[00:36] hmm, I guess #kde hates me because of me being a Kubuntu user :o) [00:36] not only nobody really answered my questions, they also managed to complain about kubuntu in the 15-minute interval I was there. [00:38] hmm, I'm sure that could happen in just about any channel [00:39] oh, do they complain about Kubuntu in all channels now? [00:39] it's good to be home then. [00:41] mhb: what do they complain about? [00:42] stdin: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2008-January/thread.html [00:42] search for kdeadmin-kde4 down to koffice2 [00:43] mhb: well, if it's a popular distro complaints within 15min doesn't seem out of the ordinary ;-) [00:43] Riddell: yeah, I got now. but I wanted to ask if cdbs (>= 0.4.50) was really needed for kdemultimedia-kde4? [00:43] the same old Sho_ song (Kubuntu's KDE diverges from upstream, et cetera) [00:43] and not answering questions is a common IRC thing [00:44] stdin: i don't know but it shouldn't be different from any other kde4 package [00:44] LaserJock: sure, but the complaining bit convinced me to keep away from that channel :o) [00:57] Riddell: also kdeartwork-kde4 FTBFS on i386 (and lpia) http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11169794/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.kdeartwork-kde4_4%3A3.98.0%7Esvn755919-1ubuntu1%7Egutsy1%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz [00:59] stdin: oh, xscreensaver foo [00:59] stdin: you can edit the .install files until you get them right if you want [00:59] or not bother, it's not the most important module [01:00] I'll see how I feel after getting some coffee on and rummaging for food :p [01:02] fooey, koffice2 broke [01:03] * Hobbsee waves [01:05] Riddell: needs build-dep on libphonon-dev ? [01:05] hello Hobbsee \o [01:06] * Hobbsee despams various mailing lsits, and hugs listadmin [01:06] oh nice, someone's done u-d recently [01:20] Riddell - http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/109 [01:24] ah, the kids [01:25] i like messing with data [01:25] hahahhaah [01:26] Riddell, got a link for the kubuntu design team? [01:27] the what? [01:27] kubuntu artwork * [01:27] there's no such thing [01:28] moin guys and Hobbsee! :) [01:29] Mez: we're very short on art people, in fact we have just kwwii who finds some time for Kubuntu artwork once in a while [01:30] ah... *slaps his designer friend( [01:30] I have a kde3-kde4 questions (actually two): 1. are we using the same $KDEHOME for both kde3 and kde4? 2. How are we setting up the kde4 session so that it uses the qt4 binaries and libraries instead of qt3 (we use /etc/alternatives to choose between qt3 and qt4 right?)? [01:30] Mez: don't slap him, invite him to join the fun :o) [01:30] he enjoys it [01:31] Jucato: 1) no 2) the normal linker way [01:31] Riddell: oh. how do we separate the $KDEHOME's? is there a $KDE4HOME env var? [01:32] thanks btw :) [01:32] Jucato: we don't use the environment variable, it's patched in kdelibs [01:32] aaah ok. thanks :) [01:32] Riddell - I've updated the facebook stuff a lil (added kubuntu - but left "I am your father" [01:36] Riddell: any chance we could propagate our patches back to upstream so I'll feel less hated in #kde in the future? :o) [01:36] KDE4 patches, that is... [01:37] mhb: we don't have any KDE 4 patches, other than the ones from debian [01:37] heya Jucato! [01:37] Riddell: so it's patched in upstream? [01:37] the $KDEHOME env var [01:37] or debian? [01:38] mhb: that is patched upstream in debian, who got it from suse. for obvious reasons it's not going to be patched in kde [01:39] I should invite captain obvious for tea because he's not here right now [01:40] Riddell: rephrasing the sentence above, what's the obvious reason for not accepting a patch everyone actually uses? [01:41] mhb: in this case KDE assumes you are only using one version of KDE, we are allowing to use two [01:42] so KDE doesn't like using two versions at