[00:00] <mornfall> (I could even imagine ticking off the installation/removal stages in such a list, but that is possibly a little wild and possibly a little too useless.)
[00:01] <mornfall> Especially considering how are the actions ordered (usually ~3 passes through the entire list).
[00:05]  * ryanakca gapes in awe at how much faster Konqueror 4 is compared to Firefox...
[00:05] <ryanakca> 15 seconds to load http://irssi.org/themes compared to 200+ in firefox
[00:21] <blizzzek> gn8
[00:25]  * ryanakca is quite impressed with KDE4 :)
[00:27]  * mhb is quite impressed with oroborus ... but most of this channel hates me enough for today.
[00:28] <insanity> Riddell: die!
[00:28] <Riddell> hmm, this is better than a stressball
[00:29] <Nightrose> Riddell: hehe want me to make her go away?
[00:29] <insanity> Riddell: wanker!
[00:29] <Riddell> Nightrose: oh I think it's more fun if I do
[00:29] <Nightrose> *g* ok
[00:29] <Riddell> !language
[00:29] <ubotu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
[00:30] <vorian> holy kde4 updates!
[00:30] <vorian> :)
[00:33] <ryanakca> mhb: oroborus ?
[00:35] <mhb> ryanakca: it's a window manager. Feature-wise it's very similar to openbox, but it's even more lightweight. It's actually so lightweight it follows the UNIX philosophy - it does one thing and it does it well.
[00:36] <mhb> ryanakca: but it still is configurable and themable, and it's not one of those "keyboard-only" WMs.
[00:46] <mhb> ryanakca: something very different from KDE4 :o)
[01:07] <seele> mhb: i dont hate you!
[01:07]  * seele hugs mhb 
[01:08] <mhb> seele: ah, thank you!
[01:08] <mhb> I don't hate you, too :o)
[01:08] <seele> haha
[01:08]  * Jucato smiles :)
[01:09]  * Jucato waves too
[01:09] <seele> hallo
[01:09] <mhb> hi Jucato, I don't hate you either, but I'm not so sure that it's symmetric
[01:09] <Jucato> seele: all this time I thought you were partially responsible (a.k.a. to blame? :P) for kickoff's "usability studiess"... until I came across one of their docs which has an image of your proposal.. and it looked very different
[01:10] <Jucato> mhb: if I hated you, I wouldn't be talking to you at all :)
[01:10] <Jucato> (or I wouldn't be here)
[01:10] <seele> Jucato: omg i hate you
[01:10] <seele> Jucato: (jk)
[01:10] <Jucato> :D
[01:10] <seele> sigh, what to do about kickoff
[01:10] <seele> it really makes my head hurt
[01:11] <Jucato> mhb: just because we don't agree on some things isn't enough reason to hate each other right? :D
[01:11] <Jucato> heheh :)
[01:11] <Jucato> seele: I personally would have wanted something like a cross between kbfx and tasty menu.... sort of :)
[01:12] <seele> Jucato: yeah, kbfx had a good idea about things
[01:13] <seele> kickoff breaks some really basic interaction design rules, that's why it hurts my head
[01:13] <Jucato> fortunately or unfortunately, they seemed to have dropped those in favor of doing something probably completely different with raptor...
[01:14] <Nightrose> seele: can you elaborate a little on that?
[01:14] <Nightrose> kickoff that is
[01:14] <seele> Nightrose: poor positional feedback when you are in a section
[01:14] <Nightrose> ah right
[01:14] <seele> Nightrose: mouse over activation of sections in a sensitive spot
[01:15] <seele> some of the menus don't have headers, so you cant tell where you are easily
[01:15] <seele> the icons in the leave menu don't match the logout menu
[01:15] <seele> program descriptions are hidden until mouseover
[01:15] <seele> mouseover effect of selecting a menu item mess with scrolling
[01:16] <mhb> seele: some of the mouseovers have been addressed, haven't they?
[01:16] <Nightrose> seele: hmm ok thx - makes sense
[01:16] <seele> mhb: maybe?  i'm running whatever is in the kubuntu release
[01:16] <Jucato> at least the mouseover over the tabs at the bottom can be turned on/off
[01:16]  * mhb checks
[01:16] <seele> Nightrose: et cetera.. i'm trying to write them all down so i can give people a list when they ask me to elaborate when i complain
[01:17] <seele> Jucato: the problem is it is on by default
[01:17] <Nightrose> seele: hehe so I am not the first to ask...
[01:17] <seele> Jucato: think of all the users who don't know how to change defaults
[01:17] <Jucato> seele: an very annoying :)
[01:17] <Jucato> and*
[01:17] <Jucato> I just happen to like right-click on almost anything that's why I ran into it
[01:17] <ryanakca> mhb: oooh, cool :)
[01:17]  * Jucato right-clicks on mhb and seele
[01:18]  * Jucato sees a "blue hair" context menu on seele
[01:18] <seele> mhb: i know long ago (around kde4core) they were talking about a mouse path algorithm to cut off corners so you dont accidentally select a menu when moving the mouse away
[01:18]  * ryanakca considers switching to KDE4 for writing his essay...
[01:18] <seele> mhb: but it either wasnt implemented or isnt effective enough
[01:18] <ryanakca> but doesn't want it to eat his non existent children... or his essay
[01:21] <Jucato> seele: I'm looking at the image of you app browser mockup from coolo's talk at the akademy. it kinda looks like tasty menu from a distance. though I can't say much since I can't find a larger version :)
[01:21] <mhb> seele: hmm, most of the mouseoves has not been addressed
[01:22] <mhb> seele: but apachelogger's screenshot (of kickoff with some suse patches) has the context info by default (not on mouseover), so it may have been an upstream KDE decision.
[01:26] <seele> mhb: it looks like it was reversed.  the selected item doesn't have the description
[01:50] <jjesse> evneing
[01:50] <Jucato> hi jjesse!
[01:53] <jjesse> hello Jucato
[02:00] <jjesse> slow night tonight?
[02:00] <Jucato> or morning. but yes :)
[02:17] <nixternal> amd64 packages for kde4 are still silly
[02:18] <nixternal> upgrade wants to remove stuff (extragear-plasma and such)
[02:27] <nixternal> Jucato: where is the video of coolo's talk you were talking about?
[02:28] <Jucato> not a video. slides
[02:28] <nixternal> heh, I am glad there is at least a plasmoid for the old KMenu, which is what I use :) I removed that kickoff crap
[02:28] <nixternal> link me homeskillet
[02:29] <Jucato> http://conference2006.kde.org/conference/talks/33.php
[02:30] <nixternal> ahh, that's why I couldn't find it. I was looking at 2007
[02:30] <Jucato> :D
[02:34] <nixternal> interesting...I like how their usability scores in the slides show kickoff scoring higher than KMenu and Vista
[02:35] <nixternal> Vista imho, is better and easier to manipulate than kickoff
[02:35] <nixternal> plus, after seeing the picture of coolo taking the usability test, the results now seem to be biased if you are allowing developers to test out
[02:36] <nixternal> at Allen Bradley, when we created anything GUI/HMI, the customer took the usability tests, and we would work from there
[02:37] <seele> hmm.. the suse version has a background color tie-in for the selected tab.  i wonder why the kde4 version doesn't have that
[02:38] <Jucato> seele: maybe robert wasn't able to port that yet... suse isn't the one that made the kde4 version...
[02:38] <Jucato> (I seem to recall a heated debate on whether to use bold faced text instead...)
[02:39] <seele> yeah i know
[02:39] <seele> bold faced text?
[02:39] <Jucato> to indicate the active tab
[02:39] <nixternal> seele: it seems your idea from around 2 years ago was kind of to take on that SLED menu that SuSE has
[02:39] <Jucato> s/SLED/Slab/
[02:39] <nixternal> ya slab
[02:39] <nixternal> derr :p
[02:39] <Jucato> [07:00] <seele> and people didnt want to implement my suggestion because gnome came up with something similar soon after i published my ideas
[02:40] <nixternal> I read through some usability reports on the vista start menu and it seemed the only things is really fixed was "it doesn't take up the whole screen when I have a lot of apps"
[02:41] <nixternal> Task 13: Shut down the system
[02:41] <Jucato> I need to reread seele's report on the start menu usability :)
[02:41] <seele> Jucato: all he has to do is change the active color from light gray to white
[02:41] <nixternal> are you telling me it took someone, or an average of someones, about 100 seconds to shutdown vista?
[02:41] <nixternal> that right there tells me that you should not smoke a pound of weed prior to taking the tests
[02:42] <Jucato> seele: yeah.. I don't know how it came up though... but iirc it caused quite an argument between robert and aaron :)
[02:42] <vorian_> ha!
[02:42] <seele> Jucato: aaron seigo?
[02:42] <Jucato> seele: yep...
[02:42] <Jucato> can't recall the details now
[02:42] <seele> head -> desk
[02:43] <Jucato> nixternal: it didn't take me that long, but it did take me a bit to figure out which button at the bottom did which :)
[02:43] <Jucato> but then again, I was only using it for a few minutes :)
[02:43] <nixternal> ya, the first time I tried Vista I had to take a second to see which one of the 2 power down looking buttons did what
[02:44] <nixternal> it only takes me 1 second to shutdown vista..I can do it with my eyes closed
[02:44] <nixternal> Vista locks up -> POWER BUTTON!
