[01:37] <bigon> any archive admin here?
[02:07] <TheMuso> !weekend | bigon
[02:07] <ubotu> bigon: It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
[03:18] <__mikem> Does anyone know if wubi is going to come with the next version of ubuntu?
[03:27] <LaserJock> __mikem: since it was in 7.10 I would think there would be a good chance
[03:28] <__mikem> LaserJock: I was under the impression that it DIDN'T make 7.10
[03:30] <__mikem> LaserJock: are you SURE that it is really in 7.10?
[03:36]  * Hobbsee waves
[03:38] <__mikem> Hobbsee: you are a dev, could you shed some light on this wubi issue
[03:39] <bddebian> WTF is wubi?  I don't see it in Gutsy, Hardy or anywhere else
[03:39] <Hobbsee> bddebian: windows installer
[03:39]  * bddebian vomits
[03:39] <Pici> iirc, it was on the Gutsy dvd/cds.
[03:39]  * __mikem gives bddebian a motion sickness bag
[03:40] <__mikem> Pici, hold on, let me mount the cd image in windows
[03:41] <LaserJock> I saw it on Gutsy CDs I thought
[03:42] <__mikem> Pici, its not on the cd image I downloaded
[03:42] <__mikem> Pici, where did you see it
[03:42] <Hobbsee> __mikem: what about ti?
[03:42] <Pici> __mikem: I never saw it, but I recall someone in #ubuntu mentioning it.
[03:43] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i'm not sure if they ever put it on there - it wasn't as good as they watned it
[03:44] <Hobbsee> yes, i think they shelved it, as it was untested, etc, and was still missing bits
[03:44] <__mikem> Pici, I found something, It was hidden on the disk
[03:44] <__mikem> bbl
[03:44] <Hobbsee> lupin-casper and lupin-support seem to be the packages
[03:45] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: ahh, I may have checked on an alpha or something
[03:46] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i think it was on the alpha's, yeah
[03:50] <Hobbsee> bigon: you can sync yourself, you know
[03:57] <__mikem> Okay, there is an exe for wubi in the root dirrectory for the 7.10 cd, but I don't quite know how to use it.
[03:58] <Chipzz> 04:38 < __mikem> Hobbsee: you are a dev, could you shed some light on this wubi issue >> not all devs know of all software; some focus on a specific set of packages :)
[03:58] <__mikem> okay
[03:58] <__mikem> That question is open to anyone here
[03:59] <somerville32> lol
[04:00] <Pici> __mikem: run it?
[04:01] <__mikem> okay
[04:01] <Pici> Okay then.,
[04:01] <somerville32> lol
[04:01] <somerville32> I dunno if that is a good sign or a bad sign
[04:17] <simplechat> hey everyone
[04:17] <somerville32> hi
[04:17] <Hobbsee> bigon: presumably you'll need to rebuild that, according to the debian bug?
[04:18] <simplechat> i was wondering, at what point can a linux distro be ported over to a new hardware platform?
[04:19] <simplechat> when it has a usable C compiler? or a usable C++ compiler?
[04:20] <persia> simplechat: Generally once linux, glibc, and bash work, it's worth investigation.  Getting the special hints into the autotools hint files is a good first step.  This isn't the best forum for that discussion, although I don't know the correct channel.
[04:20] <Hobbsee> bigon: wait, no, it's fine.  ask me for a giveback if it builds in the wrong order
[04:21]  * calc2 is working on splitting OOo into tiny bits!
[04:21] <calc2> so far i have just removed duplication but haven't tried actually seeing if it still builds ok
[04:21] <Hobbsee> calc2: \o/
[04:21] <calc2> removed around 100MB compressed code from orig.tar.gz
[04:21] <Hobbsee> nice work!
[04:21] <Hobbsee> calc2: so i shouldn't bother upgrading?
[04:21] <calc2> the rest is going to be a bit harder since i have to figure out what it is
[04:22] <calc2> Hobbsee: oh i doubt this will be done by hardy release
[04:22] <calc2> if it is i will be very surprised
[04:22] <Hobbsee> awww
[04:22] <calc2> i have to see how well i can split it and probably go to hamburg to convince upstream to implement the split as well
[04:22] <simplechat> persia, what about compilers?
