[14:59] <zul> @schedule montreal
[14:59] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 09 Jan 15:00: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 09:00: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 07:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 07:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 09:00: Desktop Team Development | 18 Jan 07:00: MOTU
[15:00] <zul> @schedule now
[15:03] <soren> @now
[15:03] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: January 08 2008, 15:03:08 - Next meeting: Edubuntu meeting in 1 day
[15:03] <soren> zul: ^^ That's how you do it.
[15:03] <zul> yeah i wasnt paying attention
[15:58] <mathiaz> Hi everyone !
[15:58] <sommer> hello
[15:58] <zul> heylo
[15:59]  * jdstrand waves
[15:59] <nijaba> Hello and happy new year
[15:59]  * nealmcb waves
[15:59]  * nealmcb is having too much fun with his olpc :-)
[15:59]  * soren wanders in
[16:00]  * dantalizin1 looks up from his desk
[16:00] <jdstrand> nealmcb: I'm supposed to be getting one of those any day now
[16:01]  * sommer has one as well... very cool item
[16:01] <nealmcb> jdstrand: mine came 4 days before the mail that said it was shipping....
[16:01] <sommer> nealmcb: do you have ubuntu on it yet?
[16:01] <mathiaz> all right - let's get started then.
[16:01] <nealmcb> and I've now learned a bit of git and submitted my first patch
[16:01] <zul> i wanna an eepc
[16:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:01. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <mathiaz> Welcome to the first ubuntu server team meeting of 2008 ! :)
[16:02] <nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:03] <mathiaz> This is your 13th meeting...
[16:03] <mathiaz> So there isn't much on the agenda  - anyone wants to add something before we go through it ?
[16:03] <zul> nope
[16:04] <nealmcb> mathiaz: I guess an update on the postgrey bug
[16:04] <mathiaz> nealmcb: bug number ?
[16:04] <nealmcb> I'll get it
[16:05] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Update on postgrey bug
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Update on postgrey bug
[16:06] <nealmcb> mathiaz: this is the one that you escalated a month or so ago, last I recall it was still in proposed
[16:06] <nealmcb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgrey/+bug/135038
[16:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135038 in db4.4 "postgrey fails regularly : "fatal: Can't call method "txn_commit" on an undefined value at /usr/sbin/postgrey line 223." (dup-of: 153996)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [High,Fix committed]
[16:07] <nealmcb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/db4.4/+bug/153996
[16:08] <mathiaz> So I think it's just that the archive admins have been busy
[16:08] <nealmcb> I know we don't like to use the meeting for bugs, so we can move on, but it was on my mind - surprising it hasn't been included yet
[16:08] <nealmcb> yeah - I understand busy :-)
[16:09] <mathiaz> I'll ask pitti about it.
[16:09] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will ask pitti about the state of bug 153996
[16:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will ask pitti about the state of bug 153996
[16:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153996
[16:09] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:10] <mathiaz> Previous meeting log:
[16:10] <mathiaz> http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071218_1600.html
[16:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071218_1600.html
[16:10] <mathiaz> sommer: I've seen you've filed a bug about apache ssl.
[16:11] <sommer> yep... I'm not sure how good it is, but I thought I'd take a crack at it
[16:11] <mathiaz> sommer: there are a couple of other bugs related to this.
[16:11] <mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/113099
[16:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 113099 in apache2 "Out of the box SSL config should be made available for Apache." [Wishlist,Triaged]
[16:11] <mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/77675
[16:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 77675 in apache2 "apache2-ssl-certificate has gone missing since feisty" [Wishlist,Triaged]
[16:12] <mathiaz> sommer: did you get in touch with the debian maintainer ?
[16:12] <sommer> mathiaz: nope, I sort of just started patching :)
[16:12] <sommer> I can do that though
[16:12] <mathiaz> sommer: this issue has also been raised there IIRC, if we could agree on a solution for both ubuntu and debian it would be great.
[16:13] <mathiaz> sommer: the main issue is that debian doesn't have a default way to handle ssl certificates.
[16:13] <mathiaz> this is why some patches that ubuntu added to enable ssl support OOTB are not accepted by debian
[16:14] <sommer> mathiaz: gotcha... is there a way to get ssl-cert included into debian
[16:14] <mathiaz> (eg: dovecot)
[16:14] <mathiaz> but this depends a lot on the maintainers.
[16:14] <mathiaz> sommer: it is - but there isn't an official policy that says that ssl-cert should be the default way to handle ssl certs in debian.
[16:15] <sommer> mathiaz: ah, I see
[16:15] <mathiaz> debian hasn't settled on the default way to handle ssl certs.
[16:15] <mathiaz> so maintainers can be reluctant to enable ssl OOTB because of this.