[02:44] <Jucato> lol
[02:45] <nixternal> 30 people took the tests...ie. 30 developers
[02:45] <nixternal> seele: how much do we need Shuttleworth to give ya to start up your own usability testing center? :)
[02:46] <seele> uhm.. well i am always available as a consultant :)
[02:47] <Jucato> nixternal: um.. dreaming? :)
[02:48] <nixternal> that is the first time I have seen the kbfx menu..it don't look half bad
[02:49] <Jucato> it's not... I think vista copied it :P
[02:49] <seele> yeah.. it's based on some of the same concepts i was playing with for a shortcut menu
[02:49] <seele> lol
[02:49] <seele> microsoft has a huge research department, but how much of it is original?
[02:51] <nixternal> I got stuck doing a Microsoft usability test at the mall a few years back
[02:51] <nixternal> they gave me a free starbucks, so I obliged
[02:52] <seele> what did you test?
[02:53] <nixternal> Internet Explorer 7
[02:53] <nixternal> or what was to become IE7
[02:54] <nixternal> and the other one was the Media Center controls, which absolutely confused the hell out of me :)
[02:56] <seele> hehe
[02:57] <nixternal> ya, I am sure after I took the test they rewrote it with a playschool theme
[03:20] <seele> grr.. just broke konq
[03:22] <jjesse> bummer
[03:27] <Jucato> more than it already is (broken)?
[03:28] <seele> Jucato: ouch! hehe
[03:29]  * Jucato is quite disappointed in konqueror4 as a file manager/wrapper...
[03:30] <seele> Jucato: not a fan of Dolphin?
[03:30] <Hirvinen_> Konqueror <3
[03:30] <Jucato> it has it's strengths. I don't hate it. but I would have probably preferred to use Konqueror... except that in KDE 4.0... that's not really an option...
[03:31] <Hirvinen_> It's not?
[03:31] <Hirvinen_> Why?
[03:31] <Hirvinen_> That doesn't sound too good to me.
[03:31] <Jucato> put it this way... you'll have to open Dolphin to make File Management configuration changes, even if you're using Konqueror
[03:32] <Jucato> although I might be missing some hidden menu or something
[03:32] <Hirvinen_> Bah. Why on earth aren't those in systemsettings / kcontrol.
[03:32] <Jucato> because they are only specific to the dolphin part
[03:33] <Jucato> I'm mostly referring to the view settings
[03:33] <Hirvinen_> No they are not, if they affect Konqueror as well.
[03:33] <Jucato> Hirvinen_: they affect konqueror only because konqueror uses the dolphin kpart.
[03:34] <Jucato> oh there's another thing... no more tooltips in Konqueror... because the dolphin part doesn't have any (it uses the information panel)
[03:35] <Jucato> no status bar info either...
[03:35] <Hirvinen_> =(
[03:36] <Jucato> now my favorite part of the day...
[03:36] <Jucato> lunch!!!
[03:36] <Hirvinen_> Hm. 0536 here. No lunch for some time.
[03:37] <Hirvinen_> Are the file association settings then only under Dolphin?
[03:57] <nixternal> any plans on building the kde4 api docs?
[04:27]  * nixternal sits back and builds apidox (all night long)
[04:28]  * nixternal forget he deleted the last build of api docs when removing kde-devel user
[04:59] <manchicken> Howdy folks
[05:07] <manchicken> Anybody home?
[05:09] <nixternal> howdy manchicken
[05:09] <nixternal> jeesh, api docs still building
[05:26] <nixternal> anyone else having update issues with amd64 and kde4 on hardy?
[05:26] <nixternal> I still can't update
[05:27] <yuriy> i think somebody else mentioned it earlier
[05:27] <nixternal> ya, probably me
[05:27] <yuriy> oh yeah, it's you
[05:27] <nixternal> hahaha
[05:27]  * nixternal throws a broken kde 4 deb at apachelogger_ 
[05:27] <nixternal> :)
[05:28] <yuriy> i wish valgrind and callgrind didn't slow the program down so much
[05:28] <nixternal> I can live with the slowness..I just love all of the information it gives me...makes fixing your apps so much easier
[05:29] <yuriy> yeah, but i've heard similar tools (from MS?) on windows aren't as bad performance-wise
[05:37] <yuriy> ooh konq sidebar is working now
[05:56]  * apachelogger_ throws his stress ball at nixternal
[05:56] <apachelogger_> mail me proper information :P
[05:56]  * apachelogger_ cuttles off to school
[06:41] <apache|mobile> nixternal: pling
[06:41] <apache|mobile> stdin: pling
[06:41] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: pling
[06:52] <apache|mobile> no one likes me :(
[06:52] <Hobbsee> apparently not
[06:54]  * apache|mobile notes that the wrapper scripts are giving him an headache
[08:28] <sebastian^> good morning folks
[08:38] <apache|mobile> lahoy sebastian^
[08:48] <Nightrose> morning folks :)
[08:48] <Nightrose> apache|mobile: plong *g*
[08:48]  * apache|mobile starts singing
[08:48] <Nightrose> apache|mobile: whohooooooo @ nice icons - sweetness
[08:48] <apache|mobile> Nightrose: you are so beautiful to meeeeee
[08:48] <apache|mobile> hrrhrr, icons
[08:48]  * apache|mobile needs sleep
[08:48] <apache|mobile> and I have to learn this afternoon
[08:48] <Nightrose> ;-)
[08:48] <apache|mobile> tomorrow is our last maths test -.-
[08:48] <Nightrose> :/
[08:48] <Nightrose> prepared?
[08:49] <apache|mobile> not at all
[08:50] <apache|mobile> was patching kde4 since friday :S
[08:50] <Nightrose> good luck then :)
[08:57] <apache|mobile> I has the most beautiful workspace revision eva!
[09:06] <aantipop> i lost 3 menu-entries through the logo/user/machine line
[09:07] <aantipop> from 12 -> 9. now kickoff is not usuable
[09:08] <Nightrose> aantipop: you know you can get more "lines" in kickoff?
[09:08] <aantipop> will try
[09:09] <aantipop> not yet, will try again after logout
[09:11] <aantipop> no success, menu shows 8 1/2 applications, cant get it bigger
[09:12] <aantipop> i was kinda getting used to kickoff, but at the moment i have to scroll too often
[09:17] <apache|mobile> hm
[09:17] <apache|mobile> aantipop: please report a bug
[09:18] <aantipop> will do
[09:18] <apache|mobile> it appears one patch br0ke the visible entry setting
[09:19] <aantipop> i was able set it to very high numbers before (even if it didnt get bigger than 12), now it stops at 34
[09:20] <aantipop> is kickoff or "new k-menu" the official name and whats the package ?
[09:21] <aantipop> oh it doesnt stop at 34, BS
[09:28] <aantipop> apache|mobile: is this a plasma-bug, or what package should i file it agains ?
[09:28] <apache|mobile> aantipop: kdebase-workspace
[09:29] <aantipop> apachelogger_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/183127
[09:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 183127 in kdebase-workspace "new k-menu is not able to display more than 9 entries" [Undecided,New]
[09:51] <smarter> Will yakuake/kde4 be packaged?
[09:52] <emonkey> hopefully
[09:53]  * emonkey can't live without ;)
[09:53] <smarter> Is someone working on it or can I try to package it?
[09:53]  * smarter loves yakuake too ;)
[09:54] <apache|mobile> smarter: is there a release yet?
[09:54] <Jucato> only in SVN
[09:54] <smarter> in extragear/utils/yakuake
[09:54] <smarter> works pretty well
[09:56] <Jucato> I'm not sure Sho_ intends to make a release of the kde 4 version immediately though... I haven't asked him about it yet
[09:56]  * apache|mobile votes against svn snapshots
[09:56] <apache|mobile> ...there is a reason for not doing a release
[09:57] <Jucato> and even if he were to release what's currently in svn, according to him, it would be a 2.9 beta1... so it would be a beta release
[09:58] <smarter> well, that's better than nothing ;)
[09:59] <smarter> is there any plan to provide kde trunk snapshots or kde 4.0.x snapshots packages?
[10:02] <apache|mobile> no
[10:02] <apache|mobile> smarter: I backport important bugfixes to .0
[10:02] <apache|mobile> until .1 is out
[10:04] <smarter> apache|mobile: okay, thanks
[10:05] <aantipop> apache|mobile: is kopete-kde4 already patched ?
[10:05] <apache|mobile> no
[10:05] <apache|mobile> aantipop: I would be more than happy if you would create the patch for me ;-)
[10:06] <aantipop> apache|mobile: thats far beyond my knowledge
[10:06] <aantipop> apache|mobile: i was able to do it on my machine, thats all
[10:09] <smarter> what's the problem with kopete?
[10:10] <aantipop> smarter: when using another language, you loose the ability to add networks like ice, aim, everything
[10:10] <aantipop> *icq
[10:11] <aantipop> smarter: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155256 http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155256
[10:11] <ubotu> KDE bug 155256 in general "kopete doesn't let add any IM service" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[10:11] <aantipop> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork-kde4/+bug/182816
[10:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182816 in kdenetwork-kde4 "No connections to choose from in KDE4-Kopete" [Medium,Confirmed]
[10:13] <smarter> so we only need to backport the fix?
