[00:24] <matteo> hi all
[00:24] <matteo> E: aacplusenc_0.13_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy
[00:24] <matteo> what I have to specify instead of gutsy?
[00:25] <mjg59> For a new package? Hardy.
[00:27] <matteo> mjg59: i'm using PPA
[00:27] <matteo> the personal package thing
[00:27] <matteo> dunno if I can upload packages for hardy yet
[00:27] <matteo> *already
[00:29] <matteo> another thing
[00:29] <matteo> i upgraded from gutsy to hardy
[00:29] <matteo> but now i have lost my gpg keys
[00:46] <matteo> why debsign can't find them after upgrade?
[00:46] <matteo> $ echo $DEBEMAIL
[00:46] <matteo> rootkit85@yahoo.it
[00:47] <matteo> $ gpg --list-key |fgrep rootkit
[00:47] <matteo> uid                  Matteo Croce (Rave is not a crime!) <rootkit85@yahoo.it>
[00:47] <StevenK> Because you have a comment in the key
[00:47] <matteo> really=
[00:47] <StevenK> Matteo Croce <rootkit85@yahoo.it> != Matteo Croce (Rave is not a crime!) <rootkit85@yahoo.it>
[00:48] <matteo> but gpg asked for one
[00:48] <slangasek> --list-key does not tell you whether the secret key is available, anyway; but StevenK's probably right with his guess that the uid doesn't match what's in your changelog
[00:48] <matteo> mm, ok
[00:49] <matteo> and I guess I can't edit it
[00:50] <StevenK> matteo: I think you can.
[00:50] <matteo> can I do it in kgpg?
[00:50] <matteo> i dunno much about gpg
[00:50] <StevenK> matteo: It prompts for a comment, enter will set no comment
[00:51] <matteo> StevenK: i mean, editing the existing one
[00:52] <slangasek> you should add a new one and expire the old one
[00:52] <slangasek> by "a new one" I mean a new uid, not a new PGP key
[00:53] <matteo> ah, ok
[00:53] <matteo> tnx
[00:55] <kurt> hello do you think there will be fixes for the marvell atheros cards in the future?
[00:57] <kurt>  i can't get my atheros marvell card to work.  ndiswrapper tells me that the driver is invalid
[01:00]  * bddebian tries to beg slangasek or StevenK to join the games team :-)
[01:01] <slangasek> um?
[01:01] <StevenK> bddebian: You can't afford my rates.
[01:01] <matteo> slangasek: aren't you a debian maintainer?
[01:01] <matteo> teh gcc one?
[01:02] <slangasek> I'm not a gcc maintainer
[01:02] <mjj29> slangasek: I think they are short on obscure consonants, and want to collect the set
[01:02] <slangasek> mjj29: seems fair
[01:02] <bddebian> Bah, I give up :-(
[01:03] <StevenK> bddebian: In all seriousness, I have enough to do without another thing to ignore.
[01:03] <bddebian> I know, I'm just whinging
[01:04] <matteo> ok i'll create a new key
[01:04] <matteo> DSA and Elgamal is fine?
[01:06] <ToyKeeper> matteo: <slangasek> by "a new one" I mean a new uid, not a new PGP key
[01:06] <matteo> yes but I made a mess
[01:10] <matteo> has ubuntu a keyserver?
[01:11] <matteo> keyserver.ubuntu.com
[01:11] <matteo> found
[07:39] <pitti> Good morning
[07:40] <Hobbsee> morning pitti!
[07:40] <Hobbsee> pitti: FWIW, apt installs new recommends by default, when upgrading the metapackages
[07:40] <Hobbsee> didn't check update manager
[07:40] <Hobbsee> (no idea if you got your answer from mvo)
[07:42] <Kalamansi> hello is there any way to minize setting of pc2 and pc3? like i will not put my isp's dns? pc1 is my server and i have no router. pc2 and pc3 can connect to the internet with assigned ip,gateway,subnet and dns of my isp..how to minimize this without setting my isp's dns? i dont want to expose my dns to the public...
[07:46] <pitti> Hobbsee: yeah, I got it; thank you
[08:00] <dholbach> good morning
[08:17] <desertc> Just wondering if anyone ever considered using bit-torrent for the synaptic package distribution?
[08:19] <ToyKeeper> jigdo
[08:19] <ToyKeeper> Not quite the same idea, but... closest thing I know of which is used for it.
[08:21] <ToyKeeper> Bittorrent doesn't easily handle seeding a large, oft-changing set of files.  You can do a large static set as a batch, or a small dynamic set individually...
[08:22] <desertc> Interesting.  Thanks for the insight.  I was pondering apt-get cache servers tonight.
[08:22] <Hobbsee> morning seb128
[08:22] <seb128> hello Hobbsee
[09:05] <\sh> hmm...is it me, or is debootstrap not working for any debian release anymore? deboostrap lenny dir/ doesn't work...Retrieving Release that's it
[09:17] <pitti> dholbach: what do the numbers in parentheses mean on http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/index.html ?
[09:18] <dholbach> pitti: age of the subscription
[09:18] <dholbach> in days
[09:18] <pitti> ah
[09:19] <geser> good morning
[09:21] <pitti> hey geser
[09:21] <geser> Hi dholbach, pitti
[09:23] <dholbach> hiya geser
[09:29] <seb128> carlos: hey
[09:29] <seb128> carlos: any news of the hardy translations?
[09:30] <carlos> seb128: the imports are still running
[09:30] <carlos> although I guess we could start preparing language packs, will not include everything
[09:31] <carlos> but is an option now
[09:31]  * carlos checks the queue
[09:31] <seb128> how long is it going to get everything imported?
[09:33] <asac> carlos: you think we could get mozilla translations going in launchpad? maybe we want to start and try firefox-3.0/xulrunner-1.9? or maybe something smaller - like ubufox?
[09:33] <carlos> seb128: it's hard to estimate it
[09:34] <seb128> hey asac
[09:34] <asac> hey seb128
[09:34] <seb128> asac: did you get all the epiphany-browser xulrunner 1.9 commited upstream?
[09:34] <seb128> asac: there is a new version, just asking before looking if patches can be dropped or need to be updated
[09:34] <carlos> seb128: although we have 19900 entries pending to be imported and we imported already 40400 since last Wednesday
[09:35] <seb128> carlos: so everything should be imported this week
[09:35] <carlos> seb128: I would say two or three more days
[09:35] <carlos> yeah
[09:35] <asac> seb128: all code-changes iirc ... the build system notyet, because we landed improvements to pkg-config that make things less patchy.
[09:35] <seb128> asac: ok
[09:35] <asac> seb128: i will update the patch for us ... maybe update xulrunner before to get the latest build infrastructure
[09:36] <seb128> asac: ok, I'll wait for now then, there is no hurry, thanks
[09:36] <carlos> asac: I want to resume firefox work next week or so when I'm back to translations work, I'm not working in translations this month...
[09:36] <carlos> asac: so I would say that we could do it soon, yes
[09:38] <asac> carlos: ok, just want to be sure that we can get issues shaken out in time for the hardy release.
[09:38] <carlos> that's the idea, yes...
[09:39] <asac> carlos: ok i will bug you regularly from now on then :)
[09:40] <carlos> asac: don't worry to ping me often :-)
[09:41] <asac> carlos: we face a new peculiarity: not all translations are in firefox anymore; most texts are now in xulrunner-1.9. unfortunately upstream probably won't split the translations for us so we have to figure something out.
[09:44] <carlos> so it's a different package?
[09:44] <asac> yes
[09:48] <asac> carlos: but the keys of the xulrunner entities should match the ones distributed by the default firefox locales. so using those to populate launchpad with default translations should still work, right?
[09:48] <carlos> asac: where are the English strings?
[09:48] <asac> in the packages
[09:48] <carlos> in xulrunner ?
