mhb | hmm, I guess #kde hates me because of me being a Kubuntu user :o) | 00:36 |
---|---|---|
mhb | not only nobody really answered my questions, they also managed to complain about kubuntu in the 15-minute interval I was there. | 00:36 |
LaserJock | hmm, I'm sure that could happen in just about any channel | 00:38 |
mhb | oh, do they complain about Kubuntu in all channels now? | 00:39 |
mhb | it's good to be home then. | 00:39 |
Riddell | mhb: what do they complain about? | 00:41 |
Riddell | stdin: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2008-January/thread.html | 00:42 |
Riddell | search for kdeadmin-kde4 down to koffice2 | 00:42 |
LaserJock | mhb: well, if it's a popular distro complaints within 15min doesn't seem out of the ordinary ;-) | 00:43 |
stdin | Riddell: yeah, I got now. but I wanted to ask if cdbs (>= 0.4.50) was really needed for kdemultimedia-kde4? | 00:43 |
mhb | the same old Sho_ song (Kubuntu's KDE diverges from upstream, et cetera) | 00:43 |
LaserJock | and not answering questions is a common IRC thing | 00:43 |
Riddell | stdin: i don't know but it shouldn't be different from any other kde4 package | 00:44 |
mhb | LaserJock: sure, but the complaining bit convinced me to keep away from that channel :o) | 00:44 |
stdin | Riddell: also kdeartwork-kde4 FTBFS on i386 (and lpia) http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11169794/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.kdeartwork-kde4_4%3A3.98.0%7Esvn755919-1ubuntu1%7Egutsy1%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz | 00:57 |
Riddell | stdin: oh, xscreensaver foo | 00:59 |
Riddell | stdin: you can edit the .install files until you get them right if you want | 00:59 |
Riddell | or not bother, it's not the most important module | 00:59 |
stdin | I'll see how I feel after getting some coffee on and rummaging for food :p | 01:00 |
Riddell | fooey, koffice2 broke | 01:02 |
* Hobbsee waves | 01:03 | |
stdin | Riddell: needs build-dep on libphonon-dev ? | 01:05 |
stdin | hello Hobbsee \o | 01:05 |
* Hobbsee despams various mailing lsits, and hugs listadmin | 01:06 | |
Hobbsee | oh nice, someone's done u-d recently | 01:06 |
Mez | Riddell - http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/109 | 01:20 |
mhb | ah, the kids | 01:24 |
Riddell | i like messing with data | 01:25 |
nixternal | hahahhaah | 01:25 |
Mez | Riddell, got a link for the kubuntu design team? | 01:26 |
Riddell | the what? | 01:27 |
Mez | kubuntu artwork * | 01:27 |
mhb | there's no such thing | 01:27 |
Jucato | moin guys and Hobbsee! :) | 01:28 |
mhb | Mez: we're very short on art people, in fact we have just kwwii who finds some time for Kubuntu artwork once in a while | 01:29 |
Mez | ah... *slaps his designer friend( | 01:30 |
Jucato | I have a kde3-kde4 questions (actually two): 1. are we using the same $KDEHOME for both kde3 and kde4? 2. How are we setting up the kde4 session so that it uses the qt4 binaries and libraries instead of qt3 (we use /etc/alternatives to choose between qt3 and qt4 right?)? | 01:30 |
mhb | Mez: don't slap him, invite him to join the fun :o) | 01:30 |
Mez | he enjoys it | 01:30 |
Riddell | Jucato: 1) no 2) the normal linker way | 01:31 |
Jucato | Riddell: oh. how do we separate the $KDEHOME's? is there a $KDE4HOME env var? | 01:31 |
Jucato | thanks btw :) | 01:32 |
Riddell | Jucato: we don't use the environment variable, it's patched in kdelibs | 01:32 |
Jucato | aaah ok. thanks :) | 01:32 |
Mez | Riddell - I've updated the facebook stuff a lil (added kubuntu - but left "I am your father" | 01:32 |
mhb | Riddell: any chance we could propagate our patches back to upstream so I'll feel less hated in #kde in the future? :o) | 01:36 |
mhb | KDE4 patches, that is... | 01:36 |