[10:13] <apache|mobile_> yes
[10:21] <apache|mobile_> smarter: want to create the patch?
[10:21] <smarter> apache|mobile_: I'm doing it right now ;)
[10:22] <apache|mobile_> hooray
[10:24] <smarter> apache|mobile_: http://smarter.free.fr/pkg/remove_translated_category_fields.diff
[10:34] <emonkey> the solution is to delete just all the localization lines?
[10:34] <emonkey> aren't they used?
[10:34] <smarter> emonkey: no, they're not used and "Protocols" is already translated in Kopete
[10:35] <emonkey> okey, I was just wondering
[10:39] <apache|mobile_> smarter: thanks, testbuilding right now
[10:42] <smarter> apache|mobile_: I tried "sudo cp kopete/protocols/**/kopete_*.desktop /usr/lib/kde4/share/kde4/services" and it worked, so there should'nt be any problem
[10:43] <apache|mobile_> smarter: well, I also did a change to the build process ;-)
[10:43]  * ryanakca reminds everybody of the Kubuntu Website Mockup Contest :)
[10:44] <apache|mobile_> ryanakca: btw, I'm nothing like a good artist ;-)
[10:44] <ryanakca> apache|mobile_: lol :)
[10:44] <ryanakca> nor am I... which is why we're all polling the planet.
[10:44] <ryanakca> And I haven't received one single submission yet... which is starting to get discouraging, four days into the contest
[10:45] <apache|mobile_> a good mockup takes time :P
[10:45] <ryanakca> :P
[10:45] <apache|mobile_> ryanakca: tell me in 48 hours again, I'll do some promo flood then
[10:46] <ryanakca> thanks :)
[10:46] <smarter> Hum... I can't add any accounts in kopete
[10:46] <smarter> the "Finish" button is always inactive
[10:46] <apache|mobile_> cool
[10:46] <apache|mobile_> did work yesterday for me
[10:46] <smarter> it worked some time ago when I compiled from svn
[10:46]  * ryanakca fired up Kopete-kde4... it failed me abismaly :)
[10:47] <ryanakca> The config panel isn't complete... so I can't add any accounts :S
[10:47] <apache|mobile_> kopete isn't in all that good shape
[10:47] <ryanakca> ... the config panel isn't even started from what I could see :)
[10:47] <apache|mobile_> Oo
[10:47] <apache|mobile_> that is strange
[10:47] <smarter> the "windows live messenger" protocol can't be configured at all
[10:48] <smarter> "Cannot load the Windows Live (MSN) Messenger protocol plugin."
[10:48] <aantipop> hmm works for me, i patched it manually
[10:49]  * ryanakca has used the same config for ages... so I guess I'm safe :)
[10:50] <aantipop> ryanakca: only kopete-kde4 is problematic when you use a different language for kde
[10:50] <apache|mobile_> aantipop: you patched msn?
[10:50] <aantipop> yup
[10:51] <apache|mobile_> aantipop: how?
[10:51] <ryanakca> aantipop: hmmm... other than en-us?
[10:51] <aantipop> wait ill paste it
[10:51]  * ryanakca checks to make sure he isn't using en_gb
[10:53] <ryanakca> aantipop: any way to import Kopete3 / whatever the current gutsy one is accounts into kopete-kde4?
[10:54] <aantipop> ryanakca: dont think so
[10:54] <Nightrose> ryanakca: worked for me
[10:55] <Nightrose> just copied it over tp .kde4
[10:55] <Nightrose> *to
[10:55] <ryanakca> Nightrose: okies :)
[10:55] <Nightrose> well google talk does not work but that is due to an outdated library
[10:55] <aantipop> apache|mobile_: http://rafb.net/p/iIkJW589.html kopete_msn.desktop
[10:56] <apache|mobile_> aantipop: what did you exactly do?
[10:56] <apache|mobile_> remove the translated plugin entries?
[10:56] <smarter> I copied ~/.kde/share/apps/kopete and ~/.kde/share/config/kopeterc in my ~/.kde4 and it works
[10:56] <emonkey> ryanakca, where have you published the mockup contest?
[10:57] <ryanakca> emonkey: yep, I'll get you a link, it was on planet a few days ago
[10:57] <aantipop> apache|mobile: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdenetwork/kopete/protocols/msn/kopete_msn.desktop?r1=761365&r2=761364&pathrev=761365&diff_format=l
[10:57] <aantipop> i think exactly this :)
[10:57] <ryanakca> http://blog.ryanak.ca/archives/44
[10:58] <emonkey> ryanakca, I can ask our news team about write something about on kubuntu-de.org
[10:58] <apache|mobile_> aantipop: ok, that is what I'm building right now :P
[10:58] <ryanakca> emonkey: that would be wonderful :)
[10:58] <apache|mobile_> ryanakca: the time frame is too short
[10:58] <ryanakca> two weeks from the set date?
[10:58] <aantipop> apache|mobile_: im just wondering why smarter cant use msn now
[10:59] <apache|mobile_> ryanakca: make it one month
[10:59] <apache|mobile_> at least
[10:59] <ryanakca> mhb: ^^
[10:59]  * ryanakca bumps it up to a month then
[10:59] <smarter> aantipop: after copy&pasting my ~/.kde msn works using the "msn" protocol
[10:59] <smarter> but the "windows live messenger"(=libpapillon I think) doesn't work
[11:01] <ryanakca> emonkey: refresh please :)
[11:01] <ryanakca> apache|mobile_: fixed
[11:01] <smarter> it corresponds to kopete/protocols/msn(old, works) and kopete/protocols/messenger(new, doesn't work)
[11:01] <mhb> ryanakca: awesome
[11:01]  * Hobbsee finds there's no ETA on the seeds restructuring
[11:01] <emonkey> ryanakca, :) I wrote an email to our teamlist, I'm sure they'll make a news in the next 24h
[11:01]  * ryanakca tries to get it in UWN too
[11:01] <ryanakca> emonkey: thanks :D
[11:02] <aantipop> i think translated categories should removed too, dont know if everywhere
[11:17] <no0tic> hi
[11:17] <no0tic> how to behave with pakaging bug reports on kde4 ppa packages? file them simply to launchpad is enough?
[11:18] <mhb> Hobbsee: that doesn't surprise me.
[11:19] <Hobbsee> mhb: your cynisism is very helpful.  colin says he'll try to look at it this week
[11:21] <mhb> Hobbsee: it's not a cynic as it sounds ... just a statement. I still hope that in the end, a KDE4 CD will be there.
[11:21] <Hobbsee> mhb: keep in mind that it also affects all of the cd builds for everything ubuntu hardy, and will be done before feature freeze
[11:22] <mhb> it doesn't affect The Ubuntu Hardy CDs, does it?
[11:23] <Hobbsee> yes
[11:23] <mhb> same as our KDE3 CDs, they all get built
[11:23] <Hobbsee> if the seeds infrastructure changes, and they get done in a different way, it changes all the cds.
[11:23] <Hobbsee> didn't you read ubuntu-devel?
[11:23] <mhb> no
[11:24] <mhb> well, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
[11:26] <Nightrose> apache|mobile_: I still have a few missing app icons - want me to make a list?
[11:27] <apache|mobile_> no
[11:29] <emonkey> Iim wondering why kompare kde3 has a nice icon in katapult and kompare-kde4 a too little one which of course is more a chaotic area of psychodelic colours than an icon ... ;)
[11:31] <aantipop> "konqueror" should launch konqueror of kde3, right ? somehow it launches konqueror-kde4 now :/
[11:33] <smarter> does kfind-kde4 use strigi?
[11:33] <apache|mobile_> smarter: no
[11:43] <apache|mobile_> smarter: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork-kde4
[11:45] <smarter> apache|mobile_: great! what is kde4-wrapper-creation?
[11:45] <smarter> a script to create the /usr/bin/*-kde4 files?
[11:46] <stdin> apache|mobile_: table-tennis
[11:46] <apache|mobile_> smarter: the build fix I was talking about
[11:46] <apache|mobile_> we had quite some problems creating the wrapper structure properly, so I had to create it's own cmd in debian/rules
[11:46] <apache|mobile_> stdin: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork-kde4 checkout the new debian/rules
[11:47] <apache|mobile_> we now have kde4-wrapper-cration which gets called by common-install-indep AND common-install-arch
[11:47] <apache|mobile_> hence we can remove the duplicated creation
[11:47] <apache|mobile_> and this solution works every where
[11:47] <apache|mobile_> every time
[11:47] <apache|mobile_> every build
[11:47] <apache|mobile_> every Nightrose
[11:47] <apache|mobile_> oohhh
[11:47] <apache|mobile_> Nightrose:
[11:47] <apache|mobile_> hrrrhrrr :D
[11:47] <stdin> heh
[11:47] <Nightrose> ?
[11:48] <Nightrose> :P
[11:48] <apache|mobile_> Nightrose: any issues for me?
[11:48] <Nightrose> hmm besides the few missing icons and the kopete library thingy
[11:48] <Nightrose> no
[11:48] <stdin> have you seen https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-kde4/+bug/183038
[11:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 183038 in kdebase-kde4 "cannot create files or folders in dolphin-kde4 or konqueror-kde4" [Undecided,Fix released]
[11:48] <stdin> ?
[11:49] <Nightrose> apache|mobile_: so the dupicated entries will go away? wohooo
[11:49] <apache|mobile_> :P
[11:49] <apache|mobile_> Nightrose: in kickoff?
