[00:36] <mhb> hmm, I guess #kde hates me because of me being a Kubuntu user :o)
[00:36] <mhb> not only nobody really answered my questions, they also managed to complain about kubuntu in the 15-minute interval I was there.
[00:38] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm sure that could happen in just about any channel
[00:39] <mhb> oh, do they complain about Kubuntu in all channels now?
[00:39] <mhb> it's good to be home then.
[00:41] <Riddell> mhb: what do they complain about?
[00:42] <Riddell> stdin: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2008-January/thread.html
[00:42] <Riddell> search for kdeadmin-kde4 down to koffice2
[00:43] <LaserJock> mhb: well, if it's a popular distro complaints within 15min doesn't seem out of the ordinary ;-)
[00:43] <stdin> Riddell: yeah, I got now. but I wanted to ask if cdbs (>= 0.4.50) was really needed for kdemultimedia-kde4?
[00:43] <mhb> the same old Sho_ song (Kubuntu's KDE diverges from upstream, et cetera)
[00:43] <LaserJock> and not answering questions is a common IRC thing
[00:44] <Riddell> stdin: i don't know but it shouldn't be different from any other kde4 package
[00:44] <mhb> LaserJock: sure, but the complaining bit convinced me to keep away from that channel :o)
[00:57] <stdin> Riddell: also kdeartwork-kde4 FTBFS on i386 (and lpia) http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11169794/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.kdeartwork-kde4_4%3A3.98.0%7Esvn755919-1ubuntu1%7Egutsy1%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[00:59] <Riddell> stdin: oh, xscreensaver foo
[00:59] <Riddell> stdin: you can edit the .install files until you get them right if you want
[00:59] <Riddell> or not bother, it's not the most important module
[01:00] <stdin> I'll see how I feel after getting some coffee on and rummaging for food :p
[01:02] <Riddell> fooey, koffice2 broke
[01:03]  * Hobbsee waves
[01:05] <stdin> Riddell: needs build-dep on libphonon-dev ?
[01:05] <stdin> hello Hobbsee \o
[01:06]  * Hobbsee despams various mailing lsits, and hugs listadmin
[01:06] <Hobbsee> oh nice, someone's done u-d recently
[01:20] <Mez> Riddell - http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/109
[01:24] <mhb> ah, the kids
[01:25] <Riddell> i like messing with data
[01:25] <nixternal> hahahhaah
[01:26] <Mez> Riddell, got a link for the kubuntu design team?
[01:27] <Riddell> the what?
[01:27] <Mez> kubuntu artwork *
[01:27] <mhb> there's no such thing
[01:28] <Jucato> moin guys and Hobbsee! :)
[01:29] <mhb> Mez: we're very short on art people, in fact we have just kwwii who finds some time for Kubuntu artwork once in a while
[01:30] <Mez> ah... *slaps his designer friend(
[01:30] <Jucato> I have a kde3-kde4 questions (actually two): 1. are we using the same $KDEHOME for both kde3 and kde4? 2. How are we setting up the kde4 session so that it uses the qt4 binaries and libraries instead of qt3 (we use /etc/alternatives to choose between qt3 and qt4 right?)?
[01:30] <mhb> Mez: don't slap him, invite him to join the fun :o)
[01:30] <Mez> he enjoys it
[01:31] <Riddell> Jucato: 1) no 2) the normal linker way
[01:31] <Jucato> Riddell: oh. how do we separate the $KDEHOME's? is there a $KDE4HOME env var?
[01:32] <Jucato> thanks btw :)
[01:32] <Riddell> Jucato: we don't use the environment variable, it's patched in kdelibs
[01:32] <Jucato> aaah ok. thanks :)
[01:32] <Mez> Riddell - I've updated the facebook stuff a lil (added kubuntu - but left "I am your father"
[01:36] <mhb> Riddell: any chance we could propagate our patches back to upstream so I'll feel less hated in #kde in the future? :o)
[01:36] <mhb> KDE4 patches, that is...
