[00:37] <blkorpheus> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=659623
[02:53] <NoelJB> Just installed Alpha 3 ... anyone else?  Seems that it doesn't recognize my nVidia at all.  Anything anyone wants me to try before I install the drivers manually?
[02:53] <NoelJB> This is a change from Alpha 2.
[03:43] <pwnguin> hey, does xorg.conf still assume wacom?
[03:43] <pwnguin> by default?
[03:44] <pwnguin> my only install of hardy happens to have wacom =/
[03:44] <infinitycircuit> pwnguin: as far as i know you can just enable wacom manually in /etc/X11/xorg.conf if the autoconfig tool fails to pick you your tablet
[03:45] <pwnguin> i dont have problems
[03:45] <pwnguin> but someone filed a report about zomg wacom in my xorg
[03:45] <pwnguin> i want to mark it invalid but i need to know if it's actually invalid =/
[03:46] <pwnguin> bug #181914
[03:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 181914 in xorg "default X configuration assumes wacom hardware" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181914
[03:54] <gQuigs> anybody getting:  play music or video, go to a tty terminal.  Music or Video pauses?
[03:54] <pwnguin> can't say thats something i do commonly ;)
[03:56] <NoelJB> gQuigs: I haven't tried with A3.  Don't recall seeing them with A2 when I was playing with video.
[03:57] <NoelJB> A3 has its own new set of issues.  And something ACPI related is still totally broken.
[03:59] <gQuigs> this would be ACPI related?
[03:59] <NoelJB> nope,  just an aside.
[04:03] <gQuigs> what exactly is broken with ACPI?
[04:06] <blkorpheus> could someone pastebin a default hardy source.list please?
[04:07] <blkorpheus> I don't trust what I have
[04:07] <blkorpheus> hope this is not read as a "what repos do I use" question?
[04:08] <blkorpheus> synaptic is telling me to check my repos, so I want ot make sure I'm on the same page
[04:08] <blkorpheus> literally
[04:08] <gQuigs> don't think you need more than:  deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy main restricted universe multiverse
[04:08] <NoelJB> blkorpheus, give me a sec ... I just did a clean install, so that should be easy.
[04:09] <blkorpheus> ty!
[04:11] <NoelJB> done
[04:12] <NoelJB> anyone here running on a laptop with a removeable bay, and in a position to crash hardy?  With all hardy releases, I get a solid freeze when a device is removed from the drive bay.  Works fine with Gutsy.
[04:34] <pwnguin> ok, what was this bug regarding gnome-keyring on login?
[04:35] <pwnguin> i log in, and i just get a brown/orange background and movable cursor
[04:39] <gQuigs> hm.. I just reported this... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemulator/+bug/181924
[04:39] <gQuigs> and I don't have access to the duplicate?
[04:39] <pwnguin> marked as a security bug?
[04:40] <gQuigs> ubotu just message me saying it was marked private
[04:40] <pwnguin> im its possible the report includes sensetive information
[04:40] <pwnguin> perhaps a disk image
[04:41] <pwnguin> that does raise an interesting question
[04:41] <pwnguin> who looks at private bugs?
[04:41] <gQuigs> no idea.. and I wouldn't have reported a duplicate if I had been able to see it
[04:41] <pwnguin> and why does LP let you mark private bugs duplicates?
[04:42] <pwnguin> oh
[04:42] <pwnguin> apport did it
[04:42] <pwnguin> fun
[04:43] <pwnguin> gQuigs: someone probably decided to click the apport "this report contains sensative information" button when they reported the crash
[04:43] <pwnguin> i doubt it'll get far
[04:43] <gQuigs> oh ok
[04:54] <burner> lol, i like the topic
[05:05] <NoelJB> Does anyone happen to know how Gnome decides that a USB device is a drive vs a media player when attached?   Gutsy is getting it right, Hardy keeps getting it wrong.  I'll be happy to look into it further, but I'm not sure what mechanism is used.
[05:06] <SeveredCross> Like someone said in #ubuntu, it's udev deciding these things.
[05:07] <hydrogen> Its hal actually
[05:08] <burner> hal -> gnome-volume-manager -> icon on your desktop
[05:08] <NoelJB> hydrogen, and where should I look to find out why it thinks that my 60GB USB drive is a media player instead of just a plain ol' USB drive?
[05:09] <burner> lsusb :)
[05:11] <NoelJB> burner, and from there?  I'm not sure what HAL uses for the mapping.  If you can give me a start, I'll dig further.
[05:11]  * burner shrugs
[05:11] <burner> system -> prefs -> removable drives and media ?
[05:12] <NoelJB> burner, here's a treat for you ... lsusb, unmount usb drive, lsusb ... no change in the listing.  At all.
[05:13] <NoelJB> nevermind ... pilot error.
[05:13] <NoelJB> umounted, but didn't physically unplug.
[05:15] <NoelJB> this is the device in question: Bus 003 Device 008: ID 05e3:0702 Genesys Logic, Inc. USB 2.0 IDE Adapter
[05:15] <NoelJB> and gnome runs music player when that drive is mounted.
[05:16] <NoelJB> burner, no, I looked there.  Unless I am missing it, Removable Drives and Media just controls what happens, but not how it recognizes.
[05:18] <burner> yeah sorry NoelJB, i'm no use
[05:18] <NoelJB> burner, no worries.
