[00:13] <stdin> wesley: http://bugs.kde.org
[00:13] <stdin> blueyed: you've tested the patch I presume?
[00:13] <wesley> stdin should i not mail the dutch translators
[00:13] <blueyed> stdin: sure.. I've pbuilt the package and it worked after installing the new packages.
[00:14] <stdin> wesley: mail the team yes
[00:14] <wesley> kde-i18n-nl@kde.org  is this the right e-mail?
[00:14] <stdin> blueyed: ok, but you'll need to poke Riddell or apachelogger to upload to hardy
[00:14] <blueyed> stdin: I've forwarded it to bugs.kde.org - maybe they come up with a better fix.. but at least somebody else had the same problem already here today, so..
[00:15] <stdin> wesley: not sure, people in #kde will know
[00:17] <wesley> stdin what do you think of kde4?
[00:17] <stdin> wesley: I think it's great :)
[00:18] <Jucato> moin!! for everyone's reading pleasure: http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/microserveces08 :D
[00:19] <wesley> me to a few bugs but useable but i have to be fair i dont like the new menu its not good funtion the suse menu was better if i wanted to go back to apps i needed just to click on tab apps in kde4 is this not :(
[00:20] <Nightrose> you can get the old menu back can´t you?
[00:20] <stdin> there's a big < button on the left when you're in a menu
[00:20] <Nightrose> if you really don´t like it
[00:20] <wesley> yes i know but thats not fast enough for me
[00:21] <Nightrose> but I used it and have to say I like it now after I made it show 15 instead of 10 entries and added a few favourite applications
[00:21] <Nightrose> so I can access them faster
[00:23] <wesley> yes the favo part is good i must admit but the tabs are not so goods is like this  > > > and if you need to get to other group you need to do <<< thats slow if it could be like this >>> and back just tab en next app group )
[00:24] <Nightrose> if you know the name just type it in the search at the top
[00:24] <DaSkreech> They should have a ^^^ and vvv
[00:24] <DaSkreech> To get to catergories above and below :)
[00:24] <wesley> bigger was also not bad but kbfx will come to kd4 ? i liked the vista thing from they
[00:27] <wesley> i did worked to day on windows by my girl and i did not like the way how you can see hidden maps in exploxer
[00:27] <Jucato> wesley: kbfx is being "re-thought/worked" as raptor for kde4
[00:28]  * Jucato actually thinks vista got the inspiration for the menu from kbfx :)
[00:33] <wesley> ow i hope more pc stores will add linux to there os list
[00:35] <wesley> is it true that making money with linux is hard?
[00:36]  * Jucato points at Red Hat...
[00:36]  * Nightrose points at google
[00:37] <Jucato> but Google didn't really start out as an open source company did it?
[00:37] <Nightrose> hehe true
[00:37] <wesley> i had that dissucion with the mother of my girlfriend she said pc stores will sell something faster where they can get msny money from
[00:37] <Jucato> I could have pointed out to Novell and Canonical too.. but Red Hat started as a Linux distributor from the very beginning
[00:37] <wesley> but with kubuntu making money is hard he :P
[00:38] <Nightrose> well making money is hard (mostly) all the time
[00:38] <Nightrose> noone is giving it away for fre ;-)
[00:38] <DaSkreech> Jucato: they make money with Linux
[00:38] <Nightrose> well nixternal is maybe
[00:38] <Nightrose> ;-)
[00:38] <Jucato> :D
[00:38] <DaSkreech> that was the kriteria :)
[00:38] <Nightrose> DaSkreech: right
[00:39] <Nightrose> *g*
[00:39] <wesley> i mean you vant realy sell kubuntu for 50 euro
[00:39] <Jucato> DaSkreech: I know. but I was pointing to a more extreme example :)
[00:39] <Nightrose> wesley: there are other ways to make money
[00:39] <nixternal> DaSkreech: any news on coming here next week?
[00:39] <Jucato> wesley: you have to shake of the mentality that making money with software is limited to just selling the software :)
[00:40] <Nightrose> exactly
[00:40] <wesley> yeah i knoe depens on the group you sell it
[00:40] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Well if you can burn down AA that would greatly satisfy me
[00:40] <Jucato> actually it depends on what you're actually selling
[00:40] <DaSkreech> nixternal: I'm probably going to be on the phone with them all tomorrow
[00:40] <nixternal> DaSkreech: so I take that as a no?
[00:40] <nixternal> k, I will hold off until tomorrow afternoon to make my dorm reservations then
[00:41] <Jucato> nixternal: you might want to see http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/microserveces08 btw :)
[00:41] <DaSkreech> nixternal: the website says I'm booked (with some legal stuff saying they can stop me getting on the plane if they want) but no confirmation
[00:41] <wesley> but would be cool a limeted edition box from kubuntu XD
[00:41] <nixternal> they can stop anyone from getting on a plane, so that is probably some standard mumbo jumbo
[00:41] <DaSkreech> I called them and they said they see me in the system I should get an e-mail and it will say if I got the ticket or not
[00:41] <DaSkreech> but this is like 4 days now
[00:42] <wesley> hoe can i compile flash?
[00:42] <wesley> can i do that best in kde3?
[00:43] <Jucato> you don't compile flash actually..
[00:43] <wesley> the plugin is broken
[00:43] <Jucato> you basically download the plugin from adobe's servers and stuff it into some directory
[00:45] <nixternal> DaSkreech: what time is the ticket for in Chicago?
[00:45] <wesley> first you could just install the plugin from out adept
[00:46] <wesley> having not flash can be a good thing
[00:48] <DaSkreech> nixternal: 8:55
[00:48] <nixternal> pm?
[00:48] <DaSkreech> 20:55
[00:48] <nixternal> my lord
[00:48] <nixternal> when do you fly out?
[00:48] <DaSkreech> leave 13:25
[00:49] <nixternal> maybe we can meet for breakfast on Tuesday then
[00:49]  * DaSkreech sleeps in the airport!!
[00:49] <DaSkreech> :)
[00:49] <nixternal> I have to check into the visitor dorms by 10pm
[00:50] <DaSkreech> HOw far is it from airport?
[00:51] <nixternal> 45 minutes
[00:51] <DaSkreech> hmmm
[00:52] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[00:52] <DaSkreech> I'm not sure how quickly I can sneak around security and get my bags and meet you by the brandonmobile
[00:52] <nixternal> brandonmobile?
[00:53]  * DaSkreech plays theme music
[00:54] <nixternal> there used to be a restaurant in the hotel there at o'hare, so we wouldn't have to leave the airport
[00:55] <jjesse> i hate o'hare airport
[00:55] <DaSkreech> Everytime I think of chicago I think of batman sorry :)
[00:55] <DaSkreech> jjesse: no comfy places to sleep? :)
[00:55] <jjesse> DaSkreech: besides the hotle, nope not really
[00:55] <nixternal> but why would I have the brandonmobile? maybe imbrandon, but I have the nixtertruck :p
[00:55] <jjesse> and the cleaning people play music loud between 2am and 4am
[00:56]  * jjesse goes afk as he puts away groceries
[00:56] <DaSkreech> nixternal: the brandonmobile sounds cooler?
[00:56] <nixternal> we can grab a bite to eat or what not at Andiamo..it is in the O'Hare Hilton
[00:57] <DaSkreech> Sure :)
[00:58] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Doh!
[00:58] <DaSkreech> wait 10:00 not 13;25
[00:58] <nixternal> ya
[00:58] <nixternal> 10:00, about 3.5 hours prior to your flight
[00:58] <DaSkreech> no the flight leave 10:00 not 13:25 :-)
[00:58] <nixternal> d'oh
[00:59] <nixternal> you don't want to meet up do you :p
[00:59] <DaSkreech> I arrive from chicago at 13:25
[00:59] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Hey I booked a flight that would land me in Chicago
[00:59] <nixternal> so you get to Chicago Monday evening at about 20:30 and leave Tuesday morning at 10:00
[00:59] <DaSkreech> I'm doing the best I can
[00:59] <DaSkreech> Si senor
[01:00] <nixternal> heh, well tuesday morning I am in class until 9am
[01:00] <DaSkreech> and I have to board an hour before >_<
[01:01] <wesley> how can i navigate in konsole to my home
[01:02] <DaSkreech> wesley: type cd
[01:03] <Jucato> "cd ~" or just plain "cd"
[01:03] <wesley> and then home/username
[01:03] <Jucato> no
[01:03] <Jucato> just plain "cd" puts you into $HOME already
[01:04] <Jucato> "cd ~" too.. since ~ is shorthand for $HOME (/home/username/)
[01:05] <DaSkreech> jjesse: what's o'hares call sign?
[01:05] <nixternal> ord
[01:07] <nixternal> hrmm, can't preview image files in Konqi, and everytime a website loads with a gif in it, it wants to open it in gwenview or save it
[01:09] <DaSkreech> kde4?
[01:10] <nixternal> of course..I don't use KDE 3 any more :p
[01:11] <DaSkreech> trunk?
[01:11] <DaSkreech> or branch?
[01:11] <ScottK2> nixternal: What mail client do you use?
[01:11] <nixternal> packages now
[01:11] <nixternal> ScottK2: KMail
[01:12] <ScottK2> So you are using KDE3.
[01:12] <nixternal> just a couple KDE 3 apps, but not KDE 3 itself
[01:13] <DaSkreech> KDE3 was the devil!!
[01:13] <DaSkreech> I mean .. umm
[01:13] <DaSkreech> *koff*
[01:14] <DaSkreech> Might be able to ship with 4.0.3 :)
[01:14] <DaSkreech> nixternal: tagged packages or a tracking ppa?
[01:24] <nixternal> hardy packages
[01:24] <nixternal> I don't remember having this problem when using svn checkout
[01:25] <DaSkreech> you know this would be easier and more fun) if you came to the party :-P
[01:32] <DaSkreech> Jucato: I want a home server too
[01:32] <DaSkreech> blinkety blink
[01:32] <Jucato> :)
[01:47] <jjesse_> ok back
[01:48]  * DaSkreech waves at  th GoldenPony
[01:48] <ryanakca> heh, looks like gentoo is in a pickle
[01:49] <DaSkreech> ryanakca: Isn't pickling an operation not an object?
[01:49] <Hobbsee> greetings
[01:51]  * ryanakca waves to Hobbsee 
[01:52] <DaSkreech> How goes?
[01:55] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: eh? it's an expression?
[01:56] <DaSkreech> ryanakca: Ah
[01:56] <DaSkreech> what's it mean?
[01:56] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: *reformulates* From what I just read, looks like gentoo is in trouble
[01:56] <DaSkreech> hasn't gentoo nearly always been in trouble
[01:56] <DaSkreech> it's kinda like Debian
[01:56] <DaSkreech> always about to fall apart
[01:57] <ryanakca> their charter was revoked a couple of weeks ago, all the trustees save two have mysteriously disappeared, legal issues, developper wars, etc
[01:57] <DaSkreech> Or is this something else?
[01:57] <DaSkreech> Legal?
[01:57] <DaSkreech> what legal?
[01:58] <ryanakca> Now the founder is proposing to the community to temporarily become a sabdfl and reorganise the project, recreate the foundation, etc.
[01:58] <DaSkreech> Right I think he does that every few montsh
[01:58] <DaSkreech> months
[01:58] <ryanakca> umm... supposedly, despite his having stepped down ages ago, he's still marked as the president of the board in... new mexico?
[01:58] <DaSkreech> Something like that
[01:59] <DaSkreech> but he's a fairly notorious gambler and the community paid off all his bills at least once
[01:59] <DaSkreech> he then left to go and work at microsoft
[01:59] <DaSkreech> and then came bacc
[01:59]  * ryanakca nods... I think he tried to get reinvolved with the project a year or so ago, but decided it wasn't worth the trouble
[01:59] <ryanakca> eh? microsoft?!?!?!?
[02:00] <DaSkreech> He's not exactly a sabdfl but he has been so far the most unifying force in Gentoo
[02:00] <DaSkreech> ryanakca: Yeah
[02:00]  * ryanakca wonders how microsoft could hire him over their biases, other than to get close to the "enemy" :)
[02:00]  * ryanakca yawns and grumbles at his homework pile
[02:01] <DaSkreech> ryanakca: they have an open source lab
[02:01] <DaSkreech> they need people who are good at open source
[02:01] <DaSkreech> They pay a lot
[02:01] <ryanakca> ah :)
[02:01] <DaSkreech>  he burns through money
[02:01] <DaSkreech>  it's was pretty much love at first writ
[02:02] <ryanakca> http://blog.funtoo.org/2008/01/here-my-offer.html
[02:02] <DaSkreech> Plus he had just been fired from gentoo cause he couldn't do any work cause he had gotten into money issues again
[02:02] <DaSkreech> In any case
[02:02] <DaSkreech> The gentoo community is caustic without him
[02:02] <DaSkreech> they don't like outside people they don't like each other
[02:03] <DaSkreech> politics gets very very personal
[02:03] <DaSkreech> he pops up every few months and offers to step back up
[02:03] <DaSkreech> someone says yes we should which instantly makes them a target for other bile throwers
[02:04]  * ryanakca nods
[02:04] <DaSkreech> it gets heated fights start goes on for a few months
[02:04] <DaSkreech>  then he pops up again
[02:04] <ryanakca> lol :)
[02:16] <jjesse> anyone know where to get more widgits for kde4?  like a weather widgit?
[02:17] <DaSkreech> ryanakca: So the legal issue is that he is registerd in new mexico?
[02:18] <DaSkreech> there is one in svn
[02:21] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: I believe so
[02:22] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: that, and the former board not submitting paperwork to the goverment in time, etc
[02:26] <DaSkreech> they are american?
[02:26] <DaSkreech> Right
[02:26] <DaSkreech> I find it hard to think of distros in terms of countries :)
[02:26] <DaSkreech> Other than mandriva :)
[04:21] <plavcik> Jucato, nixternal: you might want to see http://www.homeserverhacks.com/2008/01/data-corruption-issues-with-windows.html
[04:56] <nixternal> plavcik: hahaha, that dude got owned :p
[05:19] <yuriy> hmm there is no kbluetooth for kde4 is there
[05:20] <nixternal> dunno honestly...I figured that would all be a part of solid
[05:23] <nixternal> wish I could figure out how to implement XMLHttpRequest in Qt Script
[05:23] <nixternal> looks like I will have to create a dataengine for plasma
[05:24] <Jucato> yuriy: if kbluetooth is in extragear/pim, then there doesn't seem to be any in trunk
[05:35] <nixternal> ATI Radeon 9700 + Driver "radeon" + KDE 4 == ooh so buggy
[05:35] <nixternal> probably best to give Xgl a whirl
[05:37] <nixternal> ooh 'Fields of Peace" wallpaper is super hot with a nice big widescreen
[05:38] <nixternal> looks like I am looking outside through a window on a nice sunny day :p
[05:38] <DaSkreech> nixternal: they have new drivers out
[05:38] <nixternal> who is they?
