[06:25] <jebblue> hi Bazaar in Synaptic Package Manager says "Unless you have a pressing reason to use bazaar you should use some other
[06:25] <jebblue> revision control system as upstream development has ceased." yet Ubuntu Launchpad site is promoting Bazaar?
[06:29] <TFKyle> jebblue: possibly you're looking at the package for the old bazaar and not bzr, see http://bazaar-vcs.org/HistoryOfBazaar for details
[06:51] <jebblue> ah ok thanks yup bzr is in there
[06:52] <jebblue> is (in your opinion) bzr generally equal to cvs ?
[06:52] <Peng> jebblue: Equal to CVS is the worst insult you could give. :P
[06:53] <jebblue> hehe ok well I'll need to read some, thnaks
[06:54] <jebblue> thanks
[07:08] <jebblue> I did a co on my cvs repository and then copied that to a new directory and then ran bzr init and it created a repository right there using a hidden dir .bzr!
[07:09] <travisgriggs> hi there
[07:09] <jebblue> that is a shift in thinking so no more CVSROOT type thing I guess - ok back to reading (I skipped ahead)
[07:09] <travisgriggs> i've been reading up on the recent bazaar hype; this all seems intriguing
[07:09] <travisgriggs> i've been "observing" dvcs systems for a while and have yet to plunge in
[07:10] <travisgriggs> i wonder if any of the bzr implementors are here? i have some questions....
[07:11] <Peng> jebblue: Check out conversion software so you don't lose all of your history.
[07:11] <jebblue> ok also I installed bzr-gtk and it is not on my menus or on the path?
[07:11] <jebblue> travisgriggs - ususally best to start with a question man - I'm new to bzr too
[07:13] <travisgriggs> i'd like to build a smalltalk plugin for bazaar. i'm not sure where to start or how feasible this is. Smalltalk systems are live object systems, they can flatten things to files, but the focus is the "image" not a directory of files
[07:13] <Peng> jebblue: (CVS converters tend to run into a lot of issues, so it might work better to use one of the CVS to svn ones, and then convert that to bzr.)
[07:13] <jebblue> ok will do
[07:13] <travisgriggs> i'm curious if it's doable to write a smalltalk interface to bazaar, so that what bazaar thinks it's seeing is a file system, but isn't really
[07:14] <Peng> travisgriggs: I don't think any of the developers are here right now. They are a lot, but they just got 1.0 out the door before Christmas, so some of them are taking some vacation time.
[07:14] <travisgriggs> ok, thanks
[07:15] <Peng> travisgriggs: You could try the mailing list.
[07:16] <Peng> Uh, ok, I'm gonna go. Bye.
[07:16]  * Peng wanders off.
[07:21] <spiv> travisgriggs: the "transport" layer in bazaar is pretty flexible, so it might be possible.  Definitely mail the list; I know there are some devs that are deeply familiar with both smalltalk and bazaar.
[07:42] <dlee> In case anyone around knows... Peng commented earlier that cvs --> svn --> bzr might be better than direct cvs --> bzr.  I've been trying Tailor to go from CVS straight to BZR, and it seems to work fine except (I) I've not tried branched CVS repos yet, and (II) *it loses all my CVS tags!* :-P  So I'm open to recommendations on a better way to do this.  I also do need to convert one svn repo to bzr, for which I would use Tailor except it b
[07:43] <dlee> I am trying to talk my office into using bzr, but though I warned them I was watching and waiting for bzr 1.0 a month or two ago, a strong move toward svn got afoot in the last couple weeks, and so now I'm basically going head to head (no pun intended) over VCS systems...
