and running?
[22:35] <seamus123> sorry about
[22:35] <seamus123> !
[22:35] <seamus123> who says OS X never crashes ;)
[22:35] <stgraber> well, I don't know for the others but I'm not much of a forum guy, I'm mainly following the mailinglists and IRC. So if you have questions I think it's better to come here and ask (or for LTSP related #ltsp) or subscribe to one of the mailing-list (http://lists.ubuntu.com)
[22:35] <seamus123> think it was the VMware getting well and truly confused
[22:35] <seamus123> thanks stgraber
[22:35] <seamus123> btw: is LTSP packages available in the standard ubuntu repos ?
[22:36] <stgraber> sure
[22:36] <stgraber> every Ubuntu derivates share the same package repository
[22:36] <stgraber> so you could install kde on a xubuntu install for instance
[22:37] <seamus123> yeah but who would choose KDE ;) ;)
[22:37] <pygi> :P
[22:38] <pygi> stop the discrimination, com'on!
[22:38] <stgraber> well, it's the second most used desktop so ... :)
[22:38]  * stgraber was a kde user back to kde 1 and 2
[22:38] <seamus123> ahve to say KDE4 looks pretty faslh
[22:38] <seamus123> flash
[22:39] <stgraber> yep, I'll have to give it a try. Though it's better to stay with the standard desktop when you are doing Ubuntu development (and QA testing in my case) :)
[22:40] <stgraber> installing : ltsp-server-standalone on a standard ubuntu should make your computer a ltsp server (you'll maybe have to tweak the network settings a bit)
[22:40] <seamus123> http://asksanta.co.nz/pic1.png
[22:41] <seamus123> A screenshot showing my success thanks to you!
[22:41] <seamus123> top left = OS X and IRC chat
[22:41] <seamus123> bottom left - edubuntu server
[22:41] <seamus123> bottom right thin client
[22:41] <seamus123> both running in VMfusion
[22:42] <stgraber> sweet
[22:45] <seamus123> as the server amdin can you remote install x11vnc on a client so you can see what they're doing>?
[22:45] <seamus123> I see from within TCM it says this must be installed before you can see their screen
[22:45] <stgraber> you would have to do that inside the client chroot
[22:46] <stgraber> I think we have the instructions on the wiki, let me have a look
[22:46] <seamus123> ok
[22:46] <stgraber> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
[22:46] <stgraber> you'll need to add an extra step at the end
[22:46] <stgraber> sudo ltsp-update-image
[22:47] <stgraber> those instructions being for feisty were we didn't have the squashfs image but an exported NFS chroot
[22:47] <stgraber> *where
[22:48] <stgraber> but I have to warn you that the VNC integration in TCM was really buggy (eating tons of RAM IIRC), that's one of the reason why we are moving to italc
[22:48] <stgraber> and the described installation of x11vnc lacks of security (no password required for remote control)
[22:49] <seamus123> ok - I'm only testing this on local VM at the moment, so no security issues
[22:49] <seamus123> read those instructions - this means it would be in place for all thinclients right?
[22:49] <stgraber> yes
[22:50] <stgraber> the thin clients mount some kind of network share (a squashfs image over nbd) at boot time and then use it as a hdd
[22:50] <stgraber> what you do here is modifying this hdd, then all clients will have it after they reboot
[23:02] <seamus123> hmm after I've chroot'ed I can't run apt-get anymore
[23:02] <seamus123> it gets permissions errors accessing the repo files
[23:02] <seamus123> I can run apt-get no worries when not chroot'ed
[23:02] <seamus123> $ sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/
[23:02] <seamus123> root@edubuntu:/# apt-get update
[23:02] <seamus123> Ign file: gutsy Release.gpg
[23:02] <seamus123> Ign file: gutsy/main Translation-en_NZ
[23:02] <seamus123> Ign file: gutsy/restricted Translation-en_NZ
[23:02] <seamus123> Ign file: gutsy Release
[23:02] <seamus123> Ign file: gutsy/main Packages
[23:02] <seamus123> Ign file: gutsy/restricted Packages
[23:02] <seamus123> Err file: gutsy/main Packages
[23:02] <seamus123>   File not found
[23:02] <seamus123> Err file: gutsy/restricted Packages
[23:02] <seamus123> etc
[23:03] <stgraber> hmm, ok, so try this (outside of the chroot) : sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/
[23:03] <stgraber> then do : apt-get update and the apt-get install inside of the chroot
[23:03] <stgraber> I think the sources.list of the chroot is broken
[23:03] <pygi> :P
[23:05] <seamus123> sorted ;)
[23:05] <seamus123> btw: rebooted the edubuntu server and the DHCP server fails to start again so looks like a boot config issue
[23:06] <stgraber> yes, you would have to do the ifconfig trick again
[23:06] <stgraber> or set /etc/network/interfaces so eth1 has 192.168.0.254 as IP address set at boot time
[23:06] <stgraber> appending :
[23:06] <joebaker> I think the problem I'm having with the encrypted filesystem bootup might have to do with the Intel graphics chip support.
[23:07] <stgraber> iface eth1
[23:07] <stgraber> address 192.168.0.254
[23:07] <stgraber> netmask 255.255.255.0
[23:07] <stgraber> should do it
[23:07] <joebaker> The F1 console is written in bigger fonts sometimes.  Maybe I have  a problem with the framebuffer?
[23:08] <stgraber> joebaker: only tty1 (F1) ? not the others ?
[23:09] <joebaker> The others aren't ready yet... this is early in the boot phase.