[05:20] <NoelJB> hydrogen's suggestion regarding HAL makes sense, but I've so far not figured out why HAL is making the decision it makes.  see /etc/hal/fdi/policy/preferences.fdi (the only file under /etc/hal).
[05:22] <DanaG> Random note: Something odd with SD cards: they don't auto-mount if they're FAT16, for me.
[05:23] <NoelJB> DanaG, this is a regular 60GB external USB drive in an Adaptec housing.  It is bootable, and holds my Gutsy install.
[05:24] <DanaG> Hmm, why it thinks it's a media player?
[05:24] <DanaG> Oh yeah, in addition to /etc/, there's also /usr/share/hal.
[05:24] <NoelJB> But for some reason, when Hardy sees it, it decrees info.category = 'portable_audio_player'  (string)"
[05:24] <DanaG> Odd.
[05:26] <NoelJB> I'll take a look at /usr/share/hal.  No comment on placing configuration informatiion where it doesn't belong (I'm not a fan of putting it anywhere other than /etc).
[05:26] <NoelJB> keeping things in one place makes life easier.
[05:28] <DanaG> I think /usr/share is for the configs that come with it, and /etc is for custom ones.
[05:30] <NoelJB> DanaG, THANKS (aka, BINGO!)  Take a look at /usr/share/hal/fdi/information/10freedesktop/10-usb-music-players.fdi.  Grep for HD300.  There it is.  Precise, and wrong, information.
[05:31] <NoelJB> The Adaptec ACS-120 matches the signature precisely.
[05:32] <NoelJB> DanaG, I don't like the usage, but this isn't the place to argue about where config files belong.  :)
[05:33] <NoelJB> So does this get reported to freedesktop or canonical?
[05:35] <burner> launchpad report would probably do
[05:36] <NoelJB> against which component?
[05:36] <NoelJB> DanaG, thanks.  I've patched the file to comment out the entry, and all is well.  :-)
[05:36] <NoelJB> Now if only fixing hotswap were as easy.  :-D
[05:36] <DanaG> Hmm, I think you can create an FDI file to mark something as hotswappable.
[05:36] <burner> i'd assume libhal package in ubuntu in launchpad?
[05:36] <DanaG> What system is it?
[05:39] <NoelJB> DanaG, yes, but that's not the problem.  The problem is sinply that upon removal from the bay, Ubuntu locks solid.  Not just GUI, but everything.  No response over net, bluetooth devices disconnect, etc.  Nothing at all in logs.  Hard hang requiring power cycle.
[05:39] <NoelJB> It all works perfectly in Gutsy.
[05:40] <DanaG> Hmm.  That's odd.
[05:40] <NoelJB> burner, ah, thanks.  I'll post it in the AM.
[05:40] <DanaG> Does the old kernel still work properly?
[05:40] <NoelJB> DanaG, "Old kernel"
[05:41] <NoelJB> DanaG, please clarify.  I've not had any problem with Gutsy, and no success at all with Hardy since its inception.  And I keep testing each time there is a kernel drop.
[05:42] <DanaG> I mean, if you boot the Gutsy kernel in Hardy, then you can figure out if the kernel is at fault.  Then again, that may be obvious... or it may not be.
[05:42] <NoelJB> DanaG, no I have not tried a combination of the Gutsy kernel and Hardy userland.
[05:44] <NoelJB> I was really hoping to see it working in Alpha 3.  If it isn't working in Alpha 4, I'll start to get nervous, because we clearly don't want something that big hanging until too late in the release cycle.
[05:58] <flamesage> Hello?
[05:59] <flamesage> I have a question.
[05:59] <flamesage> e> If I download Kubuntu Hardy Alpha 3, will I be able to simply do a sudo apt-get update to upgrade to the new KDE 4.0?
[06:00] <crdlb> my understanding is that kde4 is in the hardy repos but not installed by default
[06:00] <burner> aw, so it's not kde4 on the livecd?
[06:00] <burner> crappy
[06:01] <flamesage> yes it is
[06:01] <flamesage> I'm almost positive both 3.5 and 4RC are installed.
[06:01] <burner> cool
[06:01] <flamesage> you just have to choose a session
[06:01] <burner> i'll find out if this torrent ever surges again
[06:01] <burner> cool, i'm excited to check it out
[06:02] <flamesage> me too
[06:02] <flamesage> I had some problems with Kubuntu though...
[06:02] <flamesage> So I'm reluctent.
[06:02] <flamesage> If I install KDE RC now, will I be able to update to the real KDE 4.0?
[06:04] <flamesage> Does anyone know the answer to that? >_>
[06:04] <burner> yes
[06:04] <burner> and yes
[06:05] <bazhang> heh
[06:05] <flamesage> heh ok
[06:05] <flamesage> I'm trusting you! :P
[06:05] <burner> don't trust too much, it's all alpha release stuff
[06:05] <flamesage> Is there a way to boot a Live ISO  /  Install off of a jumpdrive?
[06:05] <flamesage> Just simply unzip the ISO into the directory?
[06:05] <burner> nope
[06:06] <burner> in eeexubuntu, i used a tool to get it's image onto a usb, but i'm not familiar with the voodoo it used
[06:06] <burner> i just ran "sudo ./installtousb.sh" or something
[06:06] <flamesage> o_0
[06:06] <NoelJB> flamesage, I'd recommend a real USB drive, not a jump drive.  There are serious issues trying to run off of flash memory.  Makes installing more complicated.
