/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/01/06/#kubuntu-devel.txt

mhbhmm, I guess #kde hates me because of me being a Kubuntu user :o)00:36
mhbnot only nobody really answered my questions, they also managed to complain about kubuntu in the 15-minute interval I was there.00:36
LaserJockhmm, I'm sure that could happen in just about any channel00:38
mhboh, do they complain about Kubuntu in all channels now?00:39
mhbit's good to be home then.00:39
Riddellmhb: what do they complain about?00:41
Riddellstdin: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2008-January/thread.html00:42
Riddellsearch for kdeadmin-kde4 down to koffice200:42
LaserJockmhb: well, if it's a popular distro complaints within 15min doesn't seem out of the ordinary ;-)00:43
stdinRiddell: yeah, I got now. but I wanted to ask if cdbs (>= 0.4.50) was really needed for kdemultimedia-kde4?00:43
mhbthe same old Sho_ song (Kubuntu's KDE diverges from upstream, et cetera)00:43
LaserJockand not answering questions is a common IRC thing00:43
Riddellstdin: i don't know but it shouldn't be different from any other kde4 package00:44
mhbLaserJock: sure, but the complaining bit convinced me to keep away from that channel :o)00:44
stdinRiddell: also kdeartwork-kde4 FTBFS on i386 (and lpia) http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11169794/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.kdeartwork-kde4_4%3A3.98.0%7Esvn755919-1ubuntu1%7Egutsy1%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz00:57
Riddellstdin: oh, xscreensaver foo00:59
Riddellstdin: you can edit the .install files until you get them right if you want00:59
Riddellor not bother, it's not the most important module00:59
stdinI'll see how I feel after getting some coffee on and rummaging for food :p01:00
Riddellfooey, koffice2 broke01:02
* Hobbsee waves01:03
stdinRiddell: needs build-dep on libphonon-dev ?01:05
stdinhello Hobbsee \o01:05
* Hobbsee despams various mailing lsits, and hugs listadmin01:06
Hobbseeoh nice, someone's done u-d recently01:06
MezRiddell - http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/10901:20
mhbah, the kids01:24
Riddelli like messing with data01:25
nixternalhahahhaah01:25
MezRiddell, got a link for the kubuntu design team?01:26
Riddellthe what?01:27
Mezkubuntu artwork *01:27
mhbthere's no such thing01:27
Jucatomoin guys and Hobbsee! :)01:28
mhbMez: we're very short on art people, in fact we have just kwwii who finds some time for Kubuntu artwork once in a while01:29
Mezah... *slaps his designer friend(01:30
JucatoI have a kde3-kde4 questions (actually two): 1. are we using the same $KDEHOME for both kde3 and kde4? 2. How are we setting up the kde4 session so that it uses the qt4 binaries and libraries instead of qt3 (we use /etc/alternatives to choose between qt3 and qt4 right?)?01:30
mhbMez: don't slap him, invite him to join the fun :o)01:30
Mezhe enjoys it01:30
RiddellJucato: 1) no 2) the normal linker way01:31
JucatoRiddell: oh. how do we separate the $KDEHOME's? is there a $KDE4HOME env var?01:31
Jucatothanks btw :)01:32
RiddellJucato: we don't use the environment variable, it's patched in kdelibs01:32
Jucatoaaah ok. thanks :)01:32
MezRiddell - I've updated the facebook stuff a lil (added kubuntu - but left "I am your father"01:32
mhbRiddell: any chance we could propagate our patches back to upstream so I'll feel less hated in #kde in the future? :o)01:36
mhbKDE4 patches, that is...01:36
Riddellmhb: we don't have any KDE 4 patches, other than the ones from debian01:37
Hobbseeheya Jucato!01:37
mhbRiddell: so it's patched in upstream?01:37
mhbthe $KDEHOME env var01:37
mhbor debian?01:37
Riddellmhb: that is patched upstream in debian, who got it from suse.  for obvious reasons it's not going to be patched in kde01:38
mhbI should invite captain obvious for tea because he's not here right now01:39
mhbRiddell: rephrasing the sentence above, what's the obvious reason for not accepting a patch everyone actually uses?01:40
Riddellmhb: in this case KDE assumes you are only using one version of KDE, we are allowing to use two01:41
