[00:00] <yuriy> CheGuevara: possibly, but certainly not for hardy
[00:00] <Jucato> mhb: I vote the other way around... or rather in another way :)
[00:00] <CheGuevara> well yeah
[00:00] <mhb> Jucato: why so?
[00:00] <mhb> Jucato: one of my many reflections on the current package management is that for advanced uses, apt-get is the superior solution
[00:01] <MaximLevitsky> No, I don't agree (Athough I am not a very advanced user, but...)
[00:01] <nosrednaekim> eh?adept in qt4?
[00:01] <MaximLevitsky> I can search in package manager
[00:01] <mhb> Jucato: we just need a tool that a) the most basic user can use to install Firefox b) the power user can use to install/remove any package in the system
[00:01] <Jucato> mhb: I've always disagreed with the Manager-Installer split. And I'm not fond of the fact that Installer uses app-install database, which only contains a handful of packages, so you can't see all the available packages
[00:02] <MaximLevitsky> I usially use synaptic
[00:02] <yuriy> mhb: how do i run something as root under gdb? would i have to sudo gdb?
[00:02] <mhb> yuriy: I assume so.
[00:02] <Jucato> mhb: what I'm getting at is why we just couldn't improve Adept to be both feature-full (manager) and still simple to use and purty (installer)
[00:02]  * yuriy $man fakeroot
[00:03] <MaximLevitsky> Using package manager it is possible to see whole category of packages, and search for a set of packages. For installing a single paackage I always use apt-get
[00:03] <Jucato> hm... 2nd day of the year and we're back to work already? :P
[00:04] <mhb> Jucato: because it's not really feasible.
[00:04] <mhb> Jucato: compare the installer with the manager
[00:04] <nosrednaekim> wow yuriy!nice!
[00:04] <Jucato> mhb: which part isn't feasible?
[00:05] <mhb> Jucato: well, we can have a compromise, but either it won't be as user-friendly as the current installer is or it will lack the "drop tags here" functionality manager has
[00:06] <MaximLevitsky> I vote to remove the tags
[00:06] <mhb> I do, too.
[00:06] <Jucato> mhb: I'm not a fan of the debtags (yet), so I really don't care much about it.. although I can't understand why it couldn't be turned into a feature that can be disabled/enabled (disabled by default)
[00:06] <nosrednaekim> who uses tags?
[00:06] <MaximLevitsky> I would like to see more advanced search
[00:06] <yuriy> tags seem useful but i've never actually used them
[00:07] <Jucato> theoretically they are useful... but the way they are presented/used in adept manager isn't :D
[00:07] <mhb> what I think is that nobody besides system administrators ever used them
[00:07] <mhb> and system administrators always stick to command line
[00:07] <mhb> so I see it as a feature without a target base
[00:07] <mhb> == bloat
[00:07] <Jucato> the thing is, they can be useful, even for normal users, (remember everyone knows about tags because of blogs and stuff). but the interface for them is quite horrid...
[00:08] <MaximLevitsky> If it was possible to tag a package...
[00:08] <mhb> I've never used anything else besides keyword searching.
[00:08] <yuriy> draw up a new one ;)
[00:08] <Jucato> tags would be the rough, but more powerful, equivalent of Synaptic's catgoeries
[00:08] <Jucato> categories*
[00:09] <Jucato> (or Adept Installer's)
[00:09] <Jucato> yuriy: the best interface I can think of would be a checkbox list...
[00:09] <MaximLevitsky> Exactly
[00:09] <yuriy> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/AdeptUsability
[00:09] <mhb> I find Adept Installer's categories quite okay usability-wise.
[00:09] <mhb> just the page
[00:09] <Jucato> mhb: their fine. no problems there. but we were discussing Manager's tags :)
[00:10] <Jucato> s/their/they're/
[00:10] <mhb> okay then. I guess I better stay quiet because I don't think Manager should stay.
[00:10] <yuriy> the wiki page lists some good ideas that sound feasible
[00:11] <yuriy> but it also sounds a bit like the installer
[00:11] <yuriy> most of the pictures are gone now unfortunately
[00:11]  * Jucato is of the opinion that the two should be merged anyway... except for the annoying (imho) fact that installer uses a separate app database...
[00:11] <mhb> Jucato: yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.
[00:12] <mhb> Jucato: I wonder whether a checkbox "System packages" which would let Installer display all the possible packages would be the solution
[00:12] <Jucato> MaximLevitsky: I'm imagining that maybe one day, users can append tags and descriptions on packages. metadata stuff...
[00:13] <Jucato> mhb: that could work, except that the database doesn't contain those packages :)
[00:13] <mhb> yes, bad.
[00:13] <mhb> I'm of the opinion port installer first, paint bike shed later.
[00:14] <Jucato> I vote port manager first, because it has the most code that is reused (a.k.a. copy-pasted) among the other adepts... which would make it easier to port the others too :P
[00:14] <Jucato> (presuming we'll go the copy-paste route again :D)
[00:15]  * Jucato prays we will be able to change the class names and filenames too...
[00:15] <mhb> I'm sure we will be.
[00:15] <mhb> yuriy is actually going the right way
[00:16] <mhb> first port without rewriting, then rewrite (and keep it working)
[00:16] <Jucato> seeing a file named app.cpp, with an object called "ta", which is an object of a  class called "TestApp", which is derived from the main class called "Application", is just....
[00:16] <nosrednaekim> what you go to college to learn to keep track of..
[00:16] <nosrednaekim> ;)
[00:17] <Jucato> yuriy: you just made it to my personal hall of fame btw :)
[00:19] <yuriy> Jucato: the reused code is all in libadept. it's actually organized pretty well, the only thing that's in manager is defining the toolbars and which views should show up
[00:19] <yuriy> OTOH, "installerview" is also part of libadept...
[00:19] <Jucato> yuriy: so it uses libadept/ and not adept/ ?
[00:20] <yuriy> Jucato: well, it uses adept/ to build libadept, i'm not sure what libadept/ was supposed to be
[00:20] <Jucato> yuriy: it's not libadept really that kinda burns my eyes, it's the apps that use it. although class TestApp is in libadept/application.h :D
[00:22] <mhb> Jucato: TestApp is the child of Application
[00:22] <mhb> Jucato: and it's used in manager
[00:22] <mhb> adept/manager/app.cpp
[00:22] <Jucato> mhb: I did say that :)
[00:23] <mhb> Jucato: no, you didn't : lthough class TestApp is in libadept/application.h :D
[00:23] <Jucato> oh sorry. I meant Application :)
[00:23] <Jucato> but I did say that TestApp is derived from Application earlier
[00:23] <mhb> I still think TestApp (manager) should kick the bucket
[00:24] <mhb> but let's paint after more yuriy-awesomeness
[00:24] <Jucato> in adept installer, the main class is called "App", also derived from class Application :D
[00:25]  * Jucato sighs...
[00:25] <yuriy> mhb: stuck on the deadlock right now
[00:25] <Jucato> why can't  I seem to get myself to be as dedicated as yuriy is with Adept? :P
[00:25] <yuriy> Jucato: because i'm procrastinating
[00:25] <nosrednaekim> for goodness sakes, whaever you take out or put in... make sure Adept can lock versions of packages.
[00:26] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: I'd say mhb might suggest that you use apt-get instead :)
[00:26] <nosrednaekim> nah...synaptic works fine ;)
[00:26] <Jucato> no offense, but I think for mhb, power users *should* only use the command line... we don't deserve to have poweful GUI's :D
[00:27] <Jucato> hm.. breakfast sounds about nice right now...
[00:27] <mhb> I'm having one now
[00:27] <mhb> 01:27 am
[00:28] <Jucato> Wed Jan  2 08:28:04 PHT 2008
[00:28] <Jucato> :D
[00:28] <CheGuevara> lol
[00:28] <mhb> nosrednaekim: frankly, I don't even know what that is :o)
[00:30] <mhb> nosrednaekim: some people would like to have it all - a simple, fast application that can do everything, is simple enough for the most basic of users and it still could do every crazy thing one would desire, like searching for all ham-radio packages changed in the last 12.5 minutes starting with "spam"
[00:30] <nosrednaekim> and they can.... its called the command line ;)
[00:31] <CheGuevara> lol
[00:32] <mhb> nosrednaekim: my compromise suggestion is having one package manager application with which you can install Mozilla Firefox or Pidgin really easily, and if you did a few clicks, you could remove or install any package in the repository.
[00:33] <mhb> on the other hand, if you wanted to do something fairly advanced, like a complex search, you should try the apt-get frontend instead, because it offers far more options and possibilites than any fast and usable GUI app can ever provide.
[00:35] <mhb> one package manager application instead of two makes more sense, because people now don't know which app should they use - they use Adept Manager because the HOWTO advised them to, but they're confused by it as its UI is too complex for them.
[00:36] <nosrednaekim> yeah..
[00:36] <nosrednaekim> too bad you just couldn't click and "advanced" button
[00:37] <mhb> nosrednaekim: that's the way I'd go for. Except I'd remove most of the current Adept tagginess, so that only one or two widgets appear with the click of that button
[00:38] <mhb> so the UI doesn't get too messy.
[00:38] <mhb> argh! /me bikeshedding again
[00:38] <nosrednaekim> heh
[00:39] <mhb> yuriy: once you get off the awesomeness train, you could write a blog post about what steps are most common when you ported the adept manager
[00:39] <mhb> yuriy: so other people like me have less "hacktivation energy"
[00:39] <mhb> thanks!
[00:39] <yuriy> mhb: i'll try
[00:40] <mhb> yuriy: you don't have to, it's just one of Adept's flaws that it is badly documented, so the more insight outsiders (like me) get, the better
[00:40] <mhb> it was my very humble suggestion
[00:40] <yuriy> hmm yeah
[00:41]  * yuriy has been meaning to comment on code when he figures out what it does, but hasn't
[00:41] <yuriy> think you could help with this deadlock problem?
[00:41] <DaSkreech> I WANT TAGS!!!
[00:42] <mhb> yuriy: sure, better than learning linear algebra
[00:45] <mhb> yuriy: what's the deadlock you talk about?
[00:46]  * DaSkreech goes home and will be back to blont :-)
[00:46] <yuriy> mhb: if you run adept_manager as root (sudo or fakeroot) it just says deadlock detected...
[00:46] <yuriy> won't print out any debug messages or anything
[00:49] <mhb> yuriy: I am afraid I can't reproduce it
[00:49] <mhb> no deadlock at all, it simply starts like it did with the normal user
[00:50] <mhb> and a lot of debug messages, too
[00:50] <mhb> (using sudo)
[00:50] <yuriy> hmm
[00:51] <yuriy> mhb: what system? i have a dual core so i think it's more likely to see problems
[00:51] <mhb> C2D
[00:51] <yuriy> hmm
[00:51] <mhb> amd64.
[00:57] <yuriy> mhb: hardy or gutsy?
[00:57] <mhb> hardy
[00:57]  * yuriy should upgrade
[00:58] <mhb> if you stumble upon anything I can test, let me know.
[00:58] <yuriy> since that works for you i think i'll go on to other parts for now
[00:59] <mhb> okies
[01:01] <CheGuevara> bug 174252
[01:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174252 in libungif4 "transition to libgif" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174252
[01:23] <dasKreech> Right then
[01:23] <dasKreech> what did I miss
[01:24] <dasKreech> I want tags
[01:24] <dasKreech> don't care if they are behind an advanced option view
[01:24] <dasKreech> I live by tags
[01:25] <Jucato> mhb: by apt-get frontend, you mean the command line right? as in apt-get?
[01:26] <dasKreech> Ha ha
[01:26] <dasKreech> Yeah he means dpkg front end
[01:26]  * Jucato will not try to feel a bit.. um... nvm...
[01:27] <dasKreech> Hey
[01:27] <dasKreech> no feeling of bits around here!
[01:27]  * Jucato will not try to feel a kilobyte... um.. nvm...
[01:27]  * dasKreech laughs
[01:28] <dasKreech> Man I wish you guys could work at my workplace
[01:28] <dasKreech> You'd fit right in
[01:29] <mhb> Jucato: I do.