[06:06] <burner> really?
[06:07] <flamesage> oh
[06:07] <burner> i installed eeexubuntu from a flash drive with no issues on my eeepc
[06:07] <flamesage> I don't have any CD-R!!! :(
[06:07] <burner> cdrw? :)
[06:07] <NoelJB> burner, yes, but what did you do about /tmp, swap, etc?   :-)
[06:07] <burner> NoelJB: the flash drive wasn't an installed kubuntu, it ws the livecd image on the flash drive
[06:08] <burner> then you use the fllash drive to install
[06:08] <burner> just like booting from a livecd
[06:08] <burner> how does a livecd deal with /tmp, swap, etc?
[06:08] <NoelJB> burner, right.  I'm running off of USB as fully installed systems, not LiveCDs  :)
[06:08] <flamesage> So KDE 4 is installed on Alpha 3?
[06:08] <burner> well don't do that ;)
[06:08] <NoelJB> :)
[06:08] <flamesage> Or I can easily install it?
[06:09] <flamesage> Because i want KDE 4 now...
[06:09] <flamesage> I'll take the RC..
[06:09] <flamesage> I just want it :P
[06:09] <burner> just wait a day for kde4 to hit gutsy
[06:09] <flamesage> *sighs*
[06:09] <burner> i think you'll be safer with the older kernel and older xorg
[06:09] <flamesage> I don't think I can wait
[06:09] <flamesage> But ok...
[06:09] <flamesage> *takes the gun away from his head*
[06:09] <flamesage> I'll wait..
[06:09] <flamesage> I'll wait for you KDE 4... :P
[06:09] <flamesage> You better not let me down =P
[06:09]  * burner passes a bowl, chill out mi amigo
[06:10] <flamesage> Sorry, theres just been a ton of hype about KDE 4
[06:10] <burner> eh, i wouldn't say a ton
[06:10] <Amaranth> about kde4
[06:11] <Amaranth> kde 4.0 is going to disappoint
[06:11] <NoelJB> burner, oh, I see. you just used the flash AS the install drive.  Gotcha.
[06:11] <flamesage> please don't say that :(
[06:11] <flamesage> lol
[06:11] <flamesage> Be back in a while
[06:11] <burner> yeah, kde4 doesn't have apps yet
[06:11] <burner> koffice 2 isn't until april
[06:11] <burner> amarok 2 isn't out yet
[06:11] <burner> we just have core desktop and libraries so far
[06:11] <burner> er, he left ;)
[06:12] <Amaranth> buggy core desktop and libraries
[06:12] <Amaranth> 4.1 will be much better, just because of bug fixing and more apps ported
[06:24] <koshaboi> Are KDE4 final packages on the Hardy repository yet?
[06:35] <DarkMageZ> koshaboi, yes.
[06:55] <burne1> so kde4 is not on the livecd in alpha 3
[06:55] <burne1> oh well
[07:09] <kosha> And, is there a graphical way to re-enable Synaptic touchpad scrolling in Kubuntu Hardy?
[08:12] <scizzo-> evening
[08:12] <scizzo-> well morning I would say
[08:13] <scizzo-> any dbus developer/packager around?
[08:14] <stdin> scizzo-: best place to ask is in #ubuntu-devel most devs hang there
[08:14] <scizzo-> got it
[08:14] <scizzo-> thanks
[09:09] <Gnine> openoffice updating error - manager lists 6, only 1 checked. E: /var/cache/apt/archives/openoffice.org-base-core_1%3a2.3.1-3ubuntu1_i386.deb: trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/openoffice/program/libdba680li.so', which is also in package openoffice.org-core
[09:44] <cwillu> synaptic freezes when I hit apply or okay in the preferences dialog.  I mention this here because /tmp/*/hardy seems to do a similar hang in apt_pkg.so (haven't been able to trace anything inside that)
[09:46] <cwillu> ./hardy seems to crash harder though, in that I have to actually use killall to kill it, ctrl+c isn't enough;  while synaptic responds to the ctrl+c
[11:27] <mrtimdog> Why does setting a domain via Network Settings change the host name in /etc/hosts to <host-name>.<domain-name>?
[11:28] <mrtimdog> This seems to then stop lookups for <host-name> from working without a DNS.
[11:29] <cwillu> mrtimdog, are you using samba that you know of?
[11:30] <cwillu> mrtimdog, the recommended lookup is <hostname>.local on the local network
[11:30] <mrtimdog> Hi, yes. I got to here by asking nautilus to share a folder. It then asked to install samba/nfs, I did just samba.
[11:30] <cwillu> and setting the domain name is useful for remote access'y stuff (I've got 15 machines called office at various sites, for instance)
[11:31] <cwillu> mrtimdog, iirc, samba is what lets you use the hostname without any qualification
[11:31] <cwillu> mrtimdog, if you want, you can add .local to the default search domani
[11:32] <cwillu> under network settings | dns | search domains, add local
[11:32] <mrtimdog> I did that, I ended up with all of: <host-name> <host-name>.local <host-name>.<domain-name> and it worked ok.
[11:32] <cwillu> which, to hostname?
[11:32] <cwillu> bah, in hostname I meant?
[11:33] <mrtimdog> Yeah, all for 127.0.1.1.
[11:34] <mrtimdog> Just wondered if the intent was to use just the <host-name>.<domain-name> entry if a domain name has been set.
