[00:33] <Kmos> Someone knows how to put this two lines working wish dash.. it has bashism
[00:33] <Kmos> 	$(INSTALL_FILE) objmon/talk/[^a]* $(DESTDIR)/var/games/mordor/sample/objmon/talk/
[00:33] <Kmos> 	$(INSTALL_FILE) objmon/[^dt]* $(DESTDIR)/var/games/mordor/sample/objmon/
[00:34] <Kmos> the [^a] and [^dt^]
[00:34] <Kmos> [^dt]*
[00:34] <Kmos> filenames that start with "a" and "dt", right ?
[00:35] <StevenK> I think it's the other way around
[00:35] <StevenK> Filenames that *don't* start with 'a' or 'dt'
[00:35] <Fujitsu> ^ inverts the check.
[00:35] <ion_> d or t, not dt
[00:36] <Kmos> ah ok
[00:36] <Kmos> there is some way to do that reg expression in dash ?
[00:36] <StevenK> grep
[00:37] <StevenK> And it's a bit ... special
[00:37] <Fujitsu> I thought I'd seen some of those just replacing ^ with ! and that working, but my memory of that is a bit foggy.
[00:38] <StevenK> You're less than 20, your memory isn't allowed to be foggy
[00:38] <Kmos> hehe
[00:38] <Kmos> thanks for the help
[00:40]  * StevenK kicks filterdiff
[00:40] <StevenK> Please filter stuff, kthxbye
[00:43] <lifeless> StevenK: lol
[00:45]  * Fujitsu lowers some clouds onto StevenK.
[00:46] <StevenK> On the other hand, I have plenty of reasons why my memory should be foggy
[00:47] <StevenK> You'd think filterdiff -x '.svn' diff > diff.1 would just DTRT
[00:48] <cyberix> Please give me any feedback on my package malbolge ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge )
[00:48] <cyberix> I want to get it really shiny before next Monday.
[01:02] <joumetal> xulrunner bugreport filed.
[01:04] <nenolod> SnackPack, yes
[01:10] <SnackPack> nenolod: what #?
[01:23] <nenolod> SnackPack, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/179031
[01:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 179031 in ia32-libs "lib32/libSDL depends on old libraries and needs to be rebuilt" [Undecided,New]
[01:24] <nenolod> it's a critical bug
[01:24] <nenolod> for people using 32-bit apps in a 64-bit userland
[01:37]  * txwikinger wonders how to patch a cdbs tarball.mk package
[02:13] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:13] <Fujitsu> Hey bddebian.
[02:13] <bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
[02:14] <RAOF> Good $TIMEOFDAY bddebian.
[02:15] <slangasek> on advice of my lawyer, I have no comment on any claims regarding membership in any "gang"
[02:16] <bddebian> Hi RAOF
[02:18] <bddebian> slangasek: Sure you are you elitist DD jerk.. ;-P
[02:18] <Ubulette> isn't MOTU a gang ?
[02:18] <bddebian> Man that's open for a CoC violation :)
[02:19] <Burgundavia> the first rule of MOTU is that you don't talk about MOTU
[02:19] <bddebian> hah
[02:20] <Ubulette> same apply to mafias
[02:21] <bddebian> MOTU == mafia? :)
[02:21]  * RAOF should start charging protection money or features of Miro might get "accidentally" disabled.
[02:21] <slangasek> "elitist DD jerk"? "CoC violation"? what is this, an Overfiend summoning spell?
[02:22] <bddebian> haha :-)
[02:22] <azeem> the second rule of MOTU is that you should ignore lines from bddebian which end with a smiley
[02:22] <bddebian> Where has he been anyway?\
[02:22] <bddebian> Oh ouch..
[02:22] <bddebian> Damn, azeem you won't even let me have any "fun" here? Sheesh
[02:23] <azeem> Overfiend talked in #d for a bit on the weekend
[02:23] <slangasek> he has been in Indiana, and possibly in other places
[02:23] <ion_> Anyone feel like taking a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=hardware-connected? :-) (A program that checks whether given hardware is connected, useful for scripting)
[02:24] <bddebian> Should I feel slighted that I did a lot of work on a Debian package and didn't even get a ChangeLog mention? :0)
[02:24] <slangasek> if feeling slighted makes you happier
[02:25] <slangasek> otherwise, I generally don't advise it
[02:26] <slangasek> ion_: sorry, no time to look at it in detail, but I'm curious - why would you need a package to check for whether hardware is connected, what does this give you that a three-line script to look under /sys does not?
[02:32] <ion_> slangasek: A nicer interface than NIHing the three-line function over and over again. :-)
[02:33] <slangasek> hum, ok
[02:33] <ion_> AFAIK the only remaining issue with the package was that its Vcs-* pointed to a private repository. That has been fixed.
[02:33] <slangasek> I have trouble applying the term "NIH" to anything that trivial
[02:43]  * bddebian starts on build 94 of newpki-client
[02:44] <ion_> slangasek: E.g. hardware-connected -m 8139too is IMHO nicer (and also more efficient) than something like modinfo -F alias 8139too | while read alias; do find /sys/devices -name modalias | while read file; do read line <$file; case "$line" in $alias) echo yes; break; esac; done; done
[02:50] <slangasek> ion_: hum, is that any different than the much shorter find /sys/devices/ -name driver| xargs -n1 readlink | xargs -n1 basename | grep -q 8139too?
[02:51] <SnackPack> I think what he's getting at is he wants to make something like this easier for novice scripters
[02:51] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: ping
[02:51] <slangasek> (though that's inexact, why use basename without also anchoring your grep)
[02:51] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: pong
[02:51] <slangasek> SnackPack: I'm just asking whether there's a difference between those two usages
[02:51] <ion_> slangasek: I don’t think that works when querying whether e.g. something compatible with a certain driver in /usr/share/linux-restricted-modules/2.6.24-2-generic/modules.alias.override/nvidia
[02:52] <SnackPack> slangasek: not sure
[02:53] <ion_> hardware-connected would be handy for picking the newest possible proprietary nVidia driver for your hardware on startup.
[02:58] <slangasek> ok, so for cases where you're trying to search /sys for things that don't match to loaded drivers, sure
[02:59] <nxvl_work> did someone knows if there is a way to chat with the amazon support center?
[03:00] <Hobbsee> ...way offtopic there
[03:02] <StevenK> Gahh!
[03:02] <StevenK> checking for 64bit platform... yes -> disabling GtkHTML2
[03:04] <nxvl_work> Hobbsee: yep, sorry, i'm a little desperate
[03:07] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Niiice.
[03:08] <StevenK> Now I have to link against firefox
[03:09] <Fujitsu> What's wrong with xulrunner?
[03:10] <StevenK> xulrunner and firefox are mutally exclusive, no?
[03:11] <Fujitsu> I thought we were moving to xulrunner-1.9 wherever possible.
[03:11] <StevenK> Which requires porting work
[03:11] <StevenK> (And a 50Kb patch, last time I did it)
[03:36] <persia> mruiz: I'd probably try for a SRU rather than a backport for a FTBFS.  Also, this is a good example why asking the channel generally is preferable.
[03:36] <persia> txwikinger: cdbs-edit-patch helps
[03:36] <txwikinger> hi persia
[03:37] <txwikinger> I am reading up on that.. :(
[03:37] <txwikinger> :D
[03:39] <Fujitsu> Hm, Firefox 3 is looking nice.
[03:39] <LaserJock> persia: hi
[03:39] <persia> hi LaserJock txwikinger
[03:39] <Fujitsu> Particularly with the sane-looking tabs.
[03:41] <StevenK> LaserJock: PONIES!
[03:42]  * Fujitsu wonders why Firefox 3 seems to have gone all strange and now uses proper GTK icons and the like.
[03:44] <StevenK> % grep -c 'warning: ' links2/current
[03:44] <StevenK> 19485
[03:44] <StevenK> *Twitch*
[03:57] <txwikinger> ah works... just need to create the patch correctly :)
[03:59]  * txwikinger needs to get sleep... good night
[04:15] <imbrandon> herm what would be the equiv to self.listWidget_2.addItems(sections['main'][*].keys())
[04:15] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: ^^ oops wrong window
[04:58] <ScottK> I'm back at home, so I can now be reached at this nick again.
[04:59] <ScottK> persia: re your comment about SRU versus backport to fix an FTBFS...  Definitely.
[05:00] <persia> ScottK: Well, it depends.  If the FTBFS was fixed by a new upstream version, I'm not sure it's right.  Needs some investigation and thought.
[05:01] <ScottK> Backports isn't for fixing SRU worthy bugs.  FTBFS would fit in that catagory.  If it's FTBFS, it's not like the SRU has a regression risk.
[05:03] <persia> Hmm...  I usually think in terms of feature stability rather than regression risk, but I suppose you're right.
[05:04] <ScottK> The only place I can think of where a backport would be appropriate is if some other lib that didn't FTBFS needed to be upgraded too to make the new one work.
[05:04] <persia> That would mean backporting the entire rdepends set, no?
[05:05] <ScottK> Yes.
[05:05] <ScottK> Which is unpleasant, but allowable.
[05:05] <ScottK> I'm waiting for my libclamav3 transition to age a bit in Hardy before I give that exact thing a shot.
[05:05] <persia> Good to know.  I thought the backporters team didn't like to update libraries.
[05:05] <ScottK> Don't like to.
[05:06] <ScottK> Sometimes it's the right thing to do.
[05:06] <persia> Ah.  "Don't like to" != "Doesn't".  I understand now.
[05:06] <ScottK> libclamav is a good example.
[05:06] <ScottK> You pretty much have to stay current.
[05:06] <SnackPack> otherwise it screams at you
[05:06] <SnackPack> heheh
[05:07] <persia> From the discussion during the gutsy cycle, I thought upstream was willing to play nicely for future releases.
[05:07] <ScottK> It's not the screaming.  It's eventually no updates and no security fixes.
[05:07] <ion_> You also have to stay current with ion3, or its author switches to a non-free license. Oh, wait. He already did. :-P
[05:07] <persia> ion_: Rather, you need to not include snapshots of ion in a distribution.
[05:08] <ScottK> persia: For clamav, their perspective is they don't understand why you don't just run the current release.
[05:08] <persia> ScottK: They still don't understand releases?  Annoying that.
[05:08] <imbrandon> sounds like adobe
[05:08] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:08] <ScottK> Their view is version < 1.0, so they can do whatever they want.
[05:09] <ScottK> At least with clamav you get source so we can patch all the older releases.
[05:09] <ScottK> Speaking of which ...
[05:09] <persia> Hrm.  Maybe they are saying "don't include it", but that's just non-ideal.
[05:09] <ScottK> imbrandon: Did you ever finish looking at the backport for clamav from gutsy-security to feisty-backports?
[05:10] <imbrandon> ScottK: yes i did, looks ok
[05:10] <ScottK> persia: I think they're more narrowly saying don't whine to us about it.
[05:11] <ScottK> imbrandon: Would you mark it in progress and subscribe the archive then?  Bug #177537
[05:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177537 in clamav "Remote Code Execution" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177537
[05:11] <ScottK> I'd do it, but I haven't built it on Feisty myself.
[05:11] <imbrandon> ahh thought i had
[05:11] <imbrandon> will do
[05:13] <imbrandon> ScottK: hrm
[05:13]  * minghua looks at #176994 and decides to steer away from it...
[05:13] <imbrandon> they are all marked fixed
[05:13] <minghua> LP still doesn't support bug blocking, does it?
[05:14] <persia> minghua: Not yet...
[05:15] <minghua> I don't think there is any package in universe sponsoring queue that I'm familiar enough to help.
[05:15] <ScottK> imbrandon: Thanks.
[05:15] <jcastro> hi guys
[05:16]  * Fujitsu looks at bug #95419, and points minghua to comment annoyedly on it.
[05:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 95419 in malone "Record dependencies between bugs" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95419
[05:16] <Fujitsu> Hey jcastro.
[05:16] <imbrandon> heya jcastro
[05:16] <jcastro> is there a java pro in the house?
[05:16] <persia> minghua: That's sort of the issue.  When the queue is smaller, one of the regular sponsors tends to get the harder ones.  As the queue has seen about 75 submissions processed in the last 24 hours, there's a few left.