[01:37] <Riddell> mhb: we don't have any KDE 4 patches, other than the ones from debian
[01:37] <Hobbsee> heya Jucato!
[01:37] <mhb> Riddell: so it's patched in upstream?
[01:37] <mhb> the $KDEHOME env var
[01:37] <mhb> or debian?
[01:38] <Riddell> mhb: that is patched upstream in debian, who got it from suse.  for obvious reasons it's not going to be patched in kde
[01:39] <mhb> I should invite captain obvious for tea because he's not here right now
[01:40] <mhb> Riddell: rephrasing the sentence above, what's the obvious reason for not accepting a patch everyone actually uses?
[01:41] <Riddell> mhb: in this case KDE assumes you are only using one version of KDE, we are allowing to use two
[01:42] <mhb> so KDE doesn't like using two versions at once?
[01:42] <Riddell> not without changing KDEHOME
[01:42] <mhb> KDE as in "the KDE developers"
[01:43] <mhb> I still fail to grasp the reason why the would never include it
[01:43] <mhb> sorry
[01:43] <Riddell> will tell you it's a distro issue
[01:44] <Riddell> because they are assuming KDE 4 users are upgrading from KDE 3 once and for all.  we assume currently that KDE 4 users are slightly experimental and may want to change back
[01:45] <mhb> thank you for the explanation.
[02:00] <Hobbsee> kdeartwork (ppa) fell over
[02:03] <stdin> yeah I know, I'm trying to (forcibly) fix it now
[02:10] <yuriy> *sigh* kde 4 just crashed randomly
[04:50] <stdin> so, who feels like explaining why kdeartwork-kde4 built fine on amd64, then after I removed the files from the .install that stopped i386 from building, amd64 now fails. not finding files it seems to have found before? :/
[04:52] <nixternal> don't you just love packaging? :)
[04:56] <stdin> it's beginning to annoy me somewhat, I'll just keep hacking away at the .install until there's nothing there if I have to! :p
[04:59] <stdin> up goes ~ppa4
[05:02] <nixternal> oh wow, I just removed my kde-devel user and home directory....it freed up 40% of my darn drive
[05:02] <LaserJock> heh
[05:02] <LaserJock> KDE is *huge*
[05:03] <nixternal> kde 4 when debugfull is set for pretty much all of extragear, all of KDE, a lot of playground, and all of office
[05:28] <stdin> up goes ~ppa5...
[06:27] <stdin> and now for ~ppa6
[06:34] <nixternal> lol
[06:34] <nixternal> I am about 50% complete with extragear
[06:34] <nixternal> kcoloredit was kind of pointless for -kde4 package since nothing has changed in it since 2000
[06:34] <nixternal> heh
[09:31] <stdin> bah, I give up on kdeartwork-kde4, it's evil and I don't like it any more
[10:37] <hunger> Is there a xrndr applet shipped with kubuntu?
[10:39] <stdin> not that I can see
[10:40] <stdin> but I don't use xrandr so it could be hidden somewhere I don't look
[10:40] <hunger> stdin: I could only find some gtk-things as well:-(
[10:41] <hunger> stdin: ati got randr support a couple of days ago in hardy. I want to try that out;-)
[10:42] <stdin> man xrandr ;)
[10:42] <hunger> stdin: That is so 1980th;-)
[10:42] <stdin> ok, use man:/xrandr if it makes you feel better :p
[10:43] <hunger> That is so 1990th;-)
[10:50] <Lure> Riddell, stdin: improvement of kdebase-workspace package, but kdm-kde4 is still not working properly (not sure if our of upstream problem): http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lure/kdebase-workspace.diff
[10:51] <Lure> and we still need to decide what to do with manpages: currently they are installed on same location as kde3, therefore it would cause a conflict
[11:08] <fdoving> hunger: doesn't krandrtray work ?
[11:11] <hunger> fdoving: Where can I get that?
[11:12] <fdoving> you probably have it.
