| seamus123 | http://www.disklessthinclients.com/secure/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=51 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| stgraber | indeed, I saw some thin clients at interesting price on ebay | 00:00 |
| seamus123 | I guess still quite expensive compared with buying a full on dell or equivalent low end system | 00:01 |
| pygi | HedgeMage ! | 00:01 |
| stgraber | just make sure to ask on #ltsp before making any thin clients order, there are people with great experience of thin clients hardware who will be able to tell you if it's a good idea or not to buy a specific thin client | 00:02 |
| seamus123 | Thanks for tthe tip stgraber | 00:02 |
| seamus123 | appreciated | 00:02 |
| seamus123 | ~$ apt-cache search italc | 00:06 |
| seamus123 | italc-client - Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers | 00:06 |
| seamus123 | italc-master - Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers | 00:06 |
| seamus123 | in the repos already>? | 00:06 |
| seamus123 | stable? | 00:06 |
| stgraber | it's a buddy 1.0.2 I guess | 00:06 |
| stgraber | *buggy | 00:06 |
| stgraber | crashing as soon as you try to start a VNC connection | 00:07 |
| seamus123 | ahh the aforementioned bug you're ironing out ;) | 00:07 |
| stgraber | are you running gutsy i386 or amd64 ? | 00:07 |
| stgraber | nope, mine is just in the demo mode, other VNC interactions (viewing and taking control) work fine here | 00:08 |
| seamus123 | running 7.10 (downloaded this morning) in VM ware on 1386 | 00:08 |
| stgraber | ok, so building an italc 1.0.4 for gutsy i386 now, will take like 10minutes | 00:09 |
| stgraber | this one should work without any crash except if you try to enter "demo" mode, viewing screen, taking control, locking, logging out, .. everything else should work fine | 00:09 |
| seamus123 | hmm ok | 00:09 |
| seamus123 | so from a client perspective it should be fine i.e. my thin client boots over PXE as it does now, but I'd use iTalc instead of TCM to manage it? | 00:10 |
| stgraber | yes | 00:10 |
| stgraber | italc doesn't require x11vnc, so you wouldn't have to change the chroot if using italc | 00:11 |
| seamus123 | ok | 00:11 |
| seamus123 | installing now | 00:11 |
| seamus123 | where/why would you install the client component ? | 00:11 |
| stgraber | italc is made of two part : ica which is the client part must run on both the clients (students in my case) and on the master (teacher in my case) | 00:12 |
| stgraber | then "italc" itself is the tacher part and is run only on the teacher computer | 00:12 |
| stgraber | access is restricted by unix groups (you have public and private keys, the one who can read the private keys is the teacher) | 00:12 |
| stgraber | so you basically run "ica" by default for everyone, then only the teacher (admin group) can run italc and connect to the clients | 00:13 |
| seamus123 | running italc from the command line after installing gave me all the errors about no student comps online and no keys generated either | 00:13 |
| seamus123 | so looks like time for me to dive into the online manual! | 00:13 |
| stgraber | yes, gutsy's package isn't that good :) | 00:14 |
| stgraber | my package generates the keys at installation time | 00:14 |
| seamus123 | available on a daily snapshot anywhere? | 00:14 |
| stgraber | I'm uploading a gutsy i386 package just now | 00:14 |
| seamus123 | ah | 00:15 |
| stgraber | http://www.stgraber.org/download/italc-gutsy/ | 00:15 |
| stgraber | I haven't tested them, they finished building 30s ago and I no longer have gutsy computers except my servers | 00:16 |
| seamus123 | installing now | 00:23 |
| seamus123 | LOL it kindly advised me to install the old version from the repos ;) | 00:24 |
| === pauljw is now known as Wiley | ||
| stgraber | you should install them in that order : libitalc, italc-client, italc-master | 00:25 |
| stgraber | or : sudo dpkg -i *.deb && sudo apt-get -f install | 00:25 |
| stgraber | which will solve the various dependency issues (installing missing packages if any) | 00:25 |