Riddell | mhb: we don't have any KDE 4 patches, other than the ones from debian | 01:37 |
Hobbsee | heya Jucato! | 01:37 |
mhb | Riddell: so it's patched in upstream? | 01:37 |
mhb | the $KDEHOME env var | 01:37 |
mhb | or debian? | 01:37 |
Riddell | mhb: that is patched upstream in debian, who got it from suse. for obvious reasons it's not going to be patched in kde | 01:38 |
mhb | I should invite captain obvious for tea because he's not here right now | 01:39 |
mhb | Riddell: rephrasing the sentence above, what's the obvious reason for not accepting a patch everyone actually uses? | 01:40 |
Riddell | mhb: in this case KDE assumes you are only using one version of KDE, we are allowing to use two | 01:41 |
mhb | so KDE doesn't like using two versions at once? | 01:42 |
Riddell | not without changing KDEHOME | 01:42 |
mhb | KDE as in "the KDE developers" | 01:42 |
mhb | I still fail to grasp the reason why the would never include it | 01:43 |
mhb | sorry | 01:43 |
Riddell | will tell you it's a distro issue | 01:43 |
Riddell | because they are assuming KDE 4 users are upgrading from KDE 3 once and for all. we assume currently that KDE 4 users are slightly experimental and may want to change back | 01:44 |
mhb | thank you for the explanation. | 01:45 |
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Hobbsee | kdeartwork (ppa) fell over | 02:00 |
stdin | yeah I know, I'm trying to (forcibly) fix it now | 02:03 |
yuriy | *sigh* kde 4 just crashed randomly | 02:10 |
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stdin | so, who feels like explaining why kdeartwork-kde4 built fine on amd64, then after I removed the files from the .install that stopped i386 from building, amd64 now fails. not finding files it seems to have found before? :/ | 04:50 |
nixternal | don't you just love packaging? :) | 04:52 |
stdin | it's beginning to annoy me somewhat, I'll just keep hacking away at the .install until there's nothing there if I have to! :p | 04:56 |
stdin | up goes ~ppa4 | 04:59 |
nixternal | oh wow, I just removed my kde-devel user and home directory....it freed up 40% of my darn drive | 05:02 |
LaserJock | heh | 05:02 |
LaserJock | KDE is *huge* | 05:02 |
nixternal | kde 4 when debugfull is set for pretty much all of extragear, all of KDE, a lot of playground, and all of office | 05:03 |
stdin | up goes ~ppa5... | 05:28 |
stdin | and now for ~ppa6 | 06:27 |
nixternal | lol | 06:34 |
nixternal | I am about 50% complete with extragear | 06:34 |
nixternal | kcoloredit was kind of pointless for -kde4 package since nothing has changed in it since 2000 | 06:34 |
nixternal | heh | 06:34 |
stdin | bah, I give up on kdeartwork-kde4, it's evil and I don't like it any more | 09:31 |
hunger | Is there a xrndr applet shipped with kubuntu? | 10:37 |
stdin | not that I can see | 10:39 |
stdin | but I don't use xrandr so it could be hidden somewhere I don't look | 10:40 |
hunger | stdin: I could only find some gtk-things as well:-( | 10:40 |
hunger | stdin: ati got randr support a couple of days ago in hardy. I want to try that out;-) | 10:41 |
stdin | man xrandr ;) | 10:42 |
hunger | stdin: That is so 1980th;-) | 10:42 |
stdin | ok, use man:/xrandr if it makes you feel better :p | 10:42 |
hunger | That is so 1990th;-) | 10:43 |
Lure | Riddell, stdin: improvement of kdebase-workspace package, but kdm-kde4 is still not working properly (not sure if our of upstream problem): http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lure/kdebase-workspace.diff | 10:50 |
Lure | and we still need to decide what to do with manpages: currently they are installed on same location as kde3, therefore it would cause a conflict | 10:51 |
fdoving | hunger: doesn't krandrtray work ? | 11:08 |
hunger | fdoving: Where can I get that? | 11:11 |
fdoving | you probably have it. | 11:12 |
