[00:15] <nixternal_> nalioth: are you around?
[00:16] <nalioth> hi
[00:17] <nixternal_> can you do me a favor and tell me what IP address my home account, nixternal, is using? for some reason my DNS isn't working here at school with it
[00:23] <nixternal_> any luck?
[00:24] <nalioth> una momento
[00:28] <nixternal_> thanks sir...need to get my wifi working here on campus
[00:28] <nixternal_> later
[00:34] <nixternal> yay
[00:34] <nixternal> stupid campus
[00:34] <nixternal> I can't borrow their ethernet cables anymore
[00:52] <ubotu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[00:52] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[00:52] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[00:53] <nalioth> Pici: klined (i'm lagged)
[00:53] <Pici> nalioth: okay, didnt see it initally, assumed you werent there/wasnt working.
[00:53] <PriceChild> only 4 people... madness
[00:54] <LjL> PriceChild: weak exploit
[00:55] <PriceChild> ah yes
[00:56] <LjL> elkbuntu: ping
[00:58] <Pici> @now
[00:58] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: January 16 2008, 00:58:15 - Current meeting: IRC Council
[01:02] <PriceChild> elkbuntu, nalioth LjL ? :)
[01:02] <nalioth> PriceChild: what?
[01:03] <nalioth> y'all told me 8pm
[01:03] <nalioth> it's just 7pm here now
[01:03] <LjL> meh
[01:04] <LjL> i never told you anything except 1am UTC
[01:04] <PriceChild> but but... timeanddate.com said now......
[01:04] <Pici> 8pm EST... and I didnt know it because I cant count well.
[01:04]  * LjL adds a last minute agenda item
[01:04] <LjL> all operators are *required* to set their stupid computer clock to UTC time :P
[01:05] <PriceChild> lol
[01:05] <PriceChild> awww do I have to?
[01:05] <nalioth> agenda item
[01:05] <LjL> PriceChild: too huge an effort for you huh
[01:05] <PriceChild> mmmhm
[01:05] <LjL> PriceChild: might be a problem during the summer
[01:05] <nalioth> where is the agenda?
[01:05] <PriceChild> !topic | nalioth
[01:05] <ubotu> nalioth: Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
[01:06] <Pici> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[01:06]  * PriceChild runs and hides
[01:06] <nalioth> figures
[01:06] <Pici> Nobody reads the topic.
[01:06] <PriceChild> Please don't hurt me.
[01:06] <nalioth> PriceChild: if ever actually entered a channel, i'd read it  :P
[01:06] <LjL> pff i forget every time
[01:06] <PriceChild> "nalioth doesn't /join, he's just there"
[01:07] <PriceChild> nalioth, LjL but something like that on.
[01:07] <PriceChild> whoops...
[01:08] <PriceChild> i managed to change channel whilst typing that :/
[01:08] <PriceChild> soldats, how can I help you?
[01:08] <soldats> can i be rechecked im on a different distro so nothing is set up right
[01:08] <soldats> i changed prts to 8001
[01:09] <LjL> soldats: you're good
[01:09] <Pici> Are you cheating on us with another distro?
[01:09] <Pici> soldats: you can rejoin #ubuntu now
[01:09] <soldats> well i wanted to try out gentoo again to gain more experience with linux in general. i lo\/e learning
[01:10] <soldats> my key is borked sorry
[01:10] <soldats> thank you
[01:44] <elkbuntu> PriceChild, sorry, i slept in courtesy of a 5am bed the night before last, and a battle with a spider until 2:30am last night
[01:45] <PriceChild> elkbuntu, we'll live :)
[01:45] <PriceChild> The intarwebs aren't the most important things in the world.
[01:45] <elkbuntu> if the wildlife keep messing with me like this, i dont know if i will :Þ
[01:45] <PriceChild> lol
[01:45] <PriceChild> you'll have a couple of kangaroos in there in a minute
[01:48] <RyanPrior> What's the deal with the 3 floodbots that flood the room with messages?
[01:48] <RyanPrior> Is it a joke?
[01:49] <nalioth> RyanPrior: flood the room with messages?
[01:49] <nalioth> what are you talking about?
[01:49] <RyanPrior> nalioth: They keep changing settings and stuff, usually many times in a row, and each one will cause many IRC clients to print lines of text, pushing away the conversations.
[01:50] <nalioth> RyanPrior: you can safely /ignore them all.
[01:50] <nalioth> they are there for channel protection
[01:50] <RyanPrior> I assume it's somehow necessary to have 3 of them?
[01:51] <nalioth> RyanPrior: they are on a failover system.  they are located on 3 differnent boxes
[01:51] <RyanPrior> That's a lot of protection./
[01:51] <LjL> stdin: that was completely sarcasm, by the way.
[01:52] <stdin> yeah, I caught that
[02:54] <ubotu> nickrud called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[02:55] <Madpilot> random idiot bot
[02:55] <Pici> hrm.. that bot seems to be in a lot of channels
[02:57] <nalioth> Pici: it was in a lot of channels
[02:57] <Pici> nalioth: nice :)
[02:59] <nalioth> unwelcome bot.  no owner online.  Bye-Bye
[03:04] <Pici> nalioth: bots back.
[03:05] <Madpilot> hmm, not interfering w/ ubotu currently
[03:41] <stdin> shitbowl: change your nick please
[03:43]  * nalioth hands stdin for his mouth
[03:43] <nalioth> some soap
[03:43] <nalioth> bleh
[03:44]  * Pici washes nalioth's mouth out with stdin 
[03:45]  * Hobbsee washes Pici out with soap
[05:34] <ubotu> In #kubuntu, Agent_bob said: !nv is pretty well supported.
[06:53] <Adien_imutz> alow.
[06:54] <Tm_T> moin
[06:54] <Tm_T> Adien_imutz: how can we help you?
[06:59] <jussi01> wow, it talks!
[06:59] <Tm_T> Adien_imutz: helloo
[06:59] <Tm_T> jussi01: yes, I do, at times
[07:00] <jussi01> Tm_T: I thought that was the bot...