[11:49] <Nightrose> jep
[11:49] <apache|mobile_> no
[11:49] <apache|mobile_> well
[11:49] <apache|mobile_> maybe
[11:49] <emonkey> lol
[11:49] <apache|mobile_> anyway
[11:49] <Nightrose> hehe i see
[11:49] <apache|mobile_> have to go home
[11:49] <apache|mobile_> and learn
[11:49] <apache|mobile_> learn like I never learned before
[11:50] <apache|mobile_> maths--
[11:50] <apache|mobile_> later
[11:50] <Nightrose> have fun
[11:50] <Nightrose> laters
[11:50] <Nightrose> stdin: can confirm
[11:51] <Nightrose> stdin: as it is solved - is the fix packported yet?
[11:51] <Nightrose> *back
[11:51] <stdin> Nightrose: ah I didn't hit refresh yet :) I'll backport it today
[11:51] <Nightrose> cool
[11:51] <Nightrose> thx
[11:53] <stdin> ah wait, I already have backported it :p
[11:53] <stdin> I need to make a list or something...
[11:53] <smarter> stdin: use basket ;)
[11:54] <stdin> but, that would require setting basket up
[11:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: just saw kmplayer has been ported to kde4
[11:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: what's the plan atm for kde3 apps ported to kde4 ? do we want both in the repos ?
[11:54] <Nightrose> stdin: wohoo true - works now
[11:54] <Nightrose> perfect
[11:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: or wait for the transition with hardy +1
[11:55] <smarter> IMHO we should have both
[11:56] <smarter> kde{libs,base,edu,games,...} lacks lots of important apps
[11:57]  * ryanakca seconds smarter
[11:58] <ryanakca> Sure, it'll probably be a pita having to make sure everything gets build as /usr/bin/foobar-kde4 (I've never done it, I wouldn't know), but if people want to get the "KDE4.0 experience", they'll probably want the whole experience instead of a mix of the old and new
[11:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes, we want them both
[11:59] <Riddell> call it kmplayer-kde4
[11:59] <aantipop> is it just me, or is it _not_ possible to launch konqueror (kde3) from a kde4 session at the moment ?
[12:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki there are a couple of packages to do
[12:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll spend my friday at packaging apps that are ported to kde4
[12:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: since I never packaged kde4 apps yet, are there specific patches I have to know ?
[12:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: aka changing path etc....
[12:04] <stdin> aantipop: running "konqueror" from kde4 finds the kde4 version first, if you really want the kde3 version run "/usr/bin/konqueror"
[12:04] <aantipop> stdin: thanks again
[12:05] <aantipop> no bluetooth support on konqueror-kde4 :'(
[12:07] <Nightrose> is "show options" in krunner supposed to do anything yet? because here it seems to do nothing
[12:08] <smarter> Oo The plasma applet "Pager" is translated to "Bip" in french
[12:10] <emonkey> lol
[12:12] <Riddell> Tonio_: see other extragear packages, it needs messy bits in debian/rules (ktorrent-kde4 for example)
[12:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki thanks :)
[12:15] <ryanakca> smarter: lol :)
[12:15] <smarter> for the native english speakers here, does pager means something over than: "virtual desktops switcher"?
[12:15] <smarter> s/over/other
[12:16] <stdin> "pager" can also be "beeper"
[12:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: do we also have to go threw the all revu process ? :)
[12:19] <smarter> I will report the "bug" to the l10n folks this evening
[12:20] <stdin> does "bip" mean anything in french?
[12:21] <smarter> stdin: bip means beep ;)
[12:21] <stdin> you lazy french :p
[12:21] <smarter> ^^'
[12:22] <smarter> according to a friend, a "bip" is an old word for some sort of tattoos
[12:23] <Riddell> Tonio_: it should be reviewed by a motu yes
[12:23] <txwikinger2> In German a Bib is a baby napkin
[12:23] <stdin> smarter: there's probably some l10n people in #kde-fr
[12:23] <Riddell> smarter: I think that comes from pager the document viewer (e.g. less) which shows pages.  but it doesn't make much sense really
[12:24] <stdin> txwikinger2: in english a bib is the "napkin" that a baby uses. do you use a bib? ;)
[12:25] <stdin> language is fun :)
[12:25] <txwikinger2> We probably took it over from English
[12:25] <stdin> maybe the reverse, a lot of english words come from german
[12:25]  * Nightrose never heard bib in that context in german - only as a short form of library
[12:25] <Nightrose> ;-)
[12:26] <txwikinger2> No idea... maybe I just have fever dreams :D
[12:26] <Nightrose> hehe
[12:27] <txwikinger2> I think I should stay home tomorrow
[12:28] <txwikinger2> Ah.. ok.. I think I sortrd my language brains again... it is English not German
[12:56] <stdin> apachelogger_: ping
[12:59] <apachelogger_> stdin: pong
[12:59] <stdin> apachelogger_: you haven't fixed bug 182965, the wrapper still isn't installed. it was always created just not installed ;) however http://www.stdin.me.uk/diffs/post-rel/kdebase-workspace_4.0.0-0ubuntu5.debdiff does fix it
[12:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182965 in kdebase-workspace "kdebase-workspace doesn´t create a kmenu edit (kde4)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182965
[13:00] <apachelogger_> stdin: I don't install kmenuedit-kde4
[13:00] <apachelogger_> I install kmenuedit
[13:00] <apachelogger_> and kmenuedit.desktop
[13:01] <apachelogger_> there is no reason why someone would use kmenuedit kde4 in a kde 3 session
[13:01] <stdin> apachelogger_: well, give me a sec to remove that bit, because that fixes kdm-kde4 too
[13:02] <apachelogger_> sure
[13:03] <stdin> apachelogger_: ok hit refresh :)
[13:04] <apachelogger_> looks better now :D
[13:04] <apachelogger_> apache|mobile: http://www.stdin.me.uk/diffs/post-rel/kdebase-workspace_4.0.0-0ubuntu5.debdiff
[13:04] <stdin> the edit to debian/patches/09_genkdm_make.diff is a bit of a hack, but it works now ;)
[13:04]  * apachelogger_ notes that this is ubuntu6 not 5 :P
[13:05] <apachelogger_> before .1 is out we will have ubuntu32 like suse used to do ;-)
[13:06] <stdin> I don't see ubuntu5, only 4
[13:06] <apachelogger_> maybe I didn't upload *shurg*
[13:06] <stdin> 4 was 3 hours ago
[13:06]  * apachelogger_ takes a look at the changelog
[13:06] <apachelogger_> stdin: strange... so why do I have a folder for 5?
[13:07] <apachelogger_> hm
[13:07] <apachelogger_> was just wrong named, my 5 is the testbuild to
[13:07] <apachelogger_> ubuntu4
[13:07]  * apachelogger_ renames to 4-1
[13:07] <apachelogger_> stupid folder names, really, I must have been wicked minded
[13:09]  * apachelogger_ diggs into bug 183127
[13:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 183127 in kdebase-workspace "new k-menu is not able to display more than 9 entries" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183127
[13:33] <apachelogger_> stdin: -suppe can be removed, I guess
[13:34] <stdin> apachelogger_: yeah, I just swapped .diff-suppe and .diff around
[13:34] <apachelogger_> ok
[13:34] <apachelogger_> gotta try a vis patch
[13:35] <stdin> I'm catching up on backporting, running through hardy-changes seeing what I haven't done
[13:35] <apachelogger_> awesome
[13:41] <jpatrick> apachelogger_: what do you need libprojectm for?
[13:41] <jpatrick> to add it to the backport request
[13:42] <apachelogger_> jpatrick: provides really cool visualizations to amarok ... using libvisual-projectm
[13:43] <jpatrick> apachelogger_: building package `libprojectm1' in `../libprojectm1_1.01-3~7.10prevu1_i386.deb'
[13:43] <apachelogger_> hrrhrr
[13:44] <jpatrick> libvisual-projectm build started
[13:44] <jpatrick> I'll have the requests filed by 6 pm today :)
[13:44] <apachelogger_> jpatrick: thanks :)
[13:44] <apachelogger_> hmm
[13:45] <emonkey> nice :)
[13:45] <emonkey> tanks too
[13:45] <apachelogger_> anyone knows how to properly restart plasma?
[13:45] <jpatrick> apachelogger_: pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libprojectm-dev which is a virtual package
[13:51] <stdin> apachelogger_: kill it and "kdeinit4_wrapper plasma" ?
[13:52] <apachelogger_> stdin: I saied properly :P
[13:53] <stdin> well, how does one properly restart kdesktop?
[13:53] <apachelogger_> qdbus org.kde.plasma /MainApplication quit && kdeinit4_wrapper plasma
[13:54] <apachelogger_> http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~apachelogger/tmp/kickoff-button-highlight.ogg
[13:55] <apachelogger_> new button highlight
[13:56] <apachelogger_> stdin: what do you think?