[04:23] <calc2> upstream probably wouldn't get it out until 3.0 timeframe if i can get it working
[04:23] <simplechat> i would need something to cross-compile the kernal, wouldn't i?
[04:23] <LaserJock> calc: how split?
[04:23] <calc2> though the throwing away duplicated code could be in ubuntu earlier
[04:24] <calc2> LaserJock: so far i have been just removing code that shouldn't really be there (since its 3rd party code)
[04:24] <lamont> simplechat: compiler, libc, kernel, then begin an interesting iterational loop
[04:24] <calc2> LaserJock: next step is to find a way to separate parts of ooo build into logical subparts
[04:24] <calc2> LaserJock: and hopefully make i18n build a lot faster in the process as well
[04:25] <simplechat> brb, thunderstorms
[04:25] <calc2> LaserJock: since currently the i18n part takes 8hr+ and really shouldn't
[04:25] <simplechat> yeah, interesting
[04:25] <simplechat> :( hopefully not utterly painfull
[04:25] <LaserJock> calc2: wow, that'd be spectacular
[04:28] <calc2> crap when i reset my router at home i forgot to open up ssh port :-\
[04:29] <calc2> and the access point i'm leeching off here at the photo shoot only does ~ 16KB/s download
[04:29]  * calc2 needs to download the alpha-3 amd64 iso for reinstalling his laptop
[04:32] <__mikem> Apparently I am going to need the alternate install CD, because when I finally got to the part where it boots into X, my screen went a funny pattern of lines and colors. Can the alternate CD be used for a wubi install?
[04:34] <LaserJock> I don't think for installation
[04:37] <calc2> mjg59: ping
[04:38] <calc2> mjg59: any new news about resuming from suspend on intel 965 on amd64 arch?
[04:39] <__mikem> Okay, before I go wasting a disk, I need to know something. When I tried to get the alternate install CD, I ended up with a file that was exactly the same size, and had the same file name as the regular install CD, how am I supposed to know that this is really the alternate cd?
[04:40] <persia> __mikem: You can check the md5sum against that listed on the download site.
[04:40]  * Hobbsee flees the storm
[04:41] <LaserJock> although having same size and name doesn't sound like you got a different disk
[04:43] <__mikem> Okay, these disks are identical, and I specifically requested to download the alternate cd, NOW I AM ANGRY
[04:48] <__mikem> Seriously, how do you download the alternate install CD?
[04:49] <LaserJock> __mikem: what country are you located in?
[04:49] <__mikem> USA
[04:50] <LaserJock> West or East?
[04:50] <__mikem> east
[04:51] <LaserJock> __mikem: you might try http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/ubuntu-releases/gutsy/
[04:52] <__mikem> laserjock, someone needs to me made aware that clicking on that checkbox on the download page for the ubuntu cd images does absolutely nothing
[04:53] <persia> __mikem: File a bug against ubuntu-website to report that
[04:53] <LaserJock> __mikem: well, it worked for me when it first came out, but I can check again
[04:55] <LaserJock> __mikem: oh, you are right
[04:55] <LaserJock> I just tried it
[05:01] <__mikem> LaserJock: also, if it is true that the alternate cd can't be used for wubi installs, something has to be done about that because that means that there is no way to do a wubi install on any of the new hp pavilions
[05:04] <LaserJock> __mikem: well yeah, that's why it's still under development
[05:04] <LaserJock> it's a pretty new thing
[05:04] <LaserJock> and there's always lots of work to be done
[05:04] <LaserJock> and much of the time by volunteers
[05:05] <__mikem> and someone needs to do something about the fact that these hp notebooks appear to be designed to make it as painful as possible to run linux on it
[05:06] <__mikem> well, I am going to give this a shot anyway
[05:11] <LaserJock> not sure if I should have mentioned that I have a new hp notebook that runs Gutsy beautify ...
[05:19] <StevenK> LaserJock: You're terrible.
