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| kraut | moin | 08:05 |
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| === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Edubuntu meeting Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | ||
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| === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | ||
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| Lure_ | @schedule Ljubljana | 22:33 |
| ubotu | Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 03 Jan 00:00: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 22:33 |
| === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | ||
| === Lure_ is now known as Lure | ||
| mhb | good evening | 23:02 |
| nosrednaekim | good evening... | 23:02 |
| allee | hi | 23:02 |
| Riddell | b hi | 23:02 |
| Riddell | anyone here for a meeting? | 23:02 |
| mhb | we sure are | 23:03 |
| * seele waves | 23:03 | |
| Riddell | any memberships? | 23:03 |
| Riddell | yuriy? | 23:03 |
| yuriy | hi | 23:03 |
| Riddell | yuriy: want to be a member? | 23:04 |
| yuriy | Riddell: yup | 23:04 |
| * Lure is tired, so can spare only half an hour or so | 23:05 | |
| Riddell | yuriy: could you introduce yourself? | 23:05 |
| yuriy | Hi, I'm Yuriy Kozlov | 23:05 |
| yuriy | wiki page here: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/YuriyKozlov | 23:05 |
| yuriy | I've been hanging around here for almost 2 years | 23:06 |
| Riddell | yuriy: tell us what you do | 23:06 |
| yuriy | and going on occasional bug triaging spurts | 23:06 |
| Riddell | and why you love Kubuntu | 23:06 |
| yuriy | including trying to organize a big feisty polishing one last march (https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTeam/Bugs) | 23:06 |
| Lure | I have to say that he does first class bug traige and has done this for long time | 23:06 |
| yuriy | also last march i started the Massachusetts LoCo | 23:07 |
| Lure | I will give my +1 based on just that | 23:07 |
| yuriy | (along with an other guy who shortly quit) | 23:07 |
| yuriy | the team was approved in november | 23:07 |
| yuriy | i did a summer of code project in 2006 | 23:08 |
| yuriy | guidance configuration module for wine (system settings > advanced > windows applications) | 23:08 |
| Riddell | yuriy: what does the loco team do? | 23:08 |
| yuriy | hey maccam94 (he's a member of the loco) | 23:08 |
| Riddell | anyone else here to vouch for yuriy? | 23:08 |
| ryanakca | not that my vote counts, but +1 from me, and you're one of those which I've always thought you were already a member :) | 23:09 |
| yuriy | Riddell: the loco has organized an install fest and plan to have them regularly | 23:09 |
| yuriy | we have monthly meetings and held release parties for feisty and gutsy | 23:09 |
| nosrednaekim | they did some sweet case badges too :) | 23:09 |
| nosrednaekim | I have one | 23:09 |
| yuriy | some members have also done some talks at schools and such | 23:09 |
| yuriy | oh yes and the case badges | 23:10 |
| yuriy | most of this is now organized by doctormo | 23:10 |
| Riddell | well we've met and it was most useful having you at the UDS so +1 from me | 23:10 |
| Riddell | but I don't think we have quorum | 23:10 |
| Riddell | so we'll need to ask another council member to read the logs and vote later | 23:10 |
| Riddell | poke nixternal | 23:10 |
| maccam94 | hey | 23:11 |
| maccam94 | sorry for the delay | 23:11 |
| maccam94 | Yuriy has my support | 23:11 |
| yuriy | and most recently i've been working on portin adept to kde4 (and then mornfall showed up this morning with his own) | 23:11 |
| nixternal | hello | 23:11 |
| nixternal | sorry | 23:11 |
| mhb | yuriy: do you have commit access to his branch? Or do you plan to solve this somehow? | 23:11 |
| nixternal | I was watching Jeff Waugh on blip.tv :) | 23:11 |
| nixternal | yuriy: once again, thought you were a member | 23:12 |
| yuriy | mhb: we haven't quite worked it out yet, but I will try to work on his branch | 23:12 |
| nixternal | +1 on yuriy from me | 23:13 |
| Lure | yuriy: welcome! | 23:13 |
| nixternal | welcome yuriy! congrats! | 23:13 |
| yuriy | thanks!! : ) | 23:14 |
| Riddell | great | 23:14 |
| Riddell | any other memberships? | 23:14 |
| nixternal | sorry for showing up late Riddell..didn't have my irssi notifier running, but I was here :) | 23:14 |