[11:34] <cwillu> "stop lookups from working without dns";  on which os's?
[11:35] <mrtimdog> Which OS's? I'm using HH.
[11:35] <cwillu> mrtimdog, <hostname>.local and <hostname>.<domain> should both work;  I don't think <hostname> ever works unless you've added samba (in which case, it's actually samba getting confused)
[11:35] <cwillu> on the other machines too?
[11:35] <mrtimdog> I've not got to using samba yet. Just the local machine.
[11:35]  * cwillu is now confused
[11:36] <mrtimdog> Me too :) Ok...
[11:36] <cwillu> bah, brb
[11:36] <cwillu> keep talking though, I'll get back to you :)
[11:36] <mrtimdog> I started with no samba installed...
[11:37] <mrtimdog> Created a folder in nautilus, and asked it to be shared, prompting to install samba or NFS. I chose just samba...
[11:38] <cwillu> okay
[11:38] <mrtimdog> Hang on, just running through it again...
[11:38] <Amaranth> hey guys, KDE 4.0.0 is available for gutsy :P
[11:40] <cwillu> np
[11:40] <cwillu> Amaranth, should've caught me a year ago :p
[11:40] <cwillu> I was all ears while gnome didn't have a working print config :p
[11:43] <mrtimdog> cwillu: Right back to start now, no domain set, no samba or nfs installed. Will add a folder via nautilus and attempt to share it...
[11:44] <Amaranth> cwillu: err, we have had one for as long as i can remember?
[11:44] <mrtimdog> I'm asked to install NFS and/or samba, I choose just samba...
[11:44] <cwillu> Amaranth, gnome's printer dialog was really hangy, and didn't have options for a few things that we needed
[11:44] <cwillu> I'm just being picky :p
[11:46] <mrtimdog> samba installed ok. Now the share dialog pops up with a greyed out 'Share through' drop down. Seems like nautilus hasn't recognised the install of samba. I'll just try a killall nautilus...
[11:47] <cwillu> mrtimdog, what about the shared folders admin menu item?
[11:47] <mrtimdog> Nautilus is asking again to install samba/nfs when I try and share the folder.
[11:47] <mrtimdog> I'll just take a look...
[11:47] <cwillu> mrtimdog, I didn't even notice the nautilus option :p
[11:49] <cwillu> neat
[11:49] <cwillu> mrtimdog, granted that I already enabled samba via the admin menu
[11:50] <mrtimdog> Yeah, hand stuff, I've used it successfully before.
[11:51] <mrtimdog> Sharing via the admin menu tool works, thanks for pointing that out, I didn't know about that one!
[11:52] <mrtimdog> cwillu: So your share was successful via nautilus?
[11:52] <cwillu> seemed like it, although I didn't actually connect to it
[11:53] <mrtimdog> If it add a stanza at the end of your smb.cond you're probably ok.
[11:53] <mrtimdog> smb.conf even
[11:54] <cwillu> and it did
[11:55] <cwillu> too bad they don't add an emblem to the folder when you share it
[12:01] <cwillu> so, I've seem to got apt in a state where it hard locks (non-interuptable)
[12:01] <cwillu> (although kill still works)
[12:02] <cwillu> the hardy upgrade stalls at one notch before the end on "Checking package manager"
[12:02] <cwillu> I traced through the python, and it found it stalls in a c extension module apt_pkg.so
[12:02] <cwillu> this sound familiar to anyone?
[12:22] <cwillu> very interesting
[12:23] <cwillu> ./hardy hangs, but ./hardy --frontend=...Text works
[12:23] <cwillu> gdb shows gtk'ish things in the backtrace (didn't have the debug build of python or much else installed, so it's limited)
[12:28] <cwillu> are all the x utilities bundled in hardy now or something?
[12:45] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A Session in 14 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom!
[13:29] <RainCT> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/hardy/alpha-3/hardy-desktop-i386.iso.torrent   does this image come with KDE4?
[13:29] <RainCT> *hi
[13:29] <kristjan_> still no cd with kde4 for hardy?
[13:30] <Hobbsee> no
[13:30] <Hobbsee> there is for gutsy, i hear
[13:30] <kristjan_> yes, livecd
[13:31] <kristjan_> oh well, then can we expect kde4 cd for hardy?
[13:36] <Hobbsee> yes
[13:36] <Hobbsee> but not eyt
[14:09]  * cwillu_ is about to hit [y] to install hardy.  wish him luck
[14:10]  * cwillu_ has hit [y]
[14:11] <nanonyme> uh-oh
[14:14] <cwillu_> nanonyme, don't uh-oh me;  I already worked around apt_pkg.so getting tripped up with gtk, hanging the gui update-manager -> ./hardy process ;p
[14:15] <nanonyme> cwillu_, erm, i haven't used hardy yet. i just uh-oh'd according to the topic
[14:15] <cwillu_> :p
[14:16] <cwillu_> nanonyme, I have a tradition of installing ubuntu+1 around 3 months early ;p
[14:16]  * nanonyme shrugs
[14:16] <cwillu_> my doctor said it's a treatable condition
[14:31] <WorkingOnWise> Any plans in Hardy to dress up grub, lint Mint has done?
[14:34] <cwillu_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Grub
[14:40] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: what's the point of dressing up something you never look at?
[14:40] <WorkingOnWise> nice. so when will some of these nice polished graphics make it into our updates? I've seen some nice de themes and gdm stuff too.