[07:00] <Tm_T> no idea
[07:01] <jussi01> I remember the mask...
[07:01] <jussi01> although the other one was sy002 IIRC...
[07:03] <jussi01> elkbuntu: you around?
[07:04] <elkbuntu> jussi01, yep?
[07:05] <elkbuntu> Adien_imutz, can we help you?
[08:30] <ardchoille> I love it when several ops pipe in with basically the same answer :)
[08:30] <ardchoille> You people ROCK!
[08:30] <Tm_T> well
[08:31] <Tm_T> I WAS THERE FIRST!
[08:31]  * Tm_T hides
[08:31] <ardchoille> hehe
[08:31] <ardchoille> fwiw, Seattle in the winder time sucks. Several power outages in the last few days :(
[08:32] <Tm_T> Jucato: ?
[08:32] <Jucato> yes?
[08:32] <Tm_T> you opped?
[08:32] <Jucato> yes
[08:32] <ardchoille> Maybe standing by, this is starting to sound troll-ish
[08:33] <Tm_T> :)
[08:33] <Jucato> hm.. ok...
[08:33] <Tm_T> Jucato <3
[08:33]  * Jucato has never tried to take op from a fellow op before...
[08:33] <Hobbsee> where?
[08:33] <Jucato> well of course it's been done to me numerous times by nixternal
[08:33] <Tm_T> Jucato: it is joke from my side, son :)
[08:34] <Jucato> yep.
[08:34] <Tm_T> Jucato: anyway, you're available for some time now?
[08:34] <Tm_T> or other ops there
[08:34] <Jucato> but nixternal's way is better. he gets ChanServ to do the dirty work for him :)
[08:34] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: #k
[08:34] <Tm_T> Jucato: heh
[08:34] <Tm_T> I need to make some calls, running out of food
[08:35] <Tm_T> IF I'm able to call anymore
[08:35] <Jucato> :)
[08:35] <Jucato> ardchoille is there. and Hobbsee just came in. I'm sure one of us will be there to see if anything happens :)
[08:35] <Tm_T> anyway, patch me there, see you soon I hope ->
[08:35] <Jucato> patch -p0 < Tm_T
[08:35] <ardchoille> hehe
[08:36] <Jucato> oh wait.. that applies a patch named Tm_T... doesn't patch Tm_T.. :/
[08:36] <nixternal> :p
[08:36] <Jucato> :D
[08:49] <ardchoille> Quest
[08:50] <ardchoille> that guy is getting on my nerves
[08:50] <ardchoille> He keeps pm'ing me despite my telling him torefrain from it
[08:50] <Tm_T> ardchoille: you're not the only one
[08:50] <ardchoille> lol
[08:54] <ardchoille> Why does the nick "jono" ring a bell?
[08:54] <Tm_T> ardchoille: he is "community leader"
[08:54] <ardchoille> Ah, that's it
[09:48] <Madpilot> interesting - hadn't seen Floodbot in operation before
[09:51] <Amaranth> it's pretty nice
[09:51] <Amaranth> i don't think it should give them two chances though
[09:52] <Amaranth> but i suppose that'd be hard to write and easy to take advantage of
[12:26] <ubotu> stf called the ops in #kubuntu ()
[12:30] <Jucato> done
[13:26] <ubotu> ikonia called the ops in #ubuntu (_nix_ regular troll swearing)
[13:26] <jussi01> someone watch nix in #u
[13:26] <ikonia> too late
[13:26] <ikonia> I saw him come in
[13:26] <jussi01> lol
[13:26] <Mez> !staff
[13:26] <ikonia> and as I was typing in here he started up
[13:27] <ubotu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2 or Christel,  I could use a bit of your time :)
[13:27] <ikonia> sorry - I was typing too slow
[13:27] <Mez> #ubuntu chan ban list is full ... @staff
[13:27] <ikonia> is it really
[13:27] <ikonia> wow
[13:27] <Mez> * #ubuntu *!*@122.168.42.124 :Channel ban list is full
[13:27] <Hobbsee> again?
[13:28] <ikonia> again !!!
[13:28] <ikonia> wow
[13:28] <Mez> do we not have allowance for long ban list?
[13:28]  * Mez removes any bans he set before nov
[13:32] <Dave2> Mez, you DO
[13:32] <Dave2> you've managed to fill up the long ban list...
[13:32] <Mez> Dave2, :(
[13:32]  * Mez stes mode #ubuntu +uberbanlist
[13:32] <Dave2> bear in mind that +e, +d, +I, etc all count towards it.
[13:32]  * Mez sets mode Mez -typo
[13:34] <elkbuntu> Mez, time to weed out all dynamic hostmasks
[13:35]  * Mez volunteers Gary to do that
[13:35] <elkbuntu> yeah, well after last time you did it, you're not doing it again :Þ
[13:35] <Mez> I was clearing my bans
[13:35] <Mez> and I just cleared my old bans correctly
[13:36] <elkbuntu> without clearing every ban?
[13:36] <Mez> !no staff is <sed> s/Dave2/Dave2, Gary/
[13:36] <ubotu> I'll remember that Mez
[13:36] <Mez> elkbuntu, indeed I did :D
[13:37] <Mez> http://rafb.net/p/uOYQj084.html
[13:37] <elkbuntu> Mez, keep an eye on UBUNTUISLOVED while i clear out all these dynamic bans
[13:38] <Mez> nothing in the backlog
[13:38] <Mez> want me to clear bans?>
[13:39] <ikonia> elkbuntu: he's a regular pain
[13:39] <elkbuntu> ikonia, which is why i asked mez to hawk him
[13:40] <Mez> elkbuntu, I've got a list of bans here that are before start of december... want me to remove them ?
[13:40] <ikonia> ahhh
[13:40] <ikonia> thought it was because of his current behaviour
[13:41] <elkbuntu> Mez, make sure they're not protecting from really nasty trolls
[13:42] <Mez> theres only a few
[13:42] <elkbuntu> Mez, tell me when you're done then
[13:42] <Mez> watch the channel and see if I remove anything that I didnt notice.
