/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/01/16/#launchpad-meeting.txt

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barry#startmeeting15:00
MootBotMeeting started at 15:00. The chair is barry.15:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:00
gmbNice.15:00
intellectronicaheh15:00
salgadolook at that15:00
barryhi everyone and welcome to this week's am/eu reviewers meeting15:00
barrywelcome mootbot (for summarizing these meetings)15:01
barryRinchen: thanks for telling me about that!15:01
barryso, who's here today?15:01
flacosteme15:01
intellectronicame15:01
bacme15:01
jtvme15:01
sinzu1me15:01
gmbme15:01
BjornTme15:01
=== sinzu1 is now known as sinzui
sinzuime me me15:02
salgadome15:02
barrydanilos: ping15:02
barry== Agenda ==15:02
barry * Roll call15:02
barry * Next meeting15:02
barry * Action items15:02
barry * Barry's participation in Asia``Pac meetings15:02
barry * Queue status15:02
barry * Mentoring update15:02
barry   * danilo mentored by intellectronica15:02
barry * Review process changes15:02
barry   * Tool update15:02
danilosme15:03
barry[TOPIC]  * Next meeting15:03
MootBotNew Topic:   * Next meeting15:03
barryweek += 1.  anyone know they will not be here?15:03
BjornTi won't be there15:03
barryBjornT: cool, thanks15:03
flacostehey danilo!15:04
statikme15:04
flacostewelcome aboard!15:04
daniloshi flacoste15:04
barry[TOPIC]  * Action items15:04
MootBotNew Topic:   * Action items15:04
danilosthanks15:04
barryi did edit a bunch of wiki pages to update some things based on our new process.  i'm sorry i don't remember which pages :/15:04
barry=== Outstanding Actions ===15:05
barry * intellectronica to work on a cover letter template15:05
intellectronicanot done, but as we said last week it will anyway probably wait until mwh is back15:05
barryintellectronica: right, thanks15:05
barry[TOPIC]  * Barry's participation in Asia``Pac meetings15:05
MootBotNew Topic:   * Barry's participation in Asia``Pac meetings15:05
barryso i chaired the asiapac meeting this week, and i think that's going to work out well15:06
barryi'm going to have to change the time after the florida sprint, but i think it will work out better for those folks anyway15:06
* danilos takes a note to go through all the reviewers wiki pages to learn the important bits15:06
barryso not much else to say, except that i think we'll have better decision making between the two teams15:07
barryany thoughts?15:07
barryor questions?15:07
barry515:07
barry415:07
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barry[TOPIC]  * Queue status15:08
MootBotNew Topic:   * Queue status15:08
barrythe queue doesn't really look too bad.  4 branches in needs-review over the sla15:08
barryjtv: any word on stub's branch?15:08
jtvbarry: that's going to take a while.  It wasn't urgent.15:09
jtvI know, I know, we all _want_ it, but...15:09
jtvRushing this one might be something we'd regret.15:09
flacostejtv: can you nudge jamesh about curtis' branch that you reviewed?15:10
jtvflacoste: already had15:10
barryjtv: no worries, thanks for the status15:10
flacostethen nudge harder :-)15:10
jtvflacoste: ooh er missus15:10
sinzuijtv: please push him if he does not nudge15:10
jtvThis is getting needlessly violent15:10
jtvnudge, budge, BOOM15:10
barryjust don't poke him with a pointed stick15:11
barrybtw, i am totally psyched that the general queue is clear.  i think this means we've fairly successfully cleared our backlog and can get back to on-calls handling most branches15:11
barrygreat job everyone!15:12
barryany other thoughts or comments on the queue status?15:12
intellectronicaehm15:12
sinzuiI think we have some delinquencies still15:12
intellectronicai started the day with a branch on my queue which wasn't, in fact finished15:12
sinzuiWe have some old branches assigned to reviewer.15:13
intellectronicanot so terrible, but we could maybe think of a way to avoid this, in the future15:13
barryintellectronica: you mean you started to review it but couldn't finish it, or didn't get to it at all?15:13
bacintellectronica: i dropped that on you at the end of the day yesterday when i finished on-call.  was that not correct?15:13
barrysinzui: you mean the 4 branches in needs-review that are old?15:13
intellectronicai started reviewing it, and when i finished the reviewee told me that actually the branch wasn't finished15:13
sinzuiI mean that looking at jamesh's page, I see many old branches in needs-review15:14