[01:30] <Jucato> ok...
[01:30]  * Jucato reserves the right to keep quiet now :)
[01:32] <dasKreech> damn I wanted that right
[01:32] <dasKreech> Guess I'll just have to blather :)
[01:32] <dasKreech> spam spam spam spam spam spam Spanish inquisition
[01:32] <dasKreech> Didn't expect that did ya?
[01:35] <dasKreech> So in any case the tags thing is far cooler than categories, is more comprehensive is easier to work wit hand requires no maintenance
[01:35] <dasKreech> So I very much vote for tags
[01:40] <yuriy> dasKreech: but what do you think of adept manager's interface for it
[01:41] <dasKreech> dunno It's very simple to use but not intuitive to figure out
[01:41] <jjesse_> evening
[01:41] <dasKreech> hi jjesse_
[01:41] <Jucato> hi jjesse_!
[01:41] <dasKreech> I'm basically stubborn so I played with it cause it took up so much space I figured I better use it
[01:41] <jjesse_> hello jussi01
[01:41] <jjesse_> doh
[01:41] <Jucato> :P
[01:41] <jjesse_> hello Jucato
[01:42]  * Jucato has to put jussi01 on his highlight list now.. just to check for misdirected highlights...
[01:42] <dasKreech> I love it now if you wanted one reason from me why adept beats the skirt off of synaptic debtags would be it
[01:42]  * dasKreech talks to jussi01 a lot now
[01:42] <CheGuevara> hi jjesse_
[01:43] <yuriy> dasKreech: i was thinking maybe have a column of filters, with 3 columns for want/do not want/don't care that you could check off, all defaulting to don't care
[01:44] <dasKreech> yuriy: that would be a script?
[01:44] <dasKreech> I guess. the same tree look?
[01:44] <dasKreech> cause there are a lot of debtags
[01:44] <yuriy> i guess it would be a tree
[01:44] <yuriy> script?
[01:45] <dasKreech> Well it pulls the debtags at runtime doens't it? what ever debtags are in the repo it shows
[01:45]  * Jucato still votes for a checkbox list... which could be disabled/enabled when wanted, or all defaulting to checked...
[01:45]  * Jucato realizes he promised to shutup...
[01:45] <Jucato> dasKreech: each package has a debtag afaik
[01:46] <dasKreech> Jucato: I know and adept pulls the debtags from the cloud in the repo right?
[01:46] <dasKreech> Jucato: debtags
[01:46] <Jucato> haven't seen the code for the debtags :)
[01:46] <dasKreech> reason one it beats categories :)
[01:46] <dasKreech> me too I tried to grok it
[01:46] <dasKreech> no go for me
[01:47] <yuriy> Jucato: that's kind of what i mean, but a simple checklist isn't quite as powerful
[01:47] <dasKreech> didn't have enough time
[01:47] <dasKreech> yuriy: what would we lose?
[01:47] <yuriy> do i understand it correctly? a package can have several tags?
[01:47] <Jucato> yuriy: what do you mean by not as powerful?
[01:47] <Jucato> (oh and not sure... again.. for a very poweful package format... apt/dpkg sure doesn't have much docs floating around...)
[01:48] <Jucato> developer docs I mean
[01:48] <yuriy> well with the current interface you can have a tag that you want, and a tag that you don't want that'll remove from teh list of packages even if it has the tag that you want?
[01:48] <jjesse_> interseting everytime i go to update or install i get a segmentation fault
[01:49] <dasKreech> yuriy: right
[01:49] <dasKreech> so I can say I want graphics programs and  don't want gtk programs and I will get all grpahics programs that are not made in gtk
[01:49]  * dasKreech laughs
[01:49] <yuriy> so if you just have a checkbox that is either checked or not, you lose the ability to not care about a tag
[01:49] <dasKreech> So I click on this link which opens a streaming video in winamp
[01:50] <dasKreech> I'm watching then I realise that Vista is trying to get my attention
[01:50] <dasKreech> I click on it and it says Winamp is trying to access the internet and we have blocked it would you like us to unblock it?
[01:50] <Jucato> can't you just uncheck the [ ]gtk tag and it will remove all gtk tagged packages?
[01:50]  * dasKreech glances over at streaming video
[01:50] <dasKreech> Ummm sure Vista. I'll allow it
[01:51] <dasKreech> yuriy: I thought that you wanted checkboxes for each tag
[01:51] <Jucato> I did :)
[01:51] <yuriy> Jucato: think about it this way: if you have graphics and gtk checked, are you looking for the intersection or the union?
[01:51] <yuriy> dasKreech: i did
[01:52] <Jucato> yuriy: I guess it will really depend if each package has multiple tags right? :)
[01:52] <yuriy> Jucato: well i assumed they did. do they?
[01:52] <Jucato> (which, imho, it should... otherwise it sort of defeats the tagging idea...)
[01:52] <yuriy> exactly
[01:52] <dasKreech> Right so you would check I want it on Graphics tag. Browse to gtk tag and click I don't want it
[01:52] <jjesse_> quick question, i'm getting a seg fault everytime i use apt or aptitude any help?
[01:52] <yuriy> dasKreech: so you need 3 options including the starting option of "i don't care"
[01:53] <dasKreech> yuriy: I thought that's what you said
[01:53] <Jucato> jjesse_: from the command line? that's an ouch... :(
[01:53] <jjesse_> yeah Jucato from the command line
[01:53] <Jucato> yuriy: 3 options?
[01:53] <yuriy> dasKreech: yeah but i'm just saying a simple checkbox won't do it
[01:54] <Jucato> yuriy: if, and only if, each package can have multiple tags, then a checkbox list would do... (although it would be a long list)...
[01:54] <Jucato> if not, I guess we can settle for the current debtag setup, hidden/disabled by default, and with better documentation on how to use :P
[01:54] <dasKreech> yuriy: I'd suggest radio buttons
[01:55] <Jucato> wth? that's worse...
[01:55] <yuriy> dasKreech: yep that's what i was thinking, but still some details with that to iron out, plus it's pretty messy so i don't know..
[01:55] <dasKreech> the problem I have with checkboxes/radio is that you don't get the implied I don't want it effect
[01:55] <Jucato> er.. dpeends on what you mean and where I guess
[01:55] <yuriy> anyhoo, getting ahead of ourselves
[01:55] <CheGuevara> heh
[01:55] <Jucato> I don't want = unchecked, I want = checked
[01:56] <dasKreech> Jucato: what's the default state?
[01:57] <Jucato> we can either: 1) have them all checked, which displays all packages (that's what we want as default right?) 2) or a disabled state, which doesn't activate the debtag filters at all
[01:58] <dasKreech> Jucato: So assuming we aren't right a tutorial for all of this how does someone go from all checked to saying I want to see all the games?
[01:59] <yuriy> for now, a slightly prettier picture: http://www.yktech.us/temp/adeptqt4a.png
[01:59] <Jucato> dasKreech: then I'd go for my option 2, which will toggle using debtags on or off
[02:00] <Jucato> yuriy: yay! (?) :D
[02:00] <yuriy> Jucato: the toolbar works now
[02:00] <dasKreech> Jucato: I don't get that one either :)
[02:00] <Jucato> yuriy: cool! :)
[02:00] <Jucato> dasKreech: nvm then :)
[02:00] <jjesse_> yuriy are you working on adept then?
[02:01] <Jucato> I'll just think of another thing
[02:01] <jjesse_> i'm wokring on  the guide right now
[02:01] <Jucato> or keep quiet finally
[02:01] <Jucato> jjesse_: porting to kde4 actually
[02:01] <Jucato> he's
[02:01] <Jucato> which shouldn't affect our kde3 guide for it. you go jjesse_! :)
[02:01] <jjesse_> Jucato: awsesome, have you read the adept for technical content lately?
[02:01] <Jucato> you're tha man!
[02:01] <dasKreech> Jucato: no walk me through the defaults and how you select a single category for inclusion
[02:01] <Jucato> jjesse_: just got back from vacation :)
[02:01] <Jucato> dasKreech: actually haven't thoought about that much yet
[02:01] <jjesse_> Jucato: cool
[02:02] <dasKreech> ok then keep quiet and think about ;-)
[02:03] <Jucato>  nah... I won't :P
[02:04] <dasKreech> (Crowds chant) Blont blont blont blont!
[02:04] <dasKreech> Jeer Ri Jeer Ri Jeer Ri Jeer Ri!
[02:05] <Jucato> hm.. I can't even find out how to dispaly a package's debtags!
[02:05] <Jucato> in the command line
[02:06] <jjesse_> nothing is more fun then writing documentation in nano via terminal
[02:07] <dasKreech> jjesse_: Writing in ed ?
[02:07] <jjesse_> nano
[02:07] <dasKreech> no I'm suggesting that ed would be moer fun
[02:07] <jjesse_> ah
[02:07] <mhb> vim
[02:08] <Jucato> vim
[02:08] <mhb> good night folks
[02:09] <Jucato> yuriy: it seems like packages can have more than 1 tag. yakuake shows up in both "debtags search x11::terminal" and "debtags search suite::kde"
[02:09] <dasKreech> as it should
[02:09] <dasKreech> I think it might in synaptic's categories as well
[02:10] <dasKreech> but you can' do inverse searches in synaptic
[02:10] <dasKreech> so it therefore sucks
[02:10] <yuriy> there do seem to be too many tags for a single list though
[02:10] <dasKreech> yuriy: Just browse through the ones that adept has under the All tab
[02:10] <dasKreech> The smart tab is pretty nice but the All tab is where learning goes on
[02:11] <yuriy> well that's what i mean, there are too many tags for a simple practical interface
[02:11] <Jucato> ok I give up :)
[02:11] <yuriy> having the 3 tabs like adept does seems overly complex
[02:12] <Jucato> option 3: put all debtag UI into a single place (not 2 separate places as it is now... if possible), hide it by default, then write a doc for it :)
[02:12] <dasKreech> yuriy: Why?
[02:12] <dasKreech> The smart tags are pretty neat
[02:13] <dasKreech> not always accurate but it cuts out a lot of clutter while stepping logically down a chain
[02:13] <dasKreech> Jucato: It's in 2 places now?
[02:13] <Jucato> dasKreech: the tag drop areas are in the middle/top, the tag list is on the right
[02:14] <Jucato> (right of the package list)
[02:14] <dasKreech> Jucato: ah I guess
[02:14] <Jucato> so for one, it's not overly intuitive that they are related to each other
[02:18] <yuriy> Jucato: yeah putting it all in one place is definitely needed
[02:19] <Jucato> yuriy: I really admire your endurance and determination in this :)
[02:19]  * Jucato just took a few peeks at adept's code and practically gave up in frustration :P
[02:19] <Jucato> although what I would have probably wanted to do is start from scratch.. but didn't have enough APT-innards-knowledge...
[02:21] <Jucato> jjesse_: ping?
[02:23] <Jucato> jjesse_: unping... :)
[02:28] <dasKreech> does iMCP allow that?
[02:29] <dasKreech> Hmm google seems pretty Gnome heavy though they seem to prefer KDE stuff for SOC
[02:35] <dasKreech> So just to check most people's biggest issue with Adept is tags?
[02:44] <claydoh> tags, I ignore. I think the refresh speed  when searching, especially the search-as-you type can be awkward at times on my slower box
[02:44] <claydoh> thats my biggest issue
[02:45] <claydoh> having said that I haven't even installed synaptic, and I used to be a big huge fan of it
[02:46] <claydoh> in kubuntuforums, the biggest thing I see is the error messges that are rather cryptic for the new users
[02:46] <dasKreech> Example?
[02:46]  * claydoh lools....
[02:47] <dasKreech> laughs outrageously out loud ?
[02:48]  * claydoh drools while he looks?
[02:48] <claydoh> http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3089993.0;topicseen
[02:48] <claydoh> is a recent one, often seen, tho synaptic isn't really better on that one
[02:49] <dasKreech> claydoh: What's the fix to that one?