[13:42] <Mez> mass remove in 3 sec
[13:43] <Mez> done (noticed one as it scrolled past and readded)
[13:43] <elkbuntu> you unbanned several all-host bans there
[13:44] <Mez> hmm ?
[13:44] <elkbuntu> fagubuntu for example
[13:44] <elkbuntu> superpigs for another
[13:44] <Mez> yeah, noticed that as I was reading back too ..
[13:45] <Mez> those two readded
[13:45] <ikonia> superpigs - what a great nick
[13:46] <elkbuntu> the usuario one is a bot net iirc
[13:47] <elkbuntu> pray tell, did you check any of these against the ban tracker or did you just mass select?
[13:49] <elkbuntu> https://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/bans.cgi?query=usuario&kicks=on&oldbans=on&bans=on&oldmutes=on&mutes=on for example
[13:57] <elkbuntu> oh, and i just notice now, you removed two forwards to -read-topic, so trolls will have fun next time they exploit while they're in the channel
[14:11] <LjL> Amaranth, the floodbot should *not* give pasters two chances. rather, it should mute and keep the mute on *until they've finished pasting*. if the mute is removed earlier, then there's either crazy lag on freenode, or a bug in the algorithm
[14:13] <LjL> ... but in the case at hand, i suppose that guy actually stopped flooding on purpose, to get unmuted.
[14:21] <elkbuntu> whoa, had more than i thought
[14:24] <LjL> !latest
[14:24] <ubotu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should. Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability.
[14:24] <LjL> !-latest
[14:24] <ubotu> latest is <alias> sense - added by Seveas on 2006-06-19 13:43:19
[14:24] <LjL> !highno
[14:24] <ubotu> A higher version number does not mean that it's better. Especially with packages such as the linux kernel. The packages in the Ubuntu repositories are stable and will work fine. You should have a better reason than "newer" when considering compiling from source or using 3rd party repos.
[14:25] <LjL> !no latest is <alias> highno
[14:25] <ubotu> You are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm
[14:25] <LjL> !no latest is <alias> highno
[14:25] <ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
[14:28] <LjL> stdin: he's right about it, the release notes confirm
[14:30] <stdin> LjL: well if it's not even in debian unstable, there's not a lot one can do except try the .deb (can be dangerous) or compile
[14:32] <LjL> stdin: of course. but if one has a valid reason, i'm not totally against taking such risks (as long as one *understands* there are such risks, that is)
[14:33] <stdin> LjL: agreed on that point
[14:51] <robot_jesus> weird, why did kubuntu kick me to  here
[14:51] <jpatrick> robot_jesus: one sec
[14:51] <LjL> robot_jesus: i don't know, but let me check
[14:52] <LjL> !language | robot_jesus
[14:52] <ubotu> robot_jesus: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
[14:52] <LjL> were you aware of that policy of ours?
[14:54] <LjL> meh, i can't make cat read from stdin.
[14:54] <stdin> cat << EOF
[14:55] <LjL> stdin: oh right, i'm such a fool.
[14:55] <jpatrick> LjL: well, he'll know best
[14:55] <LjL> indeed that was merely a covert way to highlight him...
[14:56] <stdin> cat should understand "-" too, so "echo 1|cat -" will work
[14:56] <LjL> stdin, don't waste your brain and just look above :P
[14:56] <ikonia> didn't think you could echo into cat
[14:56] <ikonia> does work though
[14:57] <LjL> stdin: you can just do "echo 1 | cat" for that matter, cat reads from stdin by default
[14:57] <ikonia> yes
[14:57] <LjL> "cat" with no arguments reads from stdin and writes to stdout
[14:57] <ikonia> didn't seem obvious
[14:57] <stdin> yeah, btu you can do "echo --- | cat file1 - file2" to get a nice separator :)
[14:57] <LjL> oh sure :)
[15:02] <robot_jesus> ahh cause I was calling everone sl*ts
[15:03] <jpatrick> !guidelines > robot_jesus
[15:03]  * robot_jesus slaps jpatrick
[15:03]  * robot_jesus runs
[15:03] <jpatrick> ?
[15:06] <LjL> ...
[15:06] <LjL> i think the ban stays?
[15:07] <jpatrick> doesn't look like it
[15:07] <stdin> well I removed the forward, doen't look like discussion will help
[15:48] <Prez> hello
[15:49] <Prez> any idea on how to print using canon pixma ip1200?  I tried installing drivers for ip2200 ver2.60, but nothing..
[15:49] <Prez> oops
[15:49] <Prez> wrong channel
[15:49] <Prez> hmm.. got thrown into wrong channel..
[15:51] <Jack_Sparrow> There is usually a reason that happens..  Hold on for a few...  Someone will check it out...
[15:51] <crdlb> yeah, you're being forwarded for your nick
[15:51] <crdlb> it's not targetted at you
[15:56] <LjL> elkbuntu
[15:59] <LjL> Prez, please join #ubuntu, sorry for the inconvenience.
[15:59] <LjL> Prez, i suggest however that you register to freenode and obtain a unique IRC identify.
[15:59] <LjL> !register | Prez
[15:59] <ubotu> Prez: By default, only registered users can send private messages - Information about  registering your Freenode nick can be found at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
[16:00] <Prez> ok, thanks
[16:01] <Prez> will do..
[16:21] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: because you joined #ubuntu+1...?
[16:21] <Jack_Sparrow> Actually, I didnt
[16:21] <LjL> well, you did, whether it was voluntary or not i don't know
[16:22] <LjL> [17:05:40] --> Jack_Sparrow has joined this channel (n=jack@ppp-69-236-245-93.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net).
[16:22] <Jack_Sparrow> Yea, I got it that I joined.. dont know how I was pushed there...
[16:22] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: it wasn't an /invite, because nobody was opped. you might be banforwarded from somewhere
[16:23] <Jack_Sparrow> Just found it odd..  I have not tried to join any channels this am..
[16:23] <Jack_Sparrow> No biggie, just dazed and confused
[16:25] <elkbuntu> LjL, ?
[16:25] <elkbuntu> oh, he finally spoke?
