[10:54] <jussi01> thanks jpatrick
[10:54] <jpatrick> jussi01: no problem
[10:56] <jussi01> good evening Hobbsee
[10:56] <Hobbsee> heya1
[10:56] <jpatrick> right...
[10:58] <Hobbsee> right.
[10:59] <jpatrick> here we go
[11:00]  * Lure just added one topic, so that we have something to discuss ;-)
[11:00] <jpatrick> Lure: better be the party food..
[11:00] <Lure> jpatrick: not sure if I want virtual party food ;-)
[11:00]  * Lure eats some baklava instead ;-)
[11:01]  * Lure still waits for wiki to accept his change :-(
[11:01] <jpatrick> Lure: it's there
[11:01] <jpatrick> Riddell: ping!
[11:01] <Hobbsee> pong
[11:01] <Lure> Riddell has party hangover ;-)
[11:01] <Hobbsee> oh noes, i'ts Keybuk!
[11:02] <Lure> or better is taking some sleeping overtime to recover ;-)
[11:03] <nosrednaekim> hey everyone
[11:05] <jpatrick> so, we start without our leader?
[11:05] <fdoving> hi.
[11:05] <jpatrick> vorian: around?
[11:05]  * vorian waves
[11:05] <vorian> howdy
[11:05] <Nightrose> morning :)
[11:06] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: want to chair?
[11:06] <emonkey> good morning
[11:06] <nosrednaekim> its like... 6 here...
[11:06] <nosrednaekim> uhhg
[11:06] <jpatrick> #startmeeting
[11:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:06. The chair is jpatrick.
[11:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[11:06] <Hobbsee> where's our agenda?
[11:07] <jpatrick> should we do members first?
[11:07] <jpatrick> [LINK] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[11:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[11:07] <Hobbsee> do we have quorum?
[11:07] <Hobbsee> me, lure....
[11:07] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: we can mail the log later?
[11:07] <Lure> nixternal, kwwi, Tonio_, Riddell: ping
[11:08]  * Hobbsee looks for Riddell's number
[11:09] <jpatrick> i think it's on his site
[11:09]  * Nightrose thinks riddell gets some much needed sleep right now
[11:09] <mhb> I'd start with the topic first and do members once jr arrives (he usually does)
[11:09]  * Hobbsee sends a sms
[11:10] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: go for the topic.
[11:10] <Hobbsee> it'll be cause for more discussion anyway
[11:10] <Hobbsee> hopefully nixternal will appear, too
[11:10] <jpatrick> [TOPIC] Kubuntu touch of KDE4 look
[11:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu touch of KDE4 look
[11:10] <nosrednaekim> its 5 where he is...I doubt it
[11:11] <jpatrick> Lure: it's your point :)
[11:11] <Lure> are there any plans to do any changes to kde4 artwork to make it "kubuntu"-like?
[11:11] <Lure> I would not like to digress from default look, just add some indication that it is kubuntu
[11:11]  * jpatrick thinks we need Riddell 
[11:11] <Lure> suse adds logo to kickoff menu
[11:12] <Lure> jpatrick: we can still discuss and do not make decision ;-)
[11:12] <smarter> The K logo at the top right of konq4 look really out of place
[11:12] <Lure> but it would be good to have Riddell and kwwii
[11:12] <nosrednaekim> Lure: I think that we generally don't have logos on things.
[11:12] <Lure> nosrednaekim: I think we need to improve that
[11:12] <jpatrick> Lure: I think the logo on the kickoff would be good
[11:13] <Hobbsee> up to now, the idea has been that we distribute a usable, but close version of kde3
[11:13] <Hobbsee> s/3//
[11:13] <jpatrick> we had it in KDE3
[11:13] <Lure> nosrednaekim: we are more and more differentiated towards ubuntu, so we should have some insignia
[11:13] <Lure> jpatrick: exactly
[11:13] <mhb> Lure: we should respect the ubuntu branding policy
[11:13] <Lure> jpatrick: and that level was about right
[11:13] <Lure> mhb: sure, but this does not prevent us to use kubuntu logos
[11:14] <Lure> like we already do for usplash
[11:14]  * Hobbsee notes that ubuntu already has it's own menu logo
[11:15] <Lure> I would keep K logo on panel, but would be good to differentiate article screenshots by distribution somehow
[11:15] <Lure> anyway, I do not think we can conclude on this today (ENORIDDELL, ENOKWWII) ;-)
[11:16] <nosrednaekim> speaking of Kmenu, are we going to use Kickoff? the simple menu is packages and its very nice.
