=== asac__ is now known as asac === asac_ is now known as asac === asac_ is now known as asac === bigon is now known as bigon` === asac_ is now known as asac [08:05] moin === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Edubuntu meeting Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development === Gunirus is now known as uselessnerd === uselessnerd is now known as Gunirus === \sh_away is now known as \sh === \sh is now known as \sh_away === allee_ is now known as allee === \sh_away is now known as \sh === rexy is now known as rexy_ === bigon` is now known as bigon [22:33] @schedule Ljubljana [22:33] Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 03 Jan 00:00: Kubuntu Developers | 09 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development === Lure_ is now known as Lure [23:02] good evening [23:02] good evening... [23:02] hi [23:02] b hi [23:02] anyone here for a meeting? [23:03] we sure are [23:03] * seele waves [23:03] any memberships? [23:03] yuriy? [23:03] hi [23:04] yuriy: want to be a member? [23:04] Riddell: yup [23:05] * Lure is tired, so can spare only half an hour or so [23:05] yuriy: could you introduce yourself? [23:05] Hi, I'm Yuriy Kozlov [23:05] wiki page here: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/YuriyKozlov [23:06] I've been hanging around here for almost 2 years [23:06] yuriy: tell us what you do [23:06] and going on occasional bug triaging spurts [23:06] and why you love Kubuntu [23:06] including trying to organize a big feisty polishing one last march (https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTeam/Bugs) [23:06] I have to say that he does first class bug traige and has done this for long time [23:07] also last march i started the Massachusetts LoCo [23:07] I will give my +1 based on just that [23:07] (along with an other guy who shortly quit) [23:07] the team was approved in november [23:08] i did a summer of code project in 2006 [23:08] guidance configuration module for wine (system settings > advanced > windows applications) [23:08] yuriy: what does the loco team do? [23:08] hey maccam94 (he's a member of the loco) [23:08] anyone else here to vouch for yuriy? [23:09] not that my vote counts, but +1 from me, and you're one of those which I've always thought you were already a member :) [23:09] Riddell: the loco has organized an install fest and plan to have them regularly [23:09] we have monthly meetings and held release parties for feisty and gutsy [23:09] they did some sweet case badges too :) [23:09] I have one [23:09] some members have also done some talks at schools and such [23:10] oh yes and the case badges [23:10] most of this is now organized by doctormo [23:10] well we've met and it was most useful having you at the UDS so +1 from me [23:10] but I don't think we have quorum [23:10] so we'll need to ask another council member to read the logs and vote later [23:10] poke nixternal [23:11] hey [23:11] sorry for the delay [23:11] Yuriy has my support [23:11] and most recently i've been working on portin adept to kde4 (and then mornfall showed up this morning with his own) [23:11] hello [23:11] sorry [23:11] yuriy: do you have commit access to his branch? Or do you plan to solve this somehow? [23:11] I was watching Jeff Waugh on blip.tv :) [23:12] yuriy: once again, thought you were a member [23:12] mhb: we haven't quite worked it out yet, but I will try to work on his branch [23:13] +1 on yuriy from me [23:13] yuriy: welcome! [23:13] welcome yuriy! congrats! [23:14] thanks!! : ) [23:14] great [23:14] any other memberships? [23:14] sorry for showing up late Riddell..didn't have my irssi notifier running, but I was here :) [23:14] congrats yuriy! [23:14] congratulations yuriy! [23:14] thanks allee, maccam94 [23:15] mhb has an agenda item [23:15] I do. ** Discuss possibilities of coordinating inter-distribution tasks. [23:15] what I mean is - there are several small distros using KDE and either APT directly or APT/RPM and I think we should maintain communication channels with them. [23:16] PCLOS uses Syanptic [23:16] and offer them adept? [23:16] anyone how has good contacts to those distros? [23:16] dunno what Ark is using these days [23:16] for example, we could share a package manager with both PCLinuxOS and Ark Linux theoretically, but we don't. [23:16] I have contacts with PCLOS [23:16] PCLOS uses Synaptic, Ark uses Kynaptic (that old KDE frontend). [23:17] poor Ark [23:17] PCLOS also uses apt-rpm if I am not mistaken [23:17] yes [23:17] umm.. I'm probably behind in the news, but what's happening with packagekit (sp?)