| seamus123 | yeah got round that, all installed | 00:26 |
| stgraber | if you run : ica -role teacher | 00:26 |
| stgraber | and then : italc | 00:26 |
| stgraber | you should have the teacher UI | 00:26 |
| === Wiley is now known as pauljw | ||
| seamus123 | hmm ran that command but nothing happened | 00:27 |
| stgraber | ica -role teach is some kind of daemon so will only stop when it crashes | 00:28 |
| stgraber | s/teach/teacher/ | 00:28 |
| stgraber | so just start this one in a console and open another to run : italc | 00:28 |
| seamus123 | ok | 00:29 |
| seamus123 | Ahh there's the QT goodness ;) LOL | 00:29 |
| seamus123 | Reminds me (lovingly) of Amarok! | 00:30 |
| stgraber | you can run : "ica -noshm -ivsport 10000 -isdport 11000" on the client | 00:30 |
| seamus123 | so I need these three packages also installed on my thin client right? (well perhaps not the master one) | 00:30 |
| stgraber | then create a classroom and add a new client with : 127.0.0.1:10000 as address | 00:31 |
| seamus123 | ah - you pre-empted me | 00:31 |
| stgraber | nope, you just need them on the server, nothing to install in the chroot | 00:31 |
| stgraber | as the gnome session you see on the client is the gnome installed on the server, only low-level things are installed in the chroot (initscripts, some system binaries and X basically) | 00:32 |
| seamus123 | sorry, ica -noshm -ivsport 10000 -isdport 11000 needs to be run on the server right, not the thin client? | 00:33 |
| seamus123 | thinclient didn't recognise the ica command when I attempted it | 00:33 |
| stgraber | try opening a gnome-terminal on the thin client (virtual in your case) and run the ica thing, it should work | 00:33 |
| seamus123 | Hmm that's what I did | 00:34 |
| seamus123 | got this: | 00:34 |
| seamus123 | Unrecognised commmandline-argument -sdport | 00:34 |
| seamus123 | ahh typo!! | 00:34 |
| seamus123 | my bad | 00:34 |
| stgraber | :) | 00:34 |
| seamus123 | ok ran that anda dded the classroom on the same address in classroom manager | 00:35 |
| seamus123 | I've added the classroom | 00:36 |
| seamus123 | do I manually need to add the computer? | 00:36 |
| seamus123 | or should it be able to see it? | 00:36 |
| stgraber | yes | 00:36 |
| stgraber | you have to add it by hand, address = 127.0.0.1:10000 | 00:37 |
| stgraber | I have some scripts here that generates the config file automatically but that's for the next version of the package | 00:37 |
| seamus123 | ok - added, but it says host unreachable | 00:38 |
| seamus123 | hmm | 00:38 |
| seamus123 | actually it's seeing itself again | 00:38 |
| seamus123 | perhaps I entered the wrong IP for thinclient | 00:38 |
| seamus123 | double chekcing | 00:38 |
| stgraber | did you specify 127.0.0.1:10000 (not the :10000 which is the ivsport of the client) | 00:39 |
| stgraber | s/not/note/ | 00:39 |
| * stgraber is doing more and more typos ... looks like it's time to consider going to bed :) | 00:40 | |
| seamus123 | hmm I added a classroom with address of "127.0.0.1:10000" | 00:40 |
| seamus123 | and then added a computer to the classroom with the same address | 00:40 |
| stgraber | ok, you could have called your classroom any other name, it doesn't matter. Though it's strange you don't see the client as it should be listening on :10000 | 00:41 |
| stgraber | but as I said I haven't tried on Gutsy (7.10), maybe the fixes I did for Hardy (8.04) broke the VNC part for Gutsy (QT version change and funny things like that) | 00:41 |
| seamus123 | $ ica -role teacher | 00:43 |
| seamus123 | [warning] isdConnection::readFromServer(): connection failed: 0 | 00:43 |
| seamus123 | [warning] demoServer::updaterThread::run(): could not connect to local IVS! | 00:43 |
| seamus123 | [warning] isdConnection::open(): unable to connect to server on client 127.0.0.1 | 00:43 |
| seamus123 | [warning] demoServer::updaterThread::run(): could not connect to local IVS! | 00:43 |
| seamus123 | [warning] QProcess: Destroyed while process is still running. | 00:43 |
| stgraber | hmm, yes it looks like either some kind of safe guard (as it thinks you are going to enter a loop) or a bug in QT ... | 00:45 |
