[00:43] <ailean> guys, looking for an opinion on how stable hardy is - is it fine under most circumstances?
[00:45] <Hobbsee> ailean:
[00:45] <Hobbsee> ailean: i'ts not worth it.  dual boot if you like, though
[00:45] <ailean> hi Hobbsee, ltns - how's life?
[00:45] <ailean> yeah, i might do that
[00:46] <antdedyet> anyone have possible information on either a) getting rid of or disabling pulseaudio in potential hardy releases or b) adding jack support to pulseaudio
[00:47] <antdedyet> (without going to the extent of rebuilding the pulseaudio package locally with the jack module)
[00:48] <antdedyet> preferrably, I'd still like access to my raw sound device. :)
[01:06] <Torgoton> Hi. When trying to install the hardy netboot, I'm told there are no kernels to install. How does one proceed?
[01:23] <clever> i cant upgrade http://www.pastebin.ca/848873
[01:31] <yotux> clever:  when I installed I did no upgrade.  I did a fresh install
[01:33] <yotux> I went back to gusty due to some breakage that I could not deal with
[01:33] <yotux> I understand that alpha are bugy and decided to fall back
[02:04] <Rubin> anyone know anything about getting the new intel wifi drivers to work?
[02:04] <Rubin> i used to use ipw3945 but it seems a better thing called iwlwifi has come out from intel?
[02:05] <Rubin> but i load iwl3945 and no eth device
[02:07] <Hobbsee> Rubin: it's been renamed.  see ifconfigi
[02:07] <Hobbsee> -i
[02:07] <Rubin> ifconfig -a shows only lo and eth0 (wired)
[02:08] <Rubin> the weird thing is the module loads..
[02:08] <Hobbsee> no wlan0_rename?
[02:09] <Hobbsee> and do you have the ubuntu modules?
[02:09] <Rubin> you mean more than linux-image-2.6.24?
[02:10] <Adlai> hi, are there plans to include xmonad 0.5 in hardy?
[02:10] <Rubin> is there a file that defines what devices go in what names? i wonder if the old restricted driver is tromping it somehow
[02:11] <Hobbsee> linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24
[02:12] <Rubin> lol. no i guess i'm missing that one
[02:12] <Rubin> weird though, the module is there in /lib/modules/2.6.24...
[02:12]  * Rubin tries installing
[02:12] <Hobbsee> Rubin: the firmware isn't.
[02:12] <Rubin> ahh k
[02:13] <Rubin> brb test time
[02:16] <Rubin> thanks hobbsee that was it
[02:16] <Hobbsee> you're welcome
[02:16] <Hobbsee> make sure you actually have the metapackgaes installed too
[02:17] <Hobbsee> linux-generic
[02:20] <Rubin> yep i do
[02:21] <Rubin> its kinda frankenstien between gutsy and hardy atm, trying to find out if my hardware problems are fixed before fully committing ;)
[02:21] <DanaG> Dang, the past two bugs I've filed have been duplicates of ones I didn't know about, since I couldn't find them using Search.
[02:23] <Rubin> that seems like it always happens to me :/
[02:35] <Hobbsee> DanaG: did you use launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source package> to check?
[02:36] <DanaG> I searched by description of 'batteries' and 'hal', but found nothing.
[02:38] <DanaG> Hmm, gnome-phone-manager tries to connect to the wrong channel on my phone.
[02:39] <DanaG> And /dev/rfcomm0, though set up, gives the app an 'access denied'.
[02:55] <DanaG> !find gnokii-identify
[02:55] <ubotu> Package/file gnokii-identify does not exist in hardy
[02:55] <DanaG> !file gnokii-identify
[02:55] <DanaG> argh.
[02:55] <DanaG> !gnokii-identify
[02:55] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about gnokii-identify - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[02:55] <DanaG> ARGH!  What's the "apt-file search" equivalent?
[03:15] <IdleOne> having an issue here. trying to edit a file in another user account. but when I type sudo nano filename it ask for the user pass, I enter it and then it returns to the prompt. can someone tell me what I am doing wrong?