... isn't that a cross platform frontend? [23:18] ryanakca: they aren't finished with apt for one, and 2 they haven't finished a qt front end [23:18] has ark worked on kynaptic or is it still the same crashy thing? [23:18] nixternal: ah, ok :) [23:18] probably the same crashy thing [23:18] don't think ark has a very large developer group [23:18] either does PCLOS really [23:19] we don't have many paid devs either [23:19] well they have 0 :) [23:19] we at least have 1 [23:19] haha [23:19] so I guess it would be for the best if all similar distros had one PM strategy. [23:19] sounds like a decent plan to me, it would allow multiple developers from different distros to collaborate [23:20] word of warning, PCLOS community totally despises anything *buntu [23:20] adept is developed as part of KDE for Debian, so that should be ok :) [23:20] I had a hell of a time trying to get some info from them just because of my email addy and my irc hostmask :) [23:20] if there are people working on adept then it would make sense for them to contact these distros [23:20] very true [23:21] * Riddell looks at yuriy [23:21] * nixternal does too [23:21] hehe [23:21] I can talk to devnet from PCLOS to see if he can guide me, or be my bridge over troubled waters [23:21] right, ask about what they would expect and if they have anything against Adept other than we have against it [23:21] I know PCLOS is pretty set on Synaptic until the Qt frontend for PK is complete [23:21] and what their long term strategy w.r.t package management is [23:22] whether they considered PackageKit or not, etc. [23:22] nixternal: interesting [23:22] mhb: I am fairly certain that PCLOS is going PK [23:22] let me see if devnet is online right now [23:22] nixternal: anyone from PCLOS working/helping with PK qt frontend/apt backend? [23:22] damn, he went offline 12 minutes ago [23:23] allee: I don't know if they are to be honest [23:23] * imbrandon returns [23:23] I haven't heard much from the PK/Qt frontend either for a bit [23:23] nixternal: fancy asking ark linux if they have any thoughts too? [23:23] ya, we have a local dev here in Chicago I can speak with [23:23] anyone working on this at all? Is there real interest and momentum behind PK? [23:24] allee: there is/was a fairly large push for PK, but it has been silent news wise for some time [23:24] I know Foresight is using PK right now [23:24] allee: yes, it's pretty active generally [23:24] as for other distros, I am not to sure [23:24] but the apt backend is lacking [23:24] is it python ? [23:24] imbrandon: the apt backend is a mix [23:25] no no i mean PK [23:25] that's what I was meaning too [23:26] * imbrandon has been tinkering with a qt4 python app for apt with mvo a bit [23:26] but i doubt it would be ready for hardy [23:26] imbrandon: do have a go at fixing the apt PK backend then :) [23:26] useing apt-python [23:26] PK discussion at UDS was definately "hardy+1" [23:26] Riddell: yea thats what i was getting at [23:27] :) [23:27] jcastro: definitely not later than hardy+1 or definitely exactly at hardy+1? [23:27] err, s/later/earlier [23:27] "not hardy" [23:27] mhb: what riddell said [23:27] okay. [23:28] Riddell: do we have any PK contacts ? [23:28] so feeling is adept-qt4 or PK is the future? [23:28] allee: anything that works :) [23:28] lol ;) [23:28] imbrandon: #packagekit [23:28] Riddell: killer [23:29] hehe dont say "anything that works" because my little python qt4 app "works" but i wouldent put it to wide use yet hehehe [23:29] * imbrandon stops [23:29] any other business? [23:29] the permanent topics [23:29] perhaps [23:30] i've been working a bit on the easy compiz manager for kde3, are totally forgetting about anything kde3? [23:30] *are we [23:30] nosrednaekim: I'd recommend coding anything in qt 4, that way it can be used for both [23:30] Riddell: do we care about comiz for kde4? [23:30] nosrednaekim: is that based on mhb's work? [23:30] Riddell: yeah [23:31] Lure: a bit. it'll always be more powerful than kwin for the silly things [23:31] Lure: thats also what I was wondering. [23:31] kde4 has it's own compositing [23:31] hmm [23:31] the major bling lovers will always prefer compiz [23:32] nosrednaekim: that's good to hear though, do let us know if you need any help [23:32] true [23:32] ok.. so i'll keep working on that. I just have to figure out how exactly to get compiz to be the default WM and let compiz know that kwin is backup. [23:32] nosrednaekim: set KDEWM [23:32] yeah, but then what does it fall back to? [23:32] Riddell: but the delta between kwin-kde4 and compiz is more or less just stuff that is not really useful, but more of showcase/demo [23:33] Riddell: if people want KDE4 though, we should see if there are settings we should choose for a standard KDE4 installation, as well as maybe work