[13:57] <stdin> apachelogger_: it looks niiiice :)
[13:57] <apachelogger_> cool
[13:57]  * apachelogger_ creates a patch
[13:57]  * Jucato checks too
[13:58] <Jucato> apachelogger_: finally! :D
[13:58] <jpatrick> apachelogger_: libprojectm request done
[13:58] <Jucato> apachelogger_: I was going to say "bloat" :P
[13:58] <apachelogger_> lol
[13:59] <apachelogger_> KDE thingy, so we there is a good chance we have this thing in 4.0.1 by default :P
[13:59]  * jpatrick off to school
[13:59] <apachelogger_> jpatrick: hf
[13:59] <Jucato> apachelogger_: I was going to request this be pushed upstream. but you read my mind :)
[14:00] <apachelogger_> hehe
[14:00] <Jucato> seele would be so happy :)
[14:10] <apachelogger_> stdin: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/
[14:10] <apachelogger_> woah Oo
[14:11] <apachelogger_> workspace is bug free :D
[14:11] <apachelogger_> woohoooo
[14:11]  * apachelogger_ takes his stress ball for a walk
[14:11] <stdin> "There are currently no open bugs." what a beautiful sentence that is :)
[14:12] <nosrednaekim> wow...
[14:24] <mooper> Hi cats
[14:40] <mooper> Is hardy still going to take 4 1/2 years to load?
[14:40] <mooper> as compared to gutsy
[14:40] <nosrednaekim> load?
[14:41] <mooper> yeah, boot into x
[14:41] <mooper> oh hullo nosrednaekim :)
[14:43] <Hobbsee> ah yes
[14:44]  * Hobbsee installs bootchart
[14:50] <Hobbsee> ppa builds failed.  please fix.
[15:10] <Riddell> vorian: thanks for the strigi sync request.  it helps to have 1 sentense saying why a sync is a good idea.  does strigi-applet need merged?
[15:10] <vorian> i'll check
[15:17] <vorian> Riddell: looks like itr
[15:17] <vorian> s/itr/it
[15:17] <Riddell> vorian: what's the diff? can it be synced?
[15:17] <vorian> there's a desktop entry patch w/ the new version
[15:18] <Riddell> vorian: fancy merging it?
[15:18] <vorian> sure
[15:19] <vorian> sync or merge?
[15:19] <bddebian> Heya
[15:19] <vorian> hey there bddebian :)
[15:20] <bddebian> Hello vorian
[15:20] <Riddell> vorian: merge if we still need the delta, sync if it can be dropped
[15:20] <vorian> roger
[15:38] <vorian> actually Riddell, you have the most recent changes in hardy.
[15:39] <Riddell> vorian: quite likely, doesn't mean I can remember what it is :)
[15:39] <vorian> :)
[15:40] <vorian> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/s/strigiapplet/strigiapplet_0.5.7-1ubuntu1/changelog
[15:43] <stdin> apachelogger_: -workspace is broken
[15:43] <stdin> Applying patch 54_improve_kickoff_button_highlight.diff
[15:43] <stdin> patching file plasma/applets/kickoff/ui/tabbar.cpp
[15:43] <stdin> Hunk #1 FAILED at 1.
[15:44] <Hobbsee> tasty.  testing ftw!
[15:48] <apachelogger_> bah
[15:52] <apachelogger_> but why Oo
[15:55] <apachelogger_> way too weird
[16:07] <apachelogger_> stdin: uploading a fix
[18:21] <toma> LongPointyStick: incognito today???
[18:27] <ScottK> toma: Sleeping.
[18:32]  * hunger needs to go and order a macbook air.
[19:14] <stdin> Riddell: do you know why plasma-playground depends on kde4base ?
[19:15] <toma> stdin: the plasma lib is in kde4base iirc
[19:15] <smarter> plasma is in kdebase
[19:15] <stdin> no the kde4base package not kdebase-workspace
[19:15] <stdin> kde4base isn't even in hardy
[19:16] <stdin> and it's 3.94.0-0ubuntu1 in gutsy
[19:16]  * toma hides
[19:16] <apachelogger> well
[19:16] <apachelogger> stdin: needs fixing
[19:16] <apachelogger> libplamsa it is nowadays
[19:17] <smarter> latest version of plasma-playground is 0.0svn20070907-0ubuntu3
[19:17] <smarter> there were no -workspace at this time
[19:17] <stdin> smarter: Depends: kdebase-workspace, kdelibs5, kdepimlibs5, libbz2-1.0, libc6 (>= 2.6-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.2.1), libice6 (>= 1:1.0.0), libqimageblitz4, libqt4-core (>= 4.3.1), libqt4-gui (>= 4.3.1), libsm6, libstdc++6 (>= 4.2.1), libstreamanalyzer0, libstreams0, libx11-6, libxau6, libxcursor1 (>> 1.1.2), libxdmcp6, libxext6, libxfixes3 (>= 1:4.0.1), libxft2 (>> 2.1.1), libxrender1, libxtst6, zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.3.3.dfsg-1), kde4base
[19:18] <smarter> I think I'll hide too :P
[19:19] <smarter> but playground plasmoids are really tests applets
[19:19] <smarter> now most of the plasmoids have moved to extragear
[19:24] <apachelogger> someone
[19:24] <apachelogger> update the snapshot
[19:25] <apachelogger> check whether a dep against libplasma is needed at all
[19:25] <apachelogger> if so, change kde4base to libplasma
[19:25] <apachelogger> then send me the srcs
[19:27] <apachelogger> oh
[19:29] <apachelogger> bah
[19:29] <apachelogger> ...
[19:45] <jpatrick> hi apachelogger
[19:46] <apachelogger> hallo jpatrick
[19:46]  * apachelogger has awful problems with his desktop
[19:46] <jpatrick> yep, me too
[19:46] <apachelogger> polly not as bad :P
[19:46] <apachelogger> gotta whipe my .kde*
[20:52] <apachelogger> stdin, Riddell: why is amarok 148 in the ppa?
[20:57] <jpatrick> apachelogger: test backport I think
[20:58] <apachelogger> hm, k
[21:06]  * nixternal tries again at qt jambi update
[21:07] <ryanakca> does the kde4.0 ppa repo also exist for hardy, or is that already in universe?
[21:08] <nixternal> it is already in universe
[21:08] <ryanakca> kk, thanks :)
[21:08] <stdin> the PPA is just backported packages from hardy anyway
[21:08]  * ryanakca is dist-upgrading :)
[21:08] <ryanakca> stdin: aaah :D
[21:09] <nixternal> jesus, people are really thick when it comes to understanding this whole "No LTS" thing
[21:10] <ryanakca> nixternal: eh, there's still trouble with that? I thought it was unofficially announced, whined/argued about already, and then accepted as a fact two weeks ago
[21:10] <stdin> s/when it comes to understanding this whole "No LTS" thing/
[21:10] <jpatrick> nixternal: even my comment on the bug report didn't work
[21:10] <nixternal> hehe
[21:11] <nixternal> or stdin's comments on kubuntu-users, or my comments on kubuntu-users
[21:11] <stdin> jpatrick: don't even bother any more, they just want to complain and moan to get attention because they suck
[21:11] <nixternal> one guy thinks he knows all
[21:11] <jpatrick> stdin: agreed
[21:11] <nixternal> granted, I think the decision to shy away from LTS was definitely the wrong thing to do for numerous reasons
[21:12] <nixternal> KDE 3.5 will be supported by KDE for at least another year minimum
[21:12] <nixternal> KDE 3.5 will be supported by Red Hat and Novell for another couple of years easily
[21:12] <stdin> we'd all have preferred to have had an LTS, but that's not going to happen
[21:12] <nixternal> Canonical stated at the developer summit that they want to cooperate and work closely with other distributions and upstream
[21:13] <nixternal> I just wish people would stop thinking it was our fault, and if they want to point a finger, at least point it correctly
[21:14] <LjL> which "people" are you thinking about? most "people" can hardly distinguish between the developers and the company that's behind
[21:14]  * alleeHol agrees with nixternal  (nothing  more on this 'no lts' from my side)
[21:15] <nixternal> then I referring to "most people" :)
[21:15] <LjL> well, it shouldn't be too surprising
[21:15] <nixternal> and if you are in the US, don't use the middle finger to point with, or the UK don't use the backwards peace sign :p
[21:15] <stdin> the kubuntu developers/members got blamed for everything last week. from 8.04 not being LTS, to Dolphin being the default file manager in KDE4...
[21:15] <nixternal> lol
[21:16] <nixternal> would be nice to have Dolphin as an "option", but then again that is because I am just a bit more advanced that "typical" new users
[21:17] <nixternal> actually, I have been using Dolphin in KDE 4 because Konqi isn't doing image previews
[21:17] <stdin> I just use konsole (or yakuake) for my file managing needs :p
[21:17] <nixternal> me too, but I like the previews for images in Konqi 3.5
[21:17] <nixternal> which Dolphin can do in 4.0 right now and Konqi can't
[21:17] <LjL> nixternal: it's pretty normal that the "simple" option is the default one and the "advanced" option has to be set up manually... kind of makes sense really. which is part of the reason why i think KDE 4 by default, *that* is a bad idea ;)
[21:18] <nixternal> we aren't doing KDE 4 by default
[21:18] <nixternal> that is another thing I wish people would get out of their heard
[21:18] <nixternal> you have 2 options:
[21:18] <nixternal> 1) KDE 3.5 by default
[21:18] <nixternal> 2) KDE 4.0 by default
[21:18] <LjL> eh? they can't be both "defaults"
[21:18] <nixternal> or 3) KDE 3.5 & KDE 4.0 living simultaneously in harmony
[21:19] <nixternal> sure they can, it is your choice
[21:19] <nixternal> option 1 is a KDE 3.5 CD, option 2 is a KDE 4.0 CD
[21:19] <LjL> then neither is default, they're two equal-level options
[21:19] <nixternal> option 3 is whatever one you grab, you can easily install its younger or older sibling
[21:19] <nixternal> you can still do either by default, just depends on which CD image you download
[21:19] <ScottK> nixternal: If one clicks on a link that says "Download Kubuntu", which do they get?