[02:51] <dasKreech> Hobbsee!!
[02:51] <claydoh> http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3088656.0
[02:51] <dasKreech> How's the brown?
[02:51] <claydoh> is another
[02:52] <claydoh> dasKreech: use apt is usually the answer
[02:52] <claydoh> to see the better error message
[02:53] <dasKreech> claydoh: Far as I know there is the dpkg --configure -a and dpkg -f install routines
[02:53] <Hobbsee> heya!
[02:53] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: brown?  what brown?
[02:53] <dasKreech> COuld give them a button that does that
[02:53] <dasKreech> Hobbsee: Gnome?
[02:54] <claydoh> but as I say, as a former synaptic fanboi, I now only use adept for my gui package management as the problems are so few
[02:54] <dasKreech> claydoh: Well for that one I think that we need to find out why Adept crashes and stop it doing that
[02:54] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: http://wedontsleep.org/~sarah/Screenshot.jpg - where's the brown?
[02:54]  * dasKreech laughs at Hobbsee's URL
[02:55] <Hobbsee> it's not my server :O)
[02:55] <dasKreech> So why so blue?
[02:55] <Hobbsee> i like the picture?
[02:55] <dasKreech> How did you upload it that fast?
[02:56] <Hobbsee> it's from a few days ago
[02:56] <dasKreech> ah
[02:56] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: dec 28, from the date there
[02:56] <Hobbsee> you'll note some kde icons there though :)
[02:56] <dasKreech> Hobbsee: This doesn't count
[02:57] <dasKreech> that was from last year!
[02:57] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: yes, and it's only just this year
[02:57] <dasKreech> Old screenies don't pass muster here :)
[02:57] <Hobbsee> it hasn't changed
[02:57] <dasKreech> Lookie at KDE4 SVN stuff from this morning is out of date :)
[02:57] <Hobbsee> do you like the glass panels?
[02:57] <dasKreech> yes
[02:57] <dasKreech> And the Crystal style Gnome foot
[02:58] <Hobbsee> oh, i changed the icons.
[02:58] <Hobbsee> it now has an ubuntu logo
[02:58]  * dasKreech paints it blue and puts in gearheads
[02:58] <dasKreech> You have that wanda fish thing?
[02:59] <Hobbsee> for the moment
[02:59] <dasKreech> What does it do?
[03:00] <dasKreech> Been a while since I used Gnome
[03:00] <Hobbsee> it's a fortune thing
[03:00] <Hobbsee> What happened last night can happen again.
[03:00] <Hobbsee> er, fortune cookie thing
[03:00] <Hobbsee> it just sits there
[03:00] <dasKreech> bah
[03:00] <dasKreech> Oh right I need to poke Seli
[03:01] <dasKreech> So maybe Jucato can help but I know people keep saying how Ubuntu is ahead of us. Is there a list anywhere of where Kubuntu outshines Ubuntu?
[03:02] <dasKreech> and I guess I'm thinking a bit outside of We have KDE so that puts us ahead
[03:02] <dasKreech> .o0(Though I'd still put that as item 0 on the list)
[03:09] <nivek> Hey Hobbsee
[03:10] <Hobbsee> hi nivek
[03:10] <nivek> This is Scotty, btw.
[03:10] <nivek> Just my new nick.
[03:13] <nosrednaekim> dasKreech: i'm really not sure where they get that....
[03:14] <dasKreech> nosrednaekim: Get?
[03:16] <nosrednaekim> that ubuntu is "better"
[03:17] <Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: use it for a while.  you'll see
[03:17] <nosrednaekim> I have.... and it annoys me
[03:18] <nosrednaekim> but then again.. i've been using KDE for 5 years.
[03:18] <nosrednaekim> so GNOME naturally annoys me
[03:18] <claydoh> same here, tho its been 6 or so
[03:19] <claydoh> gnome is not for me, nothing personal
[03:19] <claydoh> so I can't say what is better or worse
[03:20] <nosrednaekim> Kubuntu is not as polished, but I'd rather have configurability than polish
[03:23] <dasKreech> That's the first time I've ever visualized a inverse polish/config chart
[03:25] <dasKreech> Hobbsee: as the inside spy. What would you say Kubuntu has a step above Ubuntu?
[03:26] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: hmmm.  i still prefer the way konversation handles things.
[03:26] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: and kde has an rss feed reader that doesn't suck.
[03:26] <Hobbsee> the way that it splits menus is nice
[03:26] <dasKreech> lifera is bad?
[03:27] <dasKreech> http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/12/30/flipping-the-linux-switch-kde-the-k-desktop-environment/
[03:28] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: it doen'st seem to handle delete properly
[03:29] <dasKreech> eh?
[03:29] <dasKreech> how can you mess up delete?
[03:30] <dasKreech> remove the article but keep  the header?
[03:30] <Hobbsee> delete, then redownload all the feesd at the next update interval
[03:30] <dasKreech> or delete the header and keep the article? >_<
[03:30] <dasKreech> Hobbsee: When you say feeds what you mean is all the data from one feed?
[03:31] <Hobbsee> yeah
[03:32] <dasKreech> That sucks
[03:54] <dasKreech> Hobbsee: but outside of particular apps
[04:03] <nixternal> Hobbsee: do you have your stick handy? I think someone needs to get poked, seriously poked
[04:03]  * Hobbsee offers nixternal the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™
[04:03] <nixternal> thank you!
[04:03] <nixternal> can jjesse have one too? then him and I can poke the hell out of this dude
[04:03] <dasKreech> Do you have that scripted?
[04:04] <dasKreech> nixternal: Which?
[04:04] <nixternal> jjesse: maybe I should link him to http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645
[04:04] <nixternal> flaccid
[04:05] <dasKreech> what's he stirring up now?
[04:05] <Hobbsee> nixternal: in #kubuntu
[04:05] <Hobbsee> ?
[04:05] <jjesse> nixternal haven't seen that
[04:05] <jjesse> in ubuntu-doc
[04:07] <jjesse> Hobbsee have you delt a lot wifh flaccid?
[04:07] <Hobbsee> jjesse: somewhat, yes.
[04:07] <jjesse> can i borrow the longpointystick of doom and whack him?
[04:07] <Hobbsee> go for it
[04:07] <Hobbsee> can i have a copy of the chatlog?
[04:08] <jjesse> nixternal: can you send a copy to Hobbsee
[04:08] <nixternal> there, I linked him to the "Poisonous People" video by Google :p
[04:08] <nivek> I could but there would be like a minute missing from when I logged out.
[04:09] <nixternal> Hobbsee: the chat log will be up shortly with the rest of the IRC logs :)
[04:09] <Hobbsee> nixternal: :)
[04:09] <nixternal> OK, he really has me f'n pissed
[04:09] <nixternal> he don't listen
[04:09] <nixternal> jjesse: let him do all of that work, and then we will tell him "sorry, you suck!"
[04:09] <nixternal> well, maybe a bit nicer
[04:10] <nixternal> s/suck/stink :p
[04:10] <nivek> Nixternal: Sorry to be so ignorant, but what exactly is he trying to argue? I understand the bit about restarting X, but what's this about a handbook?
[04:10] <nixternal> nivek: he wants to go back to the 1980s and offer a handbook for user documentation
[04:10] <jjesse> currently the help in kubuntu docs and also ubuntu-docs are no longer organized by a table of contents ,ubt topic based
[04:11] <nixternal> where is mpt when you really need him?
[04:11] <Hobbsee> nixternal: the guy's on crack, anyway.
[04:11] <nixternal> hahahahaha
[04:11] <nivek> Ohhh, okay. That makes sense.
[04:11] <nixternal> I can tell
[04:11] <nivek> I mean, not what he's arguing.
[04:11] <nivek> Just what you're arguing about.
[04:12] <nixternal> oh shoot, I know who he is now
[04:12] <nixternal> /abk
[04:12] <nixternal> ;p
[04:13] <nixternal> lol
[04:13] <nixternal> jjesse quit
[04:13] <nixternal> hahahahahahahaha
[04:13] <jjesse> wrong button
[04:13] <nixternal> lol, sure
[04:13] <jjesse>  /me gets ready for bed
[04:17] <nixternal> jeesh, 10pm already
[04:17] <nixternal> Hobbsee: look...
[04:17] <nixternal> 22:16:43 [   flaccid] hmm, i could take over the ubuntu doc preferred resource all by myself.
[04:17] <jjesse> [23:16] flaccid: hmm, i could take over the ubuntu doc preferred resource all by myself.
[04:17] <nixternal> hahahahahahahah
[04:17] <jjesse> lol
[04:17] <nixternal> jinx!
[04:18] <nixternal> what the heck are the odds on that one happeneing ever again
[04:18] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:18] <jjesse> very slim
[04:18] <jjesse> pointy stick of doom time :)
[04:18] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:18] <nixternal> robotgeek: I had to leave that conversation
[04:18] <jjesse> me too, good night :)
[04:18] <nixternal> k'nite jjesse
[04:19] <robotgeek> nixternal: :) . have a nice new years!
[04:19] <nixternal> you do the same
[04:36] <yuriy> holy crap i just actually figured out how to use adept manager
[04:37] <Hobbsee> hah
[04:37] <Hobbsee> surely not!
[04:37] <yuriy> you can right click on the filter list and add more quick filters
[04:37] <yuriy> though this may be a bug even
[04:37] <dasKreech> yuriy: It's awesome aint it?
[04:37] <yuriy> but it lets you do OR searches
[04:37] <yuriy> i don't see any other advantage
[04:38] <yuriy> dasKreech: very powerful, but very unintuitive
[04:38] <nivek> Alright, I'm gonna head to bed... Night all.
[04:39] <yuriy> i would have never thought to right click had i not been wondering what the qpopupmenu is doing in the source
[04:40] <dasKreech> Ha ha
[04:40] <dasKreech> So in the docs we just put read the source .. it'll come to you
[04:41] <yuriy> and even once i right clicked i went "wtf?" and then i clicked add quick filter and again went "wtf?"
[04:42] <yuriy> ooh easy tag filter
[04:43] <yuriy> why don't we just use that ^_^
[04:45] <dasKreech> ha ha :)
[04:47] <yuriy> now I need to think some more about how to set this up
[04:48] <yuriy> though I am really tempted to just use the easy tag filter, and add and/or functionality to the search field
[04:49] <yuriy> ...why would one search by maintainer?
[04:49] <dasKreech> Dunn
[04:49] <dasKreech> Never figured that out
[04:49] <dasKreech> Used it like once
[06:25] <Hobbsee> has that adept dist-upgrade bug *still* not been fixed?
[06:29] <dasKreech> Guess not
[06:34] <dasKreech> nixternal: awake?
[07:09] <Jucato> yuriy: there is a wishlist for adept asking for OR'ed search capabilities
[07:09] <Jucato> oops... forgot.. shuts up :)
[07:21] <nixternal> yo yo dasKreech
[07:21] <nixternal> damn, 1:30 almost
[07:21] <dasKreech> :-)
[07:21]  * Jucato sprinkles sleeping powder on nixternal
[07:21] <nixternal> been trying to figure out css hacks with ie7
[07:21] <nixternal> with ie in general
[07:21] <dasKreech> I need advice on flying
[07:22] <nixternal> I must say, ie makes web development a royal pain in the ass
[07:22] <nixternal> on flying?
[07:22] <dasKreech> Yeah
[07:22] <nixternal> dude, I hate flying, so my advice is get hammered before boarding
[07:22] <dasKreech> how do you get cheap internal flights in teh US ?
[07:22] <nixternal> I use ...
[07:22] <nixternal> orbitz I think
[07:22] <Jucato> oh... don't you just jump of the ground, defy gravity, and remember to lean to the correct direction you want to turn to?
[07:22] <nixternal> heh
[07:22] <dasKreech> and do tickets get more expensive if you don't hav a return route?
[07:23] <nixternal> I believe so
[07:23] <nixternal> you planning a terrorist attack?
[07:23] <dasKreech> no
[07:23] <Jucato> pfft
[07:23] <Jucato> boring!