[05:20] <LaserJock> oh? :-)
[06:57] <Hobbsee> heya Burgundavia
[07:18] <\sh> I know it's sunday morning, but if any archive admin is awake, can you please check what's wrong with libming on the buildds? source upload  was accepted, but after compiling successfully, the buildd tells me, that the source is older than that package what's in the archive...(https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libming/0.3beta1+cvs20051127-1ubuntu1/+build/489662)
[07:18] <Hobbsee> \sh: reping me about it when i get back
[09:25] <\sh> Hobbsee: reping :)
[09:25] <Hobbsee> \sh: repong :)
[09:26] <\sh> Hobbsee: ok...I did an update upload of libming for libgif transition...source upload went fine, got the accepted message..this morning the buildd mailed me about this issue: 3:46:47 WARNING        libming0_0.3beta1+cvs20051127-1ubuntu1_i386.deb: Version older than that in the archive. 0.3beta1+cvs20051127-1ubuntu1 <= 1:0.3.0-12ubuntu1
[09:27] <\sh> apt-cache showsrc or apt-get source libming but gives me the 0.3beta1 version nothing else.
[09:28] <\sh> Hobbsee: the original mail from LP: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/51746/
[09:30] <Hobbsee> \sh: erm, ming appears to be the new source.
[09:30] <Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~% showsrc libming | grep Binary                8:29PM
[09:30] <Hobbsee> Binary: libming-util, libming-dev, libswf-perl, libming0, python-ming
[09:30] <Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~% showsrc ming | grep Binary                   8:29PM
[09:30] <Hobbsee> Binary: python-ming, ming-fonts-opensymbol, libswf-perl, libming-util, libming-dev, php5-ming, ming-fonts-dejavu, libming0
[09:32] <\sh> Hobbsee: wtf? why is the old source in the archive still? that's crap
[09:32] <Hobbsee> \sh: no one filed a removal request?
[09:32] <Hobbsee> someone's cleraly stuck the new ming in there, without checking
[09:33] <\sh> there is not even a conflicts/replace  as it looks like ...
[09:34] <\sh> the c/r section is totally crap of ming...so what's the real package...because libming removed the php extensions on purpose...
[09:35] <Hobbsee> \sh: assuming that libming and ming are from the same package (and are supposed to match), rather than 2 projects with the same name, ming appears to be the new source, and libming should be nuked, and the conflicts/replaces on ming should be strenghtened.
[09:35] <Hobbsee> that's what i get, version-wise
[09:36] <Hobbsee> \sh: i think you want to @lart dAniel hAhler
[09:36]  * Hobbsee isn't sure if he's a MOTU
[09:36] <Hobbsee> hm, i think he is.  blueeyed.
[09:36] <Hobbsee> hm, i think he is.  blueyed.
[09:37] <\sh> well...reading the changelogs ...
[09:37] <\sh> libming is old and stinks , ming is younger and agile ;)
[09:37] <Hobbsee> and, lutin gets the blame for syncing, without checking that it's arleady there.
[09:38] <\sh> well, I'll tight the c/r section a bit more...and we need to get rid of libming source
[09:38] <Hobbsee> \sh: go ahead and file a removal request for libming, and do the c&r
[09:39] <\sh> Hobbsee: will do...this is really confusing...
[09:39] <Hobbsee> \sh: preferably remind Lutin to check for existing sources, before requesting new syncs, too
[09:40] <Hobbsee> \sh: want me to file libming removal while i'm here?
[09:40] <\sh> Hobbsee: I'm filing the report...could you remove libming then? ,-)
[09:41] <\sh> Hobbsee: outch
[09:42] <\sh> Hobbsee: why nobody saw that? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libming/+bug/64535
[09:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 64535 in libming "UVF Exception: libming (0.3beta1) -> ming (0.3.0)" [Medium,Fix released]
[09:42] <Hobbsee> \sh: i can't - no privs
[09:42] <Lutin> Hobbsee: why did I do ?
[09:42] <\sh> and the no-pony award goes to : cjwatson_ ;)
[09:43] <Hobbsee> \sh: strange - that was during a time of freeze, had the filer, and two members of ubuntu UVF at that time, both of whom are MOTU's, and none of them thought about the old source, it appears.
[09:43] <Hobbsee> Lutin: requested a sync of ming, without dealing with libming at all, it appears.