[05:39] <nixternal> you aren't talking about the radeonhd drivers are you?
[05:39] <DaSkreech> yes
[05:39] <nixternal> cuz I don't think those will work with the x300 chipset
[06:33] <nixternal> updating the webkitkde package and will upload after testing
[06:34] <nixternal> ie. making sure my plasmoid works first :p
[06:40] <nixternal> hey you tweeter!
[06:41] <nixternal> In solution <kde4libs-bin:=[UNINST], kdelibs5:=[UNINST]>;[kdelibs5 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2 -> {}, kdelibs5-dev 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2 -> {kdelibs5 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2}];-122:
[06:41] <nixternal> Unexpectedly non-broken dependency kdelibs5 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2 -> {}! (kdelibs5 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2 is not installed)
[06:41] <nixternal> apachelogger_: ^^ those depends :p
[06:41] <nixternal> and not the diapers for adults
[06:42] <nixternal> figures you show up after I pasted it thinking you were already in here :)
[06:42] <nixternal> In solution <kde4libs-bin:=[UNINST], kdelibs5:=[UNINST]>;[kdelibs5 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2 -> {}, kdelibs5-dev 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2 -> {kdelibs5 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2}];-122:
[06:42] <nixternal> Unexpectedly non-broken dependency kdelibs5 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2 -> {}! (kdelibs5 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2 is not installed)
[06:42] <DaSkreech> night
[06:42] <nixternal> k'nite
[06:44] <apache|mobile> nixternal: that ain't very verbose, is it?
[06:44] <nixternal> nah, I am thinking some of your updates haven't built out just yet
[06:45] <nixternal> The following packages have been kept back: kdelibs5 kdelibs5-dev
[06:45] <apache|mobile> woohooo
[06:45]  * apache|mobile is wondering
[06:48] <apache|mobile> nixternal: you're on i368?
[06:48] <nixternal> apache|mobile: ya
[06:49] <apache|mobile> unless one of the ubuntu2 packages didn't hit the archive yet, there is an issue, because i368 finished building already
[06:49] <nixternal> ya, that must be it
[06:50] <nixternal> no, they are in the archives
[06:50] <nixternal> kdelibs5 (= 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu1)
[06:50] <nixternal> that is in kdelibs5-dev
[06:50] <apache|mobile> Oo
[06:50] <nixternal> kind of hard to depend on an older version :p
[06:51] <apache|mobile> very strange
[06:51]  * apache|mobile heads over to the control file
[06:51] <nixternal> hehe
[06:51] <apache|mobile> Depends: kdelibs5 (= ${binary:Version})
[06:52] <nixternal> hrmm
[06:53] <apache|mobile> nixternal: apt-get update
[06:53] <nixternal> done that about 20 times :0
[06:53] <nixternal> let me do a clean
[06:53] <apache|mobile>  Depends: hspell, kdelibs5 (= 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2)
[06:53] <apache|mobile> -dev is fine
[06:53] <nixternal> hrmm
[06:53]  * nixternal wonders if it is the damn mirrors
[06:54] <nixternal> nope, cuz I am not using the mirrors
[06:55] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: lax vs. lachs ;-) I luv my business economics professor :D
[06:56] <nixternal> hrmm, this is annoying....but even pbuilder is doing it
[06:57] <apache|mobile> maybe the package lists in the archive ain't updated yet
[06:57] <apache|mobile> *shrug*
[06:59] <nixternal> checking them now
[07:09] <nixternal> man, this is really annoying...everything in the repos looks fine..yet the problem persists on both amd64 and i386
[07:10] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[07:11] <nixternal> howdy Tonio_
[07:11] <Tonio_> hey nixternal :)
[07:12] <nixternal> kdelibs5 depends on kdelibs5 (= 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu1); however: Version of kdelibs5 on system is 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu2.
[07:12] <nixternal> apache|mobile: ^^
[07:12] <nixternal> I just downloaded the .deb and tried to install it with dpkg
[07:12] <nixternal> and why would kdelibs5 depend on itself? am I missing something
[07:13] <apache|mobile> a very good question
[07:13]  * apache|mobile checks control again
[07:14] <apache|mobile> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, kdelibs5-data (>= ${source:Version}),
[07:14] <apache|mobile>  kde4libs-bin(>= ${binary:Version}), xbase-clients, shared-mime-info,
[07:15]  * apache|mobile checks the deb
[07:15] <apache|mobile> what the f**k
[07:15] <nixternal> my thoughts exactly :)
[07:23] <nixternal> I just did a debdiff and nothing is different that I can see that would cause problems
[07:25] <nixternal> hrmm, what about shlibs.local?
[07:30] <apache|mobile> yeah
[07:30] <apache|mobile> well
[07:30] <apache|mobile> there is an issue
[07:30] <apache|mobile> stdin: pling pling
[07:31] <apache|mobile> nixternal: in the rules we pass a >= depends for kdelibs5 to makeshlibs ... in common-binary-fixup-arch we seem to override this again
[07:32] <nixternal> I wonder if it should be > instead of >> in rules for the fixup-arch?
[07:35] <apache|mobile> might be
[07:35] <stdin> apache|mobile: early morning-pong
[07:38] <apache|mobile> stdin: hehe, good morning, need to compile kdelibs first, then I'll come back on you :P
[07:38] <apache|mobile> there is some issue with the shlibs generation
[07:38] <apache|mobile> which causes kdelibs to depend on the lower version
[07:38] <stdin> ahh, I so I see through my blurry eyes
[07:38] <apache|mobile> lower = version before current building version
[07:39] <stdin> doesn't effect the gutsy users because of .... " --- Topic for #launchpad is PPA appears to be not accepting uploads " :p
[07:40] <apache|mobile> scru gutsy :P
[07:42] <stdin> I don't think ">>" will solve the problem, that'll just add the new info after the old. I'd try removing shlibs.local before upload/build
[07:42] <stdin> but that's still a guess ;)
[07:42] <apache|mobile> well, I need compiled sources for proper testing, and since for some reason my old build is b0rked I need to rebuild kdelibs -.-
[07:42] <apache|mobile> yet another half hour wasted
[07:46]  * apache|mobile starts singing
[09:26] <stdin> well, looks like removing shlibs.local works
[09:42] <blizzzek> hi
[09:51] <_StefanS_> morning!
[09:56] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: hey
[09:58] <apache|mobile> nixternal: pling pling
[09:58] <apache|mobile> maybe another pling
[09:58] <Nightrose> morning :)
[09:58] <Nightrose> apache|mobile: what was it about your teacher and lax and lachs? ;-)
[09:59] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: Sie hat gemeint: im Personalmangement sollte man kein laxes verhalten dulden, und irgednwie hat das die ganze klasse lachsig verstanden
[09:59] <Nightrose> hehe
[10:08] <Nightrose> apache|mobile: you might want to have a look at http://matt.rogers.name/blog/2008/01/13/three-things-about-kopete-in-kde4/
[10:18]  * apache|mobile is all busy
[10:19] <apache|mobile> anyone having bug 182452 ?
[10:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182452 in kdebase-workspace "ksysguard missing dependency to ksysguardd" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182452
[10:19] <apache|mobile> errr
[10:19] <apache|mobile> bug 182077
[10:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182077 in meta-kde4 "multiple desktop-icons in kde4" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182077
[10:36] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: !
[10:37] <Nightrose> ?
[10:37] <Nightrose> wasup apache|mobile? ;-)
[10:37] <Nightrose> wasn´t me!
[10:38] <apache|mobile> bug 182077
[10:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182077 in meta-kde4 "multiple desktop-icons in kde4" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182077
[10:38] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: do you suffer from such a thing
[10:38] <Nightrose> I had that once at the beginning - might have been a stupid mistake by me
[10:38] <Nightrose> never again since
[10:40] <Nightrose> afk
[10:50] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: well there is a structural problem in the desktop containment code
[10:55] <Nightrose> apache|mobile: and that means/leads to what?
[11:03] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: that I should fix it, but I can't reproduce :P
[11:03] <Nightrose> hehe I see
[11:08] <Riddell> anyone got internet exploder to hand?
[11:08]  * stdin marks bug 182452 as invalid
[11:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182452 in kdebase-workspace "ksysguard missing dependency to ksysguardd" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182452
[11:09] <stdin> erm, not that one
[11:09] <Riddell> that's also invalid :)
[11:09] <stdin> bug #182786
[11:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182786 in meta-kde "KDE4 should not be standard in 8.04 LTS" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182786
[11:09] <Riddell> that too
[11:10] <stdin> it's not just invalid, it's stupid (IMO)
[11:10] <Riddell> probably impolite to say that on the bug :)
[11:11] <stdin> maybe I'm just getting a bit defensive of KDE4, but all I said is that 8.04 will not be LTS
[11:11] <stdin> I do *try* not to feed trolls :)
[11:14] <Mez> *BLINKS* I'm pretty sure dolphin's status bar isn't meant to say "BROKEN TRANSLATION"
[11:14] <Nightrose> hehe yea - seen here as well
[11:14] <apache|mobile> Oo
[11:14] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: using a translation actually?
[11:14] <Nightrose> nope english only here
[11:15] <apache|mobile> very strange
[11:15] <apache|mobile> otherwise I could imagine br0ken translations like for amarok
[11:15] <Mez> <-- uses en_GB
[11:15] <apache|mobile> Mez: try `KDE_LANG=en_US dolphin`
[11:15] <stdin> does it say that from start-up?
[11:15] <apache|mobile> if it doesn't happen that way it's really a translation issue
[11:16] <Mez> still happens
[11:16]  * apache|mobile creates a patch for bug 182077
[11:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182077 in meta-kde4 "multiple desktop-icons in kde4" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182077
[11:16] <Mez> though I have found the issue
[11:18] <iRon> glatzor: ping
[11:24] <Mez> apache|mobile, see bug 182817
[11:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182817 in dolphin ""BROKEN TRANSLATION" shows in status bar for dolphin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182817
[11:25] <apache|mobile> Mez: typo
[11:25] <apache|mobile> KDE_LANG=
[11:26] <apache|mobile> not KDE_LAND=
[11:26] <Mez> oopsta
[11:27] <stdin> KDE Land? now that's an idea :)
[11:27] <apache|mobile> ^_^
[11:27] <apache|mobile> stdin: do you have time to make kdm-kde4 useable? bug 182753
[11:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182753 in kdebase-workspace "kdm-kde4 can't login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182753
[11:27] <apache|mobile> I'll be busy fixing icons and stuff for quite some time
[11:28] <stdin> apache|mobile: I'm not sure how to, I've never use it so I don't know what the problem is with it
[11:29] <apache|mobile> stdin: so use it :P
[11:29] <apache|mobile> from what I have seen is the configuration horribly br0ken
[11:29] <apache|mobile> even welcoming to debian, not kubuntu
[11:29] <apache|mobile> looks really really really bad ;-)
[11:32]  * stdin installs and does the unthinkable: logs out...
[11:32] <apache|mobile> Mez: yeah, well, en_GB is br0ken
[11:32] <apache|mobile> dolphin, does, unlike amarok1, detect this
[11:32] <Mez> hence why I subscribed the ubuntu localisation team
[11:33] <iRon> Riddell: i have IE.. you want to test something?
[11:34] <Riddell> iRon: rather to register something on HPs broken website
[11:34] <apache|mobile> Mez: see bug 106772
[11:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 106772 in amarok "Errors in Amarok's .po file cause issues with unparsed HTML" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/106772
[11:34] <iRon> Riddell: ok
[11:34] <Mez> Riddell, ies4linux
[11:35] <Mez> http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page
[11:35] <Mez> works great here...
[11:35] <Mez> (I have to use ie - I'm a web developer - things break in it!)
[11:51]  * apache|mobile takes the helicopter home :P
[12:04] <Hobbsee> er, which nutter uploaded kde4libs?
[12:05] <Hobbsee> apachelogger__: ping with a cluebat.
[12:06] <stdin> Hobbsee: you referring to kdelibs5-0ubuntu2 depending on kdelibs5-0ubuntu1 ?
[12:07] <Hobbsee> stdin: yup
[12:07] <stdin> Hobbsee: he knows, just needs to remove debian/shlibs.local before upload
[12:08]  * Hobbsee ponders downloading the source just to see the screwup
[12:10] <stdin> Hobbsee: well the file just had http://stdin.pastebin.com/d2358deed (which was right for 0ubuntu1 ;)
[12:10] <wesley> hi guys
[12:11] <Hobbsee> hiya
[12:12]  * Hobbsee dies
[12:12] <wesley> some guys dont wanna know the truth do theyXD
[12:16]  * stdin tries fixing kdm-kde4...
[12:17]  * Hobbsee is sure there should be ways around fixing that in less crackful ways
[12:18] <wesley> http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5561/snapshot9in7.png
[12:19] <stdin> well, it let me login this time, so that a step in the right direction :)
[12:20] <Hobbsee> stdin: so, why's it break for 0ubuntu2?
[12:22] <stdin> Hobbsee: because the shlibs.local file pointed to the 0ubuntu1 version for the libs, which made it seem to think that it needed it
[12:22] <Hobbsee> stdin: but, assuming cdbs doesn't fall over, the current version should always be taken from debian/changelog
[12:23] <Hobbsee> CURRENTVERSION := $(shell head -1 debian/changelog  | sed 's/[^(]*(\([^)]*\)).*/\1/')
[12:23] <Hobbsee> DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_kdelibs5 := -V'kdelibs5 (>= $(CURRENTVERSION)), $(RUNTIME_DEPS)'
[12:23] <stdin> should yet, but didn't. the old file was left intact, removing the shlibs.local before upload made it regenerate with the right info
[12:23] <Hobbsee> might make sense to remove it before build, in the rules file then
[12:24] <stdin> apachelogger__: I know why kdm-kde4 says "Welcome to Debian at (host)", debian/patches/07_kdmrc_defaults.diff hard codes "Debian" replacing "%s"
[12:28]  * Hobbsee ponders fixing it
[12:28] <Hobbsee> stdin: the kde.mk in there is the same across all kde4 packages, isn't it?
