[01:08] <kgoetz> XiXaQ: i'll look at the link when i can
[01:18] <CarlFK> installer is telling me "you need at least 3.2 gig" - (the desktop requirement)
[01:19] <CarlFK> but, isn't the limit set in initrd.gz, which is the same for both desktop and server ?
[01:21] <kgoetz> 3.2gig for an install?
[01:22] <CarlFK> right
[01:23] <CarlFK> I have a 450mb partition I want to install to.
[01:23] <kgoetz> bloated a bit since the 1.8gb days :\
[01:28] <nealmcb> CarlFK: is this a server install?  gutsy?
[01:29] <nealmcb> I think we've seen some installs at about 500 MB
[01:29] <nealmcb> nijaba did the tests IIRC
[01:30] <CarlFK> nealmcb: gutsy, server
[01:37] <CarlFK> nealmcb: but, I am doing a net install, and that uses the same initrd.gz as the alternate cd (that's what I was told)
[01:37] <CarlFK> i am guessing server has its own initrd
[03:15] <kgoetz> does anyone else consider update-alternatives refusing to run with only one option a bug?
[03:17] <kgoetz> ah thats got it
[03:20] <kgoetz> for the logs, i needed to `sudo update-alternatives --auto x-www-browser`
[03:20] <kgoetz> then i could `sudo update-alternatives --verbose --config x-www-browser`
[04:34] <nealmcb> CarlFK: what exactly are you seeing, at what point in the install?  when I've run into installer problems with space, it was very different (desktop install), and I don't know what would be in initrd.gz that had to do with this
[04:35] <nealmcb> XiXaQ: is there a bug or other official request to package calendar server?  seems like a good idea.
[04:37] <nealmcb> XiXaQ: do you know what userid the server runs as on macos?
[04:37] <XiXaQ> nealmcb, yes.
[04:37] <XiXaQ> no.
[04:37] <nealmcb> 42
[04:37] <nealmcb> :-)
[04:38] <XiXaQ> I'll call it caldavd in the wiki.
[04:38] <kgoetz> 6x9
[04:39] <nealmcb> XiXaQ: a link to the request to package would be a nice addition to the page.
[04:39] <XiXaQ> that it would. I'll see to it. Thanks.
[04:40] <nealmcb> I took out the reference about  "should run on desktop" because that seems true to me about everything, and saying it could lead to confusion about other server apps on ubuntu
[04:40] <kgoetz> can you give me the link again?
[04:40] <nealmcb> information about feisty, dapper etc would of course be handy
[04:41] <nealmcb>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CalendarServer
[04:41] <kgoetz> thanks
[04:41]  * kgoetz will be trying it out on dapper probably
[04:41] <nealmcb> excellent
[04:42] <nealmcb> I started following calendar stuff a bit at the ietf  back in the mid '90's and it has been a real slog....
[04:43] <kgoetz> so is the apple thing open source/free software?
[04:43] <nealmcb> I also wonder how how emailing appointments fits in to all this
[04:43] <nealmcb> apache 2 license
[04:43] <kgoetz> no probs
[04:43] <CarlFK> nealmcb: boot into the installer, it detects disks, givs me partition options, like "shrink", "use largest space", "use whole disk", II pick "Manual" and it displays a dialog "you need at least 3.2 gig" - which was kinda surprising, given I hadn't picked the 450mb partition yet
[04:43] <kgoetz> when i looked ~12 months ago at calendaring everything i could find was a monolithic blob or proprietary
[04:44] <XiXaQ> nealmcb, it isn't necessarily so. You need to install some packages for that software to run. If it isn't present, then the scripts will fail. I'm not 100% sure the desktop variants include it all.
[04:44] <nealmcb> CarlFK: you said the net installer? from which cd or location?
[04:44] <CarlFK> nealmcb: initrd.gz is the only file I can think of that would contain the setting for how much space is needed.
[04:45] <CarlFK>  http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/386/ubuntu-installer/i386/
[04:45] <nealmcb> XiXaQ: the packages are all available to both server and desktop, so it just requires being specific about all the necessary packages
[04:46] <XiXaQ> nealmcb, yes, and that would require additional work on the wiki, or at least testing.
[04:46] <XiXaQ> nealmcb, I have tested using server 7.10, but not with desktop.
[04:46] <XiXaQ> so I don't _know_ that it works, even though, as the wiki sais, is should.
[04:47] <kgoetz> XiXaQ: considering teh disclaimer at the top, i think it only sort-of-working is ok ;)
[04:48] <XiXaQ> the disclaimer is temporary.
[04:48] <kgoetz> "Installing Apple's iCal Server is fairly trivial once you know what to do" jee thanks :p
[04:48] <nealmcb> XiXaQ: got it - perhaps a jeos build would uncover everything that could be missing - or are there things in jeos that are not in desktop?
[04:48] <XiXaQ> kgoetz, try finding a good howto else where :)
[04:49] <XiXaQ> we had to follow quite a number of blogs and forum posts to get it running.
[04:49]  * nealmcb cheers for perseverance!
[04:49] <XiXaQ> nealmcb, I seriously doubt that. Owl is installing it on jeos I think.