[23:09] <stgraber> try with : vga=normal and without splash as boot parameter
[23:09] <stgraber> if that's FB related, your problem will disappear
[23:10] <stgraber> (you can edit the boot line in grub by pressing "e" till you are editing the right line, then once edited you can boot pressing "b")
[23:10] <seamus123> stgraber - does this look valid for /etc/network/interfaces:
[23:10] <seamus123> # The loopback network interface
[23:10] <seamus123> auto lo
[23:10] <seamus123> iface lo inet loopback
[23:10] <seamus123> # The primary network interface
[23:10] <seamus123> auto eth0
[23:10] <seamus123> #iface eth0 inet dhcp
[23:10] <seamus123> iface eth1
[23:10] <seamus123> Address         192.168.0.254
[23:10] <seamus123> Netmask         255.255.255.0
[23:11] <stgraber> address and netmask without the uppercases and add an "auto eth1" just the line before "iface eth1"
[23:12] <seamus123> just "before/after" iface eth1 ?
[23:12] <stgraber> before
[23:13] <seamus123> # The primary network interface
[23:13] <seamus123> auto eth0
[23:13] <seamus123> #iface eth0 inet dhcp
[23:13] <seamus123> auto eth1
[23:13] <seamus123> iface eth1
[23:13] <seamus123> address         192.168.254.0
[23:13] <seamus123> netmask         255.255.255.0
[23:13] <stgraber> 192.168.0.254, the rest looks good
[23:15] <seamus123> $ /etc/init.d/networking restart
[23:15] <seamus123> open: Permission denied
[23:15] <seamus123>  * Reconfiguring network interfaces...                                          /etc/network/interfaces:13: too few parameters for iface line
[23:15] <seamus123> ifdown: couldn't read interfaces file "/etc/network/interfaces"
[23:15] <seamus123> line 13: iface eth0:1
[23:16] <seamus123> I changed it from eth1 to eth0:1 to see if that fixed it, but no joy
[23:16] <stgraber> argh, right ... : iface eth1 inet static
[23:23] <seamus123> generic q stgraber (since you know an awful lot about this stuff!) do you know if icalc or other ltsp apps have been customised for web cafe usage for linux?
[23:24] <seamus123> (italc sorry!)
[23:24] <stgraber> I know some people use italc to manage web café even if its initial target was classrooms
[23:24] <stgraber> depends on what features you need
[23:25] <seamus123> I guess some form of timing module and ideally billing module would be necessary
[23:25] <seamus123> (just thinking aloud that's all)
[23:26] <stgraber> IIRC they have that kind of thing somewhere on italc todolist (or at least a plugin system)
[23:27] <stgraber> you can still do that yourself (at least the timing part) with a bit of scripting
[23:27] <stgraber> like running a script at session open time which will wait the time the user paid for and the close the session (gnome-session-save --kill --silent)
[23:28] <seamus123> yup
[23:29] <seamus123> was simply curious if anyone had packaged it altogether in a GUI format that's all - seemingly not at this stage (that you're aware of anyway)
[23:29] <seamus123> btw: is iTalc from the Windows world orringally?
[23:29] <seamus123> originally
[23:29] <seamus123> looking at the screenshots it's all XP'ish
[23:30] <stgraber> sort of, it has been done using QT so easily multi-platform
[23:32] <stgraber> and they are planning a MacOS X release too
[23:33] <seamus123> ahhh!
[23:33] <stgraber> http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
[23:37] <seamus123> btw: got VNCX11 working
[23:37] <seamus123> thanks for the tip on that
[23:37] <seamus123> forgot to run thelast command to update the image
[23:37] <seamus123> but worked after doing that
[23:40] <seamus123> LOL and yes it's buggy - hung the TCM !
[23:41] <stgraber> I told you :)
[23:41] <seamus123> indeed you did ;)
[23:44] <seamus123> hmm blanking a users screen is of limited beneift if they can simply enter their own password again and get full access!
[23:44] <seamus123> is that the intended usage?
[23:44] <stgraber> hmm, well that's how Pete understood my "blank screen" idea :)
[23:44] <stgraber> I of course meant to lock the display, not just prompt for the user password :)
[23:45] <stgraber> that'll be fixed with italc
[23:45] <seamus123> yeah llocking the screen makes far more sense IMHO
[23:46] <seamus123> esp. if it's an admin doing it to a user/student
[23:46] <seamus123> they're clearly blanking it for a reason!
[23:47] <seamus123> well, I've got to say I'm v. impressed with my first forays into thin client usage and Edubuntu
[23:55] <seamus123> Are there any dedicated thin client hardware in v. small form factor available?
[23:56] <stgraber> yes, they are quite a lot, I haven't installed any large network yet (only playing with old computers as client) so I haven't really searched for that, but I know HP do some
[23:56] <stgraber> and there are some specialized manufacturer for that
[23:57] <seamus123> expensive do you know?
[23:57] <stgraber> http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Clients
[23:57] <stgraber> hmm, IIRC the cheapest are like $120, average should be at a bit more than $200 I think
[23:58] <seamus123> excluding display I presume?
[23:58] <stgraber> indeed
[23:59] <stgraber> Last I checked here they were more like $300-$400 but that's because they just receive no request, then have no stock ... Price are different if you directly order from the manufacturer and ask for a significant quantity (I was personaly looking for a single test unit)
[23:59] <seamus123> yeah ebay may be a good option to pick up 2nd hand ones in small quantities I guess