[12:29] <stdin> Hobbsee: yeah
[12:42] <apachelogger__> stdin: I actually think this can be set in a config
[12:42] <apachelogger__> stdin: btw, applying our current artwork shouldn't be any problem
[12:43] <apachelogger__> jpatrick: ping
[12:43] <stdin> apachelogger__: well debian (i'm guessing) added 09_genkdm_make.diff so the kdm config files are never generated...
[12:43] <stdin> that's why kdm was failing
[12:44] <Hobbsee> apachelogger__: i've got a fix here, mind if i upload it?
[12:44]  * apachelogger__ always wonders about the debian stuff
[12:44] <apachelogger__> Hobbsee: what package is it?
[12:45] <Hobbsee> apachelogger__: the kde4libs stuff
[12:45] <apachelogger__> hmmm
[12:45] <apachelogger__> Hobbsee: yeah, go ahead, I don't know what to do about the dependency issue anyway
[12:45] <apachelogger__> takes further investigation :|
[12:46]  * Hobbsee is told that dpkg trusts shlibs.local if it exists
[12:46]  * apachelogger__ testbuilds workspace the 3rd time since yesterday
[12:46] <apachelogger__> Hobbsee: well, technically rules should fix the shlibs.local to look properly
[12:46] <apachelogger__> but...
[12:46] <stdin> apachelogger__: should we not run debconf-updatepo so the debconf messages are translated?
[12:46] <apachelogger__> I only tested with debuild -us -uc
[12:46] <apachelogger__> so maybe something strange happens in a chroot
[12:47] <Hobbsee>   kde4libs_4.0.0-0ubuntu3.dsc: done.
[12:47] <Hobbsee>   kde4libs_4.0.0-0ubuntu3.diff.gz: done.
[12:47] <Hobbsee>   kde4libs_4.0.0-0ubuntu3_source.changes: done.
[12:47] <Hobbsee> Successfully uploaded packages.
[12:47] <apachelogger__> stdin: probably
[12:48]  * stdin goes through other lintian warnings...
[12:51] <apachelogger__> meh
[12:51]  * apachelogger__ just caught another patch for workspace -.-
[12:51] <apachelogger__> bah
[12:51]  * apachelogger__ starts kate again
[13:00] <stdin> apachelogger__: I'm guessing kdebase-workspace-dbg should be Arch: any, not Arch: all?
[13:07] <apachelogger__> stdin: pretty much so, yes
[13:08] <stdin> well, this is going to be some changelog entry
[13:10] <apachelogger__> stdin: just throw a debdiff over
[13:10] <apachelogger__> I changed quite some stuff as well
[13:11] <apachelogger__> maintainer changed, no 80 exceeding, kde4ified descriptions, patch for bug 182077 and a patch for an awful crash caused by kickoff
[13:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182077 in meta-kde4 "multiple desktop-icons in kde4" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182077
[13:12] <stdin> apachelogger__: I'm going to have to fudge the debian/rules slightly by commenting out debconf-updatepo in clean::, the debdiff will have a load of .po files if that's not commented out
[13:15] <apachelogger__> hmmm
[13:15] <apachelogger__> where does suse patch kickoff?
[13:16] <sebas> Not sure where exactly, but there's quite some changes in there
[13:16] <sebas> Beineri should know more
[13:16] <apachelogger__> sebas: thx
[13:17] <sebas> yw
[13:26] <Riddell> apachelogger__: kdebase-workspace surely
[13:26] <Riddell> apachelogger__: beineri blogged a week or two back about how to browse their package patches (needs a novell login though)
[13:29] <apachelogger__> Riddell: well, I used the src.rpm
[13:29] <apachelogger__> just didn't find it in the usual factory
[13:29] <apachelogger__> Riddell: how should I get our logo in the package? change the tarball?
[13:38] <sebastian^> good morning folks
[13:39] <Riddell> apachelogger__: well you'd need somewhere for it to go
[13:41] <apachelogger__> Riddell: we probably should open up a bzr thingy then
[13:41]  * apachelogger__ is feeling tierd
[13:41] <apachelogger__> _a lot_
[13:41] <apachelogger__> morning sebastian^
[13:41]  * apachelogger__ gets a coffee
[13:47] <stdin> apachelogger__: http://www.stdin.me.uk/diffs/post-rel/kdebase-workspace_4.0.0-0ubuntu3.debdiff just uncomment the command in debian/rules
[13:50] <apachelogger__> stdin: k, thanks
[13:50]  * apachelogger__ testbuilds with kickoff patches
[13:52] <apachelogger__> stdin: hum, the debdiff seems uncomplete
[13:52] <apachelogger__> only rules, changelog and control are diffed
[13:53] <stdin> dang, what happened there...
[13:57] <stdin> apachelogger__: try again
[13:59] <apachelogger__> stdin: looks better :D
[14:01] <stdin> 09_genkdm_make.diff seemed to be the main reason kdm was failing, I ran genkdmconf-kde4 manually and KDM-kde4 let me login (although the fonts aren't that nice)
[14:02] <stdin> and the user list now doesn't show every user on the system, just "real" users
[14:03] <apachelogger__> awesome
[14:07] <apachelogger__> bah
[14:07] <apachelogger__> I forgot to add the kickoff patches to series -.-
[14:29] <Nightrose> \sh_away: you are giving me a headache @ sms ;-) - the Unifest is on the same day... - but since it´s you I will come to your party *g*
[14:30]  * apachelogger__ never gets invited to any parties
[14:30] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: well didn´t you want to show up here yesterday... :P
[14:30] <Nightrose> then we could have had a party
[14:30] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: ran out of gas
[14:30] <Nightrose> oO
[14:30] <Nightrose> stupid excuses
[14:30] <Nightrose> :P
[14:30] <apachelogger__> nah
[14:31] <apachelogger__> was lost in the middle of nowhere
[14:31] <apachelogger__> in bavaria
[14:31] <apachelogger__> oh
[14:31] <apachelogger__> right
[14:31] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: wir sollen ja deutsch sprechen ;-)
[14:31] <Nightrose> hehe
[14:31] <apachelogger__> *headmeetstable*
[14:31] <Nightrose> ?
[14:32] <apachelogger__> I forgot to install the kickoff debs -.-
[14:32] <Nightrose> oO
[14:32]  * apachelogger__ starts shouting at dpkg for being so slow
[14:37] <apachelogger__> omg
[14:38] <apachelogger__> http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~apachelogger/tmp/kickoffbranding.png
[14:38] <apachelogger__> do I rock or what? :P
[14:38] <Nightrose> hehe you do
[14:38] <Nightrose> cool
[14:39]  * Nightrose just noticed that links don´t work in gwenview... -  will make a screeny for you apachelogger__
[14:41] <apachelogger__> stdin: is the gtk fix from upstream?
[14:43] <stdin> apachelogger__: yeah
[14:43] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: http://www.lydiapintscher.de/tmp -> 5   - when opening your link from konversation
[14:44] <apachelogger__> stdin: ok, to track such stuff easily I think we should use number >50 for upstream fixes
[14:44] <apachelogger__> makes it easier to remove them for .1
[14:45] <stdin> aright, 16_fix_gtk_crash.diff is the only one from upstream
[14:46] <apachelogger__> stdin: I included 2 more :D
[14:46] <apachelogger__> and I have a feeling that more are to follow
[14:46] <stdin> apachelogger__: I meant only one *I included* from upstream :p
[14:46] <apachelogger__> k :P
[14:51] <apachelogger__> lol
[14:51] <apachelogger__> kate is falling apart when opening the debdiff for ubuntu2 -> ubuntu3
[14:56] <daSkreech> Hmm
[14:56] <daSkreech> Gmail seems to not work in khtml4
[14:56] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: you do this by intention, don't you?
[14:57] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: haha not really no
[14:57] <apachelogger__> ...to make me miserable
[14:57] <Nightrose> :/
[14:57] <Nightrose> sorry honey
[14:57] <apachelogger__> yet another 50 bucks that this issue is caused by the gwenview wrapper, don't ask how :P
[14:58] <Nightrose> ok - not really bad for me - just wanted to let you know
[14:58] <Nightrose> I will just open stuff in FF
[14:58] <apachelogger__> Oo
[14:58] <apachelogger__> now that was by intention!
[14:58] <Nightrose> :P
[14:59] <apachelogger__> Riddell: so, what shall I do with the kubuntu.png?
[14:59] <apachelogger__> can't put it in the debian dir
[15:04] <Riddell> apachelogger__: yo can
[15:05] <Riddell> you need to uuencode it
[15:05] <Riddell> and add rules to uudecode (and clean)
[15:05] <Riddell> see kdelibs from kde 3
[15:05] <Riddell> and add sharutils as build-dep
[15:05] <apachelogger__> Riddell: I just hope it won't make the png look horrible :P
[15:06] <Riddell> apachelogger__: it won't change the file
[15:06] <aantipop> i cant add *any* protocol to kopete, is that normal ?
[15:07] <apachelogger__> Riddell: ok
[15:07] <aantipop> (in hardy kde4)
[15:07]  * daSkreech laughs
[15:07] <Riddell> aantipop: no but others are reporting the same thing
[15:07] <daSkreech> Firefox 3 loves KDE4 :)
[15:07] <apachelogger__> my sys is exploding again
[15:07] <apachelogger__> aantipop: mit deutscher übersetzung?
[15:07] <aantipop> Riddell: is that a problem of kubuntu's packages, or a kopete-kde4 problem
[15:07] <aantipop> apachelogger__: ja
[15:08] <apachelogger__> aantipop: versuch mal `kbuildsycoca --noincremental`
[15:08] <apachelogger__> danach eventuell neuanmelden
[15:09]  * apachelogger__ takes his stress ball out
[15:10] <aantipop> apachelogger__: kein erfolg
[15:10] <Riddell> kbuildsycoca4 surely
[15:10] <apachelogger__> d'oh
[15:10] <apachelogger__> aantipop: nochmal mit kbuildsycoca4, sorry
[15:11] <aantipop> i had problems with shortcuts too because of the language switch..but i solved by deleting .kde4
[15:11]  * apachelogger__ is wondering how a language can cause such problems
[15:11] <apachelogger__> oh
[15:11] <apachelogger__> hm
[15:11] <apachelogger__> well
[15:11] <aantipop> brb
[15:11] <apachelogger__> for the plugins it might be caused by some wicked minded translation which makes it unparsable or something
[15:11] <apachelogger__> but for shortcuts
[15:12]  * apachelogger__ throws the stress ball at Nightrose
[15:12] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: honey, can you please paste `cat gwenview-kde4`
[15:13] <aantipop> no success
[15:13] <aantipop> not a big deal, kopete of kde3 works flawless
[15:13] <apachelogger__> well
[15:13] <apachelogger__> aantipop: we need to fix this :P
[15:13] <apachelogger__> aantipop: plz report a bug against kdenetwork-kde4 for now
[15:13] <aantipop> on LP ?
[15:13] <apachelogger__> yep
[15:13] <aantipop> will do
[15:14] <Nightrose> apachelogger__:
[15:14] <Nightrose> lydia@Hel:~$ cat gwenview-kde4
[15:14] <Nightrose> cat: gwenview-kde4: No such file or directory
[15:14] <apachelogger__> Oo
[15:15] <apachelogger__> ah
[15:15] <apachelogger__> sry
[15:15] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: cat `which gwenview-kde4`
[15:16] <aantipop> apachelogger__: was ist der begriff für die protokolle (irc, icq, aim, etc) ? protocols ?
[15:16] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: http://nightrose.pastebin.ca/854737
[15:17] <apachelogger__> aantipop: jo
[15:17] <aantipop> apachelogger__: already filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork-kde4/+bug/182816
[15:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182816 in kdenetwork-kde4 "No connections to choose from in KDE4-Kopete" [Undecided,New]
[15:17] <apachelogger__> thx
[15:18] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: this sux
[15:18] <Nightrose> :(
[15:18] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: can you please check whether you can get an addressbar in gwenview
[15:18] <Nightrose> k
[15:18] <apachelogger__> to check whether it just gets a wrong one or none at all
[15:18] <aantipop> is there a workaround for the problem, that plasma adds the hole stuff in desktop as plasmoids each login ?
[15:19] <apachelogger__> aantipop: just deactivate the icons
[15:20] <zoli2k> Hi! What is the state of KDE4 shortcut bug? One of the KDE 4 developers told, that it was already patched.
[15:20] <apachelogger__> -.-
[15:20] <apachelogger__> zoli2k: can you please provide any reference for that bug
[15:20] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: when opening gwenview with a link from konversation I can get a addressbar when telling gwenview to show it - it is empty
[15:21] <aantipop> apachelogger__: propably this one: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155429
[15:21] <ubotu> KDE bug 155429 in kded "Keyboard shortcuts don't work" [Normal,New]
[15:21] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: groovy
[15:21] <mhb> zoli2k: it could be so, but please be patient as patches from upstream take some time to "flow" downstream to Kubuntu binaries
[15:22] <mhb> zoli2k: meaning we cannot build new KDE4 packages every day (unfortunately :o)
[15:24] <zoli2k> mhb, shure thanks
[15:24] <apachelogger__> mhb: I pretty much do :P
[15:24] <bddebian> Heya
[15:24] <apachelogger__> zoli2k: where does upstream say it is fixed?
[15:25] <mhb> apachelogger__: right ... too bad you can't donate machinepower to specific build tasks
[15:25] <zoli2k> apachelogger__: on #kde channel.
[15:25] <mhb> apachelogger__: that would be awesome, letting my computer build the packages overnight and send the result back to Ubuntu archive
[15:26] <mhb> I guess the blocker is the proprietariness of Launchpad.
[15:26] <apachelogger__> *shrug*
[15:26] <apachelogger__> also
[15:26] <apachelogger__> there is no way to proof your package is useable
[15:26] <apachelogger__> i.e. compiled with latest packages
[15:26] <apachelogger__> or even if it is compiled in a chroot
[15:27] <mhb> apachelogger__: well
[15:27] <mhb> apachelogger__: if the buildd was the same ...
[15:27] <mhb> apachelogger__: and if I was in the "web of trust" buildd's for Ubuntu
[15:28] <Hobbsee> mhb: no, your packages being transferred to the ubuntu archive are blocked for other, non-LP based reasons.
[15:28] <Hobbsee> apachelogger__: or that the libraries aren't on crack, etc.