[09:49] <asac> parts are in firefox-3.0 ... the rest is in xulrunner-1.9
[09:49] <asac> the .xpis distributed by upstream will contain translations for both
[09:50] <carlos> so to get an standard English only installation
[09:50] <carlos> I still need firefox + xulrunner ?
[09:50] <carlos> that would be a bit more complicate to handle... but still possible
[09:51] <carlos> because as you pointed, we have the shared ids to link messages with translations
[09:51] <asac> why would that be a problem?
[09:51] <asac> i mean: you import xulrunner en-US  + firefox en-US ... then you have all the ids
[09:52] <carlos> not a problem, just a bit more difficult
[09:52] <carlos> because templates come from a single package in our current system
[09:52] <carlos> and in this case we have two packages
[09:53] <carlos> that we should convine to get the list of strings to translate
[09:53] <asac> but ... why not just treat it as if it was two independent packages
[09:53] <carlos> hmm
[09:53] <carlos> does it mean that we will end having two different translation packages?
[09:53] <asac> yes
[09:53] <carlos> aah
[09:53] <carlos> then it's quite simple ;-)
[09:53] <carlos> I misunderstood you
[09:53] <asac> the funny thing is that the default translations come from one .xpi
[09:54] <asac> e.g. one huge nl-NL.xpi
[09:54] <asac> but we export to xulrunner-locale-nl and firefox-locale-nl for instance
[10:00] <carlos> asac: hmm, ok, if the template (en-US) is in different packages
[10:00] <carlos> asac: it should be easy to handle that
[10:01] <asac> if you mean ubuntu package by "package" then thats the case yes.
[10:01] <asac> fine
[10:03] <carlos> asac: I mean source package
[10:03] <carlos> for translations we work with source packages
[10:09] <asac> carlos: ok ... we have two sources as well.
[10:09] <carlos> ok
[10:27] <dan_> longshot: anyone seen an issue where after you kill one process that's listening on one port, then somehow the next highest PID starts listening on that port??
[10:39] <Mithrandir> this libflickrnet fuckup is getting annoying.
[10:39] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: it should be fixed, i thought.
[10:39] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: iz not for me.
[10:39] <Hobbsee> do you have the new mono stuff?
[10:39] <Hobbsee> poke bigon` over it - he's dealing with ti
[10:40] <cjwatson> \sh: try with a different mirror
[10:40] <Mithrandir> bigon`: yo.  ;  ^^
[10:40] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: uh, unsure?  I just see the flickrnet thingy blowing up and taking all the shiny mono stuff with it.
[10:41] <Hobbsee> hm
[10:42] <Mithrandir> ah, it worked when I told it to install libflickrnet first and then the rest
[10:42] <Hobbsee> yay, gnome-do is installable again!
[10:47] <\sh> cjwatson, I tried ftp.de.debian.org the same...a normal http or ftp session works like a charm
[10:48] <cjwatson> \sh: 'sudo debootstrap lenny lenny http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian' WFM
[10:49] <cjwatson> (at least it starts retrieving Packages; I'm rebuilding my mirrors at the moment so I can't do a full run)
[10:49] <\sh> cjwatson, yes...it starts retrieving packages...but regarding /usr/share//debootstrap/scripts/sid it should do it, too...but it doesn't do as been told ;)
[10:51] <\sh> cjwatson, and as a test I changed the default_mirror in scripts/sid to point to ftp.de.debian.org and this even doesn't work...so I wonder whats wrong
[10:52] <cjwatson> your error messages are not terribly clear ...
[10:52] <cjwatson> might be worth looking in $target/debootstrap/debootstrap.log to see if there's anything interesting there
[10:53] <\sh> cjwatson, it's empty ...and debootstrap itself stays at : I: Retrieving Release
[10:53] <\sh> cjwatson, invoking deboostrap as "sudo deboostrap lenny $HOME/chroots/lenny/" with another mirror url at the end, it works
[10:53] <Mithrandir> I just saw that against archive.u.c with wget stalling on a connect to one of the machines in the DC.
[10:54] <\sh> but "sudo debootstrap gutsy $HOME/chroots/gutsy/" works like a charm...
[10:57] <cjwatson> \sh: erm, I think I misunderstood your statements above. Could you please restate these bits in different words?
[10:58] <cjwatson> 10:49 <\sh> cjwatson, yes...it starts retrieving packages...but regarding /usr/share//debootstrap/scripts/sid it should do it, too...but it doesn't do as been told ;)
[10:58] <cjwatson> 10:51 <\sh> cjwatson, and as a test I changed the default_mirror in scripts/sid to point to ftp.de.debian.org and this even doesn't work...so I wonder whats wrong
[10:58] <\sh> cjwatson, debootstrap sid sid/ http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian works
[10:58] <cjwatson> \sh: ok
[10:58] <\sh> cjwatson, deboostrap sid sid/  doesn't work
[10:58] <cjwatson> \sh: if you read /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/sid more closely you'll see that the default mirror set there is only for architectures other than amd64 and i386
[10:59] <cjwatson> the "real" default is in /usr/sbin/debootstrap
[10:59] <cjwatson> so either this is temporary breakage on ftp.debian.org, or we need to switch to a different mirror
[10:59] <cjwatson> given the recent "stop using ftp.debian.org please, use a mirror" announcement on debian-devel-announce I suspect the latter
[10:59] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: when will the new seed structures be done?
[10:59] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: no ETA yet, sorry
[10:59] <cjwatson> before feature freeze though
[11:00] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: right.  they're blocking kde4 hardy cds :(
[11:00] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: any useful way of someone else helping out?
[11:00] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: not at the moment, sorry, I'll try to make progress this week
[11:00] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: OK, cool.
[11:03] <cjwatson> \sh: I've changed the default to ftp.us.debian.org in d-i svn
[11:04] <\sh> cjwatson, grmpf...or much better we set the default mirrors in deboostrap/scripts/<releasename> without setting a default in /usr/sbin/deboostrap?
[11:05] <cjwatson> I don't see why it makes a difference.
[11:06] <cjwatson> the method exposed to users for setting the mirror is on the command line. only debootstrap developers should care where it lives in the code.
[11:21] <\sh> mvo, ping cdrkit debdiff, just remove the versioning from the conflicts/replaces...so it matches all cdrtools versions
[11:22] <mvo> \sh: thanks, I look at it after lunch :)
[11:24]  * soren lunches
[11:28]  * pitti uploads a better python-distutils-extra to Debian and Ubuntu; enjoy
[11:33] <cjwatson> \sh: I've uploaded debootstrap 1.0.8, which fixes the default mirror
[11:33] <\sh> cjwatson, thx :)
[11:33] <\sh> mvo, I'll prepare a new debdiff for cdrkit ;)
[11:35] <selckin> why doesn't any package install a dummy /etc/hosts with localhost in it when you use deboostrap?
[11:41] <\sh> mvo, debdiff updated...see bug ;)
[11:43] <ogra> grmbl ....
[11:44]  * ogra was wondering why his daily rsync took so long ... 
[11:44] <ogra> i hate downloading in wrong dirs
[12:07] <ogra> grrr .... i fix one breakage and another shows up .... i need a working daily, damned ...
[12:07] <ogra> seb128, do you care for vinagre ?
[12:07] <ogra> seems it needs libgtk-vnc
[12:07] <ogra> (which is not on the CD)
[12:08] <seb128> ogra: it's a GNOME depends but I think soren has interest in it since the server team use it or something
[12:09] <soren> I use vinagre from time to time, yes.
[12:10] <soren> It doesn't belong in main, though. It's got a bunch of annoying bugs, but it's the only standalone VNC client that uses gtk-vnc, which is the only vnc implementation with the new input extensions that I use in kvm.
[12:11] <soren> If something tries to pull it into main, it should get some love first. I have 5-6 ways to make it crash.
[12:11] <ogra> well, either libgtk-vnc goes to main or vinagre goes to universe
[12:11] <soren> ogra: Why is vinagre in main?
