[00:37] <kwwii> w00t!!!! I got through all the emails
[00:37] <kwwii> and now, time for sleep, bb in 8-10 hours
[07:40] <KidProQuo> I just re-found this slideshow from a while ago :  http://www.slideshare.net/elliotjaystocks/fowd-november-2007
[07:40] <KidProQuo> It's almost like they're talking about OSS theme designers at some points. :-P
[11:17] <Tm_T> kwwii: YAY!
[11:29] <lapo> hi
[11:45] <KidProQuo> lapo: hello
[12:01] <troy_s> KidProQuo: That was a refreshing link.  Thanks for sharing.
[12:02] <troy_s> KidProQuo: If only the essence of what was said there was embraced by the masses.
[12:03] <KidProQuo> It's a pity the dialog wasn't included.
[12:03] <KidProQuo> apparently it had a lot more interesting points
[12:04] <KidProQuo> dialogue^
[12:04] <troy_s> KidProQuo:  I just purchased a brand new design book to add to my library
[12:04] <troy_s> KidProQuo: and there is an interesting chapter summing up much of what i have learned over the course of a couple of decades
[12:05] <KidProQuo> true, what book?
[12:05] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Largely that design and art are about the furthest thing from 'isolated' as one can get.  In fact, they are quite amazing reflections of context - cultural, societal - trend, and other like things.
[12:05] <troy_s> I would need to fish for the title.. hold on... it's a brilliant looking book though.
[12:06] <troy_s> KidProQuo: "What is Graphic Design" Quentin Newark
[12:06] <KidProQuo> I'll keep a look out for it
[12:06] <troy_s> Here is the back cover:
[12:07] <troy_s> Design does not take place in a vacuum.  This book starts by exploring all of the issues that shape design,
[12:07] <troy_s> including economics, ethics, technology, theory, and developments in the other arts.
[12:07] <troy_s> It looks at how design has evolved over the centuries - from its origins in medieval Germany to today, including areas such as corporate branding, magazines, television titles, and websites.
[12:08] <KidProQuo> sounds interesting
[12:08] <troy_s> It is quite a slick book with a lot of what I value in it -- contextual relationships to history, etc.
[12:09] <KidProQuo> speaking of context, I was doing a bit of thinking about brown today...
[12:09] <troy_s> KidProQuo: uh oh.
[12:09] <troy_s> KidProQuo: The scary thing is that at no other point during my attempted defense of brown has brown been more viable than it is in today's market.
[12:10] <KidProQuo> so much of the emotional response to brown is to do with the texture
[12:10] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Consider Nike, Adidas, Quicksilver, Burton, Oakley, and a few other minor players such as them are embracing brown on a huge level.
[12:10] <KidProQuo> not the actual colour itself
[12:10] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Bah. The response to brown is just a stupid fucking poorly rendered version of it.
[12:11] <KidProQuo> it is a colour which is very hard to get right on it's own
[12:11] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Body Shop?  Yep... brand new brilliant campaign with a brown base.  Starbucks (one of my fave and repeatedly amazing design bastions) released a spring campaign with White base and brown, accented with blue.  Color alone isn't much however.  Those companies both have solid driving conception behind them.
[12:12] <KidProQuo> so much depends on which colours you pair it with, and in what proportions you use them in
[12:14] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Yes.  That _should_ be a no brainer.  Also, don't forget the fact that the hitch-pin is the driving concept.
[12:14] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Take brown and wrap it up like vista and it doesn't work very well at all (as is clearly illustrated via Gutsy)
[12:14] <troy_s> KidProQuo: But alone, brown is as useless as blue or green or red.
[12:15] <troy_s> KidProQuo: It is all the same.  A palette is nothing more than a means to an end.
[12:15] <troy_s> KidProQuo: If you are heading toward a Victorian elegance, your muted palette will help to get you there.
[12:15] <troy_s> KidProQuo: A 'nearly smell the fruit' freshness?  The more vivid palette of grown produce won't hurt you.
[12:15] <troy_s> etc
[12:16] <troy_s> KidProQuo: All of that sort of talk _should_ be a no brainer.  Alas, it is apparently not.
[12:16] <KidProQuo> yeah, _should_
[12:17] <KidProQuo> I've decided to stop using a computer for any mockups / ideas for Hardy +1 for the next few months
[12:17] <KidProQuo> back to the old paper and watercolours
[12:19] <KidProQuo> my logic being, if a design can't hold up without being super polished in inkscape / gimp it probably needs to be rethought
[12:23] <KidProQuo> anyway, it's 1:30 am here and I have work in the morning.
