[00:01] forsaken: did you fsck the partition on which /var/www resides? [00:02] no [00:03] its my / [00:03] boot from a live cd, then fsck it === Spec is now known as x-spec-t [00:25] Hi, I'm trying to block ICMP requests with an iptables rule but can't get them to be picked up by the rule. Could the kernel be intercepting these before getting to the iptables rules? [01:32] I can see a couple of problems with Compiz in Hardy---are they common? === jacobmp92 is now known as jacob [02:35] Hi, I can't get past "Error 15" in grub, both with alpha 2 and now the daily build. Installation works fine for me, but it's just grub that seems to be failing. I have played around with reinstalling grub, but it appears that something is missing in my hardy install. Anyone have any ideas? [02:49] Hewus, i have seen several bug reports on this sort of behavior [02:54] hey guys [02:54] my toolbars disappeared in hardy [02:54] in gnome [02:54] how do I get them back [02:56] use gutsy [02:58] can't [02:58] brand new t61p laptop [02:58] gutsy doesn't have drivers for it [02:58] what video card? [02:59] nvidia Quattro 570M I believe [03:00] does everything work if you turn off compiz? [03:00] it's also the brand new wireless drivers and gigabit ethernet drivers and such [03:00] it's a pain [03:00] crdlb: how di Turn off compiz [03:00] system>preferences>appearance>visual effects>none [03:00] would be nice if I could get to that tool bar [03:01] ohh [03:01] by toolbar you mean panel? [03:01] yes [03:01] panel is gone [03:01] compiz is off [03:01] toolbars are there [03:08] jtt: Could you please point me in the direction of these bug reports? I've had a bit of a look but can't find anything myself [03:08] Hewus, ok hold on [03:09] are you familiar with launchpad [03:10] Hewus, are you familiar with launchpad.net [03:10] jtt: partially, I've looked all through here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy [03:10] !bugs [03:10] If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu - Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots [03:11] Hewus, just go to launchpad.net enter 176984 in search dialog select search [03:12] that is just one of the ones similar to what you are seeing there are 2-3 more [03:12] 2-3 more similar but each one is grub related [03:12] having problems with grub booting etc. [03:13] do you know how to make a grub floppy [03:13] i keep one around for just that sort of problem that way if [03:13] the installation is ok i can boot into it using the floppy [03:14] I have gutsy on another partition, I have been able to get back to it via super grub disk [03:14] btw 177951 is another with grub problems [03:14] sorry, is this the bug you mean? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/176984. I can't find any mention of grub [03:14] Launchpad bug 176984 in ubuntu "update manager crash and doesn't update" [Undecided,New] [03:16] yes sorry wrong bug number hold on [03:16] Hewus: fyi, bugs are not logged under the releases, they are logged under the packages. [03:17] Hewus, 177951 is definitely one [03:17] Pici: thanks for the info :-) [03:17] bug 177951 [03:17] Launchpad bug 177951 in update-manager "installation failure (grub)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177951 [03:18] Hewus, also 177388 [03:23] pici how do you know how i can search launchpad for the pattern dpkg --configure -a [03:23] jtt: I dont know, but perhaps the chaps in #launchpad do [03:24] good point i saw several of those bugs and i want to mark them duplicates === noobuntu is now known as n00buntu [03:31] jtt: these bugs suggest that something has noticeably gone wrong during the installation (such as the error at 94%). My installation runs just fine, ending with it asking me to restart. I even reinstalled grub before and copied the hardy entry into my menu.lst, and gutsy would boot just fine with it's entry but hardy would still error 15. [03:31] it's as if something is missing [03:32] Hewus, interesting that is a little different [03:32] 'find /boot/grub/stage1' gives '(hd0,0) (hd1,0)', where the first is gutsy and the second is my attempt at hardy [03:32] let me think a moment [03:33] jtt: thank you for your help :-) [03:33] is the root= on the kernel line root=UUID... or is it root=/dev/h... [03:34] jtt: I can always go back to gutsy so it's not urgent