[21:20] <Lure> nixternal: Riddell mentioned that ShipIT will be kde4, so it would be at least the only choice there
[21:20] <nixternal> ScottK: right now? 3.5...but we will fix the links where you will have that option
[21:20] <yuriy> the kde 4 version could be like "Kubuntu NG" ; )
[21:20] <ScottK> nixternal: Option is fine, but "Download Kubuntu" should, IMO point to KDE3 image.
[21:20] <Lure> nixternal: so hardy kde 3.5 will have limited availability (download only)
[21:20] <ScottK> Lure: Yes.
[21:21] <nixternal> ScottK: why should we tell the person downloading Kubuntu to grab 3.5 when they may want 4.0?
[21:21] <nixternal> we give them that option
[21:21] <nixternal> Lure: ya, but I wouldn't look at shipit lasting that much longer anyways...they have really limited on the amount they ship anyways
[21:21] <ScottK> nixternal: I'm fine with one that says Kubuntu and one that says Kubuntu w/KDE4.0, but anyone who doesn't know they want KDE4, should get KDE3.
[21:22] <stdin> I think the "Download Kubuntu" should point to a page saying "Kubuntu with KDE 3" and "Kubuntu with KDE 4" ...
[21:22] <nixternal> exactly
[21:22] <Lure> nixternal: true that, and LoCo packs for kubuntu were prety limited
[21:22] <ScottK> stdin: If you are a new Kubuntu user, fresh from Windows, how do you have any idea which you want?
[21:22] <yuriy> or kubuntu extra stable edition and..
[21:22] <nixternal> ScottK: if we have what stdin just said, and explain the differences and the dangers, then it is fine
[21:22] <Lure> ScottK: I would agree with that (default being kde3.5 for download)
[21:22] <stdin> scottK: you'll have some text explaining it
[21:23] <ScottK> Bad idea.
[21:23] <Lure> ScottK: with special note (Kubuntu/KDE4)
[21:23] <nixternal> ScottK: you give them 2 options.... Option 1) Stable.... Option 2) Not so stable bleeding edge, not recommended for the faint of heart
[21:23] <yuriy> so default download and default shipit would be different?
[21:23] <ScottK> Anyone who doesn't know they want KDE4, should get KDE3.
[21:23] <yuriy> nixternal: not recommended for the faint of heard... because kde4 will blow you away
[21:23] <ScottK> No shipit at all for Kubuntu Hardy I thought?
[21:24] <Lure> yuriy: that is confusing indeed
[21:24] <Lure> :-(
[21:24] <nixternal> ScottK: go to ubuntu.com and select download, tell me whcih one a new user wants? 7.10, 6.06, Server, Live CD, Alternate, Gobuntu, i386, amd64
[21:24] <Lure> yuriy: but shipit is canonical, which we know we cannot influence much
[21:24] <nixternal> yuriy: no, because KDE 4 will eat your children :p
[21:24] <nixternal> Lure: s/much//
[21:24] <nixternal> :p
[21:25] <ScottK> KDE4 is a technology preview of interest to developers and enthusiasts.  It's not a complete, production ready system.
[21:25] <ScottK> We shouldn't mis-represent it.
[21:25] <nixternal> but it is still an option, and obviously a popular option as the recent week of downloads has been insane
[21:25] <nixternal> ScottK: who said we are mis-representing it?
[21:26] <Lure> ScottK: I am using it every day in production, so you are misleading ;-)
[21:26] <nixternal> hehe, same here actually
[21:26] <Lure> but I can fix it myself ;-)
[21:26] <ScottK> Exactly.
[21:26] <nixternal> and I just updated my eclipse plugins for KDE 4.0 kdelibs-apidox and Qt 4.3.3
[21:27] <ScottK> So you all are in the category of people that would know to ask for it.
[21:27]  * nixternal wonders if there is a KDE eclipse plugin because manually doing everything is a pita
[21:27] <ScottK> Joe average Windows user who wants to try Linux is probably not the best person to be trying out KDE4 right now.
[21:28] <nixternal> who are we to say? maybe they want to try Linux just to try KDE 4?
[21:28]  * apachelogger notes that he patched KDE 4 to a rock stable status :P
[21:28] <ScottK> In which case they'll know to click on the one that says KDE4.
[21:28] <nixternal> we live in a day and age where a great majority of the people actually research the pond before jumping into it
[21:29] <Lure> apachelogger: lol
[21:29]  * nixternal throws a broken deb at apachelogger 
[21:29] <apachelogger> meh, nothing br0ken currently :P
[21:29]  * Nightrose uses kde 4 only now and is very happy after apachelogger´s patch session
[21:29] <apachelogger> well
[21:29] <nixternal> about damn time :p
[21:29] <apachelogger> the icon fixes in workspace are actually br0ken due to the kde4-wrapper-cration transition
[21:30]  * nixternal wishes qtjambi used cmake...I would love to know how far it is into this build
[21:30]  * ScottK got the new hard drive for the laptop yesterdya, so once I get things re-installed, I expect to give it a try, but not to live in it.
[21:30] <Lure> apachelogger: you are still missing lots of patches from 4.0.x branch
[21:30]  * Lure is running self-compiled branch kde4
[21:30] <Lure> ;-)
[21:31] <nixternal> I would love to be able to remove KDE 3.5 totally except for the few KDE 3 apps that I use (Kontact and Amarok)
[21:31] <apachelogger> Lure: none reported the issues so I will not backport :P
[21:31] <apachelogger> ScottK: after we fixed the desktop file mess it's actually a pretty nice place to live in :D
[21:31] <Lure> nixternal: I am planning to move my wife from xp to kde4-only + thunderbird/firefox ;-)
[21:31] <ScottK> Until Kontact is ported, complete, and stable, I'll only be visiting.
[21:31] <nixternal> my only issue is that damn wallpaper not kicking in and leaving me with a white background on login sometimes
[21:32] <apachelogger> ScottK: good point, so KDE 4.1 it is :D
[21:32]  * Lure likes goals that I cannot make ;-)
[21:32] <nixternal> Kontact won't be until 4.1 probably unless they get akonadi quicker
[21:32] <ScottK> Which reinforces my point.
[21:32] <apachelogger> nixternal: even then they probably wouldn't get into 4.0
[21:32] <Lure> nixternal: report bug and apachelogger will fix it ;-)
[21:32] <ScottK> KDE4.0 isn't complete and shouldn't really be advertised for general use.
[21:32] <apachelogger> actually
[21:33] <Lure> nixternal: <apachelogger> Lure: none reported the issues so I will not backport :P
[21:33] <apachelogger> the white background issue is pure mistery to me
[21:33] <nixternal> Kontact Enterprise works fine for me the time being...I am debating on going back to Mutt or trying out Alpine
[21:33] <Lure> ScottK: agreed
[21:33] <nixternal> ScottK: +1
[21:33] <apachelogger> I even runned complete kde from konsole
[21:33] <apachelogger> plasma doesn't output anything that might have gone wrong
[21:33]  * ScottK thought I saw something recently about enterprise and 3.5.8 being merged back together.
[21:33] <apachelogger> nixternal: are you using composite stuff?
[21:33]  * toma hits nixternal hard
[21:33] <nixternal> Note: Some input files use or override a deprecated API.
[21:33] <nixternal> Note: Recompile with -Xlint:deprecation for details.
[21:33] <nixternal> Note: Some input files use unchecked or unsafe operations.
[21:34] <nixternal> Note: Recompile with -Xlint:unchecked for details.
[21:34] <nixternal> damnit jim!
[21:34] <nixternal> apachelogger: yes
[21:34] <Lure> apachelogger: background issue is fixed in branch
[21:34] <apachelogger> Lure: hm, will have to take a deep look into the source then
[21:34] <apachelogger> didn't find anything on first sight
[21:34]  * nixternal runs rm -rf mailody/
[21:34] <Lure> apachelogger: it is couple of commits though (wrong calls to config->sync())
[21:34] <Lure> afair
[21:35]  * nixternal takes that back, running 'svn remove mailody && svn commit -m 'muhahaha'
[21:35] <apachelogger> sounds like a reasonable issue
[21:35] <apachelogger> nixternal: lol
[21:35] <nixternal> like that would do anything, fdoving and toma have it checked out too :(
[21:35] <apachelogger> that ain't good for the karma :P
[21:35] <Lure> nixternal: hope it is on your branch, otherwise toma will hunt you ;-)
[21:36] <nixternal> Lure: I think I have threatened toma with that for over a year now :)
[21:36] <nixternal> in Debian, Kubuntu, KDE....
[21:36] <nixternal> I would be deleting my work too, so I wouldn't do that anyways
[21:36] <Lure> nixternal: oh, that is why he installed boxbackup ;-)
[21:36] <nixternal> hehe
[21:37] <toma> nixternal: what ever you do, i will keep loving you ;-)
[21:37] <nixternal> hehe
[21:37]  * toma tries another approach
[21:38] <nixternal> lol
[21:38] <nixternal> reverse psychology, I fell for it again!