[04:49] <kgoetz> XiXaQ: no, i'll fix anything i find wrong :p
[04:50] <XiXaQ> oh, and I meant owh :)
[04:52] <kgoetz> mmm. i'm wondering if i should 'correct' it to not recomend using sudo -s
[04:52]  * nealmcb nods
[04:53] <XiXaQ> hmm?
[04:53] <XiXaQ> why?
[04:53]  * kgoetz wishes <ubuntu swiki> broke the pages into sections like mediawiki
[04:54] <nealmcb> advantages of using sudo on each line are for clarity, for preserving shell history across both sudo and non-sudo lines, preserving history of what was done in /var/log/auth.log(?), avoiding dangerous other commands, etc
[04:54] <XiXaQ> sudo -s is ok when you have alot of commands to issue as part of the same job.
[04:55] <XiXaQ> that was a few good points.
[04:55] <kgoetz> sudo -s uses the non-root users environment, which can lead to Bad Things
[04:55] <XiXaQ> I'll fix that then.
[04:55]  * kgoetz tries to work out what user_xattr does
[04:56] <nealmcb> kgoetz: surprising - what env diffs are there for sudo -s and regular sudo?
[04:57] <kgoetz> nealmcb: not sure - you need -i to get a 'full' root shell
[04:57] <nealmcb> kgoetz: I think su -i would be even worse
[04:57] <nealmcb> but does get the full root environment
[04:57] <XiXaQ> sudo addgroup caldavd; sudo adduser --system caldavd --ingroup caldavd <-- Is that the right way to do it, or can I do it in one command?
[04:57] <nealmcb> but that shouldn't matter for these commands
[04:58] <kgoetz> adduser should make a gropu at the same time
[04:58] <XiXaQ> kgoetz, sudo adduser --system username?
[04:58] <kgoetz> i'm wondering if you think doing the svn checkout to ~, then svn export >/opt/calendar would be better? the only advantage to checkout in /opt/ is for posable updates
[04:58] <ma11oc> hi, i'm having trouble getting vnc set up on ubuntu server 6.06, could anyone shed some light?
[04:59] <kgoetz> XiXaQ: should work
[05:00] <XiXaQ> kgoetz, no, that'll cause it to be placed in nogroup.
[05:01] <kgoetz>        By default, system users are placed in the nogroup group.  To place the new system user in  an  already  existing
[05:01] <kgoetz>        group, use the --gid or --ingroup options.  To place the new system user in a new group with the same ID, use the
[05:01] <kgoetz>        --group option.
[05:01] <kgoetz> adduser man page, ~ line 67
[05:03] <XiXaQ> adduser --system username --group :)
[05:03] <XiXaQ> right :)
[05:03] <kgoetz> i cant help package (no skills there), but i can go over that wiki page and try and clean/tidy some stuff up if you want
[05:06] <XiXaQ> that's nice.
[05:07] <XiXaQ> I'm connected via ssh. I run sudo -u command & and then I log out. The command will still run in the background, right?
[05:07] <kgoetz> run it in screen
[05:07] <kgoetz> -u is user
[05:08] <kgoetz>        -b  The -b (background) option tells sudo to run the given command in the background.  Note that if you use the
[05:08] <kgoetz>            -b option you cannot use shell job control to manipulate the process.
[05:10] <XiXaQ> yes, I know that.
[05:10] <XiXaQ> I need to run the command in the background as another user.
[05:10]  * kgoetz waits to load wiki edit page
[05:11] <kgoetz> try -u user -b
[05:11] <kgoetz> or screen sudo -u fred -b command
[05:15] <XiXaQ> ok, what's the difference from using &?
[05:16] <kgoetz> & will probably background your sudo not the command itself
[05:17] <XiXaQ> ok.
[05:17] <kgoetz> XiXaQ: you done editing the ubuntu wiki? its got a lock open
[05:17] <XiXaQ> no.
[05:18] <kgoetz> not done? lock expires in 2 minutes. hit 'preview' again is my advice ;)
[05:18] <XiXaQ> there are other problems. It should be changed to have everything in /opt/CalendarServer too. Now it creates a few more subdirectories in /opt
[05:19] <kgoetz> what sort of subdirectories?
[05:21] <kgoetz> and why do we enable user_xattr? i cant seem to find anything useful about what it does online
[05:24] <XiXaQ> pydirector-1.0.0.0, vobject and Twisted
[05:25] <kgoetz> hm.
[05:25] <kgoetz> i'll have to build it tojjorrow
[05:25] <kgoetz> cant today, wont be hom e until late
[05:25] <kgoetz> s/jj/mm
[05:25] <XiXaQ> I've made some changes, so I'll install it and test that it actually works.
[05:26] <kgoetz> how big is the source checkout?
[05:27] <XiXaQ> 18-20MB
[05:28] <kgoetz> oh, very sane
[05:29] <kgoetz> perhaps meantion that size on teh wiki page btw
[05:34]  * kgoetz finds 'total amount of downloading for this projhect is 42343mb' quite helpful
[05:35] <XiXaQ> :
[05:35] <XiXaQ> :)
[05:36] <kgoetz> (esp on dialup/shaped adsl/satalite)
[05:38] <XiXaQ> noted.