mhbso KDE doesn't like using two versions at once?01:42
Riddellnot without changing KDEHOME01:42
mhbKDE as in "the KDE developers"01:42
mhbI still fail to grasp the reason why the would never include it01:43
mhbsorry01:43
Riddellwill tell you it's a distro issue01:43
Riddellbecause they are assuming KDE 4 users are upgrading from KDE 3 once and for all.  we assume currently that KDE 4 users are slightly experimental and may want to change back01:44
mhbthank you for the explanation.01:45
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Hobbseekdeartwork (ppa) fell over02:00
stdinyeah I know, I'm trying to (forcibly) fix it now02:03
yuriy*sigh* kde 4 just crashed randomly02:10
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stdinso, who feels like explaining why kdeartwork-kde4 built fine on amd64, then after I removed the files from the .install that stopped i386 from building, amd64 now fails. not finding files it seems to have found before? :/04:50
nixternaldon't you just love packaging? :)04:52
stdinit's beginning to annoy me somewhat, I'll just keep hacking away at the .install until there's nothing there if I have to! :p04:56
stdinup goes ~ppa404:59
nixternaloh wow, I just removed my kde-devel user and home directory....it freed up 40% of my darn drive05:02
LaserJockheh05:02
LaserJockKDE is *huge*05:02
nixternalkde 4 when debugfull is set for pretty much all of extragear, all of KDE, a lot of playground, and all of office05:03
stdinup goes ~ppa5...05:28
stdinand now for ~ppa606:27
nixternallol06:34
nixternalI am about 50% complete with extragear06:34
nixternalkcoloredit was kind of pointless for -kde4 package since nothing has changed in it since 200006:34
nixternalheh06:34
stdinbah, I give up on kdeartwork-kde4, it's evil and I don't like it any more09:31
hungerIs there a xrndr applet shipped with kubuntu?10:37
stdinnot that I can see10:39
stdinbut I don't use xrandr so it could be hidden somewhere I don't look10:40
hungerstdin: I could only find some gtk-things as well:-(10:40
hungerstdin: ati got randr support a couple of days ago in hardy. I want to try that out;-)10:41
stdinman xrandr ;)10:42
hungerstdin: That is so 1980th;-)10:42
stdinok, use man:/xrandr if it makes you feel better :p10:42
hungerThat is so 1990th;-)10:43
LureRiddell, stdin: improvement of kdebase-workspace package, but kdm-kde4 is still not working properly (not sure if our of upstream problem): http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lure/kdebase-workspace.diff10:50
Lureand we still need to decide what to do with manpages: currently they are installed on same location as kde3, therefore it would cause a conflict10:51
fdovinghunger: doesn't krandrtray work ?11:08
hungerfdoving: Where can I get that?11:11
fdovingyou probably have it.11:12
fdovingkcontrol: /usr/bin/krandrtray11:12
fdovingalt+f2, 'krandrtray'11:12
fdovingbrb.11:12
hungerfdoving: Ah, great! I was looking all over aptitude for something;-)11:12
fdovingnot sure this old krandrtray is working with the new xrandr 1.2. but you'll find out.11:13
fdovingbbl.11:14
Riddellstdin: koffice2 seems to have compiled now11:57
stdinRiddell: yeah, 1:1.9.96.0~svn757194-1ubuntu1~gutsy1~ppa1 is basically 1:1.9.96.0~svn757194-1ubuntu2, I added the build-dep on the 1st upload :)11:59
Riddellstdin: clever clever12:02
stdinand I've given up on kdeartwork-kde4, it's insane! it builds fine locally in a gutsy pbuilder but not on the PPA buildd I think I got up to ~ppa712:03
stdineven patched debchange to allow -i with ~ppa revisions :p12:03
Riddellcrazy12:05
stdinwell there is a amd64 and an i386 package up, may not be the same version but it should be ok12:06
Lureany kde4 desktop user that can test one digikam/kde3 issue?12:08
fdovingsure.12:08
fdovingi have compiled my own kde4, but that won't matter, i guess?12:09
fdovingjust finished burning an album to cd with the new k3b. :)12:09
Lurefdoving: can you start digikam/kde3 in kde4 session and check if proper albums show photos?12:09
fdovingi use a 'start3app' bash function to set the proper environment variables.12:09
Lurefdoving: for me it only shows date and search albums12:09
