[00:22] <mebrown> cjwatson, welcome back.
[00:22] <mebrown> evand, cjwatson  We are going to be going with an explicit echo "d-i languagechooser/language-name ..." | debconf-set-selections
[00:23] <mebrown> the main thing that I was concerned about (for my information), was why my offline testing didnt work
[00:24] <mebrown> when I did the debconf-set-selections and ran "oem-config" in an already-installed OS, it never worked. But when I did the exact same script as part of post-install script it worked
[05:40] <twb> cjwatson: I've had problems recently with Gutsy, it seems by default /etc/network/interfaces last line, "iface eth0 inet dhcp" is commented out.  Any idea what's going on?
[05:40] <twb> I vaguely suspect NM because it has caused problems for me on Debian.
[05:41] <twb> (i.e. prejudice)
[09:37] <cjwatson> twb: it's intentionally commented out if (and only if) network-manager is going to be installed, because otherwise they interfere
[10:40] <xivulon> cjwatson re city selector interface in ubiquity, I was looking this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrFz7IxXppU (1m10s)
[10:44] <cjwatson> xivulon: you sure that's the right one? that's 3m20s and is about kwin composite effects
[10:44] <xivulon> yep go to 1min 10 sec
[10:44] <xivulon> it's just the idea of the magnifier, does not need composite to be implemented
[10:45] <xivulon> if you have 2 images of different resolution should be easy to put togethter
[10:45] <cjwatson> ah. somebody with time is welcome to try it :-)
[11:02] <xivulon> once I am in a good shape with wubi i'll give it a go, that should be pygtk correct?
[11:15] <cjwatson> yes
[11:15] <cjwatson> or in the underlying C code
[11:34] <mpt> xivulon, yes, that's kind of like what I suggested at UDS -- when you're outside the map area you see the whole map, but when you're inside the area you're auto-scrolling through a zoomed-in version
[11:38] <xivulon> mpt I'll see if I can implement a sample
[11:39] <mpt> So, if the map area is X pixels wide and Y high
[11:40] <mpt> When you're hovering over (0,0), the area should show a zoomed-in version of the ((0,0), (X/n, Y/n)) part of the map
[11:41] <xivulon> yep
[11:42] <mpt> When you're hovering over (X,Y) (the bottom-right pixel), the area should show a zoomed-in version of the ((X-X/n, Y-Y/n), (X,Y)) part of the map
[11:42] <mpt> etc
[11:42] <mpt> Where n = 2 or thereabouts
[12:12] <twb> cjwatson: on the host in question, NM *was* installed, but nis didn't work at all until I uncommented the configuration in /etc/network/interfaces.
[12:13] <twb> I imagine from the user's report that ypbind just sat there until it timed out and was backgrounded.  Certainly logging in as root to enable /e/n/interfaces took deciseconds.
[12:14] <twb> Perhaps NM simply doesn't work with NIS, or NM is activated after NIS.
[12:15] <cjwatson> it wouldn't surprise me if hardly anyone else has tried NM with NIS
[12:57] <twb> Grumble
[12:58] <soren> Yeah. NIS only really works if you expect to always be connected to the same network. network-manager is made for the exact opposite use case.
[12:59] <twb> ...and yet NM is installed by default
[12:59] <twb> I guess I must have told the users to install NIS by hand.
[12:59] <soren> And nis isn't.
[12:59] <twb> I can tell them to purge nm at the same time
[13:09] <tjaalton> I'm having hard time installing hardy atm. netboot fails with "Couldn't find task {minimal,standard}"
[13:09] <tjaalton> probably known already?
[13:09] <twb> That sounds like a bashism
[13:10] <twb> (Just guessing, really.)
[13:10] <tjaalton> there are two errors, one with "minimal", the other with "standard" :)
[13:10] <twb> Oh, never mind then.
[13:10] <tjaalton> I tried to be clever..
[13:14] <cjwatson> which mirror?
[13:15] <cjwatson> those tasks seem to exist in the master archive
[13:15] <tjaalton> local, I'll update it again..
[13:16] <cjwatson> check for Task: lines in the Packages file
[13:16] <cjwatson> also check syslog to ensure it did actually find your mirror successfully; I could imagine that that error might happen if apt-setup broke somehow
[13:22] <tjaalton> now it fails to find kernel modules :)
[13:22] <tjaalton> but it does use our mirror
[14:17] <tjaalton> so d-i just needs an upload to use -3?
[14:19] <CIA-48> debian-installer: cjwatson * r865 ubuntu/ (10 files in 4 dirs): * Move to 2.6.24-3 kernels.
[14:19] <tjaalton> hehe
[14:19] <CIA-48> debian-installer: cjwatson * r865 ubuntu/ (10 files in 4 dirs): * Move to 2.6.24-3 kernels.