[16:16] <sommer> is the issue still being debated, or is it not a very high priority?
[16:16] <mathiaz> sommer: I don't know.
[16:16] <nealmcb> sommer: does your patch end up giving a self-signed cert by default or something?
[16:16] <mathiaz> sommer: I'd get in touch first with the apache maintainer to see what they think about your solution.
[16:17] <sommer> mathiaz: it uses the snakeoil key and cert from ssl-cert package
[16:17] <mathiaz> sommer: I think that's a good solution - but only for ubuntu.
[16:17] <sommer> or nealmcb rather
[16:17] <nealmcb> I haven't looked recently at that - so is it just a cert for the current fqdn of the machine or something?
[16:17] <sommer> mathiaz: sure I'll contact them
[16:18] <mathiaz> sommer: so it may be worth discussing with debian maintainers the other configuration options and the way to do it, without forcing them to use ssl-cert.
[16:18] <nealmcb> or does it ask questions etc?
[16:18] <sommer> nealmcb: I beleive it's generated from the hostname
[16:18] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer will contact debian apache maintainer wrt default ssl configuration.
[16:18] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer will contact debian apache maintainer wrt default ssl configuration.
[16:19] <mathiaz> soren, nijaba: what's the state of the JeOS tutorial ?
[16:19] <nijaba> mathiaz: it is still online
[16:20] <nijaba> as the artile has not been published yet AFAIK
[16:20] <sommer> it's also been "translated" into DocBook :)
[16:21] <mathiaz> sommer: is there any plan to include it in the server guide ?
[16:21] <mathiaz> sommer: or make a JeOS guide ?
[16:22] <nealmcb> I'm wondering if the jeos page might be made a more general, short into with link to the article, and the article text might come back as a subpage tutorial when it is old enough
[16:22] <nijaba> mathiaz: I would not be happy to have a separate JeOs guide
[16:22] <nijaba> nealmcb: good idea, but it might be redundant with what we have on u.c
[16:22] <mathiaz> nijaba, sommer: so what's the purpose of using DocBook then ?
[16:22] <nealmcb> *short intro*
[16:23] <nijaba> mathiaz: to be able to ubdate it while iti is not published on the wiki anymore
[16:23] <sommer> mathiaz: I think it was to "save" it into bzr
[16:23] <sommer> I haven't actually commited it yet though
[16:24] <mathiaz> hum.. ok.
[16:24] <sommer> the way it is now is a section in the Server Guide, but that could be changed
[16:24] <nijaba> sommer: I think it is nice as you did it
[16:25] <mathiaz> So any action to take regarding JeOS documentation ?
[16:25] <nealmcb> makes sense to me to have a jeos section there
[16:25] <nijaba> not AFAIK
[16:25] <sommer> nijaba: cool, I'll go ahead and commit it
[16:25] <mathiaz> ACTION: sommer will add the JeOS tutorial as a section to the Server Guide.
[16:26] <nealmcb> so long as it doesn't quickly go out-of-date, since the server guide is released rarely
[16:26] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer will add the JeOS tutorial as a section to the Server Guide.
[16:26] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer will add the JeOS tutorial as a section to the Server Guide.
[16:26] <nealmcb> (compared to the wiki)
[16:26] <sommer> nealmcb: heh... hopefully it will be updated for each release :-)
[16:26] <mathiaz> Anything else from the last meeting ?
[16:26] <nealmcb> sommer: sure, but we only get one shot per release....
[16:29] <sommer> mathiaz: I think that was pretty much it from the last meeting
[16:30] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
[16:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
[16:30] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:30] <mathiaz> Something to say about Triagging ?
[16:31] <soren> Nope
[16:32] <mathiaz> About Packaging ?
[16:32] <mathiaz> sommer started to work on the ssl configuration for apache.
[16:33] <mathiaz> sommer: could you update the roadmap about it ?
[16:33] <sommer> mathiaz: sure
[16:34] <mathiaz> So Documentation.
[16:34] <mathiaz> How things are going in there ?
[16:35] <sommer> Server Guide is cruisin along
[16:35] <mathiaz> sommer: great !
[16:35] <nealmcb> back on packaging- anyone talked to ebox folks?  Can we get them to come to our next meeting?
[16:35] <mathiaz> sommer: you're doing a great job at documentation ! thanks for your contribution !
[16:35] <sommer> I think most of the large updates have been done, there's probably minor tweeks here and there though
[16:35] <nijaba> yep, sommer is doing a great job.  I still have a bit to review though since last meeting
[16:35] <sommer> mathiaz: welcome
[16:36] <nealmcb> we so constantly get queries about webmin etc - seems like a priority for hardy, and not an easy one
[16:36] <sommer> plus there may be a couple of others helping out in the near future :)
[16:36] <nealmcb> sommer: yeah - great work!