[05:38] <kgoetz> XiXaQ: theres no lock on the wiki now - do i take it you stopped editing?
[05:39] <XiXaQ> for the time being. I'm installing Hardy server to test that it actually works.
[05:39] <XiXaQ> cause I know that if it works in hardy, then it works in 7.10 too.
[05:40]  * kgoetz checks updated version, and might make some edits
[05:42] <kgoetz> i'm wondering if the filesystem remount will work, because of existing attached processes
[05:43] <XiXaQ> hmm?
[05:43] <XiXaQ> I have tested that setup with 7.10 server.
[05:44] <kgoetz> mount -o remount /home/
[05:44] <kgoetz> s#/home/#/#
[05:44] <kgoetz> but are you sure the filesystem change applied?
[05:45] <nealmcb> XiXaQ: offhand I'd think the svn checkout would be  better as non-root in a different (user?) directory, but I'm only glancing at the emailed diffs :-)
[05:46] <XiXaQ> nealmcb, you're right about that, though I don't think it matters a great deal. Noted though. :)
[05:47] <nealmcb> but thanks for the sudo changes and user admin updates!
[05:49] <kgoetz> Most users will be familiar with apt-get, many with subversion <- probalby need to change this, btw
[05:54] <kgoetz> download some necessary packages <- and this (what necesary packages?)
[05:54] <kgoetz> why arnt they installed alreayd? :)
[05:54] <XiXaQ> hmm?
[05:55] <XiXaQ> the packages are listed there.
[05:55] <XiXaQ> they're not already installed because we didn't need them until now.
[06:00] <kgoetz> thats probably all i can do until i get a chance to build it myself and find out the details of the build/install process
[06:04] <nealmcb> kgoetz: nice - thanks
[06:06] <XiXaQ> yey. I'll just take a snapshot of the image, and then installation on hardy server can begin :)
[06:06] <kgoetz> nealmcb: np ;) getting docs 'more or less' right i'm good at, its making them submitable is my failing ;)
[06:31]  * kgoetz sets up chroot to try in
[06:32] <XiXaQ> did you have an edit window open while I was editing?
[06:32] <kgoetz> i started editing, when i asked and you said you stopped -- if you started editing again while i was then perhaps yes
[06:33] <kgoetz> are you editing right now? python-pyxattr instead of python-xattr (in the apt-get install bit)
[06:34] <kgoetz> and i cant find python-dateutil or *dateutil* at all in apt
[06:35] <XiXaQ> what version?
[06:35] <kgoetz> 7.10
[06:35] <XiXaQ> I've had no problems with either 7.10 or 8.04 so far.
[06:36] <kgoetz> hm. svn checkout doesnt need a sudo while its done in /home/
[06:36] <XiXaQ> server?
[06:36] <kgoetz> same repositories
[06:36] <kgoetz> gutsy[-security,-updates]
[06:36] <kgoetz> ah, universe is missing
[06:36] <XiXaQ> it's not done in  home. It's done in /opt, and that should be changed.
[06:36] <kgoetz> grrr. *mustnt have saved right*
[06:37] <kgoetz> i changed it
[06:37] <XiXaQ> please don't change the packages?=!
[06:38] <XiXaQ> we spent quite some time figuring out what was needed.
[06:38] <kgoetz> pardon?
[06:38] <XiXaQ> have you changed the packages for install on the wiki?
[06:38] <kgoetz> nope. just the formatting
 are you editing right now? python-pyxattr instead of python-xattr (in the apt-get install bit) <-- What does that mean?
[06:39] <kgoetz> i couldnt find  python-xattr (its in universe, which wasnt enabled for some reason)
[06:39] <XiXaQ> I have to test one thing. I can't test alot of different setups at the same time. I know the packages that were there before works.
[06:39] <kgoetz> but it appeared after enabling universe :)
[06:40] <XiXaQ> you didn't change the package installation? Someone has.
[06:40] <kgoetz> what about it?
[06:40] <kgoetz> the formatting?
[06:41] <XiXaQ> I don't know,.
[06:42] <XiXaQ> I'll have to read all the changes I've received in the mail to make sure all the packages are still the same, unless someone can confirm that they are.
[06:42] <XiXaQ> it's abit difficult to test an assumption when the assumption is changed while you're performing the test..
[06:48] <nealmcb> XiXaQ: you can just look at the wiki history online
[06:49]  * kgoetz logs out of caltry1 chroot and leaves it alone
[06:49] <XiXaQ> the reason there were two different apt-get commands to begin with, was that someone said that was necessary in a blog, but it should'nt be, so I was about to merge them into a single apt-get command, when there was suddenly three of them.
[06:50] <XiXaQ> nealmcb, no, I'll just test with the packages that are there now.
[06:59] <XiXaQ> the guide doesn't work anymore.. :(
[07:01] <XiXaQ> I'll fix it. Please don't make any edits.