[14:40] <WorkingOnWise> It's all about the impression....
[14:40] <selckin> i look at grub every day
[14:40] <WorkingOnWise> ppl like pterry
[14:40] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: but it's hidden by default
[14:40] <WorkingOnWise> i'm on a laptop, so I do too
[14:41] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: I usually walk away then turning pc on and come back then login screen shows up
[14:41] <WorkingOnWise> I'm mentally comparing vista to Ubuntu. Vista is so beautyful, it creates the impression of quality
[14:41] <kristjan_> vista has boot loader?
[14:41] <kristjan_> graphical boot loader screen?
[14:42] <WorkingOnWise> Not that most ill see. not graphical
[14:43] <WorkingOnWise> but if we can give eyecandy, I'm all for it. ppl se some pretty splash they never saw before and it grabs their attention
[14:43] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: you know - suse has animated graphical boot screen - beat that
[14:43] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: my point is - this part is low priority
[14:43] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: some things matter more, like the awesomeness of apt ;-)
[14:46] <WorkingOnWise> ell, i agree it isnt near as important as kernel and such, but if e ever want mom and pop to five a first try, e need to amp up the visuals too...sad to say, but I have watched soo many ppl buy a really pretty car for more money, after I told them I didnt trust the engine, or brakes, or electrical, than i have seem buy a car ith a rinkled quarter panel and a ne engine and great maintenance
[14:47] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: with distros it's easier to change your mind once the experience turns horrible after seeing pretty grub slpash screen
[14:47] <WorkingOnWise> but if i have to pick...make it stable and snappy and I'll laugh and the visual nazi's and their broke box...
[14:48] <elkbuntu> was 'nazi' really necessary in that?
[14:48] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: are there any technical reasons that grub is in text mode?
[14:48] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: old monitors, bios problems?
[14:49] <kristjan_> elkbuntu: such an overused word these days ...
[14:49]  * cwillu_ kristjan_, the nazi nazi
[14:49] <WorkingOnWise> i personally know 2 x nazi prison guards, and while they are great guys, and nothing like u might imagine, they are stubborn to the point of foolish, buy thei own words... :) it fits...
[14:50] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: skinheads are their own enemies
[14:50] <WorkingOnWise> eh....u dont want to know what these two think of todays "skinheads"
[14:50] <kristjan_> so anyone knows the reason why grub is in text mode?
[14:51] <WorkingOnWise> stability?
[14:51] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: can you be more specific?
[14:51] <elkbuntu> WorkingOnWise, why not use a less contentious and offensive word?
[14:51] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: I haven't seen a hardware there graphical boot menu doesn't work yet
[14:52] <cwillu_> serial terminal boots (including vm's without a video driver emulated)?
[14:52] <WorkingOnWise> I'm guessing that. like any app, the more complicated u make it, the more chances there are for errors, and a boot loader is a really bad thing to have break, for the sake of pretty....
[14:54] <WorkingOnWise> elkbuntu: didn't mean any harm. sorry.
[14:55] <WorkingOnWise> any good reason for evince-thumbnailer to be running if evince isn't?
[14:55] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, got any new pdf's visible on the desktop?
[14:56] <WorkingOnWise> it's suckin down cpu clock cycles like they are water
[14:56] <WorkingOnWise> not new. they been there a while
[14:56] <WorkingOnWise> days
[14:56]  * cwillu_ 's hobby is writing non terminating postscript files and emailing them to unsuspecting motu's :p
[14:57] <WorkingOnWise> but thats what generates the thunbnail previews for pdf's?
[14:57] <cwillu_> wait, that's actually pretty bad
[14:57] <cwillu_> yes
[14:58] <kristjan_> WorkingOnWise: this is obviously bug, now do your duty and report it :-)
[14:59] <cwillu_> gj, you scared him all the way to launchpad :p
[14:59] <WorkingOnWise> is there an app I can use to see network activity visually, like in system monitor, but that will also help me determing what process is causing bandwith spikes.
[14:59] <WorkingOnWise> lol
[15:00] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, nettop sticks out, but I'm not sure if I just made that up
[15:00] <WorkingOnWise> lol
[15:01] <WorkingOnWise> i'll look for it in synaptic
[15:01] <kristjan_>  alright, I'm about to log in to kde 4
[15:01] <cwillu_> ouch:  ssh <host> sudo synaptic sure shows the password in plain text on the terminal :(
[15:02] <cwillu_> but that's under gutsy, so I don't have to report the bug, I can just complain about the supposed polish on released software :p
[15:04] <WorkingOnWise> um....i've never reported a bug without apport generating the report. how do I do this?
[15:04] <kristjan_> :-( I don't like this panel, it's ugly
[15:04] <cwillu_> launchpad.net
[15:05] <Pici> !bugs
[15:05] <ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
[15:05] <cwillu_> alternatively, killall -SEGV evince-thumbnailer, and apport should start
[15:06] <cwillu_> tcptrack might do what you want
[15:07] <cwillu_> pktstat too
[15:09] <WorkingOnWise> evince-thumbnaler is gone now...i'll keep looking for it to act up again. i wanted to see what files it had opened...  are software bugs like cars? they hide the problem when u tell the mechanic?
