[00:00] http://www.disklessthinclients.com/secure/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=51 [00:00] indeed, I saw some thin clients at interesting price on ebay [00:01] I guess still quite expensive compared with buying a full on dell or equivalent low end system [00:01] HedgeMage ! [00:02] just make sure to ask on #ltsp before making any thin clients order, there are people with great experience of thin clients hardware who will be able to tell you if it's a good idea or not to buy a specific thin client [00:02] Thanks for tthe tip stgraber [00:02] appreciated [00:06] ~$ apt-cache search italc [00:06] italc-client - Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers [00:06] italc-master - Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers [00:06] in the repos already>? [00:06] stable? [00:06] it's a buddy 1.0.2 I guess [00:06] *buggy [00:07] crashing as soon as you try to start a VNC connection [00:07] ahh the aforementioned bug you're ironing out ;) [00:07] are you running gutsy i386 or amd64 ? [00:08] nope, mine is just in the demo mode, other VNC interactions (viewing and taking control) work fine here [00:08] running 7.10 (downloaded this morning) in VM ware on 1386 [00:09] ok, so building an italc 1.0.4 for gutsy i386 now, will take like 10minutes [00:09] this one should work without any crash except if you try to enter "demo" mode, viewing screen, taking control, locking, logging out, .. everything else should work fine [00:09] hmm ok [00:10] so from a client perspective it should be fine i.e. my thin client boots over PXE as it does now, but I'd use iTalc instead of TCM to manage it? [00:10] yes [00:11] italc doesn't require x11vnc, so you wouldn't have to change the chroot if using italc [00:11] ok [00:11] installing now [00:11] where/why would you install the client component ? [00:12] italc is made of two part : ica which is the client part must run on both the clients (students in my case) and on the master (teacher in my case) [00:12] then "italc" itself is the tacher part and is run only on the teacher computer [00:12] access is restricted by unix groups (you have public and private keys, the one who can read the private keys is the teacher) [00:13] so you basically run "ica" by default for everyone, then only the teacher (admin group) can run italc and connect to the clients [00:13] running italc from the command line after installing gave me all the errors about no student comps online and no keys generated either [00:13] so looks like time for me to dive into the online manual! [00:14] yes, gutsy's package isn't that good :) [00:14] my package generates the keys at installation time [00:14] available on a daily snapshot anywhere? [00:14] I'm uploading a gutsy i386 package just now [00:15] ah [00:15] http://www.stgraber.org/download/italc-gutsy/ [00:16] I haven't tested them, they finished building 30s ago and I no longer have gutsy computers except my servers [00:23] installing now [00:24] LOL it kindly advised me to install the old version from the repos ;) === pauljw is now known as Wiley [00:25] you should install them in that order : libitalc, italc-client, italc-master [00:25] or : sudo dpkg -i *.deb && sudo apt-get -f install [00:25] which will solve the various dependency issues (installing missing packages if any) [00:26] yeah got round that, all installed [00:26] if you run : ica -role teacher [00:26] and then : italc [00:26] you should have the teacher UI === Wiley is now known as pauljw [00:27] hmm ran that command but nothing happened [00:28] ica -role teach is some kind of daemon so will only stop when it crashes [00:28] s/teach/teacher/ [00:28] so just start this one in a console and open another to run : italc [00:29] ok [00:29] Ahh there's the QT goodness ;) LOL [00:30] Reminds me (lovingly) of Amarok! [00:30] you can run : "ica -noshm -ivsport 10000 -isdport 11000" on the client [00:30] so I need these three packages also installed on my thin client right? (well perhaps not the master one) [00:31] then create a classroom and add a new client with : 127.0.0.1:10000 as address [00:31] ah - you pre-empted me [00:31] nope, you just need them on the server, nothing to install in the chroot [00:32] as the gnome session you see on the client is the gnome installed on the server, only low-level things are installed in the chroot (initscripts, some system