[07:01] <kgoetz> theres probably not-quite-right stuff from my changes. (i spotted a few after i saved)
[07:12] <XiXaQ> heh, like being in the wrong directory and such? :)
[07:13] <kgoetz> i was going to checkout the svn in a user home, then sudo export it to /opt/wherever - i just didnt put that in right :( so yes, you probably wind up in wierd places
[07:27] <XiXaQ> that's a different installation procedure.
[07:41] <Kalamansi> hello is there any way to minize setting of pc2 and pc3? like i will not put my isp's dns? pc1 is my server and i have no router. pc2 and pc3 can connect to the internet with assigned ip,gateway,subnet and dns of my isp..how to minimize this without setting my isp's dns? i dont want to expose my dns to the public...
[07:47] <owh> hi XiXaQ
[07:47] <XiXaQ> owh, hey :)
[07:48] <owh> I've been looking at the latest wiki changes, but I have to say that they're making it more and more complicated.
[07:48] <owh> I mean, svn to your home directory, then move it to /opt. WTF?
[07:48] <owh> The notion of making each command a sudo makes no sense to me either.
[07:48] <XiXaQ> yes, and it doesn't work anymore.
[07:49] <owh> I am in favour of reverting it to NealMc mumble's revision.
[07:49] <XiXaQ> is there a way to revert to an older version?
[07:49] <XiXaQ> :)
[07:49] <owh> Yup, I'm in favour of going back to #36, click on "Info" at the top.
[07:50] <owh> You should also put a note near the bottom of the text entry field (there's a separate field for it) indicating the nature of the edit.
[07:50] <owh> You can also see difs.
[07:50] <owh> +f
[07:52] <owh> I think the edit from KarlG didn't help the issue. There was a reason we had them as two lists!
[07:52] <owh> Hey, kgoetz, you're in here, excellent.
[07:53] <owh> kgoetz: What were you trying to achieve with your edit of the CalendarServer wiki page, revision #41?
[07:54]  * XiXaQ reverts it to #36
[07:54] <XiXaQ> let's just hope it's the guide that's faulty and not the svn version that's become incompatible.
[07:54] <owh> XiXaQ: Actually, #37 is fine, that's before we started the silly sudo stuff :)
[07:55] <XiXaQ> it's done. :)
[07:55] <owh> Cool, so how did you figure out that it broke?
[07:56] <XiXaQ> I've installed it three times the last two hours.
[07:57] <owh> So what happened?
[07:57] <XiXaQ> missing files, unknown commands...
[07:57] <owh> Did you change any steps?
[07:57] <XiXaQ> I'm making a second attempt with #36 now, so we'll know in a little while if it's the svn version of the guide.
[07:58] <XiXaQ> yes, quite a few.
[07:58] <owh> XiXaQ: Uh, but it was working right?
[07:58] <owh> I'm just trying to understand why you would change steps if the procedure was working.
[07:59] <XiXaQ> some of them are really necessary, such as giving it its own user.
[07:59] <owh> XiXaQ: Yeah, but that's after the install succeeds right?
[07:59] <XiXaQ> the problem is that the guide was changed while I was testing if it was working or not, so I can't say for sure.
[07:59] <XiXaQ> well, that's part of the install. It's the last step.
[08:00] <owh> XiXaQ: So, the missing files happened when?
[08:00] <XiXaQ> no, you're right. run -s succeeds. It's when it's run that the problems occur.
[08:00] <XiXaQ> when running it.
[08:00] <XiXaQ> but as I said, I'm installing from scratch now, so we'll know shortly.
[08:01] <owh> So, this might just turn out to be a permissions issue, which wouldn't surprise me.
[08:01] <XiXaQ> though it's my turn to have problems with my connections. :)
[08:01] <XiXaQ> no, I made sure they were set correctly.
[08:02] <owh> XiXaQ: Hey, hate to bail, but I *have* to go.
[08:02] <owh> Email me if you need to.
[08:02] <XiXaQ> that's ok. :)
[08:02] <owh> later
[08:02] <XiXaQ> yup.
[08:02] <XiXaQ> see you later.
[09:30] <mok0> is there an easy way to remove all the not-needed graphics software from a server?
[09:43] <XiXaQ> huh?
[09:44] <XiXaQ> there is no graphics software in the server install.
[10:06] <mok0> c
[10:08] <mok0> is there an easy way to remove all graphics oriented software from a server?
[10:09] <XiXaQ> what?
[10:09] <XiXaQ> there is none.
[10:09] <XiXaQ> have you manually installed such software?
[10:11] <mok0> yes, its a workstation converted to a server
[10:12] <_ruben> yuck
[10:12] <_ruben> i'd suggest a clean install .. tho uninstalling the X server *should* take most of the graphical crap with it
[10:13] <mok0> _ruben: yeah I guess
[10:13] <XiXaQ> mok0, server uses a different kernel.
[10:13] <_ruben> and you could always audit the output of dpkg -l by hand
[10:13] <mok0> XiXaQ: didn't know that
[10:13] <_ruben> kernel is easy to replace
[10:14] <XiXaQ> is's PAE-enabled, and it's tickless.
[10:14] <mok0> XiXaQ: cool
[10:14] <mok0> XiXaQ: is that on the alternate CD?
