[00:46] <hit> python-glade2 has just got broken
[00:46] <hit> i'm asked to do apt-get install -f, but it will remove almost everything
[00:46] <hit> including ubuntu-desktop and so on
[00:54] <h3sp4wn> hit: use aptitude
[00:54] <h3sp4wn> see what it suggests
[00:55] <hit> also my tab isnt working anymore in terminal
[00:56] <hit> aptitude seemd work
[00:57] <hit> but this tab-thing
[00:57] <hit> works with folders, but that's all
[01:07] <h3sp4wn> there is no folders
[01:17] <hit> ah what the hell
[01:18] <hit> *compiling supertux*
[01:50] <mbt> anyone know why the terminal is now attempting to transliterate unicode characters when they are input?
[03:29] <graft> yo, any idea when all these kde4 packages are going to be un-broken?
[03:35] <Hobbsee> "when they're done"
[04:19] <dastal> anyone here use usenet?
[05:15] <igoogle> hi guys
[05:15] <mbt> ello
[05:17] <igoogle> i use 8.04 now
[05:17] <igoogle> it always shutdown
[05:18] <mbt> What do you mean?
[05:22] <mbt> Anyone notice some breakage in the terminal in Hardy, particularly with respect to unicode character input and output?
[05:53] <graft> nope, no breakage here
[05:53] <graft> well, dnno about input
[05:53] <graft> but output seems fine
[05:53] <graft> i think
[05:53] <bazhang> same here
[05:54] <mbt> just seems that man pages do not appear right (lots of unicode ? markings of missing glyphs).  On entering unicode char 2122, I get a transliterated (TM) instead of ™.
[05:54] <mbt> Same for the copyright, reg trademark, æ and œ symbols and ligatures.
[05:55] <bazhang> well it is alpha 2 :}
[05:55] <graft> hrmmm
[05:55] <graft> using http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/examples/UTF-8-demo.txt i get lots of boxen
[05:56] <mbt> Egads.  Same here.  I had not thought to try that file.
[05:56] <graft> but i have no idea how it compares to gutsy
[05:56] <graft> oh wait i have a gutsy box, hold on a sec
[05:57] <mbt> I am using the settings from my Gutsy box---unicode in gnome-terminal was working great for me there.
[05:57] <graft> oh wait, the terminal is the same, duh
[05:57] <mbt> "man ls" has issues for me, too
[05:58] <graft> seems similar in gutsy
[05:58] <mbt> I thought maybe something was up, but when I rebooted back to Gutsy it all works correctly, no transliterating and such
[05:58] <graft> actually seems better in hardy
[05:58] <graft> hrm... well seems different in hardy, anyway
[05:58] <mbt> I noticed the transliterating only because I use an international keyboard, and now résumé appears as "r?sum?" on the terminal
[06:00] <graft> seems odd
[06:00] <graft> i'm using konsole
[06:01] <graft> seems like some glyphs were added, some were lost
[06:01] <mbt> Does Konsole/KDE let you enter arbitrary unicode characters with the keyboard?
[06:05] <graft> probably, using SKIM or whatever, but i dunno how
[06:06] <bazhang> arbitrary as in other language?
[06:06] <mbt> Alrighty.  Well, I think I am going to file a bug---it is frustrating to be seemingly limited once again to a subset of American English characters.
[06:07] <mbt> As in GNOME, where you can press Left Control+Left Shift+u, then type the unicode code point followed by a space.  e.g., C-S-u, then 2122 <SPC>, gets ™
[06:07] <mbt> You can do that with any valid Unicode character, and if there is a glyph in the font for it, it should show up.
[06:07] <spr0k3t> mbt: learned something new... thanks
[06:08] <mbt> spr0k3t: NP.  I have a page with more info on that, actually, and some common characters:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fd0man/Information/GNOME-Unicode
[06:10] <spr0k3t> I have a friend of mine who was looking for this just the other day.  They couldn't find the | on a finish keyboard using the en_us layout.
