[00:00] <seamus123> http://www.disklessthinclients.com/secure/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=51
[00:00] <stgraber> indeed, I saw some thin clients at interesting price on ebay
[00:01] <seamus123> I guess still quite expensive compared with buying a full on dell or equivalent low end system
[00:01] <pygi> HedgeMage !
[00:02] <stgraber> just make sure to ask on #ltsp before making any thin clients order, there are people with great experience of thin clients hardware who will be able to tell you if it's a good idea or not to buy a specific thin client
[00:02] <seamus123> Thanks for tthe tip stgraber
[00:02] <seamus123> appreciated
[00:06] <seamus123> ~$ apt-cache search italc
[00:06] <seamus123> italc-client - Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers
[00:06] <seamus123> italc-master - Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers
[00:06] <seamus123> in the repos already>?
[00:06] <seamus123> stable?
[00:06] <stgraber> it's a buddy 1.0.2 I guess
[00:06] <stgraber> *buggy
[00:07] <stgraber> crashing as soon as you try to start a VNC connection
[00:07] <seamus123> ahh the aforementioned bug you're ironing out ;)
[00:07] <stgraber> are you running gutsy i386 or amd64 ?
[00:08] <stgraber> nope, mine is just in the demo mode, other VNC interactions (viewing and taking control) work fine here
[00:08] <seamus123> running 7.10 (downloaded this morning) in VM ware on 1386
[00:09] <stgraber> ok, so building an italc 1.0.4 for gutsy i386 now, will take like 10minutes
[00:09] <stgraber> this one should work without any crash except if you try to enter "demo" mode, viewing screen, taking control, locking, logging out, .. everything else should work fine
[00:09] <seamus123> hmm ok
[00:10] <seamus123> so from a client perspective it should be fine i.e. my thin client boots over PXE as it does now, but I'd use iTalc instead of TCM to manage it?
[00:10] <stgraber> yes
[00:11] <stgraber> italc doesn't require x11vnc, so you wouldn't have to change the chroot if using italc
[00:11] <seamus123> ok
[00:11] <seamus123> installing now
[00:11] <seamus123> where/why would you install the client component ?
[00:12] <stgraber> italc is made of two part : ica which is the client part must run on both the clients (students in my case) and on the master (teacher in my case)
[00:12] <stgraber> then "italc" itself is the tacher part and is run only on the teacher computer
[00:12] <stgraber> access is restricted by unix groups (you have public and private keys, the one who can read the private keys is the teacher)
[00:13] <stgraber> so you basically run "ica" by default for everyone, then only the teacher (admin group) can run italc and connect to the clients
[00:13] <seamus123> running italc from the command line after installing gave me all the errors about no student comps online and no keys generated either
[00:13] <seamus123> so looks like time for me to dive into the online manual!
[00:14] <stgraber> yes, gutsy's package isn't that good :)
[00:14] <stgraber> my package generates the keys at installation time
[00:14] <seamus123> available on a daily snapshot anywhere?
[00:14] <stgraber> I'm uploading a gutsy i386 package just now
[00:15] <seamus123> ah
[00:15] <stgraber> http://www.stgraber.org/download/italc-gutsy/
[00:16] <stgraber> I haven't tested them, they finished building 30s ago and I no longer have gutsy computers except my servers
[00:23] <seamus123> installing now
[00:24] <seamus123> LOL it kindly advised me to install the old version from the repos ;)
[00:25] <stgraber> you should install them in that order : libitalc, italc-client, italc-master
[00:25] <stgraber> or : sudo dpkg -i *.deb && sudo apt-get -f install
[00:25] <stgraber> which will solve the various dependency issues (installing missing packages if any)
[00:26] <seamus123> yeah got round that, all installed
[00:26] <stgraber> if you run : ica -role teacher
[00:26] <stgraber> and then : italc
[00:26] <stgraber> you should have the teacher UI
[00:27] <seamus123> hmm ran that command but nothing happened
[00:28] <stgraber> ica -role teach is some kind of daemon so will only stop when it crashes
[00:28] <stgraber> s/teach/teacher/
[00:28] <stgraber> so just start this one in a console and open another to run : italc
[00:29] <seamus123> ok
[00:29] <seamus123> Ahh there's the QT goodness ;) LOL
[00:30] <seamus123> Reminds me (lovingly) of Amarok!