[15:28] <apachelogger__> right
[15:28] <apachelogger__> crack is a good thing to be on :P
[15:28] <mhb> Hobbsee: meaning? How come the daemon can't do the same thing on LP computers and on mine?
[15:29] <Hobbsee> mhb: apachelogger__: the idea is that you get a reproducable build on any buildd, 100% of the time.
[15:29] <Hobbsee> mhb: because you can have replaced your sbuild/pbuilder, be using strange apps, have internet access at the time, etc.
[15:29] <Hobbsee> mhb: and so won't be certain to get reproducable stuff.
[15:29] <Hobbsee> mhb: oh, and you rpobably *don't* want your machine reimaged every build ;)
[15:30] <aantipop> i found the upstream bug of kopete-kde4 not able to add protocols. how do i link the LP bug to the other ?
[15:30] <Hobbsee> mhb: LP does actually support functionality for that, btw.
[15:30] <Hobbsee> as in, non data-centre buildds.
[15:31] <mhb> Hobbsee: basically, if a task "build KDE4" were sent to two separate buildd's (say one running on my machine and the other on apachelogger's, and the result would be the same, where can it go wrong,
[15:31] <mhb> ?
[15:31] <Hobbsee> mhb: hwo do you know they'd be the same?
[15:31] <mhb> if the daemon is the same and two instances output two identical results (MD5-wise), then it's pretty sensible to expect the result is correct.
[15:31] <mhb> Hobbsee: because we'd install the same software "exactly because of that"?
[15:31] <Hobbsee> but they won't output the same md5sum.
[15:32] <mhb> they would
[15:32] <Hobbsee> why?
[15:32] <Hobbsee> aren't md5sums for tar'ing, etc, based on time?
[15:32] <mhb> probably because 1=1
[15:32] <Hobbsee> which is why 2 different people going from tar.bz2 to tar.gz will get 2 different MD5sums, even though the files are the same?
[15:32] <Hobbsee> er, if they completely untar, then retar
[15:33] <mhb> well, it doesn't have to be based on the date, does it?
[15:33] <mhb> you mean the whole concept crumbles because one implementation of md5sum is time-dependent? is it impossible to implement it in a different way?
[15:33] <Hobbsee> wait, now you're asking to rewrite the entire md5sum specification?
[15:34] <Hobbsee> mhb: the concept really crumbles on the fact that each time, the buildds get reimaged with a set image, and get updated from known-good sources.
[15:34] <mhb> no, I'm saying use a different algorithm if this one is not good for this purpose
[15:34] <Hobbsee> your machine doesn.t
[15:34] <mhb> why not?
[15:34] <mhb> why can't it?
[15:35] <mhb> I'm not saying "open it for everyone", I'm saying "open it for trusted people"
[15:35] <Hobbsee> because you'd probably like your data?
[15:35] <Hobbsee> mhb: the other problem is internet access
[15:36] <mhb> well
[15:36] <Hobbsee> ie, some allowing access to cpan site, some not == different resulting builds.
[15:36] <mhb> if you cached the packages you install, and those *would* be md5 checked on each rebuild...
[15:38] <mhb> Hobbsee: I'm not really getting your last point
[15:38] <mhb> Hobbsee: you have two computers with the identical buildd's connected to the same Internet
[15:38] <Hobbsee> mhb: with the same firewalls
[15:39] <mhb> Hobbsee: umm...
[15:39] <Hobbsee> up to however far gets firewalled.
[15:39] <mhb> Hobbsee: I'm not sure gcc is really browsing the web while I build KDE
[15:39] <Hobbsee> as in, one firewall may block some site that it needs to build.
[15:39] <mhb> Hobbsee: or accessing IRC
[15:40] <Hobbsee> now, what was that lartworthy package from debian that locked up the buildds for a few days, again?
[15:40] <mhb> Hobbsee: if *my* buildd's blocked for a few days, nobody really suffers
[15:40] <Hobbsee> mhb: some things, for eg, use http://cpan.org/ to build.
[15:41] <mhb> Hobbsee: because there would still be the main farm
[15:41] <Hobbsee> which, as it stands, will just muck up the buildds - but it will reliably, the same way each time
[15:41] <mhb> Hobbsee: it's just a way to speed up builds for a) PPAs b) specific packages like KDE4
[15:41]  * Hobbsee notes that debian does it.
[15:41] <Hobbsee> (by accepting binaries)
[15:42] <mhb> well
[15:42]  * Hobbsee notes that there are various bugs along the lines of "how in hell did you get this to build?  ti doesn't build for me"
[15:43] <mhb> I guess it has its disadvantages, but then again ... where's that KDE4 Hardy CD? Oh, it's stuck and someone from Canonical has to take a look at it. My point: being dependent on a company that more or less wants to get rid of you ASAP is not good practice.
[15:44] <aantipop> woah
[15:46] <apachelogger__> last testbuild for workspace
[15:47] <jjesse> wow thats a pretty bold statement mhb
[15:47] <mhb> I understand that the Canonical have better things to do, after all, Ubuntu is their goal, not Kubuntu. But still, being stuck for a month with Hardy testing just because of the fact that the build process is Cathedral-like ...
[15:47] <Hobbsee> sorry, i'm missing where the kde4 hardy cd is canonical's fault?
[15:48] <Hobbsee> it would be nice if cdimage stuff was public, i agree
[15:48]  * apachelogger__ thinks mhb is just grumpy again
[15:48] <mhb> I guess I am :o)
[15:48]  * apachelogger__ gives mhb a stress ball and scuttles off for a cigarette
[15:48] <Hobbsee> but until you have a seedlist that you can feed to cdimage, i really don't see how it's canonical's fault - unless you're faulting them for not creating the seedlist for you.
[15:49] <Hobbsee> canonical has been doing universe-based cds since the beginning of hardy, iirc.
[15:49] <Hobbsee> for ubuntu studio and that
[15:50] <mhb> Hobbsee: I just know what jr told us - it's stuck, and someone from Canonical should take a look at it eventually.
[15:50] <mhb> but I guess he has not done it yet.
[15:51] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i'd be interested to know what you mean by that, as if it's what i think it is, that's long been resolved.
[15:51] <Hobbsee> even with that in the way, you still need a seed list.
[15:51] <mhb> if *we* are to blame, then give me a task that will speed it up and does not depend on anyone from C. approving it or something
[15:52] <Hobbsee> mhb: make us a kubuntu-kde4-desktop seed, then please.
[15:52] <Hobbsee> commit it to bzr, probably in ~kubuntu-members
[15:52] <Hobbsee> you can use the kubuntu-desktop, etc, seeds as examples, and there's some wiki docs on it.
[15:53] <Hobbsee> use germinate to test that it generates the correct stuff
[15:53] <mhb> okay, will do on Wednesday.
[15:53] <Hobbsee> good.
[15:55] <Riddell> Hobbsee: by what?
[15:55] <Hobbsee> Riddell: please read the backscroll for the last ~10 mins
[15:57] <Riddell> Hobbsee: yes, read it, mean by what?
[15:57] <Hobbsee> Riddell: apparently the cds couldn't be made yet?
[15:57] <Hobbsee> due to a cnaonical issue?
[15:58] <Riddell> yes, colin doesn't want me to go making the kubuntu-kde4 seed until he makes the new seed layouts
[15:59] <Hobbsee> oh, thought that was hardy+1
[16:01] <Riddell> no but feel free to ask him if he has an ETA
[16:09]  * Hobbsee goes and asks
[16:15] <nixternal> mornin'
[16:18] <jjesse> mornin
[16:25] <nixternal> finally, I can build the updated webkitkde :)
[16:25] <\sh> moins
[16:26] <Jucato> moinin :)
[16:30] <apachelogger__> ahoy \sh
[16:30] <apachelogger__> stdin: I'll upload workspace now
[16:30] <apachelogger__> and hope we didn't break anything
[16:30] <apachelogger__> debdiff is unreadable
[16:30] <jjesse> evening Jucato
[16:31] <Jucato> jjesse: actually it's morning in here too :)
[16:31] <Jucato> Tue Jan 15 00:31:37 PHT 2008
[16:31] <stdin> apachelogger__: I can imagine, the changelog must be 20+ lines :p
[16:32] <apachelogger__> stdin: 30 or something
[16:32]  * apachelogger__ will never do such a thing again
[16:32] <stdin> well I think we can mark kdebase-workspace as "Done" for now :)
[16:33] <apachelogger__> stdin: well, except for upstream fixes ;-)
[16:34] <apachelogger__> this lagging ain't funny anymore -.-
[16:34]  * apachelogger__ kills some apps
[16:35] <nosrednaekim> hmmm occasionally, kde3 apps don't work in kde4
[16:35] <nosrednaekim> they error out with "Error, couldn't contact klauncher"
[16:36] <nosrednaekim> or rather, "kmail: ERROR : couldn't create slave : cannot talk to klauncher"
[16:37] <nosrednaekim> any clue what I can do to fix this?
[16:38] <apachelogger> stdin: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace
[16:38] <nosrednaekim> after that happens,the kde3 applications won't even work in another WM (like qlwm)
[16:39] <apachelogger> stdin: IMO we should close all the apport crash reports
[16:39] <apachelogger> they are all pre 4.0.0
[16:39] <nosrednaekim> some kde3 apps aren't affected (like konversation)
[16:41] <stdin> apachelogger: I think so too, I've been trying to close bugs from pre-4.0.0 for the last couple days now
[16:42] <stdin> and my karma shows it, 429 in 2 days :p
[16:42] <apachelogger> hehe
[16:43] <stdin> that's one nice changelog entry there :p
[16:44] <apachelogger> totally :D
[16:48] <apachelogger> stdin: can you please close bug 150994 telling to reopen if this still happens in 4.0.0
[16:48] <ubotu> Bug 150994 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/150994 is private
[16:48] <apachelogger> looks dumb if I do it now ;-)
[16:49] <stdin> "private" means I can't ;)
[16:50] <Hobbsee> stdin: you're added
[16:51] <stdin> thanks :)
[16:51] <apachelogger> stupid privateness :P
[16:53] <nixternal> konqi + webkit == buggy
[16:53] <Jucato> oh didn't know you could have private bugs :)
[16:54] <Jucato> nixternal: I thought it was sort of unmaintained?
[16:54] <stdin> Jucato: security bugs are private, so some troll can't read+exploit
[16:54] <Jucato> aaaah ok...
[16:54]  * Jucato stays away
[16:54] <nixternal> Jucato: it is maintained in kdesvn
[16:54] <Riddell> nixternal: no it's not
[16:54] <Riddell> not until qt 4.4 is out
[16:54] <apachelogger> lol
[16:54] <nixternal> ahh
[16:54] <nosrednaekim> ah! figured it out, dcop sometimes dies uncleanly.
[16:54] <nixternal> webkitkde I meant, sorry
[16:55] <nixternal> I can't type in forms when using the plugin
[16:58] <stdin> hmm, how does one generate a /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt ?
[16:59] <stdin> (dget dies because curl errors out on that for https)
[17:02] <stdin> ah-ha, package ca-certificates
[17:02] <MaximLevitsky> maybe update-ca-certificates ?
[17:03] <stdin> still need ca-certificates, as /usr/sbin/update-ca-certificates is in there
[17:03] <stdin> it seems it's not auto-installed
[17:03] <apachelogger> http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~apachelogger/tmp/kickoff.ogg
[17:04] <stdin> nice :)
[17:04] <Riddell> apachelogger: groovy
[17:05] <apachelogger> we need to do something about the desktop files, having the 'FooBar KDE 4' sux big time when running KDE 4
[17:07] <mhb> apachelogger: hmm, why do we have a link to our home page there?
[17:07] <mhb> apachelogger: it seems illogical to me
[17:07] <apachelogger> -.-
[17:07] <apachelogger> mhb: we don't have to
[17:07] <apachelogger> just nice to have it
[17:08] <stdin> it's a quick way to get to kubuntu.org :)
[17:08] <apachelogger> with the all nu faster konqueror.. yeah it is :D
[17:08] <mhb> apachelogger: that's how bloat gets done
[17:08] <apachelogger> so it is bloat
[17:08]  * apachelogger likes bloat
[17:08]  * apachelogger is bloat himself
[17:08] <mhb> apachelogger: you add stuff that nobody really needs, but is "useful" for two or three people
[17:08] <apachelogger> Nightrose: ain't I, honey?
[17:09] <Nightrose> apachelogger: you bloat? nah no way ;-)
[17:09] <apachelogger> mhb: that is how marketing is done
[17:09] <mhb> apachelogger: no
[17:09] <Nightrose> apachelogger: but we love the most bloted app ever, don´t we ;-)
[17:09] <mhb> apachelogger: marketing is when you market something to people that don't have it
[17:09]  * apachelogger throws his stress ball mhb
[17:09] <apachelogger> dude
[17:09] <apachelogger> marketing is....
[17:09] <apachelogger> increase your sellings
[17:09] <apachelogger> in our case increase downloads
[17:10] <apachelogger> to increase downloads you need a good product
[17:10] <Nightrose> mhb: better not get into a discussion about marketing with apachelogger ;-)
[17:10] <apachelogger> to get a good product you need good people
[17:10] <mhb> apachelogger: if you want to help Kubuntu marketing, go ask ryanakca about the kubuntu website thing
[17:10] <apachelogger> to get good people you need to make them urging for your product
[17:10] <mhb> :o)
[17:10] <apachelogger> and final step recurit them
[17:10] <apachelogger> which is ... in our case done... webbased
[17:10] <apachelogger> so the link is serving the higher goal of getting new people, hence make a better product, hence increase downloads
[17:11] <mhb> ever heard of the KISS principle or Einstein's maxim?
[17:11] <apachelogger> KISS does not apply to this
[17:11] <mhb> people who click that link already downloaded Kubuntu
[17:11] <apachelogger> we have the picture anyway
[17:12] <mhb> or they know somebody that can give them a CD for free
[17:12] <apachelogger> whether it is linked or not
[17:12] <apachelogger> doesn't make _any_ difference
[17:12] <mhb> every object makes it slower
[17:12] <apachelogger> hrrr
[17:12] <apachelogger> ultimately
[17:12] <mhb> which raindrop has caused the flood?
