/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/01/04/#ubuntu+1.txt

=== tritium_ is now known as tritium
hitpython-glade2 has just got broken00:46
hiti'm asked to do apt-get install -f, but it will remove almost everything00:46
hitincluding ubuntu-desktop and so on00:46
h3sp4wnhit: use aptitude00:54
h3sp4wnsee what it suggests00:54
hitalso my tab isnt working anymore in terminal00:55
hitaptitude seemd work00:56
hitbut this tab-thing00:57
hitworks with folders, but that's all00:57
h3sp4wnthere is no folders01:07
hitah what the hell01:17
hit*compiling supertux*01:18
mbtanyone know why the terminal is now attempting to transliterate unicode characters when they are input?01:50
graftyo, any idea when all these kde4 packages are going to be un-broken?03:29
Hobbsee"when they're done"03:35
dastalanyone here use usenet?04:19
=== tritium_ is now known as tritium
igooglehi guys05:15
mbtello05:15
igooglei use 8.04 now05:17
igoogleit always shutdown05:17
mbtWhat do you mean?05:18
=== Vorian_ is now known as vorian
mbtAnyone notice some breakage in the terminal in Hardy, particularly with respect to unicode character input and output?05:22
graftnope, no breakage here05:53
graftwell, dnno about input05:53
graftbut output seems fine05:53
grafti think05:53
bazhangsame here05:53
mbtjust seems that man pages do not appear right (lots of unicode ? markings of missing glyphs).  On entering unicode char 2122, I get a transliterated (TM) instead of ™.05:54
mbtSame for the copyright, reg trademark, æ and œ symbols and ligatures.05:54
bazhangwell it is alpha 2 :}05:55
grafthrmmm05:55
graftusing http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/examples/UTF-8-demo.txt i get lots of boxen05:55
mbtEgads.  Same here.  I had not thought to try that file.05:56
graftbut i have no idea how it compares to gutsy05:56
graftoh wait i have a gutsy box, hold on a sec05:56
mbtI am using the settings from my Gutsy box---unicode in gnome-terminal was working great for me there.05:57
graftoh wait, the terminal is the same, duh05:57
mbt"man ls" has issues for me, too05:57
graftseems similar in gutsy05:58
mbtI thought maybe something was up, but when I rebooted back to Gutsy it all works correctly, no transliterating and such05:58
graftactually seems better in hardy05:58
grafthrm... well seems different in hardy, anyway05:58
mbtI noticed the transliterating only because I use an international keyboard, and now résumé appears as "r?sum?" on the terminal05:58
graftseems odd06:00
grafti'm using konsole06:00
graftseems like some glyphs were added, some were lost06:01
mbtDoes Konsole/KDE let you enter arbitrary unicode characters with the keyboard?06:01
graftprobably, using SKIM or whatever, but i dunno how06:05
bazhangarbitrary as in other language?06:06
mbtAlrighty.  Well, I think I am going to file a bug---it is frustrating to be seemingly limited once again to a subset of American English characters.06:06
mbtAs in GNOME, where you can press Left Control+Left Shift+u, then type the unicode code point followed by a space.  e.g., C-S-u, then 2122 <SPC>, gets ™06:07
mbtYou can do that with any valid Unicode character, and if there is a glyph in the font for it, it should show up.06:07
spr0k3tmbt: learned something new... thanks06:07
mbtspr0k3t: NP.  I have a page with more info on that, actually, and some common characters:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fd0man/Information/GNOME-Unicode06:08
spr0k3tI have a friend of mine who was looking for this just the other day.  They couldn't find the | on a finish keyboard using the en_us layout.06:10
mbtASCII pipe, solid bar, or split bar? (there are three distinct code points that I know of for them)06:11
spr0k3tASCII pipe06:11
mbtShould be Shift+\06:11
mbtOn an American layout.06:11
spr0k3tthe \ didn't exist on the finish keyboard since the enter key is the full L the the backspace isn't split06:12
spr0k3tat least, using the en_us layout on the finish keyboard.  seemed weird06:12
mbtAhh.  Not entirely sure then, lol.  It is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar06:13
mbtCharacter 0x7c06:13
=== m1ke is now known as m1ke_away
=== ajmorris is now known as ajmorris|AFCLI
=== ajmorris|AFCLI is now known as ajmorris
=== Dannilionz is now known as Dannilion
=== Tomcat_` is now known as Tomcat_
scizzo-hey all...I have added a forum thread about fixing the 100% fan problems on nvidia drivers that is in hardy at the moment12:35
=== Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee
virtuelvdoes language packs break for everyone in alpha 2?13:21
=== Infecto_ is now known as Infecto
=== bmk789_ is now known as bmk789
=== nanonyme_ is now known as nanonyme
=== lakin_ is now known as lakin
telexiconIs updating broken atm? I'm getting "E: Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on libstdc++6"17:37
mbtyou have to install it first --17:37
mbtsudo apt-get install libstdc++617:37
mbtthen you should be able to update17:37
mbtdon't know why that worked, but that is what got it going for me.17:37
telexiconso why is it forcing me to install it when im doing update + upgrade ...17:37
mbti found that solution on the forums17:37
telexiconok17:38
mbti don't know---i don't understand (yet) the internals of APT17:38
telexiconi think its a mistake17:38
mbtwell, yeah, it is a bug somewhere17:38
=== macd_ is now known as macd
pmratpoisonI read that kubuntu hardy won't be officially supported. Will it have kde 4?18:22
mbtkde 4 is a long, long away from being usable generally and stable18:22
mbtit will probably have it as an unsupported option18:22
pmratpoisonif I have ati and I want to use compiz, will I have to do it over xgl, or with AIGLX?18:23
mbtif you use the very latest ati driver, it supports aiglx, but it is kinda buggy18:23
pmratpoisonDo you know when the new and improved open driver will be released? what is the progress?18:24
pmratpoison(I'm referring to ATI of course)18:25
mbtnot sure18:28
mbti know that there is supposed to be one, and personally, i cannot wait for it, but it will probably be at least another year or two18:29
SeveredCross7.11/7.12 are good,.18:39
SeveredCrossBut Compiz is fuxxed18:39
SeveredCrossIt checks for GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap and claims that the ATI driver doesn't have it.18:39
SeveredCrossHowever, if I do exactly what it does to check for it, it exists.18:39
mbtoh?18:39
SeveredCrossYeah.18:39
mbti was wondering about that18:39
mbti had compiz working under gutsy, but it flat out told me "no" on hardy18:40
SeveredCrossThe glxinfo output on my ATI system (Catalyst 7.11) says that GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is present.18:40
SeveredCrossYeah, same for me.18:40
SeveredCrossBut, when compiz runs the check, it fails.18:40
SeveredCrossAnd then it fails with indirect rendering too.18:40
SeveredCrossI think it's a Compiz bug and not an ATI driver issue, because it worked on Gutsy.18:40
* SeveredCross smells a regression,18:40
mbtwell, someone who knows a thing about graphics and gl will have to look into that one... i can't.  i am working on another (very old) annoyance atm18:41
SeveredCrossbojan@sirius:~$ glxinfo | grep -c GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap18:41
SeveredCross218:41
SeveredCrossNow, the problem is, Compiz looks for gt 2.18:41
PiciTheres a bug logged for that.18:42
SeveredCrossYeah, I found it.18:42
PiciI've been subscribed for a while, but havent seen any activity recently on it18:42
SeveredCrossHas anyone figured out what the regression was from Gutsy to Hardy that broke that?18:42
mbtwhat is the bug #18:43
PiciI'm guessing new fglrx.18:43
SeveredCrossNo, because it worked in Gutsy.18:43
AmaranthWhat bug number?18:43
PiciBut there were new fglrx drivers in hardy...18:43
PiciBug 17366318:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 173663 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "compiz will not launch with fglrx driver - falls back to metacity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17366318:43
SeveredCrossPici: I did it in Gutsy with the same fglrx driver that's in Hardy--catalyst 7.1118:43
AmaranthSeveredCross: Pastebin glxinfo and the output when you run compiz18:44
SeveredCrossIt jumped into Indirect Rendering mode because that grep count wasn't >2, it is exactly 2, but it worked.18:44
AmaranthDude we don't check > 218:44
Amaranthoh, we do, someone changed that :P18:45
AmaranthBut what that means is that while both the server and the client support it they're not talking to each other so it's not a supported extension18:45
AmaranthWhich means: your driver is broken18:45
SeveredCrosshttp://pastebin.com/m6bef129e18:45
SeveredCrossHmm. That's really odd, because it worked on Gutsy.18:46
mbtsame here18:46
PiciAmaranth: Can you suggest and/or change that bug so that someone looks at it?18:46
SeveredCrossAnd are you sure that they don't check >2?18:46