fdovingnot sure how it behaves without that.12:09
Lurefdoving: same here12:09
LureI get no error on console, but also no photos in folder view12:10
Lure:-(12:10
Lurefdoving: so k3b/kde4 works?12:10
* Lure adds it to build list...12:10
fdovingwell, it crashes when i try to write cd images.12:11
fdovingit's not ready to be used, i guess.12:12
fdovingmenus are incomplete etc.12:12
Lurefdoving: ok, but it might be before hardy release...12:12
LureRiddell:  is there any plan to have some beta versions of kde4 available for users?12:12
fdovingLure: yep. might.12:12
LureRiddell: maybe at least in kde4-beta ppa or similar12:13
RiddellLure: huh?  we've been doing that for ages12:14
LureRiddell: I mean with some commitment/support?12:14
RiddellLure: what sort of commitment/support? the packages are there, they work12:15
LureRiddell: you are probably right, standard kubuntu.org release/announcement should do it12:15
LureRiddell:  it will be just more apps now to cover (koffice2, extragear...)12:16
mzungumenu ->xchat->network list12:16
mzunguoops!12:17
Luremzungu: it is menu -> konversation -> network list over here ;-)12:17
Riddellmzungu! you havn't been killed in political riots12:17
mzungu;)12:17
mzungunope - still alive!12:17
mzungusmoke on the near horizon ;)12:18
mzunguseriously - not as bad as the press reports!12:18
Riddellphew12:18
mzunguLure: tried all other clients, and just keep coming back to xchat12:19
mzunguthanks for asking, guys12:19
mzunguwe were a bit worried for a couple of days - but things are returning to normal12:20
fdovingthey managed to find some not-so-nice pictures to send on tv last night. good thing if it's normalizing.12:21
mzungutv/media BAD PPL!12:27
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blizzzekdoes anyone know if flabby windows are planned to be a feature of kde4 desktop/window effects?14:16
Lurecan some core-dev approve bug 18077815:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 180778 in digikam "[hardy] Please sync digikam 0.9.3 from debian" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18077815:19
Lurethen some archive-admin can do the sync (Riddell and Hobbsee comes to mind ;-))15:19
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RiddellLure: done15:37
LureRiddell: thanks15:38
LureRiddell: kdebase-workspace: did you just upload my debdiff or did you also try it (kdm does not work on my clean system)15:38
LureRiddell: and btw, when is the plan to switch to released tarballs? Are we waiting for debian?15:39
Jucatowhat's the repo again for our most up-to-date kde4 packages? (after rc2?) if we have any :)16:45
stdinJucato: same as rc2 repos, kubuntu-members-kde416:47
Jucatostdin: thankies :)16:47
Riddellstdin: does cfitsio3 need to be backported?17:35
Riddellfor gutsy?17:35
Riddellgutsy has the same upstream version as hardy17:36
stdinI had to backport libcfitsio libnova and soprano17:36
Riddellstdin: any changes needed?17:36
stdinnope17:37
Riddellstdin: I'll put them into gutsy-backports then17:37
Riddellstdin: want me to sync in your name for the extra karma?17:38
stdinRiddell: sure, I love karma :)17:38
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=== jpatrick changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Welcome to the Kubuntu developers channel | Next meeting: 12nd January 11:00 | Happy New Year
Riddellthanks jpatrick18:46
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nixternalback to building extragear love18:54
nixternalRiddell: can you explain why these packages are not building to debian/tmp but instead to debian/<package_name>?19:00
nixternalI am using the same cdbs as all other kde4 packages19:00
Riddellnixternal: that's what always happens with packages that build only one binary package19:20
nixternalahhh, ok19:27
Riddellmhb: poke poke "A: Yes, you will be able to download it from kubuntu.org." is wrong, it'll be on cdimage.ubuntu.com same as always19:32
Riddellprobably on releases.ubuntu.com too19:33
jpatrickRiddell: no problem19:47
mhbRiddell: well, for me and the rest of the ordinary boys, we go to kubuntu.org to click ourselves through the maze to get the image19:55