[12:11] <persia> soren: Dependency of the new seeds, no?
[12:12] <soren> ogra: I actually think libgtk-vnc should be in main (I'll need it shortly), but I have no problem with vinagre moving to universe.
[12:12] <soren> persia: Well, than "why was it seeded?" is my question :)
[12:13] <ogra> soren, s/should/shouldn't/ ?
[12:13]  * ogra fails to understad the sentence
[12:13] <ogra> you want the lib in main but vinagre in universe ?
[12:15] <pochu> 13:10 <     soren> If something tries to pull it into main, it should get some love first. I have 5-6 ways to make it crash. <--- report them please? :)
[12:16] <ogra> ah
[12:16] <soren> pochu: I'll get to it.. :)
[12:17] <soren> ogra: Yes.
[12:17] <soren> ogra: I have other stuff, that I'd like to have moved to main that uses gtk-vnc.
[12:17] <ogra> ah
[12:17] <soren> ogra: vinagre, otoh, is not mature enough, IMO.
[12:17] <ogra> well, in any case the lin needs to be promoted then
[12:17] <pochu> soren: hint: use apport ;)
[12:17] <ogra> *lib
[12:18] <ogra> (which vinagre is already, someone approved the MIR)
[12:18] <soren> O_O
[12:19] <ogra> (my prob is that it breaks the daily CDs in that state atm)
[12:19]  * soren is looking forward to having his DSL line upgraded to 2 MBit upstream
[12:20] <ogra> soren, that helps :)
[12:20] <ogra> i have it since dec.
[12:20] <soren> Oh, vinagre 0.4 is out. That might fix a lot of the problems.
[12:20]  * soren takes it for a spin
[12:21] <ogra> dholbach, ping ...
[12:22] <dholbach> ogra: pong
[12:22] <ogra> dholbach, is there any truth in the comment QFunk made on bug 182941 ? seems OpenSuSE just changes the dep with no further patches
[12:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182941 in planner "Planner needs transition from libgda2-dev to libgda3-dev" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182941
[12:23] <dholbach> ogra: try to build it with libgda3-dev
[12:23] <ogra> thats what i'm doing atm :)
[12:29] <persia> soren: There's a vinagre upgrade bug floating about with it already packaged, if you haven't seen it yet.
[12:31] <soren> persia: Hmm.. why hasn't it been uploaded?
[12:31] <pochu> It's in Debian NEW too.
[12:31] <persia> I think it was targeted for a sync
[12:31] <pochu> Once it's newed, right.
[12:32] <soren> Can I fetch it from Debian somehow? I forget. :(
[12:32] <pochu> soren: the source or the binaries?
[12:32] <pochu> soren: I have binaries for hardy, if you want them
[12:32] <soren> source. I found it.
[12:33] <soren> ...or I thought I did.
[12:33] <soren> pochu: Where can I find the sources?
[12:33] <pochu> sec
[12:35] <pochu> soren: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/vinagre_0.4-1.dsc
[12:35] <soren> pochu: Got it. Thanks.
[12:36] <pochu> No need to thank me, just report bugs! ;)
[12:36] <soren> pochu: Well, let's see if it's necessary :)
[12:37] <pochu> There's only one crash report in LP, and it was with 0.3...
[12:38] <stgraber> seb128: After updating my evolution to the one you uploaded yesterday I can't connect using SSL to my IMAP server ... known issue ? (that's on amd64)
[12:39] <seb128> stgraber: no
[12:40] <stgraber> seb128: hmm, ok I'll create a clean user and check that it happens too
[12:40] <seb128> stgraber: looks like a good idea
[12:45] <soren> pochu: Ah.. apport refuses to let me report the bug as the package is not a genuine Ubuntu package.
[12:45] <ogra> ARGH !!!
[12:45] <ogra> Mithrandir, how exactly did you make libflickr install ?
[12:46]  * ogra thought the mono upload he sponsored was supposed to fix that
[12:46] <ogra> *sigh*
[12:46] <Mithrandir> ogra: just do apt-get install libflickr-whatever first
[12:46] <ogra> sounds like a missing dep then
[12:46]  * ogra tries
[12:47] <ogra> nope
[12:47] <pochu> soren: heh. I'll ping you once it's synced then :)
[12:47] <pochu> soren: or report it upstream ;)
[12:47] <soren> pochu: I've just reported it on Launchpad. bug 183169
[12:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 183169 in vinagre "Crash if hostname contains invalid characters" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183169
[12:47] <geser> didn't work for me, I tried to remove libflickr first, so mono could complete the installation and tried to reinstall libflickr but still the same error
[12:48] <stgraber> seb128: segfault with a clean user :)
[12:48] <soren> pochu: The others I could remember didn't crash anymore.
[12:49] <snadge> any status on bug #1 yet?
[12:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[12:49] <ion_> snadge: Microsoft® has already began its downfall on the OS side. :-)
[12:52] <cjwatson> snadge: I think when it's closed *everyone* will know. :)
[12:53] <stgraber> seb128: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/3575/
[12:53] <stgraber> seb128: ^ error message and backtrace
[12:53] <ogra> Mithrandir, i really wonder how you managed that, the file it wants to inwstall is actually nonexistent
[12:53] <seb128> stgraber: looks like it's not known upstream
[12:53] <seb128> stgraber: could you send a bug using apport?
[12:54] <Mithrandir> ogra: try dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/libflickrnet2.1.5-cil_25277-6_all.deb ?
[12:54] <ogra> ah, i tried apt ... one sec
[12:55] <pochu> soren: great, thanks!
[12:55] <geser> Mithrandir: doesn't help
[12:55] <ogra> Setting up libflickrnet2.1.5-cil (25277-6) ...
[12:55] <ogra> * Installing 1 assembly from libflickrnet2.1.5-cil into Mono
[12:55] <ogra> ! Assembly /usr/share/cli-common/policies.d/libflickrnet2.1.5-cil/policy.2.1.FlickrNet.dll does not exist
[12:55] <ogra> nope
[12:56] <snadge> i really hope that hardy heron is going to be less buggy than all the prior releases put together ;) maybe i'm just unlucky, but i've had everything from no video, to no networking and unable to detect filesystems
[12:57] <Mithrandir> > dpkg -L libflickrnet2.1.5-cil| grep dll$
[12:57] <Mithrandir> /usr/share/cli-common/policies.d/libflickrnet2.1.5-cil/policy.2.1.FlickrNet.dll
[12:57] <persia> snadge: I'd encourage you to join the team on #ubuntu-bugs and try to make sure as many as possible are well described, and a solution is possible.  It's the best way to make sure hardy works for you.
[12:58] <geser> Mithrandir: I have the dll only in /usr/lib/cli
[12:58] <ogra> ogra@ceron:~/devel/packages$ dpkg -c /var/cache/apt/archives/libflickrnet2.1.5-cil_25277-6_all.deb |grep dll
[12:58] <ogra> -rw-r--r-- root/root    136704 2008-01-13 07:53 ./usr/lib/cli/flickrnet-2.1.5/FlickrNet.dll
[12:58] <ogra> hmm
[12:59] <Mithrandir> hm, I did a rebuild of it, maybe it was that?
[12:59] <geser> Mithrandir: which md5sum does your deb have? I have here: 9f275e327795820e4942cc52e1a2f1eb
[12:59] <ogra> Mithrandir, aha :)
[13:00] <Mithrandir> geser: since mine's a rebuild, it'll have a different md5sum
[13:00] <geser> :)
[13:00]  * ogra tries if a pbuilder rebuild changes anything
[13:05] <ogra> ogra@ceron:~/devel/packages/libflickrnet-25277$ dpkg -c /var/cache/pbuilder/result/libflickrnet2.1.5-cil_25277-6_all.deb|grep dll
[13:05] <ogra> -rw-r--r-- root/root    136704 2008-01-15 14:04 ./usr/lib/cli/flickrnet-2.1.5/FlickrNet.dll
[13:05] <ogra> hmm
[13:05] <ogra> Mithrandir, did you change anything in debian/rules ?