[17:12] <mhb> nobody really knows
[17:12] <apachelogger> what you are suggesting is that one shouldnt link a download button on a website
[17:12] <apachelogger> since
[17:13] <apachelogger> the download button already informs the visitor there is something to download
[17:15] <mhb> apachelogger: I am pretty certain that this feature a) is not really useful for our target audience (people who click it already have Kubuntu at home) b) will just make people who click it without purpose angry
[17:16] <mhb> I know I'm having a PES today, but still ... keep it simple
[17:16]  * apachelogger has taken notice of mhb's opinion
[17:16] <mhb> pre-exam syndrome
[17:18] <aantipop> apachelogger: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155256
[17:18] <ubotu> KDE bug 155256 in general "kopete doesn't let add any IM service" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[17:20] <apachelogger> aantipop: wenn ich jetzt noch den ubuntu bug hätte ;-)
[17:20] <apachelogger> ah
[17:20] <apachelogger> ver nice
[17:20] <apachelogger> +y
[17:21] <aantipop> apachelogger: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork-kde4/+bug/182816
[17:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182816 in kdenetwork-kde4 "No connections to choose from in KDE4-Kopete" [Medium,Confirmed]
[17:21] <apachelogger> aantipop: assigned it too me, I'll fix this asap
[17:23] <stdin> with all these fixes, we'll have 4.0.1 before KDE does :p
[17:23]  * apachelogger would like that
[17:23] <apachelogger> we should just improve the backporting to ppa
[17:24] <apachelogger> lots of nice fixes in hardy, but not in gutsy
[17:26] <jjesse> for hardy is there a kde4-desktop?
[17:26] <jjesse> like apt-get install kubntu-kde4-deksotp?
[17:26] <nosrednaekim> jjesse: I think its called "kde4"
[17:26] <nosrednaekim> (at least it is in the PPA)
[17:27] <stdin> it's in hardy, it was in there since before RC2
[17:27] <apachelogger> nosrednaekim: kde4 is all of kde4
[17:27] <jjesse> would that be kde4-core?
[17:27] <apachelogger> kubuntu-kde4-deskop would be a selection of kde4 apps which form kubuntu desktop
[17:28] <apachelogger> jjesse: kde4-core is just minimal kde4 installation
[17:28] <stdin> there isn't a kubuntu specific kubuntu metapackage as yes, no
[17:28] <stdin> s/yes/yet/
[17:28]  * nosrednaekim hides under his rock again
[17:28] <jjesse> i udnerstood, so far hardy what would be the best way to get kde4
[17:28] <apachelogger> apt-get install kde4
[17:29] <apachelogger> installs a complete kde4
[17:29] <stdin> right now, the only difference between getting kde4 on hardy and gutsy is that you don't need backports or PPA in hardy
[17:29]  * apachelogger stops playing with his stress ball
[17:29] <apachelogger> well well
[17:29] <apachelogger> stdin: desktop file crap solution:
[17:29] <apachelogger> we have 3 pockets for desktop files
[17:30] <apachelogger> #1 KDE 4 Apps to be used in KDE 3
[17:30] <apachelogger> e.g. /usr/share/applications-kde4
[17:30] <apachelogger> #2 default XDG path /usr/share/applications (including KDE 3 Apps)
[17:30] <apachelogger> #3 KDE 4 Apps to be used in KDE 4
[17:30] <apachelogger> currently /usr/lib/kde4/share/applications/kde4
[17:31] <apachelogger> KDE3 scans #1 and #2
[17:31] <apachelogger> KDE4 scans #2 and #3
[17:31] <apachelogger> this way KDE 4 doesn't need to use the wrapper scripts
[17:31] <apachelogger> doesn't have the ugly FooBar KDE 4
[17:32] <apachelogger> and it probably also fixes the various krunner issues
[17:32] <apachelogger> on the other hand one still can run $KDE4APP in KDE 3, and it's easy to find in the menu since they have the trailing KDE 4
[17:32] <stdin> what about name conflicts in #2? if 2 apps have the same Name= field?
[17:33] <apachelogger> stdin: needs trying
[17:33] <apachelogger> but I think KDE 4 would use the KDE 4 version then
[17:33] <apachelogger> which kind of makes sense ... you install the KDE 4 version of Kopete, it will start from the version, if you remove it again it will start the KDE 3 version
[17:34] <apachelogger> so from my understanding the fallbacks would be:
[17:34] <apachelogger> for KDE 3: #2 -> #1
[17:34] <apachelogger> for KDE 4: #3 -> #2
[17:34] <stdin> yeah, as long as KDE4 searches /usr/lib/kde4/share/applications/kde4 first, the right app will be started, but how will menus look/behave?
[17:35] <stdin> ie: will it always start the kde4 app if its installed?
[17:35] <apachelogger> yes
[17:35] <apachelogger> for KDE 4 it will
[17:35] <apachelogger> but if you don't intent to use it, it also makes no sense to have it installed IMO
[17:35] <stdin> but there will probably be 2 identical(?) entries
[17:36] <apachelogger> that is what needs testing
[17:36] <apachelogger> but I hope ksycoca is inteligent enough to use it according to a fallback system
[17:36] <apachelogger> if it isn't, we might have to patch something in
[17:37] <mhb> hmm
[17:38] <apachelogger> we might have to patch something eitherway, because however we do it, XDG default has to be scaned, and all the kcm modules that are stored in the kde subdirectory are listed in lost & found
[17:38] <stdin> oh, and what hasn't been backported to gutsy PPA yet (I've done kde4libs, kdepimlibs and kdebase-workspace)?
[17:38] <apachelogger> therefore we might want ksycoca4 to ignore these desktop files
[17:38] <mhb> I'd patch the .desktop files so you can distinguish KDE4 and KDE3 apps
[17:38] <mhb> and launch either of them from the menu
[17:38] <apachelogger> stdin: kdebase-kde4
[17:38] <apachelogger> the others only include icon fixes IIRC
[17:39] <stdin> right, I knew I forgot one
[17:39] <apachelogger> mhb: does only make sense for KDE 3 IMO
[17:40] <mhb> apachelogger: yes, patch the KDE3 .desktop files seems sensible -> it will get out of Kubuntu in the end, and personally, I would try to add as little patches to KDE4 as possible
[17:40] <apachelogger> technically it makes not very much difference if you start a KDE 3 App in KDE 4, not minding the different theme and the increased stability
[17:40] <apachelogger> mhb: we currently change the kde4 desktop files
[17:40] <mhb> hmm. I'd go the other way.
[17:40] <apachelogger> yeah
[17:40] <apachelogger> but
[17:41] <mhb> aber?
[17:41] <apachelogger> kde4.0 will not be all that awesome at hardy times ;-)
[17:41] <apachelogger> not even with my hardcore fix backporting
[17:41] <mhb> nope, that it won't
[17:41] <apachelogger> so I think we should switch for hardy+1
[17:41] <mhb> but I doubt patching KDE3 desktop files would make them hard to launch in KDE3...
[17:42]  * stdin hugs his backport script :)
[17:42] <mhb> seeing Konqueror - KDE3 web browser or Konqueror - KDE web browser
[17:42] <Riddell> I've been meaning to look at how suse does all this
[17:42] <Riddell> apachelogger: that's the plan for when we switch
[17:42]  * apachelogger proposes mhb to become official spy
[17:43] <mhb> Riddell: that's a nice approach, but I again warn against overpatching
[17:43] <Riddell> mhb: what is?
[17:43] <apachelogger> lol
[17:43] <mhb> Riddell: look at how suse does it
[17:43] <apachelogger> suse is having it's own KDE, not really comparable to us :P
[17:43] <mhb> Riddell: they usually solve things by patching as much as possible :o)
[17:45]  * apachelogger takes his stress ball for a walk
[17:50] <alleeHol> mhmm, is pulseaudio hardy, or hardy+1?
[17:51] <mhb> alleeHol: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cleanup-audio-jumble
[17:51] <mhb> alleeHol: says "pulseaudio is installed by default now in current Hardy;"
[17:52] <mhb> alleeHol: "missing things are the changing of non-Gnome apps to use pulse/esd output by default..."
[17:52] <alleeHol> mhb: then my hardy is not current :)
[17:53] <apachelogger> mhb: can't do, until xine 1.2 is out
[17:53] <alleeHol> mhb: okay, I've a look at it.   This, only one app can use alsa is ^%#$
[17:53] <apachelogger> the pulseaudio in pre 1.2 sux
[17:53] <apachelogger> big time
[17:53] <alleeHol> apachelogger: oh :(
[17:53] <alleeHol> apachelogger: is there already a release date for 1.2?
[17:54] <apachelogger> nope
[17:54] <apachelogger> not before hardy most probably
[17:54] <alleeHol> argl
[17:55] <alleeHol> apachelogger: is the PA part localized in xine sources so one could try backport
[17:55] <alleeHol> +?
[17:56] <apachelogger> no chance on backporting
[17:57] <apachelogger> also I dunno whether it is finished/started at all
[17:57] <alleeHol> apachelogger: ok
[17:58] <apachelogger> alleeHol: you might want to talk to Flameeyes in #amarok
[17:58] <apachelogger> he's a xine dev
[18:00] <alleeHol> apachelogger: okay will do.  I'll first check if I remember right that pulse audio has an replacement for libasound2 as this maybe another workaround
[18:06] <jpatrick> apachelogger: pong :p
[18:07] <alleeHol> line 4 - 10: http://hg-mirror.alsa-project.org/alsa-plugins/file/14ac70da1259/doc/README-pulse
[18:46] <alleeHol> mhb, apachelogger: Flameeyes suggests for now: xine -> alsa -> pulse -> alsa -> hw
[18:46] <alleeHol> so start experiment with pulseaudio ...
[18:49] <Riddell>  
[18:49] <nixternal> wow, that is a lot of information to take in all at once :p
[18:53] <alleeHol> err, oh. I mean 'I start ...'
[18:53] <alleeHol> hi toma
[19:00] <yuriy> mornfall: i'm getting "manager/adept_manager: symbol lookup error: manager/adept_manager: undefined symbol: assertFailure" i have no idea what's going on
[19:00] <yuriy> i've tried a clean checkout
[19:13] <yuriy> was kde4 setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH before? i just noticed that it was set. unsetting it didn't solve my problem but adding the path ept was compiled to did, but it was working fine without that before
[19:14] <stdin> take look at the wrapper scripts and startkde script
[19:14] <yuriy> well i'm mostly wondering if it was changed in the last day or two in an update, since i didn't have this problem before
[19:15] <yuriy> but yes konsole-kde4 sets it
[19:15] <stdin> no, we've had to set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH since the 1st pre-release
[19:15] <stdin> /usr/lib/kde4/lib isn't in the normal search path, so it needs to be there
[19:16] <stdin> hmm, since when are "we" collectively known as "Kubuntoids" ?
[19:17] <yuriy> stdin: it shouldn't go in /etc/ld.so.conf.d/ ? would that screw up other things?
[19:18] <stdin> that would stop kde4 apps starting in kde3 (and possibly 4), as /usr/lib is before /usr/lib/kde4/lib
[19:18] <stdin> afaik anyway
[19:19] <stdin> plus we'll eventually have kde4 in /usr rather than /usr/lib/kde4 sometime
[19:22] <apachelogger> hardy+1
[19:23] <toma_> jpatrick: hm, Saturday January 16, 2008 at 23:00 UTC ?
[19:23] <jpatrick> ops :)
[19:24] <jpatrick> toma: fixed
[19:25] <toma> wow, 4 days intervals for the meetings?
[19:25] <claydoh> is the 16 Wed rather?
[19:26] <toma> claydoh: ?
[19:28] <claydoh>  Saturday January 16, 2008,
[19:28] <claydoh> sat is the 19th
[19:28] <apachelogger> turn the 6 around and you get a nine :P
[19:28] <apachelogger> so it's either saturday or wednesday
[19:28] <apachelogger> or maybe both
[19:29] <apachelogger> jpatrick is doing good work on the insanity thing there ;-
[19:29] <apachelogger> )
[19:29] <claydoh> heh
[19:29] <jpatrick> it's this Wednesday 26th January 2008
[19:29] <toma> o noos
[19:29] <jpatrick> 16th*
[19:29] <claydoh> i'll have to drag out my crusty thinkpad and fire up puppylinux
[19:29] <apachelogger> lol
[19:30] <apachelogger> we have 16 vs 19 vs 26
[19:30] <apachelogger> jpatrick: dude, you also need more sleep ;-)
[19:30] <jpatrick> apachelogger: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo <- needs love
[19:30] <claydoh> 6pm  est is the Wife's Time on the Computer
[19:30] <toma> jpatrick: special reason for a meeting 4days after the previous?
[19:30] <apachelogger> stdin: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo <- needs love
[19:31] <jpatrick> toma: we alternatve Sat (11:00)/Wed (23:00)
[19:31] <claydoh> luckily I got that old beast up and running, so i can actually attend a meeting
[19:31] <apachelogger> apache|mobile: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~apachelogger/tmp/kickoffbranding.png
[19:31] <apache|mobile> cool
[19:32] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: you br0ke it
[19:32] <Riddell> could someone test this? http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/minimal.py
[19:32] <Nightrose> apache|mobile: neva eva
[19:32]  * Nightrose just borked her slides 
[19:32] <Nightrose> :/
[19:32] <apache|mobile> haha!
[19:32] <apache|mobile> Nightrose is in breaking mood
[19:32] <apache|mobile> very good
[19:32]  * apache|mobile gets his stress ball
[19:32] <Nightrose> nah _very_ bad
[19:33] <Nightrose> and it seems like I also have to do the kde 4 talk at the release event in stuttgart - not only the talk on open source community
[19:33] <Nightrose> this is going to be fun...
[19:33] <Nightrose> not
[19:34] <jpatrick> Riddell: QMutex::lock: Deadlock detected in thread -1209960256
[19:34] <Riddell> jpatrick: yeah, that's what I get
[19:34] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I can do an interactive talk via web streaming :P
[19:34] <Riddell> I don't understand why, it wasn't happening a couple of weeks ago
[19:35] <tlayton> Riddell:  can't read /var/mail/PyQt4.QtCore
[19:35] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ;-) I think they want someone there to give the talk IRL
[19:35] <apachelogger> they stop bitching and go with me :P
[19:35] <toma> Riddell: for each app ?
[19:36] <apachelogger> Oo
[19:36] <apachelogger> stupid wrapper scripts -.-
[19:37] <Riddell> tlayton: needs python-qt4 and python-qt4-dbus
[19:37] <apachelogger> apache|mobile: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~apachelogger/tmp/kickoffbranding.png
[19:37] <apache|mobile> wtf
[19:38] <Riddell> toma: no just that one when it's trying to connect to dbus
[19:38] <apache|mobile> ha!