[03:19] <Hobbsee> IdleOne: use a better text editor
[03:26] <DanaG> Why is gnome-phone-manager using the wrong channel to connect to my phone?
[03:26] <IdleOne> Hobbsee: gksu gedit did the same thing
[03:27] <IdleOne> but I got it sorted
[03:53] <teethdood> PulseAudio has the ability to adjust the volume for each app. How do I do so?
[04:19] <Rubin> anyone had any luck with alsa over bluetooth to stereo headphones?
[05:22] <antdedyet> eh ... no response on my pulseaudio question.
[05:41] <sigma_1234> whens the next alpha of hardy coming out?
[06:00] <sarthor> Hi, vmware problem pasted here, any help http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51424/
[06:03] <sarthor> Hi, vmware problem pasted here, any help http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51424/
[06:06] <sarthor> Hi, vmware problem pasted here, any help http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51424/
[06:30]  * corevette wants alpha 3!
[07:29] <DanaG> 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 17-20: ordinal not in range(128)
[07:29] <DanaG> in exaile.
[07:32] <nanonyme> how is that odd?
[07:33] <nanonyme> ehm, ok. the fact that it's using ascii might indeed be odd...
[07:34] <DanaG> I'm trying to play files that have kanji in the filenames.  Oddly, it starts playing just fine, and keeps playing as long as I don't acknowledge the error dialog.
[07:34] <nanonyme> yups
[07:35]  * nanonyme shrugs not knowing exaile well enough to know if it has unicode support or not
[07:41] <DanaG> Oh, and hitting 'stop' and then 'play' on the keyboard resets to the start of the playlist.
[08:15] <scizzo-> I must say that firefox 3.0 seems to be rendering pages faster and seems also to use a better lookup for the nameserver adresses
[10:34] <Toma-> Im trying to track down the change to the Makefile in linux-ubuntu-modules as to why the rtl8180 and rtl818x drivers were disabled...
[11:07] <dhq> when i configure glibc why do i get this error checking the size of long double... configure: error: cannot compute sizeof (long double), 77
[12:26] <_Shade_> when can i expect hardy alpha 3 announcement? According to a release schedule it's going to be released today
[12:29] <Hobbsee> when it's done
[12:33] <TheInfinity> _Shade_: if you have alpha2 and you update everything you will get alpha3, so no reason to make stress ;)
[12:34] <_Shade_> TheInfinity: no i haven't but i'd like to download a complete iso
[12:35] <muszek> hi... any idea when will a3 be released?
[12:35] <TheInfinity> >Hobbsee: when it's done
[12:35] <Pici> !final
[12:35] <ubotu> If you installed a Alpha/Beta/RC version of Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) and have been keeping it up to date, then you are already running the latest version of Hardy. To make sure, type « sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade » in a console.
[12:36] <TheInfinity> is alphatesting THAT exciting? :p
[12:37] <bazhang> haha only four months to go!
[12:37] <_Shade_> TheInfinity: indeed :) what would you do if there were no beta-testers? :P
[12:37] <TheInfinity> _Shade_: i also test hardy, i would not be here if not, but software needs time :)
[12:37]  * muszek is not running hardy yet, but wants to check if a bug that he suffers from in Gutsy still persists in Hardy... and I guess that when reporting the status on lauchpad, it's better to say "Alpha 3" then "daily from january 9"
[12:38] <TheInfinity> muszek: if its released you can say alpha3
[12:38] <muszek> TheInfinity: that's why I was asking when it's gonna be released :)
[12:38] <muszek> are you guys using hardy as your main desktops?
[12:38] <_Shade_> muszek: i wonder what bug do you mean?
[12:38] <TheInfinity> muszek: am i crazy?!
[12:39] <TheInfinity> <-- uses hardy in VMs
[12:39] <Pici> I am.
[12:39] <scizzo-> I am using it on the main desktop
[12:39] <_Shade_> Pici seems crazy then :PPP
[12:39] <TheInfinity> i need a system which works without so much errors
[12:40] <muszek> _Shade_: two bugs... one with wi-fi dying every now and then (reboot required, unless network manager is swapped with wicd) and the other one is less important - monitor brightness going crazy every  few minutes (there's an easy workaround though)
[12:40] <TheInfinity> because i need my system for work. not that good if you need much time to start working ...