[06:11] <mbt> ASCII pipe, solid bar, or split bar? (there are three distinct code points that I know of for them)
[06:11] <spr0k3t> ASCII pipe
[06:11] <mbt> Should be Shift+\
[06:11] <mbt> On an American layout.
[06:12] <spr0k3t> the \ didn't exist on the finish keyboard since the enter key is the full L the the backspace isn't split
[06:12] <spr0k3t> at least, using the en_us layout on the finish keyboard.  seemed weird
[06:13] <mbt> Ahh.  Not entirely sure then, lol.  It is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar
[06:13] <mbt> Character 0x7c
[12:35] <scizzo-> hey all...I have added a forum thread about fixing the 100% fan problems on nvidia drivers that is in hardy at the moment
[13:21] <virtuelv> does language packs break for everyone in alpha 2?
[17:37] <telexicon> Is updating broken atm? I'm getting "E: Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on libstdc++6"
[17:37] <mbt> you have to install it first --
[17:37] <mbt> sudo apt-get install libstdc++6
[17:37] <mbt> then you should be able to update
[17:37] <mbt> don't know why that worked, but that is what got it going for me.
[17:37] <telexicon> so why is it forcing me to install it when im doing update + upgrade ...
[17:37] <mbt> i found that solution on the forums
[17:38] <telexicon> ok
[17:38] <mbt> i don't know---i don't understand (yet) the internals of APT
[17:38] <telexicon> i think its a mistake
[17:38] <mbt> well, yeah, it is a bug somewhere
[18:22] <pmratpoison> I read that kubuntu hardy won't be officially supported. Will it have kde 4?
[18:22] <mbt> kde 4 is a long, long away from being usable generally and stable
[18:22] <mbt> it will probably have it as an unsupported option
[18:23] <pmratpoison> if I have ati and I want to use compiz, will I have to do it over xgl, or with AIGLX?
[18:23] <mbt> if you use the very latest ati driver, it supports aiglx, but it is kinda buggy
[18:24] <pmratpoison> Do you know when the new and improved open driver will be released? what is the progress?
[18:25] <pmratpoison> (I'm referring to ATI of course)
[18:28] <mbt> not sure
[18:29] <mbt> i know that there is supposed to be one, and personally, i cannot wait for it, but it will probably be at least another year or two
[18:39] <SeveredCross> 7.11/7.12 are good,.
[18:39] <SeveredCross> But Compiz is fuxxed
[18:39] <SeveredCross> It checks for GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap and claims that the ATI driver doesn't have it.
[18:39] <SeveredCross> However, if I do exactly what it does to check for it, it exists.
[18:39] <mbt> oh?
[18:39] <SeveredCross> Yeah.
[18:39] <mbt> i was wondering about that
[18:40] <mbt> i had compiz working under gutsy, but it flat out told me "no" on hardy
[18:40] <SeveredCross> The glxinfo output on my ATI system (Catalyst 7.11) says that GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is present.
[18:40] <SeveredCross> Yeah, same for me.
[18:40] <SeveredCross> But, when compiz runs the check, it fails.
[18:40] <SeveredCross> And then it fails with indirect rendering too.
[18:40] <SeveredCross> I think it's a Compiz bug and not an ATI driver issue, because it worked on Gutsy.
[18:40]  * SeveredCross smells a regression,
[18:41] <mbt> well, someone who knows a thing about graphics and gl will have to look into that one... i can't.  i am working on another (very old) annoyance atm
[18:41] <SeveredCross> bojan@sirius:~$ glxinfo | grep -c GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
[18:41] <SeveredCross> 2
[18:41] <SeveredCross> Now, the problem is, Compiz looks for gt 2.
[18:42] <Pici> Theres a bug logged for that.
[18:42] <SeveredCross> Yeah, I found it.
[18:42] <Pici> I've been subscribed for a while, but havent seen any activity recently on it
[18:42] <SeveredCross> Has anyone figured out what the regression was from Gutsy to Hardy that broke that?
[18:43] <mbt> what is the bug #
[18:43] <Pici> I'm guessing new fglrx.
[18:43] <SeveredCross> No, because it worked in Gutsy.
[18:43] <Amaranth> What bug number?