[05:17] <persia> jcastro: There's at least a number of amateurs.  What's the issue?
[05:17] <minghua> persia: Right.  But I just got your email asking for sponsoring help...
[05:17] <jcastro> persia: I've got some guys on the netbeans team that want netbeans6 in for hardy
[05:17] <minghua> Fujitsu: Thanks for the bug pointer.
[05:17] <persia> jcastro: OK.  We can do that.
[05:18] <jcastro> persia: from my limited experience I can tell that there will be some issues
[05:18] <jcastro> so I'd like to find someone patient. :D
[05:18] <persia> jcastro: What's the current status?  I remember there being a couple members of that team working on 5.5 for gutsy.  Are they having issues with the update?
[05:18] <jcastro> well, 5.5 was in multiverse
[05:18] <jcastro> but they want it in universe
[05:18] <jcastro> but they have a list of libraries that they uploaded as binaries last time
[05:18] <persia> jcastro: multiverse -> universe is just a matter of dependencies / build-dependencies and licensing.
[05:19] <jcastro> they'd like to do source uploads this time.
[05:19] <Fujitsu> Err, binary uploads aren't possible.
[05:19] <jcastro> they didn't want to maintain a bunch of libs last time
[05:19] <persia> Fujitsu: Well, for Java multiverse, they are, but that's a different issue.
[05:19] <jcastro> so they just did a bunch of .jars in multiverse
[05:19] <Fujitsu> Who let them in last time?
[05:19] <jcastro> but this time around they'd like to do it right
[05:19] <Fujitsu> And why weren't they... educated?
[05:20] <persia> jcastro: Does it work with system libraries?  Last I knew, there were a lot of local patches to libraries in netbeans.
[05:20] <Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
[05:20] <jcastro> Fujitsu: I had a phone conference with them, they just need to be taught.
[05:20] <jcastro> they're not like, dumb
[05:20] <jcastro> they just don't know.
[05:21] <jcastro> persia: yeah, I think there are, but I don't know enough about the subject to know for sure, which is why I was asking
[05:21] <Fujitsu> jcastro: I was also questioning the sponsor.
[05:21] <jcastro> they were planning on doing their first cut at packaging this month
[05:21] <persia> jcastro: who's your contact there?  I'm not deeply familiar with Java packaging, but have a personal interest in NetBeans, and am fairly familiar with our guidelines.
[05:21] <jcastro> so I wanted to see if I could link them up with someone
[05:21] <jcastro> persia: sec, looking it up
[05:23] <jcastro> persia: arseniy kuznetsov, Marek Slama, and Petr Hrebejk
[05:24] <jcastro> http://wiki.netbeans.org/wiki/view/SmallNbForLinuxPackaging
[05:24] <jcastro> these are the libraries they need
[05:24] <persia> jcastro: OK.  I was working with Marek for 5.5 to get the copyright file fixed.  I'll poke over there to see if I can help.  Is there an upgrade bug already?
[05:25] <jcastro> not afaik
[05:25] <jcastro> there's a launchpad page, but it's by a guy I don't know, doesn't appear to be upstream
[05:25] <jcastro> persia: I plan on having another phone conference with them soonish, would if be ok if I brought you onboard for it?
[05:25] <persia> jcastro: LP has an annoying limitation that every upstream has to also be registered as an LP project, so you'll see a lot of that.
[05:26] <persia> jcastro: Depends on time of day and technology, but sure.
[05:26] <jcastro> well, Sun does the conf call so they schedule it around our schedules and such
[05:26] <jcastro> persia: can you shoot me your mail?
[05:41] <imbrandon> dum de dum
[05:42] <imbrandon> jcastro: btw i got in touch with Zonker today
[05:42] <jcastro> imbrandon: and ... ?
[05:43] <imbrandon> i'm gonna be doing a piece on OpenChange and LDAP , soonish
[05:43] <imbrandon> mid feb i think, he is shooting me the details tomarrow
[05:44] <jcastro> imbrandon: dude hot action.
[05:44] <imbrandon> :)
[05:44] <jcastro> I hope he can come to the next UDS or ubuntu live.
[05:44] <jcastro> he always walks around and is like "link me up with interesting people for interviews."
[05:44] <imbrandon> yea, has he been to one since Califorina ?
[05:45] <jcastro> CA was his first one, so he was real shy
[05:45] <imbrandon> yea
[05:45] <jcastro> next time around we'll bounce him around like a cheap doll
[05:45] <imbrandon> i talked to him a little bit, he tried to get me on camera heheh, i let Sebas do it
[05:45] <jcastro> imbrandon: he's a big ohiolinux guy too (one of the planners), so make it to that.
[05:45] <imbrandon> nice
[05:45] <jcastro> though he lives in denver or something
[05:46] <imbrandon> i have 4 planned this year
[05:46] <imbrandon> yea denver
[05:46] <imbrandon> pengicon, UDS, Ubuntu Live and SCALE
[05:46] <imbrandon> penguicon*
[05:46] <imbrandon> i never spell that right
[05:47] <jcastro> scale sounds like fun.
[05:47] <jcastro> imbrandon: I hear jono is keynotting this year
[05:47] <imbrandon> yea, it looked like a blast last year, thus i put it on for this year
[05:47] <imbrandon> he is ? killer
[05:48] <jcastro> one of the planners, Ilan, was at ubuntu live
[05:48] <jcastro> good people
[05:48] <jcastro> make sure you link up with him
[05:48] <imbrandon> he is an penguicon too right ? Ubuntu Rockstars everywhere
[05:48] <imbrandon> s/an/at
[05:49] <jcastro> Ilan? I don't think so.
[05:49] <jcastro> Jono yeah
[05:49] <imbrandon> no jono
[05:49] <imbrandon> yea
[05:49] <jcastro> Mako too
[05:49] <jcastro> and xkcd guy
[05:49] <imbrandon> Ilan, i have heard that name somewhere
[05:49] <jcastro> and dibona and leslie from google
[05:50] <jcastro> you remember leslie right?
[05:50] <imbrandon> leslie!, thats my chick
[05:50] <imbrandon> yup yup
[05:50] <jcastro> word
[05:50] <imbrandon> i have talked to her email a few times, when i was job hunting
[05:50] <imbrandon> since UDS
[05:50] <jcastro> ah
[05:50] <jcastro> I could never work @ google
[05:50] <jcastro> can't handle the math
[05:50] <imbrandon> heh
[05:50] <jcastro> I would last 5 seconds in an interview
[05:51] <imbrandon> i got through 2 of them, then decided not to schedule a 3rd, it was above my league
[05:51] <jcastro> it's ok
[05:51] <jcastro> my friend went through _7_
[05:51] <imbrandon> atleaste what i was interviewing for
[05:51] <imbrandon> wow
[05:52] <jcastro> imbrandon: we should ask zonker if he's coming to penguicon
[05:52] <imbrandon> yea totaly, i bet he is
[05:53] <jcastro> it'd be kickass to have him cover the -mi team's packaging jam
[05:53] <imbrandon> if not he should
[05:53] <jcastro> and have you MOTUs there
[05:53] <imbrandon> yea i posted on my new years resolution about a PackageJam here in KC and 3 people i have never even heard of ( even via the lug ) emailed saying "when?" hehe
[05:53] <imbrandon> so i got to get that done this month
[05:54] <imbrandon> i was like wow there is ubuntu people in KC that arent part of the local lug
[05:54] <imbrandon> i think it will go over well
[05:58] <imbrandon> jcastro: from rumors ( and some of his comics ) i hear the xkcd guy is a Ubunut Fan
[05:58] <imbrandon> Ubuntu*
[05:59] <jcastro> he is
[05:59] <imbrandon> http://www.xkcd.com/364/ is my personal fav ( other than "sudo make me a sandwitch" )
[05:59] <jcastro> those stories are best told over beers though
[05:59] <jcastro> gotta help a neighbor plow his driveway
[05:59] <jcastro> bbl
[05:59] <imbrandon> l8tr
[06:36] <LaserJock> hmm, opensuse 10.3 really improved over the betas
[06:39] <LaserJock> hmm, and they use package deltas for updates
[06:39] <imbrandon> yea they have done that for a long time
[07:09] <persia> Is rmadison terribly slow for anyone else today?
[07:10] <imbrandon> persia: shouldent it run on your local system ?
[07:10] <persia> imbrandon: I thought the r in rmadison was for remote.  For local, I always use apt-cache madison.  My "local" mirror is actually a couple kilometers from here.
[07:11] <imbrandon> err i was thinking rdepends ( as in reverse ) , never mind, its late
[07:12] <persia> imbrandon: Shouldn't it be "early" by now :P
[07:12] <imbrandon> heh yea
[07:12] <imbrandon> im all screwy lately
[07:12] <persia> That's what you get for pretending to be diurnal over the holidays.
[07:12] <imbrandon> figuring out python ALOT better though ( no small thanks to Fujitsu )
[07:13] <minghua> It's only 1 a.m., I'd say late.
[07:13] <imbrandon> :)
[07:13] <minghua> persia: rmadison is reasonably fast here.
[07:13]  * persia doesn't really track differences in north american timezones well
[07:13] <persia> minghua: Maybe just me then.  Thanks.
[07:13] <imbrandon> yea 1am here
[07:13] <imbrandon> 1:13
[07:14]  * minghua knows imbrandon and he are in the same timezone.
[07:14] <imbrandon> minghua: ahh really?
[07:14] <minghua> BTW grammar question, is it "imbrandon and he", or "he and imbrandon", or both are okay?
[07:14] <minghua> imbrandon: Yes, I'm in Houston.
[07:15] <imbrandon> cool
[07:15]  * imbrandon is not the best person to be asking grammar
[07:15] <persia> minghua: both are acceptable, although the former is preferred, as it gives precedent to the other party, so is more polite.
[07:15] <persia> s/precedent/precedence/
[07:16]  * persia decides that upstreams that don't bother with ChangeLog don't get DIF exceptions without someone else investigating it.
[07:31] <nenolod> elkbuntu, i'm sorry if you took my comment the wrong way on #178888; there were some people getting off into topics not directly related to the bug :)
[07:35]  * persia enjoys the use of bug reportsas discussion threads, and considers advocating the complete replacement of mailing lists 
[07:35] <elkbuntu> nenolod, no worries. however please realise that the PC stuff, as annoying as it can be, contributes to the general atmosphere of the community. If we can do anything to equalise the male:female ratio then it will be beneficial in terms of user (and contributor) base.
[07:35] <elkbuntu> nenolod, tbh, caroline's response annoyed me way more than yours anyway
[07:37] <nenolod> elkbuntu, caroline's response is wtf
[07:37] <nenolod> elkbuntu, i think that it's inappropriate for software error messages to use slang in general
[07:37]  * persia points at the wtf application
[07:37] <elkbuntu> nenolod, agreed, and it's even more wtf when you consider her history with ubuntu
[07:38] <nenolod> i think someone reporting it as a "sexist remark" is a little over the top, but that's life
[07:38] <nenolod> if it makes nmap guys stop acting like kids in their code, then more power to them though
[07:38] <elkbuntu> nenolod, it was, however refusing to accept that anyone had an issue with it is wrong
[07:39] <nenolod> due to nmap's messages, a lot of people feel that it's a script kiddie app
[07:39] <nenolod> elkbuntu, yeah
[07:39] <nenolod> elkbuntu, never should somebody talk in literals when describing a group of people ;)
[07:40] <nenolod> persia, yeah. just make a virtual package in ubuntu called "talk-about-random-crap" and replace ubuntu-users list with that
[07:41] <nenolod> with launchpad bugmail it'll be like nothing changed
[07:41] <nenolod> ;)
[07:41] <persia> nenolod: Actually, the use of virtual packages makes sense.  Creating a new bug creates a new mailing list / forum thread.  People can subscribe to the virtual package to subscribe to those items.
[07:42] <persia> The only issue is when the bug gets "closed".  Perhaps when each raised issue has been discussed and resolved, someone closes it.