[13:06] <Mithrandir> no
[13:06] <ogra> dh_install FlickrNet/FlickrNet.dll /usr/lib/cli/flickrnet-$(VERSION)/
[13:06] <ogra> seems to only install it there
[13:06] <ogra> weird
[13:16] <Drakou> hi there , I'm looking for help with pango but i can't find a #pango channel
[13:16] <Drakou> I have a cross compilation problem and i don't know how to solve it. The problem is with libtool when making the library
[13:16] <Drakou> Anybody there knows libtool well ? My error is here : http://pastebin.com/d942cf88
[13:18] <pochu> soren: I've forwarded it upstream, as I can 100% reproduce it. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=509634
[13:18] <ubotu> Gnome bug 509634 in general "Crash if hostname contains invalid characters" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
[13:21] <soren> pochu: In 0.3 I can't even store bookmarks. It was surprisingly fragile. 0.4 looks much better.
[13:22] <soren> pochu: gtk-vnc is really the sanest VNC implementation I've seen, so having a stand-alone client that uses it is really, really good.
[13:25] <soren> pochu: re bug 183169: If it's a gtk-vnc problem, I'll be happy to update it to a recent hg version.
[13:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 183169 in vinagre "Crash if hostname contains invalid characters" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183169
[13:26] <pochu> soren: I'm building vinagre trunk, which is what jwendell asked for, and try to reproduce.
[13:26] <soren> pochu: Cool.
[13:27] <soren> pochu: I'll need a fresh gtk-vnc before hardy releases anyway (there's a new version due out soon), so tracking hg is not a problem at all.
[13:31] <pochu> soren: I'll let you know if I can still reproduce with vinagre trunk :)
[13:34] <ogra> ogra@ceron:~/devel/packages$ for i in 4 5 6 ;do dpkg -c ./libflickrnet2.1.5-cil_25277-${i}_all.deb|grep cli-common|grep dll;done
[13:34] <ogra> -rw-r--r-- root/root      3584 2008-01-04 07:31 ./usr/share/cli-common/policies.d/libflickrnet2.1.5-cil/policy.2.1.FlickrNet.dll
[13:34] <ogra> -rw-r--r-- root/root      3584 2008-01-11 06:50 ./usr/share/cli-common/policies.d/libflickrnet2.1.5-cil/policy.2.1.FlickrNet.dll
[13:35] <ogra> hmm
[13:35] <ogra> debian has it in version 5 and 6
[13:35] <ogra> i wonder why its not in our package at all
[13:35] <pochu> soren: do I need gtk-vnc trunk? /tmp/buildd/vinagre-0.4+svn132/src/vinagre-tab.c:258: undefined reference to `vnc_display_set_lossy_encoding'
[13:35] <StevenK> ogra: egrep 'cli-common.*dll$' ? :-)
[13:35] <ogra> StevenK, hey thanks
[13:36] <ogra> sadly that doesnt add the missing file :)
[13:36]  * StevenK chuckles
[13:36] <StevenK> Stand back, I know regular expressions!
[13:39] <pochu> soren: nevermind, found it.
[13:41] <ogra> err Mithrandir you reversed the options mksquashfs uses ?
[13:41] <Mithrandir> ogra: No?
[13:41] <ogra>  * Add -lzma switch to enable lzma support.
[13:42] <Mithrandir> yes?
[13:42] <ogra> there is a -nolzma switch already we use in liveCD and LTSP builds atm
[13:42] <ogra> did you reverse that behavior
[13:42] <ogra> ?
[13:42] <ogra> (do i need to change my scripts now )
[13:43] <Mithrandir> yes, I know about that.  Does my changelog entry say anything about that -nolzma is removed?
[13:43] <ogra> no
[13:43] <ogra> thats why i ask :) since it doesnt say either that its not touched :)
[13:44] <Mithrandir> are you going to ask whether I removed the -version switch too? :-P
[13:45] <ogra> :P
[13:45] <Mithrandir> (no, I didn't touch -nolzma, since that'd break scripts)
[13:45] <ogra> i just wanted to know if i have to adjust my scripts ... could have been you dropped nolzma if you default to no lzma anyway
[13:45] <Mithrandir> I just changed the default and made it possible to go back to the previous default by adding -lzma as an option, since otherwise you couldn't say "please give me lzma".
[13:45] <ogra> ok
[13:45] <ogra> thnaks
[13:45] <Mithrandir> if I had dropped -nolzma, I would have announced it somewhere and mentioned it in the changelog.
[13:46] <ogra> ok
[13:53] <Kmos> could someone give back ogre-contrib in hardy ?
[13:55] <Mithrandir> Kmos: done
[13:55] <Kmos> Mithrandir: thanks
[13:56] <ogra> grmbl ... if i build flickrnet locally it works :/
[13:56] <ogra> if i use pbuilder the file is missing
[14:00] <soren> I need netcat to support connecting to UNIX sockets. I can a) patch our netcat to do so, or b) replace our netcat with the one from OpenBSD which already has it. The current netcat code is horribly hideous and unmaintained, but the OpenBSD one is not 100% command line compatible, but maintained and the code is much prettier.. I've already whipped up a patch to the OpenBSD one to make it cli compatible.. Any objections to switching? Is it worth disc
[14:00] <Mithrandir> soren: use socat?
[14:01] <Mithrandir> soren: also, you got cut off after "worth disc".
[14:01] <soren> Mithrandir: I'm *replacing* netcat.
[14:01] <soren> Ah..
[14:01] <soren> Er..
[14:01] <Mithrandir> butbutbut
[14:01]  * Mithrandir hugs netcat
[14:01] <sladen> socat?
[14:01] <soren> last bit was "Is it worth discussing on a mailing list?
[14:01] <soren> "
[14:02] <soren> Mithrandir: It's still netcat, only a rewrite of it from OpenBSD.
[14:02] <soren> Mithrandir: Fedora uses it, too, and have done so for years.
[14:03] <sladen> where, did the current copy of tail(1) come from, it too stopped supporting   tail -0f  and the like
[14:03] <sladen> did somebody replace that with the BSD version too?
[14:03] <soren> Part of the problem with socat is that its cli is not compatible at all with netcat, and one of the reasons I'd like to change it is because certain clients might connect to an Ubuntu server and expect certain things to happen, when it calls nc with certain arguments.
[14:04] <sladen> and then if that person uses $(modified version of netcat) and then switches back to their Debian/Fedora box?   ("OMG forking incompatible Unix all over again")
[14:04] <soren> Mithrandir: Chances are, that if I had not asked, but just uploaded the new version, you'd never have known the difference. Nevertheless, I felt I should mention it first.
[14:04]  * ogra decides to hate mono for now and takes a coffee break
[14:05] <sladen> soren: reckon you can get the Debian maintainer to switch?
[14:05] <soren> sladen: They've discussed this already.. Hang on.
[14:05] <sladen> soren: if so, focus the energy there and we get the results for free
[14:05] <soren> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=145798
[14:05] <ubotu> Debian bug 145798 in netcat "netcat: openbsd's rewrite of netcat might help some ppl... or not" [Wishlist,Open]
[14:07] <cjwatson> sladen: tail -0f works for me
[14:07] <cjwatson> sladen: it's an obsolescent use though, as are most -NUM options in coreutils; use tail -n0 -f
[14:08] <sladen> cjwatson: I know, I know, but the fingers still prefer typing the shorter version
[14:08] <soren> Of course, I could just name it netcat-openbsd, but there's a good chance I'll want this in main, so instead of having two 99% compatible implementations in main, I'd rather replace it.