[11:12] <fdoving> kcontrol: /usr/bin/krandrtray
[11:12] <fdoving> alt+f2, 'krandrtray'
[11:12] <fdoving> brb.
[11:12] <hunger> fdoving: Ah, great! I was looking all over aptitude for something;-)
[11:13] <fdoving> not sure this old krandrtray is working with the new xrandr 1.2. but you'll find out.
[11:14] <fdoving> bbl.
[11:57] <Riddell> stdin: koffice2 seems to have compiled now
[11:59] <stdin> Riddell: yeah, 1:1.9.96.0~svn757194-1ubuntu1~gutsy1~ppa1 is basically 1:1.9.96.0~svn757194-1ubuntu2, I added the build-dep on the 1st upload :)
[12:02] <Riddell> stdin: clever clever
[12:03] <stdin> and I've given up on kdeartwork-kde4, it's insane! it builds fine locally in a gutsy pbuilder but not on the PPA buildd I think I got up to ~ppa7
[12:03] <stdin> even patched debchange to allow -i with ~ppa revisions :p
[12:05] <Riddell> crazy
[12:06] <stdin> well there is a amd64 and an i386 package up, may not be the same version but it should be ok
[12:08] <Lure> any kde4 desktop user that can test one digikam/kde3 issue?
[12:08] <fdoving> sure.
[12:09] <fdoving> i have compiled my own kde4, but that won't matter, i guess?
[12:09] <fdoving> just finished burning an album to cd with the new k3b. :)
[12:09] <Lure> fdoving: can you start digikam/kde3 in kde4 session and check if proper albums show photos?
[12:09] <fdoving> i use a 'start3app' bash function to set the proper environment variables.
[12:09] <Lure> fdoving: for me it only shows date and search albums
[12:09] <fdoving> not sure how it behaves without that.
[12:09] <Lure> fdoving: same here
[12:10] <Lure> I get no error on console, but also no photos in folder view
[12:10] <Lure> :-(
[12:10] <Lure> fdoving: so k3b/kde4 works?
[12:10]  * Lure adds it to build list...
[12:11] <fdoving> well, it crashes when i try to write cd images.
[12:12] <fdoving> it's not ready to be used, i guess.
[12:12] <fdoving> menus are incomplete etc.
[12:12] <Lure> fdoving: ok, but it might be before hardy release...
[12:12] <Lure> Riddell:  is there any plan to have some beta versions of kde4 available for users?
[12:12] <fdoving> Lure: yep. might.
[12:13] <Lure> Riddell: maybe at least in kde4-beta ppa or similar
[12:14] <Riddell> Lure: huh?  we've been doing that for ages
[12:14] <Lure> Riddell: I mean with some commitment/support?
[12:15] <Riddell> Lure: what sort of commitment/support? the packages are there, they work
[12:15] <Lure> Riddell: you are probably right, standard kubuntu.org release/announcement should do it
[12:16] <Lure> Riddell:  it will be just more apps now to cover (koffice2, extragear...)
[12:16] <mzungu> menu ->xchat->network list
[12:17] <mzungu> oops!
[12:17] <Lure> mzungu: it is menu -> konversation -> network list over here ;-)
[12:17] <Riddell> mzungu! you havn't been killed in political riots
[12:17] <mzungu> ;)
[12:17] <mzungu> nope - still alive!
[12:18] <mzungu> smoke on the near horizon ;)
[12:18] <mzungu> seriously - not as bad as the press reports!
[12:18] <Riddell> phew
[12:19] <mzungu> Lure: tried all other clients, and just keep coming back to xchat
[12:19] <mzungu> thanks for asking, guys
[12:20] <mzungu> we were a bit worried for a couple of days - but things are returning to normal
[12:21] <fdoving> they managed to find some not-so-nice pictures to send on tv last night. good thing if it's normalizing.
[12:27] <mzungu> tv/media BAD PPL!
[14:16] <blizzzek> does anyone know if flabby windows are planned to be a feature of kde4 desktop/window effects?