[14:19] <cjwatson> ha, timing
[14:20] <cjwatson> the second one was because CIA said ENOSPC (at the remote end I assume) and I didn't bother checking whether the message had actually made it
[14:24] <CIA-48> debian-installer: cjwatson * r866 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20070308ubuntu25
[15:16] <evand> regarding scrolling a zoomed tzmap, I'm actually working on that functionality now (while I work on more important things), as I have to work with the tzmap to fit ubiquity in 800x600 anyway.
[15:41] <xivulon> evand in the scheme suggested by mpt the map does not pan and there are no scrollbars/buttons, have a look at the video
[15:41] <xivulon> I can send you some cairo/pygtk code in the coming days if you wish
[15:43] <evand> mpt: can you clarify?  Are you talking about the entire map being zoomed in or just a boxed portion, like a magnifying glass?
[15:43] <mpt> xivulon, I'm not sure what you mean by "the map does not pan"
[15:43] <mpt> but I agree it shouldn't have scrollbars/buttons
[15:43] <xivulon> magnifying glass
[15:44] <mpt> but the magnifying glass area being the map area itself
[15:44] <xivulon> while the full world does not move
[15:44] <evand> my plan was to make the map permanently zoomed in, and have the map move as you move toward an edge.  I thought this was in line with what we discussed at UDS, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
[15:44] <evand> to further clarify, there would be no scrollbars
[15:45] <mpt> evand, my suggestion was to have the map zoomed out when you're not mousing over it, and zoomed in when you are
[15:45] <xivulon> I guess I resumed the original mpt proposal after looking at the video
[15:45] <mpt> I probably didn't express myself very well
[15:45] <mpt> I could draw some sketches if it would help :-)
[15:45] <xivulon> evand see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrFz7IxXppU
[15:45] <xivulon> 1min 10 sec
[15:46] <evand> mpt: if you have the time it would be very much appreciated.  We lost some of the notes from that session and I've been working off of memory.
[15:48] <evand> xivulon: I already watched it.  I see what you're saying, but that's fundamentally different from what I thought was the plan.  But I'll wait for mpt's sketch before I assume I know exactly what that was :)
[15:51]  * mpt should have brought his inky pen to the office
[16:12] <mpt> evand, e-mailed
[16:16] <evand> mpt: thanks, that definitely helps!
[16:16] <evand> do you mind if I put this on the specification?
[16:17] <xivulon> I have started a pygtk widget if it is of any help
[16:18] <mpt> evand, that's fine
[16:19] <mebrown> evand, ping.
[16:19] <mebrown> evand, are there any plans to make the preseed file language independent?
[16:22] <evand> mebrown: can you elaborate?  You can preseed when locale is set to something other than English, you just use the English keys in your preseed file.
[16:23] <mebrown> evand, there are several places in the preseed where the string value is equal to what the GUI displays
[16:23] <mebrown> evand, and if you change language those parts of the preseed brak
[16:23] <mebrown> break
[16:23] <evand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyUbiquityUsability has been updated.  Thanks again mpt.
[16:23] <mebrown> specifically partitioning and X
[16:25] <evand> mebrown: Are you sure these are not broken elsewhere?  I was able to preseed partitioner questions when using debian-installer/locale=zh_CN
[16:25] <mebrown> evand, I had a working preseed. Exactly one change to language broke it. (fails at partitioning)
[16:25] <mebrown> I saw something somewhere about them being locale specific
[16:26] <evand> hrmm
[16:26] <mebrown> http://pastebin.com/m758c0d2e
[16:26] <mebrown> the preseed in question
[16:27] <mebrown> when I change locale to zh_CN, partitioning fails (7.10, here)
[16:27] <mebrown> It will be a couple weeks before I can start testing hardy
[16:29] <cjwatson> partman is special, in every sense of the word
[16:29] <evand> haha
[16:29] <cjwatson> but you should be able to work around it by preseeding the Chinese equivalent
[16:29] <cjwatson> which is obviously annoyingly unreliable, but should be a workaround
[16:30] <mebrown> cjwatson, something like a feature request:
[16:30] <mebrown> specify preseed language independent of installer langauge
[16:30] <evand> don't you need to preseed partman-auto/disk, or does it assume you mean the first one it finds?
[16:30] <mebrown> independent of final system locale
[16:30] <cjwatson> mebrown: yes, I am definitely familiar with the issue, it's just complex to fix
[16:30] <cjwatson> it is ONLY the partitioner
[16:31] <cjwatson> and only when you're asking it to partition free space as opposed to the whole disk
[16:31] <mebrown> cjwatson, any way to just call 'gettext' on any of the string values that need localization?