[07:42] <elkbuntu> persia, yep, and as a plus, it means bugs will actually make it past someone's whinge on a busy conglomerated list
[07:43] <nenolod> this is a great idea
[07:43]  * persia especially likes the possibility of declaring some person's post to be "Invalid".
[07:43] <elkbuntu> however it would become equally unmanagable if you didnt take out the questions like 'how to i find my ip address' or 'how do i add a new user'
[07:43] <minghua> LP should just reuse the malone code and develop a mailing-list-alternative. :-)
[07:43] <persia> elkbuntu: That's what the "Convert to a Question" feature is desiged to support.
[07:43] <Fujitsu> persia: I like that.
[07:44] <Fujitsu> minghua: It's getting mailman support, unfortunately :(
[07:44] <minghua> Fujitsu: Oh.  :-(, too.
[07:44] <nenolod> elkbuntu, i thought #ubuntu was for that
[07:44] <persia> Further, if we could set up a forums-like UI in parallel, we could merge all the forums stuff.  Be nice to see forums workarounds in proper, addressable, bug reports.
[07:44] <elkbuntu> nenolod, no, that's for trolls to scream abuse at ops for banning them from offtopic ;)
[07:44] <nenolod> elkbuntu, that's abus as in "a bus"
[07:45] <nenolod> remember, trolls are illiterate
[07:45] <nenolod> and they go around calling everyone names
[07:45] <elkbuntu> persia, i havent used LP much lately, out of touch with all the new features
[07:45] <persia> elkbuntu: See.  That's another argument for integration.
[07:45] <Fujitsu> elkbuntu: Hahahahahahahaha new features in LP?
[07:46] <nenolod> LP has new features?
[07:46] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, surely something's changed in the past 5 months
[07:46] <nenolod> I thought the build number is generated with rand().
[07:46] <nenolod> :D
[07:47] <nenolod> i wish launchpad was opensource
[07:47] <nenolod> malone is a very nice bugtracker
[07:48] <Fujitsu> Mhm.
[07:50] <nenolod> hmm, actually, really, that malone as a general messaging platform really does make sense
[07:50] <nenolod> now all we need to do is get sabdfl to sign off on it
[07:50] <nenolod> and the rest will just happen ;)
[07:50] <nenolod> this channel scares me sometimes!
[07:50] <Fujitsu> Whenever I'm on ubuntuforums.org, I keep looking for the status column.
[07:51] <nenolod> Fujitsu, to mark posts as invalid?
[07:51] <nenolod> :D
[07:51] <Fujitsu> Yeah, or incomplete.
[07:51] <nenolod> me too, and then i find myself disappointed when there isn't a status column ;p
[07:52] <persia> I'm more interested in avoiding bug reporting to MLs or forums, and integrating everything, rather than the fun of the status column.
[07:53] <minghua> If you don't have mailing list or forum, you need a triaging team constantly dealing with "my system is broken!!!" bug reports.
[07:54] <nenolod> minghua, nono. the idea is to turn the bug tracker into also a forums system and mailing list by using virtual packages and a pretty UI on top
[07:54] <nenolod> ;)
[07:54] <persia> minghua: How is that different from the current situation?
[07:54] <nenolod> yeah, that too
[07:54] <nenolod> i get tons of bugs assigned to ubuntu-audio that are invalid
[07:55] <nenolod> kinda makes me wonder where the users get their drugs from time to time some of the bug reports i have read
[07:55] <nenolod> :P
[07:55] <persia> nenolod: Likely the triagers can't evaluate that.  At least they trim the truly bad before assigning the team.
[07:55] <nenolod> persia, i'm thankful for that
[07:55] <nenolod> :D
[07:55] <minghua> persia: Not really to me.  But the bug triaging team probably see it differently.
[07:56] <nenolod> the bug triaging team is one that takes a lot of abuse i imagine
[07:56] <nenolod> emotional abuse? mental abuse? probably both.
[07:56] <minghua> nenolod: I know.  I sort of like the idea, too.  I was just commenting on persia's "avoiding bug reporting to ML or forums" point.
[07:56] <persia> minghua: Depends.  If the forums moderators and supporters, and the active support people on ubuntu-users@ joined the triagers ranks, I'm not sure it would be all bad.  Plus, ubuntu-bugs@ shouldn't be the bug contact for these virtual packages.
[07:57] <nenolod> launchpad answers is already based on malone anyway AFAIK
[07:57] <imbrandon> wow, someone said "forums" , thats my queue to goto sleep :)
[07:58] <minghua> persia: My gut feeling is that is will be a big change for not much practical gain.
[07:58] <nenolod> minghua, the practical gain would be being able to rate threads ;)
[07:58] <nenolod> "Invalid", or if you really want to confuse someone, "Fix Released"
[07:59] <persia> minghua: I think the gain would be 1) "Convert to a Question", 2) forums workarounds in bug reports to help get towards a solution, 3) everyone working on the same target, 4) no more bugs being forgotten because they were only posted to a mailing list.
[07:59] <imbrandon> rember not all forum activity is bug reports or support issues, alot of social behavure happens there too ( not that i personaly partake, but it does )
[08:00] <nenolod> where as "Invalid" means: "your thread sucks, please fix it and come back later, and "Incomplete" means: please add more detail. this thread is boring.
[08:00] <imbrandon> nenolod: does that mean i get a "TLDR" status on malone ?
[08:00] <minghua> persia: Yeah, I agree being able to convert a discussion thread to something else (question, formal bug report, etc.) is a plus, but I don't see it a big gain.
[08:00] <nenolod> imbrandon, what is TLDR?
[08:01] <imbrandon> nenolod: TOO LONG DIDENT READ, my fav thread anwser
[08:01] <nenolod> imbrandon, yeah probably
[08:01]  * minghua foresees LP status ping-pong.
[08:01] <persia> minghua: I just see lots of duplicate conversations with people missing things between the mailing lists, the forums, and bugs.
[08:01] <nenolod> minghua, launchpad crashing because the thread was too bad?
[08:01] <nenolod> :D
[08:01] <persia> imbrandon: Don't complain about that, or I'll start sending you personal mail :P
[08:01] <imbrandon> heh
[08:02] <nenolod> "I refuse to process this. It's too stupid. throw(Exception)"
[08:02] <Fujitsu> raise TooStupidError
[08:02] <nenolod> yeah
[08:02] <imbrandon> throw(pbkac)
[08:03] <imbrandon> Problem Between Keyboard and Chair
[08:03]  * minghua never gets the PBKAC metaphor.
[08:03] <minghua> Shouldn't the torso be there, instead of the head?
[08:03] <imbrandon> minghua: e.g. an idiot, the person between the keyboard and the chair
[08:04] <minghua> Okay.  Person.
[08:04] <nenolod> there's also ID10T errors
[08:04] <nenolod> ;)
[08:04] <minghua> Cultural differences, I suppose.  Chinese seldom refers a person as a problem.
[08:05] <imbrandon> hehe :)
[08:05] <persia> minghua: Yes.  Difference between redemption and forgiveness.  Blame Peter.
[08:06] <imbrandon> minghua: btw i'm curious now that you said your in the states , why are you here? family? school? job? non_of_my_business? hehe ( not that it matters one bit, just curious )
[08:06] <minghua> imbrandon: School, graduate student at Rice.  But I suppose non_of_your_business too... :-P
[08:07] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:08] <imbrandon> okies yall, i'm falling asleep at the keyboard, gnight
[08:08] <nenolod> whose mruiz?
[08:08]  * persia waits for mdczzbjljk tlaw4
[08:08] <nenolod> i bumped audacious and audacious-plugins in debian, all he needs to do is merge them
[08:08] <nenolod> :s
[08:09] <persia> nenolod: mruiz seems to be active starting in 3-5 hours most days.
[08:09] <nenolod> well
[08:09] <persia> nenolod: You could also merge them, if you like :)  What's the remaining variance?
[08:09] <nenolod> i'm just curious on how he intends to solve the bump requests, as i could do it in just a few minutes ;)
[08:09] <nenolod> persia, our patches are for pulseaudio integration
[08:10] <persia> nenolod: Ah.  Yes.  Can't adopt that.
[08:10] <elkbuntu> nenolod, lamont already made it known how he feels: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nmap/+bug/178888/comments/4
[08:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 178888 in nmap "Please sync nmap 4.50-4 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[08:11] <nenolod> elkbuntu, right, but about 4.50-4, but not about 4.52
[08:11] <persia> nenolod: best not to go too cutting edge vs. Debian for an LTS, unless there's a really good reason.
[08:12] <nenolod> persia, that's how i feel yes. :)
[08:12] <elkbuntu> nenolod, actually, that's about both. i read that he says 4.52 isnt classed as stable yet and he'd prefer to wait, but 4.50-4 is stable and acceptable
[08:12] <nenolod> ah.
[08:12] <nenolod> elkbuntu, well, nmap 4.50-4 does work fairly reliably, and it probably would be good for an LTS
[08:14] <nenolod> persia, the pulseaudio patches in audacious-plugins can be dropped, the pulseaudio patches in audacious must remain
[08:15] <minghua> Wonderful sysvinit versions we have here -- Debian has 2.86.ds1-47, Ubuntu has 2.86.ds1-14.1ubuntu32.
[08:15] <persia> nenolod: Right.  If you're sure about the former, submit a sync bug & subscribe mruiz.  For the latter, someone needs to make a debdiff.
[08:15] <persia> minghua: It's all sorts of special due to upstart
[08:16] <imbrandon> oh wow some of the comments on that bug report are crazy, this is all over "dude" in an error message ?
[08:17] <persia> imbrandon: Ignore the bug.  Find a trivial additional patch, and upload 4.50-4ubuntu1 closing the bug today.  Make it all go away :)
[08:17] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:17] <nenolod> persia, i can make a debdiff
[08:18] <nenolod> persia, i have the debian audacious and ubuntu audacious on my hard drive
[08:18] <nenolod> ;)
[08:18] <persia> nenolod: In that case, just make a merge bug, add an explanation for DIFe, attach the debdiff, and subscribe mruiz & the sponsors.
[08:19] <nenolod> persia, certaintly.
[08:22] <nenolod> persia, do you want the debdiff between 1.4.5-1 or 1.4.4-1ubuntu1 ?
[08:22] <persia> nenolod: debdiff against debian is preferred
[08:26] <nenolod> oh wait
[08:26] <nenolod> no
[08:26] <nenolod> persia, we still need to keep one change in -plugins, but i can handle it ;)
[08:26] <persia> nenolod: Excellent.
[08:28] <warp10> persia: I just uploaded a new version of tennix to fix the errors you reviewed. Now it should be fine. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tennix
[08:29] <persia> warp10: Excellent.  I firmly believe you'll get the best quality package by getting others reviews (you've likely fixed the issues I would find), so I encourage you to seek other reviewers.  If nobody has touched it by next REVU day, and it comes up in my FIFO queue, I'll look at it again.
[08:31]  * Fujitsu really likes the REVU sort order nowadays.
[08:33] <warp10> persia: Ok, sure. I'll try to find someone else reviewing my package. :)
[08:34] <persia> warp10: The best way is just to post an advertisement here reporting the status and asking for reviews one a day or so (choosing different times may help due to reviewers timezones, but try to avoid more than once in each 24 hours).
[08:37] <warp10> persia: Indeed I ask here every day (and no more then once a day). (Un)fortunately Christmas time has gone, and work level is raising again. :)
[08:37] <persia> warp10: Understood.  If you've hit all my points, you're probably getting quite close to an advocation.
[08:38] <warp10> persia: Great! I hope I can work on one or two more packages before FF.
[08:39] <persia> warp10: I strongly recommend working on them in parallel.  Waiting for reviews can be slow, but if you've four or five candidates in queue, they are all likely to get hit together.
[08:39]  * Fujitsu advises fixing bugs rather than working on new packages.
[08:41] <warp10> persia: Well, since it was my first package, I waited for your reviews before starting a new one, to avoid doing the same error multiple times. Now that I catched many issues, I prbably can work on a couple packages togheter
[08:41] <nenolod> oops. i need to redo that debdiff, i left a .rej file in there ;)
[08:51] <Fujitsu> Ng: Please reupload terminator after building with debuild -S -sa. -sa makes it include the .orig.tar.gz.