[15:19] <Lure> can some core-dev approve bug 180778
[15:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 180778 in digikam "[hardy] Please sync digikam 0.9.3 from debian" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180778
[15:19] <Lure> then some archive-admin can do the sync (Riddell and Hobbsee comes to mind ;-))
[15:37] <Riddell> Lure: done
[15:38] <Lure> Riddell: thanks
[15:38] <Lure> Riddell: kdebase-workspace: did you just upload my debdiff or did you also try it (kdm does not work on my clean system)
[15:39] <Lure> Riddell: and btw, when is the plan to switch to released tarballs? Are we waiting for debian?
[16:45] <Jucato> what's the repo again for our most up-to-date kde4 packages? (after rc2?) if we have any :)
[16:47] <stdin> Jucato: same as rc2 repos, kubuntu-members-kde4
[16:47] <Jucato> stdin: thankies :)
[17:35] <Riddell> stdin: does cfitsio3 need to be backported?
[17:35] <Riddell> for gutsy?
[17:36] <Riddell> gutsy has the same upstream version as hardy
[17:36] <stdin> I had to backport libcfitsio libnova and soprano
[17:36] <Riddell> stdin: any changes needed?
[17:37] <stdin> nope
[17:37] <Riddell> stdin: I'll put them into gutsy-backports then
[17:38] <Riddell> stdin: want me to sync in your name for the extra karma?
[17:38] <stdin> Riddell: sure, I love karma :)
[18:46] <Riddell> thanks jpatrick
[18:54] <nixternal> back to building extragear love
[19:00] <nixternal> Riddell: can you explain why these packages are not building to debian/tmp but instead to debian/<package_name>?
[19:00] <nixternal> I am using the same cdbs as all other kde4 packages
[19:20] <Riddell> nixternal: that's what always happens with packages that build only one binary package
[19:27] <nixternal> ahhh, ok
[19:32] <Riddell> mhb: poke poke "A: Yes, you will be able to download it from kubuntu.org." is wrong, it'll be on cdimage.ubuntu.com same as always
[19:33] <Riddell> probably on releases.ubuntu.com too
[19:47] <jpatrick> Riddell: no problem
[19:55] <mhb> Riddell: well, for me and the rest of the ordinary boys, we go to kubuntu.org to click ourselves through the maze to get the image
[19:55] <mhb> Riddell: I was not referring to the server exactly, but rather to the place where the link will be located, and that is undoubtedly kubuntu.org
[19:56] <Riddell> mhb: fair enough, just the sysadmins are a bit touchy after I killed the pipes by putting the last KDE 4 CD on kubuntu.org :)
[19:56] <mhb> I'll clarify it as a comment
[19:56] <jpatrick> Riddell: someone has yet to approve rouzic and smarter in ~kubuntu-members
[19:57] <rouzic> pon... oh, wait!
[19:58] <smarter> Yes, that would be nice ;)
[20:02] <ScottK> mhb: The way you phrased it in your blog entry made it sound like KDE3 is seriously deprecated for Hardy
[20:17] <jpatrick> last meetings minutes availible at http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/minutes/
[20:24] <mhb> ScottK: hmm, I don't read it that way
[20:24] <mhb> ScottK: AFAIK I wrote about the KDE3 CD being available.
[20:24] <Riddell> thanks jpatrick, can you link from the Kubuntu/Meetings page?
[20:25] <jpatrick> Riddell: I shall do that (and write up the rest of meetings from now), after my custard
[20:26] <ScottK> mhb: You wrote KDE4 via shipit and KDE3 via kubuntu.org (which is where we get all the unsupported updates and stuff).
[20:26] <ScottK> Sounds to me like KDE4 is all Kubuntu is worried about for Hardy.
[20:27] <mhb> ScottK: sorry to disagree, but that was simply not there.
[20:28] <mhb> it is an incorrect deduction ... I guess you could deduce a lot of things from it, but many would be not true
[20:28] <mhb> kubuntu.org is our main site, after all :o)
[20:29] <ScottK> But kubuntu.org is not where releases get downloaded from.