[16:25] <LjL> elkbuntu: well, that one did, but i don't know if it's "your" prez
[16:25] <LjL> we also got a PreZLaptop
[16:27] <elkbuntu> well that guy is going to need a new nick anyway... this is for prezlaptop: -NickServ-           Last Seen: 3 hours 31 minutes 29 seconds ago (PreZ seen 12 hours 46 minutes 40 seconds ago)
[16:27] <PriceChild> Jack_Sparrow, check your server window to see if a redirect is listed there.
[16:28] <Jack_Sparrow> Nothing listed there...
[16:28] <LjL> elkbuntu: anyway *.ni shouldn't have anything to do with the "bad" prez?
[16:28] <Jack_Sparrow> LjL: Odd that even after you allowed him he did not join.. (Prez)
[16:29] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: he was busy changing his nickname to something that nickserv would allow him to register
[16:29] <LjL> and after he did, the ban exemption i gave him wouldn't work anymore
[16:29] <LjL> since it was bound to the nickname "prez"
[16:30] <LjL> changed it now
[16:30] <Jack_Sparrow> Ok.. I have a page to help with his printer ready when he shows up
[16:30] <elkbuntu> he shouldnt need a ban exempt at all now
[16:31] <jpatrick> LjL: is neocrysis who I think he is?
[16:31] <LjL> jpatrick, i've had this like ready to paste into #ubuntu-irc for some time: #ubuntu-es operators, [17:23:44] --> neocrysis has joined this channel (n=chatzill@190.20.199.144).
[16:31] <LjL> but i don't really know.
[16:31] <LjL> his IP does begin with 190, but that's about it
[16:32] <jpatrick> well, he's /whois isn't helpful
[16:32] <LjL> he's on chatzilla, it can't be
[16:33] <jpatrick> well, he left, but fmaq is part of the group
[16:33]  * jpatrick thinks he's nearing channel limit again
[17:01] <PriceChild> gah capital I, lowercase i....
[17:01] <PriceChild> and what was that invite on?! :
[17:09] <ubotu> In #kubuntu, cobb28 said: ubotu: is that the only big issue currently? as opposed to a 32bit install? I;ve had bad luck with kubuntu in the past but would like to give it another try..currenlty using ubuntu with no issues but my new PC is coming ina few hours and I;d like ot do a fresh format
[17:09] <jpatrick> ignore that^^
[17:10] <ardchoille> Well, the bot is the only friend some folks have in there
[17:10] <ardchoille> :P
[17:10] <jussi01> hehe
[17:31]  * crdlb wonders where people find pdfs that evince can't open ...
[17:35] <jdong> crdlb: the ones with sounds/movies? :D
[17:40] <jdong> oh I just found my adverb of the day!
[17:40] <jdong> bug 177492
[17:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177492 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "EXA is balls-achingly slow" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177492
[17:49] <Amaranth> jdong: that's keybuk for you :)
[17:50] <jdong> :)
[19:39] <iostat> Does anyone know why I keep getting forwarded here when I try to join #ubuntu?
[19:40] <PriceChild> hey iostat, one moment
[19:43] <PriceChild> iostat, could you change your quit message please?
[19:51] <jpatrick> what's the policy on banning if ban is evaded?
[19:51] <PriceChild> jpatrick, ban again
[19:51] <PriceChild> jpatrick, try and talk to them in pm
[19:52] <PriceChild> jpatrick, infact...
[19:52] <PriceChild> jpatrick, talk to them *before* banning again.
[19:52] <PriceChild> Try and sort things out first, half the time they don't realise what's happenned.
[19:53] <jpatrick> PriceChild: I think this guy's a special case (evsa)
[19:53] <PriceChild> If its malicious ban evading then just fight it.
[19:53] <PriceChild> ban again
[19:54] <iostat> I would change it if I knew how.
[19:54] <iostat> Kinda new to the whole IRC thing.
[19:54] <PriceChild> iostat, obviously not.
[19:54] <iostat> how so?
[19:54] <PriceChild> iostat, No client has that quit message by default. You have changed it yourself already.
[19:55] <iostat> THat is true, but I thought I changed it for that session only.  I issued a quit command with the text in question.
[19:55] <iostat> Didn't realize it would persist
[19:55] <iostat> I don't know how to change it without quitting.
[19:56] <PriceChild> iostat, it may not be persistant, i haven't seen another quit from you
[19:56] <crdlb> you may have just quit with that message once, the problem is just that it showed up in #ubuntu
[19:56] <PriceChild> iostat, if you can promise it won't show up again i'll remove the ban
[19:56] <iostat> Oh...
[19:56] <iostat> That's why I can't get into the room?
[19:56] <PriceChild> Yes.
[19:56] <iostat> Gotcha, let me see if I can change it with a quit really quick. I'll be back.
[19:57] <jpatrick> LjL: ping
[19:57] <PriceChild> !guidelines > iostat
[19:57] <PriceChild> iostat, the ban has been removed. Check out the link from ubotu please :)
[19:58] <PriceChild> jpatrick, need him to do with the above?
[19:58] <iostat> Thanks sir/ma'am!
[19:58] <PriceChild> how polite :)
[19:58] <jdong> ma'am.
[19:58] <jdong> *hides*
[19:59] <jpatrick> PriceChild: Crysis (evsa) wants to rejoin, but he is rather troublesome and I've had to ban him multiple times
[19:59] <PriceChild> jdong, now look here chap! That's just not acceptable - whatwhat.
[19:59] <PriceChild> jpatrick, talking to him in pm?
[20:00] <jpatrick> PriceChild: do you know of the situation with him?
[20:01] <PriceChild> Nope, I assume then its beyond that?
[20:01] <PriceChild> (lj.l is /away which is why i'm bothering with this :) )
[20:02] <jpatrick> I've seen bad stuff with him and I've heard stuff from others
[20:08] <PriceChild> Hmm what else has happenned this month which i can add to reports.
[20:08] <jpatrick> what's in it?
[20:08] <PriceChild> jpatrick, have you tried talking to him at all?