[00:30] <stgraber> you can run : "ica -noshm -ivsport 10000 -isdport 11000" on the client
[00:30] <seamus123> so I need these three packages also installed on my thin client right? (well perhaps not the master one)
[00:31] <stgraber> then create a classroom and add a new client with : 127.0.0.1:10000 as address
[00:31] <seamus123> ah - you pre-empted me
[00:31] <stgraber> nope, you just need them on the server, nothing to install in the chroot
[00:32] <stgraber> as the gnome session you see on the client is the gnome installed on the server, only low-level things are installed in the chroot (initscripts, some system binaries and X basically)
[00:33] <seamus123> sorry, ica -noshm -ivsport 10000 -isdport 11000 needs to be run on the server right, not the thin client?
[00:33] <seamus123> thinclient didn't recognise the ica command when I attempted it
[00:33] <stgraber> try opening a gnome-terminal on the thin client (virtual in your case) and run the ica thing, it should work
[00:34] <seamus123> Hmm that's what I did
[00:34] <seamus123> got this:
[00:34] <seamus123> Unrecognised commmandline-argument -sdport
[00:34] <seamus123> ahh typo!!
[00:34] <seamus123> my bad
[00:34] <stgraber> :)
[00:35] <seamus123> ok ran that anda dded the classroom on the same address in classroom manager
[00:36] <seamus123> I've added the classroom
[00:36] <seamus123> do I manually need to add the computer?
[00:36] <seamus123> or should it be able to see it?
[00:36] <stgraber> yes
[00:37] <stgraber> you have to add it by hand, address = 127.0.0.1:10000
[00:37] <stgraber> I have some scripts here that generates the config file automatically but that's for the next version of the package
[00:38] <seamus123> ok - added, but it says host unreachable
[00:38] <seamus123> hmm
[00:38] <seamus123> actually it's seeing itself again
[00:38] <seamus123> perhaps I entered the wrong IP for thinclient
[00:38] <seamus123> double chekcing
[00:39] <stgraber> did you specify 127.0.0.1:10000 (not the :10000 which is the ivsport of the client)
[00:39] <stgraber> s/not/note/
[00:40]  * stgraber is doing more and more typos ... looks like it's time to consider going to bed :)
[00:40] <seamus123> hmm I added a classroom with address of "127.0.0.1:10000"
[00:40] <seamus123> and then added a computer to the classroom with the same address
[00:41] <stgraber> ok, you could have called your classroom any other name, it doesn't matter. Though it's strange you don't see the client as it should be listening on :10000
[00:41] <stgraber> but as I said I haven't tried on Gutsy (7.10), maybe the fixes I did for Hardy (8.04) broke the VNC part for Gutsy (QT version change and funny things like that)
[00:43] <seamus123> $ ica -role teacher
[00:43] <seamus123> [warning] isdConnection::readFromServer(): connection failed: 0
[00:43] <seamus123> [warning] demoServer::updaterThread::run(): could not connect to local IVS!
[00:43] <seamus123> [warning] isdConnection::open(): unable to connect to server on client 127.0.0.1
[00:43] <seamus123> [warning] demoServer::updaterThread::run(): could not connect to local IVS!
[00:43] <seamus123> [warning] QProcess: Destroyed while process is still running.
[00:45] <stgraber> hmm, yes it looks like either some kind of safe guard (as it thinks you are going to enter a loop) or a bug in QT ...
[00:45] <seamus123> I think it could be weirdism with the VM IP's to be honest
[00:45] <seamus123> on the thin client I have two IP:
[00:46] <stgraber> it's something I'll have to investigate (as I have a test classroom using it on Gutsy), but hmm, it's bed time here :)
[00:46] <seamus123> 172.16.42.129.