[20:29] <mhb> ScottK: that's a valid point, it's addressed in the comments
[20:30] <ScottK> The comments don't show in my RSS reader.
[20:30] <jjesse_> nixternal: whats the weather like in chi-town
[20:30] <jjesse_> stupid airport delays
[20:32] <mhb> ScottK: right, well ... if I updated the blog post it would get to the top of the planet.ubuntu.com again, and that's not a good practice. I would consider that as an option if the error was serious... but the text is short and simple by design
[20:32] <ScottK> OK.
[20:32] <mhb> there's nothing in there that suggests KDE3 being second class IMHO. In fact, there's nothing about it.
[20:32] <nixternal> jjesse_: about 60 degrees
[20:33] <ScottK> If only KDE4 is being shipped via shipit, then it's clear what the primary is.
[20:33] <jjesse_> i thought  both kde3 and kde4 were being shipped via shipit
[20:34] <ScottK> Not according to mhb's blog post
[20:34] <jjesse_> hrmmm
[20:34] <ScottK> As nearly as I can tell, the plan now is to focus on making Kubuntu 8.04 great for 'technology enthusiasts' with those of us who use it for actual work getting not a lot out of it.
[20:35] <jpatrick> ScottK: it was decided at the meeting that we'd "big up the KDE 4 CD as being the interesting and exciting one, we put it on release.u.c, have it on shipit and generally make it the focus of our messaging"
[20:35] <mhb> jjesse_: also according to the meeting minutes jpatrick did a few minutes ago
[20:35] <jjesse_> dang it i always  miss the metgs
[20:36] <ScottK> jpatrick: This confirms what I said.
[20:36] <mhb> ScottK: well, not quite. What is true that you won't get much more compared to Gutsy.
[20:36] <jjesse_> nixternal: is it foggy or what there?  just wondering why everything is delayed
[20:36] <mhb> ScottK: which is not entirely our fault (KDE3 development has stopped)
[20:37] <mhb> ScottK: the KDE4 CD is targeted at enthusiasts and power users, that's true
[20:38] <mhb> ScottK: however, if all the apps fit on the CD, I don't see a reason why your productivity could be harmed
[20:38] <mhb> ScottK: or is that really dependent on the position of the panel?
[20:38] <mhb> most of the KDE4 apps that are not done will be replaced by the KDE3 ones
[20:39] <mhb> kontact, amarok, kaffeine, digikam, k3b too I guess ... ale KDE3
[20:39] <mhb> all
[20:40] <ScottK> So I get my shippit CD and upgrade to a less stable KDE4 environment to run the same Kontact I've always run?
[20:40] <mhb> no, you upgrade via internet and get the same KDE3 you've always run
[20:41] <mhb> or you install KDE4 CD and get KDE3's Kontact, yes.
[20:42] <mhb> I find it sensible that we should ship (hybrid) KDE4 CDs ... after all, Gutsy was not really a big improvement over Feisty feature-wise and most of us is having one of those at home ... why ship another same ol' KDE3 to the users?
[20:43] <mhb> we just need to communicate well that KDE4 CD is not LTS.
[20:43] <mhb> it's not even normal release
[20:44] <ScottK> That's the problem.  There is no 'normal release' for Kubuntu Hardy.
[20:45] <Riddell> jpatrick: added smarter and rouzic, thanks for the reminder
[20:45] <Tm_T> hi kids
[20:45] <Riddell> ScottK: the KDE 3 release is the normal one, the KDE 4 release is the interesting one
[20:45] <smarter> Riddell: thanks
[20:46] <jjesse_> which one will be abailable on shipit?
[20:46] <jpatrick> jjesse_: KDE4
[20:46] <jjesse_> intereseting
[20:46] <ScottK> Riddell: It'd be nice to be able to get official CDs from shipit for KDE3.  I can't really hand out KDE4 CDs to people I'm trying to convert
[20:46] <jpatrick> this is why I write the minutes...