fdoving | kcontrol: /usr/bin/krandrtray | 11:12 |
fdoving | alt+f2, 'krandrtray' | 11:12 |
fdoving | brb. | 11:12 |
hunger | fdoving: Ah, great! I was looking all over aptitude for something;-) | 11:12 |
fdoving | not sure this old krandrtray is working with the new xrandr 1.2. but you'll find out. | 11:13 |
fdoving | bbl. | 11:14 |
Riddell | stdin: koffice2 seems to have compiled now | 11:57 |
stdin | Riddell: yeah, 1:1.9.96.0~svn757194-1ubuntu1~gutsy1~ppa1 is basically 1:1.9.96.0~svn757194-1ubuntu2, I added the build-dep on the 1st upload :) | 11:59 |
Riddell | stdin: clever clever | 12:02 |
stdin | and I've given up on kdeartwork-kde4, it's insane! it builds fine locally in a gutsy pbuilder but not on the PPA buildd I think I got up to ~ppa7 | 12:03 |
stdin | even patched debchange to allow -i with ~ppa revisions :p | 12:03 |
Riddell | crazy | 12:05 |
stdin | well there is a amd64 and an i386 package up, may not be the same version but it should be ok | 12:06 |
Lure | any kde4 desktop user that can test one digikam/kde3 issue? | 12:08 |
fdoving | sure. | 12:08 |
fdoving | i have compiled my own kde4, but that won't matter, i guess? | 12:09 |
fdoving | just finished burning an album to cd with the new k3b. :) | 12:09 |
Lure | fdoving: can you start digikam/kde3 in kde4 session and check if proper albums show photos? | 12:09 |
fdoving | i use a 'start3app' bash function to set the proper environment variables. | 12:09 |
Lure | fdoving: for me it only shows date and search albums | 12:09 |
fdoving | not sure how it behaves without that. | 12:09 |
Lure | fdoving: same here | 12:09 |
Lure | I get no error on console, but also no photos in folder view | 12:10 |
Lure | :-( | 12:10 |
Lure | fdoving: so k3b/kde4 works? | 12:10 |
* Lure adds it to build list... | 12:10 | |
fdoving | well, it crashes when i try to write cd images. | 12:11 |
fdoving | it's not ready to be used, i guess. | 12:12 |
fdoving | menus are incomplete etc. | 12:12 |
Lure | fdoving: ok, but it might be before hardy release... | 12:12 |
Lure | Riddell: is there any plan to have some beta versions of kde4 available for users? | 12:12 |
fdoving | Lure: yep. might. | 12:12 |
Lure | Riddell: maybe at least in kde4-beta ppa or similar | 12:13 |
Riddell | Lure: huh? we've been doing that for ages | 12:14 |
Lure | Riddell: I mean with some commitment/support? | 12:14 |
Riddell | Lure: what sort of commitment/support? the packages are there, they work | 12:15 |
Lure | Riddell: you are probably right, standard kubuntu.org release/announcement should do it | 12:15 |
Lure | Riddell: it will be just more apps now to cover (koffice2, extragear...) | 12:16 |
mzungu | menu ->xchat->network list | 12:16 |
mzungu | oops! | 12:17 |
Lure | mzungu: it is menu -> konversation -> network list over here ;-) | 12:17 |
Riddell | mzungu! you havn't been killed in political riots | 12:17 |
mzungu | ;) | 12:17 |
mzungu | nope - still alive! | 12:17 |
mzungu | smoke on the near horizon ;) | 12:18 |
mzungu | seriously - not as bad as the press reports! | 12:18 |
Riddell | phew | 12:18 |
mzungu | Lure: tried all other clients, and just keep coming back to xchat | 12:19 |
mzungu | thanks for asking, guys | 12:19 |
mzungu | we were a bit worried for a couple of days - but things are returning to normal | 12:20 |
fdoving | they managed to find some not-so-nice pictures to send on tv last night. good thing if it's normalizing. | 12:21 |
mzungu | tv/media BAD PPL! | 12:27 |
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blizzzek | does anyone know if flabby windows are planned to be a feature of kde4 desktop/window effects? | 14:16 |
Lure | can some core-dev approve bug 180778 | 15:19 |
ubotu | Launchpad bug 180778 in digikam "[hardy] Please sync digikam 0.9.3 from debian" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180778 | 15:19 |