[14:08] <sladen> ha. tail: warning: following standard input indefinitely is ineffective
[14:09] <soren> :)
[14:10] <cjwatson> sladen: I've retrained my fingers at least in the case of head
[14:10] <sladen> okay.  I'll rephrase.   tail -0  /was/ broken, /somewhere/, at least enough to get me out of the habit of trying to type it
[14:30] <alleeHol> \sh:  oh, damn.  can't find my fai bazaar branch.  But AFAIR everything is pushed to fai teams bazaar.  Status was FAIBASE pxe install and softupdate were working in gutsy at the time of my last bzr push
[14:31] <\sh> alleeHol, I wanted to work on the latest fai for hardy...
[14:31] <\sh> alleeHol, so I wasn't sure if you pushed the new fai into bzr
[14:33] <alleeHol> \sh:  that's great news.  You'll have pxe boot/softupdate tester next week ;)
[14:33] <\sh> alleeHol, ok...so I can work on this beast
[14:34] <alleeHol> \sh: last rebase of fai ubuntu branch is the release in the ppa
[14:34] <\sh> alleeHol, ok...
[14:39] <_MMA_> seb128_: Did you want me to file that system sounds bug against Ubuntu or something else? I confirmed I got no sound there as well. Or, should I just did up the old one?
[14:40] <seb128> _MMA_: gnome-control-center
[14:41] <_MMA_> ok
[14:42]  * _MMA_ didnt know sounds were part of the but ok. :)
[14:53] <_MMA_> seb128: Done. bug 183199
[14:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 183199 in gnome-control-center "System sounds aren't being played in Hardy." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183199
[14:53] <seb128> _MMA_: thanks
[14:54] <_MMA_> np. Let me know if there's anything else you need me to do. Well, I guess thats what LP and filing the bug is for. :)
[14:56] <lucky_lucas> Hi, regarding to this http://www.krizka.net/2007/12/27/thinkpad-x61-tablet-and-ubuntu-hardy-heron/ hdaps driver seems to be broken in hardy and gutsy, is there any plan to add the latest driver form sourceforge ?
[14:56] <lucky_lucas> It concerns almost every thinkpad I guess
[14:58] <lucky_lucas> Moreover enabling hdaps requires a kernel rebuild, is it planned to patch the kernel to support it ?
[15:10] <davmor2> hello. I know this isn't the best channel for advice.  But How can I find out if the 64bit hw detection system is working correctly?  re bug 173130
[15:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173130 in xserver-xorg-video-nv "edubuntu hardy 64bit live cd issues" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173130
[15:35] <pochu> soren: could you point me to gtk-vnc VCS? Or do you want to build it yourself? (I have a source package of vinagre-trunk, but I think it needs gtk-vnc trunk due to a new api used in vinagre)
[15:38] <soren> pochu: AFAIR, there's no API changes. I could be wrong, though.
[15:39] <soren> pochu: http://gtk-vnc.sourceforge.net/Code
[15:39] <pochu> soren: this is the problem: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/vinagre/trunk/src/vinagre-tab.c?r1=129&r2=128&pathrev=129
[15:40] <soren> pochu: Ah, yes, tight encoding was added since gtk-vnc 0.3.2.
[15:40] <soren> pochu: ...which is lossy.
[15:40] <soren> ..so that was likely added since 0.3.2.
[15:41] <pochu> Well I have 0.3.2 and don't have that symbol:
[15:41] <pochu> emilio@pochu:~/tmp/tmp/vinagre/trunk$ nm -D /usr/lib/libgtk-vnc-1.0.so.0.0.1 | grep vnc_display_set_lossy_encoding
[15:41] <soren> What I meant was that there's no SONAME bump needed.
[15:41] <pochu> emilio@pochu:~/tmp/tmp/vinagre/trunk$
[15:42] <pochu> Right.
[15:42] <soren> pochu: I won't have time to update it today. I'll put it on my list for tomorrow.
[15:43] <pochu> I'll try to do it then.
[15:43] <soren> Cool.
[15:48] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[15:48] <pochu> Hey hey DarkSun88
[15:49] <DarkSun88> Hi pochu :)
[16:00] <Hobbsee> erm, what's a virtual package that other things depend on?
[16:00] <Hobbsee> like, an example of one?
[16:00] <Hobbsee> (which is not libapt)
[16:01] <Hobbsee> mvo: oops, you broke it.
[16:04] <Hobbsee> mvo: it appears that doing apt-cache rdepends <virtual package provided by something else> doesn't give any output now.  Any reason why?
[16:04] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/virtual-package-names-list.txt.gz
[16:05] <cjwatson> www-browser for example
[16:05]  * Hobbsee pokes her mirror
[16:05] <bigon> hi, could someone rebuild libflickrnet against new mono 1.2.6+dfsg-5ubuntu2 ?
[16:06] <ogra> bigon, i tried that, doesnt work in pbuilder
[16:06] <bigon> uh?
[16:06] <ogra> it builds fine if i use a manual debian/rules bianry
[16:07] <ogra> but the dll is not in the pbuilt package
[16:07] <bigon> with the newly uploaded version of mono?
[16:08] <ogra> i think so
[16:08] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: ah, thanks.  that answers the first question, but not the second.
[16:08] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: out of interest, how's the easiest way to open that file?
[16:08] <ogra> let me check my pbuilder again, but i actually created a new one this morning, so it should be in tehre
[16:08]  * Hobbsee is certain she did *not* do it in the easiest way
[16:08] <cjwatson> [ -n "$LESSOPEN" ] || eval `lesspipe` # in a shell initialisation file
[16:08] <cjwatson> or zless
[16:08] <Hobbsee> ah, zless!
[16:08] <Hobbsee> thanks.
[16:09] <cjwatson> the above rune makes less decompress it automagically
[16:10]  * Hobbsee wonders about the syntax for sticking that into .zshrc
[16:13] <ogra> bigon, gah ....
[16:13] <ogra> my pbuilder had ubuntu1
[16:13] <ogra> builds fine
[16:14] <bigon> works for me :)
[16:14] <mvo> Hobbsee: apt-cache show <virtual-pkg> does not display anything too. I'm unhappy about it, but there seems to be some strong sentiment in debian that the apt-cache interface should remain as it is
[16:15] <Hobbsee> mvo: why, though?
[16:15] <Hobbsee> mvo: it comes up via apt-cache search
[16:15] <Hobbsee> mvo: is there any way to find out what packages depend on a virtual package now?
[16:17] <ogra> bigon, build1 uploaded
[16:17] <mvo> Hobbsee: synaptic has this ;)
[16:17] <bigon> ogra: \o/
[16:18] <Hobbsee> mvo: anything in synaptic should be possible to do via the command line.
[16:18] <mvo> I agree
[16:25] <Hobbsee> mvo: i don't understand.  why did it work before, but not now?
[16:25] <Hobbsee> if the debian protocol was to keep it as it was
[16:26] <mvo> Hobbsee: oh, sorry. I missed the bit that it worked before.
[16:26] <mvo> Hobbsee: do you have a rough idea what version it used to work and which it broke?
[16:27] <Hobbsee> mvo: was working in earlier hardy.
[16:27]  * Hobbsee checks gutsy
[16:28] <Hobbsee> hrm, broken on gutsy
[16:28]  * Hobbsee swears that that worked before.
[16:28] <Kmos> Hobbsee: have you tried showsrc virtual_package ?
[16:29] <Hobbsee> Kmos: no, why?
[16:29] <Kmos> Hobbsee: i think it will show you the virtual package :)
[16:29] <Hobbsee> Kmos: it doesn't.
[16:29] <Kmos> :-(
[16:29] <Kmos> it worked for some java packages based on jbossas4
[16:30] <Hobbsee> which apparently doesn't exist at all.
[16:31] <Hobbsee> oh, here it is.
[16:31] <Hobbsee> Kmos: whatever makes you think that jbossass4 is a virtual package?
[16:31] <Kmos> Hobbsee: i didn't say that
[16:31] <Hobbsee> Kmos: did you actually read the backscroll?
[16:32] <Kmos> Hobbsee: yes
[16:32] <Hobbsee> Kmos: your statement then had absolutely no relevance to hte previous discussion?