[07:23] <nixternal> no return routes in the US == red flags
[07:23] <dasKreech> but I'm going to SJC then PVD then JAX
[07:23] <Jucato> O.o
[07:23] <dasKreech> I'm not returning along that route
[07:24] <dasKreech> Since I'm leaving the country after that
[07:24] <nixternal> take a plane to mexico and then hop the border...much easier and a hell of a lot cheaper
[07:24] <dasKreech> and walk to Rhode Island?
[07:24] <nixternal> if you get busted, they just deport ya, if it is your first time of course :p
[07:24] <nixternal> hitch hike man
[07:24] <nixternal> why would you want to go to RI?
[07:24] <nixternal> you can spit across that state
[07:25] <dasKreech> Tes but I have a friend who lives there
[07:25] <dasKreech> well near there
[07:25] <dasKreech> and I'm told it's cheaper to fly there than her state
[07:25] <nixternal> honestly, it may be cheaper to purchase open-ended round trip tickets..don't know though
[07:26] <nixternal> what is SJC, PVD, and JAX?
[07:26] <dasKreech> 1400 dollars
[07:26] <nixternal> jesus
[07:26] <dasKreech> airports
[07:26] <nixternal> but where?
[07:26] <nixternal> I only know ORD, MDW, and LAX
[07:26] <nixternal> heh
[07:26] <nixternal> I never pay attention to those damn letters anyways
[07:27] <dasKreech> calif Somewhere in Rhode island (I just chose one) and Florida
[07:27] <dasKreech> I need someone who can play with flight plans
[07:27] <dasKreech> there are three airports in Calif and I think 4 in the RI/Con area
[07:28] <dasKreech> I need a fairly comprehensive site that will find cheap flights
[07:28] <nixternal> ahh, JAX is jacksonville
[07:28] <dasKreech> Why can't they have one that does states instead of airports
[07:28] <dasKreech> Yes
[07:28] <dasKreech> ALmost none of them do jamAica ;-P
[07:29] <nixternal> RI you can fly into Boston as well
[07:29] <dasKreech> and one that I checked does do Jamaica but doesn't do the US
[07:29] <nixternal> don't know which would be closer
[07:29] <dasKreech> Well I'm trying to get to Connecticut
[07:29] <nixternal> you joining the WWE?
[07:29] <nixternal> hehe
[07:29] <dasKreech> She said that if it was cheaper she could pick me up in RI
[07:29] <dasKreech> I hope they don;t have to pay for their own flights
[07:29] <dasKreech> That would suck
[07:30] <dasKreech> ah good lord this is stupidly complicated
[07:32] <nixternal> ok, so you want to fly from jamaica to as close to connecticut as possible?
[07:32] <nixternal> I will help ya, but I need to make sense of this first
[07:32] <dasKreech> no
[07:33] <dasKreech> I want to fly from Jamaica to the KDE party
[07:33] <nixternal> oh
[07:33] <dasKreech> That's outlined on the KDE site
[07:33] <nixternal> so you want to fly to Oakland/San Fran
[07:33] <dasKreech> Which I think I can get since it's one airport to 3
[07:33] <dasKreech> so that's a small combination
[07:33] <nixternal> Jamaica -> KDE for leg
[07:34] <nixternal> s/for/first
[07:34] <dasKreech> then on the 19th I want to fly from there to Conneticut
[07:34] <dasKreech> right
[07:34] <nixternal> Jamaica -> KDE -> 19th Connecticut
[07:34] <nixternal> gotcha
[07:34] <nixternal> what day do you want to leave for KDE?
[07:34] <dasKreech> then on the 21 from there to JAX
[07:34] <nixternal> why 2 days in conn?
[07:34] <dasKreech> then back to JA on 25
[07:35] <Jucato> dasKreech: you're going to the party?
[07:35] <Jucato> wow
[07:35] <dasKreech> Jucato: yes
[07:35]  * Jucato books a flight ASAP
[07:35] <dasKreech> 16
[07:35] <Jucato> pfft.. I don't think I can come up with "show money" that soon :D
[07:35] <dasKreech> That's when Google has the room booked for me
[07:35] <nixternal> dasKreech: flying out of negril?
[07:35] <dasKreech> nixternal: KIN
[07:35] <nixternal> otherside
[07:36] <dasKreech> nixternal: 2 days in con cause I'm just going to see her and have her show me around
[07:36] <Jucato> dasKreech, yuriy: just in case you'd be interested: http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/paper-debtags.html
[07:36] <dasKreech> She just got a newspaper to run so she's kinda busy on non weekends
[07:37] <nixternal> well shiznit, orbitz doesn't support flights from jamaica
[07:37] <nixternal> retarded
[07:37] <dasKreech> So I did them seperate at first and the Google trip is like 173 dollars and the RI one is about 95 dollars
[07:37] <dasKreech> put them as one trip
[07:37] <dasKreech> 880 dollars
[07:38] <dasKreech> put them as seperate trips with no return flight
[07:38] <dasKreech> 1443 dollars
[07:38] <nixternal> dasKreech: for something like this, you would want to deal with a travel agent honestly..it will be much cheaper
[07:38] <dasKreech> I'm guessing
[07:39] <dasKreech> I need to find one pretty quick
[07:39] <nixternal> Cali -> Conn == $182
[07:39] <nixternal> US Scare
[07:39] <nixternal> I mean Air :p
[07:39] <dasKreech> I hope they don't charge like a % of the flight
[07:39] <dasKreech> Ha ha
[07:39] <dasKreech> nixternal: what about to RI airport?
[07:40] <nixternal> $206
[07:40] <nixternal> no RI airport
[07:40] <nixternal> that would go into Hartford Conn
[07:40] <dasKreech> that purportdly  cuts the cost since no one likes Cows .. or Family Guy
[07:40] <dasKreech> nixternal: No that' final Dest. She would drive over there and pick me up
[07:40] <nixternal> bah
[07:41] <dasKreech> don't need to fly into Conn if I can get a cheap flight to RI
[07:41] <nixternal> I hit the wrong state, found RI
[07:41] <nixternal> same price actually
[07:41] <dasKreech> Damn
[07:42] <nixternal> $206 w/ tax
[07:43] <nixternal> $99 from Rhode Island to JAX
[07:43] <nixternal> $124 w/ tax
[07:43] <nixternal> $206 + $124 == $330
[07:44] <dasKreech> Whats that last one?
[07:44] <nixternal> from jax back to jamaica right? don't feel like scrolling up
[07:44] <dasKreech> yes
[07:45] <dasKreech> What are you adding to get the 330 ?
[07:45] <nixternal> $282
[07:45] <nixternal> $612 total
[07:45] <nixternal> for KDE -> RI -> JAX -> KIN
[07:45] <dasKreech> yeah sounds like about a 800 dollar trip
[07:46] <dasKreech> that's 58,000 dollars :-(
[07:46] <dasKreech> Wonder if I can steal that in 10 days
[07:47]  * dasKreech laughs
[07:47] <dasKreech> It's pretty funny that all the small flights and the small airports are so much more expensive
[07:48] <nixternal> ooh, hold on
[07:48] <nixternal> damn
[07:48] <nixternal> why won't any of these sites go from jamaica to the us
[07:48] <nixternal> ok, let me try this again
[07:49] <dasKreech> I know it's strange
[07:50] <nixternal> hahaha
[07:50] <nixternal> cuz I am doing 07 :p
[07:50] <dasKreech> http://www.spiritair.com/welcome.aspx?pg=salesinformation&number=473
[07:51] <nixternal> $588 from KDE -> RI -> JAX -> KIN
[07:51] <nixternal> groovy, multi-destination setup with orbitz
[07:52] <dasKreech> Ah Buggers don't even fly to calif
[07:52] <dasKreech> nixternal: ha ha
[07:52] <dasKreech> nixternal: what's the price diff in KDE -> Conn ?
[07:52] <nixternal> hartford?
[07:52] <dasKreech> I guess
[07:53] <dasKreech> it seems to come out cheap
[07:54] <nixternal> $587
[07:54] <nixternal> $1 cheaper :)
[07:54] <dasKreech> Sweet and I save 4 hours driving!
[07:54] <nixternal> Hartford to Providence is like 2 hours max :)
[07:54] <dasKreech> More time to eat whatever the hell Conneticut is famous for
[07:55] <nixternal> takes me 4 hours to go from NYC to Boston driving
[07:55] <dasKreech> That' providential!
[07:55] <nixternal> and I pass both Hartford and Providence on the way there
[07:55] <dasKreech> I'm going Hartford to Waterbury
[07:55] <nixternal> ahh
[07:55] <nixternal> like I know where that is :)
[07:55] <dasKreech> like *I* know where that is
[07:55] <nixternal> haha
[07:56] <dasKreech> This is the first time I'm going to be flying by the seat of my pants
[07:56] <dasKreech> No relatives or any idea what I'm to do when I get off the plane
[07:56] <dasKreech> Sure hope I have money for a cab to the Hotel :)
[07:57] <dasKreech> nixternal: which KDE is it?
[07:58] <dasKreech> SJC or SFO ?
[07:58] <jussi01> 3am?? you guys love me that much? :)
[07:59] <dasKreech> :)
[07:59] <jussi01> meaningless Jucato hilight
[08:00] <nixternal> sfo
[08:00] <nixternal> let me check san jose really quick
[08:01] <Jucato> :D
[08:02] <nixternal> $530 out of san jose
[08:02] <nixternal> can we go lower???!?? :)
[08:04] <dasKreech> Booooo
[08:04] <dasKreech> Expedia gives me 663
[08:05] <dasKreech> Though I do have a 1 hour stop in Chicago
[08:06] <dasKreech> Hmm
[08:06] <dasKreech> Expedia is a strange site
[08:06] <nixternal> $807 for the entire trip via www.aa.com (american airlines)
[08:06] <nixternal> that would be round trip for ya :)
[08:06] <dasKreech> I can see all of them together with a price or them by legs with no price but a time
[08:07] <nixternal> through aa.com doing multi-destination, you get to see the entire thing
[08:07] <dasKreech> ok
[08:07] <nixternal> KIN -> KDE -> CONN -> JAX -> KIN == $807
[08:08] <nixternal> if you find cheaper, I will be amazed, especially considering how short notice this is
[08:08] <dasKreech> Probably going to spend some time on the phone tomorrow tearing this up to see what makes the most sense
[08:08] <nixternal> actually one of those makes a 3 hour layover 15 minutes from the house :)
[08:09] <dasKreech> nixternal: Yeah I just discussed the Conn trip Thursday and decided I'd do it last night
[08:09] <dasKreech> Your house?
[08:09] <nixternal> I live 15 minutes from O'Hare
[08:09] <dasKreech> Ok
[08:10] <dasKreech> Well I can probably get a 70 dollar round trip ticket from Spirit
[08:10] <dasKreech> I'll see if I can use that with AA as a connector internally
[08:10] <nixternal> ahhh
[08:10] <dasKreech>  nixternal: which leg?
[08:10] <nixternal> from KDE -> CONN
[08:10] <Jucato> oh yay I learned a few more apt facts today! :)
[08:10] <dasKreech> I have to book that Ticket tomorrow though
[08:11] <dasKreech> nixternal: Busy Saturday?
[08:11] <Jucato> libapt-front is superceded by libept... so that's the difference between the two...
[08:11] <nixternal> this saturday? don't know yet
[08:11] <Jucato> the other fact is that mornfall is/was the lead dev for both :D
[08:11] <nixternal> I think I might be, but I can't be 100% sure just yet, why what's up?
[08:11] <dasKreech> nixternal: No the 19th is a saturday
[08:12] <dasKreech> that's when I'd pass near you
[08:12] <nixternal> sorry
[08:12] <nixternal> that would be the CONN -> JAX trip
[08:12] <nixternal> so the 21st
[08:12] <dasKreech> You better have chicago franks ready!