[08:52] <Ng> Fujitsu: oh, sorry, will do
[08:52] <Ng> I've been trying to make a workflow that uses bzr-builddeb, so I've probably messed up the source builder command
[08:53] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[08:54] <Ng> there's a whole bunch of stuff to learn in about 20 directions atm, but it's a good challenge :)
[08:54] <nenolod> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/+bug/179471
[08:54] <nenolod> ;)
[08:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 179471 in audacious-plugins "Sync audacious 1.4.5-1 and audacious-plugins 1.4.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[08:55] <minghua> nenolod: I think you mean "merge" instead of "sync".
[08:55] <nenolod> it's 3AM :P
[08:55] <persia> nenolod: looks like all the right people are subscribed, but the title & description leave a bit to be desired.
[08:56] <nenolod> persia, what should i add to the changelog?
[08:56] <nenolod> er
[08:56] <nenolod> description
[08:57] <nenolod> (i'll change debian/changelog for the both of them too ;))
[08:57] <persia> nenolod: It oughtn't be a "sync", and it might be nice to describe the ubuntu changes being retained.  Also, since we're past DIF, providing some justification for the DIFe would be good.  I also like to see the Debian changelog, personally.
[08:58] <nenolod> sure
[08:58] <minghua> nenolod: A side issue -- you can delete bad debdiffs you don't want.  In the left pane "Bug attachments", click "edit" of each one.
[08:58] <nenolod> minghua, i didn't know. thanks for the tip. :)
[09:00] <minghua> I know nothing about multimedia stuff, so I can only help on editorial points. :-)
[09:01] <nenolod> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/+bug/179471
[09:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 179471 in audacious-plugins "Merge audacious 1.4.5-1 and audacious-plugins 1.4.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[09:01] <nenolod> how about that description :D
[09:02] <nenolod> some major bugs dating back to 1.3 were fixed, basically is the synopsis ;p
[09:02] <persia> nenolod: That certainly includes everything.  I like short convincing summaries, but I'm lazy :)
[09:05]  * nenolod uploads debdiffs with fixed changelog ;)
[09:09] <nenolod> there. perfected.
[09:09] <nenolod> :P
[09:11] <Ng> Fujitsu: done (although I have to say that I've not yet addressed all of the previous comments - I'm more looking at making sure I'm not wildly off track with pycentral)
[09:12] <Fujitsu> Ng: I'll have a look - I'm fairly good with Python policy.
[09:14] <Ng> cool, thanks :)
[09:16] <nenolod> at any rate
[09:17] <nenolod> i can't do anything about zsnes in amd64 until ia32-libs SDL is fixed :/
[09:18] <nenolod> i have an ugly-yet-valid-and-standards-compliant way to build it on amd64 in debian/rules, but it won't link cause of the ia32-libs problem ;)
[09:18] <persia> nenolod: Have you submitted a patch to ia32-libs yet?
[09:18] <nenolod> persia, i intend to look into that next
[09:18] <nenolod> persia, i was under the impression that ia32-libs was just a collection of binaries though
[09:19] <persia> nenolod: It comes from a source package (like everything else)
[09:19] <nenolod> right. i'll pull it then and see what's up ;)
[09:20] <nenolod> i don't know how i can patch it though ;p
[09:20] <nenolod> ia32-libs_2.2ubuntu2.tar.gz  (433.8 MiB)
[09:20] <nenolod> fantastic
[09:20] <nenolod> :D
[09:21] <persia> nenolod: It's not the biggest, but it's a definite competitor.
[09:21] <nenolod> persia, is it all of the sources for the libs?
[09:21] <persia> nenolod: I suspect so.  I haven't looked in a while now.
[09:22] <minghua> Fujitsu: I have a question about Python policy -- is it normal for a python extension (.so file) to link against libpython2.x.so?
[09:23] <nenolod> ah.
[09:24] <nenolod> persia, ia32-libs is a tarball of packages pulled from the i386 archive.
[09:24] <persia> nenolod: I bet there is a script that defines what gets pulled that could take a small patch.
[09:24] <nenolod> persia, hopefully
[09:25] <nenolod> ia32-libs-2.2ubuntu2/fetch-and-build
[09:25] <nenolod> probably this ;)
[09:25] <Fujitsu> minghua: I'm not too sure about extensions.
[09:25] <Fujitsu> (the linking bits of them)
[09:25] <minghua> Fujitsu: Okay, thanks anyway.
[09:26]  * minghua has an oddball piece of software here, it's both a python extension and a scim plugin.
[09:29] <nenolod> persia, it just pulls the latest version from the archive and builds it
[09:29] <nenolod> persia, it's an ugly little system they have
[09:29] <nenolod> persia, so someone just needs to do a "No change rebuild"
[09:29] <nenolod> however, i have something else i want to do to ia32-libs
[09:29] <persia> nenolod: So the SDL libraries are already there, just broken?
[09:30] <nenolod> add libao ;)
[09:30] <nenolod> persia, yes
[09:30] <Fujitsu> Ng: Why did you move away from CDBS?
[09:30] <persia> nenolod: Well, if you make a patch, that is the easiest way to get a rebuild, although a changelog-only patch works too.
[09:30] <Ng> Fujitsu: for some daft reason I thought it wouldn't work with pycentral, but pochu has enlightened me otherwise, so I think I should switch back
[09:31] <nenolod> persia, libao isn't critical. it's just something zsnes guys want.
[09:31] <nenolod> (honestly, i still have mixed feelings on whether or not zsnes should be in the archive at all, given it's 64-byte binary blob use in two different places -- same blob though)
[09:32] <Fujitsu> Ng: See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy, particularly the section entitled `CDBS + distutils'.
[09:32] <nenolod> it's a case of practicality (e.g. nobody probably cares about that ROM, it's two decades old) verses correctness
[09:34] <Ng> Fujitsu: will do. I'll try and scrap the current stuff and get it re-rolled tonight :)
[09:35] <Fujitsu> Ng: Sounds good - terminator looks most useful.
[09:35] <Ng> :D
[09:36] <nenolod> persia, i'll add libao to the library manifest
[09:36] <nenolod> and submit a debdiff, and hopefully that'll fix ia32-libs at the same time
[09:36] <nenolod> but i'm not sure if the buildd's actually build anything
[09:42] <persia> Ng: Just a side note, you might want to check the copyright on the .po files.  Last I looked it still had template cruft.
[09:42] <Ng> persia: *nod. I noticed that too last night, and I think I have enough information from the one translator so far to fix that :)
[09:43] <persia> Ng: Excellent!
[09:43] <persia> Would anyone with a powerpc be willing to try building http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mednafen/mednafen_0.8.5-1.dsc ?
[09:44] <Ng> as a more general point, how should the translations get included with the package? I've been perusing gnome-app-install's packaging and I don't see them anywhere in the final .deb
[09:44] <TheMuso> persia: I'm on it.
[09:44] <TheMuso> persia: In hardy?
[09:44]  * TheMuso boots his PowerPC.
[09:44] <persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  yes, in hardy.  The new upstream looks like it closes a bunch of bugs, but I don't want to introduce more FTBFS.
[09:45] <TheMuso> Ok.
[09:45] <persia> Ng: Depends if you're in universe or main.  In main they get stripped into the translations packages.
[09:45]  * persia doesn't actually know the answer for universe, but thinks gnome-app-install might not be the best example to work from
[09:46] <Ng> persia: ohhh, yeah and of course g-a-i will be in main
[09:47] <Fujitsu> Nothing special is done to universe packages.
[09:47] <Fujitsu> Unfortunately.
[09:47] <persia> Fujitsu: Right, but where should the translations be put to be active?
[09:48] <Fujitsu> persia: I'm not sure. Wherever they're meant to be put, I guess. Nothing Ubuntu-specific.
[09:48] <persia> Fujitsu: That's about my level of understanding as well :(
[09:50] <Ng> not to worry, I'm sure I can find something that does it, and rip it apart :)
[09:53] <StevenK> Ng: Beg pitti about translation stuff.
[09:54] <Ng> :)
[09:54] <persia> bddebian: I can still reproduce bug #119407 with 0.7.1-1.  Any objections to the suggested patch?
[09:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 119407 in monsterz "monsterz game does not start" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119407
[09:54] <nenolod> build:
[09:54] <nenolod> #       ./fetch-and-build
[09:54] <nenolod> W. T. F.
[09:55] <nenolod> shouldn't that be enabled???
[09:55] <StevenK> ARGH
[09:55] <persia> nenolod: someone prefers shell to make
[09:55] <nenolod> persia, this is from ia32-libs
[09:55] <nenolod> persia, it's not building anything. it's using the debs that are already there.
[09:55] <nenolod> persia, which is why it's all screwed up
[09:55] <nenolod> :(
[09:56]  * StevenK fiddles with Rails more
[09:56] <StevenK> I made the mistake of reading the old Python code last night
[09:56]  * StevenK shivers
[09:57] <persia> StevenK: When code is old, only those other than the author should ever read it.
[09:57]  * nenolod removes that # of MASSIVE BREAKAGE
[09:58] <StevenK> persia: This code is so bad I'd be afraid of anyone else seeing it ...
[09:58] <persia> StevenK: Release eary, release often :)
[09:59] <StevenK> I'm not sure I want other people reading my Ruby either :-)
[09:59]  * nenolod makes a debdiff
[09:59] <StevenK> I'm fairly sure I do a few things that'd make purists want blood
[10:00] <persia> StevenK: Assuredly.  One hopes they'd flay you with patches.
[10:00] <nenolod> i can't touch ia32-libs
[10:00] <nenolod> i don't think
[10:00] <Fujitsu> nenolod: Why not? Binaries?
[10:00] <persia> nenolod: Why not?
[10:00] <nenolod> cause reading the changelog .. you're supposed to recreate the binaries yourself instead of having the buildd do it
[10:01] <persia> nenolod: ping one of the previous uploaders about it.
[10:01] <nenolod> i'll make a debdiff and subscribe the previous uploader
[10:01] <nenolod> problem solved ;)
[10:02] <DaveMorris> if anyone has time can they please review my package. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
[10:02] <StevenK> persia: I'd be happy for you to flay me with patches, but I suspect it might feel like work
[10:03] <persia> StevenK: Possibly.  Note that I did one (1) Ruby project, and left with a strong distaste for Rails and dreams of the official release of Ruby 1.9.
[10:03] <StevenK> Strong distate for Rails? How?
[10:04] <persia> StevenK: It's slow (yes, really).  The recommended optimisations are cruft.  The routing is painful.  It completely fails to cache anything.  It encourages the use of code in templates.  The templating language needs replacement.  I could go on...
[10:05] <TheMuso> persia: Building now.
[10:05] <StevenK> persia: If you think Rails routing is painful, look at how Jifty does it.
[10:06] <persia> StevenK: On the other hand, Merb + Haml (with a touch of Active Record) isn't so bad, and if I had another Ruby project, I'd use that.
[10:06] <StevenK> If that doesn't turn you off, the fact that Jifty is by the same people who spawned Request Tracker ought to.
[10:06] <StevenK> ActiveRecord is love, I have to say
[10:06] <nenolod> DaveMorris, consider using dpatch instead of cdbs simple-patchsys.
[10:07] <DaveMorris> nenolod: why?
[10:07] <persia> I'd prefer slightly more agressive caching, and better support for enumerations in properly normalised databases, but otherwise I agree.
[10:07] <TheMuso> nenolod: Why?
[10:07] <nenolod> dpatch is more standardised, while simple-patchsys is a cdbs-only thing.
[10:07] <TheMuso> So?
[10:07] <StevenK> persia: Rails 2 ought to do caching, and might address some of your speed and optimisation concerns.
[10:08] <TheMuso> cdbs with simple-patchsys is fine. No more build-deps needed.
[10:08] <DaveMorris> but if it works why change it?
[10:08] <persia> nenolod: Right.  So people who plan to un-CDBS their packages shouldn't use it.  That should be rare.
[10:08] <nenolod> fair enough ;p
[10:08] <TheMuso> If I am working on a cdbs package and I need to add patches, simple-patchsys it is.