[12:40] <Pici> I have a gutsy server and a desktop that dualboots also, just in case this computer becomes unbootable.
[12:40] <TheInfinity> gutsy server? masochist :p
[12:40] <bazhang> wow
[12:41] <Pici> TheInfinity: It doesnt do much
[12:41] <muszek> heh... I guess I won't be moving yet then :)... I have quite a few apps that need to work flawlessly
[12:41] <Pici> And thats not because its running Gutsy ;P
[12:42]  * TheInfinity tried non-lts-server for some time. never again ...
[12:42] <_Shade_> muszek: i do not use wi-fi so it's not a problem for me. I use a kde version and it suffers of incomplete translation though
[12:44] <_Shade_> muszek: that drives me mad since i am doing my best on launchpad to make it better :P
[12:45] <TheInfinity> .oO((some people need wifi, need xorg, need ... ;) )
[12:45] <muszek> _Shade_: the wi-fi bug is hardware-specific (not all versions of intel's ipw3945) and I doubt that it's very common.  as for translations, I found it to be much easier to just use english... in case you need to google something or ask a question.  but if you're in the translation team yourself, I can see why you might want to use some other language :)
[12:48] <_Shade_> muszek: i'm just collaborating but i'm not an official translator. Although these translations are getting worse release by release.... at least in the apps that i use
[14:26] <WorkingOnWise> on AMD64, is OpenOffice 64 bit?
[14:36] <lunks> Hello, X broke. :)
[14:37] <lunks> As soon as I update Hardy, I'll try running it again.
[14:37] <lunks> Oddly, GDM works fine but won't let me login. startx starts for a while then closes with a backtrace.
[14:53] <lunks> 0: /usr/bin/X11/X(xf86SigHandler+0x7e) [0x80c750e]
[14:54] <lunks> 1: [0xffffe420]
[14:54] <lunks> Any idea on how to debug it?
[14:54] <lunks> brb
[15:08] <IdleOne> got a small issue here. update manager has put a triangle with a ! in it telling me my update information is out of date and when I click on it it checks for updates and tells me my system is up to date. icon is still in the panel telling me the same thing. any ideas?
[15:08] <Hobbsee> IdleOne: got broken packages?
[15:08] <IdleOne> Hobbsee: not that I know of
[15:08] <IdleOne> update manager does not return any broken packages
[15:08] <Hobbsee> no, it wouldn't.  check with apt
[15:09] <IdleOne> will do
[15:09] <Hobbsee> if so, iz known apt bug.
[15:10] <IdleOne> icon just went away
[15:10] <IdleOne> aptitude returns nothing
[15:13] <IdleOne> guess it was just a glitch in the system
[15:13] <IdleOne> ohhh I like the new update icon :)
[15:13] <IdleOne> lol
[15:13] <IdleOne> little things amuse me
[15:14]  * Hobbsee suspects it's transient
[15:14] <IdleOne> Hobbsee: how do i get apport to stop warning me about a application crash that I have reported on already
[15:15]  * Hobbsee shrugs
[15:15]  * Hobbsee thought there was a button there for it
[15:15] <IdleOne> not sure
[15:16] <IdleOne> keeps warning me about seti_enhanced
[15:16] <IdleOne> it is getting annoying
[15:17] <IdleOne> I love my fios 1138kb/s :)
[15:17] <IdleOne> make that 1386
[15:32] <WorkingOnWise> on AMD64, is OpenOffice 64 bit?
[15:33] <IdleOne> WorkingOnWise: should be
[15:34] <WorkingOnWise> IdleOne: any way to verify?
[15:35] <IdleOne> apt-cache policy should tell you
[15:36] <IdleOne> the version
[15:36] <IdleOne> packages.ubuntu.com should have that info also I would think
[15:36] <IdleOne> should /would
[15:36] <WorkingOnWise> ty
[15:37] <ccooke> How broken is Hardy atm?