[15:10] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, lsof | grep evince-thumbnailer would tell you which files it had open
[15:10] <cwillu_> while it was running at least
[15:10] <cwillu_> lsof | grep <pid from top or wherever> might be more useful
[15:10] <WorkingOnWise> hehe...or I coulda right clicked it and picked "Open Files"
[15:11] <WorkingOnWise> i stay in the gui as much as I can....got away from cli as MS dumbed down DOS more and more....
[15:12] <WorkingOnWise> now I'm finding I should get a bit cozier with the cli<
[15:13] <cwillu_> bind 'set completion-ignore-case on' and bind 'tab: menu-complete' is your friend :p
[15:15] <WorkingOnWise> what does that do? I life off tab completion in the terminal, thats for sure.
[15:16] <cwillu_> menu-complete makes multiple completions just select one after another by repeating tab (I set the old style completion to alt+space for the times I want to see the options)
[15:17] <cwillu_> completion-ignore-case allows cd /etc/x11<tab> to complete to /etc/X11/, and netwo<tab> to complete to NetworkManager
[15:17] <cwillu_> the shift key is not your friend :p
[15:18] <WorkingOnWise> what do I read to learn that kind of stuff. I was a wizard with such things up to DOS 7....
[15:18] <NoelJB> WorkingOnWise, Vista is "beautyful"[sic] ?  Apparently, you're only using screenshots and not working with it.  Vista is the final nail in the coffin driving me to adopt Ubuntu as my full-time host system.
[15:19] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, heh
[15:19] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, learn the ways of man and apropos
[15:19] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, man bash is a wealth of shell information for starters
[15:20] <WorkingOnWise> I beta'd Vista. It is simply the most polished OS I have ever seen....and the clunkiest most cumbrsome OS I have ever worked with
[15:21]  * cwillu_ syntax error line 2
[15:21] <WorkingOnWise> Kinda like a Bently body and interior over a yamaha banshee
[15:22] <cwillu_> for some reason, shiny sounds more correct than polished
[15:22] <WorkingOnWise> Vista did the exact thing for me...it and Office 2007
[15:24] <WorkingOnWise> eh...the fading is very well timed, the shadows feel very appropriate, the color work well. If they put that kind of thought and effort into whats under the hood, GNU/Linux would forever be a curiosity, IMHO. But, well...they didnt
[15:24] <WorkingOnWise> they couldnt
[15:26] <WorkingOnWise> cwillu_: are the bind commands sticky?
[15:26] <cwillu_> I put them in /etc/bash.bashrc
[15:27] <cwillu_> you can put them in ~/.bashrc if you just want them on that user instead of every shell account by default
[15:27] <WorkingOnWise> so if I dont, they are sticky system wide?
[15:28] <cwillu_> no, they'll just apply for the current shell I believe
[15:28] <Pici> muszek___: no worries :)
[15:28] <cwillu_> http://nokia.cwillu.com/bash.bashrc is what I use
[15:28] <muszek___> hi
[15:28] <NoelJB> you don't need the bind if you put them in bashrc
[15:28] <muszek___> I just fired up alpha 3... is pulse audio "in it"?  I'd like to set different volume for rhythmbox and firefox.... possible?
[15:29] <cwillu_> ah, good to know
[15:29] <WorkingOnWise> cwillu_: nokia? u on a Internet Tablet?
[15:29] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, no, I just use cellphone manufacturers for hostnames
[15:29] <cwillu_> easy to remember how to spell it, especially when giving it out to laypersons
[15:29] <NoelJB> cwillu_, at least accprding to http://www.wlug.org.nz/BashNotes.  I'm still playing with it on my end.
[15:30] <cwillu_> NoelJB, meh;  I've got it on at least a couple dozen hosts, I'm not too concerned :p
[15:30] <NoelJB> ?
[15:30] <WorkingOnWise> cwillu_: ah, i c
[15:30] <cwillu_> NoelJB, if it works changed, I'll switch it the next time I'm cssh'd into everything
[15:31] <NoelJB> :-)
[15:31] <cwillu_> (another handy little toy that:  package cluster-ssh)
[15:31] <cwillu_> what I really want however is a hybrid rsync-torrent backup system for my laptop
[15:32] <cwillu_> plug it in at a location, it'll rsync whatever isn't in the torrent to the local machine, which will seed the new pieces until there's at least a couple distributed copies
[15:32] <NoelJB> cwillu_, I'll keep those in mind.  I'm used to the default behavior, but those could be useful.
[15:33] <cwillu_> I think I know how to hack rsync into doing at least the first bit:  rsync --update, and then push 0-byte files out to the mirrors with the same timestamps+1 so they don't copy off the laptop the next time they see it
[15:33] <cwillu_> NoelJB, I kinda wish they'd make it the default to be honest
[15:34] <WorkingOnWise> I'm an information hound and like having answers at my fingertips, so I install every doc for everything on my system, and any other dos that looks remotely useful or potentially interesting. I have all this info, and since I don't know what I dont know, how can I access it not knowing where to start? would google desktop or beagle be useful as a search tool in this context?
[15:34] <cwillu_> it's broken behaviour that you'd need to remember a bitstring (the capitalization patterns) in order for the memory aid to trigger
[15:34] <WorkingOnWise> dos=doc
[15:34] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, apropos
[15:35] <cwillu_> and just start working through /usr/bin and /usr/share/doc until you've read everything :p
[15:35] <WorkingOnWise> cwillu_: that will parse all the documentation I have installed for the words I specify?
