/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/01/07/#ubuntu-artwork.txt

somerville32kwwii, hi02:07
* DanaG lruks.05:50
DanaGer, lurks.05:50
KidProQuoJust looking at the wiki, particularly http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/HardyTheme I'm a wee bit confused06:46
KidProQuois Hardy the *last* of the previous LTS cycle or the *first* in  the new cycle06:47
Madpilotit's a new LTS06:47
MadpilotDapper was the previous (and first) LTS release06:47
KidProQuoon the wiki it is saying to apparently contradictory things..06:49
KidProQuo"Hardy is the last in the line of the current LTS cycle and should therefor fit well with it's brethren."06:50
Madpilotinteresting. the writing on that page is a bit confused, isn't it?06:50
KidProQuoit doesn't really help anyone understand what we actually want06:51
MadpilotKidProQuo, that assumes the art team knows what it actually wants... :|06:52
KidProQuowe all know that's not even remotely true06:53
KidProQuobut we could at least make it *look* like we do06:53
Madpilotfeel free to attempt to force that page to be coherent06:53
BHSPitLappyKidProQuo, the answer really depends on whether you mean ubuntu or kubuntu06:55
KidProQuoyeah, kubuntu isn't LTS this time around is it?06:55
KidProQuodue to the whole KDE 4 thing06:56
BHSPitLappymmhmm06:56
KidProQuoanyway, my current project is attempting to work out a structure for generating potential themes in the future, not so much working on one for Hardy atm07:00
KidProQuoloosely based off the fedora structure07:01
KidProQuoJust looking at the roadmap, does anyone actually think we're going to have enough time to redo a completely new theme before the UI freeze on the 28th of Feb?08:39
BHSPitLappyKidProQuo, it's not so much of a community effort09:58
KidProQuoBHSPitLappy: do you mean *if* it's a community effort?10:00
BHSPitLappyI say what I mean10:00
BHSPitLappya lot of this stuff takes place in-house10:01
BHSPitLappysadly10:01
KidProQuooh, gotcha10:01
KidProQuoI got a bit confused when first read your comment10:03
KidProQuo:-P10:03
troy_swholly10:08
troy_skrist10:08
troy_snot10:08
troy_ssadly10:08
BHSPitLappytroy_s is having a one-line-per-term moment right now, please excuse him10:09
BHSPitLappypoor guy, he's not even stringing a coherent thought together :P10:09
troy_sit10:09
troy_sis10:09
troy_snot10:09
troy_s'sadly'10:09
troy_salthough it is amazing the amount of misinformation that gets spread around.10:10
BHSPitLappyI10:10
BHSPitLappyam10:10
BHSPitLappygonna10:10
BHSPitLappybed :P10:10
troy_sditto10:10
KidProQuotroy_s, you might be a good person to clarify a question I had earlier10:12
troy_sKidProQuo: Yikes... go fast.10:12
troy_sKidProQuo: But I doubt I can be of any real use in any capacity involving a brain.10:12
KidProQuore: the page at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/HardyTheme10:12
KidProQuoit appears to be saying two contradictory things.10:13
troy_sno real shocker there10:13
KidProQuothat hardy should look similar to gutsy, feisty etc as it is the last in that LTS cycle10:14
KidProQuoand that it is the first in the next LTS cycle, therefore it is the time to redefine the general look for the next few releases10:15
troy_swholly jeeesuz christ10:15
troy_scan't people THUMBNAIL their crap?10:15
troy_sWow that page is an utter homage to complete wastes of time.10:15
KidProQuoyeah10:15
troy_sKidProQuo: My money is on nothing anywhere.10:15
KidProQuotroy_s: ok, thanks anyway10:16
KidProQuo:)10:16
troy_sKidProQuo: I would be surprised if anything happened.  If Mahurin or Picasso drove over Shuttleworth in an automobile accident, I doubt things would change.10:16
KidProQuolol, fair enough10:17
troy_sKidProQuo: Also, 68 pages of HTML wiki blather isn't much better.10:17
troy_sKidProQuo: In fact, if I step back and analyze the thirty seven pounds of email rubbish spewed in the form of 'knowledge bestowed to the masses', the ninety eight metric tonnes of wiki chatter I have tried to follow, the10:18