[09:44] <Hobbsee> Lutin: they produce a lot of the same binaries.
[09:44] <Hobbsee> \sh: this is why i tend to think that some of our universe freezes are ineffective - someone, out of 3 people, should have picked that up.
[09:45] <Hobbsee> okay, 4, because colin did the sync afterwards.
[09:45]  * Hobbsee suspects the people on the UVF team got complacent.
[09:45] <\sh> Hobbsee: well, yes, but humans can do mistakes..so soyuz or the sync util should check before what binaries are proposed by the source package and check those names against our binary package archive list
[09:45] <persia> It's not a matter of making the freezes stronger, it's just a matter of having better tools to check.  I suspect the new source was clean, had a good changelog, built, and worked.
[09:46] <\sh> bug #182491
[09:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182491 in libming "[SRC REMOVAL] libming" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182491
[09:46] <Hobbsee> \sh: sure, but 4 humans all making the same mistake is kinda bad :)
[09:46] <Hobbsee> \sh: there are already scripts that do that
[09:47] <Lutin> well ok, and what's the correct way to check for issues like that ?
[09:48] <\sh> Lutin: when you replace a source package, it's likely that the old source package as the same binary packages
[09:48] <persia> Lutin: Check the binaries from a package, and make sure it doesn't match a different binary name.
[09:49] <\sh> Lutin: to check that, a simple cat debian/control|grep Package is enough and then feed the result into apt-cache show
[09:50] <Lutin> yep
[09:51]  * Hobbsee checked what was creating the binary libming0, and saw two different source packages listed there
[09:51] <Hobbsee> lifeless has a script somewhere that checks for possible conflicts, too
[09:52] <persia> Hobbsee: That only checks filename conflicts, not source/binary name conflcts (http://conflictchecker.ubuntu.com/possible-conflicts/)
[09:53] <Hobbsee> persia: yeah, that.  i was assuming there would be some filename conflicts too
[09:53] <persia> Hobbsee: Might be, but maybe just /usr/share/doc/*
[09:54] <Hobbsee> persia: true
[09:55] <\sh> well, a quickshot could be this...to executed in the debianized source tree
[09:55] <\sh>  for i in `cat debian/control |grep Package|cut -d " " -f 2` ; do grep-dctrl -F Binary $i /var/lib/apt/lists/*Source*|grep "Package" ; done
[09:55] <\sh> and result was: libming and ming
[09:56] <persia> Two sources building the same binary usually indicates a removal is required, as otherwise it's impossible to predict the state of a system when analysing a bug report.
[09:57] <\sh> persia: the problem here: src libming -> binary versions with an epoch, src ming -> binary versions with an epoch...
[09:57] <persia> \sh: That's just an extra problem.  The real problem is both ming and libming having a binary with the same name.
[09:59] <pitti> good morning
[09:59] <Hobbsee> morning pitti!
[10:00] <Hobbsee> pitti: seeing as you'r ehere, do you mind nuking libming?
[10:00] <Hobbsee> er, source, and binaries that are not also in ming
[10:00] <pitti> Hobbsee: bug#?
[10:00] <pitti> ah, source package renaming? sure
[10:00] <Hobbsee> pitti: https://launchpad.net/bugs/182491
[10:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182491 in libming "[SRC REMOVAL] libming" [High,Confirmed]
[10:01] <\sh> pitti: the bug existed since 2006 ;) and never raised a problem until yesterday ,-)
[10:03] <pitti> done
[10:03] <\sh> thx
[10:05] <geser> Hi pitti
[10:10] <Hobbsee> bigon: tha'ts still broken, btw
[10:10] <bigon> yeah just see that too
[10:11]  * Hobbsee kills f-spot
[10:11] <Hobbsee> right, problem solved.
[10:12]  * bigon doesn't understand, the pkg works when build outside of a pbuilder (probabily a missing build-dep)
[10:18] <Hobbsee> bigon: it all built.  itj ust doesn't fix the problem
[10:21] <\sh> how can I tell trackerd to stop spamming me with all this notify boxes
[10:22] <Hobbsee> purge it.