[16:32] <Kmos> Hobbsee: maybe
[16:32] <Kmos> forget it :)
[16:33] <Kmos> i need to go.. time to candidate a job :(
[16:33] <Kmos> Hobbsee: i'm sorry.. i think you're talking about the same thing I was thinking.
[16:33] <Kmos> bbl
[16:34] <Hobbsee> mvo: perhaps i'm wrong.  i swore i used to be able to do something with apt-cache search libapt, take the elongated form, and do an rdeps search on that.
[16:34] <Hobbsee> Kmos: ....right.  if that's hte case, then what you're thinking wasn't what you said.
[16:36] <Hobbsee> mvo: including on the old versions of it, so i could see what still needed a rebuild.
[16:36] <Hobbsee> mvo: which would have beena round the time i last uploaded apt
[16:36]  * Hobbsee heads to bed.
[16:51] <pochu> soren: reproduced with gtk-vnc trunk + vinagre trunk
[16:52] <soren> pochu: But jwendell doesn't see it? That's odd.
[16:52] <pochu> I've removed your patch to build trunk btw, as it didn't apply cleanly
[16:53] <pochu> I'll build it with --enable-debug and try to get a useful backtrace.
[17:30] <tkamppeter> Anyone here who can resync the the REVU uploaders keyring?
[17:33] <hunger> When will OOo finally get upgradeable again in hardy?
[17:33] <\sh> tkamppeter, some revu admins can on #ubuntu-motu...or ask on #ubuntuwire :)
[17:35] <\sh> elmo, do I need to send an email to rt@ubuntu.com to re-enable shermann@ubuntu.com?
[17:35] <hunger> OOo-l10n-* seem to be outdated for weeks now:-(
[17:45] <\sh> hmm..archive admins who synced libgcr410 ?
[17:47] <\sh> Riddell, ping
[17:48] <tkamppeter> Thanks, \sh, on that channnel no one is answering.
[17:49] <\sh> tkamppeter, well, siretart or imbrandon could do the revu keyring sync imho..think both are busy or wrong timezone :(
[17:53] <phaidros> hi, is there already beta iso's around for testing ?
[17:54] <jdong> phaidros: what kind are you looking for?
[17:55] <_MMA_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy
[17:55] <jdong> ^^ latest "released" alphas
[17:55] <jdong> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/
[17:55] <jdong> ^^ daily-built CD images. not guaranteed to work
[17:56] <jdong> the released alphas are at least checked to work and install
[17:56] <phaidros> jdong: cd, amd64 desktop/server/studio .. whatever is there :)
[17:56] <phaidros> thanx guys
[17:57] <jdong> phaidros: just explore the cdimage server. Lots of cool things in there :)
[17:59] <phaidros> I see :)
[17:59] <phaidros> btw, is there an easy way to boot images via usb stick nowadays?
[18:00]  * phaidros doenst want to burn for each test .. and it is environmentally very unfriendly :)
[18:00] <_MMA_> There are HOW-TOs out there. Ive never done it myself.
[18:00] <phaidros> hm
[18:02] <jdong> phaidros: with some initrd mods you can boot them off the hard drive.
[18:02] <jdong> I don't have the time currently to detail them
[18:03] <jdong> not to mention the installer gods in here would probably come hunt me down with flaming pitchforks if I admitted to it :D
[18:03] <jdong> but in all reality, it's nice to have a DVD+RW drive to test these. Takes 5 minutes to burn, you can reuse a disc 1000 or so times before you begin to have trouble.
[18:03] <phaidros> yeah .. you are right.
[18:04] <phaidros> but usb seemed even nicer
[18:04] <jdong> it's actually not always faster to write compared to DVD+RW
[18:04] <phaidros> and: my dvd rw burner is only 4x ;)
[18:04] <jdong> mine is 2.4x :)
[18:04] <cjwatson> well, the reason you don't want to boot the installer off the hard drive (without very specialised circumstances) is that partitioning is then impossible
[18:04] <phaidros> uh? only 5 mins?
[18:04] <jdong> phaidros: 700MB?
[18:04] <phaidros> hm, true
[18:04] <phaidros> cjwatson: but on usbstick ..
[18:05] <cjwatson> sure; the alternate installer supports it and it's documented in the installation guide
[18:05] <cjwatson> it's possible with the live CD and I think there's stuff on the wiki
[18:05] <phaidros> would be neat to let iso boot automatically as well on sticks
[18:05] <phaidros> I'll go and look :) thx
[18:05] <cjwatson> we discussed this at UDS-Boston and came up with a plan
[18:05] <cjwatson> (don't recall where it is)
[18:06] <phaidros> hm, plan is good! solutions as well ?? ;)
[18:06] <jdong> lpscrape -x supertux-stable
[18:06] <jdong> oops
[18:06] <cjwatson> it's not rocket science to do the small modifications needed at the moment
[18:06] <cjwatson> like I say, I think it's on the wiki somewhere
[18:07] <phaidros> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick .. nice ..
[18:08] <phaidros> more easy: just a script :)
[18:09] <cjwatson> looks like the one
[18:10] <tkamppeter> siretart, ping
[18:12] <tkamppeter> imbrandon, ping
[18:16] <mdz> sabdfl,mjg59,Keybuk: TB tonight?
[18:17] <Keybuk> mdz: I'm able to attend
[18:18] <mr_pouit> cjwatson: has something been decided for xubuntu (universe or not?), or not yet?
[18:18] <cjwatson> mr_pouit: I don't think so
[18:18] <cjwatson> I'm not up to date
[18:20] <mr_pouit> cjwatson: well, when I mailed the tb to have the "final" answer, mdz told you were the one to ask :p
[18:21] <phaidros> nice, isttousb script works and it boots!
[18:21] <phaidros> isotousb
[18:23] <mdz> mr_pouit: as I wrote to you, as far as I'm aware, this is in the discussion stage, not the "final answer" stage.  I'd like to see a consensus among the Xubuntu developers and the archive administrators about the best course of action
[18:24] <cjwatson> ^-- see, this is what I'm not up to date about. :-) I don't read mails sent to the TB list
[18:24] <mdz> mr_pouit: is there such a consensus already?
[18:24] <mdz> cjwatson: I replied to the message sent to TB and CCed you (Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:02:59)
[18:25] <cjwatson> so you did. there was then no followup (at least none that was CCed to me)
[18:26] <cjwatson> mr_pouit: at any rate I don't think you should let this block you from proceeding as before (adding entries to seeds, preparing MIRs, etc.) until consensus/decision is reached
[18:27] <mdz> mr_pouit: as one of the Xubuntu developers, what do you think is the best way forward?
[18:28] <gpocentek> IIRC the main argument was the fact that xfce/xubuntu is not supported by canonical (might be wrong)
[18:29] <gpocentek> so is there something that xubuntu dev could do?
[18:29] <gpocentek> no one works for canonical in the team
[18:30] <_MMA_> The definition of "officially supported" was also under question.
[18:33] <_MMA_> I'd like to say as lead on Ubuntu Studio, and someone who has all their packages in Universe, its been no issue. The situation seems to come down to perception for Cody. (somerville32) Moving to Universe looks to be seen as a negative.
[18:34] <mjg59> mdz: Yup
[18:35] <mdz> gpocentek: xubuntu is built from main because at the time, we had no facility to build derivatives from universe.  that has since changed, and Ubuntu Studio is (apparently happily) using it
[18:35] <_MMA_> Correct.
[18:35] <gpocentek> mdz: yes
[18:35] <gpocentek> note that I have not a clear opinion about that
[18:35] <mdz> gpocentek: it makes sense to me for Xubuntu to do the same, as it would avoid confusion for Canonical support and make it easier for new contributors to get involved, but I want to hear from the stakeholders
[18:36] <gpocentek> mdz: we'd like to know as well, to know in which direction we'll go
[18:37] <cjwatson> you (plural) are the stakeholders
[18:37] <_MMA_> mdz: I can pastebin a chat from November about this if you like.