binaries and X basically) [00:33] sorry, ica -noshm -ivsport 10000 -isdport 11000 needs to be run on the server right, not the thin client? [00:33] thinclient didn't recognise the ica command when I attempted it [00:33] try opening a gnome-terminal on the thin client (virtual in your case) and run the ica thing, it should work [00:34] Hmm that's what I did [00:34] got this: [00:34] Unrecognised commmandline-argument -sdport [00:34] ahh typo!! [00:34] my bad [00:34] :) [00:35] ok ran that anda dded the classroom on the same address in classroom manager [00:36] I've added the classroom [00:36] do I manually need to add the computer? [00:36] or should it be able to see it? [00:36] yes [00:37] you have to add it by hand, address = 127.0.0.1:10000 [00:37] I have some scripts here that generates the config file automatically but that's for the next version of the package [00:38] ok - added, but it says host unreachable [00:38] hmm [00:38] actually it's seeing itself again [00:38] perhaps I entered the wrong IP for thinclient [00:38] double chekcing [00:39] did you specify 127.0.0.1:10000 (not the :10000 which is the ivsport of the client) [00:39] s/not/note/ [00:40] * stgraber is doing more and more typos ... looks like it's time to consider going to bed :) [00:40] hmm I added a classroom with address of "127.0.0.1:10000" [00:40] and then added a computer to the classroom with the same address [00:41] ok, you could have called your classroom any other name, it doesn't matter. Though it's strange you don't see the client as it should be listening on :10000 [00:41] but as I said I haven't tried on Gutsy (7.10), maybe the fixes I did for Hardy (8.04) broke the VNC part for Gutsy (QT version change and funny things like that) [00:43] $ ica -role teacher [00:43] [warning] isdConnection::readFromServer(): connection failed: 0 [00:43] [warning] demoServer::updaterThread::run(): could not connect to local IVS! [00:43] [warning] isdConnection::open(): unable to connect to server on client 127.0.0.1 [00:43] [warning] demoServer::updaterThread::run(): could not connect to local IVS! [00:43] [warning] QProcess: Destroyed while process is still running. [00:45] hmm, yes it looks like either some kind of safe guard (as it thinks you are going to enter a loop) or a bug in QT ... [00:45] I think it could be weirdism with the VM IP's to be honest [00:45] on the thin client I have two IP: [00:46] it's something I'll have to investigate (as I have a test classroom using it on Gutsy), but hmm, it's bed time here :) [00:46] 172.16.42.129. [00:46] and 192.168.0.254 [00:46] when I enter both of those into italc as the client IP it only shows the master screen [00:46] not the thin client [00:47] and adding :10000 doesn't help I guess ? (without any specified port number, it means you own ica which then shows your own screen) [00:50] http://asksanta.co.nz/italc.png [00:51] ha! Just looked at your homepage - I was actually viewing this on the w/e when I was searching for Ubuntu teacher tools! [00:52] and now I'm talkig to you! how v. cool [00:52] I was actually trying to go to switzerland for 2008 [00:52] biut was dependent on my wife getting a job as a dentist there [00:52] SSO.ch helped, but didn't eventuate in the end :() [00:52] would have loved to have spent a year there! [00:53] hmm, maybe just try to close italc and open it again [00:53] in case it's one of those weird config thing I already had (their XML handler isn't so good actually) [00:54] yeah same issue - restarted italc, sees the two comps (different IP) but both showing the master screen [00:54] will put it down to the VM trickery [00:54] shame, looks like a good app and I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it! [00:55] YOu say it will be bundled in place of TCM in hardy? [00:55] yes [00:55] v.good! [00:56] TCM is unmaintained since feisty (7.04) (Pete is lacking of time), so we preferred to choose an already existing tool and integrating it rather than writting our own [00:56] understandable [00:58] forgive me, but what will be in instead of TCM?:P [00:58] (I didn't listen :P) [00:59] italc [00:59] somebody inform me of what that is :) [00:59] http://italc.sf.net [00:59] an existing tool done in C++ and using QT, running on both Windows and Linux (MacOS is on the roadmap) [01:00] well, seems more mature then TCM for sure :p [01:00] not hard :) [01:00] weird