[18:43] <Pici> But there were new fglrx drivers in hardy...
[18:43] <Pici> Bug 173663
[18:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173663 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "compiz will not launch with fglrx driver - falls back to metacity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173663
[18:43] <SeveredCross> Pici: I did it in Gutsy with the same fglrx driver that's in Hardy--catalyst 7.11
[18:44] <Amaranth> SeveredCross: Pastebin glxinfo and the output when you run compiz
[18:44] <SeveredCross> It jumped into Indirect Rendering mode because that grep count wasn't >2, it is exactly 2, but it worked.
[18:44] <Amaranth> Dude we don't check > 2
[18:45] <Amaranth> oh, we do, someone changed that :P
[18:45] <Amaranth> But what that means is that while both the server and the client support it they're not talking to each other so it's not a supported extension
[18:45] <Amaranth> Which means: your driver is broken
[18:45] <SeveredCross> http://pastebin.com/m6bef129e
[18:46] <SeveredCross> Hmm. That's really odd, because it worked on Gutsy.
[18:46] <mbt> same here
[18:46] <Pici> Amaranth: Can you suggest and/or change that bug so that someone looks at it?
[18:46] <SeveredCross> And are you sure that they don't check >2?
[18:46] <SeveredCross> 	if [ $($GLXINFO 2>/dev/null | grep GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap -c) -gt 2 ] ; then
[18:46] <SeveredCross> Line 155
[18:46] <SeveredCross> Er, 159.
[18:46] <SeveredCross> /usr/bin/compiz
[18:46] <Amaranth> yes, i see, someone changed it :)
[18:46] <Amaranth> but it is a correct check
[18:46] <Amaranth> #
[18:46] <Amaranth> GLX extensions:
[18:46] <Amaranth> #
[18:46] <Amaranth>     GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
[18:46] <Amaranth> #
[18:47] <Amaranth>     GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_OML_swap_method,
[18:47] <Amaranth> #
[18:47] <Pici> It wont work even if its changed.
[18:47] <Amaranth>     GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group
[18:47] <Amaranth> err, that pasted wrong
[18:47] <SeveredCross> I know it won't work if it's changed, I'm just pointing out the fact.
[18:47] <Pici> Yes.
[18:47] <Pici> Yes it did.
[18:47] <Amaranth> do you see GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap in there? that's where it needed to be
[18:47] <Amaranth> Which means...your driver is broken
[18:47] <SeveredCross> Again, that doesn't answer the question of why it worked on Gutsy.
[18:47] <Amaranth> Because your driver worked with xserver 1.3
[18:47] <Amaranth> hardy is xserver 1.4

[18:48] <SeveredCross> The indirect rendering stuff changed.
[18:48] <SeveredCross> That would explain it. I didn't check that.
[18:48] <Amaranth> The ddx (driver) API/ABI changed
[18:49] <Amaranth> Not a compiz bug, that's all I know or care about :)
[18:49] <SeveredCross> So just gotta wait for ATI to catch up on the xserver API/ABI.
[18:50] <Amaranth> SeveredCross: Try 7.12
[18:51] <SeveredCross> Has resolution issues, no good.
[18:51] <SeveredCross> Drops me to 1280xsomething rather than my full 1440x900.
[18:52] <SeveredCross> I'll wait for 7.13
[18:52] <Amaranth> That's ATI for you
[18:52] <Amaranth> Fix one thing, break another
[18:52] <SeveredCross> They're getting better though. ^_^
[18:52] <Amaranth> nvidia is almost just as bad
[18:52] <mbt> so wait, the fix is new driver or roll back xserver, is that right?
[18:52] <Amaranth> You do not want to roll back the xserver
[18:52] <SeveredCross> Yeah.
[18:53] <Amaranth> catalyst 7.12 might help
[18:53] <mbt> well, of course not lol i don't mess with modular X at all
[18:54] <mbt> too many interoperability issues are possible
[18:55] <mbt> meh, i will just wait.  dreamy windows are not that important to me personally, they are just cool
[18:55] <Amaranth> "In addition, AMD will be open-sourcing part of their new proprietary OpenGL driver and will be in a state so that it can be patched into the existing R300+ Mesa driver."