[12:23] <KidProQuo> Goodnight
[12:37] <Toma-> I hope inkscape and gimp merge one day
[12:55] <andreasn> Toma-: oh?
[12:57] <troy_s> Toma-: I wish one of them would get on the nodal design path.  Layers is just wayyyyy too limiting and clunky.
[12:57] <Toma-> well, gimp doesnt really do SVG afaik
[12:57] <Toma-> and inkscape has limited tools and kind of laggy
[12:57] <troy_s> Toma-: Hrm... svn?
[12:58] <troy_s> Toma-: It has pretty good response time, mind you - if you get into complicated bits with blurs it can take time.
[12:58] <Toma-> yeh thats what i mean
[13:00] <andreasn> I found it pretty neat that you can cut something from gimp now and paste into inkscape
[13:01] <Toma-> :O
[13:12] <andreasn> but merging them sounds a bit drastic (and technically quite hard :) ), as one is a illustration app and the other a photo editor
[13:14] <troy_s> andreasn: Although technically, Inkscape isn't that far away from doing much of what Gimp can do and more... especially for photos at some point.
[13:15] <andreasn> hm, probably
[13:16] <troy_s> Now _that_ is some amazing design.
[13:16] <troy_s> http://books.google.com/books?id=ZA2jzYuN93wC&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=esterson+reportage&source=web&ots=K9hcC5o7hq&sig=GJqYXMqeWT1qNGyPbeDL4WqUi00
[13:16] <troy_s> brilliant stuff.
[13:18] <troy_s> http://www.reportage.org/PrintEdition2/KhmerRouge/PagesKhmerRouge/KhmerRouge02.html
[13:19] <Toma-> http://members.iinet.net.au/~haste/anihug.gif
[13:19] <Toma-> gimp animation is loads of fun :)
[13:20] <Toma-> wish inkscape could do animation
[13:20] <troy_s> loses something not being in a printed form in the magazine
[13:20] <troy_s> Toma-: It's coming
[13:20] <troy_s> Toma-: in the meantime, upgrade to a much closer to pro app -- Blender.
[13:20] <Toma-> but im not a pro
[13:20] <Toma-> and blenders UI scares the hell out of me
[13:21] <troy_s> Toma-: Lol.  It is a very very very good tool.
[13:22] <troy_s> Toma-: You will pick it up fast... just create your own layout.
[13:22] <Toma-> i always thought it was more for 3d work?
[13:22] <troy_s> Toma-: Not really.  It is good for animation, non linear editing, nodal compositing.
[13:23] <troy_s> etc.
[13:23] <troy_s> Toma-: It does just about everything.
[13:23] <Toma-> can it make me a coffee?
[13:23] <troy_s> Toma-: And in fact, it does them far better than Gimp etc.  It has support already in place for greater than 8bpc colour depths.
[13:23] <troy_s> Toma-: It could probably make you an image of coffee yes... ;)
[13:23] <Toma-> cool :)
[13:23] <troy_s> Toma-: But seriously, try taking some images and compositing them in blender.
[13:24] <troy_s> Toma-: The nodal compositor is quite incredible.  Close to Nuke's, minus about 50% of the functionality.
[13:24] <Toma-> Ok ill give it a spin
[13:24] <troy_s> (although actually far slicker than Nuke's nodal interface.)
[13:24] <Toma-> I could make a pseudo 3d interface for e17 aswell :>
[19:55] <thorwil> i'd like some critical eyes on http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/memaker_face_08.jpg
[19:55] <thorwil> vector work for memaker
[19:56]  * thorwil hands special invitation to troy_s ;)
[20:34] <kwwii> hrm, who was the guy who knows so much about the usplash?
[20:35] <_MMA_> tonic-pushcart
[20:38] <kwwii> thanks man
[20:38] <_MMA_> \m/
[20:39] <_MMA_> I know he was on a long holiday. I think he's supposed to pop up in a week or so.
[20:44] <kwwii> cool
[20:46] <kwwii> dude, this sylvain marc guy is getting kinda annoying, sending me emails again and again in french although I do not speak it (and he knows that), posting two word emails as responses on the list and now saying we should change the time of the meeting so that it is better for him
[20:46] <_MMA_> lol. I just saw.