| allee | congrats yuriy! | 23:14 |
| maccam94 | congratulations yuriy! | 23:14 |
| yuriy | thanks allee, maccam94 | 23:14 |
| Riddell | mhb has an agenda item | 23:15 |
| mhb | I do. ** Discuss possibilities of coordinating inter-distribution tasks. | 23:15 |
| mhb | what I mean is - there are several small distros using KDE and either APT directly or APT/RPM and I think we should maintain communication channels with them. | 23:15 |
| nixternal | PCLOS uses Syanptic | 23:16 |
| nosrednaekim | and offer them adept? | 23:16 |
| allee | anyone how has good contacts to those distros? | 23:16 |
| nixternal | dunno what Ark is using these days | 23:16 |
| mhb | for example, we could share a package manager with both PCLinuxOS and Ark Linux theoretically, but we don't. | 23:16 |
| nixternal | I have contacts with PCLOS | 23:16 |
| mhb | PCLOS uses Synaptic, Ark uses Kynaptic (that old KDE frontend). | 23:16 |
| Riddell | poor Ark | 23:17 |
| nixternal | PCLOS also uses apt-rpm if I am not mistaken | 23:17 |
| mhb | yes | 23:17 |
| ryanakca | umm.. I'm probably behind in the news, but what's happening with packagekit (sp?)... isn't that a cross platform frontend? | 23:17 |
| nixternal | ryanakca: they aren't finished with apt for one, and 2 they haven't finished a qt front end | 23:18 |
| yuriy | has ark worked on kynaptic or is it still the same crashy thing? | 23:18 |
| ryanakca | nixternal: ah, ok :) | 23:18 |
| nixternal | probably the same crashy thing | 23:18 |
| nixternal | don't think ark has a very large developer group | 23:18 |
| nixternal | either does PCLOS really | 23:18 |
| mhb | we don't have many paid devs either | 23:19 |
| nixternal | well they have 0 :) | 23:19 |
| nixternal | we at least have 1 | 23:19 |
| nixternal | haha | 23:19 |
| mhb | so I guess it would be for the best if all similar distros had one PM strategy. | 23:19 |
| nixternal | sounds like a decent plan to me, it would allow multiple developers from different distros to collaborate | 23:19 |
| nixternal | word of warning, PCLOS community totally despises anything *buntu | 23:20 |
| Riddell | adept is developed as part of KDE for Debian, so that should be ok :) | 23:20 |
| nixternal | I had a hell of a time trying to get some info from them just because of my email addy and my irc hostmask :) | 23:20 |
| Riddell | if there are people working on adept then it would make sense for them to contact these distros | 23:20 |
| nixternal | very true | 23:20 |
| * Riddell looks at yuriy | 23:21 | |
| * nixternal does too | 23:21 | |
| nixternal | hehe | 23:21 |
| nixternal | I can talk to devnet from PCLOS to see if he can guide me, or be my bridge over troubled waters | 23:21 |
| mhb | right, ask about what they would expect and if they have anything against Adept other than we have against it | 23:21 |
| nixternal | I know PCLOS is pretty set on Synaptic until the Qt frontend for PK is complete | 23:21 |
| mhb | and what their long term strategy w.r.t package management is | 23:21 |
| mhb | whether they considered PackageKit or not, etc. | 23:22 |
| mhb | nixternal: interesting | 23:22 |
| nixternal | mhb: I am fairly certain that PCLOS is going PK | 23:22 |
| nixternal | let me see if devnet is online right now | 23:22 |
| allee | nixternal: anyone from PCLOS working/helping with PK qt frontend/apt backend? | 23:22 |
| nixternal | damn, he went offline 12 minutes ago | 23:22 |
| nixternal | allee: I don't know if they are to be honest | 23:23 |
| * imbrandon returns | 23:23 | |
| nixternal | I haven't heard much from the PK/Qt frontend either for a bit | 23:23 |
| Riddell | nixternal: fancy asking ark linux if they have any thoughts too? | 23:23 |
| nixternal | ya, we have a local dev here in Chicago I can speak with | 23:23 |
| allee | anyone working on this at all? Is there real interest and momentum behind PK? | 23:23 |
| nixternal | allee: there is/was a fairly large push for PK, but it has been silent news wise for some time | 23:24 |
| nixternal | I know Foresight is using PK right now | 23:24 |
| Riddell | allee: yes, it's pretty active generally | 23:24 |
| nixternal | as for other distros, I am not to sure | 23:24 |
| Riddell | but the apt backend is lacking | 23:24 |
| imbrandon | is it python ? | 23:24 |
| Riddell | imbrandon: the apt backend is a mix | 23:24 |