[08:12] <nixternal> hehe
[08:12] <nixternal> I don't even know what they have in o'hare
[08:12] <dasKreech> Crap that suggests work
[08:13] <nixternal> there should be a hotdog stand near by though
[08:13] <imbrandon> cant hit chi without getting pizza pie
[08:13]  * imbrandon goes back to sleep
[08:14] <nixternal> haha
[08:14] <Jucato> happy new year imbrandon!
[08:14] <Jucato> and belated happy b-day
[08:14] <imbrandon> Jucato: thanks :)
[08:14] <imbrandon> ugh i got to go back to work today ; and 'm on the wrong sleep schedule
[08:14]  * imbrandon is soo tired
[08:15]  * jussi01 is at work...
[08:15] <Jucato> sleeeep :)
[08:15] <jussi01> and almost asleep..
[08:15]  * Jucato is never @ work
[08:15] <imbrandon> Jucato: cant got to get in the shower and shave soon etc etc etc for work
[08:15] <imbrandon> :)
[08:15] <Jucato> ooh shave... good idea :)
[08:15] <imbrandon> + load up my usb disk with music :)
[08:15]  * Jucato needs one too
[08:16] <Jucato> heh careful shaving while sleepy/drowsy :D
[08:16] <imbrandon> :)
[08:16] <dasKreech> :-)
[08:16]  * dasKreech can hang out at  nixternal's work place
[08:16]  * nixternal don't work
[08:16] <nixternal> so you can hang out in my cardboard box
[08:16]  * Jucato read that as cupboard...
[08:17] <nixternal> or there :p
[08:17] <Jucato> haha
[08:17] <dasKreech> http://www.linkognito.com/b.php?b=625
[08:17] <dasKreech> Yay!
[08:17] <dasKreech> You school?
[08:17] <nixternal> yup
[08:18] <nixternal> i do some contract/intern jobs every now and then
[08:18] <dasKreech> So you'd be at school?
[08:18] <nixternal> but I am getting ready to hit the job market hard
[08:18] <nixternal> that would be a monday, and there is a chance, but I would ditch for you :)
[08:18] <Jucato> good luck nixternal!!
[08:18] <nixternal> ya, I need it
[08:18] <Jucato> hopefully this year I hit the school market with a bang!
[08:18] <nixternal> ooh ya, that will be awesome
[08:18] <nixternal> gonna keep your ass busy
[08:19] <imbrandon> nixternal: just bring your arse to KC, we need peeps at VML
[08:19] <nixternal> dasKreech: that is my wallpaper in that picture
[08:19] <imbrandon> :)
[08:19] <dasKreech> nixternal: which picture?
[08:19] <nixternal> on that link
[08:19] <nixternal> imbrandon: can I telecommute? :)
[08:19] <imbrandon> you can loaf arround my house for a few months looking for a job :)
[08:20] <imbrandon> nixternal: only a few days a week
[08:20] <dasKreech> nixternal: the black :-P
[08:20] <imbrandon> not 100%
[08:20] <nixternal> haha
[08:20] <nixternal> I was interested in manchicken's proposal, however it is for perl,and I honestly do not even know where to begn with perl
[08:21] <imbrandon> perl is ok
[08:21] <nixternal> dasKreech: never mind what I was talking about, I opened that link up in konqi and flash is broke, so it showed my wallpaper for some reason
[08:21] <dasKreech> Ha ha ha
[08:22] <nixternal> dude that is cool as hell
[08:23] <dasKreech> Jucato
[08:23] <dasKreech> How cold is hell purported to be?
[08:23] <Jucato> rumor is, about 5C colder than /dev/null
[08:23] <nixternal> dunno, but it is -14F in chicago right now
[08:24] <nixternal> -24C right now
[08:24] <nixternal> jeesh, that is to cold
[08:24]  * dasKreech totally rethinks stopping
[08:24] <nixternal> haha
[08:24] <nixternal> we are supposed to get up to 50F this weekend though, which is totally odd
[08:24] <nixternal> so tomorrow, I will be out snowmobiling in our 11 inches of snow
[08:25] <nixternal> stupid weatherman said we would get a dusting today
[08:25] <nixternal> we got 6 more inches on top the 5 we go last night
[08:25] <nixternal> anywho, I am gonna crash
[08:25] <nixternal> gotta go take a match placement exam tomorrow
[08:25] <nixternal> yuck
[08:25] <nixternal> g'nite all
[08:25] <Jucato> k'night nixternal!
[08:26] <nixternal> oh ya, k'nite
[08:26] <nixternal> heh
[08:26] <dasKreech> night
[08:26] <dasKreech> thanks man
[08:26] <dasKreech> I'll try and work in that stopover
[09:06] <Tonio_> hi there and happy new year !
[09:06] <Jucato> happy new ear Tonio_!!!
[09:06] <Tonio_> ;)
[09:07] <Tonio_> Jucato: I hope you had great time on 31 evening !
[09:07] <Jucato> yeah. I got drunk! :)
[09:07] <Jucato> went home at 5am.. and still managed to get up and sing solo at church at 8am :P
[09:07]  * Jucato was proud of himself :P
[09:07] <Tonio_> haha
[09:08] <Jucato> oh.. and I didn't throw up too! :D
[09:08] <Tonio_> I wasn't drunk, that can't seem to happen anymore, whatever I drink ;)
[09:08] <Jucato> lol
[09:08] <Tonio_> but I went to sleep at 8 am.... pretty hard
[09:09] <Jucato> hehe :)
[09:12] <hads> 5pm :)
[09:12] <Jucato> unfortunately.. after I got home from church... I slept through *almost* the whole day
[09:35] <mornfall> Good day, lads and ladies.
[09:35] <mornfall> yuriy: Hi, please ping me when you are around. We probably need to talk. : - ).
[09:36] <Jucato> woot :)
[09:37] <Jucato> yuriy: or you can also start lurking in #kde-devel where he's in most of the time :D
[09:39] <Jucato> mornfall, yuriy: I wish  you guys the best of luck with Adept. if ever Ubuntu doesn't move over to PackageKit, Kubuntu will really be needing a Qt4/KDE4 GUI package manager. :D
[10:17] <_StefanS_> hey
[10:18] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: long time no see :)
[10:18] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: and that goes for me too ..
[10:19] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: hey you !
[10:20] <Jucato> _StefanS_!!! happy new year!!
[10:20] <_StefanS_> Jucato: Happy new year to you aswell :) - do you still have all your fingers and stuff after the fireworks ?
[10:21] <Jucato> yep. I'm just missing my head :)
[10:21] <_StefanS_> haha.. then its all normal I guess :)
[10:21] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: happy new year to you also :) - do you have any nice things happening?
[10:22] <Jucato> yep. very nomral :)
[10:22] <Jucato> normal*
[10:22] <_StefanS_> Jucato: normal for you ... yes. :)
[10:22] <_StefanS_> Jucato: saw your blog on new year and things.. you really messed around with krita I guess :)
[10:22] <Jucato> unfortunately it was all inkscape :)
[10:23] <_StefanS_> ah ok..
[10:23] <Jucato> Karbon14 is barely usable
[10:23] <Jucato> (SVG ftw! heheh)
[10:23] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: nice things happening, yes of course ;)
[10:23] <_StefanS_> inkscape is pretty cool..
[10:23] <Jucato> but yeah, I really messed around/up :)
[10:23] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: oncerning kubuntu, well I have a few days to work on it, so I hope to do nice things...
[10:24] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: a few days from now?
[10:24] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: because I might be able to help out there aswell.. I just need to know the state of things
[10:24] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I got a little sidetracked due to regular life :)
[10:25] <_StefanS_> Jucato: btw, I bought some new hardware, just to let you know
[10:25] <_StefanS_> Jucato: hehe
[10:25] <Jucato> rawr! :P
[10:26] <_StefanS_> Jucato: this time a nice Aopen Minipc.. it really is quite alot like a macmini, only not borked with apple efi :)
[10:26] <Jucato> lol
[10:26] <_StefanS_> Jucato: I still have some ddr2 so-dimm memory lying around (4x1gb sticks)
[10:27] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yep from now, as I didn't went on my contrib days for a moment now, I have a few to take grouped
[10:28] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: this whole kde4 and kde3 business just got me confused really, but we're going to have both desktops, right ? if so we should stabiliize kde3 even further
[10:28] <Tonio_> I think so, at least that's what I wanna do
[10:29]  * Jucato whistles innocently
[10:29] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I know there's some issues with kdmtheme atleast, but I havent looked much into the lp bugs
[10:30] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: ah...
[10:30] <_StefanS_> Hmm I think we could make the default theme for hardy less glassy. Its starting to get too much I think
[10:30] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I have a couple of bugs on the kde desktop to fix today
[10:31] <_StefanS_> QtCurve would be a better choice, and since marts TastyMenu is already present, why not take his deco/style aswell.
[10:31]  * Jucato notes that kdmtheme is already integrated into kdm in kde4...
[10:31] <_StefanS_> Jucato: yep, I know
[10:31] <Jucato> present? packaged, but not installed by default
[10:31] <_StefanS_> Jucato: one less thingy to worry about
[10:31] <_StefanS_> Ju
[10:31] <_StefanS_> cato: packaged, yep.
[10:31] <Jucato> cato
[10:31] <Jucato> :)
[10:32]  * _StefanS_ is currently installing debian etch..
[10:33] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: lets take a few days (?) and check up on the bugs then, and lets coord some fixing thereafter
[10:33] <Jucato> O.O
[11:07] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: you agree, or just left ?:)
[11:11] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: oups sorry, I agree :)
[11:11] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: what was the point of the /etc/default/kdm.d/20_kubuntu_default_settings file in kdmtheme again ?
[11:11] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: and 30..
[11:13] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: get kdm config done dynamically
[11:14] <Tonio_> 20 is the kubuntu config and 30 the users specific
[11:14] <Lure> Tonio_, _StefanS_, Jucato: happy new year to you and your families!
[11:16] <Tonio_> hey Lure, same for you, I hope the best for you !
[11:16] <Tonio_> and family of course
[11:17] <Lure> Tonio_: long time no see - how are you?
[11:17] <Lure> how is french parlament job doing?
[11:18] <_StefanS_> Lure: same to you :)
[11:18] <Tonio_> Lure: very well, indeed I got a crazy time at work and absolutly no time to connect here :/
[11:19] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: seems like the latest 1.2.2 of kdmtheme removed the patched that we worked to create for those files..  I will reintroduce them and have it resubmittet
[11:20] <Lure> Riddell: we really need ShipIT decision for hardy: Binner already spreads unconfirmed info: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3174
[11:21] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: super
[11:22] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yep, it completely ignores the /etc/kdm.d layout as it is now.
[11:23] <Riddell> Lure: we decided on kde 4
[11:25] <_StefanS_> Riddell: thats kde4 coupled with kde3 software where a counterpart is missing from kde4, right?
[11:25] <Riddell> _StefanS_: yes
[11:25] <_StefanS_> right.
[11:25] <_StefanS_> sounds good then
[11:26] <_StefanS_> are we doing the kde4 + kde3 coupling now ?
[11:26] <_StefanS_> through http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu i mean
[11:28] <Riddell> _StefanS_: people can install whatever they want
[11:28] <Riddell> but the kde 4 hardy CDs are blocked on seed changes
[11:30] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I hope kde4 is not going to be compiled with full debug for those releases.. it seems to slow it down _alot_
[11:31] <_StefanS_> but ofcourse its official released by then from kde e.v., so I guess debug is not needed anyways
[11:32] <Riddell> I'm pretty sure we strip debug symbols
[11:32] <_StefanS_> cool.
[11:32] <_StefanS_> alot more positive then :)
[11:33] <mornfall> Debug symbols are exactly the  part that causes no slowdown.
[11:34] <Lure> Riddell: is it possible to get upfront SRU exception for hardy for kde 4.0.x releases - that I think would be good
[11:34] <Lure> Riddell: what about CD size (kde4 + kde3lib + some kde3apps)?
[11:35] <Lure> Riddell: is winfoss gone?
[11:35] <Lure> mornfall: ++ ;-)
[11:38] <mornfall> When is the release, anyway?