[18:38] <mdz> gpocentek: if it doesn't matter to you, we can make a decision on our own, but I'd rather hear your opinion
[18:38] <mdz> _MMA_: sure, could you email it to technical-board?
[18:38] <gpocentek> mdz: mr_pouit is the leader, so I'd like to ear from him
[18:38] <_MMA_> Its quite long so Ill link to the pastebin. Do you have the email handy?
[18:38]  * _MMA_ isnt subscribed.
[18:39] <mdz> _MMA_: technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com
[18:39] <mdz> that's the contact address for the entire TB (including the members who aren't watching this channel right now but may have an opinion)
[18:41] <_MMA_> mdz: Thanx. Im writing it up now.
[18:41] <mr_pouit> I don't have a strong opinion against that. If there are these facilities to build from universe, why not?
[18:43] <mdz> ok then, we'll discuss during the TB meeting (in 80 minutes) and vote on it
[18:43] <mr_pouit> cjwatson: I still updated the seeds, but I was holding my breath for MIRs yes ;)
[18:44] <_MMA_> For now: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/52033
[18:47] <_MMA_> mdz: sent.
[19:43] <somerville32> I'm not the only one who is worried about the migration of Xubuntu to universe. mr_pouit has also expressed concern.
[19:43]  * somerville32 goes to actually read backlog now.
[19:59] <somerville32> My main concern is the same one shared by mr_puit in his original response to the proposal regarding QA. Just yesterday, when a MOTU asked how he might test a package another MOTU jokingly replied "It is Universe. We don't do testing." Although this was said jokingly, this is often the case. Furthermore, there has been a fair amount of work done to distinguish main as the archive with the "premium" packages and that universe is s
[19:59] <somerville32> econd-rate and to expect that. I fear that some would see this migration as a reflection on the quality and status of the Xubuntu distribution. TBH, I think the entire model needs to be rethought.
[20:01] <_MMA_> somerville32: Bring this up in the meeting so we dont duplicate the chat.
[20:03] <mjg59> keescook: Around?
[20:03] <keescook> mjg59: hiya
[20:05] <mjg59> keescook: Did you see my note about the libdisasm license?
[20:06] <keescook> mjg59: uh-oh, where did it go?
[20:07] <mjg59> keescook: On IRC, a couple of days back
[20:07] <mjg59> Might have vanished out of your scrollback
[20:07] <keescook> mjg59: ah, then no, sorry.  what's the issue?
[20:07] <mjg59> keescook: It's original Artistic - it's incompatible with everything
[20:08] <keescook> what?  I diff'd it against common-licenses ...
[20:09] <keescook> $ diff -u LICENSE /usr/share/common-licenses/Artistic && echo $?
[20:09] <keescook> 0
[20:10] <mjg59> keescook: Yeah. That's original rather than clarified, as far as I can tell
[20:10] <keescook> blargh.  where is the "clarified"?
[20:10] <mjg59> keescook: http://www.statistica.unimib.it/utenti/dellavedova/software/artistic2.html
[20:11] <mjg59> keescook: The easiest way to tell is the number of options in sections 3 and 4 - clarified has 5, original 4
[20:11] <keescook> is there a reason Artistic2 isn't in common-licenses?
[20:12] <mjg59> keescook: Yeah, it's not all that common
[20:12] <mjg59> Or, at least, wasn't in the past
[20:14] <keescook> mjg59: okay.  So, in what way is this going to cause problems for you?  (Since it's a dynamic library, you can link to it without problem, right?)
[20:14] <slangasek> there still needs to be a clarified butter license
[20:14] <keescook> slangasek: mmm butter
[20:14] <mjg59> keescook: The FSF say "no"
[20:14] <elmo> so does Debian and Ubuntu
[20:14] <elmo> :-P
[20:14] <keescook> then why is Artistic even _in_ Debian?
[20:15] <mjg59> It's not clear
[20:15] <slangasek> because that's what Perl was released under
[20:15] <slangasek> at one point
[20:15] <mjg59> Yeah, but now it's dual Artistic/GPL
[20:15] <Keybuk> . o O { I wish there were a licence like the GPL, but that allowed dynamic linking }
[20:16] <slangasek> right, so this means we're giving end users and redistributors their choice of GPL or Artistic
[20:16] <keescook> so... what license _should_ libdisasm be under, in a perfect world?
[20:16] <slangasek> (clarified butter!)
[20:16] <mjg59> keescook: Clarified Artisitc is similar in spirit, but GPL compatible
[20:17] <mjg59> Artistic is awkward because it's not actually clear WTF it means (hence the clarified version)
[20:17] <keescook> Keybuk: does LGPL not do that?
[20:17] <slangasek> if your definition of "ideal" is "maximizing compatibility", then 3-clause BSD or LGPL are good
[20:18] <keescook> okay, so, just for my sanity, clarified Artistic would mean that it's dl compat?
[20:18] <Keybuk> keescook: anyone can take LGPL code, and relicence it under the GPL ... meaning any patches made after can't be integrated back into the LGPL version
[20:19] <keescook> ew
[20:19] <keescook> mjg59: clarified Artistic would be sufficient for you? (and everyone else that would need to link against it?)
[20:20] <mjg59> keescook: Yeah, believe so
[20:23] <subterrific> i'm trying to follow the instructions from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess/ppaput but the bug doesn't seem to be getting updated after i run ppaput my-ppa -sa. so i'm not sure how i get the bug on the sponsorship list?
[20:24] <subterrific> oops, wrong channel
[20:28] <Keybuk> keescook: of course, I could take the (simple) LGPL 3, remove the clause that I don't like, and then call it the KGPL :-)
[20:29] <keescook> \o/ license proliferation
[20:30] <Keybuk> keescook: ah, no :-)
[20:30] <Keybuk> the LGPL 3 is clever
[20:30] <Keybuk> it's simply a set of "additional permissions" to apply to the GPL 3, which GPL 3 allows
[20:31] <keescook> ah-ha, sneaky, them
[20:33] <Keybuk> though at that point, I'm not quite sure how you figure the patches coming back if someone claims they removed the additional permissions
[20:36] <siretart> tkamppeter: yeah?
[20:43] <bryce> how does one force a package to reinstall itself and its files (exact same version), without having to uninstall it and reinstall?
[20:43] <slangasek> apt-get --reinstall install $package=$version
[20:44] <slangasek> this won't restore altered conffiles though, you need some dpkg flags to get that
[20:45] <bryce> that should be fine, thanks
[20:58] <ToyKeeper> ... that was particularly handy back when apt corrupted files during install.   "apt-get clean ; apt-get --reinstall install foo"
[20:58] <ToyKeeper> I'm glad that bug is gone now.
[21:09] <slangasek> ToyKeeper: I'm pretty sure apt never corrupted files during install, since apt doesn't install the files :)
[21:11] <ToyKeeper> IIRC, it was messing up the downloads, but it was a while back.
[21:11] <ToyKeeper> Using dpkg on the cached copy would fail to install some files, but not give any errors.
[21:12] <slangasek> ah, well, that's possible; requires apt to corrupt the file and then fail to notice it doesn't match its own checksum
[21:12] <slangasek> then feed it on to dpkg for the full monty
[21:15] <tkamppeter> siretart, can you resynk the revu keyring, so that I can upload a package into revu? Thanks.
[21:21] <siretart> tkamppeter: sync is running, but will take some time (~half an hour)
[21:33] <tkamppeter> siretart, thank you
[21:35] <pitti> tkamppeter: do you have a bluetooth adapter and a gutsy installation somewhere?
[21:35] <pitti> tkamppeter: any chance you could do the verification of bug 147800?