[10:08] <nenolod> W: ia32-libs source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.6.2.0 (current is 3.7.3)
[10:09] <nenolod> oh that's just fan-tastic
[10:09] <StevenK> Ignore it
[10:09] <persia> StevenK: Not very well.  I suspect a lot of what went into Rails 2 (which I tried the day it came out) will end up making me happier with merb+haml+sass.  I'd like a better way to tie in javascript for AJAX, but that's easy enough to work around.
[10:09] <StevenK> I'm having enough troubles without AJAX :-)
[10:10] <nenolod> StevenK, i intend to be as apathetic to this package as possible
[10:10] <nenolod> StevenK, it scares me
[10:11] <persia> StevenK: Without AJAX?  It should be simple then.  Define some views.  Set up the routing.  Use make_resourceful.  Have a good day.
[10:12] <Fujitsu> StevenK: RT's not tooooooo terrible.
[10:12] <StevenK> persia: Should be. Maybe I'm not as smart as I think.
[10:13] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Yuh huh. You talking to someone who has to debug and write code to use it.
[10:13] <StevenK> s/You/You're/
[10:13] <nenolod> actually i've noticed that a lot of people try to out-think Rails
[10:13] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Oh, I've hacked it up quite a bit.
[10:13] <Fujitsu> It's only a bit evil. There are worse things.
[10:14] <StevenK> RT3.0, RT3.2 or RT2?
[10:14] <nenolod> request tracker makes me want to cry
[10:14] <Fujitsu> RT3.6.
[10:15] <nenolod> RT was so painful in my experience that i advocated upgrading to bugzilla
[10:15] <nenolod> even though it wasn't really meant for that
[10:15] <StevenK> Ah. RT3.6 made writing some parts simple. Try RT2
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Sounds ooold.
[10:15]  * StevenK still has the scars
[10:16] <nenolod> what i was using was some RT3.x
[10:16] <nenolod> and it was bad enough
[10:17] <StevenK> >> dvd.title
[10:17] <StevenK> => "$2, $1"
[10:17] <nenolod> i can't see why anybody would praise RT
[10:17] <StevenK> Hrm. Me thinks Ruby's .sub! doesn't work like Perl
[10:17] <Fujitsu> I ended up having to rewrite a significant portion of selfservice and other bits.
[10:17] <persia> StevenK: Not at all.
[10:17] <StevenK> Fujitsu: That would be because selfservice sucks
[10:17] <Fujitsu> It really, *really* does.
[10:19] <nenolod> my first real experience with RT was making it use LDAP for authentication (the RT was for internal use)
[10:19] <nenolod> it was sad. :(
[10:19] <Fujitsu> There's a contrib module for doing that now, and it seems to work.
[10:20] <Fujitsu> Though the implementation at work has some extra SSO evilities added.
[10:20] <nenolod> really i'd rather not discuss what i would do to the author of RT if i met him ;p
[10:20] <StevenK> Fujitsu: SSO?
[10:21] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Single Sign On.
[10:21] <StevenK> Ah. Thank $DIETY I never had to crack that evil nut
[10:21]  * StevenK whispers XSS close to Fujitsu
[10:21] <Fujitsu> I don't think my implementation of it was too bad.
[10:22]  * StevenK hugs script/console for debugging model code
[10:22] <Fujitsu> Though some of the applications did I got job of fighting having it retrofitted.
[10:22] <Fujitsu> s/I/a/. Don't know how I managed that.
[10:23] <StevenK> s/I \(go\)t/a \1od/  ?
[10:23] <Fujitsu> Um, yeah, that too. I managed to stuff that up well.
[10:24] <Fujitsu> I blame Perl.
[10:24] <Fujitsu> And HTML::Mason.
[10:25] <StevenK> .sub!, I will have my revenge ...
[10:25] <TheMuso> Have people been rejecting diffs just because they bump the standards version without validating why either in the changelog or the bug?
[10:27] <TheMuso> persia: mednafen built, just doing install/remove checks.
[10:27] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[10:27] <nenolod> TheMuso, most packages are already compliant with 3.7.3 if going 3.7.2 -> 3.7.3.
[10:27] <TheMuso> nenolod: Thats not the point.
[10:27] <persia> TheMuso: I've been rejecting them if they aren't clearly doing something else or linda or lintian tells my they don't actually comply.  Where they fix something else useful, I've been undoing the standards version change and dch'ing myself so the annoying person bumping the standards doesn't get upload credit.
[10:27] <persia> TheMuso: Thanks for testing that.
[10:28] <nenolod> TheMuso, i just say "Bump standards-version to 3.7.3" in mine if it was already compliant
[10:28] <persia> nenolod: But there's clear evidence of some contributors not even bothering to check.
[10:28] <StevenK> Hum. So, Ruby, if I say local var = self.arg, don't change self.arg when I change local var :-/
[10:28] <nenolod> persia, yuck :D
[10:29] <nenolod> well
[10:29] <nenolod> i subscribed the previous uploader to my bug
[10:29] <TheMuso> persia: Ok thanks.
[10:29] <TheMuso> I'd poke the person in question, but they are currently not on IRC.
[10:29]  * broonie normally explicitly says "policy x.y.z (no changes)" for noop policy updates
[10:30] <persia> TheMuso: There were a couple of *really* old standards version bumps (one was 0.3) in the queue.  The suggested fix was to only update debian/control, which was a case of clear rejection.
[10:30] <nenolod> 0.3?
[10:31] <persia> broonie: But would you want Ubuntu variation for that?  I don't think it's worth it.
[10:31] <persia> nenolod: Yes.
[10:31] <nenolod> i've never seen a 0.3 package
[10:31] <nenolod> what package is this? :D
[10:31] <broonie> persia: No, I'd never do that for an Ubuntu change unless there were enough other diffs that it was just noise.
[10:31] <nenolod> i mean, that's just irresponsible
[10:31]  * persia suggests examining a lintian tracker
[10:32]  * StevenK idly wonders if local var = String.new(self.arg) is naughty
[10:32] <persia> broonie: That's my thought.  If a package is out of date, and getting updated in lots of other ways, and the updater wants to fix it to comply with the new standards version, it seems reasonable.  Otherwise, no real point.
[10:32] <nenolod> persia, yes. i agree there
[10:33] <persia> StevenK: It's considered poor form.
[10:33] <broonie> Or if the policy changes are real bugs of some kind.
[10:33] <nenolod> ubuntu variation for a standards bump is crap
[10:33]  * Fujitsu sees 2x 2.x
[10:33] <persia> broonie: In those cases, I'd be perfectly happy to see the bugfix without the policy bump.
[10:33] <broonie> persia: Me too but equally I wouldn't be upset about the policy bump either.
[10:34] <persia> broonie: Neither I, really (as long as the result was also lintian/linda clean)
[10:35] <nenolod> 180,000 bugs in launchpad
[10:35] <nenolod> \o/
[10:35] <Fujitsu> nenolod: Yay...
[10:37] <TheMuso> persia: Go ahead and sync mednafen.
[10:38] <nenolod> mednafen is nifty
[10:38] <persia> TheMuso: Bug drafting in process now...
[10:38]  * persia actually decides to steal Fujitsu's bug for it
[10:39] <nenolod> so, what should i do about zsnes
[10:39] <nenolod> is two instances of a copyrighted ROM (64 bytes each) worth removal?
[10:40] <nenolod> maybe i should email debian-legal
[10:46] <TheMuso> persia: It has been synced.
[10:46] <persia> TheMuso: Hrm?
[10:46] <TheMuso> hardy-changes shows it.
[10:47] <StevenK> *Way* *cool*.
[10:47] <StevenK> My code causes webrick and mongrel to segv
[10:48] <StevenK> Ahh. They don't like recursion much
[10:48] <persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  That was mine too: I wonder why it doesn't appear in rmadison.
[10:49] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Nice job.
[10:49] <TheMuso> persia: Its only just happened.
[10:49] <TheMuso> I checked mail, and there it was.
[10:49] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Rails *really* doesn't like it if you have a method called title trying to use self.title ...
[10:49] <persia> TheMuso: Ah.  Right.  45 minutes ago.  I should probably stop now :)
[10:49] <StevenK> !recursion
[10:49] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about recursion - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[10:50] <StevenK> Sigh, we could have at least have a quip like "See !recursion until it makes sense."
[10:50] <Fujitsu> StevenK: I'm not sure many things will like that.
[10:50] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[10:55] <nenolod> i think i'm going to just not think about the binary blobs in ZSNES
[10:55] <nenolod> because i know if i do something about that, i'll just get flamed and it's not worth it ;p
[11:06] <DarkMageZ> nenolod, there might be a dmca exception for obsolete gaming systems ?
[11:06] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, we can't legally redistribute it
[11:06] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, we also legally can't redistribute libsidplay2.
[11:06] <DarkMageZ> i suppose it's not a reverse engineer and reimplement. bugga.
[11:07] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, if you want to pursue this, go ahead, but i'm not going to be the one who takes the massive flamage for this
[11:07] <nenolod> :D
[11:07] <Fujitsu> You're not going to get flamed for following up licencing issues.
[11:07] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, actually, ZSNES could be modified to do hardware level ROM emulation
[11:07] <nenolod> but pagefault claims rom reimplementation is a waste of time
[11:08] <nenolod> so i'm not seeing that happening
[11:08] <nenolod> and my x86 asm knowledge is not that slick
[11:09] <nenolod> Fujitsu, not by devs, but by users surely
[11:09] <nenolod> i'll be "the guy which resulted in ZSNES being removed from Debian and Ubuntu"
[11:09] <DarkMageZ> where's the correct place to bring up licensing issues? bug tracker? i'm going to call on it. better to be flamed than run risks.
[11:09] <nenolod> i don't want to be that guy :D
[11:10] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, i'd try debian-legal
[11:10] <DarkMageZ> as ubuntu isn'
[11:10] <DarkMageZ> only syncs* good thinking.
[11:10] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, if you want to know where the offending code is, i'll tell you all about it
[11:11] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, there's two copies of the same blob
[11:12] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, copy 1 is the initial data stored in SPCRAM, declared at zsnes/src/cpu/spc700.asm lines 45-53
[11:12] <DarkMageZ> bloody debian & their obsession with mailing lists...
[11:12] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, copy 2 is in SPCROM, declared at zsnes/src/cpu/spc700.asm lines 117-122
[11:13] <nenolod> next binary blob is 1KB
[11:14] <nenolod> zsnes/src/chips/dsp1emu.c lines 73-201
[11:14] <nenolod> 2KB, rather.
[11:14] <DarkMageZ> oddly enough. that file doesn't exist in zsnes svn. or i'm blind
[11:15] <nenolod> the next binary blob is at
[11:15] <nenolod> (also 2KB)
[11:15] <nenolod> zsnes/src/chips/dsp3emu.c lines 35-164
[11:18] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, they're all in svn
[11:18] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, just replace zsnes with trunk ;)
[11:20] <nenolod> hmm
[11:20] <nenolod> in SVN, the SPC700 ROM is indeed no longer present, i think
[11:20] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, try grepping for SPCROM
[11:21] <DarkMageZ> there's a folder called zspc
[11:21] <DarkMageZ> tho it looks to be c code
[11:21] <nenolod> yeah. that's the spc core from audacious
[11:25] <DarkMageZ> nenolod, so ./src/chips/dsp3emu.c lines 74-201 is a copyrighted rom from nintendo.
[11:25] <nenolod> yes
[11:26] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, dsp1emu
[11:26] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, dsp3emu is 25-154
[11:26] <nenolod> in SVN
[11:26] <nenolod> however
[11:26] <nenolod> we are still shipping the SPC700 ROM in the current ZSNES package
[11:26] <DarkMageZ> ah yeah. typo. they haven't even thrown in comments to show that it's not their own work... shady
[11:27] <DarkMageZ> yeah. so if the current package was synced to svn then we'd only be breaching dsp chips.
[11:27] <nenolod> that's not much better.
[11:27] <nenolod> well, they're all dsps
[11:27] <nenolod> but
[11:27] <nenolod> that's not much better. :P
[11:28] <nenolod> plus, there's probably other blobs that we are not yet aware of
[11:28] <DarkMageZ> yeah, still not legal unless zsnes has a licence to redistribute the roms.