[00:46] <seamus123> and 192.168.0.254
[00:46] <seamus123> when I enter both of those into italc as the client IP it only shows the master screen
[00:46] <seamus123> not the thin client
[00:47] <stgraber> and adding :10000 doesn't help I guess ? (without any specified port number, it means you own ica which then shows your own screen)
[00:50] <seamus123> http://asksanta.co.nz/italc.png
[00:51] <seamus123> ha! Just looked at your homepage - I was actually viewing this on the w/e when I was searching for Ubuntu teacher tools!
[00:52] <seamus123> and now I'm talkig to you! how v. cool
[00:52] <seamus123> I was actually trying to go to switzerland for 2008
[00:52] <seamus123> biut was dependent on my wife getting a job as a dentist there
[00:52] <seamus123> SSO.ch helped, but didn't eventuate in the end :()
[00:52] <seamus123> would have loved to have spent a year there!
[00:53] <stgraber> hmm, maybe just try to close italc and open it again
[00:53] <stgraber> in case it's one of those weird config thing I already had (their XML handler isn't so good actually)
[00:54] <seamus123> yeah same issue - restarted italc, sees the two comps (different IP) but both showing the master screen
[00:54] <seamus123> will put it down to the VM trickery
[00:54] <seamus123> shame, looks like a good app and I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it!
[00:55] <seamus123> YOu say it will be bundled in place of TCM in hardy?
[00:55] <stgraber> yes
[00:55] <seamus123> v.good!
[00:56] <stgraber> TCM is unmaintained since feisty (7.04) (Pete is lacking of time), so we preferred to choose an already existing tool and integrating it rather than writting our own
[00:56] <seamus123> understandable
[00:58] <pygi> forgive me, but what will be in instead of TCM?:P
[00:58] <pygi> (I didn't listen :P)
[00:59] <stgraber> italc
[00:59] <pygi> somebody inform me of what that is :)
[00:59] <stgraber> http://italc.sf.net
[00:59] <stgraber> an existing tool done in C++ and using QT, running on both Windows and Linux (MacOS is on the roadmap)
[01:00] <pygi> well, seems more mature then TCM for sure :p
[01:00] <stgraber> not hard :)
[01:00] <pygi> weird UI tho
[01:00] <pygi> yea, that's why I said it :p
[01:00] <stgraber> yes, that's a Windows-like UI done using QT ... ogra hates it and so do I :)
[01:01] <pygi> stgraber, fork and write new UI :p
[01:01] <stgraber> I'll try to make it a bit more Linux friendly :) (we already turned of some help balloons which were really annoying)
[01:01] <stgraber> hmm, I'm not good at QT neither am I at C++
[01:01] <pygi> you learn =)
[01:01] <stgraber> I'm more a python/gtk guy ...
[01:01] <seamus123> would it be possible to change the GUI to be more gnome like?
[01:01] <pygi> stgraber, split the backend part, bind it in python, and create pygtk interface =)
[01:02] <pygi> seamus123, just discussing :P
[01:02] <pygi> but in theory, hard
[01:02] <stgraber> well, that would mean moving from QT to GTK which isn't really easy
[01:02] <seamus123> ko
[01:02] <seamus123> ok
[01:02] <stgraber> and our goal was to patch an upstream release, but with patch <80% of the code :)
[01:02] <pygi> :P
[01:02] <stgraber> it's QT thing everywhere in his code, so that would mean a really massive rewrite
[01:03] <stgraber> he's moving some part of the code into a library, so maybe one day ...