[20:47] <thorwil> kwwii: ehm, /dev/null him? after 1 warning if you want to be nice?
[20:48] <_MMA_> Not much you can do about the list but he should stop sending personal emails.
[23:14] <troy_s> posting two word emails as responses on the list
[23:15] <troy_s> _that_ drives my ass nuts -- take the time to edit the bloody quotes and get down to the message part that is pertinent.
[23:15] <troy_s> Even worse are the folks who post the entire 16pages of comments and put two words at the bottom.
[23:18] <JustinJoseph> Hi Troy
[23:18] <JustinJoseph> what is this chat I am in? :)
[23:20] <_MMA_> yep
[23:20] <JustinJoseph> So I am in the "yep" chatroom ?
[23:20] <JustinJoseph> :)
[23:21] <_MMA_> troy_s: Yep.
[23:21] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: The chat is Ubuntu Artwork.
[23:21] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: Should be in your title.
[23:21] <JustinJoseph> Yea, but what is it about?
[23:22] <JustinJoseph> What is Unbuntu Artwork? :)
[23:22] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: Not much.  Occasionally when certain combinations of minds show up, discussions take place.
[23:22] <_MMA_> wth? How would one come here without knowing what it was?
[23:22] <JustinJoseph> Channel List
[23:22] <JustinJoseph> :)
[23:22] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: Ubuntu = Ubuntu, Artwork = Artwork.
[23:23] <JustinJoseph> So it's Artwork being created for a Unix Based Operating System?
[23:23]  * _MMA_ remembers having this chat with another about 4 moths ago.
[23:23] <JustinJoseph> Was it me? :)
[23:23] <JustinJoseph> I have the tendency to just channel surf from time to time
[23:23] <JustinJoseph> to see what's out there :)
[23:23] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: Uh.  If you flip through your channel list as you would a TV, you will be sorely disappointed with this one.
[23:24] <JustinJoseph> lol troy
[23:24] <JustinJoseph> no ppv?
[23:24] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: If you were looking for the 'disgruntled-jaded-bitter-channel' you may have found what you are looking for.
[23:24] <JustinJoseph> ah
[23:24] <JustinJoseph> No I am looking for artists
[23:24] <_MMA_> No. disgruntled-jaded-bitter-guy=Troy
[23:24] <JustinJoseph> people who are artistically talented
[23:24] <JustinJoseph> ;)
[23:25] <_MMA_> JustinJoseph: No. This isnt a general channel like that.
[23:25] <troy_s> _MMA_: Put your brakes on.  You fell into that category a good six to eight months ago fecker.  By your own admission.
[23:25] <_MMA_>  Everyone does for a min. I dont have a rep for it. ;)
[23:26] <JustinJoseph> Ah, well what do you all do?
[23:26] <JustinJoseph> if you're not artists :p
[23:26] <_MMA_> Oh Im not touching that one. Troy's answer will be funnier.
[23:27] <Toma-> lol
[23:27] <JustinJoseph> So this is kind of like a hangout
[23:27] <JustinJoseph> to do nothing
[23:27] <JustinJoseph> and say a word or two every now and again
[23:27] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: We do a lot of worrying about global universal truths and usability.
[23:27] <JustinJoseph> ah
[23:27] <JustinJoseph> Like George Bush
[23:27] <JustinJoseph> Americas President?
[23:27] <JustinJoseph> :)
[23:28] <JustinJoseph> or like programming (global code)
[23:28] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: At some point, through a repetition of submitting things to a mailing list, we will - we believe - achieve a utopian design pattern that will work for everyone -- our target audience is Ubuntu users noob to pro.
[23:28] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: But we prefer to just say 'everyone, everywhere, all the time'.
[23:28] <JustinJoseph> Is it a Unix operating system?
[23:28] <_MMA_> No. Linux.
[23:28] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: No.  Unix is a trademark.
[23:29] <troy_s> JustinJoseph: It is considered *nixlike.
[23:29] <_MMA_> GNU/Linux
[23:30]  * troy_s off to set.
[23:31] <BHSPitLappy> how can a person be on freenode and not know all about linux already
[23:32] <JustinJoseph> ah
[23:32] <JustinJoseph> Well I own a game studio
[23:32] <JustinJoseph> and our game engine we're building works on linux as well as all the more popular :)
[23:32] <_MMA_> Yep. It was you.