[15:35] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, more or less
[15:35] <Pici> or just `man somecommand`
[15:35] <WorkingOnWise> hehe...that'll be fun!
[15:35] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, focus on the 1, 2 and 3 letter commands
[15:35] <cwillu_> cd, ls, du, df, etc
[15:36] <WorkingOnWise> man isn't helpful because a lot of times I know what I want to do, but not what does it
[15:36] <SeveredCross> That's where apropos comes in handy.
[15:36] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, that's what apropos is for, finding the man page you need
[15:36] <SeveredCross> You give apropos a topic it spits out man pages.
[15:36] <cwillu_> wikipedia and google are good for that sort of thing, although I find google tends to weight the man pages themselves pretty heavily
[15:36] <WorkingOnWise> cool.
[15:36] <cwillu_> locate is a lifesaver too
[15:36] <NoelJB> WorkingOnWise, try it, e.g., $ apropos ext3
[15:37] <cwillu_> ls<tab> (or alt+space for my bashrc) is neat
[15:37] <cwillu_> all random things you can list off
[15:38] <cwillu_> and remember that there's man pages for conf files too;  really handy that
[15:38]  * Pici is using zsh now, likes it.
[15:38] <WorkingOnWise> is there a way to get the terminal to Not blank when I exit a man page. to leave what I was looking at there and just return to the prompt?
[15:38] <Pici> WorkingOnWise: How are you exiting the man pages?
[15:38] <WorkingOnWise> q
[15:38] <Pici> Oh, nevermind, I see what you mean.
[15:39] <WorkingOnWise> it does it in a vt, but not in a terminal window in the gui
[15:39] <WorkingOnWise> and I almost never use the vt's
[15:40] <cwillu_> WorkingOnWise, man <foo> -P more works
[15:40] <cwillu_> but I don't like more
[15:44] <WorkingOnWise> more is closer to what I want, but i cant move around in the man page , only down.
[15:44] <cwillu_> less -X
[15:44] <cwillu_> so man <foo> -P less -X
[15:44] <cwillu_> maybe
[15:45] <cwillu_> works for plain old less, but not with man
[15:45] <WorkingOnWise> yup. big nasty error...
[15:45] <WorkingOnWise> eh, I'll find it.
[15:46] <WorkingOnWise> I used to have DOS cli so tweaked, I think me and my brother were the only 2 that could get anything done! I'll get there again in GNU/Linux
[15:48] <cwillu_> ahhhhhhh
[15:48] <cwillu_> man <foo> -P "less -X"
[15:48] <cwillu_> otherwise it uses -X as a dpi arg
[15:49] <WorkingOnWise> thats it exactly.... "D
[15:49] <WorkingOnWise> ")
[15:49] <WorkingOnWise> :)
[15:49] <WorkingOnWise> fat fingers!
[15:50] <cwillu_> heh
[15:50] <cwillu_> okay, I'm crashing hard;  time for bed
[15:50] <cwillu_> maybe when I wake up, I'll have a fresh hardy system!
[15:50] <cwillu_> only 4 more hours for the download (that's what happens when you have 10% of the packages in main, restricted, universe and multiverse installed :p)
[15:51] <WorkingOnWise> lol.. thanks for the cli primer
[15:51] <cwillu_> (it starts trying to download 2 gigs everytime you upgrade to a lousy new distro release
[15:51] <cwillu_> heh, np
[15:51] <cwillu_> later
[15:53] <WorkingOnWise> whats the big fancy video app that Pixar uses?
[16:05] <Tomcat_> WorkingOnWise: RenderMan?
[16:05] <Tomcat_> WorkingOnWise: Maya?
[16:05] <Tomcat_> WorkingOnWise: 3D Studio?
[16:09] <Aondo> they are probably using blender :P i bet!
[16:11] <Tomcat_> :-D
[16:12] <NoelJB> WorkingOnWise, they often use proprietary rendering software.
[16:16] <WorkingOnWise> NoelJB: I thought their main app was open source, but in googleing, I see that it is actually commercial, with several renderman compliant foss projects.
[16:17] <NoelJB> WorkingOnWise, in any event, drifting rather OT for this channel :)
[16:38] <_Shade_> hi there
[16:49] <_Shade_> can we, kubuntu users count on something further than kde 4.0.0 release in the final Hardy version? Don't get me wrong, kde4 looks promising but it's very uncomplete at the moment and would leave kubuntu users way behind the others
[16:50] <Skiessl> is there a tool for recovering files from a ntfs partition that was on this hard drive before this ubuntu one?
[17:15] <Oli``> Just upgraded to Alpha3. Should I be running on -386 or -generic?
[17:17] <fruitbag> Hey
[17:17] <fruitbag> I really like the codenames that the Ubuntu team chooses.
[17:17] <fruitbag> :)
[17:17] <fruitbag> Hardy Heron
[17:17] <fruitbag> Feisty Fawn
[17:18] <Pici> !codenames
[17:18] <ubotu> Ubuntu has awesome release codenames. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames for more
[17:18] <fruitbag> Hey, Pici... Ubuntu is such a clean and elegant Linux distro.
[17:20] <fruitbag> I'm seriously considering switching completely to Ubuntu.
[17:22] <Pici> Thats nice to hear.
[17:23] <fruitbag> Only one thing, Pici... in Windows, I listen to internet radio using Winamp.
[17:23] <fruitbag> Is there an alternative in Linux?