[16:31] <cjwatson> if you're partitioning the whole disk, as Evan says, you use partman-auto/disk which doesn't require i18n
[16:31] <mebrown> cjwatson, now thats funny.
[16:31] <cjwatson> mebrown: the installer doesn't use gettext, and not really
[16:31] <cjwatson> I can try to find you a better workaround
[16:31] <evand> ah, which would explain why it worked for me.
[16:32] <mebrown> cjwatson, I think we discussed this before, but I dont have a bug open: would like to be able to specify partitioning better in preseed.
[16:32] <mebrown> right now, I have an early_script that does the partitioning
[16:32] <mebrown> which is just wonky
[16:32] <mebrown> and: we have had a couple things pop up on our mailing list
[16:32] <cjwatson> the right fix is to make it possible to preseed it as biggest_free (the underlying identifier) rather than as "Guided - use the largest continuous free space"
[16:32] <mebrown> cjwatson, agreed on that part, except:
[16:33] <mebrown> for our factory install, I know that I want to keep /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 and blow away everything else
[16:33] <mebrown> and on the mailing lists, some people want to install to things like LVM or even encrypted lvm
[16:33] <mebrown> and would be nice if they could specify that in the preseed.
[16:34] <cjwatson> right, I'm sorry but it'll be a while before we have that (not enough people are working on the partitioner as yet); it certainly isn't just you asking for that kind of thing :-/
[16:34] <mebrown> cjwatson, well, we have a working solution right now, so it is a feature request wishlist item
[16:34] <mebrown> cjwatson, and it would be nice if the (I count 4) places in the preseed where it is locale-sensitive could be fixed
[16:34] <mebrown> so I can just specify locale in the preseed.
[16:35] <mebrown> and then...
[16:35] <mebrown> fix up firstboot so I dont have to separately specify language/keyboard there.
[16:35] <cjwatson> I see 2 in yours, one of which is unnecessary
[16:35] <mebrown> ?
[16:35] <mebrown> 2 partitioning and 2 xorg
[16:35] <cjwatson> partman-auto/init_automatically_partition (necessary) and partman-auto/choose_recipe (you're just preseeding the default, so why bother?)
[16:36] <cjwatson> are you *sure* those xorg questions are locale-sensitive? that very much surprises me
[16:36] <mebrown> so it should work ok if I remove the choose_recipe? I dont have a test system handy now, will test later.
[16:36] <mebrown> cjwatson, an assumption on my part
[16:37] <mebrown> they *look* similar to the partitioning stuff
[16:37] <cjwatson> they do, but it's the underlying code that matters. partitioning only suffers from this because the underlying code is very very weird and nonstandard.
[16:38] <cjwatson> (because it's trying to solve complex problems and doing stuff that the debconf system wasn't really designed to do)
[16:38] <cjwatson> you can definitely remove partman-auto/choose_recipe
[16:38] <mebrown> ok
[16:39] <cjwatson> on oem-config, yes, though that will happen first. I asked evand to take care of that one.
[16:40] <cjwatson> I left a comment in /lib/partman/lib/base.sh a while back about the problem you're running into
[16:40] <mebrown> just have it come up by default in the system language? (/etc/defaults/locale)
[16:40] <cjwatson>         # TODO: This can be preseeded without having to use translated
[16:40] <cjwatson>         # values (which are often inappropriate for preseeding across many
[16:40] <cjwatson>         # machines due to including e.g. disk capacities) but it's nasty;
[16:40] <cjwatson>         # you have to use runes like
[16:40] <cjwatson>         # "20some_device__________/var/lib/partman/devices/=dev=sda".
[16:40] <cjwatson>         # We could do with an abbreviated syntax.
[16:40] <cjwatson> mebrown: something needs to take care of copying the question in; once that happens it will work
[16:41] <cjwatson> the problem is that nothing copies preseeding across for the benefit of oem-config
[16:41] <mebrown> but, question:
[16:41] <mebrown> I was on an installed, running system
[16:41] <mebrown> and was running oem-config manually to test
[16:41] <mebrown> and when I ran echo ... | debconf-set-selections
[16:41] <mebrown> it had no effect
[16:42] <cjwatson> you said you were preseeding languagechooser/language-name. I really recommend not doing that. The variable exposed for preseeding is debian-installer/locale.
[16:42] <cjwatson> I suspect some slight difference around there was your problem
[16:42] <evand> the suggestion of languagechooser/language-name was my fault
[16:42] <cjwatson> languagechooser/language-name gets set internally by localechooser depending on the exact code path you hit and is not guaranteed to respect preseeding
[16:43] <mebrown> evand, no it wasnt.
[16:43] <evand> it wasn't?