once? [01:42] not without changing KDEHOME [01:42] KDE as in "the KDE developers" [01:43] I still fail to grasp the reason why the would never include it [01:43] sorry [01:43] will tell you it's a distro issue [01:44] because they are assuming KDE 4 users are upgrading from KDE 3 once and for all. we assume currently that KDE 4 users are slightly experimental and may want to change back [01:45] thank you for the explanation. === uga is now known as uga|away === nivek_ is now known as nivek [02:00] kdeartwork (ppa) fell over [02:03] yeah I know, I'm trying to (forcibly) fix it now [02:10] *sigh* kde 4 just crashed randomly === dacuad is now known as krawek [04:50] so, who feels like explaining why kdeartwork-kde4 built fine on amd64, then after I removed the files from the .install that stopped i386 from building, amd64 now fails. not finding files it seems to have found before? :/ [04:52] don't you just love packaging? :) [04:56] it's beginning to annoy me somewhat, I'll just keep hacking away at the .install until there's nothing there if I have to! :p [04:59] up goes ~ppa4 [05:02] oh wow, I just removed my kde-devel user and home directory....it freed up 40% of my darn drive [05:02] heh [05:02] KDE is *huge* [05:03] kde 4 when debugfull is set for pretty much all of extragear, all of KDE, a lot of playground, and all of office [05:28] up goes ~ppa5... [06:27] and now for ~ppa6 [06:34] lol [06:34] I am about 50% complete with extragear [06:34] kcoloredit was kind of pointless for -kde4 package since nothing has changed in it since 2000 [06:34] heh [09:31] bah, I give up on kdeartwork-kde4, it's evil and I don't like it any more [10:37] Is there a xrndr applet shipped with kubuntu? [10:39] not that I can see [10:40] but I don't use xrandr so it could be hidden somewhere I don't look [10:40] stdin: I could only find some gtk-things as well:-( [10:41] stdin: ati got randr support a couple of days ago in hardy. I want to try that out;-) [10:42] man xrandr ;) [10:42] stdin: That is so 1980th;-) [10:42] ok, use man:/xrandr if it makes you feel better :p [10:43] That is so 1990th;-) [10:50] Riddell, stdin: improvement of kdebase-workspace package, but kdm-kde4 is still not working properly (not sure if our of upstream problem): http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lure/kdebase-workspace.diff [10:51] and we still need to decide what to do with manpages: currently they are installed on same location as kde3, therefore it would cause a conflict [11:08] hunger: doesn't krandrtray work ? [11:11] fdoving: Where can I get that? [11:12] you probably have it. [11:12] kcontrol: /usr/bin/krandrtray [11:12] alt+f2, 'krandrtray' [11:12] brb. [11:12] fdoving: Ah, great! I was looking all over aptitude for something;-) [11:13] not sure this old krandrtray is working with the new xrandr 1.2. but you'll find out. [11:14] bbl. [11:57] stdin: koffice2 seems to have compiled now [11:59] Riddell: yeah, 1:1.9.96.0~svn757194-1ubuntu1~gutsy1~ppa1 is basically 1:1.9.96.0~svn757194-1ubuntu2, I added the build-dep on the 1st upload :) [12:02] stdin: clever clever [12:03] and I've given up on kdeartwork-kde4, it's insane! it builds fine locally in a gutsy pbuilder but not on the PPA buildd I think I got up to ~ppa7 [12:03] even patched debchange to allow -i with ~ppa revisions :p [12:05] crazy [12:06] well there is a amd64 and an i386 package up, may not be the same version but it should be ok [12:08] any kde4 desktop user that can test one digikam/kde3 issue? [12:08] sure. [12:09] i have compiled my own kde4, but that won't matter, i guess? [12:09] just finished burning an album to cd with the new k3b. :) [12:09] fdoving: can you start digikam/kde3 in kde4 session and check if proper albums show photos? [12:09] i use a 'start3app' bash function to set the proper environment variables. [12:09] fdoving: for me it only shows date and search albums [12:09] not sure how it behaves without