[11:28] <nenolod> which i can assure you they don't
[11:28] <nenolod> ;)
[11:28] <DarkMageZ> have you asked them about their licence to them? if not i will.
[11:28] <nenolod> yeah
[11:28] <nenolod> i did
[11:29] <nenolod> pagefault replied with something along the lines of "get some fucking balls, it's not like nintendo is going to enforce the copyrights"
[11:29] <nenolod> i forget the details of how his roms came up
[11:29] <DarkMageZ> sounds like pagefault to me
[11:29] <nenolod> ;)
[11:29] <nenolod> at any rate
[11:30] <DarkMageZ> i'm gonna figure out how to use a mailing list. then i'm gonna push the evidence at debian legal.
[11:30] <nenolod> we need to determine our position on zsnes, libsidplay2 (which contains C64 KERNAL and BASIC), snes9x which probably contains the ROM too
[11:30] <nenolod> mednafen probably contains blobs
[11:31] <nenolod> visualboy is clean. i know for a fact.
[11:31] <nenolod> it does HLE ROM emulation
[11:33] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, i'm going to bed
[11:33] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, as for mailing list, you subscribe then send a message ;p
[11:34] <DarkMageZ> nenolod, yeah. i didn't wanna mess up my first post on a debian mailing list =D good night.
[11:36] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, be sure to CC: me
[11:36] <nenolod> ;)
[11:38] <DarkMageZ> i will
[11:40] <nenolod> well
[11:40] <nenolod> BCC: actually
[11:40] <nenolod> i want to watch but not be flamed ;)
[11:43] <nenolod> DarkMageZ, also you should make it clear that all of the firmware is abandonware, because it might make things different than otherwise
[11:43] <nenolod> (e.g. "All of the firmware we have identified in ZSNES is believed to be abandonware.")
[11:43] <nenolod> goodnight
[11:43] <DarkMageZ> yeah, ty for the reminder.
[11:46] <nenolod> probably CC: the zsnes guys too
[11:46] <nenolod> bbl for real this time :D
[12:45] <\sh> moins
[12:48] <geser> Hi \sh
[12:49] <\sh> hey geser....time to do the wine community a favour and upload 0.9.52 from http://www.sourcecode.de/~shermann/wine/0.9.52/ ? :)
[12:50] <geser> I try to not touch wine, till now very successfully
[12:51] <\sh> geser: well, just sponsor ;) I'll take the blame
[12:52] <DarkMageZ> \sh, have you done regression testing :P
[12:53] <geser> \sh: what about becoming a MOTU again?
[12:53] <\sh> DarkMageZ: well itunes works on i386...:)
[12:53] <DarkMageZ> \sh, it has my vote... hopefully it'll fix the massive regression 0.9.51 gave me.
[12:55] <\sh> DarkMageZ: what went wrong with 0.9.51?
[12:56] <\sh> geser: it's a todo on my list...for 2008...:)
[12:57] <DarkMageZ> \sh, it segfaults when trying to run Age of Wonders
[12:58] <Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Last time I tried that it didn't segfault but didn't work anyway... did it with < 0.9.51?
[12:58] <DarkMageZ> Fujitsu, yeah. it was happy with the previous version that was in the archives.
[12:59] <\sh> DarkMageZ: on hardy?
[12:59] <Fujitsu> A few months ago there were nasty error dialogs as soon as gameplay started, but I haven't tried recently.
[12:59] <DarkMageZ> \sh, yeah. hardy.
[13:01] <DarkMageZ> i wish the wine guys would build their own mass regression test suite
[13:01] <ChrisGibbs> gday all
[13:01] <Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Nah, that'd be too easy.
[13:02] <\sh> DarkMageZ: as long they are not concentrating on one "bug free" release, it won't ever be reaching a stable release
[13:02] <\sh> windows is too complex regarding all it's features inside
[13:03] <\sh> too many hacks in the software to workaround problems etc.
[13:03] <ChrisGibbs> Im thinking of doing some dev work for Ubuntu. Been using it for the last few years and finally want to contribute back to the community. I have limited experience with C and a fair bit with Java, perl and python. Would there be any point of me learning C++ or just code in languages im decent at?? Im pretty much finished my B of CompSci and gonna have some free time, what better way to spend it :)
[13:05] <persia> ChrisGibbs: Best way to start would be to look into some bugs in languages you know.  Once you've hit a few to get familiar with the processes, you'd be in good shape to look at some of the others, and might be in good shape to learn new languages working on different things.
[13:07] <DarkMageZ> ChrisGibbs, if you're into music visualization. then the libvisual project might be a good place to kill time ? would be a great challenge to grind your c skills axe at. if you're looking for a single project =D
[13:07] <ChrisGibbs> persia: Coolies. Thanks for the heads up. I have been pouring over documentation for the last few days about starting points etc... and thinking i will probably have a look into some bugs
[13:07] <ChrisGibbs> on the weekend
[13:09] <ChrisGibbs> DarkMageZ: Im into music, but visulizations isnt my strongest point, I have mainly concentrated on networking and security @ uni and have my CCNA. Working in the industry currently as a Network Admin. Wanna probably get into development for better integration with Windows Enterprise Environments...... but that is a fair way off :)
[13:09] <Hobbsee> soren: might be able to help you there, then
[13:09] <soren> Hobbsee: er?
[13:10] <Hobbsee> soren: poach him for -server based stuff?
[13:10] <soren> Hobbsee: Ah, I thought you were talking *to* me, not *about* me.
[13:10] <Hobbsee> soren: no, but as an aside, i'll suggest that you talk to him :)
[13:11] <Hobbsee> it's the nick completion
[13:11] <soren> Who?
[13:11] <soren> Hobbsee: Yes. Very annoying.
[13:11] <Hobbsee> soren: ChrisGibbs.  right above.
[13:11] <\sh> ChrisGibbs: hmm...fix MS then ... e.g. you could fix AD  ;)
[13:11] <ChrisGibbs> haha
[13:12] <DarkMageZ> ChrisGibbs, ah. sweet. someone with their ccna =D. you might have fun hacking at the gnome network manager & nm-applet. adding gui network bridging, routing and cool stuff like that. (in a user friendly way)
[13:14] <\sh> DarkMageZ: well, a first shot would be adding cisco vpn support into NM ,-)
[13:15] <\sh> the cisco vpn client has a strange mind regarding co-working with NM :)
[13:15] <ChrisGibbs> cisco integrated with the NM..... its hard enough getting the client to run :)
[13:16] <ChrisGibbs> just a matter of convincing everyone to use SSL
[13:16] <soren> \sh: What's the problem? Works fine for me.
[13:16] <soren> ChrisGibbs: mathiaz is working on AD integration and such. You could pester him if you want :)
[13:16] <\sh> soren: it worked fine for me too...when I ifconfig <unused device> down
[13:17] <soren> \sh: Bug no?
[13:17] <\sh> soren: it's a bug in ciscos module...not NM...cisco should honour configured devices with an ip attached to it, not using the first device it can find without any ip addr on it...
[13:18] <soren> \sh: I don't follow at all? You're not talking about network-manager-vpnc?
[13:18] <\sh> soren: at least the version i had to use
[13:18] <\sh> soren: no..I talk about cisco vpn client....to commercial one...the vpnc I couldn't use because it didn't work with our keys
[13:19] <soren> \sh: Bug no for that, then?
[13:19] <Fujitsu> The Cisco VPN client sucks, especially on Windows.
[13:19] <\sh> soren: there was a TAC for it at cisco...I don't know the number, our network people did thaqt
[13:19] <Fujitsu> vpnc actually works sometimes.
[13:20] <soren> I've never had vpnc fail on me, I believe.
[13:20] <soren> I've used it with.. Um... More than three different networks, at least.
[13:20] <ChrisGibb1> I prefer vpnc over the Cisco client
[13:20] <Fujitsu> I have, but only because of a GCC bug which took ages to work out.
[13:20] <ChrisGibb1> yeah I have used it with around 3 different networks as well
[13:21] <soren> These days you don't even have to have the group password decrypted. It can use it as is.
[13:22]  * persia wonders if any of the vpnc users about would like to address bug #124663, which needs someone familiar with the code to give some attention :)
[13:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124663 in vpnc "No default internet traffic after connecting to VPN" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124663
[13:22] <\sh> soren: but only if you use group password security...when you have for every user a separate key and user+password scheme on your vpn end...it didn't work out with vpnc these days
[13:22] <soren> \sh: That must have been a loooong time ago.
[13:22] <\sh> soren: feisty :)
[13:22] <soren> pre-breezy, at least.
[13:22] <soren> I've done just that since at least breezy.
[13:24] <soren> persia: vpnc is merely obeying what the vpn gateway is telling it to do.
[13:24] <soren> persia: It's quite easy to override, though.
[13:24] <\sh> soren: our setup was: root ca cert + company cert + user cert + password...it was even a mess exporting the root ca and company cert out of the cisco vpn client on windows...only IE was able to do that
[13:24] <persia> soren: Actually, according to one of the users, it isn't.
[13:24] <persia> soren: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vpnc/+bug/124663/comments/11
[13:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124663 in vpnc "No default internet traffic after connecting to VPN" [Medium,Confirmed]
[13:25] <soren> persia: I'm confused. Is it a n-m-vpnc problem or a vpnc one?
[13:25] <persia> soren: n-m-vpnc
[13:25] <soren> persia: I haven't read the bug report closely at all.
[13:26] <soren> ...then perhaps reassigning it would be a clever idea :)
[13:26] <persia> Or at least I think it's n-m-vpnc.  I don't use either n-m or vpnc, so I'm not qualified to judge, but I'm opinionated enough about split routes by default that I ended up subscribed to the bug.
[13:26] <soren> ...and in that case, it's probably a dupe, IIRC.
[13:26] <ChrisGibb1> night everyone. got work early
[13:27] <soren> It must be really early if you have to go to bed at half past two in the afternoon.
[13:27] <soren> I don't believe in timezones.
[13:27] <Hobbsee> heh
[13:28] <persia> soren: Time zones do apply for $work :P
[13:28] <Hobbsee> most unfortunately
[13:28] <soren> persia: Not where I live.
[13:28] <ChrisGibb1> lol midnight here and got work in 7hrs
[13:28] <persia> soren: I'm sorry to hear that.  I had a job like that once...
[13:29] <Hobbsee> ChrisGibb1: you're in adelaide?
[13:29] <soren> persia: Some day when I have enough time, I plan to beat network-manager's vpn api into a bloody pulp along with those plugins and do things the right way.
[13:29] <persia> soren: Regarding n-m-vpnc, looking at all bugs ever opened, only bug #178142 looks like it might be the same issue (but as I said, I'm not sure if it is vpnc or n-m-vpnc)
[13:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 178142 in network-manager-vpnc "default gateway is incorrect" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178142
[13:29] <persia> Ah.  Good.  Thanks :)
[13:29] <soren> persia: It might be against n-m-openvpn instead.
[13:30] <soren> It's really a network-manager vpn api issue.
[13:30] <soren> It's not really designed to be as flexible as most vpn solutions actually need it to be.
[13:31] <soren> network-manager is not designed to handle multiple routes and all that jazz, so naturally it doesn't expose an API for setting them from the vpn plugins.
[13:31] <persia> bug #175085?  Anyway, I suspect you're correct that it is an API issue if I'm finding the same thing open in all these different places...
[13:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175085 in network-manager-openvpn "Default gateway missing after connection setup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175085
[13:31] <soren> I'm quite comfortable with network-manager{,-openvpn,-vpnc} code, but I just don't have the time :(
[13:32] <soren> bug 88069
[13:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 88069 in network-manager-openvpn "[Feisty] n-m-openvpn fails to pull routes" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88069
[13:32] <soren> That was the one I was thinkging of, I think.
[13:33] <soren> Alas... So much brokenness.. So little time.
[13:33] <persia> Well at least one of the four gets a dup :)
[13:33] <ChrisGibb1> Hobbsee: Couple hrs north of Sydney
[13:34] <Hobbsee> ChrisGibb1: then it's 12.33am, not midnight, surely.
