ryanakcastdin: hmm... not here00:01
ryanakca3rd up is "Run Command", after "Log Out..." and "Lock Session"00:02
stdinare you using KDM ?00:05
ryanakcastdin: root      5665  0.0  0.0   3264   512 ?        Ss   Jan15   0:00 /usr/bin/kdm -config /var/run/kdm/kdmrc00:10
ryanakcaii  kdm                               4:3.5.8-2ubuntu14                 X display manager for KDE00:10
stdinhmm, it's definitely there for me00:15
ryanakcahmm... another issue.00:18
ryanakcafire up konsole-kde4 in hardy... right click a link, "Open Link"... do you get this error message?00:18
ryanakcaKLauncher could not be reached via D-Bus, error when calling start_service_by_desktop_path:00:18
stdinnope, starts konqueror (KDE4) with the link open00:20
* ryanakca wonders if it's just his installation that is kaput00:20
stdinI've found that if you close your eyes, put your hands over your ears and hum loudly then most issues go away ;)00:21
ryanakcastdin: or wait, right clicking your link opened the window up... but it also gave me an error message... odd00:21
ryanakcaKDEInit could not launch '/usr/bin/kview'.00:21
ryanakcawell now00:21
wesleyryanakca that melding from d-bus did i get also00:21
* ryanakca tries again and hopes to get the "You have succesfully deleted your root partition. Congratulations!" error00:22
* ryanakca scratches his head and gets back to his essay00:23
DaSkreech__nixternal: Wake up :)02:01
red_team316If I have two files that I want to merge, say file1 with lines A, B, C, E and file2 with lines A, B, D, E, F. How to output a merged file with lines A, B, C, D, E, F? I've tried mucking around with diff but I havent figured it out or it may not do it...02:24
DaSkreech__have you tried join ?02:25
red_team316no. I will try now. thanks02:25
DaSkreech__and #kubuntu is the help chan02:25
red_team316this is a dev channel and I'm devving so I figured there would be a better solution here02:26
yuriyoh woops, was there a meeting today?02:27
DaSkreech__red_team316: you are devving for kubuntu? :)02:30
red_team316oh, no. I am working on the reconstructor rewrite02:34
DaSkreech__it's being rewritten already?02:35
DaSkreech__what happened to the first project?02:35
red_team316essentially the problem I'm trying to solve right now is to be able to combine configuration files without using kwriteconfig or gconftool02:36
DaSkreech__or whatever gobuntu uses02:37
red_team316It's in the process of being rewritten atm. Older versions are still okay but the code is pretty ugly and the new version will address that as well as add some extra features.02:38
Jucatoyuriy: I keep on missing meetings... I might have to step down soon :(02:38
Jucato(as if I had a position)02:39
yuriyJucato: busy with life?02:39
Jucatosort of.. and also forgetting :(02:40
red_team316I know theres several blueprints on launchpad for something ubuntu can use as a prog to customize distros but atm, reconstructor, uck, etc... do not fill the requirements. Plus, the rewrite is going to be aimed at any flavor of linux, not just ubuntu/debian based.02:40
red_team316revisor for fedora is similar but guess what, it only works on fedora :/02:42
Jucatored_team316: I don't think Ubuntu has something like that yet... unfortunately02:42
Jucato(even with the build system (PPA) came in a bit late...)02:43
red_team316well, i know bootstrapping is how the make ubuntu.  explain a bit more Jucato.02:43
Jucatored_team316: I don't know anything about that. I'm just saying that we have no revisor-like utility yet02:44
JucatoPPA is almost like openSUSE's Build Service (I think)02:44
ubotuWith Launchpad's Personal Package Archives (PPA), you can build and publish binary Ubuntu packages for multiple architectures simply by uploading an Ubuntu source package to Launchpad. See https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart.02:44
Jucatobut that's for building packages, not cd images02:44
red_team316ah, sounds slick though02:45
DaSkreech__Lumaya Jucato  :-)02:45
Jucatomoin DaSkreech__02:46
Jucatoare you in the US of A already?02:46
DaSkreech__Jucato: and PPS build ubuntu packages openSUse will build them for any distro02:47
DaSkreech__No Soon02:47