Lure | then some archive-admin can do the sync (Riddell and Hobbsee comes to mind ;-)) | 15:19 |
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Riddell | Lure: done | 15:37 |
Lure | Riddell: thanks | 15:38 |
Lure | Riddell: kdebase-workspace: did you just upload my debdiff or did you also try it (kdm does not work on my clean system) | 15:38 |
Lure | Riddell: and btw, when is the plan to switch to released tarballs? Are we waiting for debian? | 15:39 |
Jucato | what's the repo again for our most up-to-date kde4 packages? (after rc2?) if we have any :) | 16:45 |
stdin | Jucato: same as rc2 repos, kubuntu-members-kde4 | 16:47 |
Jucato | stdin: thankies :) | 16:47 |
Riddell | stdin: does cfitsio3 need to be backported? | 17:35 |
Riddell | for gutsy? | 17:35 |
Riddell | gutsy has the same upstream version as hardy | 17:36 |
stdin | I had to backport libcfitsio libnova and soprano | 17:36 |
Riddell | stdin: any changes needed? | 17:36 |
stdin | nope | 17:37 |
Riddell | stdin: I'll put them into gutsy-backports then | 17:37 |
Riddell | stdin: want me to sync in your name for the extra karma? | 17:38 |
stdin | Riddell: sure, I love karma :) | 17:38 |
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=== jpatrick changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Welcome to the Kubuntu developers channel | Next meeting: 12nd January 11:00 | Happy New Year | ||
Riddell | thanks jpatrick | 18:46 |
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nixternal | back to building extragear love | 18:54 |
nixternal | Riddell: can you explain why these packages are not building to debian/tmp but instead to debian/<package_name>? | 19:00 |
nixternal | I am using the same cdbs as all other kde4 packages | 19:00 |
Riddell | nixternal: that's what always happens with packages that build only one binary package | 19:20 |
nixternal | ahhh, ok | 19:27 |
Riddell | mhb: poke poke "A: Yes, you will be able to download it from kubuntu.org." is wrong, it'll be on cdimage.ubuntu.com same as always | 19:32 |
Riddell | probably on releases.ubuntu.com too | 19:33 |
jpatrick | Riddell: no problem | 19:47 |
mhb | Riddell: well, for me and the rest of the ordinary boys, we go to kubuntu.org to click ourselves through the maze to get the image | 19:55 |
mhb | Riddell: I was not referring to the server exactly, but rather to the place where the link will be located, and that is undoubtedly kubuntu.org | 19:55 |
Riddell | mhb: fair enough, just the sysadmins are a bit touchy after I killed the pipes by putting the last KDE 4 CD on kubuntu.org :) | 19:56 |
mhb | I'll clarify it as a comment | 19:56 |
jpatrick | Riddell: someone has yet to approve rouzic and smarter in ~kubuntu-members | 19:56 |
rouzic | pon... oh, wait! | 19:57 |
smarter | Yes, that would be nice ;) | 19:58 |
ScottK | mhb: The way you phrased it in your blog entry made it sound like KDE3 is seriously deprecated for Hardy | 20:02 |
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jpatrick | last meetings minutes availible at http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/minutes/ | 20:17 |
mhb | ScottK: hmm, I don't read it that way | 20:24 |
mhb | ScottK: AFAIK I wrote about the KDE3 CD being available. | 20:24 |
Riddell | thanks jpatrick, can you link from the Kubuntu/Meetings page? | 20:24 |
jpatrick | Riddell: I shall do that (and write up the rest of meetings from now), after my custard | 20:25 |
ScottK | mhb: You wrote KDE4 via shipit and KDE3 via kubuntu.org (which is where we get all the unsupported updates and stuff). | 20:26 |
ScottK | Sounds to me like KDE4 is all Kubuntu is worried about for Hardy. | 20:26 |
mhb | ScottK: sorry to disagree, but that was simply not there. | 20:27 |