[10:14] <_ruben> then again, clean install sure is the cleanest (duh) way to do so
[10:14] <XiXaQ> it's on the server cd or the dvd.
[10:14] <mok0> XiXaQ: ok, thx
[10:15] <mok0> _ruben: yeah but I've already spent a lot of time configuring t he box
[10:15] <mok0> XiXaQ: what's the package name of the server kernel?
[10:15] <_ruben> linux-server
[10:15] <mok0> duh
[10:16] <mok0> :)
[10:16] <_ruben> linux-generic is the default for desktop
[10:16] <XiXaQ> mok0, I don't know if you're aware of this, but the server install has quite a few helpful tasks.
[10:16] <_ruben> linux-386 for when you have an ancient/odd/whatever cpu
[10:17] <mok0> _ruben: It's a Pentium III
[10:17] <_ruben> -generic and -server should work fine on those afaik
[10:17] <_ruben> i use -386 on a via c3 cpu .. which lacks some instructions making the -server kernel unusable
[10:18] <mok0> _ruben: ah, I've never actually talked to someone who uses a via cpu
[10:19] <mok0> Pentium III is i686
[10:19] <mok0> XiXaQ: What tasks are you referring to?
[10:20] <_ruben> LAMP/Print server/etc
[10:20] <mok0> _ruben: very nice.
[10:20] <mok0> I just need it for kerberos and ldap
[10:21] <XiXaQ> mok0, mailserver, lamp, ldap, postgresql, etc.
[10:21] <XiXaQ> dns.
[10:21] <XiXaQ> hehe, actually, there is no ldap and kerberos tasks. At least not in 7.10
[10:22] <mok0> XiXaQ: hmmm. very convincing... but I should be able to manually select that set of packages, right?
[10:22] <XiXaQ> yes.
[10:23] <mok0> XiXaQ: I was just wondering whether there existed a meta package, like gnome-desktop and kubuntu-desktop, that converts Ubuntu to Kubuntu and vice versa.
[10:24] <mok0> XiXaQ: For example, a server-install package, that has dependencies and conflicts etc.
[10:24] <XiXaQ> I don't understand the question. Yes, there are packages for ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop, etc.
[10:24] <mok0> XiXaQ: A package that converts a workstation to a server
[10:25] <mok0> XiXaQ: By conflicting with X-windows etc
[10:25] <XiXaQ> no, that'd be very surprising, since almost all software would have to be replaced.
[10:25] <mok0> XiXaQ: heh, I understand
[10:25] <XiXaQ> it'd be faster to simply reinstall from a server cd.
[10:26] <mok0> XiXaQ: Hm, I am almost convinced...
[10:26] <XiXaQ> alot less work too.
[10:26] <_ruben> and some ppl do want X on their server (yuck!), so a server package that would prevent X would be bad (for some ppl)
[10:26] <XiXaQ> _ruben, why are you opposed to having X on a server?
[10:27] <_ruben> XiXaQ: X isnt a very secure thing, and all configs can be done via commandline .. and there's always remote X, which only requires a few X libs instead of a complete resource hogging X server
[10:28] <_ruben> resources and security being the main issues here
[10:28] <mok0> _ruben: I agree
[10:28] <_ruben> and servers also tend to run headless
[10:28] <_ruben> rendering X even more usless
[10:28] <_ruben> useless
[10:29] <mok0> _ruben: that's what I did to this box... took of monitor, mouse and keyboard and put it in the server room
[10:29] <mok0> s/of/off
[10:29] <XiXaQ> I run several small server setups with mailserver, lamp and nx. Xorg is installed, but isn't running. That's fine.
[10:30] <mok0> XiXaQ: yes it is
[10:30] <mok0> XiXaQ: But then you may as well uninstall it :-)
[10:30] <XiXaQ> why?
[10:30] <mok0> XiXaQ: disk space?
[10:30] <XiXaQ> the applications I use depend on it.
[10:30] <mok0> XiXaQ: ok
[10:31] <mok0> Ah, btw, what is the run level that doesnt start X?
[10:31] <_ruben> i think 3, for X it is 5 .. but i aint sure
[10:32] <mok0> _ruben: Ubuntu normally runs at 2
[10:32] <mok0> _ruben: what you say is true for RedHat systems
[10:33] <_ruben> arent runlevels deprecated since 'upstart' ? havent looked into that that much, i come from a suse environment, only started experimented with ubuntu recently
[10:35] <mok0> _ruben: I don't know
[10:37] <_ruben> mok0: never really looked into the runlevels/sysv init stuff
[10:37] <mok0> Quick Google search: "Run levels 2 through 5 are full multi-user mode and are the same in a default User Linux (Debian) system. It is a common practice in other Linux distributions to use run level 3 for a text console login and run level 5 for a graphical login."
[10:38] <_ruben> debian (stable) doesnt use upstart (yet) afaik
[10:39] <mok0> Never heard of upstart
[10:41] <_ruben> its ubuntu's replacement of init
[10:41] <mok0> _ruben: ah, the venerable init
[10:41] <_ruben> upstart sure looks like a nice project
[10:42] <mok0> http://upstart.ubuntu.com :-)
[10:42] <_ruben> more or less combines init and daemontools (by dj bernstein, qmail author)
[10:42] <mok0> looks pretty cool
[10:43] <_ruben> yeah
[10:43] <mok0> wouldn't hurt getting a faster boot...