| imbrandon | no no i mean PK | 23:25 |
| Riddell | that's what I was meaning too | 23:25 |
| * imbrandon has been tinkering with a qt4 python app for apt with mvo a bit | 23:26 | |
| imbrandon | but i doubt it would be ready for hardy | 23:26 |
| Riddell | imbrandon: do have a go at fixing the apt PK backend then :) | 23:26 |
| imbrandon | useing apt-python | 23:26 |
| jcastro | PK discussion at UDS was definately "hardy+1" | 23:26 |
| imbrandon | Riddell: yea thats what i was getting at | 23:26 |
| imbrandon | :) | 23:27 |
| mhb | jcastro: definitely not later than hardy+1 or definitely exactly at hardy+1? | 23:27 |
| mhb | err, s/later/earlier | 23:27 |
| Riddell | "not hardy" | 23:27 |
| jcastro | mhb: what riddell said | 23:27 |
| mhb | okay. | 23:27 |
| imbrandon | Riddell: do we have any PK contacts ? | 23:28 |
| allee | so feeling is adept-qt4 or PK is the future? | 23:28 |
| Riddell | allee: anything that works :) | 23:28 |
| allee | lol ;) | 23:28 |
| Riddell | imbrandon: #packagekit | 23:28 |
| imbrandon | Riddell: killer | 23:28 |
| imbrandon | hehe dont say "anything that works" because my little python qt4 app "works" but i wouldent put it to wide use yet hehehe | 23:29 |
| * imbrandon stops | 23:29 | |
| Riddell | any other business? | 23:29 |
| mhb | the permanent topics | 23:29 |
| mhb | perhaps | 23:29 |
| nosrednaekim | i've been working a bit on the easy compiz manager for kde3, are totally forgetting about anything kde3? | 23:30 |
| nosrednaekim | *are we | 23:30 |
| Riddell | nosrednaekim: I'd recommend coding anything in qt 4, that way it can be used for both | 23:30 |
| Lure | Riddell: do we care about comiz for kde4? | 23:30 |
| Riddell | nosrednaekim: is that based on mhb's work? | 23:30 |
| nosrednaekim | Riddell: yeah | 23:30 |
| Riddell | Lure: a bit. it'll always be more powerful than kwin for the silly things | 23:31 |
| nosrednaekim | Lure: thats also what I was wondering. | 23:31 |
| maccam94 | kde4 has it's own compositing | 23:31 |
| maccam94 | hmm | 23:31 |
| Riddell | the major bling lovers will always prefer compiz | 23:31 |
| Riddell | nosrednaekim: that's good to hear though, do let us know if you need any help | 23:32 |
| maccam94 | true | 23:32 |
| nosrednaekim | ok.. so i'll keep working on that. I just have to figure out how exactly to get compiz to be the default WM and let compiz know that kwin is backup. | 23:32 |
| Riddell | nosrednaekim: set KDEWM | 23:32 |
| nosrednaekim | yeah, but then what does it fall back to? | 23:32 |
| Lure | Riddell: but the delta between kwin-kde4 and compiz is more or less just stuff that is not really useful, but more of showcase/demo | 23:32 |
| maccam94 | Riddell: if people want KDE4 though, we should see if there are settings we should choose for a standard KDE4 installation, as well as maybe work with KDE devs on features we might like to see | 23:33 |
| mhb | any news on the KDE4 Hardy CDs? | 23:34 |
| nixternal | speaking of KDE4, Riddell the packages are confusing as hell to me | 23:36 |
| allee | nixternal: ?? | 23:37 |
| nixternal | they are a mess with where things get installed to | 23:37 |
| nixternal | are we still installing everything to usr/lib/kde4 or are some things going into usr/bin and such now | 23:38 |
| nixternal | dolphin-kde4 gets installed to usr/bin for example | 23:38 |
| allee | sounds like the pkgs need to be rebased on the debian ones | 23:38 |
| nixternal | ya, just started doing that...debian doesn't install to a separate directory anymore, they install side-by-side | 23:39 |
| mhb | do we have any user feedback on that KDE4 transition idea? | 23:41 |
| mhb | after all, user feedback is a permanent topic | 23:42 |
| nosrednaekim | kde4 transition idea? | 23:42 |
| allee | nosrednaekim: making sure the kde4 version of an app picks up the kde3 settings corrently (or converts is appropriately) | 23:43 |
| nixternal | mhb: typical users are fine with it, there are the select few who are upset about our drop of LTS...even though most typically upgrade every 5 minutes anyways <- jcastro you like that :p | 23:43 |
| nosrednaekim | I haven't noticed any regressions between kde3 apps and kde4 ones. | 23:44 |
| nosrednaekim | vice versa though.. I have | 23:45 |
| nosrednaekim | (in settings being kept) | 23:45 |