[20:08] <PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/January2008
[20:09] <jpatrick> PriceChild: he's back in, and another op told me they'd done it
[20:09] <PriceChild> ok
[20:09] <jpatrick> now he's /msg'ed em
[20:22] <jpatrick> ok, I hate this guy
[20:36] <LjL> jpatrick: your choice, but if it were mine, and modulo any noise he might manage to stir up about it..
[20:36] <LjL> don't remove that ban.
[20:37] <jpatrick> LjL: too late
[20:37] <jpatrick> LjL: now, he's bashing me in /msg
[20:37] <LjL> jpatrick: but he's banned or not?
[20:37] <PriceChild> better than bashing you in channel
[20:37] <jpatrick> I've decided to just ignore
[20:37] <jpatrick> LjL: another op would like to just see him disappear
[20:38] <LjL> by the way: [20:03:39] <Gamze_ilayda__^^> kkl bak Sana msnd Ne Göstreecm || ilayda_28f H o t m a i l
[20:38] <LjL> spam PM from this guy
[20:38] <jpatrick> LjL: the others in the channel wanted the ban removed
[20:38] <LjL> jpatrick, well, i know that feeling.
[20:38] <LjL> i see he just joined.
[20:39] <jpatrick> ... [Excess Flood]
[20:39] <jpatrick> < Elidix> jodete
[20:39] <jpatrick> +1000
[20:40]  * LjL wonders why he excess flooded
[20:43] <jpatrick> do we have to reply to /msg's?
[20:44] <jpatrick> cos I have better things to do
[20:45] <LjL> jpatrick: are you kidding?
[20:45] <LjL> hell no.
[20:45] <LjL> tell him to come to the ops channel if he has complains
[20:45] <LjL> and that's it
[20:45] <LjL> (not *this* ops channel though please... the -es one if you have it, or -irc otherwise)
[20:45] <LjL> (i think you guys really should have an ops channel anyway)
[20:46] <jpatrick> I tried making one, it was considered unecessary due to the size of the channel
[20:48] <LjL> maybe... but you do seem to have both disagreements among ops, and people wanting to appeal
[20:48] <LjL> so it's something to consider imho
[20:49] <LjL> meanwhile anyway, if you don't feel like replying to PMs, just don't
[20:49] <LjL> jpatrick: remember there is a /silence command on freenode
[20:49] <LjL> (although i personally prefer soft-ignore)
[20:49] <jpatrick> LjL: yeah, I've opted for the soft-ignore
[20:51] <nalioth> LjL: lots of crap clients try to /names on connect.  if the person has a lot of large channels on autojoin, this can flood them off
[20:51] <nalioth> and yeah, i don't think any ops should use /silence or /ignore
[20:51] <LjL> nalioth: why would they /names? the NAMES list is given *automatically* by the server when a channel is joined
[20:52] <LjL> nalioth: uhm, i think /silence is fine... as an op, you can still see whatever's going on in the channel, but you don't have to be verbally abused in a query and put up with it
[20:52] <nalioth> LjL: as i said "crap clients"
[20:52] <LjL> although i still prefer to exercise the force of will to just avoid replying to the insults
[20:52] <LjL> but that's just me
[20:52] <nalioth> LjL: but what if your query abuser is giving you good info?
[20:53] <LjL> nalioth: what good info would that be? "hey, my other friends is going to flood the channel in 5 minutes"?
[20:53] <nalioth> LjL: what if (heaven forbid) your query abuser says 'hi [your real name], i know where you live and am gonna visit you with malfeasance in mind' ?
[20:53] <nalioth> and yes, this has happened
[20:54] <LjL> nalioth: oh sure, i've been told that.
[20:54] <nalioth> LjL: but your real name is listed in your info
[20:54] <LjL> nalioth: what if they said that? they're mostly in other jurisdictions and sane enough to not leave evidence of themselves saying that
[20:55] <nalioth> LjL: i know people who have been so threated and the person followed through
[20:55] <LjL> i solve that by listing my real name in the real name field of my client ;)
[20:55] <LjL> usually i'm just threatened of being DoSed
[20:56] <LjL> but once i *did* have my real name given to me, which was quite a surprise given i had it *not* publicly given back then...
[20:56] <LjL> which a couple of unpleasant threats
[20:56] <LjL> they did not follow through at least :)
[20:56] <LjL> i was pretty scared about them knowing my realname though, i must admit
[20:57] <LjL> still don't know how they managed that... perhaps they were using google and i was still using altavista ;)
[20:57] <jpatrick> LjL: Launchpad
[20:58] <LjL> jpatrick: err no, i'm talking about something waaay earlier than launchpad
[20:58] <jpatrick> aha
[20:58] <LjL> *now* my realname is listed on my /whois
[20:58] <LjL> i'm talking about another irc network, in 1999 or so
[20:59] <LjL> anyway - that's a good point, but still it's the operator's business IMHO
[20:59] <jpatrick> any reason for +o on #kubuntu? :)
[20:59] <LjL>  /ignore is bad because the operator can't then see what's going on in the *channel*
[20:59] <PriceChild> I've just added Jack_Sparrow to the access list of #ubuntu. Looking forward to seeing his
[20:59] <LjL> whether or not they want to know what goes on in their *queries* should be their choice
[20:59] <PriceChild> gah meant to press backspace there...
[20:59] <nalioth> LjL: you repelling boarders?
[20:59] <LjL> jpatrick: i must have forgot that from yesterday
[21:00] <jpatrick> hehe
[21:00] <PriceChild> Looking forward to seeing him further his contributions to #ubuntu and yes, just a fyi
[21:00] <LjL> nalioth: just forgot it on for hours
[21:02] <PriceChild> Hello there Crysis :)
[21:02] <PriceChild> How can I help?
[21:03] <Crysis> hello
[21:03] <Crysis> well first
[21:03] <Crysis> do you speak spanish
[21:03] <Crysis> ??
[21:04] <LjL> jpatrick, grrrr
[21:04] <jpatrick> LjL: I didn't do anything
[21:04] <LjL> Crysis: un poquito. podemos irnos a #ubuntu-irc, onde es mas tolerado no hablar ingles?