[23:32] <BHSPitLappy> good
[23:32] <JustinJoseph> but I'm business level headed
[23:32] <JustinJoseph> not technically savvy
[23:32] <JustinJoseph> ;)
[23:33] <BHSPitLappy> link?
[23:33] <JustinJoseph> www.nemesisstudios.com
[23:34] <_MMA_> Sept 26 2007. (10:31:09 AM) JustinJoseph [n=jj@pool-71-182-209-154.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] entered the room.
[23:34] <_MMA_> 10:38:24 AM) JustinJoseph: so what is this?
[23:34] <_MMA_> (10:38:27 AM) JustinJoseph: Abuntu?
[23:34] <_MMA_> (10:38:49 AM) bersace: JustinJoseph: hi
[23:34] <_MMA_> (10:38:51 AM) JustinJoseph: hi
[23:34] <_MMA_> (10:38:57 AM) bersace: what are you talking about ?
[23:34] <_MMA_> (10:39:04 AM) JustinJoseph: what is Abuntu?
[23:34] <_MMA_> Exact same questions. Weird.
[23:35] <troseph> rofl
[23:35] <troseph> I come back from lunch to Abuntu
[23:36] <_MMA_> lol. Even down to my own responses. hehehe
[23:36] <troseph> haha
[23:36] <JustinJoseph> hah
[23:36] <JustinJoseph> I guess it was me
[23:36] <troseph> that's pretty funny.
[23:36] <JustinJoseph>  :)
[23:37] <BHSPitLappy> there's too many -osephs in this room
[23:37] <BHSPitLappy> one of you must go
[23:37] <_MMA_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51273
[23:37] <troseph> Nemesis Studios should develop for Ubuntu. :P Not just feed the M$ beast.
[23:37] <JustinJoseph> well
[23:37] <JustinJoseph> we're not feeding the M beast totally
[23:37] <BHSPitLappy> he said they do linux clients
[23:38] <troseph> my bad. I skimmed the site.
[23:40] <BHSPitLappy> you should make the windows versions crippled somehow :P
[23:40] <JustinJoseph> we're developing for MAC, PC, Linux and OpenGL
[23:40] <JustinJoseph> lol
[23:40] <BHSPitLappy> my ipod supports opengl
[23:40] <JustinJoseph> nice
[23:40] <JustinJoseph> I'm not a fan of the Ipod
[23:43] <troseph> you could develop for it though. AMIRITE?!?
[23:43] <troseph> :P
[23:47] <JustinJoseph> I'm sure
[23:47] <JustinJoseph> we use strict C++
[23:47] <JustinJoseph> w/ Lua Scripting
[23:50] <JustinJoseph> I could show you guys some stuff
[23:51] <JustinJoseph> from our game (but no screenshots)
[23:51] <JustinJoseph> I'm not allowed :p
[23:51] <JustinJoseph> You guys wanna see a few things?
[23:51] <_MMA_> No fun.
[23:54] <troseph> _MMA_: Got the email.
[23:54] <_MMA_> Cool
[23:55] <troseph> I'll get to work on it when I get off work.
[23:55] <JustinJoseph> http://www.goonworld.com/deleteme/
[23:55] <JustinJoseph> here are a few things
[23:56] <JustinJoseph> i just pulled off
[23:56] <JustinJoseph> to show u
[23:56] <troseph> I'm not allowed to work on Ubuntu stuff while at work at Novell. :)
[23:56] <troseph> For obvious reasons. :)
[23:56] <_MMA_> Yeah. Im gonna email the Flickr pick of the Ubuntu Studio sticker on your car to your boss. ;)
[23:57] <_MMA_> *pic
[23:57] <troseph> haha.
[23:57] <troseph> It sits in the front row of the parking lot everyday. :)
[23:58] <_MMA_> ;)
[23:58] <troseph> regarding the statement on that GDM, I am a fan of punk/metal/etc but that type of theming isn't for my computer. :) haha
[23:59] <_MMA_> Ok. It _will_ be done for Hardy+1.
[23:59] <JustinJoseph> you guys look?
[23:59] <troseph> and the black window is not a part of the bg
[23:59] <JustinJoseph> cus im about to pull it
[23:59] <JustinJoseph> lol
[23:59]  * troseph is looking
[23:59] <JustinJoseph> just a few minor things
[23:59] <JustinJoseph> i can't show u anything really, lol
[23:59] <JustinJoseph> just givng you an idea ;)