[17:23] <Pici> !players
[17:23] <ubotu> Audio (Ogg, MP3...) players: Audacious, Banshee, Beep Media Player, Listen, Quod Libet, Rhythmbox, Exaile, XMMS (GTK/Gnome based) and Amarok, JuK (Qt/KDE based).  Video players: Totem, Xine, MPlayer, VLC, Kaffeine - See also !codecs
[17:23] <fruitbag> Sure, Pici... but I want internet radio.
[17:24] <NoelJB> fruitbag, rythmbox will play internet radio
[17:24] <fruitbag> Do they all receive internet radio?
[17:24] <fruitbag> Alright, NoelJB.
[17:24] <fruitbag> Thanks
[17:24] <fruitbag> That's pretty much the only thing.
[17:24] <Pici> Many of them can.
[17:24] <fruitbag> I'm going to run Doom 3 in Ubuntu ;p
[17:26] <fruitbag> Ah, man -- do you know what would be great? Windows running on an IBM 12" Thinkpad laptop.
[17:26] <fruitbag> That would be amazing.
[17:26] <fruitbag> ...I want to have this setup in the future when I'm at university.
[17:28] <fruitbag> And, then, I'm going to make my desktop flexible by using scripts
[17:28] <fruitbag> And I'd write my documents in oppenoffice.
[17:28] <fruitbag> Man
[17:28] <fruitbag> I have so many good ideas here.
[19:06] <Oli``> Mono. Anyone know who hid the metapackage?
[19:21] <SeveredCross> No idea. I tend to use meebey's Debian repo anyway.
[19:21] <SeveredCross> Mono in Ubuntu was heavily outdated for quite some time. What's the version in Hardy?
[19:23] <Pici> !info mono-common
[19:23] <ubotu> mono-common: common files for Mono. In component main, is optional. Version 1.2.6+dfsg-5ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 111 kB, installed size 728 kB
[19:26] <SeveredCross> Hey, it's up to date.
[20:11] <cdm10> Has anyone here run Hardy in VirtualBox?
[20:12]  * TheInfinity just tries hardy in vmware fusion
[20:13] <cdm10> Ah.
[20:13] <cdm10> Wait, Fusion? Isn't that OS X?
[20:13]  * Pici just runs it on his main linux computer
[20:13] <TheInfinity> cdm10: yes ;)
[20:13] <cdm10> Anyway, I'm just annoyed that the VirtualBox guest additions won't work.
[20:13] <cdm10> Probably has to do with the new kernel.
[20:14] <cdm10> Ooh, found a packaging bug...
[20:14]  * cdm10 reports
[21:17] <siriusnova> so what are the opinions of kde4?
[21:17] <siriusnova> thus far
[21:18] <hydrogen> my pants are still wet.
[21:18] <hydrogen> i mean
[21:18] <hydrogen> its okay
[21:18] <siriusnova> k
[22:03] <ader10> Please do not use gnome for future versions of ubuntu. It is targeted for "dumb" users. They remove features because they're confusing and don't let users configure their environment enough. KDE, enlightenment, or xfce would be a far better choice.
[22:07]  * hydrogen giggles
[22:08] <articpenguin3800> anyone having problems with e2fsprogs
[22:08] <hydrogen> that was pretty creative
[22:08] <articpenguin3800> e2fsck at boot
[22:08] <articpenguin3800> keeps dieing with exit status 1
[22:09] <articpenguin3800> also my home partition keeps getting bad superblock
[22:09] <siriusnova> someone please tell the folks in ubuntu-offtopic to unban me :(
[22:10] <siriusnova> my friend got on my comp
[22:10] <siriusnova> and got me banned
[22:10] <siriusnova> when i was in the shower
[22:10] <siriusnova> :(
[22:10] <Pici> siriusnova: ask yourself in #ubuntu-ops
[22:10] <articpenguin3800> siriusnova: go to #ubuntu+1
[22:10] <articpenguin3800> ya ubuntu-ops
[22:10] <articpenguin3800> my bad on that
[23:24] <phin> hello, i was wondering if anyone else was experiancing random crashes with xorog, under hardy, while using the intel driver and compiz.  it just seems to randomly blank the screen and then i cannot get in to anything.  even attempting to switch to a console doesn't work.
[23:24] <phin> s/xorog/xorg
[23:31] <nekostar> hrmzorz
[23:31] <nekostar> i think i need me some hardy!
[23:31] <nekostar> !hardy
[23:31] <ubotu> Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1, NOT #ubuntu
[23:33] <nekostar> any changes via 64bit?
[23:33] <nekostar> meaning...
[23:33] <nekostar> does flash work fully etc now?
[23:34] <infinitycircuit> nekostar: funny joke
[23:35]  * nekostar shrugs
[23:36] <nekostar> infinitycircuit thought 64bit flash was getting better or so
[23:36] <nekostar> what about syncing phones?
[23:36] <nekostar> hrm
[23:37] <nekostar> infinitycircuit i dont use that much
[23:37] <nekostar> multimedia / gtkpod / k3b / pidgin / xchat / firefox etc
[23:37] <nekostar> any major problems there?
[23:37] <nekostar> [besides the normal alpha2 broken stuff of course lol]
[23:50] <pwnguin> I think im gonna have to start cherry picking authors from planet ubuntu
[23:50] <pwnguin> i dont need eight posts from eight people on how kde is coming soon, or today