[11:17] <Lure> nosrednaekim: I would personally not change that
[11:17] <nosrednaekim> :(
[11:17] <Lure> I had problems at first (getting used to), but now I even use it instead of katapult
[11:17] <Lure> just search and execute
[11:18] <mhb> Lure: doesn't it launch google when nothing is found?
[11:18]  * Nightrose thinks it is horrible to use on a laptop with touchpad
[11:18] <Nightrose> but on my desktop it is nice
[11:18] <Hobbsee> erk, the new kmenu.
[11:19] <Nightrose> and I had to make it show more items to make it usable for me
[11:19] <Nightrose> 15 now here
[11:20] <nosrednaekim> in any case, I think it would be nice to be able to right clickon it like regular kickoff and select the old style menu.
[11:20] <jpatrick> Lure: how does suse put their logo in?
[11:20] <Lure> jpatrick: below icons
[11:21] <jpatrick> i was thinking maybe up the righthand side :)
[11:21] <fdoving> i like the new kickoff, it's pretty much quicker to find things once you get used to it, and i use a laptop with touchpad/point.
[11:21] <mikkael> 12 entries is max @ the new menu i think
[11:22] <Lure> mikkael: no, you can configure it
[11:22]  * Lure uses 15
[11:22] <Nightrose> Lure: hehe /me too
[11:22] <Lure> jpatrick: I would preffer that (similar to kde3)
[11:22] <fdoving> i use 10, but the default should also fit nicely in atleast a 1024x768 resolution.
[11:22] <Lure> jpatrick: I like that icons are near the K icon
[11:23] <mikkael> im on 1024*768 and i cant get it bigger than 12..
[11:24] <jpatrick> right-hand side after the arrows :)
[11:24] <fdoving> mikkael: right, so the default 10 is probably sane.
[11:25] <Lure> mikkael: ups, this is really little - I am probably not representative as I like small (8-9pt) fonts on 1920x1200 screen
[11:27] <jpatrick> morgen allee
[11:27] <fdoving> hi allee.
[11:27] <Hobbsee> guten tag allee!  Wie gehts?
[11:28] <jpatrick> shall we intrograte vorian now?
[11:28] <allee> hi together
[11:28] <allee> Hobbsee: hallo dein deutsch wird von meeting to meeting immer besser!
[11:29] <jpatrick> allee: eben wann es "geht's" ist? :)
[11:29] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: +1, we'll send the rest by mail
[11:30] <Hobbsee> allee: haha :)
[11:30] <jpatrick> ok, should we discuss having a #kubunt-kde4?
[11:30]  * Tonio_ is sorry for beeing that late....
[11:30] <jussi01> yes!
[11:30] <jpatrick> #kubuntu-kde4 channel?
[11:30] <Lure> jpatrick: why do we need separate channel
[11:31] <jpatrick> Lure: ton of users asking
[11:31]  * Lure has problems following too many channels already ;-)
[11:31] <nosrednaekim> no, don't do that. However, it is awfully crazy now that there are two versions of kde people can be talking about
[11:31] <jpatrick> [TOPIC] Possiblity of a #kubuntu-kde4 channel
[11:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Possiblity of a #kubuntu-kde4 channel
[11:31] <Lure> I do not hang out much in #kubuntu, but if it would help in support, it may probably work
[11:31] <jussi01> I feel #kubuntu is becoming inundated with kde4 questions, shutting out kde3 users
[11:32] <vorian> i think it's a good idea to have a separate channel.
[11:32] <Lure> I am fine if kubuntu ops in the #kubuntu channel make that decision
[11:32] <mikkael> fdoving: i took screenshots of the new k-menu's default size (10 entries) and one with the max entries (i said 30, but its 12) on 1024*768, if you want to have a look..?
[11:32] <fdoving> i am fine with kde4 questions in #kubuntu.