mhb | it is an incorrect deduction ... I guess you could deduce a lot of things from it, but many would be not true | 20:28 |
mhb | kubuntu.org is our main site, after all :o) | 20:28 |
ScottK | But kubuntu.org is not where releases get downloaded from. | 20:29 |
mhb | ScottK: that's a valid point, it's addressed in the comments | 20:29 |
ScottK | The comments don't show in my RSS reader. | 20:30 |
jjesse_ | nixternal: whats the weather like in chi-town | 20:30 |
jjesse_ | stupid airport delays | 20:30 |
mhb | ScottK: right, well ... if I updated the blog post it would get to the top of the planet.ubuntu.com again, and that's not a good practice. I would consider that as an option if the error was serious... but the text is short and simple by design | 20:32 |
ScottK | OK. | 20:32 |
mhb | there's nothing in there that suggests KDE3 being second class IMHO. In fact, there's nothing about it. | 20:32 |
nixternal | jjesse_: about 60 degrees | 20:32 |
ScottK | If only KDE4 is being shipped via shipit, then it's clear what the primary is. | 20:33 |
jjesse_ | i thought both kde3 and kde4 were being shipped via shipit | 20:33 |
ScottK | Not according to mhb's blog post | 20:34 |
jjesse_ | hrmmm | 20:34 |
ScottK | As nearly as I can tell, the plan now is to focus on making Kubuntu 8.04 great for 'technology enthusiasts' with those of us who use it for actual work getting not a lot out of it. | 20:34 |
jpatrick | ScottK: it was decided at the meeting that we'd "big up the KDE 4 CD as being the interesting and exciting one, we put it on release.u.c, have it on shipit and generally make it the focus of our messaging" | 20:35 |
mhb | jjesse_: also according to the meeting minutes jpatrick did a few minutes ago | 20:35 |
jjesse_ | dang it i always miss the metgs | 20:35 |
ScottK | jpatrick: This confirms what I said. | 20:36 |
mhb | ScottK: well, not quite. What is true that you won't get much more compared to Gutsy. | 20:36 |
jjesse_ | nixternal: is it foggy or what there? just wondering why everything is delayed | 20:36 |
mhb | ScottK: which is not entirely our fault (KDE3 development has stopped) | 20:36 |
mhb | ScottK: the KDE4 CD is targeted at enthusiasts and power users, that's true | 20:37 |
mhb | ScottK: however, if all the apps fit on the CD, I don't see a reason why your productivity could be harmed | 20:38 |
mhb | ScottK: or is that really dependent on the position of the panel? | 20:38 |
mhb | most of the KDE4 apps that are not done will be replaced by the KDE3 ones | 20:38 |
mhb | kontact, amarok, kaffeine, digikam, k3b too I guess ... ale KDE3 | 20:39 |
mhb | all | 20:39 |
ScottK | So I get my shippit CD and upgrade to a less stable KDE4 environment to run the same Kontact I've always run? | 20:40 |
mhb | no, you upgrade via internet and get the same KDE3 you've always run | 20:40 |
mhb | or you install KDE4 CD and get KDE3's Kontact, yes. | 20:41 |
mhb | I find it sensible that we should ship (hybrid) KDE4 CDs ... after all, Gutsy was not really a big improvement over Feisty feature-wise and most of us is having one of those at home ... why ship another same ol' KDE3 to the users? | 20:42 |
mhb | we just need to communicate well that KDE4 CD is not LTS. | 20:43 |
mhb | it's not even normal release | 20:43 |
ScottK | That's the problem. There is no 'normal release' for Kubuntu Hardy. | 20:44 |
Riddell | jpatrick: added smarter and rouzic, thanks for the reminder | 20:45 |
Tm_T | hi kids | 20:45 |
Riddell | ScottK: the KDE 3 release is the normal one, the KDE 4 release is the interesting one | 20:45 |
smarter | Riddell: thanks | 20:45 |
jjesse_ | which one will be abailable on shipit? | 20:46 |
jpatrick | jjesse_: KDE4 | 20:46 |
jjesse_ | intereseting | 20:46 |
ScottK | Riddell: It'd be nice to be able to get official CDs from shipit for KDE3. I can't really hand out KDE4 CDs to people I'm trying to convert | 20:46 |