KidProQuotroy_s: I have been looking at the fedora processes for artwork and they seem sooo much clearer and more helpful than what we currently have10:19
troy_sKidProQuo: Make no mistake, Fedora _was_ it.10:19
troy_sKidProQuo: Fedora 8 is no better than we are.  SUSE, Fedora, and Ubuntu are pure rubbish.10:19
troy_sFedora _had_ a talented individual leading the way, and now they are back to tepid, swirly, monochromatic-branding-genius-thinking, devoid of concept, and absolutely tripey rubbish.10:20
troy_sKidProQuo: Do you read the mailing list?10:20
KidProQuotroy_s: yeah, i've been *enjoying* that privilege for the last few months10:21
troy_sKidProQuo: It's great isn't it?10:21
KidProQuoa few good ideas come along every so often10:22
troy_sKidProQuo: Especially when someone decides to bestow such wonderful wisdom on the illiterate and uneducated serfs on the list.10:22
troy_sKidProQuo: Good ideas are a dime a dozen.10:22
KidProQuobut they are quickly forgotten and we're back to "i found this mockup on the net"10:22
troy_sKidProQuo: Worse, as you can probably see from evaluating the basics, the general audience of the list could do better simply by sitting down and quaffing back a dozen simple basic books on art and design.10:22
troy_syep10:23
troy_sKidProQuo: I can only say it so much...10:23
troy_sKidProQuo: But really, we aren't even at a level to discuss the basics.10:23
KidProQuotroy_s: have you got any experience writing/modding gtk engines?10:23
troy_sKidProQuo: Yes.  Its tedious.10:23
troy_sKidProQuo: The engine writing is rather not that important as getting things to where they would need to be to write an engine.10:24
troy_sKidProQuo: If you want to mod, use the pixmap engine and get things into ship shape.10:24
KidProQuoI have a concept but i need to do more looking into the abilities of GTK to see if it's even possible10:25
troy_sKidProQuo: It's pretty easy to evaluate that sort of thing.10:30
troy_sKidProQuo: Of course, Ubuntu with its pursuit of all things that someone somewhere thinks is a 'good thing' has painted itself into a design nightmare.10:30
troy_sKidProQuo: For example, it is now impossible to deliver a 'design' for Ubuntu as you have GL acceleration enabled on some desktops and not in others.10:31
troy_sKidProQuo: Rather like trying to shoot a photo and accommodate say, sixteen different aspect ratios (can't be done).10:31
troy_sKidProQuo: You can play 'lowest common denominator' when it comes to that -- but even then it is almost impossible to find a resolution that is suitable.10:32
troy_sKidProQuo: And unfortunately, it comes down to destination.  That is a tricky beast.10:32
troy_sanyways,10:32
KidProQuolol10:32
troy_soff for sleep before i fall into a jaded rant of hate.10:33
KidProQuofair enough.10:33
KidProQuoI should probably crash too.10:33
troy_snight.10:33
KidProQuosee ya10:33
lapohi13:38
kwwiihi lapo13:45
Borishi18:14
KidProQuoleave20:13
troy_shttp://www.uxmatters.com/MT/archives/000257.php20:28
troy_sFrom the article, a final sign that the mythic 'usability absolutism' might be having its tide turned:20:28
troy_sEmphasizing More Than Usability20:29
troy_sThe concept of engagement can remind us that we are creating user experiences, which involve much more than mere usability. For example, it is critical for a user to be able to find products on an ecommerce Web site. However, once the user finds the products, it is equally important that the Web site offer compelling information, imagery, and more to support product research and influence product purchases.20:29
kwwiitroy_s: nice article21:24
troy_skwwii: Relevant to our little circle that throws out 'usability' every 2nd sentence.21:25
kwwiitroy_s: yeah, exactly21:25
kwwiieven usability people will say that usability is a quality and not measurable21:26
kwwiiwell, good usability people will say that21:26
troy_skwwii: It's a little mired in, yet again, the 'WHO'.21:26