[19:38] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: we finally are at the evil roots of our packaging issues
[19:38] <apache|mobile> gwenview(28129) Gwenview::DocumentView::createPartForUrl: Couldn't find a KPart for  "application/octet-stream"
[19:38] <apache|mobile> that ain't good!
[19:38] <Nightrose> apache|mobile: wohooo
[19:38] <Riddell> jpatrick: that on hardy?
[19:39] <toma> Riddell: there is unhelpfull link on techbase about it: http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Getting_Started/Set_up_KDE_4_for_development
[19:39] <toma> see the note
[19:39] <Riddell> toma: found that, it doesn't actually explain what the problem is
[19:39] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: or maybe gwenview is just b0rked
[19:39] <Nightrose> :/
[19:40] <jpatrick> Riddell: gutsy
[19:40] <yuriy> is this deadlock thing running something as root?
[19:40] <yuriy> cause i get that error trying to run adept (though mhb said he didn't get it)
[19:40] <Riddell> yuriy: no, it's just connecting to the system bus
[19:41] <apachelogger_> meh
[19:43] <apachelogger> Nightrose: too bad, it's an upstream issue
[19:44] <Nightrose> apachelogger: well doesn´t make much of a differenze for me does it? ;-)
[19:44] <apachelogger> Nightrose: yeah, takes longer until I fix it :P
[19:44] <Nightrose> hmm right
[19:44] <Nightrose> well I can live with it for now
[19:45] <apachelogger> but I can't
[19:45]  * apachelogger fixes locally :P
[19:50] <tikal26> I don;t know if this is the right place to report this, but since I updated the new libplasma it crashes alot
[19:51] <tikal26> I used kde4 since friday, saturday, sunday and nothing crashed , but since upgrading the new packages it cracsehs alot
[19:51] <apachelogger> tikal26: what kubuntu version?
[19:52] <tikal26> gutsy
[19:52] <apachelogger> hm
[19:52] <Lure> jpatrick: kubuntu meetings are bi-weekly, so next one should be next week and not this Wed
[19:52] <apachelogger> there shouldn't have been any changes to these packages
[19:52] <apachelogger> stdin: did you change something?
[19:52] <tikal26> I get no raceback. Do I need to install something to get traceback
[19:52] <apachelogger> technically yes, but the package dependencies are br0ken, so currently you can't
[19:53] <tikal26> No I only did apttiude safe upgrade and I think it was 9 packges of kdeli5 and libplasma
[19:53] <apachelogger> strange
[19:53] <apachelogger> tikal26: do the crashes happen random?
[19:53] <apachelogger> or if you do something specific
[19:53] <stdin> apachelogger: no, just got the one you uploaded and backported to the PPA
[19:53] <Riddell> jpatrick: do you get the same thing in qdbusviewer (from qt4-dev-tools, running as root)?
[19:54] <apachelogger> stdin: are they built yet?
[19:54] <tikal26> they seemed to be happening randomed, but they always happened when I try to include a generic icon to the panel
[19:54] <apachelogger> tikal26: well, stdin uploaded the new package versions to the KDE 4 ppa, so you should get quite some updates soon (which might fix some of the plasma crashes)
[19:55] <stdin> apachelogger: no, PPAs are being slow
[19:55] <apachelogger> hehe
[19:55] <apachelogger> tikal26: also when they are available you can install kdebase-workspace-dbg
[19:55] <apachelogger> which is the package for the debub symbols
[19:55] <apachelogger> then you should be able to get a backtrace
[19:55] <jpatrick> Riddell: yes
[19:55] <tikal26> ok, I also get a crash when I ry click on the genreic icon plasmoid  type tool
[19:56] <stdin> apachelogger: 14:41 I got the confirmation email..., uploaded at 18:05
[19:56] <apachelogger> tikal26: also, please check back with me or have a deep look into KDE's bug tracker before you report a bug
[19:56] <stdin> *19:41
[19:56] <jpatrick> Lure: aha /me corrects
[19:56] <apachelogger> tikal26: hehe, the generic icon shouldn't really be used
[19:56] <apachelogger> KDE just forgot to hide it
[19:56] <tikal26> so how do I add non kde apps tot he panel that are not on the menu
[19:57] <tikal26> I don´t see a kmenuedit for kde4 on kubuntu packages either
[19:58] <stdin> kdebase-workspace-bin: /usr/lib/kde4/bin/kmenuedit
[19:58] <apachelogger> tikal26: should be in kdebase-workspace-bin
[19:59] <tikal26> ok maybe I need to take a close look at the pacakges install I think I am missing some pacakges
[20:00] <stdin> if you install kde4-core, that's all you need
[20:00] <tikal26> I have that
[20:00] <blueyed> http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.php says "Install kde4-core", but above I've read "kde4" now.. - shouldn't that be mentioned on kubuntu.org, too?
[20:00] <stdin> blueyed: where have you read "kde4"?
[20:01]  * stdin notes it _should_ be "kde4-core" unless you want the *whole* of kde4
[20:01] <blueyed> stdin: [18:28] <apachelogger> apt-get install kde4
[20:02] <stdin> don't listen to him, he's bloatware :p
[20:02] <apachelogger> right :P
[20:02] <blueyed> stdin: :D But why wouldn't you want the whole?
[20:02] <stdin> because it's a huge download
[20:02] <jjesse_> kde4 is a lot more then kde4-core
[20:02] <apachelogger> stdin: anything bugs for kdegraphics I should have a look at?
[20:02] <apachelogger> 'anything bugs' Oo
[20:03]  * apachelogger gets his stress ball again
[20:03] <apachelogger> pfft
[20:03] <stdin> I haven't heard any bugs on that, and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdegraphics-kde4 seems clear (when I close that last bug)
[20:04] <apachelogger> xRaich[o]2x: ping
[20:04] <alleeHol> s/kde4-core/kde4-standard/   s/kde4/kde4-for-fast-downlinks/ ?
[20:05] <stdin> alleeHol: erm, no :p
[20:05] <buz> even with a fast link, i dont want my menus polluted with tons of stuff i never ever look at
[20:05] <stdin> alleeHol: it has the same packages as the normal "kde", "kde-core", "kde-amusements" etc
[20:06]  * buz curses intel
[20:07] <apache|mobile_> stdin: do you think I should wait with the upload?
[20:07] <apache|mobile_> only introduced one patch wich makes remote urls work with gwenview
[20:08] <tikal26> ok I found the problem form kickoff it looks in /usr/share.applications rather than /usr/lib/kde4/kmenuedit
[20:08] <stdin> apache|mobile_: nah, upload away
[20:08]  * apache|mobile_ goes for it
[20:08] <apache|mobile_> tikal26: huh?
[20:08]  * stdin points tikal26 at /usr/share/applications/kde4-kmenuedit.desktop
[20:09] <apache|mobile_> nah
[20:09] <apache|mobile_> -(~/kde4/graphics/3/kdegraphics-kde4-4.0.0:$)-> kmenuedit-kde4
[20:09] <apache|mobile_> bash: kmenuedit-kde4: command not found
[20:10] <apache|mobile_> tikal26: please report a bug, kdebase-workspace doesn't create a kmenuedit wrapper script
[20:10] <tikal26> stdin- it points there but it cannot find it I get the erro meessage
[20:10] <stdin> so I see
[20:10] <apache|mobile_> stdin: I hate it when our scripts disturbe the kde 4 workflow :P
[20:11] <tikal26> ok I will do that in launchapad Iw as not sure if it was a kubutnu or kde but
[20:13] <apachelogger> jpatrick: ah, now I remember what I wanted... can you please get backports of projectm and libvisual-projectm?
[20:17] <apachelogger> Nightrose: honey, I has a working package :)
[20:19] <nosrednaekim> 0.o
[20:19] <Nightrose> apachelogger: wohooo - hero ;-)
[20:21] <jpatrick> apachelogger: consider it done
[20:22] <apachelogger> you know
[20:22] <apachelogger> it's quite some effort to get the bot always in and out :P
[20:22] <apachelogger> jpatrick++
[20:22] <apachelogger> stdin++
[20:23] <apachelogger> apachelogger++
[20:23] <apachelogger> :P
[20:23] <jpatrick> apachelogger++
[20:25] <apachelogger> Nightrose: für zukünftige probleme bitte einen bug report erstellen und mich subscriben, macht es einfacher für mich arbeit zu verteilen
[20:25] <Nightrose> aiai sir ;-)
[20:25] <Artemis_Fowl> lol
[20:26] <nosrednaekim> Nightrose: speekenze deutsch!
[20:28] <jpatrick> apachelogger: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/projectm ?
[20:29] <Nightrose> nosrednaekim: hehe ich werde es versuchen
[20:29]  * nosrednaekim resorts to babelfish
[20:29] <jpatrick> Nightrose: und ich auch
[20:29] <Nightrose> ;-)
[20:29] <nosrednaekim> this word is......a german curse?
[20:29] <apachelogger> sorry
[20:30] <apachelogger> jpatrick: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libprojectm
[20:30] <Nightrose> nosrednaekim: nah I was just saying that I will try
[20:30] <nosrednaekim> oh :)
[20:30] <apachelogger> Die Idee war ja den channel mit Deutsch zu fl00den :P
[20:30] <apachelogger> s/channel/Kanal
[20:31] <jpatrick> Jucato's Schuld
[20:31] <apachelogger> Ja
[20:31] <k0m0d0> hello. sorry for interrupting :) did anyone saw LP Bug #182501 ? May be there's a quick fix ? :)
[20:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182501 in kde4libs "KDE4 applications cannot load their plugins" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182501
[20:31] <apache|mobile_> stdin: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdegraphics-kde4/ plz throw it in the ppa, so that Nightrose gets a working gwenview at some point :D
[20:32] <Nightrose> yay for working gwenview ;-)
[20:33]  * jpatrick tries to throw qca-plugins-ossl into ppa
[20:33] <apache|mobile_> k0m0d0: nice catch, just already fixed :P
[20:35] <jpatrick> ok, we should have working kopete jabber  soon
[20:35] <apache|mobile_> wooohooo
[20:36] <apache|mobile_> any pending patches for kdenetwork?
[20:36]  * apache|mobile_ should fix the desktopfiles so that german users can at least partly use kopete ;-)
[20:36] <nosrednaekim> hooooray for jabber in kopete
[20:36]  * nosrednaekim kicks psi
[20:36] <k0m0d0> apache|mobile: nice, is the package available? I've just updated Hardy but I still have the issue
[20:36] <jpatrick> not that I know of
[20:36] <apache|mobile_> k0m0d0: should be already, lemme check
[20:37] <stdin> I've got this backporting down to 2 steps now 1) backport -ppa -s "Resync with Hardy" 2) dput kde4 ../<blah>.changes :)
[20:37] <apache|mobile_> k0m0d0: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-kde4/4:4.0.0-0ubuntu4
[20:37] <apache|mobile_> should be available already
[20:37] <Nightrose> wohooo @ jabber in kopete  /me kicks google talk in gmail ;-)
[20:38] <apache|mobile_> stdin: very nice :D
[20:38] <stdin> -ppa makes the ~ppa1 bit at the end and -s tells it to run debuild -S for me :D
[20:39] <stdin> the rest get's passed to dch
[20:39] <apache|mobile_> hmmm
[20:39] <apache|mobile_> I also have a pending fix for kdelibs
[20:39] <nosrednaekim> busy busy people...
[20:39] <stdin> http://stdin.pastebin.com/d71cb4fea < for anyone who cares
[20:39] <apache|mobile_> can someone please go search bugs? :P
[20:39] <apache|mobile_> I need 1 more for kde4libs and 1 foor kdenetwork-kde4
[20:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[20:40] <k0m0d0> another thing (because I've managed to get your attention)... but may be allready solved :)
[20:41] <jpatrick> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/3566/ \o/
[20:41] <k0m0d0> in 7.10 and 8.04 I'm having an issue with KDE4 Kppp: Login ID and Password text boxes are locked
[20:41] <apache|mobile_> k0m0d0: I rather read 10 duplicated bug reports than none reports any ;-)
[20:41] <jpatrick> love line 8
[20:41] <apache|mobile_> rofl
[20:41] <apache|mobile_> k0m0d0: might be a packaging issue
[20:41]  * apache|mobile_ checks
[20:43] <apache|mobile_> k0m0d0: works for me
[20:43] <apache|mobile_> plz ensure that both account and modem are configured (properly)
[20:43] <Riddell> Tonio_: hi
[20:45]  * apache|mobile_ notes that working with a fast built KDE 4 is so much more fun
[20:45] <k0m0d0> apache|mobile: I've managed to create an account, and the modem is configured correctly. If from my KDE 4 session I lounch KDE 3 Kppp as a su it works fine (a simpe #su kppp)
[20:46] <k0m0d0> simple*
[20:46] <nosrednaekim> yeah... is debugging still turned on in all the debs?
[20:46] <apache|mobile> nosrednaekim: nope debug stuff is in -dbg packages
[20:46] <nosrednaekim> ok
[20:47] <apache|mobile> k0m0d0: has to be some configuration issue http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot63.jpg
[20:49] <k0m0d0> apache|mobile: ok. thanks. carry on with your great work :))
[20:49] <stdin> apache|mobile: -workspace failed on am64 (and lpia) "cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//usr/bin/plasma-kde4': No such file or directory"
[20:49] <apache|mobile> Oo
[20:49] <apache|mobile> cool thing
[20:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: I thought there was a bug arround kdelibs5 package, but it's already fixed :)
[20:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: currently fixing bugs arround kcmsamba...
[20:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know nobody minds, but I think it's important to fix them :)
[20:51] <Tonio_> and on friday, I'll finish the apt:/ protocol thing
[20:51] <Riddell> kcmsamba could be a bottomless pit of bugs
[20:52] <Tonio_> yeah but there are people in companies using it, that sent us a couple of bugs.....
[20:52]  * apache|mobile notes that ark is b0rked
[20:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know the kcmsamba is a hudge "to be removed" thing :)
[20:53] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: what poblem with ark ? appart from the very old code, it seems to work pretty correctly on hardy ;)
[20:54] <apache|mobile> Tonio_: the kde4 version?
[20:54] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: no, I'm only using and working on kde3 atm
[20:54] <apache|mobile> k
[20:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: couple of bugs to fix on katapult too
[20:54] <apache|mobile> well, the kde4 version can't open compressed files
[20:55] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: pretty annoying indeed :)
[20:55] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: I really hope that ark on kde4 will be better than the kde3 version
[20:56] <apache|mobile> stdin: it seems to be processed differently on amd64
[20:56] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: graphical compression tools are probably the most limited tools on linux distros compared to what exists in the windows or osx world....