[10:43] <_ruben> ubuntu-server boots pretty darn fast i'd say
[10:44] <jords> heh, I just run my server 24/7 so i don't mind :D
[10:44] <_ruben> JeOS is probably even fast (Just Enough OS, even more stripped down version of ubuntu-server, designed for virtualization and such)
[10:44] <_ruben> jords: during deployments (of the server), a fast boot cycle is a pro :)
[10:45] <mok0> _ruben: is jeos tickless as well?
[10:45] <_ruben> jords: and i doubt you upgrade your kernel without rebooting
[10:45] <soren> mok0: Well, you can use kubuntu-desktop to *convert* from an Ubuntu desktop to a Kubuntu one. You just *add* all the KDE stuff. You don't remove the GNOME stuff.
[10:45] <_ruben> mok0: wouldnt know, have only heard about it in this channel a bit, havent looked into it myself
[10:45] <soren> mok0: likewise, there's no meta-package for ubuntu-server, as it doesn't add anything that's not in the desktop install. It just doesn't include all the graphical stuff.
[10:46] <soren> mok0: Also, removing the x server will not do you much good.
[10:46] <_ruben> might look into jeos once i get some spare time investigating some virtualization opportunities
[10:46] <soren> mok0: No graphical applications I can think of depend on the presence of an X server.
[10:46] <mok0> soren: ok, I was looking for a package that would remove all non-server related stuff
[10:47] <_ruben> soren: hmm .. indeed, thought too simple on that one .. i even suggested the remote X possibility myself :p
[10:47] <soren> mok0: No such package exists, no.
[10:47] <soren> mok0: You can remove libx11, for instance.
[10:48] <soren> mok0: That will likely remove most of the stuff you don't want.
[10:48] <mok0> soren: I can try it, no harm done :-)
[10:48] <soren> mok0: Possibly followed by an apt-get autoclean.
[10:49] <mok0> aptitude is now working on it...
[10:50] <jords> _ruben: that's true. Hot-puggable kernels is a bit of a stretch
[10:50] <soren> Yes, the -virtual kernel image (used by Jeos) is also tickless.
[10:51] <_ruben> what exactly does this 'tickless' mean/impose?
[10:51] <mok0> ... from the list of files, it seems removing libx11-6 does pretty much what I want... aptitude still working...
[10:53] <soren> mok0: The problem is that it will only remove libraries and binaries. Not the variuos -common packages, for instance.
[10:53] <soren> _ruben: http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2007/022807-kernel.html
[10:54] <mok0> soren: it has around 30 packages left unresolved, mostly data packages that recommend other ones
[10:54] <soren> mok0: autoclean?
[10:55] <mok0> soren: hang on...
[10:55] <mok0> soren: It's going to free 1663Mb
[10:56] <mok0> what does {a} and {u} mean in the package names?
[10:58] <_ruben> soren: interesting read
[10:58] <mok0> soren: it needs to remove 625 packages, it will take probably 10 minutes
[11:01] <soren> mok0: re: "{a} and {u}"... I have no clue.
[11:01] <mok0> soren: it's an aptitude thing I think
[11:01] <acidfire2008> _ruben u around
[11:01] <_ruben> acidfire2008: more or less
[11:01] <soren> mok0: I think so, too. Otherwise, I probably would have known :)
[11:01] <acidfire2008> u remember us talking the other night about pure-ftpd?
[11:01] <mok0> ... " libxpm4{a} libxrandr2{a} libxrender1{a} .."
[11:02] <soren> mok0: Perhaps "automatically installed (as a dependency)" ?
[11:02] <_ruben> acidfire2008: i dont recall your nick, but do recall some pure-ftpd stuff
[11:02] <acidfire2008> well u showed me how to set port etc on it
[11:02] <mok0> soren: yeah that's probably it... "auto" and "user"
[11:02] <acidfire2008> i saved where to allow fxp
[11:02] <soren> mok0: Makes sense.
[11:02] <acidfire2008> but cnat remember how to change port haha
[11:02] <acidfire2008> remember we had to add a file in the conf directory
[11:03] <_ruben> acidfire2008: Bind was the filename iirc
[11:03] <acidfire2008> thats right or something like that
[11:03] <acidfire2008> how did u do that command with echo?
[11:03] <_ruben> echo ",PORTNUMBER" | tee /etc/pure-ftpd/conf/Bind ... the path might be slightly off, doing this from top of my head
[11:04] <_ruben> oops
[11:04] <_ruben> echo ",PORTNUMBER" | sudo tee /etc/pure-ftpd/conf/Bind ... the path might be slightly off, doing this from top of my head
[11:04]  * mok0 goes off to get a cup of coffee
[11:04]  * _ruben goes off for lunch
[11:04] <acidfire2008> ty
[11:08] <acidfire2008> all day i could not remember that
[11:08] <acidfire2008> and he comes online and bam its fixed in 2 mins
[11:18] <acidfire2008> _ruben when u get back plez let me know i got one more ? to ask u
[11:39] <_ruben> back
[11:40] <acidfire2008> k im looking into being able to change permission
[11:40] <acidfire2008> i cant write or delete etc to a folder
[11:40] <acidfire2008> but i can on my home folder
[11:41] <_ruben> probably not pure-ftpd related, just standard file permissions
[11:41] <acidfire2008> k
[11:41] <acidfire2008> then how can i set that?