[10:34] <pitti> that's what I eventually did as well; even disabling tracker completely in the prefs doesn't help to get rid of the tray icon
[10:44] <bigon> Hobbsee: it seems that there are two solution to fix the issue:
[10:45] <bigon> 1) a temporary fix in the flickrnet pkg 2) fix the real issue in the mono pkg
[10:46] <Hobbsee> bigon: what does each involve?
[10:47] <bigon> the best is the 2nd: the alternatives of some exec are not correctly created -> rename the postinst and prerm script
[10:47] <bigon> debian bug 460513
[10:47] <ubotu> Debian bug 460513 in mono-1.0-devel "mono-1.0-devel doesn't create alternatives" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/460513
[10:49] <Hobbsee> right
[10:54] <bigon> Hobbsee: patch in bug 182509
[10:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182509 in mono "Correctly install alternatives" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182509
[10:54] <Hobbsee> bigon: and if you think i'm touching mono, you need a club over the head :)
[10:54] <Hobbsee> soren might, though.  he likes touching scary things.
[10:55] <bigon> I'll contact the debian mono team
[10:55] <bigon> damm the patch is not good
[11:03] <pitti> sjoerd: hm, I saw that you uploaded PK 0.7 to unstable; does that work for you at all? 0.7 breaks both gnome-mount and g-s-t, and I cannot even get the CLI tools to work
[11:12] <sjoerd> pitti: dunno, but nothing is build against it so it should be harmless
[11:13] <pitti> sjoerd: ah, I see
[11:14] <emgent> hello pitti :P
[11:14] <pitti> hi emgent
[11:14] <sjoerd> pitti: but mbiebl is the one to ask, i didn't do any PK related stuff just yet
[16:02] <bigon> anybody brave enough to have a look at bug  182509 ?
[16:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182509 in mono "Correctly install alternatives" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182509
[17:53] <Mithrandir> lamont: we don't want Xen on LPIA.
[17:53] <lamont> heh.  ok
[17:54] <lamont> I'll take that back out then
[17:55] <Nafallo> hehe
[17:57] <Mithrandir> if anybody says we want it, I'll be happy to have words with them.
[18:01] <Nafallo> hahaha
[18:01] <Nafallo> :-)
[18:04] <zul> heh
[18:04] <flowers> hello! so i was just redirected to this chan to ask some questions about hal, would anyone mind helping me out?
[18:06] <lamont> Mithrandir: fixe
[18:06] <lamont> d
[18:06] <flowers> well, here goes anyway. so i updated my freshly installed kubuntu and afterwards hal wont start at boot. everything points to say that it should be fine but i need to restart it to get things to work properly any ideas?
[18:17]  * bigon throw bug  182509 at some core-devel
[18:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182509 in mono "Correctly install alternatives" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182509
[22:04] <Amaranth> mjg59: what's that bit about 0x80 being debug hardware and causing lockups?
[22:27] <rbs-tito> Is anyone here?
[22:28] <selckin> you are
[22:28] <rbs-tito> I'm considering improving a GNOME application, shall I submit my changes to GNOME bugzilla or Launchpad?
[22:29] <awalton__> rbs-tito, both?
[22:29] <awalton__> you can link the lp one to the upstream as well.
[22:30] <rbs-tito> awalton__: Well, if I send it upstream it will come downstream eventually anyway. But is there a proceedure similar to the Debian bugs proceedure, so that it can be linked to the Ubuntu project as a contribution?
[22:31] <awalton__> not that I'm aware of, but that doesn't count for a whole lot. does there need to be?
[22:31] <rbs-tito> awalton__: Just checking before I go ahead
[22:32] <rbs-tito> OK, I'm ready to get cracking
[22:32] <rbs-tito> (I'm adding an album art preview thumbnail to sound-juicer)
[23:21] <ion_> doko: Hi
[23:21] <ion_> doko: Do you think it would be possible to get ruby 1.9.0 from sid to hardy?
[23:25] <ion_> doko: Judging from the sid changelog, the ”Add -g to CFLAGS” change in Ubuntu has been applied there. I’m not sure whether the other lines in the Ubuntu changelog signify a delta in Ubuntu or just list things that have happened in Debian up to the merge.
[23:26] <ion_> doko: If it’s the latter, a sync should be enough.