barrybac: yes, that's correct.  remember a reviewer can always put it back on the rejected queue15:14
intellectronicabac: it was, but because it missed the on call review yesterday, gavin thought the he can go on working on that branch15:14
barryintellectronica: oh, that's bad.15:14
bacintellectronica:  oh...15:14
intellectronicaso maybe we should find a way to get around that. an honest mistake, after all...15:15
gmbWell, isn't it as much an education issue as anything else.15:15
barryintellectronica: was the branch big?15:15
intellectronicagmb: education doesn't work. i mean, look at me :)15:15
gmbI mean, we know that we pass branches on to the next on-call guy but have we actually told the other developers?15:15
gmb:)15:15
intellectronicabarry: no, it wasn't terribly big.15:15
baci have gotten several comments about "i don't understand this on-call process".  so perhaps some general education is needed.15:16
barryi feel fairly strongly that we shouldn't pass on branches that are in the middle of a review.  if you're on-call and accept a branch, you're committing to finishing the review.  but it's okay if near the end of your shift you don't take another branch because it's bigger than you'll have time for15:16
intellectronicamaybe if instead of putting it on the next on-caller's queue we put it in the general queue, there's a better chance the submitter will go and check?15:17
barry[ACTION] barry will communicate the on-call process to launchpad developers15:17
MootBotACTION received:  barry will communicate the on-call process to launchpad developers15:17
bacthe branch in question was never given to me as the on-call reviewer.  it went directly to the general queue and i then assigned it, per our agreement last week.15:17
salgadomaybe it went to the general queue by mistake?15:18
intellectronicabac: oh, in that case, it's simply a mistake the submitter did. and that can always happen15:18
bacintellectronica: yes, that is the case.15:18
barryintellectronica: so the problem was that a dev had put a branch on the general queue but continued to work on it?15:19
intellectronicabarry: yes, but i think the reason he did that was because he was confused about the on-call review process15:19
intellectronicabut that's just my guess, i'm not sure if that's really what happened. mistakes do happen regardless of process we use15:20
barryyep, they do15:20
intellectronicaone thing we did in the past is the "in progress" section, but that's _more_ wiki editing, which nobody likes15:21
barryintellectronica: yep.  <obdesire>kill PendingReviews</obdesire>15:22
barryokay, i'll send a message to the list and we'll keep an eye on things15:22
barryany other queue or on-call issues?15:22
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barry215:23
barry115:23
barry[TOPIC]  * Mentoring update15:23
barry   * danilo mentored by intellectronica15:23
MootBotNew Topic:   * Mentoring update15:23
daniloshi all, as said, I'll be mentored by intellectronica, and I was thinking on starting with on-call reviewing next week (so I've got time to read up on all the review related stuff); unfortunately, intellectronica might be busy next week, so any other EU-timezone mentor for the first session would be welcome :)15:23
barrydanilos: welcome!  really glad to have you on-board15:24
danilosif no mentor comes up, I'll probably take a general queue item and process it by email with intellectronica15:24
danilosbarry: thanks15:24
gmbI think I'm the only other EU on-caller atm, but I'm still a mentee.15:24
intellectronicaon that note: please don't put anything on my queue - i won't be able to do both mentoring and independent reviews15:24
intellectronica(i'll put a /!\ in the wiki too)15:24
flacosteintellectronica: you should add a warning to your queue15:24
danilosany suggestions on how to proceed are more than welcome15:24
flacostegood15:24
flacosteBjornT: is a EU reviewer15:24
danilosintellectronica: thanks again for agreeing to be my mentor15:25
flacostebut he doesn't do on-call15:25
barrydanilos: you might want to chat with gmb to see how his on-call is working with his mentor15:25
intellectronicaand he's also busy15:25
flacosteso the number of reviews for an on-call might be too much15:25
danilosbarry: sure, will do, thanks for the poitner15:25
BjornTflacoste: and in addition, i'll be in london for most of next week, so i won't be much help.15:25
flacostei guess this means no on-call for danilos next week15:26