[15:38] <void^> worksforme
[15:38] <ccooke> (can it survive an hour or two without crashing and burning, is the real question)
[15:38] <ccooke> I usually start testing the new version about 2-3 months before release, so...
[15:39] <bazhang> pretty nice; not really an alpha feel at least here
[15:39] <WorkingOnWise> ccooke. It's rock steady on my laptop. amd64
[15:39] <IdleOne> ccooke: if not for the oops I did this morning I would be at 12 days uptime right now
[15:39] <IdleOne> !worksforme
[15:39] <ubotu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
[15:40] <ccooke> heh. I'm not running amd64 anywhere until there's a working java plugin :-/
[15:40] <bazhang> hehe
[15:40] <WorkingOnWise> i broke my framebuffe just so I'll have something to work around!
[15:41] <WorkingOnWise> why do we call it common when it is so rare?
[15:41] <IdleOne> sense?
[15:41] <IdleOne> because it should be common
[15:41] <IdleOne> but like you said it is rare
[15:41] <ccooke> WorkingOnWise: because everyone has it - they're just very good at *ignoring* it
[15:41] <ccooke> (and also: because everyone knows it, and it is often wrong :-)
[15:42] <WorkingOnWise> ccooke: u sure are an optimist!   :)
[15:42] <ccooke> WorkingOnWise: in this channel... aren't we all?
[15:43] <IdleOne> the term common sense is misuse I believe. comomon sense would imply what is best for the community but is used for what is best for the individual
[15:43] <IdleOne> hmmm maybe it isnt misused
[15:43] <IdleOne> lol
[15:43] <WorkingOnWise> hehe
[15:43] <IdleOne> Ubuntu=common sense
[15:43] <ccooke> no, common sense is what's *commonly thought to be* best
[15:44] <ccooke> The whole wisdom-of-crowds thing. Wikipedia say - and it *is* pretty sensible
[15:44] <WorkingOnWise> ccooke: in that light it fits....it just makes me go hmmm a lot!
[15:44] <bazhang> as opposed to conventional wisdom? dont conflate the two
[15:44] <ccooke> (it's just that when it's not...)
[15:45] <ccooke> bazhang: but common sense draws upon conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom usually takes the simple answer - and common sense is all *about* the simple answer that's obvious, before complicated flights of fancy
[15:46] <IdleOne> ccooke: the simple answer is DONT RUN HARDY! as per /topic
[15:47] <ccooke> IdleOne: yes. and it's a sensible answer!
[15:47] <bazhang> ccooke: that is the olde definition of cw or conventional wisdom
[15:47] <IdleOne> ccooke: that said. go ahead it is fairly stable here make sure you !backup
[15:48] <void^> the icedtea packages are still mostly broken on amd64
[15:48] <ccooke> But more to the point - I'm not exactly new to unstable systems, or even ubuntu+1. I just wanted to check that it's not completely unusable before I switch my main (horrendously-well-backed-up) laptop to it
[15:49] <bazhang> cw would say it is good then
[15:49] <WorkingOnWise> i look at it this way. run xp and know that its problems may never be fixed, or run hardy and know that its problems will be fixed by april 08....
[15:49] <WorkingOnWise> not to tough for me to pick  :)
[15:52] <WorkingOnWise> as for backups....all my stuff is backed up very well. I have a mypackages file that I keep up to date. If I have a problem, I reinstall the base system, have apt-get run that file, and go to bed. wake up in the morning, reboot, restore my data, and bang...back up.
[15:52] <WorkingOnWise> god I live it!
[15:52] <WorkingOnWise> did it once just to see it actually work!
[15:53] <WorkingOnWise> um..live=love
[16:15] <chiefinnovator> what version of Firefox will Hardy Heron have?
[16:16] <TheInfinity> chiefinnovator: 2?
[16:16] <chiefinnovator> Not 3?
[16:16] <TheInfinity> is 3 stable?
[16:16] <chiefinnovator> I can't find a release date for 3
[16:16] <chiefinnovator> anyone know?