[21:39]  * Lure watches macbook air video
[21:40] <alleeHol> Lure: cool, isn't it
[21:40] <nixternal> what is it?
[21:40] <alleeHol> nixternal: see yourself.  www.apple.com
[21:41] <nixternal> OMG LOVE
[21:41] <alleeHol> giggle
[21:41] <apachelogger> Lure: only small change for the background issue apparently: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=757616
[21:43] <ryanakca> wow, I finally hit 1mb/s for dowloading in apt :D
[21:43]  * Nightrose would be afraid to break that new mac book
[21:44]  * ryanakca seconds Nightrose's comment...
[21:44] <ryanakca> what's the battery life on that thing? an hour?
[21:45] <apachelogger> hm
[21:45] <_KeenEars_> hello room. was someone updating gutsy-backports recently?
[21:45] <apachelogger> I can't watch the ad
[21:45] <apachelogger> good thing
[21:45] <ryanakca> 5hrs... wow
[21:46] <Nightrose> _KeenEars_: whats the problem?
[21:46] <_KeenEars_> i mean there`s a problem - i can`t install kde4 because of some missing dependencies in packages file
[21:47] <_KeenEars_> like kdemultimedia-kde4
[21:47] <_KeenEars_> although all the files is in the pool
[21:47] <Lure> apachelogger: I recall there was more to it, will try to find it for you
[21:47] <apachelogger> Lure: just create bug reports, easier to track for us
[21:47] <apachelogger> _KeenEars_: what's the exact error message?
[21:49] <nixternal> Error: Yo' shiznit is dizbroke
[21:49] <Lure> apachelogger: on the other hand, 4.0.1 is planned for end of January, so not sure if it is worth it to backport much
[21:50] <nixternal> </snoop dog voice>
[21:50] <apachelogger> Lure: well, only stuff that bugs someone
[21:50] <apachelogger> at least that's what I do ;-)
[21:50] <Lure> apachelogger: and we agree that we do not care for stuff that bugs nixternal, right? ;-)
[21:50] <nixternal> hehe
[21:51] <_KeenEars_> huh well
[21:51]  * ScottK thoroughly enjoys stuff that bugs nixternal. ;-)
[21:51] <_KeenEars_> if you excuse the translated text
[21:51]  * apachelogger pets nixternal
[21:51] <apachelogger> Lure: have to think about that
[21:51] <_KeenEars_> kde4:
[21:51] <_KeenEars_>  \u0417\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0441\u0438\u0442: kde4-amusements \u043d\u043e \u043f\u0430\u043a\u0435\u0442 \u043d\u0435 \u0431\u0443\u0434\u0435\u0442 \u0443\u0441\u0442\u0430\u043d\u043e\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d
[21:51] <_KeenEars_>  \u0417\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0441\u0438\u0442: kdeaccessibility-kde4 \u043d\u043e \u043f\u0430\u043a\u0435\u0442 \u043d\u0435 \u0431\u0443\u0434\u0435\u0442 \u0443\u0441\u0442\u0430\u043d\u043e\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d
[21:51] <_KeenEars_>  \u0417\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0441\u0438\u0442: kdeadmin-kde4 \u043d\u043e \u043f\u0430\u043a\u0435\u0442 \u043d\u0435 \u0431\u0443\u0434\u0435\u0442 \u0443\u0441\u0442\u0430\u043d\u043e\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d
[21:51] <nixternal> hrmm, guess I need to figure out how to have dbus update wallpaper on login and then create a script :p
[21:51] <_KeenEars_>  \u0417\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0441\u0438\u0442: kdeartwork-kde4 \u043d\u043e \u043f\u0430\u043a\u0435\u0442 \u043d\u0435 \u0431\u0443\u0434\u0435\u0442 \u0443\u0441\u0442\u0430\u043d\u043e\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d
[21:51] <nixternal> omg
[21:51] <_KeenEars_>  \u0417\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0441\u0438\u0442: kdemultimedia-kde4 (>=4:4.0.0) but it is not installable
[21:51] <_KeenEars_>  \u0417\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0441\u0438\u0442: kdenetwork-kde4 (>=4:4.0.0) but it is not installable
[21:51] <stdin> holy cow!
[21:51] <_KeenEars_>  \u0417\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0441\u0438\u0442: kdeutils-kde4 (>=4:4.0.0) but it is not installable
[21:51] <nixternal> MY EYES
[21:51] <_KeenEars_> oh
[21:51] <apachelogger> -.-
[21:51] <stdin> ok stop now please
[21:51] <nixternal> #@#@! I AM BLIND
[21:51] <apachelogger> lovely
[21:51] <_KeenEars_> sorry
[21:51] <jpatrick> !paste > _KeenEars_
[21:51] <nixternal> you have to take that unicode and convert it apachelogger :p
[21:52] <nixternal> jpatrick: to late for that :p
[21:52] <ScottK> !pastebin | _KeenEars_
[21:52] <ubotu> _KeenEars_: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[21:52] <stdin> _KeenEars_: disable gutsy-backports and only use the PPA
[21:52] <apachelogger> Lure: now we don't care... nixternal doesn't see his desktop anymore :P
[21:52] <_KeenEars_> stupid utf translation
[21:52] <_KeenEars_> i`m so sorry...
[21:52] <Lure> apachelogger: you can just close the bug in next upload's changelog ;-)
[21:52] <stdin> _KeenEars_: for future reference you can make apt (and most command line apps) use english with "LANG=C <command>"
[21:53] <_KeenEars_> ok
[21:53] <apachelogger> Lure: will do, as saied, the icons are br0ken which sux
[21:53] <apachelogger> stdin: any stuff for workspace?
[21:53] <Lure> apachelogger: yep, they are not much better in branch too
[21:54] <_KeenEars_> yiu know, it`s NX who do that %)
[21:54] <Lure> apachelogger: btw, does kdm-kde4 works now (last time config was not included)
[21:54] <stdin> apachelogger: nope, workspace is clear for mw
[21:54] <stdin> *me
[21:54] <apachelogger> Lure: stdin did quite some work on it
[21:54] <stdin> Lure: I'm pretty sure I fixed that, needs a testing
[21:55] <Lure> stdin: you rock
[21:55]  * Lure was looking into it, but then got stuck with real life issues
[21:57] <_KeenEars_> so here how it looks like : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/52059/
[21:57] <ScottK> BTW, as one of the people who run ubuntu-backports, I'd greatly appreciate it if you all didn't leave it broken.
[21:59] <_KeenEars_> i`ve looke into pool to find the packages is all there. The looked at backports/packages and haven`t find any descriptions of the packages that missing
[21:59] <_KeenEars_> *are missing
[22:04] <_KeenEars_> stdin: actually i`m doing mirroring for some giveaways. what do you mean: use PPA ?
[22:04] <stdin> see the topic of #kubuntu
[22:05] <_KeenEars_> heh. ty =)
[22:05] <apachelogger> ScottK: what does one have to do to become member of the backports team?
[22:05]  * nixternal so wants a macbook air
[22:06]  * apachelogger so wants Nightrose's laptop
[22:06] <Nightrose> oO
[22:06] <Lure> which is?
[22:06] <Nightrose> noone wants my laptop
[22:06] <Nightrose> Lure: a hoibble old thing ;-)
[22:06] <Lure> ;-)
[22:06] <Nightrose> *horrible
[22:07] <Nightrose> but it has an ubuntu and kubuntu sticker :P
[22:07] <Nightrose> which makes it _very_ pretty
[22:07] <Lure> Nightrose: now I know why apachelogger wants it ;-)
[22:07] <Nightrose> haha
[22:07] <Nightrose> yea
[22:07] <apachelogger> well - I am a sticker addicted
[22:08] <apachelogger> can't do anything about it
[22:08] <Lure> Nightrose: you should sell it to apachelogger for price of macbook air - it is all about marketing ;-)
[22:08] <Nightrose> Lure: *lol* nah I can´t do that to apachelogger
[22:08] <apachelogger> right
[22:08]  * Nightrose is too good a girl for that *g*
[22:08] <Lure> apachelogger: because your are sniffing adhesive? ;-)
[22:08] <apachelogger> we will marry soon anyway
[22:08] <ScottK> apachelogger: Be a MOTU and talk to jdong
[22:08] <apachelogger> then it's partly mine
[22:08] <Nightrose> right - so it is his anyway
[22:08] <Nightrose> why sell it..
[22:08] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:09] <apachelogger> Oo
[22:09] <apachelogger> ScottK: now that is too easy :P
[22:09] <Lure> Nightrose: you should sell it now, then it is yours again ;-)
[22:09] <apachelogger> pfft
[22:09] <Nightrose> Lure: rofl - you are one good salesperson are you?
[22:10] <apachelogger> more like a usurer IMO
[22:10] <Lure> Nightrose: not really, at least not at work ;-)
[22:10] <apachelogger> hm
[22:10] <Nightrose> hehe
[22:10] <apachelogger> lol
[22:10] <apachelogger> dh_install: amarok2 missing files (*), aborting
[22:11] <Nightrose> hmm /me thinks about abusing the laptop as IRC terminal...