| seele | speaking of users, are there any config dialogs or apps that could use an interface review? or any functions or workflows users are complaining about? | 23:46 |
| nixternal | seele: KHelpCenter :p | 23:46 |
| * nixternal ducks | 23:46 | |
| seele | ew | 23:46 |
| nixternal | haha | 23:46 |
| seele | hehe | 23:46 |
| nixternal | we need to look at a "rework" of KHelpCenter for 4.1 inclusion possibly | 23:47 |
| seele | yeah.. the content needs worked on too | 23:47 |
| nixternal | because we should be able to start working on documentation shortly | 23:47 |
| seele | there is a lot "missing" | 23:47 |
| sahin_h | I'm speeking as a user: kubutu-desktop like meta package will be available for kde4? | 23:47 |
| nixternal | everything should be missing...nobody responded to our call for documentation (our being Phil and I) | 23:47 |
| nixternal | sahin_h: you can count on it | 23:48 |
| * allee wonders if it's not easier to make kde docs qt assistant friendly instead of fighting with khelpcenter | 23:48 | |
| seele | no, old kde files havnet been maintained in general | 23:48 |
| sahin_h | nixternal: thanks | 23:48 |
| seele | or point to a website instead of just providing it in the help system | 23:48 |
| nixternal | allee: I have been playing with a simple Qt help app that can parse .xml/.docbook and what not | 23:48 |
| nixternal | sounds feasible to me | 23:48 |
| nixternal | another idea about 6 months ago was Okular | 23:49 |
| nixternal | but that would make a ToC kind of difficult to create | 23:49 |
| allee | nixternal: since I saw how easy and reliable assistant indexing works I'm a fan of it. (khelpcenter indexing never worked here ;) | 23:49 |
| * mhb wonders how Windows, OS X handles that | 23:50 | |
| nixternal | khc indexing relied on a broken htdig | 23:50 |
| mhb | that == documentation center | 23:50 |
| nixternal | docbook | 23:50 |
| nixternal | at least I know windows uses docbook -> chm conversion for their help | 23:50 |
| fdoving | that "bug" with htdig beeing broken have like 100 dupes. | 23:50 |
| nixternal | that type of help system, aka topic based help, is what we are trying to move towards | 23:50 |
| fdoving | so people actually try to read docs. | 23:50 |
| nixternal | fdoving: they better | 23:51 |
| seele | they do | 23:51 |
| nixternal | otherwise my job is useless | 23:51 |
| seele | they'll use it more than once if the documentation is good | 23:51 |
| nixternal | I think the amount of bug report concerning typos shows there are a lot of people reading the help docs | 23:51 |
| fdoving | nowdays everything needs to be searchable. especially docs. | 23:51 |
| nixternal | yup | 23:51 |
| fdoving | so that's essential. | 23:52 |
| nixternal | maybe I will make that my project for KDE 4 | 23:52 |
| nixternal | Windows Vista help is totally sweet I might say | 23:52 |
| allee | I vaguely rememeber qt 4.4 has introduces another help/doc system | 23:52 |
| nixternal | you have the option to search help locally and via the www | 23:52 |
| nixternal | allee: I will research that | 23:52 |
| seele | what documentation does it search on the web? | 23:52 |
| seele | microsoft documents or general web pages? | 23:52 |
| nixternal | seele: microsoft docs in msdn and what not | 23:52 |
| seele | ah | 23:52 |
| nixternal | ya, nothing off hand | 23:52 |
| nixternal | it is all controlled documentation | 23:53 |
| nixternal | one thing I know project mallard people talked about was cross-communications with a wiki page, which is fine, however anyone can edit a wiki | 23:53 |
| nixternal | would be cool to allow wiki searching, but with a warning, as well as forums searching, but with a warning | 23:54 |
| nixternal | so a help center with a pluggable backend for stuff like forums and wiki might be something to think about as well | 23:54 |
| seele | what do people usually use to create the docbook entries? or do they convert from xml? | 23:55 |
| nixternal | docbook is xml | 23:55 |
| nixternal | or is a DTD for xml | 23:56 |
| seele | ah ok | 23:56 |
| seele | shows you how much documentation i do :P | 23:56 |
| nixternal | plain old text, use meinproc to convert to html if necessary | 23:56 |
| nixternal | but khc reads/parses docbook | 23:56 |
| nixternal | I love documentation, been doing it for a long time | 23:56 |
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