[20:56] <apache|mobile> strange thing
[20:56]  * Tonio_ dreams of a izarc or winrar like for kde/gnome
[20:57] <stdin> apache|mobile: I'm thinking it's something to do with binary-arch and binary-idep builds, but /me is guessing
[20:58] <xRaich[o]2x> apachelogger: pong
[20:58] <apache|mobile> stdin: technically, we would have to add the for loops to all custom installs
[20:59] <apache|mobile> xRaich[o]2x: closed a bug of yours :P
[20:59] <apache|mobile> Oo
[20:59] <apache|mobile> wtf
[20:59] <xRaich[o]2x> apache|mobile: nice :)
[20:59] <apache|mobile> krunner can't even crash properly
[20:59]  * apache|mobile gets his stress ball
[21:00] <xRaich[o]2x> apache|mobile: thanks for the effort ;)
[21:00]  * xRaich[o]2x watches lost again
[21:00] <apache|mobile> lol
[21:00]  * apache|mobile is wondering why common-post-build-arch doesn't kick in
[21:00] <apache|mobile> stdin: that issues is way too weird
[21:01] <apache|mobile> oh cool
[21:01] <apache|mobile> stdin: Cannot create target directory /usr/lib/kde4/etc/kde4/kdm: Permission denied
[21:01] <stdin> apache|mobile: adding a +install/kdebase-workspace-bin:: rule with all the cat/sed magic may help
[21:02] <apache|mobile> line 14609 of the amd64 log
[21:02] <apache|mobile> stdin: yeah
[21:02] <apache|mobile> but
[21:02] <apache|mobile> kdebase-workspace-data was always first processee
[21:02] <apache|mobile> that's why the whole crap is located there
[21:03] <nosrednaekim> ugg! we have lost asiego!
[21:07] <apache|mobile> nosrednaekim: ?
[21:07] <nosrednaekim> http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/01/release-event-prep.html
[21:08] <apache|mobile> ohnoes
[21:08] <apache|mobile> only now that I get really active :P
[21:09] <mhb> what?
[21:09] <mhb> you really get me started today :o)
[21:10] <nosrednaekim> ;)
[21:10] <stdin> apache|mobile: hmm, looks like you didn't apply the new 07_kdmrc_defaults.diff, it's in debian/patches/07_kdmrc_defaults.diff-suppe but series has the orig
[21:10] <stdin> (that's not the reason it's not building, another issue ;)
[21:10] <apache|mobile> hm, are you sure it's not the other way round?
[21:10]  * apache|mobile can imagine -suppe might be a backup of the old one
[21:11] <stdin> apache|mobile: -suppe is the one I did, has no mention of "Debian" in it
[21:11] <mhb> let's remind ourselves who we are making Kubuntu for: a) the users who want a easy to install, easy to work with KDE distro. b) ourselves. Upstream developers are tourists, and no distro can hold them. And why should it? Better keep on Kubuntu rocking for the ex-Windows users.
[21:11] <apache|mobile> stdin: ok, will fix this
[21:11] <apache|mobile> but
[21:11] <mhb> and for ourselves.
[21:11] <apache|mobile> stdin: as for the ftbs
[21:12] <apache|mobile> I think there is something wrong with the build chroot
[21:12] <stdin> apache|mobile: I'm working on it (that's why I noticed)
[21:12] <apache|mobile> stdin: so you fix it and just send me the debdiff :P
[21:12] <nosrednaekim> mhb: I know :)
[21:12] <stdin> apache|mobile: when I figure it out, yeah :P
[21:12] <apache|mobile> stdin: why do we even repeat the for loops in install/kdebase-workspace-data::?
[21:13] <apache|mobile> common-post-build-arch should be called eitherway
[21:13] <apache|mobile> AFAIK
[21:13] <stdin> apache|mobile: I don't know, cdbs is still a bit of a puzzle to me
[21:15] <Tonio_> re
[21:15] <Tonio_> just playing with kde4
[21:15] <Tonio_> how to you add a widget to the panel
[21:15] <Tonio_> I think it's possible no ?
[21:15] <stdin> click+drag to the panel
[21:15] <apache|mobile> Riddell: ping
[21:15] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: drag directly from the add applet box
[21:15] <Tonio_> hum doesn't work for me....
[21:15] <Tonio_> ahhhhhhhhhh
[21:15] <Tonio_> from the add applet ?
[21:15] <stdin> yeah, not from the desktop
[21:16] <Riddell> apache|mobile: mm
[21:16] <Tonio_> stdin: not very easy to guess
[21:16] <stdin> Tonio_: too intuitive?
[21:16] <Tonio_> btw, the changes are impressive comparing with rc2 :)
[21:17] <Tonio_> also, the sounds are HORRIBLE _
[21:17] <Tonio_> those will have to be removed
[21:17] <apache|mobile> Riddell: building of -workspace fails on amd64, even though we create the missing file in common-post-build-arch ... however somehow common-post-build-arch doesn't get called, do we do something wrong or might it be a buildd problem? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11338745/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-amd64.kdebase-workspace_4:4.0.0-0ubuntu3~gutsy1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[21:17] <apache|mobile> Riddell: breaks in line 14706
[21:17] <Riddell> apache|mobile: is this a new thing?
[21:17] <apache|mobile> Riddell: the breakage?
[21:18] <Riddell> yes
[21:18] <apache|mobile> kinda
[21:18] <apache|mobile> Riddell: probably some regression, but I'm wondering why common-post-build-arch doesn't kick in
[21:19] <Tonio_> but yeah, it's becoming respectable desktop manager :)=
[21:19] <Riddell> apache|mobile: that usually happens after install
[21:19]  * nosrednaekim likes the sounds
[21:19] <Riddell> apache|mobile: but what's changed?
[21:20] <apache|mobile> Riddell: I think I changed the package whe create the wrappers in
[21:20] <yuriy> Tonio_: the sounds are much better than kde3 ones IMO, but sound notifications are annoying in general
[21:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: remember where's the suse icon I have to remove in the new kmenu
[21:21] <Riddell> Tonio_: pardon?
[21:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: we discussed about that on saturday during the meeting
[21:22]  * apache|mobile goes debugging this build issue
[21:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: I think Lure talkied about that opensuse icon....
[21:22] <Tonio_> Lure: you there ? ;)
[21:22] <Riddell> apache|mobile: before it was binary-install/kdebase-workspace:: why change it
[21:22] <Riddell> apache|mobile: you can test this locally with debuild -B
[21:23] <Riddell> Tonio_: apache|mobile has been adding logos to the menu
[21:23] <alleeHol> he, cool mixture: kaffein, amarok, aplay, paplay, artsplay, kdenotification  together with pulsaaudio server
[21:23] <nixternal> after beating the hell out of kde4 these past couple of days, I have to say I am impressed with your package foo, as it has been stable, no crashes on my laptop, only annoyance is white screen at login and having to refresh the wallpaper
[21:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: ho great, forgetting about that then
[21:23] <nosrednaekim> +100 nixternal
[21:24] <mhb> rock on KDE4 packagers!
[21:25] <Tonio_> did someone notice it is possible to move an application directly from the pager applet
[21:25] <Tonio_> ?
[21:25] <Tonio_> that's nice ;)
[21:26] <nosrednaekim> couldn't you always do that?
[21:26] <selckin> yup
[21:27] <apache|mobile> wtf
[21:31] <nixternal> Tonio_: did you get what you were looking for with the kickoff icon?
[21:31] <Tonio_> hum systemsettings seems to hang when going to the Desktop section
[21:32] <Tonio_> nixternal: apache|mobile already did it
[21:32] <apache|mobile> <-- ze king :P
[21:32] <nixternal> groovy... you took the opensuse patch then I take it?
[21:32] <apache|mobile> Oo
[21:32] <apache|mobile> omg
[21:32] <Tonio_> I hoped they would simplify the "window behavior" menu
[21:32] <Tonio_> too many options there....
[21:32] <Tonio_> way to many
[21:32] <apache|mobile> omg
[21:32] <apache|mobile> wwooohoooo
[21:32] <nixternal> openSUSE has some really nice Kickoff patches btw
[21:32]  * apache|mobile throws away the stress ball
[21:32] <apache|mobile> ~order party
[21:33]  * insanity gives everyone a party hat and a hand full of conffeti.
[21:33]  * insanity turns on tha most funky party music as well as the all shiny disco ball.
[21:33] <insanity> apache|mobile: wanna dance with me? :-)
[21:33]  * insanity starts shaking his tight ass
[21:33] <nixternal> wth?
[21:33]  * Nightrose wonders what apache|mobile just did...
[21:33]  * nixternal too
[21:33] <apache|mobile> nixternal: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~apachelogger/tmp/kickoff.ogg
[21:33] <nixternal> ya, that worked
[21:33] <apache|mobile> stdin: dude, change the common-post-build-arch to common-install-arch
[21:34] <apache|mobile> stdin: then you can remove the for loops in install/kdebase-workspace-data
[21:34] <apache|mobile> common-install-arch kicks in after cdbs finished with it ... ie when all files are in debian/tmp
[21:35] <apache|mobile> so we have yet another transition to do :P
[21:35] <nixternal> OK, why can't I see video from your ogg apache|mobile?
[21:35] <Tonio_> is it required to restart kde4 when activating desktop effetcts ?
[21:35] <apache|mobile> nixternal: you have to use xine
[21:35] <nixternal> I just get a white noise sound
[21:35] <nixternal> ahh
[21:35] <jpatrick> apachelogger++
[21:35] <apache|mobile> Tonio_: nope
[21:35] <apache|mobile> but
[21:35] <apache|mobile> Tonio_: there is a black/whitelist
[21:35] <apache|mobile> so if it's known that your chip will not work, desktop effects will not start
[21:36] <apache|mobile> nixternal: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~apachelogger/tmp/kickoffbranding.png
[21:36] <apache|mobile> there you have a screnie :P
[21:36] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: well, they worked before.....
[21:37] <apache|mobile> Tonio_: then you might have br0ken something :P
[21:37] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: where's the blacklist ?
[21:37] <apache|mobile> which is really easy ;-)
[21:37] <apache|mobile> Tonio_: no clue
[21:37] <apache|mobile> never had a look into this
[21:37] <apache|mobile> I just know it from the commit messages
[21:37] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: bah......dunno what
[21:38] <apache|mobile> stdin: maybe we should open a bzr thingy to keep a todo ;-)
[21:38] <stdin> apache|mobile: maybe :p
[21:38] <nixternal> apache|mobile: using xine and it still doesn't work
[21:39] <apache|mobile> nixternal: well, don't worry, it's a br0ken ogg for some reason
[21:39] <apache|mobile> stupid recordmydesktop bug I'd say
[21:39] <nixternal> lol
[21:39] <nixternal> not pebkac? :p
[21:40] <apache|mobile> nah
[21:40] <jpatrick> apache|mobile: qca2-plugin-ossl_0.1~20070904-3~gutsy1~ppa1_i386.changes built!
[21:40] <apache|mobile> read quite some stuff about it
[21:40] <apache|mobile> luckily recordmydesktop is not in kde4, hence I don't do deep investigation :P
[21:40] <apache|mobile> woohooo
[21:40] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: it looks like they completly disabled effects for ati driver :/
[21:40] <apache|mobile> cool
[21:40] <apache|mobile> some things are just strange
[21:40] <apache|mobile> really
[21:41] <mhb> apache|mobile: is that "user kubuntu4 on osiris" also an OpenSUSE patch?
[21:41] <apache|mobile> Tonio_: well workaround it and test, if it works they might unblacklist your chip/driver version ;-)
[21:41] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: how to ?
[21:41] <apache|mobile> mhb: no, that's a default feature, did you never notice it?
[21:42] <apache|mobile> Tonio_: probably patching around in the source
[21:42] <mhb> I don't think I use kickoff
[21:42] <Tonio_> apache|mobile: argh !
[21:42] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: which ati driver?
[21:42] <mhb> and no, I have not noticed it when I ran it, strange.
[21:42] <tlayton> are there going to be any kde3 to kde4 conversion/import tools?  for instance, import kopete and kmail settings,
[21:42] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: fglrx
[21:42] <apache|mobile> lol
[21:42] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: which version?
[21:42] <apache|mobile> stdin: you might want to backport network to ppa, now that we have a qca2-plugin-ossl there
[21:43]  * apache|mobile takes his stress ball for a walk
[21:43] <wesley> how can you install a font ?
[21:43] <wesley> in kde4
[21:43] <jpatrick> and backports version is still pending
[21:43] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: xorg-driver-fg 1:7.1.0-7-11+2
[21:43] <mhb> apache|mobile: I just wonder how useful it is to tell the user who he is
[21:43] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: ubuntu packages....
[21:43] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: ok... so one that supports AIGLX
[21:44] <Tonio_> yep
[21:44] <mhb> the computer should also remind me that I am a human being, I guess... I thought we're past that "you typed A" messages.
[21:44] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: thats odd because it works perfectly for me
[21:45] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: maybe I have a problem
[21:46] <Nightrose> mhb: it might be useful on shared computers
[21:46] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: did you just try enabling it? or are you saying its not enabled by default
[21:46] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim:
[21:46] <Tonio_> % fglrxinfo                                                                                                                                                 [0.20 0.37 - 41% 4%]
[21:46] <Tonio_> display: :0.0  screen: 0
[21:46] <Tonio_> OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc.
[21:46] <Tonio_> OpenGL renderer string: ATI Mobility Radeon X1600
[21:46] <Tonio_> OpenGL version string: 2.1.7059 Release
[21:46] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: I tried to enable effects
[21:46] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: does compiz work?
[21:46] <Tonio_> no warning or so, but not any effect, even the shadows do work
[21:46] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: no compiz installed
[21:47] <mhb> Nightrose: well, not sure. At school, every student has a separate account, so it's clear who you are. It's the same on my machine.
[21:47] <mhb> perhaps seele won't kill me if I dare to ask :o)
[21:48] <Nightrose> mhb: shared family computer with seperate accounts - if you want to check who is logged in it might come in handy - though it is a cornercase yea
[21:48] <Nightrose> don´t see the harm done still
[21:48] <mhb> seele: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~apachelogger/tmp/kickoffbranding.png please notice the bottom left corner message "user kubuntu4 on osiris". Is that information useful from a usability point of view?
[21:49] <mhb> what I mean is: is it helping a majority of users, a minority of users or do people simply ignore such information?