[07:49] <lifeless> dlee: cvsps-import is very good
[07:50] <lifeless> travisgriggs: the squeak fuse thing would be enough for bzr I think, or enough with a little work
[07:58] <dlee> For my svn import--and this is probably a long shot:  I actually have a CVS repo whose HEAD about matches the first revision of the svn repo for the same project.  It would be cool to put the CVS and svn history both into bzr, but I have reason to keep the bzr rev numbers the same as the svn ones.  I've noticed that bound branch local commits can create rev numbers like 1.1.1 ... is it possible somehow to build a bzr history that contains
[08:10] <Peng> dlee: For svn, there's bzr-svn, which actually lets bzr interact with svn branches.
[08:11] <Peng> dlee: BTW, one of your messages ended at "Tailor except it" and the other at "history that contain". (Actually, they both ended one character after that, but my IRC client seems to have an off-by-one bug that cuts off the last character.)
[08:12] <bitmonk> +1 to bzr-svn.  get it working, pull from your svn url, and never look back.
[08:12]  * Peng wanders off.
[08:12] <bitmonk> or, well, if you have collaborators who don't want to switch yet, you can just merge from bzr into svn.  it's very handy.
[08:46] <dlee> Thanks, studying plugins...
[11:03] <thumper> happy new year from UTC+13
[11:05] <Peng> Bah, lucky.
[11:05] <Peng> Happy New Year's Eve from UTC-05.
[11:09] <Peng> thumper from New Zealand? Have I seen you in Mozilla circles?
[17:10] <LeoNerd> Hrm... The sftp transport doesn't like long roundtrips
[17:10] <LeoNerd> I'm here on a train with satelite wireless, so the latency is huge... 'bzr push' takes forever...
[17:50] <radix> LeoNerd: bzr+ssh should be better
[19:59] <thumper> Peng: unlikely, I haven't been in Mozilla circles
[20:24] <lifeless> LeoNerd: using a pack repo ?
[20:54] <dlee> Peng, belated answer--you observed that two of my lines were truncated.  Arg...they look fine here--must be a 440-or-so char-per-line limit in some IRC server/client or another.  Anyway, fwiw, here are the two lines, split so they should travel unmolested:
[20:55] <dlee> In case anyone around knows... Peng commented earlier that cvs --> svn --> bzr might be better than direct cvs --> bzr.  I've been trying Tailor to go from CVS straight to BZR, and it seems to work fine except (I) I've not tried branched CVS repos yet, and (II) *it loses all my CVS tags!* :-P  So I'm open to recommendations on a better way to do this.  I also do need to convert one svn repo to bzr, for which I would use Tailor
[20:55] <dlee> except it blows up on Windows+Cygwin because there's one file rename that only changes letter casing (a big oopsie on my part there).
[20:55] <dlee> For my svn import--and this is probably a long shot:  I actually have a CVS repo whose HEAD about matches the first revision of the svn repo for the same project.  It would be cool to put the CVS and svn history both into bzr, but I have reason to keep the bzr rev numbers the same as the svn ones.  I've noticed that bound branch local commits can create rev numbers like 1.1.1 ... is it possible somehow to build a bzr history
[20:55] <dlee> that contains the cvs stuff plus one sort of glue commit at revs < 2, then the svn revisions from there with their original numbers?
[20:56] <dlee> (end of resends ... and I'm now trying cvs-import and plan to use earlier conversations in here as a guide to setting up the svn plugin)
[21:26] <lifeless> dlee: 'bzr-cvsps-import' on lanchpad, and call the plugin in ~/.bazaar/plugins 'cvsps' works for me
[21:28] <dlee> lifeless: I'm playing with that--looks like it got the branches and the tags from one of my more complex CVS projects, though I do wonder why it parks the tags in a directory instead of using bzr tag so "bzr tags" can work
[21:29] <dlee> Maybe bzr tags are new?  I saw a page yesterday saying bzr does not support tags.
[21:29] <fullermd> They were new in 0.15.  cvsps-import was mostly done before that, so...
[21:29] <dlee> ic
[21:57] <dlee> You know about Bazaar?  I think I asked you once by phone a while ago though.
[21:58] <dlee> Lol that was a misdirected  private msg :P