kwwiitotally21:26
troy_skwwii: Ask TheMuso what 'usability' means to him.  It is quite different than what some dork posts on the list stating 'first things must be usable'.21:27
troy_skwwii: It is frustrating and a completely egocentric myth.21:27
kwwiiit is a simple word to pull out of your pocket when you really do not exactly know what else to say21:28
kwwiiso now my nick no longer means kenneth wesley wimer II21:28
troy_sit sure is.21:28
troy_s?21:29
kwwiinow it means ken wimer wii21:29
troy_sLOL21:29
kwwiigot my kid a wii for christmas21:29
kwwiiI gotta admit that is one heck of a good time21:29
troy_sgreat.  don't say that too loud or some 18 year old guy will grab you by your neck and start swinging you around.21:29
troy_sit is amazing.21:29
troy_sbowling!21:29
kwwiiit is really a totally different way of looking at gaming21:29
troy_sNintendo has also been quite amazing in terms of their presence and design from the dark ages.21:29
kwwiiglad I did not buy the ps3 now21:29
troy_skwwii: It cracks me up that the press says things like 'Format wars over' -- yeah they have been for about two years.  The format is called xVID and the content is online.21:30
kwwiinow if only xVID was free of patent controversy crap talk21:31
troy_sindeed.  however, that patent issue is why theora can't implement the same breakdown alg.21:32
kwwiifrom what they say they are going to rework the theora stuff from the ground up21:32
kwwiimaybe something will come from that21:33
troy_shard to say.  the better thing is to perhaps chase after the mpeg patent that encumbers mp4 and see if it can get cleared up.21:33
troy_sthe content is already rather ubiquitous.21:33
kwwiitrue but I think you have a lot of companies to deal with in cleaing mpeg4 issues up21:35
troy_skwwii: One isn't it?  It is simply the patent issue on the low level alg.21:35
andreasn_"got my kid a wii for christmas" yeah, keep telling yourself you got it for him :)21:36
troy_skwwii: The rest is rather irrelevant.  It seems that the quality is acceptable to the masses, the format is readily known and open, etc.21:36
andreasn_;)21:36
kwwiiandreasn_: I also bought my wife a mario game (which she kicked me off golf to play)21:36
andreasn_the galaxy one?21:36
kwwiitroy_s: too bad you're not a lawyer :-)21:36
andreasn_I'm totally getting that21:36
troy_skwwii: No thanks.  Wife is doing that.21:37
kwwiiandreasn_: no the simple golf in wii sports21:37
troy_sBowling!21:37
kwwiibowling does rock21:37
troy_skwwii: That and watching 4 30somethings floundering with tennis from a couch is rather hilarious.21:38
troy_sits like some strange throwback to a 1960s Twister commercial.21:38
kwwiiand I already broke my fist glass by driving the hell out of it with the controller playing golf21:38
kwwiihehe, I boxed and ended up panting and sweating21:39
troy_s(yikes... a fist glass sounds like something out of a shady video rental store)21:39
troy_sok.  out for keanu time... yay.21:39
kwwiiactually, I almost perfectly broke the top of a wine glass off the stem21:39
kwwiiso now it is a candle holder glass thingy21:39
kwwiihave fun21:40
troy_sreturning to work after a lovely xmas is... gross.21:40
troy_slol21:40
kwwiiI know the feeling21:40
troy_syeah have fun reading the mail.21:40
troy_sits a mire.21:41
kwwiiI know now that I am not going to comment on a lot of it21:41
troy_syou know a full cycle has passed when people start promoting fecking colour psychology again.21:41
kwwiiwe can just discuss it at the meeting21:41
kwwiilol21:41
troy_swhat next?  subliminal accents?21:42
troy_swoo!21:42
troy_smaybe some gemstone healing that comes in your Ubuntu cd.21:42
kwwii:-)21:42
kwwiijust a little brown stone which says "world peace now"21:43
kwwiior a real piece of hardened elephant poop to explain the color scheme21:43
troy_snice.21:44
troy_swe could even varnish it so that Shuttleworth thinks it is contemporary.21:44

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