[16:37] <mathiaz> sommer: yes - I've seen a couple messages on ubuntu-doc.
[16:37] <sommer> nealmcb: thanks, and I agree about ebox
[16:37] <mathiaz> nealmcb: what about factoids ?
[16:38] <nealmcb> I think an ebox factoid is top prio :-)
[16:38] <nealmcb> I'll add it
[16:38] <mathiaz> nealmcb: did you add a couple of them to the bot ?
[16:39] <nealmcb> yes - last month as noted there ljl and I added a bunch - he was great
[16:39] <mathiaz> nealmcb: ok. So they should be removed from the roadmap.
[16:40] <nealmcb> well, I proposed and he made them better and added them :-)
[16:40] <nealmcb> yes - should be removed
[16:40] <nealmcb> I'll do that too
[16:40] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nealmcb will update the list of factoids on the Roadmap.
[16:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nealmcb will update the list of factoids on the Roadmap.
[16:41] <mathiaz> Anything else related to Documentation ?
[16:41] <nealmcb> soren: would you like to invite an ebox person to come to the next meeting and give us an update?  or provide a name of who to invite?
[16:42] <soren> nealmcb: I can do that.
[16:42] <sommer> I think that's pretty much it... still need to make some time for the Samba wiki page updates
[16:42] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:43] <mathiaz> Let's move on the Developer section
[16:43] <mathiaz> It's not up to date.
[16:44] <mathiaz> I'll update the section with the plans for Hardy.
[16:44] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will update the developer section.
[16:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will update the developer section.
[16:45] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:46] <nealmcb> [idea] soren will invite an ebox person to come to the next meeting and give us an update
[16:46] <MootBot> IDEA received:  soren will invite an ebox person to come to the next meeting and give us an update
[16:46] <mathiaz> dendrobates asked if the meeting could be moved as he is not able to attend.
[16:46] <mathiaz> one proposal is to move it wednesday at 17:00 UTC
[16:47] <mathiaz> which is one hour later than currently.
[16:47] <mathiaz> another proposal is to move it to Thursday at 16:00 UTC
[16:48] <nealmcb> wed am is ok, but I have a 1600 meeting too
[16:48] <mathiaz> the ubuntu-dev meeting is scheduled for this time every fours week though
[16:48] <nealmcb> thu is worse
[16:48] <sommer> either work for me ;)
[16:48] <jdstrand> either are good for me
[16:48] <mathiaz> another question is if we should have weekly meeting
[16:49] <mathiaz> I think we already talked about that in december
[16:49] <mathiaz> but don't remember the outcome of the discussion
[16:49] <sommer> didn't we have a meeting once a week in dec?
[16:49] <nealmcb> I think it was "yes, weekly"
[16:50] <mathiaz> ok.
[16:50] <sommer> not sure if it was "official", but it worked out okay
[16:50] <nealmcb> and it will work better with mathiaz back in town :-)
[16:51] <mathiaz> another proposal is monday at 16:00 UTC
[16:52]  * sommer likes 16:00 UTC the best, but either work
[16:52] <mathiaz> yeah 16:00 UTC is the best time for both europeans and americans..
[16:52] <nealmcb> mon 1600 works for me
[16:53] <mathiaz> which means that it's very very busy for most of us..
[16:53] <jdstrand> mathiaz: could have multiple meeting rooms...
[16:54] <mathiaz> jdstrand: yeah - but people need to attend the meetings...
[16:54] <nealmcb> jdstrand: and practice thrashing? :-)
[16:54] <jdstrand> :)
[16:55] <nijaba> Mon 16 UTC is conflicting with a appt that dendrobates and I have have with a partner each week...
[16:55] <mathiaz> soren: mon 16:00 UTC ?
[16:55] <mathiaz> nijaba: argh..
[16:55] <mathiaz> so we're running out of time.
[16:56] <mathiaz> I'll try to come up with something sane for next meeting.
[16:56] <mathiaz> for now we don't move it.
[16:56] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will try to figure a new time for the server team meeting.
[16:56] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will try to figure a new time for the server team meeting.
[16:56] <nealmcb> but it would be nice to have dendrobates here....
[16:57] <mathiaz> For now - next week, same place, same time.
[16:57] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I'll discuss this with him.
[16:57] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:57] <mathiaz> nealmcb: and send an email if there is any change before next meeting.
[16:58] <mathiaz> Thanks all for coming.
[16:58] <nijaba> thanks for leading the meeting mathiaz
[16:58] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[16:58] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:58.
[16:58] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, party on all
[16:59] <nijaba> bye