[11:39] <Lure> mornfall: kde 4.0? tagging on 4th, release on 12th afair
[11:39] <mornfall> Kubuntu whatever-is-next, I mean.
[11:40] <mornfall> Probably the one that wants Adept for KDE4.
[11:41] <Lure> mornfall: 3rd week of april
[11:42] <mornfall> Hm.
[11:42] <mornfall> Feature freeze?
[11:42] <mornfall> Or just gimme the plan link...
[11:42] <Lure> Feb 14: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
[11:43] <mornfall> Could do.
[11:44] <mornfall> Although not sure about the Installer/Updater fate.
[11:45] <Riddell> Lure: no idea about CD size since there's no CDs yet to judge, I don't expect it'll have winfoss yet
[11:46] <Hobbsee> greets
[11:46] <mornfall> Good day to you, Hobbsee.
[11:46] <Hobbsee> mornfall!
[11:46] <mornfall> Indeed.
[11:47] <Lure> Riddell: we can always drop OOo ;-)
[11:48] <Hobbsee> hurrah!
[11:49] <mhb> good afternoon
[11:49] <Hobbsee> heya mhb
[11:50] <mhb> whats cooking?
[11:51] <Hobbsee> painful bosses.
[11:51] <mhb> ouch
[11:52] <mornfall> Cooking, cooking. Lunch! I will be back.
[11:52] <mornfall> (In 2 hours or so, sooner if things go well.)
[11:52] <Tm_T> hi kids
[11:52] <mhb> hey mornfall, long time no see
[11:53] <mhb> hi Tm_T
[12:28] <CheGuevara> ping Hobbsee
[12:28] <Hobbsee> CheGuevara: pong
[12:28] <CheGuevara> a couple more debdiffs are ready
[12:28] <CheGuevara> bug 174252
[12:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174252 in libungif4 "transition to libgif" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174252
[12:29] <CheGuevara> Hobbsee: I also remember you were asking something about intel drm/drivers?
[12:30] <Hobbsee> CheGuevara: yeah, if you were using the latest drm
[12:30] <Hobbsee> apparently you need the latest drm and the latest git, and they want to know if it works any better with those
[12:30] <Hobbsee> (under exa mode)
[12:30] <CheGuevara> yeah i am thinking of building mm
[12:30] <CheGuevara> which includes the  drm
[12:31] <CheGuevara> as in (mm kernel)
[12:31] <Hobbsee> what's the mm kernel?
[12:31] <CheGuevara> andrew morton's kernel
[12:31] <CheGuevara> its where most new features/bugs go before they are merged main line
[12:32] <CheGuevara> a bleeding edge testing kernel basically
[12:33] <Hobbsee> ah right
[12:33] <Lure> Riddell: what is the decision in regards to KDEHOME? use ~/.kde4 for all apps in kde4 session (including kde3) or will kde3 apps use ~/.kde? or will we use ~/.kde for all?
[12:38] <fdoving> it would be nice to have the bookmarks and wallets from kde3 in kde4 too.
[12:38] <sebastian^> good morning folks and happy new year for the 423589723598nd time :)
[12:42] <CheGuevara> Hobbsee: basically yeah it needs testing, i am pretty sure it'll help though, they will need to be merged to our kernel or else xaa made default again
[12:42] <CheGuevara> current exa performance is terrible
[12:42] <buz> Lure: at least for me, i can't even launch kde4 in the same $HOME as kde3 lives
[12:42] <Hobbsee> CheGuevara: true that.
[12:42] <buz> it just crashes at some point
[12:42] <buz> using a newly created user works fine
[12:43] <Hobbsee> CheGuevara: test it out then.  that'd be good :)
[12:45] <CheGuevara> Hobbsee: i'll try between libgif and merging new kde 4 from debian :P
[12:45] <Hobbsee> CheGuevara: do the new kernel, and merge as you test hte kernel :)
[12:45] <CheGuevara> lol
[12:47] <CheGuevara> Hobbsee: there are some things that don't require source changes from libgif, just a rebuild i guess, what do you want me to do with those,just post a list?
[12:47] <yuriy> ping mornfall
[12:47] <Hobbsee> CheGuevara: er, probably create debdiffs for them too.  but give us a list to start with
[12:49] <Tonio_> hey Hobbsee, CheGuevara, yuriy, hapy new year !
[12:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just fixed opensync-plugin-kdepim against latest kdepim package
[12:49] <yuriy> happy new year Tonio_!
[12:49] <Hobbsee> heya Tonio_!
[12:49] <Jucato> [19:52] <mornfall> Cooking, cooking. Lunch! I will be back. [19:52] <mornfall> (In 2 hours or so, sooner if things go well.)
[12:49] <Jucato> yuriy: ^^^ about an hour ago :)
[12:50] <yuriy> yeah, i noticed
[12:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: now fixing kitchensync, which misses kontact entry
[12:50] <Jucato> yuriy: seems like he's also doing an adept port to kde4, but starting from scratch I think...
[12:51] <Jucato> yuriy: http://anna.fi.muni.cz/~xrockai/adept3-dev3.png
[12:52]  * Jucato is gone...
[12:52] <Jucato> laters :)
[12:53] <yuriy> Jucato: i was thinking maybe a "here's my darcs branch where i ported it already a while ago..."
[12:53] <Jucato> well, just wait for him :)
[12:57] <CheGuevara> Tonio_: hey and happy new year
[12:57] <CheGuevara> Hobbsee: meh, thats the most boring job ever lol
[12:58] <CheGuevara> w00t kdelibs5-dev_3.98.0~svn753247-1ubuntu1 built
[13:11] <CheGuevara> hmm is it me or kde 4 doesn't auto mount cd roms
[13:17] <Tonio_> am I the only one who is still trying to give some love to kde3.5 ? :)
[13:17] <fdoving> yes.
[13:17] <CheGuevara> yes
[13:17] <CheGuevara> we all love shiny things
[13:17] <CheGuevara> lol
[13:20] <Tonio_> well I see lots of problems with 3.5, and btw 4.0 will not be usable when hardy is out
[13:20] <Tonio_> I really think we shouldn't forgive about 3.5 for hardy
[13:20] <Tonio_> s/forgive/forget
[13:21]  * Tonio_ is still drunk a bit
[13:22] <mornfall> Now, lunch is done, let me eat it and I am all yours.
[13:22] <CheGuevara> its usable for me right now :)
[13:22]  * yuriy still keeps thinking we have until June
[13:23] <CheGuevara> but yeah Tonio_ you have a point of course
[13:23] <CheGuevara> but since i stoped using 3.5.x myself its hard to find motivation to work on it :P
[13:24] <Tonio_> CheGuevara: well you certainly use a lot of 3.5 applications right ?
[13:25] <Tonio_> kde4 is atm only a base of desktop, with very few apps
[13:25] <Tonio_> what about kdepim, kitchensync, knetworkmanager, guidance etc... ?
[13:25] <CheGuevara> Tonio_: knetworkmanager and konversation are the only ones i use
[13:26] <Tonio_> CheGuevara: no k3b ? ;)
[13:26] <CheGuevara> Tonio_: yeah i guess i would if i had to, last time i burnt a cd was a long time ago though lol
[13:27] <CheGuevara> knetworkmanager especially pissess me off, solid has a backend for nm
[13:27] <CheGuevara> but there's no frontend to use it
[13:28] <Tonio_> no frontend ? I don't get you there
[13:28] <CheGuevara> Tonio_: i mean a qt4/kde4 frontend
[13:28] <Tonio_> ah yeah
[13:28] <CheGuevara> or may be a plasmoid would be a better termin :P
[13:29] <Tonio_> CheGuevara: well most kde3 apps will be ported to kde4 but only once kde4 is released, that's why I don't consider kde4 a priority before 4.1
[13:29] <Tonio_> not a priority on the distro side at least
[13:29] <Tonio_> we can't provide kde4 by default before it has apps to use with
[13:30] <CheGuevara> Tonio_: i get you, but then since its gonna be now shipped on official cds it also needs love
[13:30] <Tonio_> CheGuevara: but not all love ;) kde3 also needs to be loved really, and especially since that's the desktop 90% of kubuntu hardy's users will use
[13:31] <CheGuevara> Tonio_: what makes you think that?
[13:31] <CheGuevara> the numbers that is
[13:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: trying to fix the localisation issue with guidance power manager as we previously discussed
[13:32] <Tonio_> CheGuevara: what makes me think of that ? kde4 development status
[13:32] <Tonio_> CheGuevara: the fact it has no koffice, no kdepim released yet and so on
[13:33] <CheGuevara> hmm i doubt the 90% number
[13:33] <CheGuevara> people tend to want the newest thing there
[13:53] <yuriy> so, what's up, mornfall ?
[13:53] <yuriy> is that a screenshot? http://anna.fi.muni.cz/~xrockai/adept3-dev3.png
[13:55] <mornfall> yuriy: Indeed.
[13:55] <yuriy> mornfall: very nice. way ahead of me...
[13:56] <mornfall> yuriy: Unfortunately, nontrivial amount of mechanics is missing yet.
[13:57] <yuriy> mornfall: well my branch is basically a direct port of adept 2 so the mechanics are there but it's not pretty
[13:57] <yuriy> mornfall: is that list model/view already?
[13:58] <mornfall> yuriy: Yes.
[13:58] <mornfall> Well, there is basically a Delegate that works with a QStandardModel.
[13:59] <yuriy> mmhmm
[13:59] <mornfall> Plus some auxiliarry classes to make QListView work this way.
[13:59] <mornfall> +spelling
[13:59] <yuriy> so the question is what now?
[13:59] <mornfall> Right.
[13:59] <yuriy> i don't think there's anything too useful in mine
[14:00] <yuriy> how long have you been working on this?
[14:00] <mornfall> Tue Dec 25 11:43:00 CET 2007  me@mornfall.net
[14:00] <mornfall>   * very basic project bootstrap
[14:00] <mornfall> Says darcs.
[14:00] <yuriy> is the code available somewhere?
[14:01] <mornfall> yuriy: The refactored libept is available at http://anna.fi.muni.cz/~xrockai/ept-work
[14:01] <mornfall> yuriy: I'll put adept alongside in a bit.
[14:03] <CheGuevara> Hobbsee: do you think you can speed up the kde4 packages in the queue or are you the wrong person :P
[14:03] <CheGuevara> (just don't poke me plz)
[14:03] <CheGuevara> *new queue
[14:03] <mornfall> yuriy: http://anna.fi.muni.cz/~xrockai/adept-3
[14:04] <Hobbsee> CheGuevara: wrong person.  they'd get dumped i nmain, and i'd prefer not to review stuff that bibg
[14:04] <mornfall> yuriy: When you have both, symlink ept-work/ept and ept-work/wibble underneath adept-3
[14:04] <yuriy> mornfall: so you are starting from scratch?
[14:04] <mornfall> yuriy: And configure adept-3 with -DINTERNAL_WIBBLE=ON -DINTERNAL_EPT=ON
[14:04] <mornfall> yuriy: Then run make check
[14:05] <mornfall> yuriy: To see if it compiles.
[14:05] <mornfall> yuriy: Configured with cmake.
[14:05] <mornfall> yuriy: Scratch in a way, yes.
[14:05] <mornfall> yuriy: Learning from experience and taking the "good" chunks of code.
[14:06] <CheGuevara> Hobbsee: no they are extragear packages
[14:06] <CheGuevara> that'll stay in universe
[14:06] <yuriy> mornfall: i see
[14:06] <Hobbsee> CheGuevara: by a LP bug, they'll get bumped to main
[14:07] <CheGuevara> don't see why we'd want extragear packages in main, but ok, just asking :)
[14:07] <jpatrick> some of my packages almost ended up in main because of it :)
[14:07] <yuriy> mornfall: all i've done is taken the code that's in gutsy and made it compile and run with kde4/qt4 with kde3support/qt3support. i doubt there's anything useful there for you, but have a look: https://code.launchpad.net/~yuriy-kozlov/adept/adept-qt4
[14:08] <CheGuevara> lol jpatrick
[14:08] <yuriy> mornfall: note that this was just something i tried on a whim and still don't really know the code base and have never used cmake before
[14:08] <Lure> Riddell: since there is no powermanager in kde4, should we revive qt4 port of guidance-power-manager?