SeveredCrossif [ $($GLXINFO 2>/dev/null | grep GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap -c) -gt 2 ] ; then18:46
SeveredCrossLine 15518:46
SeveredCrossEr, 159.18:46
SeveredCross/usr/bin/compiz18:46
Amaranthyes, i see, someone changed it :)18:46
Amaranthbut it is a correct check18:46
Amaranth#18:46
AmaranthGLX extensions:18:46
Amaranth#18:46
Amaranth    GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,18:46
Amaranth#18:46
Amaranth    GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_OML_swap_method,18:47
Amaranth#18:47
PiciIt wont work even if its changed.18:47
Amaranth    GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group18:47
Amarantherr, that pasted wrong18:47
SeveredCrossI know it won't work if it's changed, I'm just pointing out the fact.18:47
PiciYes.18:47
PiciYes it did.18:47
Amaranthdo you see GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap in there? that's where it needed to be18:47
AmaranthWhich means...your driver is broken18:47
SeveredCrossAgain, that doesn't answer the question of why it worked on Gutsy.18:47
AmaranthBecause your driver worked with xserver 1.318:47
Amaranthhardy is xserver 1.418:47
SeveredCross<_>18:48
SeveredCrossThe indirect rendering stuff changed.18:48
SeveredCrossThat would explain it. I didn't check that.18:48
AmaranthThe ddx (driver) API/ABI changed18:48
AmaranthNot a compiz bug, that's all I know or care about :)18:49
SeveredCrossSo just gotta wait for ATI to catch up on the xserver API/ABI.18:49
AmaranthSeveredCross: Try 7.1218:50
SeveredCrossHas resolution issues, no good.18:51
SeveredCrossDrops me to 1280xsomething rather than my full 1440x900.18:51
SeveredCrossI'll wait for 7.1318:52
AmaranthThat's ATI for you18:52
AmaranthFix one thing, break another18:52
SeveredCrossThey're getting better though. ^_^18:52
Amaranthnvidia is almost just as bad18:52
mbtso wait, the fix is new driver or roll back xserver, is that right?18:52
AmaranthYou do not want to roll back the xserver18:52
SeveredCrossYeah.18:52
Amaranthcatalyst 7.12 might help18:53
mbtwell, of course not lol i don't mess with modular X at all18:53
mbttoo many interoperability issues are possible18:54
mbtmeh, i will just wait.  dreamy windows are not that important to me personally, they are just cool18:55
Amaranth"In addition, AMD will be open-sourcing part of their new proprietary OpenGL driver and will be in a state so that it can be patched into the existing R300+ Mesa driver."18:55
Amaranththat's cool18:55
PiciThats neat18:55
mbtit will be very nice when ati drivers perform as good as or better than nvidia ones... this is the only ati system i have, and it has been one frustrating thing after another with that proprietary blob18:56
AmaranthI'm hoping nouveau gets 3d support soon18:57
Amaranththat's probably ~6 months away though18:57
h3sp4wnIf the specs are freely available - my money would be on XiG having the best drivers (they have for years now)19:02
SeveredCrossXiG?19:02
wfarrIs anyone in here particularly knowledgeable or familiar with the alternate (text-based) installer?19:03
mbtany idea if there is a nouveau like project publicly available for ati cards?19:03
SeveredCrossI thought Avivo was the ATI card equivalent?19:04
SeveredCrossOr at least a project named Avivo19:04
SeveredCrossUnrelated to the ATI video technology.19:04
wfarrmbt: 'radeon' is the only comparable driver in that case, I think19:04
mbti might have to try that one out, then... the only two that i have tried thus far are ati and fglrx19:04
wfarrati == radeon, as far as xorg is concerned19:05
wfarrit's only really decent on older cards19:05
mbtahh alrighty19:05
h3sp4wnSeveredCross: http://www.xig.com/Pages/Edu/OpenSourceATI.pdf (dunno what makes this time any different to last time both parties had the specs)19:08
=== dmb_ is now known as dmb
MenZaHmm, when I try to update my Hardy box (it's Hardy currently), it tells me I need to do a full distribution update (with update-manager). It can't authenticate my packages and errors on it.22:00
mbtit should prompt you to continue, not error out22:00
mbtwhere is it erroring out?22:00
MenZanevermind me; I'm an idiot. an aptitude update fixed it.22:01
MenZaIt just says it can't authenticate packages and lists a ton of packages, from cups to compiz and so on22:01
mbtright, and the gui should let you continue22:01
MenZaIt prompts me first, but then it gives me an error.22:01
MenZaIt doesn't.22:01
mbtbasically saying "okay, they are unauthenticated, so what"22:01