[13:34] <ChrisGibb1> it is..... was rounding down  :P
[13:34] <Hobbsee> ChrisGibb1: norah head or something, i take it.  fun.
[13:34] <ChrisGibb1> Terrigal
[13:34] <Hobbsee> heh, i was close ;)
[13:34] <ChrisGibb1> very
[13:35] <ChrisGibb1> where abouts are you?
[13:35] <Hobbsee> ChrisGibb1: sydney
[13:35]  * Hobbsee was recently up there, so knows about the distance
[13:35] <StevenK> There's a whole bunch of us in Sydney
[13:35] <StevenK> Aww
[13:35] <StevenK> He seems like fun
[13:35] <ChrisGibb1> ?
[13:35] <StevenK> Heh
[13:36] <StevenK> ChrisGibb1: Didn't see your 1 and thought you'd dropped off :-)
[13:36]  * StevenK is another Sydney person
[13:36] <ChrisGibb1> damm pidgin playing up again i think
[13:36] <StevenK> Use a real IRC client? :-)
[13:41] <imbrandon> irssi ftw :)
[13:41] <imbrandon> moins StevenK
[13:41]  * StevenK waves
[13:42] <\sh> imbrandon: I'll send the drive next week
[13:43] <imbrandon> \sh: killer :)
[13:43] <imbrandon> \sh: have a good new year?
[13:43] <\sh> imbrandon: yeah...were celebrating new years eve with the family of my fiance, at least the family who is in and around germany :)
[13:44] <imbrandon> :)
[13:44] <\sh> some strange videos were also hitting youtube...really strange videos ,-)
[13:44] <imbrandon> hhahahahah yea
[13:44] <imbrandon> ok time to leave for work, bbiab
[13:45] <\sh> btw..is anyone playing eve online? ;)
[13:45] <imbrandon> not anymore, i did a few years ago
[13:46] <imbrandon> hrm what does iPhones have to do with VMWare
[13:46] <imbrandon> quote "You Could Win an iPhone
[13:46] <imbrandon> When you Update your Profile Information "
[13:46] <imbrandon> ^^ from VMWare
[13:47] <imbrandon> stooping to new lows heh, obviously they have my profile info if they are emailing me
[13:47] <imbrandon> I'd rather win something like a ESX License , heh
[13:48] <\sh> ok.../me needs to do some housework...:)
[13:48] <\sh> bbl
[14:51] <netzmeister> slomo, ping
[15:17] <mruiz> hi all
[15:18] <Vorian> hey there mruiz :)
[15:18] <mruiz> hi Vorian
[15:18] <mruiz> Vorian, I noticed that you started with the debian/watch crusade :-)
[15:19] <Vorian> aye
[15:19] <Vorian> mruiz: very badly though
[15:19] <Vorian> :)
[15:20] <bluekuja> persia, around?
[15:20] <persia> bluekuja: Almost not.
[15:21] <persia> Vorian: status, assignment, subscription for bug #179931...
[15:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 179931 in gnome-compiz-manager "gnome-control-center new upstream version: 0.10.4" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179931
[15:21] <bluekuja> persia, just a fast question
[15:21] <bluekuja> persia, why gmsh  (2.0.7-1.1) is missing in Debian's changelog?
[15:21] <bluekuja> persia, but is there in ubuntu (we have 2.0.7-1.1ubuntu1
[15:21] <persia> bluekuja: Likely because the maintainer didn't acknowledge the NMU.
[15:21] <mruiz> persia,
[15:22] <bluekuja> persia, should I keep that entry as valid?
[15:22] <Vorian> persia: so status would be fix committed?
[15:22] <bluekuja> persia, e.g 2.0.7-1.1
[15:22] <persia> bluekuja: I don't know specifics in this case, but as I understand it, Debian maintainers are permitted to ignore NMUs if they wish.  Better to ask a DD :)
[15:23] <bluekuja> persia, deleting that entry will mess up ubuntu 2.0.7-1.1ubuntu1
[15:23] <persia> Vorian: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue are the key references.  They are updated as things change.
[15:23] <Vorian> thanks persia
[15:24] <bluekuja> persia, and anyway the missing debian entry is there since a lot of new revisions
[15:24] <bluekuja> persia, merged in Ubuntu
[15:24] <persia> bluekuja: How so?  Until we sync, we preserve all our changelog modifications.  If we acknowledge the NMU, we keep the changelog entry.  If we don't care about the NMU, we can drop the changelog entry.  Personally, I don't like changing history, but I'm not confident enough it is wrong to complain to the maintainer.
[15:25] <persia> mruiz: ?
[15:25] <bluekuja> persia, right, I'll keep that entry then
[15:26] <bluekuja> persia, so we keep following the previous revisions
[15:26] <persia> bluekuja: As far as I understand it, yes.  Probably best to also check with someone with a deeper familiarity with Debian processes: it might be something worthy on complaint.
[15:26] <persia> s/on/of/
[15:26] <mruiz> persia, is it correct to fill bugs (debian watchfile needed) against all packages on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php ?
[15:27] <bluekuja> asac, around?
[15:27] <persia> mruiz: As long as you are intending to provide a patch.  Otherwise it's just bug noise.  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_upstream.php is also a good list to hit once you get better with watch files: most of those are just syntax errors.
[15:27] <Vorian> persia: got it.  I will be less sloppy in the future with status, assignments, and subscriptions.
[15:28] <persia> Vorian: Excellent.  I predict faster assimilations of your contributions.
[15:28] <Vorian> \o/
[15:28] <Vorian> kewl
[15:30] <mruiz> :-)
[15:35] <asac> bluekuja: what about?
[15:35] <bluekuja> asac, nvm, asked to pitti :)
[15:37] <mruiz> When do I need to update Standards-Version to 3.7.3?
[15:38] <persia> mruiz: When the package is ubuntu-only (not maintained in Debian), and you've updated it to match the current policy.
[15:39] <mruiz> persia, but I'll get a Lintian warning if I don't update it
[15:39] <persia> bluekuja: Please keep 2.0.7-1.1 as long as 2.0.7-1.1ubuntu1 remains outstanding.  Otherwise it's hard to track.  When that is the only remaining change, we can sync.
[15:40] <persia> mruiz: Yes, but you likely have other lintian output as well, no?  Further, if the package is maintained in Debian, the task of tracking standards versions properly belongs to the Debian maintainer.  It's only the packages not in Ubuntu that we need to ensure match the latest standards.
[15:40] <bluekuja> persia, pitti suggested to remove 2.0.7-1.1 as well
 pitti, e.g I remove 2.0.7-1.1 but I keep 2.0.7-1.1ubuntu1
 yes
[15:40] <bluekuja> persia, what to do?
[15:40] <persia> On the other hand, if a Debian package is very out of date, and you update it, that's fine, but be sure to fix all the other lintian warnings, errors, informational messages, etc. and verify against the latest policy.
[15:41] <persia> bluekuja: pitti: bluekuja: 'keep' -> you mean when merging it and writing the changelog? sure, can't hurt
[15:41] <persia> bluekuja: pitti: bluekuja: right; well, if it causes any trouble, just drop it
[15:41] <persia> Essentially, leave it there until it no longer has value (is the only remaining change), and request a sync.
[15:41] <bluekuja> persia, should it be added as a remaining change?
[15:42] <bluekuja> persia, ok, I'll comment the bug then
[15:42] <persia> bluekuja: No, doesn't need special mention in the changelog that we're preserving a changelog entry.  We never add "Retained Ubuntu changelog entries".  Just consider it part of the Ubuntu changelog entries until we can sync.
[15:42] <bluekuja> persia, kk
[15:44] <persia> bluekuja: The reasoning for my position is that the changelog entry for 2.7-1.1ubuntu1 doesn't make as much sense without the context of 2.7-1.1.  As soon as we don't need the 2.7-1.1ubuntu1 entry, there's no sense preserving 2.7-1.1.
[15:44] <bluekuja> persia, yep, agreed
[15:50] <mruiz> persia, I agree with your idea about Standards-Version
[16:03] <bddebian> Heya gang
[16:07] <mruiz> hi bddebian !
[16:08] <bddebian> Hello mruiz
[16:10] <rhpot1991> if I am making a package that will need to create a table, how do I go about doing that so it can be packaged up at some point?
[16:11] <mruiz> persia: bug 180113 :-)
[16:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 180113 in gnustep-ppd "Debian watch file doesn't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180113
[16:12] <geser> Hi bddebian
[16:12] <bddebian> Heya geser
[16:20] <\sh> re
[16:23] <netzmeister> wb
[16:46] <Vorian> mruiz: you watchfile fixer' uper' :)
[16:46] <mruiz> hahaha
[16:47] <Vorian> only 453 to go
[16:47] <mruiz> :-)
[17:00] <hellboy195> hey guys. in a .desktop from debian I have a Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/qtdmm.png  and the old ubuntu one is Icon=qtdmm   <--- isn't the .png necessary?
[17:01] <Kmos> hellboy195: nop.. it should be Icon=qtdmm
[17:01] <hellboy195> Kmos: thx :D
[17:01] <Kmos> and it's a .png icon, try to use dh_icons =)
[17:01] <hellboy195> Kmos: and Encoding=UTF-8 is also outdated?
[17:01] <Kmos> hellboy195: yes
[17:02] <hellboy195> Kmos: great
[17:02] <Kmos> replace it with Version=1.0
[17:02] <hellboy195> Kmos: ok
[17:02] <Kmos> :)
[17:13] <Kmos> when we bump 0ubuntu1 to 0ubuntu2, we need to change the maintainer field, if I'm not the maintainer ?
[17:14] <azeem> who's the Maintainer now?
[17:15] <Kmos> https://launchpad.net/~arbiter-deactivatedaccount
[17:15] <Kmos> it was him
[17:16] <Kmos> i'm talking about knowit package
[17:20] <Kmos> dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
[17:20] <Kmos> dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but there is no XSBC-Original-Maintainer field
[17:20] <Kmos> it suggests to change it
[17:20] <mruiz> !
[17:20] <mruiz> Kmos, which package?
[17:21] <Kmos> mruiz: "knowit"
[17:21] <Kmos> !info knowit hardy
[17:21] <ubotu> knowit: Tool for managing notes. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.10-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 152 kB, installed size 608 kB
[17:21] <Kmos> bug 180121
[17:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 180121 in knowit "KnowIt watch file is broken" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180121
[17:21] <AnAnt> Hello, is there a working URL for debconf tutorial ?
[17:23] <geser> AnAnt: have you tried looking at debconf-doc?
[17:23] <AnAnt> geser: yes, there was an easier tutorial on the web
[17:23] <mruiz> Kmos, did you fix the debian watch file ?
[17:24] <Kmos> mruiz: yes
[17:25] <Kmos> i've updated bug with changelog
[17:28] <mruiz> Kmos, did you tried with update-maintainer?
[17:28] <mruiz> s/tried/try/g :-)
[17:28] <Kmos> it needs hardy to run..
[17:29] <Kmos> the current maintainer has account disabled in LP, so it's the best thing to do
[17:29] <Kmos> I think =)
[17:29] <DaveMorris> Hi, can someone revu my small package please - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
[17:29] <Kmos> isn't properly a merge..
[17:30] <mruiz> Kmos, I think that update-maintainer will fix your problem
[17:30] <Kmos> kmos@bash:~/packages/knowit-0.10$ update-maintainer
[17:30] <Kmos> You don't have hardy in your source repos.
[17:32] <mruiz> Kmos, please install ubuntu-dev-tools ;-)
[17:33] <Kmos> mruiz: i've that
[17:34]  * mruiz -> lunch
[17:35] <bluekuja> geser, willing to work on glide FTBFS or I can do it?
[17:36] <geser> bluekuja: you can have it
[17:36] <bluekuja> geser, thanks
[17:38] <Kmos> mruiz: it does the same thing I've done =)
[17:40] <Adri2000> Kmos: you just need the hardy deb-src in your sources.list
[17:41] <Kmos> Adri2000: i've used --section :)
[18:30] <mruiz> mathiaz, I'm reading your comment about adtool :-)
[18:49] <bddebian> persia: WTF man, the urbanterror data package is 700+ Mb!! :)
[18:55] <jdstrand> \sh hi!