[22:11] <apachelogger> too slow for that
[22:12] <Nightrose> hehe probably
[22:12] <Nightrose> and the keyboard sometimes doesn´t work
[22:12] <apachelogger> lol
[22:12] <apachelogger> ver nice feature
[22:12] <apachelogger> +y
[22:12] <Nightrose> indeed ;-)
[22:13] <apachelogger> hmmm
[22:13] <apachelogger> muhahahahaahahahahahahahaahaha
[22:13] <apachelogger> MUAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA
[22:13] <apachelogger>  Package: amarok2
[22:13] <apachelogger>  Version: 1.9.79.1-0ubuntu1
[22:13] <apachelogger> :P
[22:14] <ryanakca> Nightrose: how old is it?
[22:14] <Nightrose> ryanakca: ~6 years
[22:14] <Nightrose> I think
[22:14] <ryanakca> ouch
[22:14] <Nightrose> jep
[22:14] <Nightrose> and I got it second hand
[22:15] <nixternal> time for school....see y'all later :)
[22:15] <ryanakca> ouch... so is the 6 years including before you got it?
[22:15] <ryanakca> see ya nixternal :)
[22:15] <Nightrose> bye nixternal
[22:15] <Nightrose> ryanakca: jep I have it for around 4 or 3
[22:15] <Nightrose> think 4 now
[22:15] <ryanakca> ah...
[22:16]  * ryanakca twiddles while aptitude dist-upgrade runs
[22:16]  * ryanakca really should upgrade his server...
[22:16] <ryanakca> it's still running dapper
[22:16] <Nightrose> hehe
[22:16] <ryanakca> 262 day uptime D:
[22:16] <ryanakca> :D
[22:16] <Nightrose> nice
[22:17] <ryanakca> see... but I'm kinda afraid I'll break it... if it ain't broken, don't fix it type thing...
[22:17] <apachelogger> hm
[22:17] <apachelogger> ok
[22:17] <apachelogger> that conversation sounds really weird
[22:17] <apachelogger> when not reading that it is about a serva
[22:17] <apachelogger> ...really
[22:17] <Nightrose> haha
[22:17] <ryanakca> lol
[22:18] <apachelogger> 262 day uptime would be quite some record then ;-)
[22:18] <Nightrose> apachelogger: rofl... - if you only knew what amarok is playing here right now
[22:18]  * ryanakca nods
[22:18] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I don't wanna know, mine is br0ken
[22:18]  * apachelogger is kinda pissed @ amarok1
[22:18] <Nightrose> :P
[22:18] <ryanakca> I've been putting off rebooting for the kernel's several security fixes...
[22:19] <apachelogger> Nightrose: is jeff on vacation or something?
[22:19] <Nightrose> apachelogger: kde4 release event - he left a few hours ago IIRC
[22:19] <apachelogger> bah
[22:19] <apachelogger> so he will be drunken for the next 2 weeks
[22:19] <Nightrose> at least
[22:19] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:20] <apachelogger> awful
[22:20]  * apachelogger hopes eean can find something
[22:20]  * Nightrose too
[22:20] <apachelogger> the strange thing is... it worked with my selfcompiled KDE 4
[22:20] <apachelogger> I don't really see why it doesn't with the packages
[22:20] <Nightrose> though I still wonder why my collection is fine after a rescan and yours is borked
[22:21] <apachelogger> it's not blocked
[22:21] <apachelogger> I just see why I should rescan instead of fix it :P
[22:21] <Nightrose> ah ok
[22:21] <Nightrose> good.. - then fix it ;-)
[22:21] <apachelogger> I should be learning maths :P
[22:21] <Nightrose> or hope for jef to return
[22:21] <apachelogger> well
[22:21] <apachelogger> actually I should go shower
[22:21] <apachelogger> or rather, take the stress ball for a walk first
[22:22] <Nightrose> hehe
[22:22]  * ryanakca hunts for his stress ball
[22:22]  * ryanakca grumbles at this being the crunch time in the semester
[22:22]  * Nightrose does not have one and should get one
[22:23] <apachelogger> stdin: oh, btw, I was right, desktop files in kde4 pocket will override those in the XDG pocket
[22:23] <apachelogger> just installed amarok2 which now overrides amarok1
[22:23] <apachelogger> Nightrose: can have one of mine, I got my self plenty of them ;-)
[22:23] <apachelogger> always have one in reach
[22:23] <apachelogger> anyway
[22:24]  * apachelogger takes one for a walk
[22:24] <Nightrose> hehe bring one to fosdem
[22:30]  * ryanakca wonders at the idea of running only Debian Unstable, and contributing all his stuff to Debian for Ubuntu, instead of running Ubuntu, contributing to Debian, and then waiting for a few months for it to show up, etc.
[22:33] <ScottK> Depends on how unstable you like it.
[22:34] <ScottK> Running unstable is a lot like running the Ubuntu development release all the time.
[22:34] <ScottK> Only you never know when it'll be like the early part of the cycle or that late part of the cycle.
[22:34] <ScottK> Every day is a new day.
[22:48] <claydoh> kinda off topic, but I have "extra" copies of half life 2 and hl2, episode1 available to give away in my steam account
[22:48] <claydoh> anyone interested in them?
[22:50] <stdin> good god I hate the kubuntu-users@
[22:50] <stdin> that is all.
[22:50] <claydoh> oh yeah
[22:51] <claydoh> but if enough of us ignore him, he does shut up
[22:51] <claydoh> eventually
[22:52]  * claydoh goes back to ketting killed in the game
[22:52] <stdin> 2 trolls will work off each other
[22:53] <stdin> but the people on the list seem to thing they know everything, even when they are proven wrong. but I'm just going to shut up now before I get more annoyed
[22:54] <ryanakca> ScottK: hmm... see... I look for something towards the middle of our cycle everyday... it's unstable, it has problems that I can report / have fun with, but it's somewhat stable
[22:59]  * ryanakca twiddles while aptitude dist-upgrade keeps running
[23:03] <Lure> kde4 laptop users: do you get Suspend/Hibernate option in kickoff's Leave menu?
[23:04] <Nightrose> Lure: if you need it I can start my laptop - takes a while though so if someone else can check it easier...
[23:04] <Lure> Nightrose: no need, sure there are probably others around
[23:05] <Nightrose> k
[23:05] <Lure> otherwise it can also wait, as I will get to sleep soon ;-)
[23:05] <hads> Lure: I don't.
[23:05]  * Nightrose should too but I need to get this talk done
[23:05] <Nightrose> at least the concept is done now
[23:09] <xRaich[o]2x> Lure: i don't have that option either
[23:09] <Lure> hads, xRaich[o]2x: no pb, will ask tommorow
[23:09]  * Lure -> bed
[23:09] <Lure> night all
[23:09] <xRaich[o]2x> n8
[23:09] <Nightrose> night :)
[23:10] <hads> nn
[23:10] <ScottK> ryanakca: Maybe Sid then.
[23:18] <Riddell> stdin: plasma playground is ancient, it can be deleted
[23:19] <_KeenEars_> so, when finally can we await kde4 in -backports?
[23:19] <_KeenEars_> roughly
[23:20] <stdin> Riddell: it's in gutsy/universe, I saw some try installing it in -kde4
[23:21] <uga> guys,... there's a rather newb person who just installed kde4 packs (betas I guess) provided by kubuntu. I'm worried, because his $(KDEHOME) isn't stablished properly to something like .kde4
[23:21] <stdin> _KeenEars_: it's in there now, but it's not as up-to-date as the backporting process is slow. stick to the PPA for now if you want all the new fixes, or else remove the PPA repository and only use -backports
[23:21] <uga> which means, by default it'll go to .kde
[23:21] <Riddell> stdin: it got replaced by extragear-plasma
[23:21] <uga> and overwrite all kde3 config files
[23:21] <uga> that may end up messing up the system badly, right?
[23:21] <fdoving> uga: that happens if he sets $KDEHOME somewhere.
[23:22] <fdoving> yes. it may not, it will. I've tried.
[23:22] <uga> fdoving: it's empty for him
[23:22] <uga> I was asking him to go $KDEHOME/share/config...
[23:22] <uga> but it tried going /share/config
[23:22] <uga> the default should go .kde
[23:22] <fdoving> oh, funny.
[23:23] <uga> well, it'll be funny if it doesnt' break anything ;)
[23:23] <fdoving> no wait, that is correct.
[23:23] <fdoving> $KDEHOME should be empty.
[23:23] <uga> then it'll write al config files in .kde
[23:23] <fdoving> that way .kde4/ will be used. iirc.
[23:23] <_KeenEars_> stdin: i can`t install it from backports anyway, i`ll try to mirror PPA for the time
[23:23] <uga> fdoving: are you sure? it defaults to .kde4???
[23:24] <stdin> uga: kde4libs is patched to default to ~/.kde4
[23:24] <fdoving> uga: yeah, kdelibs-kde4 is patched to default to .kde4/ if $KDEHOME is not set. so if it was set that would be an error.
[23:24] <_KeenEars_> at least it isn`t there this week, so i`d update it next time.
[23:24] <uga> stdin: ahk, so it's a kubuntu specific thing. Thanks
[23:24] <uga> fdoving: ok, cheers
[23:24] <fdoving> uga: i belive suse does this in a similar way.
[23:31] <blizzzek> gn8