with KDE devs on features we might like to see [23:34] any news on the KDE4 Hardy CDs? [23:36] speaking of KDE4, Riddell the packages are confusing as hell to me [23:37] nixternal: ?? [23:37] they are a mess with where things get installed to [23:38] are we still installing everything to usr/lib/kde4 or are some things going into usr/bin and such now [23:38] dolphin-kde4 gets installed to usr/bin for example [23:38] sounds like the pkgs need to be rebased on the debian ones [23:39] ya, just started doing that...debian doesn't install to a separate directory anymore, they install side-by-side [23:41] do we have any user feedback on that KDE4 transition idea? [23:42] after all, user feedback is a permanent topic [23:42] kde4 transition idea? [23:43] nosrednaekim: making sure the kde4 version of an app picks up the kde3 settings corrently (or converts is appropriately) [23:43] mhb: typical users are fine with it, there are the select few who are upset about our drop of LTS...even though most typically upgrade every 5 minutes anyways <- jcastro you like that :p [23:44] I haven't noticed any regressions between kde3 apps and kde4 ones. [23:45] vice versa though.. I have [23:45] (in settings being kept) [23:46] speaking of users, are there any config dialogs or apps that could use an interface review? or any functions or workflows users are complaining about? [23:46] seele: KHelpCenter :p [23:46] * nixternal ducks [23:46] ew [23:46] haha [23:46] hehe [23:47] we need to look at a "rework" of KHelpCenter for 4.1 inclusion possibly [23:47] yeah.. the content needs worked on too [23:47] because we should be able to start working on documentation shortly [23:47] there is a lot "missing" [23:47] I'm speeking as a user: kubutu-desktop like meta package will be available for kde4? [23:47] everything should be missing...nobody responded to our call for documentation (our being Phil and I) [23:48] sahin_h: you can count on it [23:48] * allee wonders if it's not easier to make kde docs qt assistant friendly instead of fighting with khelpcenter [23:48] no, old kde files havnet been maintained in general [23:48] nixternal: thanks [23:48] or point to a website instead of just providing it in the help system [23:48] allee: I have been playing with a simple Qt help app that can parse .xml/.docbook and what not [23:48] sounds feasible to me [23:49] another idea about 6 months ago was Okular [23:49] but that would make a ToC kind of difficult to create [23:49] nixternal: since I saw how easy and reliable assistant indexing works I'm a fan of it. (khelpcenter indexing never worked here ;) [23:50] * mhb wonders how Windows, OS X handles that [23:50] khc indexing relied on a broken htdig [23:50] that == documentation center [23:50] docbook [23:50] at least I know windows uses docbook -> chm conversion for their help [23:50] that "bug" with htdig beeing broken have like 100 dupes. [23:50] that type of help system, aka topic based help, is what we are trying to move towards [23:50] so people actually try to read docs. [23:51] fdoving: they better [23:51] they do [23:51] otherwise my job is useless [23:51] they'll use it more than once if the documentation is good [23:51] I think the amount of bug report concerning typos shows there are a lot of people reading the help docs [23:51] nowdays everything needs to be searchable. especially docs. [23:51] yup [23:52] so that's essential. [23:52] maybe I will make that my project for KDE 4 [23:52] Windows Vista help is totally sweet I might say [23:52] I vaguely rememeber qt 4.4 has introduces another help/doc system [23:52] you have the option to search help locally and via the www [23:52] allee: I will research that [23:52] what documentation does it search on the web? [23:52] microsoft documents or general web pages? [23:52] seele: microsoft docs in msdn and what not [23:52] ah [23:52] ya, nothing off hand [23:53] it is all controlled documentation [23:53] one thing I know project mallard people talked about was cross-communications with a wiki page, which is fine, however anyone can edit a wiki [23:54] would be cool to allow wiki searching, but with a warning, as well as forums searching, but with a warning [23:54] so a help center with a pluggable backend for stuff like forums and wiki might be something to think about as well [23:55] what do people usually use to create the docbook entries? or do they convert from xml? [23:55] docbook is xml [23:56] or is a DTD for xml [23:56] ah ok [23:56] shows you how much documentation i do :P [23:56] plain old text, use meinproc to convert to html if necessary [23:56] but khc reads/parses docbook [23:56] I love documentation, been doing it for a long time