that. [12:09] fdoving: same here [12:10] I get no error on console, but also no photos in folder view [12:10] :-( [12:10] fdoving: so k3b/kde4 works? [12:10] * Lure adds it to build list... [12:11] well, it crashes when i try to write cd images. [12:12] it's not ready to be used, i guess. [12:12] menus are incomplete etc. [12:12] fdoving: ok, but it might be before hardy release... [12:12] Riddell: is there any plan to have some beta versions of kde4 available for users? [12:12] Lure: yep. might. [12:13] Riddell: maybe at least in kde4-beta ppa or similar [12:14] Lure: huh? we've been doing that for ages [12:14] Riddell: I mean with some commitment/support? [12:15] Lure: what sort of commitment/support? the packages are there, they work [12:15] Riddell: you are probably right, standard kubuntu.org release/announcement should do it [12:16] Riddell: it will be just more apps now to cover (koffice2, extragear...) [12:16] menu ->xchat->network list [12:17] oops! [12:17] mzungu: it is menu -> konversation -> network list over here ;-) [12:17] mzungu! you havn't been killed in political riots [12:17] ;) [12:17] nope - still alive! [12:18] smoke on the near horizon ;) [12:18] seriously - not as bad as the press reports! [12:18] phew [12:19] Lure: tried all other clients, and just keep coming back to xchat [12:19] thanks for asking, guys [12:20] we were a bit worried for a couple of days - but things are returning to normal [12:21] they managed to find some not-so-nice pictures to send on tv last night. good thing if it's normalizing. [12:27] tv/media BAD PPL! === \sh_away is now known as \sh === tmske__ is now known as tmske === uga|away is now known as uga === kblizzzek is now known as blizzzek === kblizzzek is now known as blizzzek [14:16] does anyone know if flabby windows are planned to be a feature of kde4 desktop/window effects? [15:19] can some core-dev approve bug 180778 [15:19] Launchpad bug 180778 in digikam "[hardy] Please sync digikam 0.9.3 from debian" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180778 [15:19] then some archive-admin can do the sync (Riddell and Hobbsee comes to mind ;-)) === uga is now known as uga|away === gryc_ is now known as gryc [15:37] Lure: done [15:38] Riddell: thanks [15:38] Riddell: kdebase-workspace: did you just upload my debdiff or did you also try it (kdm does not work on my clean system) [15:39] Riddell: and btw, when is the plan to switch to released tarballs? Are we waiting for debian? [16:45] what's the repo again for our most up-to-date kde4 packages? (after rc2?) if we have any :) [16:47] Jucato: same as rc2 repos, kubuntu-members-kde4 [16:47] stdin: thankies :) [17:35] stdin: does cfitsio3 need to be backported? [17:35] for gutsy? [17:36] gutsy has the same upstream version as hardy [17:36] I had to backport libcfitsio libnova and soprano [17:36] stdin: any changes needed? [17:37] nope [17:37] stdin: I'll put them into gutsy-backports then [17:38] stdin: want me to sync in your name for the extra karma? [17:38] Riddell: sure, I love karma :) === blueyed__ is now known as blueyed === jpatrick changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Welcome to the Kubuntu developers channel | Next meeting: 12nd January 11:00 | Happy New Year [18:46] thanks jpatrick === jpetso is now known as jpetso_away [18:54] back to building extragear love [19:00] Riddell: can you explain why these packages are not building to debian/tmp but instead to debian/? [19:00] I am using the same cdbs as all other kde4 packages [19:20] nixternal: that's what always happens with packages that build only one binary package [19:27] ahhh, ok [19:32] mhb: poke poke "A: Yes, you will be able to download it from kubuntu.org." is wrong, it'll be on cdimage.ubuntu.com same as always [19:33] probably on releases.ubuntu.com too [19:47] Riddell: no problem [19:55] Riddell: well, for me and the rest of the ordinary boys, we go to kubuntu.org to click ourselves through