[21:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 147800 in cupsys "[Gutsy] : bluetooth printing was working but is not (at the beginning of september)." [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147800
[21:36] <pitti> tkamppeter: I did the patch and upload testing, so someone else needs to verify it
[21:37] <ScottK> pitti: Is it needed to have a bluetooth printer available to test that?
[21:38] <pitti> ScottK: no; the test case describes how to create a fake printer
[21:38] <pitti> well, a real BT printer would be preferable, of course
[21:38] <pitti> but they are pretty rare
[21:38] <pitti> and at least the original bug was generic enough for the fake test case
[21:38] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have a Bletooth laptop and a printer with Bluetooth plug, but unfortunately no Gutsy. In Hardy it prints fine, after some small polishing on system-config-printer setup is as easy as with an ethernet printer, select auto-detected printer, take defualts for make, model, and driver and it works. Only Plug'n'Print as HAL does not autodetect Bluetooth devices.
[21:38] <ScottK> pitti: I've got Gutsy, bluetooth, but it's Kubuntu.  I can probably test it this evening if that would be helpful.
[21:39] <pitti> tkamppeter: hardy has the same cups apparmor rules, but AA doesn't work in hardy (new kernel doesn't ship AA module yet)
[21:39] <pitti> ScottK: u or kubuntu doesn't matter; would be great, thank you!
[21:40]  * ScottK marks it on TODO...
[21:40] <tkamppeter> pitti, would booting the Gutsy kernel on the Hardy box do the trick?
[21:40] <pitti> tkamppeter: that should work, yes
[21:40] <pitti> we already know from the other three pending bugs (which are verification-done) that the package is good in general
[21:40] <pitti> but let's stick to the procedure
[21:48] <pitti> bryce: did you see the last comment in bug 131646? there's a bug in the -proposed upload
[21:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131646 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "TVout is interfering with screen resolution on Intel graphics" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131646
[21:48] <nxvl_work> pitti: did you received my mail?
[21:49]  * antdedyet wonders what it would take get dump pulseaudio! :)
[21:49] <antdedyet> s/get//
[21:49] <sladen> antdedyet: provide something better
[21:49] <pitti> nxvl_work: I don't think so, subject?
[21:50] <sladen> antdedyet: and support $bbetter
[21:50] <nxvl_work> pitti: debian-bts-applet
[21:50] <nxvl_work> pitti: exactly subject was: "Gnome Applet for monitoring Debian bugs"
[21:50] <pitti> nxvl_work: no 'Nicolas' in my procmail log (thus it's not in spam either)
[21:50] <antdedyet> sladen: what is appealing about the idea of an audio server to anyone but someone who might be so involved with audio as to need jack support?
[21:51] <nxvl_work> pitti: mmm i send it to martin.pitt@ubuntu.com}
[21:51] <nxvl_work> without the } part
[21:51] <pitti> nxvl_work: ah, no real name; here it is in the log
[21:51] <nxvl_work> no real name?
[21:52] <antdedyet> sladen: and I'm sure you know what I might follow that up with if you are familiar with the current status of jack support in hardy :)
[21:52] <pitti> nxvl_work: nevermind, got it
[21:52] <nxvl_work> pitti: ok
[21:52] <TheMuso> c
[21:52] <TheMuso> ugh wrong tab
[21:52] <sladen> antdedyet: for backwards compatibility we'll need  /dev/dsp, alsa and esd interfaces;  if you work out how to make those work *and* JACK out of the box, then that would be a solution that would ultimately be shipable
[21:53] <nxvl_work> TheMuso: use terminator to stop making this kind of mistakes :P
[21:53] <sladen> antdedyet: I'm not familiar with the /current/ status;  I know a while ago there was an issue with enabling SCHED_FIFO out of the box
[21:53] <somerville32> interdiffs or .diff.gz for new upstream releases now?
[21:54] <bryce> pitti, thanks for pointing that out
[21:58] <_MMA_> sladen: The JACK/PA situation currently is that with JACK in Universe PA cant build the needed "pulseaudio-module-jack". Its been talked about moving JACK to Main but it was decided some more things need to mature 1st. crimsun could most likely better explain it.
[22:01] <antdedyet> reality of the situation: no one using hardy in it's current condition can use JACK -- and I haven't figured out how to permanently disable pulseaudio.
[22:01] <antdedyet> It's not a big deal since it's devel software, but I just want to make it known. :)
[22:02] <antdedyet> I'd hate to see Ubuntu lose appeal to musicians.
[22:02] <antdedyet> jack is more necessary then a flashy new sound server for us.
[22:03] <_MMA_> antdedyet: Like I said, its being looked and Ubuntu Studio will revert if need be. You also must remember that Ubuntu Studio just isnt for audio though I will agree that is our biggest user group.
[22:04] <_MMA_> antdedyet: Just keep reporting in #ubuntustudio to help make things better. I also expect you to test alpha4. ;)
[22:04] <antdedyet> _MMA_: I don't always use the studio distro, I don't want the desktop to use it!
[22:05] <antdedyet> :)
[22:05] <antdedyet> or at least the init script should work. :)
[22:06] <bryce> pitti, first, I don't understand why the sru request is being blocked
[22:06] <pitti> bryce: why blocked?
[22:07] <bryce> pitti, second, quirks are very specific to a given monitor, but the post by Mika is a useless "me too" - he didn't indicate his monitor model so afaik whatever issue he's having is an independent bug
[22:07] <pitti> bryce: I mean the comment by Andreas Schildbach
[22:07] <bryce> pitti, third, the workaround he suggests would likely result in breaking things for people who do have working tv out
[22:08] <bryce> pitti, but your comment that the issue was stalled precedes Andreas' comment
[22:09] <pitti> bryce: you mean my comment in 28? well, that's outdated, I sponsored it after all
[22:09] <pitti> I meant https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/131646/comments/34
[22:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131646 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "TVout is interfering with screen resolution on Intel graphics" [High,Fix released]
[22:09] <Nafallo> yea... they really are.
[22:09] <Nafallo> annoying!
[22:15] <bryce> pitti: I'm tied up with ume stuff at the moment, but may look at it later. Sounds like it's not a regression but just an incomplete fix.
[22:24] <keescook> Keybuk: is the code that generates the MoM trend graphs anywhere I can see it?
[22:25] <pitti> bryce: ok, thanks
[22:48]  * calc sees an article claiming 150lm/w led's for home use < $2/ea within 7 years
[23:06] <Keybuk> keescook: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/merge-o-matic/trunk/
[23:06] <Keybuk> specifically
[23:06] <Keybuk> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/merge-o-matic/trunk/annotate/scott%40netsplit.com-20080111101255-0i3o82pmgk2pqpd2?file_id=stats.py-20061027124550-8hlr4n4ot3109wnv-1
[23:06] <Keybuk> ^ adds lines to the stats.txt files
[23:06] <Keybuk> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/merge-o-matic/trunk/annotate/scott%40netsplit.com-20080111101255-0i3o82pmgk2pqpd2?file_id=statsgraphs.py-20061031161731-18opod7556nw7v81-1
[23:06] <Keybuk> ^ draws the graphs by collating info in the stats.txt file
[23:06] <Keybuk> http://merges.ubuntu.com/stats.txt
[23:06] <Keybuk> ^ the stats.txt file it uses
[23:10] <keescook> Keybuk: ah, so you manually sum the ranges.
[23:11] <keescook> (in the transform).  There isn't some magic "draw stacked values" graph option.  Okay, good, I'm not doing "too much work" then in my graphs.  ;)
[23:11] <keescook> thanks!
[23:20] <Keybuk> keescook: pychart is quite nasty
[23:20] <Keybuk> but it happens to work :-)
[23:29] <phaidros> so, installed alpha3 amd64 .. but as soon as I am in X, I have 5 seconds to do something, then all clicks and kbd actions are ignored ..
[23:30] <phaidros> I can move mouse but click nothing.
[23:30] <phaidros> a known one? any hints / workarounds known?
[23:30] <phaidros> kdb seems to work partially