mhbRiddell: I was not referring to the server exactly, but rather to the place where the link will be located, and that is undoubtedly kubuntu.org19:55
Riddellmhb: fair enough, just the sysadmins are a bit touchy after I killed the pipes by putting the last KDE 4 CD on kubuntu.org :)19:56
mhbI'll clarify it as a comment19:56
jpatrickRiddell: someone has yet to approve rouzic and smarter in ~kubuntu-members19:56
rouzicpon... oh, wait!19:57
smarterYes, that would be nice ;)19:58
ScottKmhb: The way you phrased it in your blog entry made it sound like KDE3 is seriously deprecated for Hardy20:02
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jpatricklast meetings minutes availible at http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/minutes/20:17
mhbScottK: hmm, I don't read it that way20:24
mhbScottK: AFAIK I wrote about the KDE3 CD being available.20:24
Riddellthanks jpatrick, can you link from the Kubuntu/Meetings page?20:24
jpatrickRiddell: I shall do that (and write up the rest of meetings from now), after my custard20:25
ScottKmhb: You wrote KDE4 via shipit and KDE3 via kubuntu.org (which is where we get all the unsupported updates and stuff).20:26
ScottKSounds to me like KDE4 is all Kubuntu is worried about for Hardy.20:26
mhbScottK: sorry to disagree, but that was simply not there.20:27
mhbit is an incorrect deduction ... I guess you could deduce a lot of things from it, but many would be not true20:28
mhbkubuntu.org is our main site, after all :o)20:28
ScottKBut kubuntu.org is not where releases get downloaded from.20:29
mhbScottK: that's a valid point, it's addressed in the comments20:29
ScottKThe comments don't show in my RSS reader.20:30
jjesse_nixternal: whats the weather like in chi-town20:30
jjesse_stupid airport delays20:30
mhbScottK: right, well ... if I updated the blog post it would get to the top of the planet.ubuntu.com again, and that's not a good practice. I would consider that as an option if the error was serious... but the text is short and simple by design20:32
ScottKOK.20:32
mhbthere's nothing in there that suggests KDE3 being second class IMHO. In fact, there's nothing about it.20:32
nixternaljjesse_: about 60 degrees20:32
ScottKIf only KDE4 is being shipped via shipit, then it's clear what the primary is.20:33
jjesse_i thought  both kde3 and kde4 were being shipped via shipit20:33
ScottKNot according to mhb's blog post20:34
jjesse_hrmmm20:34
ScottKAs nearly as I can tell, the plan now is to focus on making Kubuntu 8.04 great for 'technology enthusiasts' with those of us who use it for actual work getting not a lot out of it.20:34
jpatrickScottK: it was decided at the meeting that we'd "big up the KDE 4 CD as being the interesting and exciting one, we put it on release.u.c, have it on shipit and generally make it the focus of our messaging"20:35
mhbjjesse_: also according to the meeting minutes jpatrick did a few minutes ago20:35
jjesse_dang it i always  miss the metgs20:35
ScottKjpatrick: This confirms what I said.20:36
mhbScottK: well, not quite. What is true that you won't get much more compared to Gutsy.20:36
jjesse_nixternal: is it foggy or what there?  just wondering why everything is delayed20:36
mhbScottK: which is not entirely our fault (KDE3 development has stopped)20:36
mhbScottK: the KDE4 CD is targeted at enthusiasts and power users, that's true20:37
mhbScottK: however, if all the apps fit on the CD, I don't see a reason why your productivity could be harmed20:38
mhbScottK: or is that really dependent on the position of the panel?20:38
mhbmost of the KDE4 apps that are not done will be replaced by the KDE3 ones20:38
mhbkontact, amarok, kaffeine, digikam, k3b too I guess ... ale KDE320:39
mhball20:39
ScottKSo I get my shippit CD and upgrade to a less stable KDE4 environment to run the same Kontact I've always run?20:40
mhbno, you upgrade via internet and get the same KDE3 you've always run20:40
mhbor you install KDE4 CD and get KDE3's Kontact, yes.20:41