if we can't find a solution, but I'd really like to get this working! :D [03:34] it's UUID= [03:34] ok boot into gutsy and mount the hardy slice and execute [03:34] blkid /dev/h... on the hardy slice [03:35] then look in the menu.lst you are booting with and see if the UUID's match [03:36] error 15 says it cant find the file not sure if it means the kernel boot file [03:36] or the root slice it uses after booting [03:39] jtt: I'm on the livecd atm. I've just checked using vol_id and it is currently different from that in the menu.lst since I added it manually for alpha 2 and have since reinstalled with the daily but forgot to change. [03:40] jtt: I will change it over now and restart to test it, I'll be back on either gutsy or hardy depending on the results :P [03:40] then that is probably the problem that bit me once also [03:41] and it does change each time you do a new install on a slice [03:41] good luck [03:41] jtt: thank you [03:54] jtt: back on gutsy :-( [03:55] didnt work huh? [03:55] again, it gives error 15 on hardy but fine for gutsy [03:55] jtt: it did not. Hold on I'll do an ls or something [04:04] jtt: I have gutsy on sda1 and hardy on sdb1. I'm not 100% on how grub and the MBR works, but I want it to go on sda/sda1/hd(0,0), whatever it's called. When I first install hardy, /boot has everything gutsy has, except the entire /boot/grub folder, and the initrd.img file (the .bak is there). Booting this goes straight to error 15. I then go back to the livecd, 'sudo grub, root (hd0,0), setup (hd0), quit', and on restart the grub [04:04] menu will appear with gutsy available. I also note at this point, the previously missing files appear in my hardy /boot. I have put the hardy option into my menu.lst too, but it just gives error 15 when I select that option. [04:04] That's pretty much everything about my issue :P [04:05] I was going to do ls on /boot to show the missing files, but I realised after I just reinstalled grub, it created all those files (note, in the /boot of the hardy install) [04:05] is hardy and gutsy on same disk physical disk [04:05] jtt: no [04:06] ok two disks [04:06] !pastebin [04:06] pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic) [04:07] http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50818/ where sda1 is gutsy and sdb1 is hardy [04:07] are you sure you have something like (hd0,N) for one and (hd1,N) for the [04:07] other on the root line in menu.lst [04:07] ok let me look at pastebin [04:10] my gutsy menu.lst with the entry for hardy manually added http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50819/ and the entry that is created on hardy partition once I manually create grub using the commands listed previously http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50820/ [04:10] good i was going to ask you for that [04:10] :-) [04:12] jtt: thank you for being so helpful with this, it is greatly appreciated [04:12] ok hold on i am looking at both files [04:15] Hewus, when you mount /dev/sdb1 as say /mnt and do an ls do you have a boot directory listed [04:16] i.e. do you see a directory /mnt/boot [04:16] jtt: yes; http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50821/ [04:16] ok hold on [04:18] where is the /hardy coming from it should show /mnt/boot [04:18] jtt: note that the initrd file and /boot/grub directory did not exist immediately after installation, only once I ran grub myself. I'm not really sure how grub works in this way, but imo there is no need for that menu.list, and possibly all that stuff it added [04:18] yes sorry, I mounted to /mnt/hardy [04:18] I have many things in /mnt as you may have guessed from my fdisk -l [04:19] ok hold on [04:20] menu.lst is definitely required always [04:21] you say the initrd... file did not exist after reboot? [04:21] jtt: but on both partitions? surely it only needs to be on sda1 [04:22] jtt: correct. After the installation of hardy, initrd.img-2.6.24-2-generic and the whole /boot/grub directory did not exist [04:22] where ever the last OS was installed, that is the menu.lst file that will be read by the MBR [04:22] so hardy on sdb1 was the last one installed ? [04:23] jtt: yep that's what I mean, however when I remade grub in an attempt to solve this issue, it created a menu.lst on the hardy partition too, although it doesn't use it [04:23] jtt: correct [04:23] ah I see what you're saying [04:23] so it should be using the one on hardy now? [04:23] how do you boot to gutsy with a floppy or by the grub menu [04:24] yes the one on hardy so check its UUID's etc. and see how those match up [04:24] I do not have a floppy drive. I use the livecd and do 'sudo grub, root (hd0,0), setup (hd0), quit' then I restart and I get my menu.lst (from gutsy) which lets me boot [04:25] the UUID is correct [04:25] if that is the case then you are using the menu.lst from sda1 [04:25] yes [04:26] hold on [04:26] does the uuid on line 143 match the output of blkid for /dev/sdb1 [04:27] in the menu.lst file line 143 [04:28] hmm it does not.. I just used blkid for the first time, it was displaying correctly using vol_id [04:28] I shall change it in menu.lst and try again! [04:28] that is probably the problem the UUID in 143 must match the UUID of /dev/sdb1 [04:28] yes, thank you [04:29] restarting [04:35] jtt: again, no success :-( [04:35] how strange, I was so confident this time [04:35] me too [04:36] ok where did the initrd come from [04:36] when I ran those grub commands [04:37] interesting i didnt think grub created the initrd file i was sure that came with the kernel [04:37] I did a fresh install of hardy, and no initrd. This results in error 15, no menu displayed. [04:37] I can reinstall hardy again to make sure [04:37] no hold on lets work with what you have [04:38] ok [04:38] blkid http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50822/ [04:38] pastebin me the grug menu.lst from sda1 [04:38] s/grug/grub [04:39] http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50823/ [04:47] Hewus, ok let me look back at how you loaded grub with the live cd [04:50] Hewus, do you know how to edit the grub menu entrys when it is displayed [04:50] after error 15. I start the livecd, open a terminal, type 'sudo grub'. 'find /boot/grub/stage1' lists (hd0,0) and (hd1,0). I then do 'root (hd0,0)' and 'setup (hd0)' before I do 'quit'. Then I reboot and have my menu, with the broken hardy entry [04:51] jtt: from the menu itself? no [04:51] jtt: only from editing menu.lst [04:52] ok it is easy to edit the menu dynamically but changes only last for that boot they are not written to menu.lst [04:52] here is what i want you to do [04:53] * Hewus listens [04:53] first of all are u able to boot into gutsy right now w/o using the live cd business [04:54] yes, the menu entry for gutsy works fine [04:54] when I select the hardy entry, it says "Error 15: File not found" and I think I press escape to go back to the menu, where I can load gutsy [04:54] ok good good [04:55] ok i want you to reboot but hold on [04:55] first write down the UUID of sdb1 and sda1 [04:55] then boot [04:56] when you get the grub menu [04:56] arrow down to hardy entry [04:56] when hardy entry is highlighted/selected then [04:56] press the e key [04:56] this places you in grub limited edit mode [04:57] look at the display is the root entry (hd1,0) [04:57] arrow down to kernel entry [04:58] does the uuid in the kernel line match the sdb1 UUID you wrote down [04:58] does the vmlinuz and initrd path names look like /boot/.... [04:59] i know you cant capture that info so just look it over and then come back [04:59] after you have rebooted into gutsy and we will figure out what to do [05:00] do next [05:00] ok if you got all that then reboot [05:01] the interesting thing is i dont see any discrepancy in any [05:01] of the pastebin files you sent me so we need to look at [05:01] what grub is actually seeing [05:01] when it tries to boot [05:02] * Hewus is writing this all down with old-fashioned pen and paper [05:02] good [05:02] you know i wonder if it is possible that sdb1 is hd2 and not hd1 [05:03] are sda1 and sdb1 on the same data cable [05:04] it's SATA so they have separate cables [05:04] each one has it own cable? [05:04] yes [05:04] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATA [05:05] ok, all good to restart now? [05:05] ok [05:05] brb! === bigon is now known as bigon` [05:12] jtt: the root entry is indeed (hd1,0). The UUID is correctly that of sdb1. Now, what do you mean by vmlinuz? is that it's own line? If so it didn't exist. [05:13] I will write up what it said into pastebin [05:14] vmlinuz would be on the kernel line before the UUID entry [05:15] ok