[11:33] <Riddell> gah
[11:34] <Hobbsee> Rif
[11:34] <fdoving> mikkael: sure. i can have a look. i use 10 myself, on 1440x900.
[11:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: finally :)
[11:34] <Lure> Riddell: welcome recovery ;-)
[11:34] <mikkael> fdoving: do you know a place where i can post ?
[11:34] <jussi01> hi Riddell :)
[11:34] <jpatrick> wb Riddell
[11:35] <Riddell> what did I miss?
[11:35] <allee> fdoving: I'm not in #kubuntu, so I can just if KDE4 question really 'shutting out kde3 users'.   If yes,   -kde4 may make sense until 4.1 when everything is rock solid in 4 land
[11:35] <fdoving> mikkael: http://imageshack.us/
[11:35] <Nightrose> Riddell: short discussion on kickoff and kubuntu branking in kde4
[11:35] <fdoving> allee: its not like we answer kde3 questions only, it's about vsftpd, ssh, apache, mysql.
[11:35] <jpatrick> Riddell: Kubuntu kde4 artwork on kickoff and now we're on #kubuntu-kde4
[11:35] <Nightrose> and now #kubuntu-kde4 or not
[11:35] <fdoving> among other things.
[11:36] <allee> fdoving: of course ;)
[11:37] <jpatrick> ok, should vote on the channel thingy?
[11:37] <Lure> Riddell, Tonio_: http://pastebin.com/m78ef6fe3
[11:38]  * allee +1 only if KDE4 question make > 80 % of traffic in #kubuntu for a longer time
[11:38] <jussi01> +1 on #kubuntu-kde4 from me.
[11:38] <Tonio_> Lure: checking
[11:39] <jpatrick> [VOTE] #kubuntu-kde4
[11:39] <MootBot> Please vote on:  #kubuntu-kde4.
[11:39] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[11:39] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[11:39] <fdoving> -1 on another special channel from me.
[11:39] <MootBot> -1 received from fdoving. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[11:39]  * allee doubt that's true.  So -1 ;)
[11:39] <jussi01> +1
[11:39] <MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
[11:39] <mikkael> +1
[11:39] <MootBot> +1 received from mikkael. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[11:39] <jpatrick> evil bot
[11:39] <nosrednaekim> -1
[11:39] <MootBot> -1 received from nosrednaekim. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
[11:39] <Lure> +0, as I think it is a decision that irc operators/supporters should made based on experience
[11:39] <Riddell> -1 too many irc channels already
[11:39] <MootBot> -1 received from Riddell. 2 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[11:40] <nosrednaekim> not a member ...but I don't like it.
[11:40] <Tonio_> -1 for me too
[11:40] <MootBot> -1 received from Tonio_. 2 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[11:40] <Hobbsee> +1
[11:40] <MootBot> +1 received from Hobbsee. 3 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[11:40] <nosrednaekim> And I think I spend enough time in there that I should be able to vote :)
[11:40] <jpatrick> +1 but I'm on the too many channels
[11:40] <MootBot> +1 received from jpatrick. 4 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
[11:40] <Lure> good, decided ;-)
[11:40] <jpatrick> #endvote
[11:40] <fdoving> allee: the bot didn't register your /me thing.
[11:41] <mikkael> max size: http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12zi9.png default: http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10dq6.png. but 12 is still not enough for me so im back on the traditional menu
[11:41] <jpatrick> so... vorian up next?
[11:42] <Riddell> vorian: here?
[11:42] <vorian> yep
[11:42] <fdoving> mikkael: i'm sure you can get more if you put the menu on the panel.
[11:42] <vorian> hello
[11:42] <jpatrick> [TOPIC] Steve Stalcup's membership
[11:42] <MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
[11:42] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 4 against. 0 abstained. Total: 0
[11:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  Steve Stalcup's membership
[11:42] <vorian> Hello,  I am Steve and I am a Kubuntu-a-holic.  (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenStalcup)(https://launchpad.net/~vorian)
[11:43] <vorian> I stepped down as the TL for my LoCo team so they could start a council.  This has allowed me to focus more on helping out with QA etc, and really dig in and learn maintaining.