[18:55] <jdstrand> \sh I am (finally) processing your debdiffs for wesnoth
[18:55] <jdstrand> bug #173881
[18:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173881 in wesnoth "the option "turn_cmd" can stall a computer or maybe start another application" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173881
[18:56] <jdstrand> \sh: I am not done but so far everything is looking really good (thanks!)
[18:56] <jdstrand> \sh: I had one small nit in the dapper debdiff
[18:57] <jdstrand> \sh: in the changelog, you linked to a patch that did you did not apply (because the file doesn't exist)
[18:58] <\sh> jdstrand: hmm....damn :( are you fixing it or should I do it later this evening?
[18:58] <jdstrand> \sh: no biggie, and you don't have to anything, I just thought I'd mention it :)
[18:58] <jdstrand> \sh: it is just a small changelog fix-- no problems
[18:58] <jdstrand> :)
[18:58] <\sh> jdstrand: cool...thx :)
[18:58] <jdstrand> I'm fixing it
[18:59] <jdstrand> \sh: no, thank you!
[19:01] <\sh> that reminds me...I have to do a drupal sec fix
[19:02] <zul> hey mdomsch
[19:05] <AnAnt> Hello, I am making an artwork package that includes a GDM theme
[19:05] <geser> zul: Hi, do you know if xen-source-2.6.16 is of any use in hardy or if it can be removed?
[19:05] <zul> geser: chuck it
[19:05] <AnAnt> Hello, I am making an artwork package that includes a GDM theme, now what is the correct method to configure the system to use that GDM theme ? Replace /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom ?
[19:05] <AnAnt> or edit it ?
[19:09] <mdomsch> greetings zul
[19:10] <geser> AnAnt: you mustn't modify files from other packages
[19:10] <AnAnt> geser: that's a conf file
[19:11] <geser> AnAnt: but it's not yours and can be modified by the admin
[19:12] <AnAnt> geser: so, what to do ?
[19:14] <AnAnt> geser: how about using debconf to ask wether he wants gdm.conf-custom to be modified ?
[19:14] <AnAnt> is that alright ?
[19:14] <stgraber> install your theme and let the user do the change using gdmsetup
[19:21] <AnAnt> stgraber: how about using debconf to ask wether he wants gdm.conf-custom to be modified ? is that acceptable ?
[19:23] <stgraber> I never saw a gdm theme package using debconf
[19:24] <stgraber> and it may be weird if the user is installing 2-3 theme packages at the same time (either being asked 3 times the same question or having only one package asking the question)
[19:37]  * jonnymind is away: dinner
[21:49] <mathiaz> I'm currently reviewing bug 136994
[21:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136994 in roundcube-webmail "Please make 0.1-RC1 or later of roundcube available in repositories" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136994
[21:50] <mathiaz> The situation is that roundcube was package first in Ubuntu as roundcube-webmail. But now Debian has also a version of roundcube, named roundcube.
[21:51] <mathiaz> So I was wondering if changing roundcube to Conflict and Replace roundcube-webmail is enough to fix the problem.
[21:52] <_MMA_> ScottK: Any word on that mppenc backport? I haven't seen it hit the repo. :-/
[21:52] <rzr> is there an other roundcube project ?
[21:52] <ScottK> I think the archive admins were on vacation last week.
[21:52] <mathiaz> rzr: nope. It's the same project.
[21:52] <ScottK> _MMA_: Patience.  There are a number of others pending too.
[21:53] <mathiaz> rzr: it's just that it was first package in Ubuntu with a different name than the one used by Debian later on.
[21:53] <rzr> so what were the motivation to -webmail in package name ?
[21:53] <_MMA_> ScottK: Sure. But within a month I figured it would have been processed.
[21:53] <mathiaz> rzr: don't know.
[21:53] <ScottK> _MMA_: what's the bug number?
[21:54] <_MMA_> Im looking now.
[21:54] <ScottK> mathiaz: And provide too.
[21:54] <rzr> mathiaz: I would suggest then to merge them both in roundcube :)
[21:54] <mathiaz> rzr: well - I'd like to drop roundcube-webmail completly.
[21:54] <Fujitsu> You'll have to at least keep a transitional package.
[21:55] <mathiaz> ScottK: roundcube should also provide roundcube-webmail ?
[21:55] <rzr> that's the lazy way :)
[21:55] <rzr> it's good to be lazy sometime :)
[21:55] <_MMA_> ScottK: Bug 174722
[21:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174722 in gutsy-backports "Please backport mppenc to Gutsy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174722
[21:55] <ScottK> mathiaz: Off the top of my head, yes.  But mind a transitional package like Fujitsu says too.
[21:56] <ScottK> _MMA_: Looking
[21:56] <mathiaz> Fujitsu: hum.. So how would be the transitional package solution ?
[21:57] <_MMA_> Looks like Riddle looked on the 18th. I guess if it were pushed after that it might not have been processed by the admins yet.
[21:58] <Fujitsu> mathiaz: Same as any other transitional package. There are a multitude of examples in the archive.
[21:58] <ScottK> _MMA_: It's in NEW for Gutsy: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue
[21:58]  * _MMA_ MUST bookmark that one of these years. ;)
[21:59] <_MMA_> Cool Scott. Thanx.
[22:02] <sladen> mathiaz: talk to the Debian maintainer of 'roundcube' and ask for their suggestions
[22:02] <sladen> mathiaz: basically in the future, which are you likely to want to maintain
[22:12] <persia> bddebian: Maybe not a candidate for the installation CD then?  Also, how well do you know the monsterz source?
[22:13]  * TheMuso sighs. Some people just don't understand sync request bugs.
[22:15] <bddebian> persia: Probably not that well why?  All of the cursing? :)
[22:17] <persia> bddebian: No, you were just in the changelog, and I can still reproduce the completely fails to work on AMD64 bug.  If you knew the source, I'd ask for your input on the proposed patch.  If you were just cleaning up debian/, I'll investigate later.
[22:18] <bddebian> persia: d00d, I don't know any source :)
[22:18] <geser> bddebian: program and forget?
[22:18] <persia> bddebian: Just checking :P
[22:21] <TheMuso> People are still not understanding that when someone like myself creates a sync request bug, sets to confirmed, and subscribes ubuntu-archive, that the sync request is actually a request for the archive admins to sync the package, and not someone requesting someone else update the package, with what could still be a totally wrong diff/sync request.
[22:21] <TheMuso> Well, at least one person isn't.
[22:21] <bddebian> TheMuso: Yeah, I got one of those too and I was like WTF?? :)
[22:30] <persia> People are just trying to be helpful.  Better to point such people at the out of date list, although with only six weeks left to FF, maybe not so exciting.
[22:33] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah I know.
[22:36]  * TheMuso sighs. Another one.
[22:36] <TheMuso> persia: You might want to take a look at your freedroydrpg sync bug.
[22:37] <TheMuso> freedroidrpg even
[22:39] <persia> TheMuso: Amusing.  In that case it's just a new debian revision, and that is the correct debdiff.  On the other hand, the debdiff isn't the right way to solve it.
[22:39] <TheMuso> persia: I know, but I thought I'd bring it to your attention. He did the same for a sync bug of mine, and went so far as to set status to in progress.
[22:40] <persia> smiutils?  For freedroid, it's just assigned.
[22:40] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah smilutils.
[22:42] <SnackPack> that's me
[22:42] <SnackPack> what's up
[22:43] <persia> Snackpack: we don't use debdiffs for syncs.
[22:43] <SnackPack> okay
[22:43] <persia> More specifically, there is a sync tool in the archive management software that the archive administrators use when updating a package.  This is preferred to upload.
[22:44] <SnackPack> what's the tool called?
[22:44] <persia> Of much more interest in a sync bug is the description summarizing the changes and rationale for the sync.  This is typically sufficient to convince a member of ubuntu-dev to grant and DIF exception, after which we only wait on archive-admin action.
[22:45] <persia> SnackPack: The tool is part of launchpad.  No idea if it has a separate name.
[22:46] <SnackPack> hmm, guess I'll just wait for the classes on all this tomorrow
[22:47] <persia> SnackPack: which class?
[22:48] <SnackPack> aren't there irc classes on this every friday?
[22:49] <SnackPack> I mean, there's so much stuff in the launchpad wiki, I don't know what is current and what's not
[22:49] <persia> SnackPack: There's the MOTU Q&A sessions, which are expected to have their second week of holiday hiatus tomorrow.  Questions are also encouraged at any time in this channel.
[22:50] <persia> For current practices, I suggest wiki.ubuntu.com.  Further, I suggest starting from httpw://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[22:50] <persia> Err.  That should be https.
[22:51] <SnackPack> guess I'll ask in here before attempting *any* bug
[22:51] <StevenK> Hyper Text Transfer Protocol Weak ? :-P
[22:51] <SnackPack> but I'm taking off soon
[22:51] <persia> SnackPack: That's a good way to start.  What sort of thing are you trying to accomplish?
[22:52] <persia> StevenK: Yes.  Has 1-bit encryption, for special added protection.
[22:52]  * StevenK smirks
[22:52] <SnackPack> take on some simple bug tasks...  maybe become motu
[22:54] <persia> SnackPack: For simple stuff that provides an introduction to packaging and processes, I'd suggest starting with watch files, .desktop files, and similar supplementary tasks.  These are unlikely to impact the packages much, and tend to be a good introduction to the processes.
[22:56] <persia> A list of missing watch files can be found from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php, and you can generate a list of packages that might need a .desktop file from http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/find-missing-desktop (but see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles for guidelnes on inclusion).
[22:57] <bddebian> Later gang
[22:57] <SnackPack> thanks, I'll see if I can get on some of those tomorrow
[23:35] <tormod> ogra: hi, please don't forget about bug #177126
[23:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177126 in xscreensaver "please merge xscreensaver 5.04-2 from Debian unstable main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177126
[23:40] <StevenK> Hum.
[23:41] <StevenK> Does ldd recurse down the stack of shared libraries?
[23:41] <soren> StevenK: I don't belive it does, no.
[23:41] <ion_> I’d *assume* not, but i don’t know.
[23:41] <StevenK> Hum. Does objdump, then?
[23:42] <ion_> I’d *assume* not, but i don’t know. :-)
[23:42] <soren> StevenK: I don't belive it does, no.
[23:42] <soren> StevenK: I'd be more surprised by the latter, though.
[23:42] <ion_> Yep
[23:42] <StevenK> Mmmm.
[23:42] <soren> by a few orders or magnitude.
[23:42] <soren> of magnitude, even.
[23:43] <soren> Luckily, it's quite a bit easier to implement a recursive version from a non-recursive one than to attempt to filter the other way around.
[23:45]  * StevenK is trying to figure out if gtkhtml is getting pulled in.
[23:45] <StevenK> It isn't depended on directly
[23:46]  * soren mumbles something about strace or lsof
[23:46] <StevenK> It's a library
[23:51] <greg-g> What is the best way to request an update of a package to the newest upstream version (which fixes at least one bug) when maintainer (same for ubuntu and debian) has not responded to bugs about the issue in both launchpad and debian bugs?
[23:51] <tormod> StevenK: ltrace
[23:51] <slangasek> StevenK: ldd does recurse.
[23:51] <Kmos> greg-g: you already filed a bug in debian about the new upstream version of the package ?
[23:52] <StevenK> I thought one of them did.
[23:52] <StevenK> slangasek: And I see your point about directfb, I'll be looking at that after work
[23:52] <slangasek> ok
[23:52] <greg-g> Kmos: yes, I wasn't sure what to title it at the time so it was just a copy of the upstream bug tracker's bug title
[23:53]  * StevenK looks for how gtkhtml is used
[23:53] <greg-g> should I just submit a bug against it titled "New Upstream version, please update" ?
[23:56] <Kmos> greg-g: "New upstream version X.XX"
[23:57] <greg-g> Kmos: should I include any links in the body or leave it blank?
[23:57] <Kmos> greg-g: links and some good reasons to have it updated. like bug fixes.
[23:58]  * greg-g wants to do it the "standard way" and follow etiquette
[23:58] <greg-g> Kmos: got it, thanks