mbtlol22:01
MenZaNope, just says it can't upgrade because it can't authenticate them22:02
mbthrm.  what was the error text?22:02
MenZameh, updating my sources fixed it22:02
MenZaI don't recall22:02
MenZa:p22:02
mbtk22:02
mbtwell if you come across it again, i would file that as a bug22:02
MenZaI will22:02
* MenZa is still happy with how stable Hardy is, compared to its development stage22:02
MenZathen again, all Ubuntu dev releases I've used since Dapper were quite good22:03
mbtThe only release I had issues with during the Alpha was Gutsy22:03
mbtI put this on my laptop to test it, though, and I have actually not booted back into Gutsy yet.22:03
mbtlol22:03
MenZaI just use Hardy on my laptop because Gutsy is really annoying when it comes to ALSA22:03
MenZabadly-compiled module or something22:04
MenZaworks fine on Hardy22:04
* MenZa shrugs.22:04
mbtThough it seems that there is some breakage in APT22:04
MenZaLooking at bug reports?22:05
* MenZa checks launchpad.22:05
mbtNo, I think I am about to file one though as soon as I can figure out what is causing my own issue22:05
MenZaaha22:05
PiciTheres always apt dependency breakage in hardy22:05
mbtI pinned my coreutils to that which came with Hardy, and it keeps wanting to upgrade to the one in my PPA, even though it is pinned22:05
MenZalol22:05
MenZaPici: I can imagine.22:06
mbtAnd it then did in fact upgrade, but every time I run apt-get upgrade, it says "We need to upgrade again."22:06
MenZaI just find it weird why this insists on running a "Distribution" upgrade22:06
MenZahmm22:06
mbtAnd so it unpacks it and sets it up22:06
mbtWell, that is because core packages changed22:06
MenZaI see22:06
PiciI always full-upgrade22:06
MenZaPici: I just use update-manager22:07
MenZaeasier22:07
MenZahmm22:07
MenZaI'm scared to reboot now ._.22:07
MenZa:p22:07
mbteh, you have the installer on CD, right?22:07
PiciI have an alias that does sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude  full-upgrade22:07
* MenZa does it nonetheless.22:07
MenZambt: The installer on CD?22:07
mbtMenZa: Yeah.22:07
mbtMenZa: If you do, then don't be scurred, you can bring the Alpha back from the dead if it kills itself.  :)22:07
MenZahehehe22:08
MenZaI don't think I do22:08
MenZaI'll download it on my desktop if I need it22:08
MenZaWorks fine after a reboot.22:08
MenZa:)22:08
* MenZa crosses fingers, hoping it will log in22:08
MenZaAh, logs in fine22:09
MenZaThank God22:09
MenZaoh yeah22:09
MenZaI need to re-compile my wifi driver22:09
MenZatypical22:09
* MenZa growls22:09
MenZaPici: what is this alias, out of curiosity?22:10
PiciMenZa: hmm? I made it myself.22:10
Picifull-upgrade runs that ^22:10
MenZaahh22:10
MenZayes, it was the title of the alias I wanted. .D22:11
MenZa:D*22:11
h3sp4wnI have had cron-apt - running safe-upgrade22:11
h3sp4wnfor a few months (to prove to myself that aptitude never messes up whilst apt-get does all the time)22:11
MenZahehehe22:11
MenZamm, this emerald theme makes me happy22:11
MenZawhee22:13
MenZaI have working intertubes22:13
MenZa<3 madwifi22:13
MenZa</3 having to re-compile for each new kernel22:13
h3sp4wnusing custom patches ?22:13
MenZajust a madwifi kernel module; I have to use an svn version for it to support my card22:14
MenZarevision 2756 to be exact22:14
MenZawith a patch applied22:14
h3sp4wnfor the eepc ?22:14
MenZanope22:14
MenZaToshiba Satellite L40-10Q22:14
MenZait's an atheros network22:14
MenZa+ card22:14
h3sp4wnIs it the patch atheros sent that breaks all other targets except i38622:15
MenZayup22:16
MenZa:D22:16
MenZathank God for i386. <322:16
MenZa7w 5522:24
mbtwow22:36
mbthow do you break everything but ia3222:36
Seveasuse ia32 specific code in code that should be arch-independent22:38
Seveasnot too hard22:38
mbtwell, we aren't using assembly language, and shouldn't c code be abstracted in some way to isolate from ia32isms?22:39
mbtis there nothing in the kernel-space that does that, like providing some sort of small runtime for drivers that abstract away the platform differences?22:40
=== ajmorris is now known as ajmorris|AFCLI
forsakenis there a good place to follow changes that are happening in the alpha's? I'm running it and just curious whats being done on it :)23:25
forsakenmy /var/www has permissions of: ?---------  ? ?    ?        ?                ? www, and i can't delete it as root, anyone know whats up with that?23:40

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