[14:09] <_StefanS_> Lure: cant we make somethine based on the battery monitor already present?
[14:09] <_StefanS_> something
[14:09] <jpatrick> CheGuevara: all packages have to pass thought Main Inclusion to be in main
[14:10] <CheGuevara> yeah i know that
[14:10] <CheGuevara> but i am saying why would we want them in main anyway?
[14:10] <jpatrick> later
[14:10] <CheGuevara> well except for ktorrent may be
[14:10] <mornfall> Let me install bzr.
[14:10] <Lure> _StefanS_: I am just hacking on plasma battery monitor, but this is not the place to put policies, just presentation
[14:11] <_StefanS_> Lure: mkay
[14:11] <Lure> _StefanS_: we need something in Solid in future
[14:11] <_StefanS_> yep
[14:11] <Lure> and configuration for it
[14:11] <_StefanS_> hopefully all the backlight issues will go away also :D
[14:11] <_StefanS_> btw, works fine in hardy now on kde3
[14:11] <_StefanS_> using guidance
[14:11] <Lure> _StefanS_: but you are right - it may be more wise to work upstream on 4.1 solution and potentially back-port if ready
[14:12] <yuriy> mornfall: so you decided to forgo the advanced filters and have just the single search field?
[14:12] <yuriy> i was thinking something in between
[14:12] <_StefanS_> Lure: definitely needed by alot of users, thats for sure
[14:12] <mornfall> yuriy: Not really, they are going back when I get around to that.
[14:13] <yuriy> mornfall: are you going along with https://wiki.kubuntu.org/AdeptUsability or do you have a new plan?
[14:14] <yuriy> (also, are the rest of the pictures from that page still somewhere?)
[14:15] <mornfall> Somewhere probably yes.
[14:16] <mornfall> Basically, yes, I am heeding those observations.
[14:18]  * yuriy -> off to work to sit around and learn darcs
[14:20] <mornfall> : - )
[14:31] <Tonio_> mornfall: ping ?
[14:31] <mornfall> Tonio_: pong
[14:31] <Tonio_> mornfall: I was wondering how to get <string> messages extracted with xgettext
[14:32] <Tonio_> mornfall: I'm trying to get a nice guidance.pot file but .ui files are not parsed correctly
[14:32] <Tonio_> mornfall: so in case you might know about that.... :)
[14:33] <_StefanS_> bbl
[14:34]  * Jucato is happy to see mornfall and yuriy hacking their heads together on Adept :P
[14:35] <mornfall> Kšá : - P.
[14:35] <imbrandon> mornfall! happy new year
[14:35] <mornfall> Thanks.
[14:35] <imbrandon> :)
[14:35] <mornfall> Tonio_: Good question...
[14:36] <Jucato> oh right... I haven't greeted you yet. happy new year mornfall :)
[14:36] <mornfall> Tonio_: Wasn't there a tool for that?
[14:36] <mornfall> Same to everyone (wrt. new year).
[14:36] <Tonio_> mornfall: xgettext with some good options I suspect
[14:36] <Tonio_> mornfall: I seem to get xgettext reading the file, since I'm getting warnings, but nothing related to .ui files in the .pot
[14:36] <Tonio_> weird
[14:36] <imbrandon> wow , adept3 is looking nice
[14:37] <bddebian> Heya
[14:37] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[14:37] <bddebian> Hi imbrandon
[14:38] <Jucato> hi bddebian! happy new year!
[14:38] <Tonio_> imbrandon: url please ?
[14:38] <Tonio_> imbrandon: about adept ;)
[14:38] <Jucato> mornfall: are you also going to rename the classes and filenames to become more.. um.. descriptive? :)
[14:39] <imbrandon> Tonio_: http://anna.fi.muni.cz/~xrockai/adept-3
[14:39]  * Jucato still can't get over class TestApp and class Application :D
[14:39] <mornfall> Tonio_: If you are looking for screenshot, then http://anna.fi.muni.cz/~xrockai/adept3-dev3.png
[14:39] <bddebian> Jucato: Hi, Happy New Year to you! :)
[14:40] <mornfall> Jucato: Ooops : - ).
[14:40] <imbrandon> ahh yes i was cutoff thanks mornfall
[14:40] <mornfall> imbrandon: That's a darcs repo, though : - ).
[14:40] <imbrandon> :)
[14:41] <imbrandon> still c++ or python ?
[14:41]  * imbrandon has been qt4 python hacking lately
[14:42]  * Jucato prays C++...
[14:42] <imbrandon> Jucato: why? heh
[14:42] <mornfall> Definitely C++.
[14:42] <Jucato> heh j/k. just trying to provoke mhb this time :)
[14:42] <imbrandon> mornfall: cool
[14:42] <mornfall> I am not touching Python with a 10-foot pole.
[14:42] <mornfall> ; - ).
[14:42] <imbrandon> lol heh
[14:43] <imbrandon> python isnt too bad, i used to think the same thing untill about 2 weeks ago
[14:43] <imbrandon> and i've been tinkering with it
[14:43] <Jucato> it's not bad at all... just not my type :)
[14:43] <Jucato> or rather, I picked the wrong book to start with :P
[14:43] <imbrandon> its great for rapid development
[14:43] <mornfall> imbrandon: I have thought python isn't too bad before I got to tinker with it.
[14:43] <imbrandon> hehe
[14:44] <mornfall> But to everyone what is theirs.
[14:44]  * Jucato nods
[14:44] <Jucato> Python will always have a place... in *buntu :)
[14:44] <imbrandon> yup yup, C++ isnt bad at all either, if i use a compiled lang C++ is the way to go imho
[14:44] <imbrandon> then c# next , then python
[14:44] <imbrandon> :)
[14:44] <mornfall> Hm. My throne is shared by C++ and Haskell.
[14:45] <Jucato> hm... my throne is in the bathroom...
[14:45] <Jucato> oops. wrong throne...
[14:45] <imbrandon> heh i dont think i have even ever looked at haskel
[14:45] <imbrandon> Haskell*
[14:46] <mornfall> When have to choose a dynamically typed, then ruby.
[14:46] <mornfall> +language.
[14:46] <Jucato> ah! the beautiful proliferation and diversity of programming languages :)
[14:46] <imbrandon> heh
[14:46] <Jucato> undefined reference to operator+()
[14:46]  * Jucato hides
[14:47] <mornfall> Anyone willing to test-compile adept-3?
[14:48] <imbrandon> mornfall: sure as long as i dont have to learn darcs
[14:48] <imbrandon> tell me the commands to checkout or give me a tarbal heheh
[14:48] <mornfall> You need to have it installed.
[14:48] <mornfall> Make a clean directory, say
[14:48] <mornfall> mkdir foo
[14:48] <mornfall> cd foo
[14:48] <mornfall> darcs get http://anna.fi.muni.cz/~xrockai/ept-work/
[14:49] <mornfall> darcs get http://anna.fi.muni.cz/~xrockai/adept-3/
[14:49] <mornfall> cd adept-3
[14:49] <mornfall> ln -s ../ept-work/{wibble,ept} .
[14:49] <mornfall> mkdir _build
[14:49] <mornfall> cd _build
[14:49] <mornfall> cmake .. -DINTERNAL_WIBBLE=ON -DINTERNAL_EPT=ON
[14:50] <mornfall> You need: libtagcoll2-dev, libxapian-dev, kdelibs5-dev
[14:50] <mornfall> At least.
[14:50] <imbrandon> k
[14:50] <mornfall> To also run it, you need apt-xapian-index, which is probably not in kubuntu though : - \.
[14:50] <mornfall> Hmh.
[14:50] <imbrandon> i think it is
[14:50] <mornfall> Would be great.
[14:51] <imbrandon> err maybe not
[14:51]  * Jucato wibbles... er.. wobbles...
[14:51] <Jucato> !find xapian
[14:51] <ubotu> Found: libxapian-dev, libxapian15, xapian-doc, xapian-examples, xapian-tools (and 6 others)
[14:51] <mornfall> It is plain python with small dependencies though.
[14:51] <imbrandon> still checking out code, once i start the compile i'll poke you
[14:51] <mornfall> So shouldn't be hard to get from debian. Maybe even out of the box.
[14:51] <mornfall> Ok.
[14:52] <imbrandon> yea if it compiles fine i'll grab it from debian
[14:54] <imbrandon> ok installing deps now
[14:54] <imbrandon> hrm i wonder how hard it would be to use libept in a python app
[14:54]  * imbrandon thinks
[14:54] <mornfall> It will probably fail to link with make, try make -C manager though.
[14:54] <imbrandon> there is python-apt but suxors
[14:54] <imbrandon> hehe
[14:55] <imbrandon> k
[14:57] <imbrandon> umm no CMakeList.txt
[14:57] <imbrandon> mornfall: ^^
[14:58] <mornfall> Drat : - ).
[14:59] <imbrandon> :)
[15:00] <mornfall> imbrandon: Run darcs pull
[15:01] <mornfall> And answer y to the questions.
[15:01] <mornfall> Or run darcs pull -a
[15:02] <mornfall> (Hm, KDE4 bits of cmake screw up shared library linking...)
[15:02] <imbrandon> INCLUDE Could not find include file: KDE4Macros
[15:02] <imbrandon> looks like i'm missing some more bits
[15:02] <mornfall> Do you have kdelibs5-dev?
[15:02] <imbrandon> yup
[15:03] <ryanakca> mhb: ping, I'm back :)
[15:03] <Vorian> morning :)
[15:03] <ryanakca> morning Vorian
[15:03] <imbrandon> heya Vorian
[15:03] <mornfall> I have /usr/share/kde4/apps/cmake/modules/KDE4Macros.cmake
[15:03] <imbrandon> mornfall: i'm on gutsy if that matters
[15:03] <Vorian> how goes :)
[15:04] <Vorian> the new upslash in kde4 is rockin'
[15:04] <mornfall> FindKDE4 should add that directory to module find path...
[15:05] <mornfall> imbrandon: I have seen that problem, but can't recall why or where.
[15:05] <imbrandon> k, lemme dig a bit
[15:05] <ryanakca> oooh, meeting today
[15:06] <mornfall> imbrandon: Maybe you could paste entire cmake output.
[15:06] <imbrandon> sure one sec
[15:08] <imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/3200/
[15:08] <Tonio_> Lure: ping ?
[15:09] <Tonio_> Lure: is that know problem that kitchensync kontact plugin crashes with kdepim enterprise branch ?
[15:09] <Tonio_> Lure: kitchensync alone is working likea charm, just the kontact plugin crashes
[15:09] <Tonio_> Lure: I also noticed it is disabled by default
[15:10] <mornfall> imbrandon: For some reason, FindKDE4 is not running...
[15:10] <imbrandon> bash: FindKDE4: command not found
[15:10] <imbrandon> hehe
[15:12] <Lure> Tonio_: never tried kitchensync in kontact
[15:12] <Lure> enterprise branch has different plugin interface, so it may need change
[15:12] <Lure> basket required change to .desktop file only
[15:12] <Tonio_> Lure: svn please ?
[15:13] <Tonio_> Lure: hum so basket package could be a good example ?
[15:13] <Tonio_> lemme test
[15:13] <Tonio_> Lure: well the plugin is seen but I get a segfault when loading it
[15:14] <Tonio_> hard to trace btw
[15:20] <mornfall> imbrandon: I mean the cmake module.
[15:23] <imbrandon> mornfall: i know, i was being sarcastic
[15:23] <Tonio_> Lure: got the svn url please ?
[15:23] <imbrandon> hehe it was a bad joke
[15:23] <Lure> Tonio_: svn of enterprise?
[15:23] <Tonio_> Lure: yep
[15:24] <Lure> Tonio_: svn+ssh://lure@svn.kde.org/home/kde/branches/kdepim/enterprise/kdepim
[15:24] <Lure> Tonio_: but not that much has changed since last hardy snapshot
[15:25] <Tonio_> Lure: I know, I wan't the svn log in fact :)
[15:29] <Tonio_> Lure: hum no log on that file.....