barrydanilos: i'd say just do a few regular reviews one day next week so you'd be only semi-on-call (i.e. doing reviews, but not bothering with #launchpad-reviews)15:26
danilosyeah, I guess so15:26
danilosbarry: agreed15:26
flacostebarry: on-call will need to assign him some reviews then15:27
barryflacoste: your fingers are faster than mine :)15:27
* sinzui will give danilos all cprov's branches to review15:27
barryyep, if you're clearing out the queue at the end of your shift, remember danilos :)15:27
gmbsinzui: Harsh.15:28
danilossinzui: yay, toss me all the easy ones :)15:28
barrysinzui: don't hurt him though, we want him to stick around :)15:28
flacostesinzui: that's baptism by fire!15:28
barrythat /is/ our hazing ritual after all!15:28
gmbdanilos: cprov branch and easy are antithetical.15:28
danilosok, sounds good, I'll be there15:28
barryit's like the reason you have interns.  someone's gotta do all the work15:28
danilosgmb: I know that much about soyuz ;)15:28
flacostegmb, sinzui: don't blame cprov, blame soyuz15:28
gmbSounds like a t-shirt line.15:29
barry<kirk voice>soooyyy  uuuuuuzzzzzz!</kirk voice>15:29
sinzuiflacoste: I'm not blaming cprov...he is just the messager15:29
barrybtw, has anybody else been approach by a dev looking for a mentor?15:29
* barry is actually surprised more devs haven't come forward15:30
jtvNobody covets the power of a Reviewer?15:30
barryjtv: they don't know what they're missing15:30
barry[ACTION] barry will contact the devs who previously expressed interest15:31
MootBotACTION received:  barry will contact the devs who previously expressed interest15:31
jtvbarry: they do.  They're under the Reviewer's heel.15:31
danilosyeah, I am here for the weekly chats about pr0n15:31
barrydanilos: i haven't gotten to that item yet15:31
barryokay, moving on...15:31
barry[TOPIC]  * Review process changes15:31
barry   * Tool update15:31
MootBotNew Topic:   * Review process changes15:32
danilosugh, a beginners mistake, jumping the gun15:32
sinzuidanilos: you will get to review my XXX branch when it is ready.15:32
* flacoste finds it interesting that danilos mention pr0n just after jtv mentions "under... heel"15:32
barryi think there's not much to say about the tools.  bzr review-submit rocks and mwh is still away15:32
gmbbarry: I'm going to work on the web-side next week.15:32
gmbAssuming nothing else gets in my way.15:32
flacostepromises, promises, promises15:33
flacostejust do it ;-)15:33
gmbflacoste: kiko's already getting all excited, so I've got to follow through at some point.15:33
barrygmb: well, week 4 == free hacking time :)15:33
danilossinzui: thanks (though, as flacoste just said on another topic: "promises, promises" :)15:33
gmb:)15:33
sinzuidanilos: I really do have an XXX branch.15:33
barryboy, you /all/ are jumping the gun.  i really don't know what to say about that, but you can use your own imagination15:34
barryanything else on the tools or process?15:34
barry515:34
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sinzuiI was think about checking make lint15:34
sinzuibefore review-submit actually submits15:35
barrysinzui: elaborate?15:35
sinzuithe command checks that the branch is committed and pushed, but not that lint is clean15:35
barrysinzui: we can't prevent submission though because we still have too many false positives15:35
bacperhaps a --force switch to override lint false positives and submit anyway15:36
barrybut it would be good to warn the users15:36
sinzuibarry: fair enough15:36
bigjools+1 to sinzui's suggestion, I always forget to run it15:36
barrybac: i think that's not a bad idea.  i've had a number of devs respond that they forgot to run it15:36
bacbe sure it runs before i'm asked to write a cover letter, though!15:37
sinzuiMy review script pulls, builds, diffs and make lint. I'm shown a report before I start my review. I think the sender should at least see the same report.15:37
bacreview-submit is great and getting better.  is it time we require its use?15:37
barrybac: maybe when the web-side is working?15:38
BjornTwe could at least include the lint output in the review request mail.15:38
baci was asked to do a review yesterday that a) has no cover letter and b) was not pushed to devpad.  review-submit would've caught both of those problems15:38
barryBjornT: +115:39
barrybac: good point.  you don't think it's too much of a pita to do that and edit PR?15:40
barrymaybe we should enable that PR stanza output by default?15:40