jpatrick | this is why I write the minutes... | 20:46 |
jjesse_ | agreed ScottK | 20:46 |
Riddell | ScottK: best order some gutsy CDs then | 20:47 |
* ScottK goes to order more. | 20:47 | |
mhb | or hand out Ubuntu, it will be LTS and it's got all the marketing/developer power behind it | 20:48 |
Tm_T | noone stops installing KDE into that :) | 20:48 |
Nightrose | (or burn some cds yourself...) | 20:49 |
rouzic | thanks Riddell :-p | 20:49 |
Riddell | mhb: ug | 20:49 |
mhb | Riddell: ug? what does that mean? I'm not happy about it, but it's true. | 20:49 |
ScottK | Nightrose: Handing out self-burned CDs doesn't look professional | 20:50 |
mhb | it's got all the developers power and with the LTS removing action, it's got all marketing for itself, too | 20:50 |
Riddell | ScottK: put them in the shipit covers | 20:50 |
Nightrose | yea | 20:51 |
ScottK | Well I just asked for more. | 20:51 |
Riddell | mhb: so it doesn't need our help, we should be promoting Kubuntu | 20:51 |
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jpatrick | Riddell: apt-cache show kturtle-kde4 - last line says see KDE3 packages for more info | 21:21 |
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Vorian | is there something I can help with? :) | 21:29 |
jjesse_ | i love ariports | 21:33 |
nosrednaekim | big ones? or munincipal ones | 21:35 |
jjesse_ | alll airports | 21:37 |
jjesse_ | was scheduled to leave at 3:00 | 21:37 |
jjesse_ | still havent left | 21:37 |
nosrednaekim | oh.... sarcasm... ;) | 21:37 |
jjesse_ | sarcasM? | 21:37 |
nosrednaekim | well, obviously if you are behind time... you don't love airports. | 21:39 |
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jjesse_ | grin, just frustrated | 21:44 |
jjesse_ | chicago o'hare is always delayed | 21:44 |
jpatrick | where's dolphin-kde4 ? | 21:44 |
crimsun | (in universe?) | 21:45 |
jpatrick | in the new KDE 4.0 packages I mean | 21:46 |
jpatrick | ah, found it | 21:48 |
nosrednaekim | 4.0 packages are already out? | 21:49 |
Riddell | jpatrick: fair point but I don't think it's worth fixing this week | 21:49 |
Riddell | Vorian: do you know how to make packages? | 21:49 |
jpatrick | nosrednaekim: in PPA and hardy | 21:49 |
Vorian | Riddell: yep, not so well from scratch however | 21:50 |
nosrednaekim | jpatrick: wow.... bet kubuntu is the first distro to have packages :) | 21:50 |
Lure_ | is it just me, or smb:// does not work properly in kde4? when I copy stuff to XP share it get stalled after several KBs | 21:51 |
Riddell | Vorian: ask nixternal for an extragear app to package if you want | 21:51 |
Vorian | Riddell: sounds great :) | 21:51 |
jjesse_ | front page of kubuntu meetings shows the date as january 07 | 21:51 |
jpatrick | Riddell: shame most are still in new.. | 21:51 |
Vorian | Riddell: and thanks :) | 21:51 |
Riddell | jpatrick: most what? | 21:52 |
Vorian | bbl | 21:52 |
jpatrick | Riddell: of the kde4 extragears apps we've uploaded | 21:52 |
Riddell | jpatrick: well we can't let 4.0 packages through until closer to the release day | 21:52 |
jpatrick | ok | 21:53 |
* nosrednaekim thinks thats rather unfair.... ;) | 21:53 | |
Riddell | nosrednaekim: the alternative is we dont get the tars a week early | 21:54 |
nosrednaekim | yeah... I know.... but i'm just a selfish user... | 21:54 |
toma_ | kde4 extragear tarballs were all ok ? | 22:02 |
Riddell | Vorian: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/ktorrent-4.0.0.tar.bz2 if you want to start on one | 22:04 |
Riddell | Vorian: get the old packages from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/hardy/new/ | 22:04 |
jpatrick | update rules too | 22:04 |
Riddell | toma_: ask nixternal for that | 22:06 |
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