| seamus123 | I think it could be weirdism with the VM IP's to be honest | 00:45 |
| seamus123 | on the thin client I have two IP: | 00:45 |
| stgraber | it's something I'll have to investigate (as I have a test classroom using it on Gutsy), but hmm, it's bed time here :) | 00:46 |
| seamus123 | 172.16.42.129. | 00:46 |
| seamus123 | and 192.168.0.254 | 00:46 |
| seamus123 | when I enter both of those into italc as the client IP it only shows the master screen | 00:46 |
| seamus123 | not the thin client | 00:46 |
| stgraber | and adding :10000 doesn't help I guess ? (without any specified port number, it means you own ica which then shows your own screen) | 00:47 |
| seamus123 | http://asksanta.co.nz/italc.png | 00:50 |
| seamus123 | ha! Just looked at your homepage - I was actually viewing this on the w/e when I was searching for Ubuntu teacher tools! | 00:51 |
| seamus123 | and now I'm talkig to you! how v. cool | 00:52 |
| seamus123 | I was actually trying to go to switzerland for 2008 | 00:52 |
| seamus123 | biut was dependent on my wife getting a job as a dentist there | 00:52 |
| seamus123 | SSO.ch helped, but didn't eventuate in the end :() | 00:52 |
| seamus123 | would have loved to have spent a year there! | 00:52 |
| stgraber | hmm, maybe just try to close italc and open it again | 00:53 |
| stgraber | in case it's one of those weird config thing I already had (their XML handler isn't so good actually) | 00:53 |
| seamus123 | yeah same issue - restarted italc, sees the two comps (different IP) but both showing the master screen | 00:54 |
| seamus123 | will put it down to the VM trickery | 00:54 |
| seamus123 | shame, looks like a good app and I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it! | 00:54 |
| seamus123 | YOu say it will be bundled in place of TCM in hardy? | 00:55 |
| stgraber | yes | 00:55 |
| seamus123 | v.good! | 00:55 |
| stgraber | TCM is unmaintained since feisty (7.04) (Pete is lacking of time), so we preferred to choose an already existing tool and integrating it rather than writting our own | 00:56 |
| seamus123 | understandable | 00:56 |
| pygi | forgive me, but what will be in instead of TCM?:P | 00:58 |
| pygi | (I didn't listen :P) | 00:58 |
| stgraber | italc | 00:59 |
| pygi | somebody inform me of what that is :) | 00:59 |
| stgraber | http://italc.sf.net | 00:59 |
| stgraber | an existing tool done in C++ and using QT, running on both Windows and Linux (MacOS is on the roadmap) | 00:59 |
| pygi | well, seems more mature then TCM for sure :p | 01:00 |
| stgraber | not hard :) | 01:00 |
| pygi | weird UI tho | 01:00 |
| pygi | yea, that's why I said it :p | 01:00 |
| stgraber | yes, that's a Windows-like UI done using QT ... ogra hates it and so do I :) | 01:00 |
| pygi | stgraber, fork and write new UI :p | 01:01 |
| stgraber | I'll try to make it a bit more Linux friendly :) (we already turned of some help balloons which were really annoying) | 01:01 |
| stgraber | hmm, I'm not good at QT neither am I at C++ | 01:01 |
| pygi | you learn =) | 01:01 |
| stgraber | I'm more a python/gtk guy ... | 01:01 |
| seamus123 | would it be possible to change the GUI to be more gnome like? | 01:01 |
| pygi | stgraber, split the backend part, bind it in python, and create pygtk interface =) | 01:01 |
| pygi | seamus123, just discussing :P | 01:02 |
| pygi | but in theory, hard | 01:02 |
| stgraber | well, that would mean moving from QT to GTK which isn't really easy | 01:02 |
| seamus123 | ko | 01:02 |
| seamus123 | ok | 01:02 |
| stgraber | and our goal was to patch an upstream release, but with patch <80% of the code :) | 01:02 |
| pygi | :P | 01:02 |
| stgraber | it's QT thing everywhere in his code, so that would mean a really massive rewrite | 01:02 |
| stgraber | he's moving some part of the code into a library, so maybe one day ... | 01:03 |
| pygi | this UI seems really bad :-/ | 01:03 |
| pygi | it's like ... designed for a computer, instead of a user | 01:03 |