lets look at pastebin [05:15] jtt: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50825/ [05:15] yes, I wasn't sure what you meant, if it was its own line like initrd. I guess that is correct then [05:19] ok hold on [05:22] i guess the word arrow means you saw a physical arrow > at that point? [05:22] because the rest of the line looks ok [05:23] did you say you know how to use find in grub? [05:23] yes I saw an arrow symbol [05:23] so afaik, it's correct [05:24] yes, I have used find [05:24] I followed this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows [05:24] ok then reboot and get into the grub menu [05:24] the quick start section [05:25] ah, this is from the menu? I do this in a terminal after doing sudo grub [05:25] so I press e or something again? [05:25] then do a find on the /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-2-generic on line 2 of the pastebin you just sent me and see if it is found on hd1,0 [05:26] yes when you get the grub menu [05:26] no wait a minute [05:26] let me think that thru [05:26] sure [05:26] hang on [05:27] I did it just then in a terminal: find /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-2-generic (hd1,0) [05:28] yeah that is what i wanted [05:29] do a find for the initrd file that is on the line below the kernel line [05:29] no i am sorry [05:29] execute grub from a command line just where you are [05:30] then do the find [05:30] Well I did it: find /boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-2-generic (hd1,0) [05:30] from grub [05:30] yea that's what I'm doing [05:30] ok [05:30] then find the initrd file also [05:31] I just did, previous message [05:31] ok i see that [05:31] unmount /dev/sdb1 and execute e2fsck /dev/sdb1 [05:32] see what you get [05:32] /dev/sdb1: clean, 102648/3450272 files, 672539/6895893 blocks === ajmorris|AFCLI is now known as ajmorris [05:33] execute e2fsck -f /dev/sdb1 [05:33] let is run thru forcing the checks [05:34] it's running now (note I'm using sudo for this like I think I have to) [05:34] yes [05:34] http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50826/ [05:35] you did execute the find commands from within the grub shell right? [05:36] yes http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50827/ [05:36] if by grub shell you mean Applications->terminal then 'sudo grub' [05:36] yes exactly you did it correctly [05:37] well my good man i know that error 15 is not finding a file but [05:37] I am stumped with this one everything [05:37] no worries, thanks so much for your help! [05:37] appears correct but it wont boot weird [05:37] yes it's very strange [05:38] ok sorry we failed i dont usually have this sort of problem with grub [05:38] it been great you have done a great job i am going to turn in [05:38] later [05:38] haha yea it's ok, I've been using ubuntu for a while and have always been able to fix the grub issues too [05:38] cya [07:37] hey [07:38] is their a way to load the live cd into ram at boot like with pclinuxos? [07:47] !info networkmanager [07:47] Package networkmanager does not exist in hardy [07:47] !info network-manager [07:47] network-manager: network management framework daemon. In component main, is optional. Version 0.6.5-0ubuntu17 (hardy), package size 148 kB, installed size 552 kB === _ajmorris_ is now known as ajmorris [08:17] Enabling scrolling on my synaptics touchpad? It used to be enabled by default it gutsy.. === Tomcat_` is now known as Tomcat_ === _ajmorris_ is now known as ajmorris [10:33] libpixman-1.so [10:42] moin [10:54] gdbm fatal: lseek error [10:54] huh? [11:18] does anyone know the format for adding fm radio station in rhythmbox? [11:18] I mean i need to manually edit rhythmdb.xml I want to know format for this [11:25] does current hardy iso ships with kde3 or 4? [11:25] antibody_: both [11:25] hmm...I only have one option in kdm login [11:26] slytherin: kde3 atm [11:26] antibody_: Then perhaps only parts of KDE 4 are shipped ex. dolphin [11:26] oh [11:26] ...hmmm [11:27] will delete virtual machine then [11:28] it doesn't pass from kdm anyways [11:28] ..not even with startx [11:28] which is weird..doesn't kdm use X already? [11:31] hardy will still have kde3? [11:31] by default? [11:31] 'cause in gutsy I can't do much [11:31] I can't even launch knetworkmanager [11:33] !enter | antibody_ [11:33] antibody_: Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation! [11:33] antibody_: kde3 will be default I guess in hardy [11:34] * Hobbsee wishes that people actually read the meeting log, or even the summary [11:34] ok ty [11:34] jussi01, .