[18:55] <Amaranth> that's cool
[18:55] <Pici> Thats neat
[18:56] <mbt> it will be very nice when ati drivers perform as good as or better than nvidia ones... this is the only ati system i have, and it has been one frustrating thing after another with that proprietary blob
[18:57] <Amaranth> I'm hoping nouveau gets 3d support soon
[18:57] <Amaranth> that's probably ~6 months away though
[19:02] <h3sp4wn> If the specs are freely available - my money would be on XiG having the best drivers (they have for years now)
[19:02] <SeveredCross> XiG?
[19:03] <wfarr> Is anyone in here particularly knowledgeable or familiar with the alternate (text-based) installer?
[19:03] <mbt> any idea if there is a nouveau like project publicly available for ati cards?
[19:04] <SeveredCross> I thought Avivo was the ATI card equivalent?
[19:04] <SeveredCross> Or at least a project named Avivo
[19:04] <SeveredCross> Unrelated to the ATI video technology.
[19:04] <wfarr> mbt: 'radeon' is the only comparable driver in that case, I think
[19:04] <mbt> i might have to try that one out, then... the only two that i have tried thus far are ati and fglrx
[19:05] <wfarr> ati == radeon, as far as xorg is concerned
[19:05] <wfarr> it's only really decent on older cards
[19:05] <mbt> ahh alrighty
[19:08] <h3sp4wn> SeveredCross: http://www.xig.com/Pages/Edu/OpenSourceATI.pdf (dunno what makes this time any different to last time both parties had the specs)
[22:00] <MenZa> Hmm, when I try to update my Hardy box (it's Hardy currently), it tells me I need to do a full distribution update (with update-manager). It can't authenticate my packages and errors on it.
[22:00] <mbt> it should prompt you to continue, not error out
[22:00] <mbt> where is it erroring out?
[22:01] <MenZa> nevermind me; I'm an idiot. an aptitude update fixed it.
[22:01] <MenZa> It just says it can't authenticate packages and lists a ton of packages, from cups to compiz and so on
[22:01] <mbt> right, and the gui should let you continue
[22:01] <MenZa> It prompts me first, but then it gives me an error.
[22:01] <MenZa> It doesn't.
[22:01] <mbt> basically saying "okay, they are unauthenticated, so what"
[22:01] <mbt> lol
[22:02] <MenZa> Nope, just says it can't upgrade because it can't authenticate them
[22:02] <mbt> hrm.  what was the error text?
[22:02] <MenZa> meh, updating my sources fixed it
[22:02] <MenZa> I don't recall
[22:02] <MenZa> :p
[22:02] <mbt> k
[22:02] <mbt> well if you come across it again, i would file that as a bug
[22:02] <MenZa> I will
[22:02]  * MenZa is still happy with how stable Hardy is, compared to its development stage
[22:03] <MenZa> then again, all Ubuntu dev releases I've used since Dapper were quite good
[22:03] <mbt> The only release I had issues with during the Alpha was Gutsy
[22:03] <mbt> I put this on my laptop to test it, though, and I have actually not booted back into Gutsy yet.
[22:03] <mbt> lol
[22:03] <MenZa> I just use Hardy on my laptop because Gutsy is really annoying when it comes to ALSA
[22:04] <MenZa> badly-compiled module or something
[22:04] <MenZa> works fine on Hardy
[22:04]  * MenZa shrugs.
[22:04] <mbt> Though it seems that there is some breakage in APT
[22:05] <MenZa> Looking at bug reports?
[22:05]  * MenZa checks launchpad.
[22:05] <mbt> No, I think I am about to file one though as soon as I can figure out what is causing my own issue
[22:05] <MenZa> aha
[22:05] <Pici> Theres always apt dependency breakage in hardy
[22:05] <mbt> I pinned my coreutils to that which came with Hardy, and it keeps wanting to upgrade to the one in my PPA, even though it is pinned
[22:05] <MenZa> lol
[22:06] <MenZa> Pici: I can imagine.