[21:04] <stdin> LjL: heh, the last place I can see you getting +o is Jan 14 23:58:55 UTC
[21:05] <LjL> stdin: eh, can't have been that far away in the past :P let me check
[21:06] <LjL> jpatrick, i guess you and your fellow -es ops may want to join -irc...
[21:06] <LjL> stdin: [Tue Jan 15 2008] [00:58:58]
[21:06] <LjL> wow, anyway.
[21:07] <stdin> LjL: is that UTC or?
[21:07] <LjL> +1
[21:07] <LjL> so yes it's yours
[21:07] <LjL> partly my fault
[21:08] <LjL> but partly the fault of whoever did not deop me :P
[21:08] <stdin> I can't believe I didn't notice actually
[21:08] <stdin> means I haven't looked at the user list in at least that long.
[21:09] <LjL> well, if someone did *that*, then i cannot be blamed at all. :P
[21:10] <ikonia> evening all
[21:14] <ikonia> I'd appriciate an opinion on something thats being dicussed in #ubuntu
[21:14] <PriceChild> What's up?
[21:14] <ikonia> nothing up
[21:14] <ikonia> I just think I'm being dumb
[21:15] <ikonia> someone is arguing that there machine is at %100 cpu due to folding at home clients and their machine is "lagging" I've suggeted that %100 cpu is not good and will effect your desktops behaviour and he's stating "it's always been like that and never lagged"
[21:15] <ikonia> I can't accept that
[21:15] <ikonia> or am I missing something
[21:15] <LjL> err ikonia, i think you're missing something
[21:15] <ikonia> am I ?
[21:15] <ikonia> what
[21:15] <ikonia> I do'nt understand how that can be "ok"
[21:15] <ikonia> if his cpu is %100 it will queue for time
[21:16] <ikonia> eg: things will respond slow
[21:16] <LjL> ikonia: if there is a process being scheduled *with a low priority* (such as is often the case with SETI and the like), it shouldn't affect other processes
[21:16] <LjL> if it's got the lowest priority of all processes, it shouldn't affect the response of anything, at least in theory (then linux works slightly differently but)
[21:16] <LjL> (since nice levels are not really priorities per se)
[21:17] <ikonia> LjL: I can accept nice levels give priority, but if something is hogging %100 the process of interupting - re-allocating cpu to $X process, then resuming is surly an over head
[21:17] <ikonia> anything running at %100 will have an effect
[21:17] <ikonia> again, or am I not getting how this client works
[21:18] <LjL> ikonia, yes, any effects will be purely in terms of additional context switching overhead however, not any queueing of "real" processing stuff
[21:18] <LjL> sure, context switches *will* have an impact on a real system
[21:18] <ikonia> yes, sorry, that was perhaps a bad description on my time
[21:18] <LjL> but it wouldn't surprise me if that were pretty negligible in practice
[21:18] <ikonia> eg: the wait time will spike
[21:19] <ikonia> I've never run folding, so I don't know how this client uses resouces apart from the users description
[21:19] <LjL> ikonia: but why? don't many systems (not sure about linux) implement idleness by having an "idle" process that just, well, does nothing all the time (aside from perhaps sending "go to sleep mode" instructions to the CPU)?
[21:19] <LjL> a busy loop that is
[21:20] <LjL> sure, such a busy loop would probably not have any memory allocated, so there's hardly any swapping going on ever, and also changing the VM tables is easier than in other cases probably, but still
[21:21] <ikonia> just pondering what you've said.
[21:23] <LjL> ikonia: this about it this way. the kernel is waken up every n seconds (well, fractions of a second) by an interrupt. n might be smaller than the maximum time quantum that a process is allowed to run for while other processes are in a ready state
[21:23] <Seveas> is there any freenode staff available for a channel request?
[21:23] <ikonia> LjL: that bit I understand
[21:23] <LjL> however, if the running process is the lowest possible priority, the system will conceivable take its "running" status away from it even if its quantum has not yet expired
[21:24] <LjL> so, after n, any ready higher-priority process will be run
[21:24] <Seveas> @lart ompaul
[21:24] <LjL> whether or not a lower priority process was previously executing
[21:25] <Dave2> Seveas, what sort?
[21:25] <LjL> ikonia: mind, i'm not really talking about linux in particular here, of which i don't really know the details - just an "ideal" generic round-robin+priorities timesharing system
[21:25] <Seveas> Dave2, dropping a vacant channel registered 3.75 years ago, owner last seen almost 3 years ago
[21:25]  * ompaul lags - is that not larts enough
[21:25] <ompaul> ping me
[21:25] <ikonia> LjL: I suspose the effect on the machine will depend on how often higher processes are waking and sleeping
[21:26] <Dave2> Seveas, which?
[21:26] <Dave2> (PM if you want)
[21:26] <Seveas> was about to ask ;)
[21:27] <ikonia> LjL: excellent food for thought
[21:27] <LjL> ikonia, but that will only affect how efficiently "SETI" (let's just call it that way - the background, CPU intensive process anyway) will be run, not how efficiently *other*, higher-pri, processes will be run.  these will have the CPU at their disposal after at most "n", regardless of whether SETI is running
[21:28] <LjL> ikonia: of course, if SETI also takes an amount of memory that prevents efficient file caching (say) or that even makes the kernel swap other processes out... the whole thing changes completely
[21:28] <ikonia> LjL: no, I'm not talking high ram usage - just pure cpu in this example
[21:28] <LjL> but in the framework of a CPU intensive, zero I/O usage, small-memory footprint background program, it should hold
[21:32] <LjL> ikonia: see it this way. why would a high-pri process suddenly need to wake up? well, ultimately because of an interrupt. because i pressed a key, for instance. when that happens, the kernel is *immediately* called, and if it's not stupid, it *immediately* handles the interrupt
[21:33] <LjL> ikonia: all it has to do is to context switch to the process that needs to be awaken. which does take some time... but it would take time even if it had to switch to it from "nowhere"
[21:33] <ikonia> LjL: nice desciption
[21:35] <ikonia> LjL: thank you, some more research on actually how this is handled in more detail is needed
[21:36] <LjL> ikonia, actually understanding how it's handled *in linux* is probably a nightmare. the linux scheduler is, for the little i know... uhm, slightly complicated.