|. [11:34] http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/minutes/ [12:26] firefox with linux32: error while loading shared libraries: libpixman-1.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory [13:21] hello [13:22] is there a way to add a command so when i right click a file i can edit that file using gedit, a smart way of making a variable for the name of the file? [13:23] vwhydrowv: you mean something different then open with? [13:23] yes [13:23] like a customized edit [13:24] so when u right click and edit, it automatically pulls up gedit [13:24] is that possible [13:24] ? [13:25] vwhydrowv: well you can set the mime-type on it.... [13:26] ok, so would that give me the above functionality? [13:26] i dont think it would [13:26] no the way i was wanting atleast [13:28] no big deal, just was asking if it is possible [13:29] hmmm not sure really [13:29] vwhydrowv: I know it is possible to change the actual command and use that...but I have never done my own "open with" standard for a file or so [13:43] ok man [13:43] ill research it some more, just thinking about ways i can customize this [14:02] Is anybody else running firefox-3.0 here? I have a problem: when I type something in the address bar and have the pop-down menu, my CPU usage goes to 100%, until I choose something from the menu. Can anyone reproduce this problem? [14:05] sorry, not using it [14:06] seems like a leak though, did u run a debugger? [14:06] No. Don't really know how to use a debugger for firefox. [14:07] But my memory usage doesn't change. [14:07] im thinking it would be a cpu leak [14:07] u might be able to use a system debugger and see what file is causing the leak [14:07] atleast that is where i would start at [14:09] vwhydrowv: Can you give a pointer? I haven't heard much about CPU leak. [14:11] i wish i could, im coming from a windows background man, probably would be better to ask in ubuntu [14:11] but its definitely a leak [14:11] vwhydrowv: Okay, thanks. [14:11] u need a program that can monitor which files are being accessed and how much cpu usage each is taking [14:12] that way it will make it easier to track down though === bigon` is now known as bigon === thekorn__ is now known as thekorn [16:32] i fixed the libpix problem on my pc, now its /opt/FF3/firefox-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libselinux.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory [16:34] It's been a while since I was last in here. [16:34] OOooooh, packaged nvidia is now 169.07! Sweet! [16:35] /opt/FF3/firefox-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libsepol.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory [16:37] finally, FF3 back in business on 64 bit [16:39] Haven't been following development, I heard there were troubles with the intel video driver earlier? I've got a 945 and I'm just wondering if anyone could tell me how things are. [16:40] I tried compiz on a Core 2 Duo with a recent Intel IGP (915 or 945, I think), and it was horribly sluggish. === MrFeetio is now known as MrFeetio{away} [16:41] I tried it on a Pentium M (and a slower one, too), with an 8-something, and it was actually more responsive. [16:41] s/too/at that/ === MrFeetio{away} is now known as MrFeetio === MrFeetio is now known as MrFeetio{away} [16:50] PriceChild: If you use EXA scrolling is horribly slow [16:51] PriceChild: If you use XAA you have to disable compiz to use Xv [16:51] Amaranth, "of course" [16:51] oh wait, you don't [16:51] Which is default: EXA or XAA? [16:51] On that Core 2 Duo PC, scrolling WAS horribly slow. [16:51] If we still have the patch in to make overlay Xv the default instead of textured Xv 945 still works with XAA [16:51] DanaG: EXA, of course [16:51] Because we are going to use it [16:51] Aaaaah. [16:52] We have no choice, we have to use it [16:52] Is there any fix for that slowness? [16:52] nope [16:52] Damn. [16:52] Intel doesn't care about XAA anymore though [16:52] so nothing gets done there [16:53] that's why the 965 doesn't get compiz in gutsy [16:54] It seems like there's nowhere to go to get