the maze to get the image [19:55] Riddell: I was not referring to the server exactly, but rather to the place where the link will be located, and that is undoubtedly kubuntu.org [19:56] mhb: fair enough, just the sysadmins are a bit touchy after I killed the pipes by putting the last KDE 4 CD on kubuntu.org :) [19:56] I'll clarify it as a comment [19:56] Riddell: someone has yet to approve rouzic and smarter in ~kubuntu-members [19:57] pon... oh, wait! [19:58] Yes, that would be nice ;) [20:02] mhb: The way you phrased it in your blog entry made it sound like KDE3 is seriously deprecated for Hardy === uga|away is now known as uga [20:17] last meetings minutes availible at http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/minutes/ [20:24] ScottK: hmm, I don't read it that way [20:24] ScottK: AFAIK I wrote about the KDE3 CD being available. [20:24] thanks jpatrick, can you link from the Kubuntu/Meetings page? [20:25] Riddell: I shall do that (and write up the rest of meetings from now), after my custard [20:26] mhb: You wrote KDE4 via shipit and KDE3 via kubuntu.org (which is where we get all the unsupported updates and stuff). [20:26] Sounds to me like KDE4 is all Kubuntu is worried about for Hardy. [20:27] ScottK: sorry to disagree, but that was simply not there. [20:28] it is an incorrect deduction ... I guess you could deduce a lot of things from it, but many would be not true [20:28] kubuntu.org is our main site, after all :o) [20:29] But kubuntu.org is not where releases get downloaded from. [20:29] ScottK: that's a valid point, it's addressed in the comments [20:30] The comments don't show in my RSS reader. [20:30] nixternal: whats the weather like in chi-town [20:30] stupid airport delays [20:32] ScottK: right, well ... if I updated the blog post it would get to the top of the planet.ubuntu.com again, and that's not a good practice. I would consider that as an option if the error was serious... but the text is short and simple by design [20:32] OK. [20:32] there's nothing in there that suggests KDE3 being second class IMHO. In fact, there's nothing about it. [20:32] jjesse_: about 60 degrees [20:33] If only KDE4 is being shipped via shipit, then it's clear what the primary is. [20:33] i thought both kde3 and kde4 were being shipped via shipit [20:34] Not according to mhb's blog post [20:34] hrmmm [20:34] As nearly as I can tell, the plan now is to focus on making Kubuntu 8.04 great for 'technology enthusiasts' with those of us who use it for actual work getting not a lot out of it. [20:35] ScottK: it was decided at the meeting that we'd "big up the KDE 4 CD as being the interesting and exciting one, we put it on release.u.c, have it on shipit and generally make it the focus of our messaging" [20:35] jjesse_: also according to the meeting minutes jpatrick did a few minutes ago [20:35] dang it i always miss the metgs [20:36] jpatrick: This confirms what I said. [20:36] ScottK: well, not quite. What is true that you won't get much more compared to Gutsy. [20:36] nixternal: is it foggy or what there? just wondering why everything is delayed [20:36] ScottK: which is not entirely our fault (KDE3 development has stopped) [20:37] ScottK: the KDE4 CD is targeted at enthusiasts and power users, that's true [20:38] ScottK: however, if all the apps fit on the CD, I don't see a reason why your productivity could be harmed [20:38] ScottK: or is that really dependent on the position of the panel? [20:38] most of the KDE4 apps that are not done will be replaced by the KDE3 ones [20:39] kontact, amarok, kaffeine, digikam, k3b too I guess ... ale KDE3 [20:39] all [20:40] So I get my shippit CD and upgrade to a less stable KDE4 environment to run the same Kontact I've always run? [20:40] no, you upgrade via internet and get the same KDE3 you've always run [20:41] or you install KDE4 CD and get KDE3's Kontact, yes. [20:42] I find it sensible that we should ship (hybrid) KDE4 CDs ... after all, Gutsy was not really a big improvement over Feisty feature-wise and most of us is having one of those at home ... why ship another same ol' KDE3 to the users? [20:43] we just need to communicate well that KDE4 CD is not LTS. [20:43] it's not even normal release [20:44] That's the problem. There is no 'normal release' for Kubuntu Hardy. [20:45] jpatrick: added smarter and rouzic, thanks for the reminder [20:45] hi kids [20:45] ScottK: the KDE 3 release is the normal one, the KDE 4 release is the interesting one [20:45] Riddell: thanks [20:46] which one will be abailable on shipit? [20:46] jjesse_: KDE4 [20:46] intereseting [20:46] Riddell: It'd be nice to be able to get official CDs from shipit for KDE3. I can't really hand out KDE4 CDs to people I'm trying to convert [20:46] this is why I write the minutes... [20:46] agreed ScottK [20:47] ScottK: best order some gutsy CDs then [20:47] * ScottK goes to order more. [20:48] or hand out Ubuntu, it will be LTS and it's got all the marketing/developer power behind it [20:48] noone stops installing KDE into that :) [20:49] (or burn some cds yourself...) [20:49] thanks Riddell :-p [20:49] mhb: ug [20:49] Riddell: ug? what does that mean? I'm not happy about it, but it's true. [20:50] Nightrose: Handing out self-burned CDs doesn't look professional [20:50] it's got all the developers power and with the LTS removing action, it's got all marketing for itself, too [20:50] ScottK: put them in the shipit covers [20:51] yea [20:51] Well I just asked for more. [20:51] mhb: so it doesn't need our help, we should be promoting Kubuntu === jpetso_away is now known as jpetso === Lure_ is now known as Lure [21:21] Riddell: apt-cache show kturtle-kde4 - last line says see KDE3 packages for more info === gryc_ is now known as gryc [21:29] is there something I can help with? :) [21:33] i love ariports [21:35] big ones? or munincipal ones [21:37] alll airports [21:37] was scheduled to leave at 3:00 [21:37] still havent left [21:37] oh.... sarcasm... ;) [21:37] sarcasM? [21:39] well, obviously if you are behind time... you don't love airports. === toma is now known as toma_ [21:44] grin, just frustrated [21:44] chicago o'hare is always delayed [21:44] where's dolphin-kde4 ? [21:45] (in universe?) [21:46] in the new KDE 4.0 packages I mean [21:48] ah, found it [21:49] 4.0 packages are already out? [21:49] jpatrick: fair point but I don't think it's worth fixing this week [21:49] Vorian: do you know how to make packages? [21:49] nosrednaekim: in PPA and hardy [21:50] Riddell: yep, not so well from scratch however [21:50] jpatrick: wow.... bet kubuntu is the first distro to have packages :) [21:51] is it just me, or smb:// does not work properly in kde4? when I copy stuff to XP share it get stalled after several KBs [21:51] Vorian: ask nixternal for an extragear app to package if you want [21:51] Riddell: sounds great :) [21:51] front page of kubuntu meetings shows the date as january 07 [21:51] Riddell: shame most are still in new.. [21:51] Riddell: and thanks :) [21:52] jpatrick: most what? [21:52] bbl [21:52] Riddell: of the kde4 extragears apps we've uploaded [21:52] jpatrick: well we can't let 4.0 packages through until closer to the release day [21:53] ok [21:53] * nosrednaekim thinks thats rather unfair.... ;) [21:54] nosrednaekim: the alternative is we dont get the tars a week early [21:54] yeah... I know.... but i'm just a selfish user... [22:02] kde4 extragear tarballs were all ok ? [22:04] Vorian: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/ktorrent-4.0.0.tar.bz2 if you want to start on one [22:04] Vorian: get the old packages from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/hardy/new/ [22:04] update rules too [22:06] toma_: ask nixternal for that === \sh is now known as \sh_away === apachelogger__ is now known as apachelogger === neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde === kozz_ is now known as kozz