[11:41] <acidfire2008> ./usr/local/torrent/acidphyre/
[11:42] <acidfire2008> like i would like to be able to edit that directory
[11:42] <acidfire2008> its a directory
[11:42] <acidfire2008> not file btw
[11:42] <acidfire2008> do i can upload to that directory
[11:42] <acidfire2008> so*
[11:42] <acidfire2008> and woudl u possible nkow how i could change my home directory when i login?
[11:43] <acidfire2008> im making note of all this so i wont ever have to ask again
[11:43] <acidfire2008> sorry to bother u man
[11:43] <_ruben> several ways to accomplish that .. one would be: sudo chown YOURUSERNAME /usr/local/torrent/acidphyre/ -R
[11:44] <_ruben> im not aware of any method to change the homedir for just ftp, afaik it just takes your homedir from /etc/passwd
[11:44] <_ruben> you could do smth like : ln -s /usr/local/torrent/acidphyre /home/YOURUSERNAME/torrent .. then after logging in with ftp you can just go into the torrent folder and up in the /usr/local/.... one
[11:48] <acidfire2008> dude u rule
[11:49] <acidfire2008> that was the prob
[11:49] <acidfire2008> i can just point myself to that dir via ftp
[11:49] <acidfire2008> so its all good
[11:49] <acidfire2008> ty so much man
[12:02] <acidfire2008> _ruben there is no way i can point the home folder to /var/cache/torrentflux/
[12:02] <acidfire2008> ?
[12:08] <_ruben> acidfire2008: not that im aware of without diving into the docs
[12:09] <_ruben> acidfire2008: well .. one way would be to use virtual users instead of the ones in /etc/passwd .. but that complicates things quite a bit
[12:10] <acidfire2008> Transferred 108 files totaling 1.39 GB in 11 minutes 44 seconds (2.37 MB/s)
[12:10] <acidfire2008> nice i had 4 threads at that speed
[12:11] <acidfire2008> ohh wow
[12:11] <acidfire2008> so to make new user accounts on the ftp i can use any of the user accounts on ubuntu i got setup?
[12:23] <_ruben> by default pure-ftpd uses the pam database, so each user on the machine will have ftp access
[12:25] <acidfire2008> thats bad ass
[12:25] <acidfire2008> so that file thing u had me set i gotta set for every user then?
[12:33] <mok0> Is there a way to see if the current kernel runs in tickless mode?
[12:39] <sommer> mok0: you can find the kernel options in /boot/config-kernel-number
[12:39] <mok0> sommer: thx
[12:39] <sommer> mok0: I'm not sure which ones have to do with ticks though, np
[12:40] <mok0> If it has "CONFIG_NO_NZ=y" it is tickless...
[12:40] <mok0> s/NZ/HZ/
[12:41] <zul> morning
[15:11] <acidfire2008> _ruben u around?
[15:12] <acidfire2008> anyone else around/
[15:12] <acidfire2008> ?
[15:13] <soren> Just ask your question.
[15:14] <acidfire2008> sudo chown creative /var/cache/torrentflux/creative -R
[15:14] <acidfire2008> well i did that and now i need to undo it
[15:14] <acidfire2008> i need to be able to write to that dir
[15:15] <acidfire2008> but when i did that command now torrentflux cant write to the directory
[15:24] <Gargoyle> acidfire2008: set the group to one torrentflux can see and give group write permissions
[15:26] <acidfire2008> i just set 777 on the dir
[15:26] <acidfire2008> it worked
[15:34] <Gargoyle> acidfire2008: that gives everyone read/write and execute permissions
[15:35] <acidfire2008> its only me on the dir
[15:35] <acidfire2008> so its no biggy
[15:35] <acidfire2008> i mean its only me on the pc
[18:10] <RainCT> Hi
[18:15] <sommer> hello
[18:40] <sommer> can you point an mx and an A record with the same name to two different IPs?
[18:40] <sommer> without it causing problems that is... seems to me like it would :)
[18:43] <Nicke_> sommer: sure, no problem. However, the MX should point to a hostname, not an IP
[18:44] <sommer> Nicke_: gotcha
[18:44] <Nicke_> I think it's pretty common to have a separate server handling the mails for a domain
[18:45] <sommer> I'm working on setting up mailman, but want the emails sent through a gateway
[18:45] <sommer> Nicke_: what if it's a subdomain (lists.example.com)
[18:45] <sommer> for example
[18:45] <Nicke_> sommer: shouldn't matter
[18:45] <sommer> Nicke_: cool, thx
[18:45] <Nicke_> (although my experiences with mailman is pretty limited)
[18:46] <Nicke_> are*
[18:46] <sommer> Nicke_: so all I need is an MX lists.example.com pointing to another hosts?