UI tho [01:00] yea, that's why I said it :p [01:00] yes, that's a Windows-like UI done using QT ... ogra hates it and so do I :) [01:01] stgraber, fork and write new UI :p [01:01] I'll try to make it a bit more Linux friendly :) (we already turned of some help balloons which were really annoying) [01:01] hmm, I'm not good at QT neither am I at C++ [01:01] you learn =) [01:01] I'm more a python/gtk guy ... [01:01] would it be possible to change the GUI to be more gnome like? [01:01] stgraber, split the backend part, bind it in python, and create pygtk interface =) [01:02] seamus123, just discussing :P [01:02] but in theory, hard [01:02] well, that would mean moving from QT to GTK which isn't really easy [01:02] ko [01:02] ok [01:02] and our goal was to patch an upstream release, but with patch <80% of the code :) [01:02] :P [01:02] it's QT thing everywhere in his code, so that would mean a really massive rewrite [01:03] he's moving some part of the code into a library, so maybe one day ... [01:03] this UI seems really bad :-/ [01:03] it's like ... designed for a computer, instead of a user [01:04] yes, and there are some funny bugs like huge UTF-8 misdetection (funny when you have First/Last name with special chars in them) [01:04] it's not QT that's problem IMHO ... UI itself is the problem ;P [01:05] it's done for Windows users [01:05] LOL [01:05] and most Windows tools like italc have UI really similar to italc's [01:05] (I have GenevaLogic's Vision or NetOP school in mind) [01:06] yup, saw NetOp [01:06] NetOp is nicer then this tho [01:06] stgraber, why dont you take over that tool we had? [01:06] I'm spending 90% of my free time working on the Ubuntu QA website [01:07] ah, no idea what that is yet so ... :P [01:07] so I have done a reworked version of TCM handling VNC in a better way, working with screenshots for preview and so on, but it's still the usual problem, we would need someone to work on that :) [01:07] and using italc make integration in schools easier as some of them are already using it on Windows [01:08] and using italc makes users cry :P [01:08] https://iso.qa.stgraber.org for instance, that's the ISO Testing tracker [01:08] ah, I know that, yes [01:08] nice work on that [01:08] or http://iso.test.stgraber.org for the version I'm currently working on (with a uhm... huge todolist) [01:09] btw. django, turbogears, what? [01:09] drupal [01:11] joy ;P [01:11] php :) [01:11] you can do such evil things out of php? :P [01:11] how? :) [01:12] ergh, I meant drupal [01:12] yes, you can :) [01:13] but it doesn't use much drupal functions except for the user management part :) [01:13] :P [01:13] thought so :) [01:13] * pygi wonders how easy would it be to do a rails/merb prototype of the same [01:14] not too hard if I had the template, I suck at css and stuff :P [01:14] so do I, that's why we love the ubuntu-art guys and the official ubuntu theme :) [01:15] :D [01:15] stgraber, you know at least a tiny bit of ruby? [01:15] we could try to prototype new version there if your version is not ready :) [01:16] well, the new version is to be released next week :) (should be on-line by the 10th) [01:16] we can do it in 3 days :P [01:16] so it's faster :p [01:17] (just a joke ... you're rocking ;)) [01:18] if I didn't have to do it in php at the first place, I would certainly have done it in python or eventually ruby (I don't know if Canonical's sysadmin like ruby but they surely hate php :)) [01:19] why did you had to do it in php? :p [01:19] because I was doing it at school while my classmates were studying php [01:19] :D :D :D :D :D [01:20] nice :P [01:20] well, once new release is out we can talk about porting to ruby :) [01:20] (or python, but I'm learning ruby now so it's more fun :P) [01:21] now time to go to sleep, I gotta get up in 3.5 hours [01:21] happy new year :) [01:21] hehe, so do I ... CET time .. [01:21] happy new year to you to [01:21] yup xD [01:21] 2:21AM :p [01:21] yeah [01:22] haha :D [01:22] well, new's year is only 10hrs away for me! [01:22] good night :) [01:22] NZST! [01:22] seamus123, go party :P [01:22] you too - enjoy [01:22] or write us a new tool supported on all major platforms :p [01:22] * pygi is out [01:22] :) [01:23] * stgraber too [01:23] thanks again for your help [17:22] Where can i find the detailed package listings for edubuntu? === paulj1 is now known as pauljw