[11:43] <vorian> and more specifically helping out Kubuntu
[11:43] <mikkael> fdoving: nope, maybe my resolution limits it
[11:43] <Lure> vorian: I see you are ubuntu member already, so what is the reason for applying for kubuntu membership too? just recognition?
[11:43] <allee> fdoving: that's fine.  I've /me +1 and -1 and I'm never in #kubuntu.  So  0 from me is fair
[11:45] <vorian> Lure, just want to be part of the team :)
[11:45] <Hobbsee> vorian: why, though?
[11:45] <Lure> vorian: ok, so what were the kubuntu-specific that you were doing in past months?
[11:46] <jpatrick> vorian has been busy with packages :)
[11:47] <vorian> packaging, bug triage
[11:47] <Riddell> you know I don't think I've seen your package of kdetorrent-kde4
[11:47] <Riddell> nixternal never did upload it
[11:47] <vorian> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ktorrent-kde4
[11:48] <vorian> there it is
[11:48] <vorian> also kmldonkey
[11:48] <vorian> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kmldonkey-kde4
[11:48] <Riddell> ooh, good, my mistake
[11:49] <vorian> :)
[11:50] <Lure> since vorian is ubuntu-member already, I am fine giving +1 based on these two contributions already (as he had for sure had others ubuntu contributions before)
[11:51] <Riddell> vorian: do you plan to go for MOTU at some point?
[11:51] <vorian> Riddell: that is my hope
[11:51] <Riddell> vorian: are you a recent convert to kubuntu or have you always used kde?
[11:51] <Hobbsee> fine by me, seems strange to go for kubuntu after though
[11:51] <vorian> thanks Lure
[11:52] <vorian> Riddell: nixternal got me using kde about 4 months ago
[11:52] <Riddell> he can be a persuasive chap
[11:52] <vorian> lol
[11:52] <Tonio_> hehe
[11:52] <Riddell> +1 from me for helping with the 4.0 packaging
[11:53] <Tonio_> +1 for me too
[11:53] <Riddell> Hobbsee: was that a +1?
[11:54] <Riddell> well we're at quorum anyway, welcome to kubuntu membership vorian
[11:54] <vorian> thanks Lure, Hobbsee, Tonio_, and Riddell :)
[11:54] <vorian> :)
[11:54] <jussi01> congrats vorian
[11:54] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes
[11:54] <jpatrick> vorian: congrats
[11:54] <Riddell> any other memberships?
[11:54] <vorian> thanks :)
[11:55] <Lure> welcome vorian - and hope to see more contributions from you in future
[11:55] <allee> vorian: congrats from me too!
[11:55] <Riddell> any other business?
[11:55]  * nosrednaekim thinks that maybe he'll go for membership next time
[11:55] <vorian> thanks allee :)
[11:55] <allee> and welcome in the wonderful world of KDE4 ;)
[11:55] <vorian> Lure: you can count on it :)
[11:55] <Lure> Riddell: what is your opinion about adding kubuntu insignia to kde4?
[11:55] <Lure> Riddell: we discussed kickoff menu
[11:56] <Riddell> Lure: I notice opensuse add their logo to the kickoff menu, someone could hunt out that patch
[11:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: can do
[11:56] <Riddell> thanks Tonio_
[11:56] <Lure> Riddell: I am only not sure I like suse solution
[11:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: no pb
[11:56] <Lure> I would preffer side logo, like in kde3
[11:57] <Tonio_> Lure: +1, I really hate kickoff
[11:57] <Lure> Tonio_: I am not suggesting to use simple menu, just side logo in kickoff ;-)
[11:57] <jpatrick> Riddell: I thought you loved it
[11:57] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: yeah, I was happy when I discovered the simple menu :)
[11:57] <jpatrick> Tonio_: *
[11:57]  * Lure got used to kickoff (much faster than kde3 version)
[11:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: patch will be done tomorow probably
[11:58] <Tonio_> Lure: I understood tat, I just wanted to troll a bit about the long debated kickoff menu hehe :)
[11:58] <Lure> Tonio_: ;-)
[11:58] <nosrednaekim> another thing I wanted to mention was hte whole kdesu problem in kde4
[11:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: what's the cycle for importing .pot files in rosetta ?