[16:43] <mebrown> evand, I was reading the code and that is what I came up with
[16:43] <mebrown> before you made your suggestion on sat morning, I had been playing around for hours on friday with that variable
[16:43] <evand> ah, fair enough
[16:43] <mebrown> I just never got it to work until your suggestion to do it in post
[16:44] <cjwatson> I agree with doing it in a post-install script for now
[16:44] <cjwatson> but we'll fix the bug that requires that
[16:44] <mebrown> cjwatson, the code already went to the factory, as we were over our deadline. we are using languagechooser/language-name for now.
[16:44] <mebrown> ok
[16:45] <mebrown> cjwatson, so: the final solution to this (implemented for hardy?) is that I can set debian-installer/locale and get everything to Just Work(TM)?
[16:46] <mebrown> Do I need to open up any launchpads on these?
[16:48] <cjwatson> I've filed bug 181291
[16:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 181291 in oem-config "preseeded locale etc. not propagated to oem-config" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181291
[16:49] <cjwatson> and tentatively assigned to evand since he said yesterday that was ok
[16:49] <evand> yup, already working on it
[16:49] <cjwatson> mebrown: though I have not yet tested it, it's my belief that setting debian-installer/locale in a post-install script will work fine even for gutsy. Yes, the intent for hardy is that just setting debian-installer/locale in the preseed file should work without further post-install fiddling.
[16:50] <cjwatson> (regardless of exactly how that is achieved)
[16:50] <mebrown> so: another bug about the localized partitioning to make it complete?
[16:51] <mebrown> thanks for the help. (especially saturday help from evand)
[16:51] <evand> anytime
[16:52] <mebrown> next thing I noticed while working on this:
[16:52] <mebrown> the list of keyboard layouts is not localized.
[16:52] <mebrown> which was great for me testing, but would suck if you *only* speak mandarin
[16:54] <mebrown> and also: I did a *quick* test, so I may have gotten it wrong, but I tried to enter chinese chars in the last screen (and only screen that accepts keyboard input, thankfully) for username and it didnt work.
[16:56] <cjwatson> yes, a bug on partman-base about the general mess that is partman preseeding would be good
[16:57] <cjwatson> keyboard layout localisation is known and indeed is a blocker to Debian switching to the same system
[16:57] <cjwatson> bug 127528
[16:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127528 in console-setup "keyboard layout chooser not localized" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127528
[16:58] <cjwatson> what went wrong with Chinese entry on the username page? was the problem that it didn't have a working input method (my suspicion) or did it let you enter Chinese characters but then break?
[16:59] <mebrown> I could not find a way to even enter chinese chars
[17:00] <mebrown> I dont know chinese, but iirc, <ctrl>-space normally turns into chinese mode
[17:00] <mebrown> and then you can enter gobbledy-gook
[17:01] <mebrown> question: where to enter bugs in partman-base?
[17:01] <mebrown> "partman-base does not use Launchpad as its bug tracker."
[17:02] <cjwatson> /ubuntu/+source/partman-base rather than /partman-base
[17:02] <cjwatson> or start at bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu and enter partman-base as the source package
[17:03] <cjwatson> ctrl-space requires an input method to be active. I strongly suspect that oem-config isn't activating one. (That's a bug, and one I hadn't heard of before now, so yes, please do file it ...)
[17:09] <mebrown> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell/+bug/181296
[17:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 181296 in partman-base "partman preseeding should not require localized strings" [Undecided,New]
[17:09] <Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 181296 in partman-base "partman preseeding should not require localized strings" [Undecided,New]
[21:33] <xivulon> cjwatson, mpt, evand, have done a preliminary widget for the location selector
[21:33] <xivulon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51260/
[21:36] <xivulon> You need the pixmap http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/download/supermario%40portablemario-20071225071604-qg5aa8kt510412xl/world_map960.png-20060222230952-12b3a9101a91fc15/world_map-960.png
[21:36] <xivulon> within the same directory
[21:48] <cjwatson> cool; it's for evand to deal with though :)
[21:59] <evand> heh, indeed and thanks.  I'll take a look at it after I finish up an email to ubuntu-devel-discuss.
[22:10] <xivulon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51266/
[22:10] <xivulon> added click event
[22:11] <xivulon> evand, you owe me a beer then
[22:11] <xivulon> I'll settle if you merge in the wubi tagged bugs though ;)
[22:20] <xivulon> draw_map is a sink of resource (don't think there is a need to re-render the background at each refresh) if that is optimized responsiveness will improve
[22:26] <xivulon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51267/
[22:26] <xivulon> last
[23:58] <xivulon> evand, cjwaton have moved the map widget code to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/zoom-map-widget
[23:58] <xivulon> cjwatson