[18:46] <sommer> basically
[18:48] <Nicke_> yeah.. like lists.domain.tld  IN MX 10 mail.domain.tld
[18:48] <zul> or you could setup a smarthost in the postfix or email server to send all the email to you email server
[18:48] <Nicke_> mail.domain.tld IN A 192.xxxx
[18:49] <sommer> zul: ya... that's what I'm wanting
[18:50] <sommer> but how do outside domains know to send through my "normal" mail server?
[18:50] <sommer> I think I'm confused about the subdomain part
[18:51] <zul> through the mx record so if you have mail.domain.com all email from lists.domain.com will be sent from mail.domain.com
[18:51] <zul> and your mail server should know where to deliver the email to the local users
[18:52] <sommer> zul: sure I understand that part, but if gmail sends a message to user@lists.domain.com it'll know to go through mail.domain.com?
[18:53] <zul> it should
[18:53] <sommer> that is without receiving one first
[18:55] <sommer> ah... just needed to check the logs it is working, thanks zul and Nicke_
[18:55] <Nicke_> np : )
[18:55] <zul> no worries
[19:37] <nxvl_work> isn't going to be Server Meeting on half an hour?
[19:37] <zul> wednesday
[19:37] <nxvl_work> oh right
[19:37] <nxvl_work> it is tomorrow
[19:37] <zul> the day and time has been switched so more people can come
[19:38] <nxvl_work> yes, i knew it, but i don't know why i put it for today on my calendar
[19:38] <nxvl_work> sometime it happends
[20:52] <nealmcb> soren: is anyone from ebox coming tomorrow?
[20:53] <nealmcb> reminder: server team meeting a day from now:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[20:56] <dantalizing> why cant i create a debootstrap for hardy?
[20:57] <ScottK> dantalizing: Are you on Gutsy?
[20:58] <dantalizing> scottk: yes
[20:58] <ScottK> dantalizing: Get the version from gutsy-backports and then you'll be fine.
[20:58] <dantalizing> hmm...thought i had that enabled...thx i will check it out
[20:59] <ScottK> It worked last time I tried anyway.
[21:01] <dantalizing> scottk: you used debootstrap?
[21:01] <dantalizing> scottk: nevermind, its working...thx
[21:37] <jetole> hey guys, I know this isn't ubuntu specific but I am looking for a remote kvm/ip interface, a card that I can stick into the computer and will allow me to access not only kvm but also remote media etc so I can even install an OS in a machine that is in a rack elsewhere
[21:37] <jetole> I was wondering if anyone could recommend something
[21:49] <kraut> jetole: look for peppercon cards
[21:49] <kraut> eric II for example
[21:54] <jetole> kraut: thanks
[22:01] <sommer> is it correct to say that do-release-upgrade recommended over apt-get dist-upgrade ?
[22:02] <kraut> sommer: or aptitude
[22:03] <nealmcb> sommer: I've heard that do-release-upgrade is better also
[22:03] <sommer> cool, just wanted to make sure
[22:04]  * jetole prefers apt-get 
[22:05] <kraut> indeed, but aptitude is more intelligent to solve conflicts
[22:16] <nealmcb> but I would love to see some details on the differences, with examples from real upgrades.  I mainly heard about apt-get problems during upgrades to edgy
[22:16] <nealmcb> and with the uncharted territory of upgrading to hardy from dapper looming around the corner, this is a good time to start focusing on that...
[22:18] <corporeal> hello, i have a question about postgresql installation
[22:18] <corporeal> i did an apt-get instlal postgresql-8.2
[22:19] <corporeal> but the service wont start
[22:19] <corporeal> there arent even any logs
[22:19] <corporeal> what am i doing wrong?
[22:20] <LeChacal> hello, any one know what file system abbreviation to use in the mount command for a partition that fdisk marks as 'Linux raid autodectect', or just how to access this partition so that i can get files off of it. The drive came out of an old Gentoo web server that only had one drive in it so I don't know how it did RAID.
[22:35] <mok0> corporeal: what do you mean, it wont start?
[22:35] <mathiaz> nealmcb: IIRC, apt-get dist-upgrade cannot do stuff like remove a package during the upgrade.
[22:36] <mathiaz> nealmcb: for example, evms has to be removed when upgrading to gutsy (IIRC) - that cannot be done with a dist-upgrade
[22:36] <mathiaz> nealmcb: do-release-upgrade is made for that kind of one-time things to do
[22:40] <mok0> corporeal: if you want help, you need to specify
[22:52] <corporeal> i figured it out
[23:44] <nealmcb> mathiaz: ahh - that helps!  Will evms cause problems if it isn't removed?  Should we disable or add caveats to apt-get dist-upgrade?
[23:45] <mathiaz> nealmcb: yes. you cannot start if you don't remove evms
[23:45] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I ran into that situation.
[23:46] <mathiaz> nealmcb: but it's just an example. the release-upgrader does other things (mainly on the desktop for now)
[23:46] <mathiaz> nealmcb: That's why the supported way to upgrade a server is to use do-release-upgrade