barrysinzui: take these ideas and run with it15:41
* sinzui looks to the weekend15:41
bacbarry: i think it is useful as is, so the PR part doesn't make it any harder.15:41
barry[VOTE] who wants to require use of bzr review-submit?  say +1 if yes, -1 if no15:42
MootBotPlease vote on:  who wants to require use of bzr review-submit?  say +1 if yes, -1 if no.15:42
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot15:42
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting15:42
sinzui+115:42
MootBot+1 received from sinzui. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 115:42
flacostebarry: we need an exception15:42
danilos+115:42
MootBot+1 received from danilos. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 215:42
barryflacoste: go ahead15:42
flacosteit's not uncommon to review a pastebin diff15:42
flacostefor trivial fix and other such niceties15:42
barryflacoste: yes definitely, that should still be fine15:43
flacosteok, then if that's still fine i'm15:43
barrybut require the tool for "normal" branches15:43
flacoste+115:43
MootBot+1 received from flacoste. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 315:43
barry+115:43
MootBot+1 received from barry. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 415:43
bac+115:43
MootBot+1 received from bac. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 515:43
BjornT+1 (give that it's possible to have exceptions as flacoste mentioned)15:43
MootBot+1 received from BjornT. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 615:43
danilosflacoste: could we not make it easier to use review-submit than use pastebin too?15:43
salgado+115:43
MootBot+1 received from salgado. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 715:43
jtv+115:43
MootBot+1 received from jtv. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 815:44
flacostedanilos: i don't think review-submit handles that nicely15:44
barryit'd be cool if review-submit could interact w/pastebin for simple changes15:44
flacostee.g. no need for a cover letter, scrap make lint, etc.15:44
danilos(even for trivial stuff, you must have it in a branch someplace, so it's almost ready)15:44
danilosbarry: yeah, just occurred to me as well :)15:44
flacostebzr diff |utilities/paste is simpler15:44
danilosbzr review-pastebin ;)15:44
barrybzr review-submit --paste :)15:44
barry#endvote15:45
barryuh mootbot15:45
BjornTdanilos: think of, for example, the case where you want part of a branch reviewed. i.e., get it reviewed while you prepare a branch to contain the given revisions.15:45
barry#endvote15:45
barryokay, so end vote doesn't work ;)15:45
barrybut i think we're unanimous15:45
barry[ACTION] barry will require bzr review-submit w/exceptions15:46
MootBotACTION received:  barry will require bzr review-submit w/exceptions15:46
barrywe're one minute over so unless there's anything else i'll turn mootbot off and we can have our off-the-record discussion led by danilos :)15:46
barry515:46
* flacoste kicks MootBot15:46
barry415:46
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barry115:46
barry#endmeeting15:46
MootBotVote is in progress. Finishing now.15:46
MootBotFinal result is 8 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 815:46
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:46.15:46
barrythanks everyone!15:47
flacostethanks barry15:47
barrydanilos: the floor is yours, jtv the heel is yours15:47
danilosthanks all, especially barry :)15:47
bacthanks barry.  thanks mootbot15:47
danilosI don't like this mootbot guy, when was he hired? :)15:47
jtvsquish15:47
barrydanilos: c'mon get to the pr0n already!15:47
danilosanyway, back to work (someone's got to make the pr0n! :)15:48
jtvand for me, dinner!15:48
cprovsinzui: why are you talking like that ... I thought you liked soyuz branches.15:48
danilosbarry: emailing you the details :)15:48
barry<kirk voice>pr00000000000000000nnnnnnnn</kirk voice>15:48
barrydanilos: :-D15:48
barryokay guys, gotta run...15:48
sinzuicprov: soyuz is both foreign to me, and has some of the oldest code15:49
sinzuicprov: I find your and bigjools's branches hard to review15:49
sinzuicprov: I'll l get my reply about your branch in a few hours. I started reviewing it before the meeting15:50
cprovsinzui: we are trying to get code in better shape, but as you can see, we are failing ;) it's not getting any easier.15:51
cprovsinzui: ok, thanks15:51
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