[01:03] <pygi> this UI seems really bad :-/
[01:03] <pygi> it's like ... designed for a computer, instead of a user
[01:04] <stgraber> yes, and there are some funny bugs like huge UTF-8 misdetection (funny when you have First/Last name with special chars in them)
[01:04] <pygi> it's not QT that's problem IMHO ... UI itself is the problem ;P
[01:05] <stgraber> it's done for Windows users
[01:05] <seamus123> LOL
[01:05] <stgraber> and most Windows tools like italc have UI really similar to italc's
[01:05] <stgraber> (I have GenevaLogic's Vision or NetOP school in mind)
[01:06] <pygi> yup, saw NetOp
[01:06] <pygi> NetOp is nicer then this tho
[01:06] <pygi> stgraber, why dont you take over that tool we had?
[01:06] <stgraber> I'm spending 90% of my free time working on the Ubuntu QA website
[01:07] <pygi> ah, no idea what that is yet so ... :P
[01:07] <stgraber> so I have done a reworked version of TCM handling VNC in a better way, working with screenshots for preview and so on, but it's still the usual problem, we would need someone to work on that :)
[01:07] <stgraber> and using italc make integration in schools easier as some of them are already using it on Windows
[01:08] <pygi> and using italc makes users cry :P
[01:08] <stgraber> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org for instance, that's the ISO Testing tracker
[01:08] <pygi> ah, I know that, yes
[01:08] <pygi> nice work on that
[01:08] <stgraber> or http://iso.test.stgraber.org for the version I'm currently working on (with a uhm... huge todolist)
[01:09] <pygi> btw. django, turbogears, what?
[01:09] <stgraber> drupal
[01:11] <pygi> joy ;P
[01:11] <pygi> php :)
[01:11] <pygi> you can do such evil things out of php? :P
[01:11] <pygi> how? :)
[01:12] <pygi> ergh, I meant drupal
[01:12] <stgraber> yes, you can :)
[01:13] <stgraber> but it doesn't use much drupal functions except for the user management part :)
[01:13] <pygi> :P
[01:13] <pygi> thought so :)
[01:13]  * pygi wonders how easy would it be to do a rails/merb prototype of the same
[01:14] <pygi> not too hard if I had the template, I suck at css and stuff :P
[01:14] <stgraber> so do I, that's why we love the ubuntu-art guys and the official ubuntu theme :)
[01:15] <pygi> :D
[01:15] <pygi> stgraber, you know at least a tiny bit of ruby?
[01:15] <pygi> we could try to prototype new version there if your version is not ready :)
[01:16] <stgraber> well, the new version is to be released next week :) (should be on-line by the 10th)
[01:16] <pygi> we can do it in 3 days :P
[01:16] <pygi> so it's faster :p
[01:17] <pygi> (just a joke ... you're rocking ;))
[01:18] <stgraber> if I didn't have to do it in php at the first place, I would certainly have done it in python or eventually ruby (I don't know if Canonical's sysadmin like ruby but they surely hate php :))
[01:19] <pygi> why did you had to do it in php? :p
[01:19] <stgraber> because I was doing it at school while my classmates were studying php
[01:19] <pygi> :D :D :D :D :D
[01:20] <pygi> nice :P
[01:20] <pygi> well, once new release is out we can talk about porting to ruby :)
[01:20] <pygi> (or python, but I'm learning ruby now so it's more fun :P)
[01:21] <pygi> now time to go to sleep, I gotta get up in 3.5 hours
[01:21] <pygi> happy new year :)
[01:21] <stgraber> hehe, so do I ... CET time ..
[01:21] <stgraber> happy new year to you to
[01:21] <pygi> yup xD
[01:21] <pygi> 2:21AM :p
[01:21] <stgraber> yeah
[01:22] <pygi> haha :D
[01:22] <seamus123> well, new's year is only 10hrs away for me!
[01:22] <pygi> good night :)
[01:22] <seamus123> NZST!
[01:22] <pygi> seamus123, go party :P
[01:22] <seamus123> you too - enjoy
[01:22] <pygi> or write us a new tool supported on all major platforms :p
[01:22]  * pygi is out
[01:22] <stgraber> :)
[01:23]  * stgraber too
[01:23] <seamus123> thanks again for your help
[17:22] <subopt> Where can i find the detailed package listings for edubuntu?