nice decently-accelerated video in Linux. [16:54] nvidia is currently best off [16:54] I'm still in doubt about what I'd want to get for my next notebook. Intel? Not if there's not also a discrete GPU I can choose to use for Windows. [16:54] fglrx is gaining rapidly [16:55] NVIDIA? It has that awful screen blinking. ATI? Crappy right now, but hopefully better (even if not in the open-source drivers) by summer. [16:55] for intel and ati (and nouveau even) the infrastructure is changing completely [16:55] so they suck right now but in 6 months or so should be super fast and featureful [16:56] of course 6 months ago it was 6 months away too === MrFeetio{away} is now known as MrFeetio [17:00] Oh yeah, I see all these features in gnome-power-manager: keyboard backlight control, brightness sensor control, and such. [17:00] What notebooks support all those> === MrFeetio is now known as MrFeetio{away} [17:02] is Hardy going to have any big new features? Or is it going to be strictly a bug fix release? [17:08] underwatercow: Ubuntu or Kubuntu? Kubuntu's getting KDE4 [17:08] Regular Ubuntu will be an LTS... [17:11] underwatercow: New features, yes. Whether big or not depends on individual interpretations, I think. [17:17] Anybody noticed webcam/V4L device breakage with Hardy? [17:17] It used to work a while ago. [17:18] I know Hardy is a development version and to expect breakage, but just wondering if someone else is experiencing it or if it's my setup :) [17:21] minghua, Artimus: I was referring to Ubuntu, and I just meant anything significant. I read something about changing the default gnome theme too? [17:22] Yes, I believe I heard something about that. I don't know anything about it, however... I'm a Kubuntu user. === nanonyme is now known as javaJake === javaJake is now known as nanonyme [17:24] underwatercow: Yes, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/HardyTheme. I don't know much about it though. [17:25] underwatercow: For Ubuntu, it's going to be GNOME 2.22, and whatever new feature coming with it. [17:30] What kernel version is likely to be used in Hardy? [17:31] bullgard4: 2.6.24, I believe it's certain. [17:32] minghua: Thank you very much. [17:33] bullgard4: You are welcome. [17:43] Hi! [17:45] are there a livecd for hardy alpha somewhere so I can test if there are any bugs that I hate in it, before it is too late to fix them? === LimCore is now known as LimCo === LimCo is now known as LimCore [17:51] http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/alpha2 [17:52] I wonder why ubotu doesn't say that for 'image' or 'alpha' or 'alpha2'. [17:52] It's probably filed under some other factoid. === twilight_ is now known as twilight === MrFeetio{away} is now known as MrFeetio === neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde [19:09] Anyone else seeing x11-common fail on post-inst scripts? [19:20] hey, what version of firefox is hardy going to pack? [19:23] dmb: 2.x and 3.x [19:23] caravena: i'm guessing 2.x is going to be the default? [19:24] dmb: Now 2.x is default [19:24] yes, but in the future [19:24] No sé. [19:27] hablo espanol? [19:39] i would think 3.x is out of beta by april, no? [19:39] so then that would probably be default [20:10] joakim-: i'd hope so, firefox 3.x is 100x better and more stable then 2.x [20:10] :/ [20:13] Anybody else using Hardy on a laptop? [20:13] yea me [20:13] If so, take a look at gnome-power-manager's battery list. Mine now shows two batteries, one of which never changes value. [20:13] And the Power Meter is dividing my wattage in half. [20:14] w00t [20:14] i got 2 batteries [20:15] and i also only use half of the power i use [20:15] and very linear [20:23] The duplicated battery is a bug. [20:23] Gaack, that Tracker icon is sooooooo annoying! [20:25] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/tracker-list/2007-October/msg00078.html [20:25] does anybody else have problems with the tray icons not loading after latest uploads? [21:15] "Tracker is now merging indexes which can degrade system performance for serveral minutes" [21:15] typo. [21:19] Oh, and it's popped up that same notification about 3 times. [21:19] i downloaded and ran Hardy Alpha 2 as a virtual machine [21:19] it promised KDE 4 RC 2 [21:19] sanest way to install a hardy domU anyone ? [21:20] but i only saw KDE 3.5.8 [21:20]