| stgraber | yes, and there are some funny bugs like huge UTF-8 misdetection (funny when you have First/Last name with special chars in them) | 01:04 |
| pygi | it's not QT that's problem IMHO ... UI itself is the problem ;P | 01:04 |
| stgraber | it's done for Windows users | 01:05 |
| seamus123 | LOL | 01:05 |
| stgraber | and most Windows tools like italc have UI really similar to italc's | 01:05 |
| stgraber | (I have GenevaLogic's Vision or NetOP school in mind) | 01:05 |
| pygi | yup, saw NetOp | 01:06 |
| pygi | NetOp is nicer then this tho | 01:06 |
| pygi | stgraber, why dont you take over that tool we had? | 01:06 |
| stgraber | I'm spending 90% of my free time working on the Ubuntu QA website | 01:06 |
| pygi | ah, no idea what that is yet so ... :P | 01:07 |
| stgraber | so I have done a reworked version of TCM handling VNC in a better way, working with screenshots for preview and so on, but it's still the usual problem, we would need someone to work on that :) | 01:07 |
| stgraber | and using italc make integration in schools easier as some of them are already using it on Windows | 01:07 |
| pygi | and using italc makes users cry :P | 01:08 |
| stgraber | https://iso.qa.stgraber.org for instance, that's the ISO Testing tracker | 01:08 |
| pygi | ah, I know that, yes | 01:08 |
| pygi | nice work on that | 01:08 |
| stgraber | or http://iso.test.stgraber.org for the version I'm currently working on (with a uhm... huge todolist) | 01:08 |
| pygi | btw. django, turbogears, what? | 01:09 |
| stgraber | drupal | 01:09 |
| pygi | joy ;P | 01:11 |
| pygi | php :) | 01:11 |
| pygi | you can do such evil things out of php? :P | 01:11 |
| pygi | how? :) | 01:11 |
| pygi | ergh, I meant drupal | 01:12 |
| stgraber | yes, you can :) | 01:12 |
| stgraber | but it doesn't use much drupal functions except for the user management part :) | 01:13 |
| pygi | :P | 01:13 |
| pygi | thought so :) | 01:13 |
| * pygi wonders how easy would it be to do a rails/merb prototype of the same | 01:13 | |
| pygi | not too hard if I had the template, I suck at css and stuff :P | 01:14 |
| stgraber | so do I, that's why we love the ubuntu-art guys and the official ubuntu theme :) | 01:14 |
| pygi | :D | 01:15 |
| pygi | stgraber, you know at least a tiny bit of ruby? | 01:15 |
| pygi | we could try to prototype new version there if your version is not ready :) | 01:15 |
| stgraber | well, the new version is to be released next week :) (should be on-line by the 10th) | 01:16 |
| pygi | we can do it in 3 days :P | 01:16 |
| pygi | so it's faster :p | 01:16 |
| pygi | (just a joke ... you're rocking ;)) | 01:17 |
| stgraber | if I didn't have to do it in php at the first place, I would certainly have done it in python or eventually ruby (I don't know if Canonical's sysadmin like ruby but they surely hate php :)) | 01:18 |
| pygi | why did you had to do it in php? :p | 01:19 |
| stgraber | because I was doing it at school while my classmates were studying php | 01:19 |
| pygi | :D :D :D :D :D | 01:19 |
| pygi | nice :P | 01:20 |
| pygi | well, once new release is out we can talk about porting to ruby :) | 01:20 |
| pygi | (or python, but I'm learning ruby now so it's more fun :P) | 01:20 |
| pygi | now time to go to sleep, I gotta get up in 3.5 hours | 01:21 |
| pygi | happy new year :) | 01:21 |
| stgraber | hehe, so do I ... CET time .. | 01:21 |
| stgraber | happy new year to you to | 01:21 |
| pygi | yup xD | 01:21 |
| pygi | 2:21AM :p | 01:21 |
| stgraber | yeah | 01:21 |
| pygi | haha :D | 01:22 |
| seamus123 | well, new's year is only 10hrs away for me! | 01:22 |
| pygi | good night :) | 01:22 |
| seamus123 | NZST! | 01:22 |
| pygi | seamus123, go party :P | 01:22 |
| seamus123 | you too - enjoy | 01:22 |
| pygi | or write us a new tool supported on all major platforms :p | 01:22 |
| * pygi is out | 01:22 | |
| stgraber | :) | 01:22 |
| * stgraber too | 01:23 | |
| seamus123 | thanks again for your help | 01:23 |
| subopt | Where can i find the detailed package listings for edubuntu? | 17:22 |
| === paulj1 is now known as pauljw | ||
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