[11:59] <Riddell> there should be sudo support in kdesu so I think that's just a case of finding the argument for cmake in kdebase
[11:59] <nosrednaekim> will symbolic linking the kde4 kdesu to kdesudo work?
[11:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: we need to blog a bit for translators to spend some time on guidance, now all strings are in the pot
[11:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: woot ! real sudo support ? that's nice :)
[11:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: ask carlos, but message freeze isn't for a while
[12:00] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, just same as in kde 3.  a kde 4 port of kdesudo would be best
[12:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, I currently try to improve my c++ knownledge to clean up the code, but yeah, porting kdesudo to kde4 shouldn't be that hard, the code is very simple...
[12:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: would be nice to have for hardy or can that wait for hardy +1 ?
[12:01] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: ah ok, because that is the major complaint right now. but i'm glad it can be easily fixed.
[12:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have other priorities and as you know I prefer to spend my time on kde3 atm, that's why I didn't do much on the kde4 side... everybody seems to forget about kde3 ;)
[12:02] <Tonio_> kde3 dialog boxes have to  be fixed or example... lots of things like that
[12:02] <Lure> Tonio_: kde3 is so '90s since yesterday ;-)
[12:03] <nosrednaekim> :)
[12:03] <Tonio_> Lure: but still our default DM, and for a while
[12:03] <Tonio_> I don't consider kde4 a desktop manager atm, more like a framework
[12:03] <Lure> Tonio_: sure, I plan to have it on my work laptop as backup for some time
[12:03] <allee> Tonio_: I, well at least my user, will stay with kde 3 for hardy
[12:04] <Tonio_> allee: of course, kde4.0 is just the base, so many things missing to be considered a consistent desktop manager
[12:04]  * Lure is looking forward kdepim-enterprise to get into 3.5.9
[12:04] <Tonio_> that's why I'd appreciate people here to still help on the kde3 side
[12:04] <Tonio_> nobody even noticed ark was broken for month for example...
[12:04] <allee> that would be great Lure ;)
[12:04] <Tonio_> also I have to finish that kio-apt thing....
[12:04] <Lure> allee: it is planned and I do not see any showstopper
[12:05] <Lure> allee: they plan to merge by end of month, afair
[12:05] <Tonio_> 6 month late compared to ubuntu is enough, I don't want to miss too many functionnalities
[12:05] <Tonio_> appart from that, if the meeting is considered over, who will be at fosdem this year ?
[12:06] <Tonio_> I got confirmation my company is sending me there ;)
[12:06] <Tonio_> Lure, allee ? :)
[12:06] <Riddell> I should be
[12:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: great !
[12:07]  * Nightrose will be
[12:07] <Nightrose> apachelogger as well
[12:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: other ubuntu guys like dholbach, siretart or so should to what you know ?
[12:07] <Tonio_> Nightrose: great, we should eventually discuss on a plan to all meet there
[12:07] <allee> Tonio_: I'll think about it.
[12:07] <Tonio_> allee: super
[12:08] <Riddell> Tonio_: I've no idea, start a wiki page and ask people to add their details
[12:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure
[12:08] <Nightrose> Tonio_: well Riddell, apachelogger, a few others and I stay in the same hotel so just trop by ;-)
[12:08] <allee> great idea
[12:08] <Nightrose> *drop
[12:08] <allee> Nightrose: mention the hotel in the wiki page ;)
[12:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: will do, but only tomorrow, I have to go all the day as I'm buying a new car....
[12:09] <Tonio_> allee: dunno what my hotel will be atm, my company decides.... as they will pay for everything, that makes sense :)
[12:09] <jpatrick> Tonio_: no way I'm going :(
[12:09] <Tonio_> jpatrick: :'(
[12:09] <jpatrick> unless the school colapses
[12:10] <Nightrose> oh and pkern (motu) will be around as well
[12:10] <Lure> Tonio_: probably not (no time)
[12:12] <jpatrick> so meeting over?
[12:12] <Riddell> I think so
[12:12] <Riddell> thanks all
[12:12] <Riddell> sorry I was late
[12:13] <jpatrick> #endmeeting
[12:13] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:13.
[12:17] <Tonio_> Lure: oki :(