[15:29] <Tonio_> Lure: is #kontact the channel to talk about enterprise version problems ?
[15:29] <manchicken> nixternal: What's my proposal?
[15:30] <Lure> Tonio_: yes
[15:30] <manchicken> Tonio_: Howdy
[15:30] <Tonio_> Lure: there must be a reason that it's disabled for month in the enterprise version, but it looks strange to me that this cannot be fixed since kitchensync works like a charm
[15:30] <Tonio_> hey manchicken :)
[15:30] <Tonio_> happy new year my friend
[15:30] <manchicken> How goes it?
[15:30] <manchicken> And to you :)
[15:30] <Tonio_> manchicken: perfect, thanks
[15:31] <\sh> moins :)
[15:31] <manchicken> How the hell did I get 1,355 spam messages in less than 24 hours?
[15:31] <Hobbsee> new year.
[15:32] <Jucato> manchicken!!! happy new year!! :0
[15:32] <Jucato> :)
[15:32] <manchicken> Jucato: Happy new year :)
[15:38] <\sh> happy new year everyone...:) so what's up in Kubuntu country :)
[15:47] <yuriy> mornfall: i'm using FIND_PACKAGE(KDE4 REQUIRED) and including ${KDE4_INCLUDES}
[15:48] <yuriy> and not include( FindKDE4 )
[15:48] <yuriy> but neither seems to work with yours (i got hte same problem as imbrandon )
[15:52] <yuriy> mornfall, imbrandon: ah, right you need -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/lib/kde4
[15:55] <yuriy> getting errors compiling
[15:55] <mornfall> yuriy: Have you made the symlinks and the remaining -Ds?
[15:57] <yuriy> mornfall: yep: ept -> ../ept-work/ept, wibble -> ../ept-work/wibble, cmake .. -DINTERNAL_WIBBLE=ON -DINTERNAL_EPT=ON -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/lib/kde4
[15:57] <mornfall> yuriy: And the compile error being?
[15:57] <yuriy> /usr/include/xapian/enquire.h: In constructor ‘ept::core::xapian::List::List(Xapian::Enquire)’:
[15:57] <yuriy> /usr/include/xapian/enquire.h:618: error: ‘Xapian::Enquire::Enquire(const Xapian::Enquire&)’ is private
[15:57] <mornfall> Oh.
[15:57] <yuriy> /home/yuriy/adept/adept-3/ept/core/xapian.h:69: error: within this context
[15:57] <yuriy> /usr/include/xapian/enquire.h: In member function ‘ept::core::xapian::List ept::core::xapian::Source::query(const std::string&, int)’:
[15:57] <mornfall> yuriy: >= 1.0.5
[15:58] <mornfall> Grmh.
[15:58] <mornfall>   Version table:
[15:58] <mornfall>  *** 1.0.5-0~morn 0
[15:58] <mornfall>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[15:58] <yuriy> so this isn't gonna work too well on gutsy is it... yet another reason to upgrade
[15:58] <mornfall> yuriy: libxapian-dev 1.0.5 is pretty new upstream, even
[15:58] <mornfall> yuriy: But it should be fairly non-intrusive change.
[15:58] <yuriy> !info libxapian-dev hardy
[15:58] <ubotu> libxapian-dev: Development files for Xapian search engine library. In component main, is optional. Version 1.0.4-1 (hardy), package size 1144 kB, installed size 3628 kB
[15:59] <mornfall> yuriy: I'll give you the source package in a second.
[16:00] <yuriy> i was going to try to install it from debian unstable
[16:00] <mornfall> yuriy: yuriy It's not there either : - (.
[16:00] <mornfall> Although it's been promised to me a while ago.
[16:00] <yuriy> oh wth it's there for every arch except 386
[16:01] <mornfall> Ick.
[16:01] <yuriy> mornfall: so you're using this for search instead of the predicate thing which i haven't quite figured out?
[16:03] <yuriy> mornfall: 1.0.4 won't work either? (i have 1.0.2)
[16:04] <mornfall> yyuUnfortunately, no.
[16:04] <mornfall> Hmh. Tab.
[16:05] <mornfall> yuriy: No, the problem was fixed in 1.0.5.
[16:05] <mornfall> I had a workaround, but when .5 was released, I dropped it (it was veeery ugly).
[16:06] <mornfall> yuriy: You can grab the source package from Debian and build it locally, though?
[16:07] <mornfall> Riddell: How hard it is to get libxapian-dev 1.0.5 synced at this point?
[16:08] <Hobbsee> mornfall: not terribly, but looks like it requires some rebuilds, etc
[16:09] <mornfall> Hobbsee: It is ABI-compatible to 1.0.4.
[16:09] <Hobbsee> mornfall: ah good
[16:09] <mornfall> So shouldn't be a big deal?
[16:09]  * Hobbsee requests it
[16:09] <mornfall> Thanks : - ).
[16:10] <Jucato> ooh he has a dimple below the mouth! :)
[16:10] <mornfall> Jucato: Not really.
[16:11]  * mornfall hides.
[16:11] <Jucato> lol :)
[16:23] <yuriy> ok that fixed it
[16:31] <Jucato> curiousity question: whenever kdm is updated, users get asked which versions of the config file they want to use. what calls this/how is this implemented? :)
[16:39] <imbrandon> any experinced pyqt4 people arround ?
[16:41] <yuriy> mornfall: did you say there is a problem linking?
[16:47] <yuriy> i wanted to try to put libxapian from debian in my ppa. what do i do for the changelog/version
[16:47] <yuriy> do i need a new entry?
[16:47] <jpatrick> yuriy: I suggest currectVersion~ppa1
[16:48] <jpatrick> for new entry
[16:48] <yuriy> when i run dch it wants to add it under the current version
[16:48] <jpatrick> dch -i ?
[16:48] <yuriy> ah
[16:55] <mhb> hey ryanakca
[16:58] <yuriy> oops didn't change the email in the changelog
[16:59] <mhb> hello yuriy
[16:59] <yuriy> hey mhb
[16:59] <mhb> yuriy: so what's the current Adept plan? v3 or porting first?
[17:00] <yuriy> mhb: i think it's v3 since mornfall is working on it
[17:00] <yuriy> how do i identify myself so dch et al put in the right email address automatically?
[17:03] <mhb>        DEBEMAIL, EMAIL, DEBFULLNAME, NAME
[17:04] <mhb> man debchange is also a good way to find it out
[17:04] <mhb> I'm too lazy to shout RTFM at you, so I RTFMed it for you :o)
[17:08] <yuriy> mornfall: i had to change ${KDE4_INCLUDE_DIRS} to ${KDE4_INCLUDES}
[17:08] <yuriy> thanks mhb :D
[17:12] <yuriy> mornfall: should it be runable without root? (doesn't for me)
[17:12] <yuriy> and argh i'm getting a deadlock when running as root with this too
[17:13] <mornfall> yuriy: Should.
[17:13] <mornfall> yuriy: But you first need to run update-apt-xapian-index (from apt-xapian-index package).
[17:13] <yuriy> ah right, that
[17:14] <mornfall> I shall fix that in due time.
[17:19] <nixternal> mornin'
[17:19] <nixternal> yuriy: export DEBEMAIL=your_gpg_key_email  <- ~/.bashrc
[17:20] <nixternal> that is the only one you need for debuild/dpkg-buildpackage to work
[17:20] <yuriy> nixternal: yep, done, though too late
[17:22] <nixternal> groovy
[17:22] <nixternal> who wants to go take a math placement exam for me?
[17:22] <nixternal> mhb: you would be the perfect candidate I think
[17:22] <nixternal> it has been so long since I did any "real" math
[17:43] <mornfall> yuriy: Does it run now?
[18:11] <Riddell> Lure: kde 3 apps should continue to use ~/.kde
[18:16] <yuriy> mornfall: yep (though not as root)
[18:17] <yuriy> aw too bad the new extendable list is nowhere near a dropin replacement
[18:18] <yuriy> mornfall: i see you've gone from some random inline methods to ditching the cpp file altogether
[18:20] <yuriy> ok libxapian 1.0.5 is in ppa
[18:38] <mhb> nixternal: how hard is it?
[18:52] <rivo> hi, I'm creating a remastered livecd based on kubuntu gutsy and I'm wondering if there's any way of fixing the no-permissions-to-mount-partitions bug?
[19:07] <nivek> Rivo: Just a shot in the dark, but is this what you want? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions
[19:13] <rivo> nivek: I might well be wrong (haven't tried it), but won't manually mounted partitions cause problems with the installer when installer wants to change/format the partitions? or will it automatically unmount them?
[19:14] <nivek> rivo: Possibly... I'm not sure how that works. If it does automatically unmount them, that would make sense. I'm not quite as knowledgeable about it as I'd like to be. I just know that's how I've always mounted partitions.
[19:15] <rivo> ok, thanks anyway
[22:15] <mhb> stille Nacht...
[22:20] <mhb> anyone awake?
[22:20] <mhb> or is today not January 2nd?
[22:27] <Lure_> hi mhb
[22:27] <Lure_> just getting into bed...
[22:27] <nivek> I'm here. I doubt I'm much help to you as far as development goes, but I can carry a conversation. :P
[22:28] <mhb> Lure_: am I going crazy or is there a meeting today?
[22:29] <mhb> nivek: it's not that silent 30 minutes before a meeting.
[22:30]  * wolfger makes some noise
[22:30] <nivek> Today is indeed January 2nd, but I dunno what timezone 23:00 is in. It's only 4:30 in the afternoon form e.
[22:30] <nivek> *for me.
[22:31] <Lure_> mhb: I though it was last Saturday, so it should be next Wed, right?
[22:31] <Lure_> mhb: every 2nd week
[22:31]  * Lure_ looses time quickly...
[22:31] <mhb> topic says 2nd January
[22:32] <mhb> #ubuntu-meeting says so too, like my calendar does
[22:32] <Lure_> right, so it is 23:00 UTC
[22:32] <Lure_> you are right, last meeting was two weeks ago
[22:32]  * Lure_ is sick for more than a week now...
[22:33] <nixternal> my computer is nice and cool once again
[22:33] <mhb> Lure_: aww, too bad.
[22:33] <mhb> get well soon
[22:33] <Lure_> mhb: I am almost good now, but was bad over holidays...
[22:33] <nixternal> Lure_: get well soon... I was sick the week before and the week during christmas, so I know the feeling
[22:34] <Lure_> mhb: yep, even bot confirms we have meeting at midnight/CET
[22:34] <Lure_> so in 25 minutes
[22:34]  * Lure_ checks agenda
[23:00] <nosrednaekim> is the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting?
[23:00] <fdoving> the topic says so.
[23:00] <mhb> where else?
[23:00] <mhb> Riddell: shall we get started?
[23:01] <mhb> (is Riddell coming?)
[23:01] <allee> hmm, anyone still awake? :)
[23:02] <yuriy> this must be too US-friendly for him
[23:02] <nosrednaekim> heh
[23:04] <Riddell> kwwii about?
[23:05] <Riddell> nixternal?
[23:11] <Lure> any kubuntu council member around? nixternal, Tonio_, kwwii ?
[23:12] <nixternal> I am in there now Lure
[23:13] <Lure> nixternal: meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, we need to vote on membership
[23:33] <mhb> on a side note, compiz and KDE4 desktops plasmoid still hate each other
[23:36] <mhb> on a side side note, it seems compiz enables the KDE4 "panel" to have transparent border, which is cool (kwin4 composite does that too).
[23:36] <nosrednaekim> hmmm so it checks for a compositing WM?
[23:37] <mhb> perhaps
[23:37] <mhb> or magic
[23:37] <nosrednaekim> yeah.... aseigo is a magician.
[23:41] <mhb> did we lose Riddell in the process?
[23:53]  * mhb falls asleep, good night
[23:53] <mhb> and congratulations yuriy
[23:54] <nixternal> k'nite mhb