[20:46] <jjesse_> agreed ScottK
[20:47] <Riddell> ScottK: best order some gutsy CDs then
[20:47]  * ScottK goes to order more.
[20:48] <mhb> or hand out Ubuntu, it will be LTS and it's got all the marketing/developer power behind it
[20:48] <Tm_T> noone stops installing KDE into that :)
[20:49] <Nightrose> (or burn some cds yourself...)
[20:49] <rouzic> thanks Riddell :-p
[20:49] <Riddell> mhb: ug
[20:49] <mhb> Riddell: ug? what does that mean? I'm not happy about it, but it's true.
[20:50] <ScottK> Nightrose: Handing out self-burned CDs doesn't look professional
[20:50] <mhb> it's got all the developers power and with the LTS removing action, it's got all marketing for itself, too
[20:50] <Riddell> ScottK: put them in the shipit covers
[20:51] <Nightrose> yea
[20:51] <ScottK> Well I just asked for more.
[20:51] <Riddell> mhb: so it doesn't need our help, we should be promoting Kubuntu
[21:21] <jpatrick> Riddell: apt-cache show kturtle-kde4 - last line says see KDE3 packages for more info
[21:29] <Vorian> is there something I can help with?   :)
[21:33] <jjesse_> i love ariports
[21:35] <nosrednaekim> big ones? or munincipal ones
[21:37] <jjesse_> alll airports
[21:37] <jjesse_> was scheduled to leave at 3:00
[21:37] <jjesse_> still havent left
[21:37] <nosrednaekim> oh.... sarcasm... ;)
[21:37] <jjesse_> sarcasM?
[21:39] <nosrednaekim> well, obviously if you are behind time... you don't love airports.
[21:44] <jjesse_> grin, just frustrated
[21:44] <jjesse_> chicago o'hare is always delayed
[21:44] <jpatrick> where's dolphin-kde4 ?
[21:45] <crimsun> (in universe?)
[21:46] <jpatrick> in the new KDE 4.0 packages I mean
[21:48] <jpatrick> ah, found it
[21:49] <nosrednaekim> 4.0 packages are already out?
[21:49] <Riddell> jpatrick: fair point but I don't think it's worth fixing this week
[21:49] <Riddell> Vorian: do you know how to make packages?
[21:49] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: in PPA and hardy
[21:50] <Vorian> Riddell: yep, not so well from scratch however
[21:50] <nosrednaekim> jpatrick: wow.... bet kubuntu is the first distro to have packages :)
[21:51] <Lure_> is it just me, or smb:// does not work properly in kde4? when I copy stuff to XP share it get stalled after several KBs
[21:51] <Riddell> Vorian: ask nixternal for an extragear app to package if you want
[21:51] <Vorian> Riddell: sounds great :)
[21:51] <jjesse_> front page of kubuntu meetings shows the date as january 07
[21:51] <jpatrick> Riddell: shame most are still in new..
[21:51] <Vorian> Riddell: and thanks :)
[21:52] <Riddell> jpatrick: most what?
[21:52] <Vorian> bbl
[21:52] <jpatrick> Riddell: of the kde4 extragears apps we've uploaded
[21:52] <Riddell> jpatrick: well we can't let 4.0 packages through until closer to the release day
[21:53] <jpatrick> ok
[21:53]  * nosrednaekim thinks thats rather unfair.... ;)
[21:54] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: the alternative is we dont get the tars a week early
[21:54] <nosrednaekim> yeah... I know.... but i'm just a selfish user...
[22:02] <toma_> kde4 extragear tarballs were all ok ?
[22:04] <Riddell> Vorian: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/ktorrent-4.0.0.tar.bz2 if you want to start on one
[22:04] <Riddell> Vorian: get the old packages from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/hardy/new/
[22:04] <jpatrick> update rules too
[22:06] <Riddell> toma_: ask nixternal for that