[21:36] <LjL> i mean, it's probably interesting research to do, i personally don't feel in the mood though ;)
[21:36] <ikonia> LjL: I've done work with the scheduler before when looking at kswapd issues a while ago, so perhaps it's now time to go deeper
[21:37] <stdin> hmm, why is yacc always in -unregged?
[21:38] <Seveas> stdin, that nickname rings a rather disturbing bell....
[21:39] <stdin> Seveas: he always seem to join there, for no good reason I can tell
[21:40] <ikonia> LjL: +1 drink
[21:40] <LjL> stdin: a question i often asked
[21:40] <ikonia> thank you
[21:40] <LjL> ikonia: discovered something interesting?
[21:41] <LjL> Seveas: can you focus which bell it is?
[21:41] <LjL> i have been disturbed by his joining -unregged for a long time now.
[21:41] <Seveas> LjL, not immediately
[21:41] <ikonia> LjL: not yet, you've just prompted me to check a few things out
[21:44] <danroj> hi
[21:44] <Seveas> hi danroj
[21:44] <ubotu> In ubotu, ksbalaji said: What is startup ¨Hz ?¨
[21:44] <LjL> hi danroj, how can we help you today?
[21:45]  * danroj my ddesktop black mac www.gfc.edu.co/~danroj/darwood.png
[21:45] <Seveas> danroj, this channel is only for operator issues
[21:46] <Seveas> if you have no such issues to discuss, you're more than welcome to leave
[21:46] <danroj> Seveas,
[21:46] <jpatrick> LjL: another #u-es guy
[21:46] <jpatrick> ...
[21:46] <PriceChild> jpatrick, we know thanks
[21:46] <LjL> nice desktop though
[21:46] <Seveas> too mac
[21:46] <danroj> i are op of channel #danroj
[21:46] <Seveas> danroj, that has nothing to do with the ubuntu channels
[21:47] <PriceChild> danroj, to clarify seveas', this is a channel for "ubuntu" operator issues.
[21:47] <PriceChild> gah i missed a word out there but nevermind
[21:47] <stdin> that channel name is probably against freenode channel naming policy too...
[21:47] <Seveas> danroj, so?
[21:48] <danroj> seanw, ubuntu
[21:48] <Jack_Sparrow> PriceChild: I get back and try to copy our conversation to my notepad and really goofed it... Sorry for the dcc attempt
[21:48] <PriceChild> Jack_Sparrow, i saw nothing?
[21:48] <Jack_Sparrow> Good.. it said you had dcc blocked..
[21:48] <ompaul> nat is evil
[21:48] <Seveas> it is
[21:52] <ompaul> Seveas, I had a failing install today - could not get debian or ubuntu onto a box - not too sure what was killing the install - but I got FreeBSD on it but it was taking too long so I pxe booted the box with ltsp :-)
[21:52] <ompaul> I have forgotten so much about FreeBSD I could not even add a package pkg_add -r whatever
[21:53] <ompaul> could not remember file syntax
[21:53] <ompaul> strange - I guess that is what not using something for almost 10 years
[21:58] <danroj> 8[22:01] <nalioth> hmm
[22:02] <LjL> yes nalioth, we would all be glad if he managed to do something that allowed you to take stronger action.
[22:03] <LjL> he and his friend.
[22:06] <nalioth> which friend (he has a crew)
[22:10] <LjL> nalioth: well was thinking of evsa=crysis right now
[22:10] <nalioth> aha
[22:10] <LjL> (at least, evsa=crysis for all i know)
[22:28] <PriceChild> Seveas, could you give Jack_Sparrow access to the bantracker please?
[22:36] <ikonia> PriceChild: customer for you in #ubuntuforums
[22:36] <ikonia> or jdong
[22:42] <nealmcb> Here is a new factoid for ubotu, based on the server team meeting just now:   ebox is a web-based GUI interface for administering a server. It is designed to work with Ubuntu/Debian style configuration management. See the plans for Hardy in  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EboxSpec
[22:43] <nealmcb> and the factoid for webmin can then point to !ebox
[22:43] <ikonia> ughhh another webinterface tool for running a server
[22:43] <TheSheep> they should add autoruining functionality like fedora :)
[22:45] <nealmcb> ikonia:  yeah.  but we get questions about webmin all the time, and this is the direction we've chosen.
[22:45] <ikonia> I appriciate that
[22:45] <ikonia> perhaps I'm a little tired of the hand holding all the distros's seem to do
[22:46] <ikonia> "I want to run a server, but I need a web interface as I don't know anyhting about it - this is for my friends business"
[22:46] <ikonia> I sometimes wonder if we are spoonfeeding/bum wiping too far
[22:46] <PriceChild> There's a fine line.
[22:46] <ikonia> totally
[22:47] <nealmcb> so long as we don't bite off more than we (and they) can really chew....
[22:47] <ikonia> wasn't suggesting it was wrong, just seems to be moving more and more away from actually having to do anything
[22:51] <LjL> !ebox
[22:51] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ebox - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[22:51] <LjL> !ebox is a web-based GUI interface for administering a server. It is designed to work with Ubuntu/Debian style configuration management. See the plans for Hardy at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EboxSpec
[22:51] <ubotu> I'll remember that, LjL
[22:51] <LjL> !webmin
[22:51] <ubotu> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system - Consider "ebox" instead
[22:51] <LjL> !no webmin is <reply> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system. See !ebox instead.
[22:51] <ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
[22:53] <nealmcb> LjL: you rock!   Thanks.
[22:58] <Thugacation> goofs
[22:58] <PriceChild> I'm already talking to him in pm.
[22:59] <PriceChild> suggested he come here to appeal ban etc..... ah well
[22:59] <Thugacation> hi id like to contest some b&'s
[22:59] <Seveas> Thugacation, caling us goofs is not the way to do that
[22:59] <PriceChild> bans?