[22:06] <mbt> And it then did in fact upgrade, but every time I run apt-get upgrade, it says "We need to upgrade again."
[22:06] <MenZa> I just find it weird why this insists on running a "Distribution" upgrade
[22:06] <MenZa> hmm
[22:06] <mbt> And so it unpacks it and sets it up
[22:06] <mbt> Well, that is because core packages changed
[22:06] <MenZa> I see
[22:06] <Pici> I always full-upgrade
[22:07] <MenZa> Pici: I just use update-manager
[22:07] <MenZa> easier
[22:07] <MenZa> hmm
[22:07] <MenZa> I'm scared to reboot now ._.
[22:07] <MenZa> :p
[22:07] <mbt> eh, you have the installer on CD, right?
[22:07] <Pici> I have an alias that does sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude  full-upgrade
[22:07]  * MenZa does it nonetheless.
[22:07] <MenZa> mbt: The installer on CD?
[22:07] <mbt> MenZa: Yeah.
[22:07] <mbt> MenZa: If you do, then don't be scurred, you can bring the Alpha back from the dead if it kills itself.  :)
[22:08] <MenZa> hehehe
[22:08] <MenZa> I don't think I do
[22:08] <MenZa> I'll download it on my desktop if I need it
[22:08] <MenZa> Works fine after a reboot.
[22:08] <MenZa> :)
[22:08]  * MenZa crosses fingers, hoping it will log in
[22:09] <MenZa> Ah, logs in fine
[22:09] <MenZa> Thank God
[22:09] <MenZa> oh yeah
[22:09] <MenZa> I need to re-compile my wifi driver
[22:09] <MenZa> typical
[22:09]  * MenZa growls
[22:10] <MenZa> Pici: what is this alias, out of curiosity?
[22:10] <Pici> MenZa: hmm? I made it myself.
[22:10] <Pici> full-upgrade runs that ^
[22:10] <MenZa> ahh
[22:11] <MenZa> yes, it was the title of the alias I wanted. .D
[22:11] <MenZa> :D*
[22:11] <h3sp4wn> I have had cron-apt - running safe-upgrade
[22:11] <h3sp4wn> for a few months (to prove to myself that aptitude never messes up whilst apt-get does all the time)
[22:11] <MenZa> hehehe
[22:11] <MenZa> mm, this emerald theme makes me happy
[22:13] <MenZa> whee
[22:13] <MenZa> I have working intertubes
[22:13] <MenZa> <3 madwifi
[22:13] <MenZa> </3 having to re-compile for each new kernel
[22:13] <h3sp4wn> using custom patches ?
[22:14] <MenZa> just a madwifi kernel module; I have to use an svn version for it to support my card
[22:14] <MenZa> revision 2756 to be exact
[22:14] <MenZa> with a patch applied
[22:14] <h3sp4wn> for the eepc ?
[22:14] <MenZa> nope
[22:14] <MenZa> Toshiba Satellite L40-10Q
[22:14] <MenZa> it's an atheros network
[22:14] <MenZa> + card
[22:15] <h3sp4wn> Is it the patch atheros sent that breaks all other targets except i386
[22:16] <MenZa> yup
[22:16] <MenZa> :D
[22:16] <MenZa> thank God for i386. <3
[22:24] <MenZa> 7w 55
[22:36] <mbt> wow
[22:36] <mbt> how do you break everything but ia32
[22:38] <Seveas> use ia32 specific code in code that should be arch-independent
[22:38] <Seveas> not too hard
[22:39] <mbt> well, we aren't using assembly language, and shouldn't c code be abstracted in some way to isolate from ia32isms?
[22:40] <mbt> is there nothing in the kernel-space that does that, like providing some sort of small runtime for drivers that abstract away the platform differences?
[23:25] <forsaken> is there a good place to follow changes that are happening in the alpha's? I'm running it and just curious whats being done on it :)
[23:40] <forsaken> my /var/www has permissions of: ?---------  ? ?    ?        ?                ? www, and i can't delete it as root, anyone know whats up with that?