mhbI find it sensible that we should ship (hybrid) KDE4 CDs ... after all, Gutsy was not really a big improvement over Feisty feature-wise and most of us is having one of those at home ... why ship another same ol' KDE3 to the users?20:42
mhbwe just need to communicate well that KDE4 CD is not LTS.20:43
mhbit's not even normal release20:43
ScottKThat's the problem.  There is no 'normal release' for Kubuntu Hardy.20:44
Riddelljpatrick: added smarter and rouzic, thanks for the reminder20:45
Tm_Thi kids20:45
RiddellScottK: the KDE 3 release is the normal one, the KDE 4 release is the interesting one20:45
smarterRiddell: thanks20:45
jjesse_which one will be abailable on shipit?20:46
jpatrickjjesse_: KDE420:46
jjesse_intereseting20:46
ScottKRiddell: It'd be nice to be able to get official CDs from shipit for KDE3.  I can't really hand out KDE4 CDs to people I'm trying to convert20:46
jpatrickthis is why I write the minutes...20:46
jjesse_agreed ScottK20:46
RiddellScottK: best order some gutsy CDs then20:47
* ScottK goes to order more.20:47
mhbor hand out Ubuntu, it will be LTS and it's got all the marketing/developer power behind it20:48
Tm_Tnoone stops installing KDE into that :)20:48
Nightrose(or burn some cds yourself...)20:49
rouzicthanks Riddell :-p20:49
Riddellmhb: ug20:49
mhbRiddell: ug? what does that mean? I'm not happy about it, but it's true.20:49
ScottKNightrose: Handing out self-burned CDs doesn't look professional20:50
mhbit's got all the developers power and with the LTS removing action, it's got all marketing for itself, too20:50
RiddellScottK: put them in the shipit covers20:50
Nightroseyea20:51
ScottKWell I just asked for more.20:51
Riddellmhb: so it doesn't need our help, we should be promoting Kubuntu20:51
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jpatrickRiddell: apt-cache show kturtle-kde4 - last line says see KDE3 packages for more info21:21
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Vorianis there something I can help with?   :)21:29
jjesse_i love ariports21:33
nosrednaekimbig ones? or munincipal ones21:35
jjesse_alll airports21:37
jjesse_was scheduled to leave at 3:0021:37
jjesse_still havent left21:37
nosrednaekimoh.... sarcasm... ;)21:37
jjesse_sarcasM?21:37
nosrednaekimwell, obviously if you are behind time... you don't love airports.21:39
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jjesse_grin, just frustrated21:44
jjesse_chicago o'hare is always delayed21:44
jpatrickwhere's dolphin-kde4 ?21:44
crimsun(in universe?)21:45
jpatrickin the new KDE 4.0 packages I mean21:46
jpatrickah, found it21:48
nosrednaekim4.0 packages are already out?21:49
Riddelljpatrick: fair point but I don't think it's worth fixing this week21:49
RiddellVorian: do you know how to make packages?21:49
jpatricknosrednaekim: in PPA and hardy21:49
VorianRiddell: yep, not so well from scratch however21:50
nosrednaekimjpatrick: wow.... bet kubuntu is the first distro to have packages :)21:50
Lure_is it just me, or smb:// does not work properly in kde4? when I copy stuff to XP share it get stalled after several KBs21:51
RiddellVorian: ask nixternal for an extragear app to package if you want21:51
VorianRiddell: sounds great :)21:51
jjesse_front page of kubuntu meetings shows the date as january 0721:51
jpatrickRiddell: shame most are still in new..21:51
VorianRiddell: and thanks :)21:51
Riddelljpatrick: most what?21:52
Vorianbbl21:52
jpatrickRiddell: of the kde4 extragears apps we've uploaded21:52
Riddelljpatrick: well we can't let 4.0 packages through until closer to the release day21:52
jpatrickok21:53
* nosrednaekim thinks thats rather unfair.... ;)21:53
Riddellnosrednaekim: the alternative is we dont get the tars a week early21:54
nosrednaekimyeah... I know.... but i'm just a selfish user...21:54
toma_kde4 extragear tarballs were all ok ?22:02
RiddellVorian: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/ktorrent-4.0.0.tar.bz2 if you want to start on one22:04
RiddellVorian: get the old packages from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/hardy/new/22:04
jpatrickupdate rules too22:04
Riddelltoma_: ask nixternal for that22:06
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