[23:00] <Thugacation> ok well first off
[23:00] <PriceChild> Thugacation, I have explained to you the reason you were banned in #ubuntu-offtopic in pm. Do you want me to explain it again in public?
[23:00] <Thugacation> who in here can help me install linux
[23:00] <PriceChild> Thugacation, this is not a support channel.
[23:01] <Thugacation> you said you banned me for asking questions
[23:01] <Thugacation> there i said it publicly
[23:01] <PriceChild> No.
[23:01] <Thugacation> big weight off my shoulder
[23:02] <PriceChild> You were banned from #ubuntu for some reason. In my opinion that means that you do not deserve to join #ubuntu-offtopic, expect support and disrupt the channel with what I considered trolling.
[23:02] <PriceChild> I gave you multiple warnings.
[23:02] <PriceChild> Infact I also answered several of your questions, whilst warning you.
[23:03] <Thugacation> ok so basically
[23:03] <Thugacation> being banned from one channel automatically qualifies you to be banned from other channels for no reason
[23:03] <PriceChild> That is not what I said.
[23:03] <Thugacation> and it sways your opinion on my asking questions to be interpreted as "trolling"
[23:03] <Thugacation> wow weak system
[23:03] <PriceChild> You were banned from our support channel. That means that you should not deserve to expect support in our offtopic channel.
[23:03] <Seveas> Thugacation, if you continue with the same behaviour on other channels, I see no reason not to apply the same banning rules
[23:04] <PriceChild> I would not have acted the same way to you if you weren't already banned in #ubuntu
[23:05] <white_eagle> please change the modes in #ubuntu-offtopic!?!
[23:05] <PriceChild> white_eagle, pardon?
[23:06] <white_eagle> normal people can't talk
[23:06] <PriceChild> ask Seveas politely
[23:06] <white_eagle> just oped/voiced users
[23:06] <white_eagle> I asked him, he didn't say anything
[23:06] <white_eagle> bye
[23:07] <Thugacation> exactly my point
[23:07] <Thugacation> PriceChild>	I would not have acted the same way to you if you weren't already banned in #ubuntu
[23:07] <Thugacation> so basically me being banned for a stupid reason sways your opinion of me automatically
[23:08] <Thugacation> ans Seveas, i was banned in #ubuntu for asking how much they are getting paid to offer linux support to random people
[23:08] <Thugacation> did not know that warranted a ban
[23:09] <PriceChild> Thugacation, i have no idea why you were banned in #ubuntu. In my mind that is irrelevant.
[23:09] <Thugacation> no actually it's not irrelevant
[23:09] <Thugacation> because you just said
[23:09] <Thugacation> PriceChild>	I would not have acted the same way to you if you weren't already banned in #ubuntu
[23:09] <Thugacation> intellectual checkmate
[23:09] <PriceChild> What mattered to me was the fact that "you were banned in #ubuntu"
[23:09] <PriceChild> NOT "you were banned in #ubuntu because..."
[23:22] <PriceChild> So Thugacation, the ban in #ubuntu-offtopic will not be lifted at this time.
[23:22] <Thugacation> why not
[23:22] <Thugacation> just do it
[23:22] <Thugacation> and then lift the one in #ubuntu-offtopic
[23:22] <Thugacation> i mean the one in #ubuntu
[23:22] <Thugacation> how can i appeal a ban to the person who banned me anyway
[23:22] <Thugacation> he's obviously not going to do it
[23:23] <Thugacation> this is corrupt
[23:23] <nalioth> Thugacation: is there something else we can help you with?  you've just been appealing the ban
[23:23]  * PriceChild looks up the #ubuntu ban.
[23:25] <Thugacation> yeah i need help installing linux
[23:25] <nalioth> Thugacation: try ##linux
[23:27] <Thugacation> but specifically ubuntu
[23:28] <Crysis> I can help you Thugacation
[23:28] <nalioth> Crysis: this is not a support channel.
[23:28] <nalioth> Crysis: if you have no business here, you shouldn't idle  ;)
[23:28] <Seveas> Thugacation, well you've ruined your chances at #ubuntu support yourself, that's not our responsibility
[23:28] <Crysis> ok
[23:29] <Seveas> Crysis, that was a polite way of saying: please leave. No idlers in this channel
[23:29] <Crysis> but
[23:30] <nalioth> pressenter: is there something we can help you with?
[23:30] <Crysis> I only try to help
[23:30] <nalioth> ariel_: is there something we can help you with?
[23:30] <nalioth> J-_: is there something we can help you with?
[23:30] <Thugacation> you guys never understand
[23:31] <nalioth> Thugacation: if there is nothing else, please respect our 'no idling' policy.  the ban will expire soon enough
[23:31] <J-_> Well, I was submitting factoids a couple days ago, and it seems they're not added. Otherwise, that's it.
[23:31] <J-_> Have a good one
[23:31] <PriceChild> J-_, submit them agian, maybe we missed them
[23:32] <PriceChild> ./msg J-_ submit them agian, maybe we missed them
[23:32] <Thugacation> i know the ban will expire
[23:32] <Thugacation> pricechild tried to tell me they didnt
[23:32] <Thugacation> but i know what im talking about
[23:32] <pressenter> nalioth: No, not really, i'm an op from #ubuntu-pl, came here to discuss one matter and stayed here ever since. ;)
[23:32] <PriceChild> I said they aren't lifted automatically after 24 hours.
[23:32] <LjL> Thugacation: want to bet money that your ban won't expire in the next year?
[23:33] <Thugacation> it wont expire if you physically keep renewing it or something
[23:33] <LjL> Thugacation: "or something", yes, you have no clue at all.
[23:33] <LjL> look
[23:33]  * no0tic bets too
[23:33] <LjL> come back in a week or so
[23:33] <LjL> discuss the matter civilly
[23:34] <LjL> and your ban will conceivably be lifted
[23:34] <LjL> you have shown way too much of a troll attitude for me to consider the matter right now
[23:34] <LjL> come back when you're calmer
[23:34] <LjL> and more rational
[23:54] <LjL> Crysis, if you have questions, ask, otherwise, leave.