[16:16] <TheInfinity> you can install 3 if you want
[16:16] <TheInfinity> alreadx in gutsy
[16:17] <chiefinnovator> how about dapper?
[16:17] <TheInfinity> dapper is old. :p
[16:17] <chiefinnovator> I keep on meaning to upgrade, but now I'm tempted to wait until Firefox 3
[16:19] <TheInfinity> why is FF3 that important?
[16:19] <TheInfinity> you can install FF3 in hardy - if you want.
[16:19] <TheInfinity> but its unstable
[16:21] <chiefinnovator> It just sounds really good
[16:21] <chiefinnovator> I'm in Dapper now, and I can't even get Firefox 2, so I Figured it would be an ordeal getting firefox 3 in Heron if it doesn't come with it
[16:21] <TheInfinity> if you want the latest software you should use gutsy. there you get FF3
[16:22] <chiefinnovator> How does that work?  Is it just in the repos?
[16:22] <TheInfinity> yes
[16:23]  * ccooke is amused to find that the (mozilla-based) browser on his internet tablet is using the same version of gecko as FF3 :-)
[16:24] <ccooke> palmtops that render pages better than desktops are... wrong.
[16:24]  * TheInfinity uses opera. so no proble,ms in this question ;)
[17:34] <WorkingOnWise> where is the work being done for a working java plugin on amd64? blackdown, sun, gcj...
[17:35] <void^> icedtea
[17:35] <lemonade> hope it will be ready for hardy...
[17:35] <WorkingOnWise> thats the longterm solution? so if I install it, when java plugin for amd64 finally works, i'll be there with an update?
[17:35] <lemonade> it's quite buggy atm
[17:36] <WorkingOnWise> lemonade: u sayin that cuz yer jealous? we all know iced tea is better than lemonade  :D
[17:37] <WorkingOnWise> sorry...couldnt resist
[17:37] <lemonade> haha, nope
[17:38] <WorkingOnWise> i will still need gcj if I want to do java code in Eclipse, right?
[17:38] <WorkingOnWise> just not the browser plugin
[17:58] <timing> Hey i don't have direct rendering in hardy, which i had in gutsy
[17:59] <timing> can i submit this as a bug? like: hi, i have this video card. (output from lspci here). and direct rendering is not working. It was working in gutsy tho.
[18:01] <Tomcat_> timing: Yes.
[18:01] <timing> k, will do then :-)
[18:02] <timing> Tomcat_: i forgot which driver was used for my video card in gutsy, is there a way to look that up?
[18:02] <Tomcat_> People will tell you how to debug it more thoroughly usually.
[18:02] <timing> k, interesting :-)
[18:02] <Tomcat_> timing: grep Driver /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[18:02] <Tomcat_> One of these. :D
[18:02] <timing> Tomcat_: i don't have gutsy anymore, that file is from hardy
[18:02] <timing> it's overwritten :-)
[18:03] <Tomcat_> Oh.
[18:07] <timing> okay weird
[18:08] <timing> sudo glxinfo says i do have direct rendering
[18:08] <timing> to which group do i have to add myself then?
[18:10] <Bauldrick> flushplugin doesn't seem to wan to install on my amd64
[18:16] <timing> Tomcat_: any idea about the permissions?
[18:16] <timing> crw-rw-rw- 1 root video 226, 0 2008-01-10 18:40 card0
[18:16] <timing> uid=1000(tijmen) gid=1000(tijmen) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),104(scanner),108(lpadmin),110(admin),115(netdev),117(powerdev),1000(tijmen)
[18:17] <Tomcat_> timing: No idea, sorry.
[18:18] <timing> k
[19:23] <rsk> new alpa coming today?
[20:01] <Tomcat_> rsk: Should, yes.
[20:04] <Usiu> Hi
[20:04] <Usiu> Does hardy support lvm2 ?
[20:09] <rsk> it's not finnished yet
[20:09] <rsk> but it may do soo usuiu
[22:05] <gnomefreak> anyone getting alerts with firefox 2.0.0.10 or tbird 2.0.0.9 in hardy?
[22:05] <gnomefreak> if anyone does please ping me with alert please