[21:49] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: trying to restart X
[21:49] <mhb> seele: thank you for your time
[21:50] <mhb> Nightrose: removing useless features is the goal to overcome Wirth's law
[21:50] <Nightrose> hmm
[21:50] <RadiantFire> hello mhb
[21:51] <apache|mobile> right
[21:51] <apache|mobile> letz make it a white space
[21:51] <apache|mobile> looks beter anyway
[21:51] <mhb> Nightrose: like I said somewhere above, "you cannot tell which raindrop caused the flood" meaning a lot of small useless features make a bloated application
[21:51] <apache|mobile> useless whitespace ftw
[21:51] <mhb> apache|mobile: heh, we could brand it, or make use of it in another way
[21:52] <apache|mobile> mhb: come up with a replacement
[21:53] <mhb> apache|mobile: a) brand the whole bottom panel b) kickoff takes too much space anyway
[21:54] <nosrednaekim> use the simple menu!
[21:54] <apache|mobile> mhb: I saied replacement, not possible solutions
[21:54] <apache|mobile> code that is
[21:54] <apache|mobile> implementing something useful
[21:55] <mhb> ah, right. I never do anything useful.
[21:55] <mhb> shame on me.
[21:55] <mhb> hi RadiantFire
[21:59] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: it seems I get effects using xrender and not opengl
[21:59] <Tonio_> I suspect I have issues with the opengl support then :/
[22:00] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: yeah..I think we went though this a couple weeks ago.
[22:00] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: who is "we" ?
[22:00] <nosrednaekim> you and I...
[22:00] <nosrednaekim> IIRC
[22:00] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: yeah but that was different, as fglrxinfos was saying mesa was doing the opengl stuff
[22:01] <Tonio_> now I have fglrxw working, that's the tricky part
[22:01] <nosrednaekim> oh... do you have composite enabled in yur Xorg?
[22:01] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: should be by default right ?
[22:02] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: it depends if you have the official fglrx installed before
[22:02] <nosrednaekim> but if there is no composite section, then yes, it is enabled
[22:02] <Tonio_> I have no one
[22:02] <stdin> Tonio_: I has to edit my xorg.conf slightly to get OpenGL to work for me: http://websvn.kde.org/*checkout*/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/kwin/COMPOSITE_HOWTO
[22:02] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: want to see my xorg.conf ?
[22:02] <nosrednaekim> ok... I have to run... sorry.
[22:03] <Tonio_> no pb
[22:03] <nosrednaekim> I'll be around tomorrow
[22:03] <Tonio_> well is there a way to test for compositing ?
[22:03] <Tonio_> that's just what I need in fact ;)
[22:04] <mhb> RadiantFire: how's life?
[22:20] <mornfall> yuriy: Can you elaborate? About the linking failure.
[22:20] <mornfall> (I am semi-around.)
[22:30] <yuriy> mornfall: it was a runtime failure, it's not finding the shared ept library unless i set the location
[22:32] <yuriy> i'm now not too sure if it had worked since i changed it back to shared though
[22:32] <yuriy> so it makes some sense
[22:44] <mornfall> Ok.
[22:45] <seele> mhb: i think in a multi-user environment it is a useful place to check to see what user you are logged in as
[22:45] <seele> mhb: however, i dont know if the primary use scenario of kubuntu is multi-user
[22:46] <Nightrose> seele: thx - exactly my point :)
[22:46] <seele> mhb: the information at that location isn't bad; however, i tend to favor putting it at the top of the menu as a banner
[22:47] <seele> Nightrose: which one?  that it is a useful place or that kubuntu isn't typically multi-user?
[22:47] <Nightrose> both
[22:47] <ryanakca> apachelogger: ooooh :)
[22:48] <ryanakca> apachelogger: feel like helping us out? You can't do marketting for an online project without a nice website... so you really must help us out by submitting a mockup :D
[22:48] <ryanakca> (at least we'll have one submitted)
[22:48] <seele> Nightrose: well the information doesn't hurt, but an artist could probably find a better way to make it pretty
[22:49] <mhb> seele: somehow, this feature does not make the cut for me and it's only consuming resources, but thanks.
[22:49] <yuriy> mornfall: how do i get the lists of depends and such for a package?
[22:50] <seele> i dont think it adds or takes away from anything and is more of a decoration that some people like
[22:50] <seele> it's more useful in multi-user environments.. and like i said, i dont know how common that is with kubuntu
[22:50] <seele> maybe if an artist put it in a better location you would have a different opinion
[22:51] <seele> i dont think it looks particularly nice there, but then again i dont really like kickoff either
[22:51] <mhb> seele: yeah, if resources were abundant, it would be a nice decoration. I'm considering the usefulness/resource consumption ratio.
[22:52] <yuriy> i think at the top, with rounded corners would be nice
[22:52] <yuriy> resource consumption of an extra label??
[22:52] <mhb> :o)
[22:52] <aantipop> are you talking about a kubuntu logo for the menu ?
[22:52] <mhb> I'm crazy like const use.
[22:52] <seele> mhb: adding the user and computer name really makes that much of a difference?
[22:54] <mhb> seele: that is the question... if we added a 1000 sometimes-nice-to-have features like this one, it might slow the system down quite noticably.
[22:54] <mhb> but you can't really point out which one did it
[22:55] <mornfall> yuriy: Guess you'd have to implement that in libept right now.
[22:56] <seele> mhb: i dont know if this is too reasonable of a feature though, there is an established expectation that the information could be there
[22:56] <mornfall> yuriy: Not to mention that dependencies are somewhat complex.
[22:56] <seele> mhb: if you were really worried about kickoff, i could come up with a list of things i'd rather see improved than worrying about listing the username :)
[22:56] <yuriy> mhb: you are talking about a desktop with fade in effects on every other widget, translucency and other effects, detailed icons...
[22:57]  * seele regrets not spending more time with kbfx...
[22:57] <mhb> seele: you are right. I guess I better leave it be.
[22:58] <mhb> seele: but I guess you have the credibility to raise UI complaints about kickoff, don't you? I mean at the KDE level.
[22:58] <mhb> seele: I'd be happy to see kickoff changed from there so we don't have to patch it too much to make it usable.
[22:58] <mhb> :o)
[22:58] <seele> mhb: i have before.. but there's a long weird history about it
[22:59] <seele> afaik it came out of suse
[22:59] <seele> and people didnt want to implement my suggestion because gnome came up with something similar soon after i published my ideas
[23:00] <seele> and there is always the issue of "who is going to build the damn thing?"
[23:01] <mhb> seele: ah. sorry to hear that.
[23:02] <stdin> hmm, if this dotancohen re-opens bug 182786 be sure to remark as invalid again
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182786 in meta-kde "KDE4 should not be standard in 8.04 LTS" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182786
[23:03] <stdin> (he's starting to annoy me somewhat now)
[23:03] <mhb> I'm certain some interesting Kickoff replacements arrive soon. There's raptor, the Tasty Menu ...
[23:03] <jpatrick> stdin: he's annoying me too
[23:03] <yuriy> mornfall: are tags and changelog also not yet imlemented?
[23:04] <mornfall> yuriy: Right.
[23:05] <stdin> jpatrick: I would have thought creating a "bug" like that would constitute abuse of the launchpad BTS
[23:05] <jpatrick> stdin: I'm going to write a comment on everything I know on it
[23:12] <mornfall> yuriy: There is probably some sort of tag API, but probably not one I would prefer.
[23:12] <mornfall> yuriy: And it does not deal with Token at all. Need to implement that.
[23:13] <mornfall> As for dependencies, that is another problem. There is code somewhere to get a saner internal representation than the one used by apt.
[23:13] <mornfall> But that needs to be scavenged and reworked to fit the new API style.
[23:14] <mornfall> yuriy: Otherwise, how does the new APT bode speed-wise to the Adept shipped with Kubuntu? I haven't seen that branch for ages...
[23:14] <mornfall> s/APT/Adept/
[23:15] <yuriy> mornfall: checking off install takes a couple seconds sometimes
[23:15] <mornfall> Hm, yes, the checkboxes may pose a problem.
[23:16] <yuriy> mornfall: the package list is not filled at startup, so I don't know how well it performs with a really large list of packages
[23:16] <yuriy> also ideally it would show search results as you type, and it doesn't feel like it would be fast enough
[23:17] <mornfall> yuriy: You can test that by either using some common word, or by modifying the code to fill it with something bigger.
[23:17] <mornfall> yuriy: As for search as you type, well, old adept was probably much slower.
[23:18] <mornfall> Well, dunno.
[23:19] <mornfall> I have been thinking about the download progress widget over the weekend and I am somewhat left without a conclusion.
[23:19] <yuriy> also, just found a crasher: clicking twice quikly on a package
[23:21] <mornfall> /home/mornfall/dev/pkg/adept-3/adept/extendablelist.h: 108: assertion `!m_extended.contains( idx )' failed;
[23:21] <mornfall> Hm.
[23:22] <mornfall> That is going to be hard to fix.
[23:22] <claydoh> stdin: that will create a firestorm i think :(
[23:23] <mornfall> createEditor is called before the editor for the same item is destroyed.  Which sounds like a Qt bug to me.
[23:23] <stdin> claydoh: it's not a bug and as such it can be nothing but invalid.
[23:23] <mornfall> Or some weird signal interleaving happens.
[23:24] <mornfall> As in the click signal "jumps the queue" and takes over the destroyed() signal from the previous editor.
[23:24] <yuriy> mornfall: searching for "the" take a while to fill the whole list, but the good thing is that now it shows results right away and isn't flickery at it, so certainly an improvement
[23:24] <claydoh> stdin: I agree 125%
[23:24] <claydoh> could it be marked as 'wishlist' tho?
[23:25] <stdin> no, because it has no chance what-so-ever of ever being fixed/implemented
[23:25] <claydoh> who can 'reject' it?
[23:25] <mornfall> yuriy: Well, the algorithm for searching is much more complex (it is a real full-text search with stemming and all). Unfortunately, I do not know yet how to get it all working with DDTP.
[23:25] <stdin> at best it's a "Won't Fix", but it's not a bug in the first place
[23:25] <yuriy> mornfall: DDTP?
[23:26] <stdin> claydoh: there's no such thing, only "Invalid"
[23:26] <mornfall> Debian Description Translation Project.
[23:26] <claydoh> thats why I didn't see it
[23:28] <mornfall> yuriy: As for the crasher, we could work around by only creating the widget in createEditor and keep refcount in the m_extended set (now would be a map probably).
[23:29] <mornfall> yuriy: Hm, disregard the first part of that -- the workaround lies in keeping "refcount" in m_extended (ie. becomes QMap< QPersistentModelIndex, int >.
[23:29] <mornfall> yuriy: Then, in createEditor check if it is already there, if so, just increase refcount (and create new widget of course).
[23:29] <mornfall> yuriy: in editorDestroyed, we would decrease refcount and if it is 0, remove it from the map and do all the bookkeeping again.
[23:30] <mornfall> If you understand what I mean from the confused description, you could try implementing it : - ).
[23:30] <yuriy> mornfall: hmm, it doesn't always do it, i think it might be only while filling the list
[23:30] <yuriy> perhaps the model index changes?
[23:30] <claydoh> ok dumb question: has a kde version been selected as the default in hardy?
[23:30] <mornfall> yuriy: No. I can reproduce it with non-changing list. It just takes a *lot* of clicking.
[23:31] <yuriy> ah ok
[23:31] <stdin> claydoh: depends what they bring out and when
[23:31] <claydoh> ok at least its a reason for the bug to be invalid
[23:32] <claydoh> at this point
[23:32] <yuriy> mornfall: i'll try that after dinner
[23:32] <mornfall> I'll probably fall asleep by then (I am up for way too long today, got up at 5:45 am and it's 0:32 am next day already).
[23:33] <mornfall> But I will read mail in the morning so if you manage to fix that, it'd be welcome : - ).
[23:33] <stdin> claydoh: doesn't matter what version we choose, it's not a bug
[23:33] <mornfall> If I have some major intent with Adept 3, it is fixing most of the annoying bugs.
[23:33] <mornfall> And crashers are very annoying.
[23:34] <yuriy> mornfall: btw, already sent mail with some patches about a half hour ago
[23:34] <yuriy> mornfall: nite
[23:35] <mornfall> Found.
[23:35] <mornfall> I will look through them before going to bed...
[23:37] <Riddell> mornfall: this thread may be interesting http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.cvs/594558/focus=594761
[23:40] <mornfall> Riddell: Hm. Are you suggesting we can allocate a PTY ourselves and direct dpkg session to that and then tell console to take that over?
[23:40] <mornfall> s/console/konsole/
[23:40] <mornfall> That would be a fairly sensible thing to do, if I knew how one works with that PTY...
[23:41] <mornfall> Surely I could learn about it. If that is a workable approach, why not.
[23:41] <Riddell> mornfall: it's what we do with the upgrade tool
[23:42] <mornfall> Riddell: And it is using konsole?
[23:42] <Riddell> mornfall: yes, a patched version of it
[23:42] <mornfall> Ah. Hmh.
[23:42] <Riddell> it starts dpkg then feeds the file desriptor to setPty on konsole and voila
[23:43] <mornfall> But it still sounds like a better option than bending KProcess or whatever konsole uses.
[23:43] <mornfall> Can I have the source?
[23:44] <Riddell> mornfall: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/konsole/
[23:44] <Riddell> patches Kubuntu_66 and _86 for kdelibs and kdebase
[23:44] <mornfall> Riddell: I more meant of the upgrade tool... But the konsole bit may be useful as well.
[23:44] <Riddell> konsole.py  is a test app
[23:45] <mornfall> Ah.
[23:45] <Riddell> mornfall: upgrade tool is part of update notifier https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-notifier/ubuntu
[23:46] <Riddell> trouble is our patched konsole has a nasty habit of consuming very large amounts of memory
[23:46] <mornfall> Igh.
[23:47] <Riddell> (when doing the setPty)
[23:53] <mornfall> yuriy: It would be probably good to use QTextBrowser for the long description in the details view, since the label is not quite scrollable.
[23:53] <mornfall> (Also, it is probably neccessary to use pixel scrolling in the package lists views, since the items are too high sometimes...)
[23:56] <mornfall> Well, what do you people think about this idea for the progress view: use a package list, extend everything, but not with the usual widget, but with a URL and progress meter, which would change to "downloaded" label (or would start out as "cached" label).
[23:56] <mornfall> With package list, I basically mean the same thing you see in Preview.