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about pps - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi02:48
DaSkreech__PPA :-p02:48
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
jjessei noticed the ppa gets updated more frequently are those packges considered more developmental?02:52
yuriymore frequently than what?02:54
* DaSkreech__ waves02:56
nixternalOK, I could care less what any person in the world thinks about Microsoft, but at this time, I can tell you it totally sucks ass02:56
nixternalI want to know how having virus protection doesn't do what it is supposed to02:57
DaSkreech__nixternal: So you could care either way then?02:57
nixternalWindows is the biggest joke there is hands down02:57
nixternalif it wasn't for Linux, Knoppix in this case, this guy would have lost everything on his system02:58
DaSkreech__Yeah I heard that a lot before02:58
nixternalmore than 400 trojans02:58
nixternalthese trojans filled up the C drive, leaving you totally helpless02:58
nixternalI booted up knoppix, ran the ntfs crap, mounted the drive, deleted these bogus files (150GB worth), removed everything I knew that was a virus, ran regedit on it, ran f-prot on it, and then some02:59
nixternaleven after that it still has some issues that I am trying to work through03:00
nixternalwindows is a pos, any computer that allows this type of crap to happen so easily doesn't need to be on the market03:00
DaSkreech__Would have been faster to use a kubuntu CD03:00
nixternalno way, knoppix owns in this arena03:00
DaSkreech__Nope Kubuntu is faster03:01
nixternalyou can't beat it for saving microsoft turds03:01
nixternalhave you tried the new knoppix 5.1.1?03:01
DaSkreech__ has a handy install button that wipes out all virus03:01
nixternalya for us maybe, not for people who can't use it03:01
red_team316knoppix has saved my data once. lol DaSkreech__03:14
DaSkreech__nixternal: Yeah leaving OHD @ 10:0003:16
DaSkreech__Didn't say it couldn't03:17
DaSkreech__said Kubuntu gets rid of virus faster :)03:17
coreymon77kubuntu saved all of my moms data once03:20
coreymon77took 3 days to get it, but it saved it03:20
DaSkreech__Yeah I've done some amazing things with testdisk and a live Cd03:21
coreymon77i love using free tools to get paid03:23
coreymon77and i love engrish03:24
DaSkreech__Well that is my job :)03:24
DaSkreech__I sell free stuff03:25
coreymon77DaSkreech__: i meant using kubuntu to recover data from my moms dying laptop, which contained all of her data and info for her business03:25
coreymon77which meant that when i helped, she paid me for it03:26
coreymon77and engrish is just plain funny03:26
DaSkreech__ha my mom never pays me for anything :)03:28
red_team316join may work. It outputs the similarities of the files, which I can use with a little work. Is there a way to have join output the different lines?03:33
DaSkreech__> newfile ?03:42
DaSkreech__red_team316: Oh crap03:42
DaSkreech__try paste03:42
* yuriy finds it a bit strange that subversion considers opendocument a binary file03:58
DaSkreech__It's zipped03:59
ScottKyuriy: It is03:59
yuriyScottK: it is strange or it is binary?03:59
yuriyi thought it was XML03:59
DaSkreech__yuriy: When you unzip it04:01
ScottKyuriy: It's binary04:01
yuriyDaSkreech__: oh04:02
DaSkreech__I guess imbrandon would be out of town :(04:04
DaSkreech__seele: Ha ha you get there a few minutes before me04:41
JucatoDaSkreech__: are you attending the release party in the mountains?04:59
DaSkreech__and I wish imbrandon or nixternal Were home :(05:01
JucatoDaSkreech__: I so hate you :(05:02
DaSkreech__Be free my friend05:02
Jucatonot free enough to go there :(05:04
DaSkreech__Jucato: Sorry,. You can throw a party where you are :)05:20
red_team316ConfigParser is what I need :)05:20
JucatoI will... just drink myself to a stupor..05:20
DaSkreech__Wake you up when 4.1 comes out?05:21
Jucatomore like 4.505:24
=== _czessi is now known as Czessi
nixternalapachelogger__: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=129405:45
Jucatonixternal!!!! :D05:49
Jucatobtw, we seem to have lost aseigo :(05:49
nixternal8 hours to fix a damn Windows computer05:49
nixternallost aseigo?05:49
Jucatoyeah. to suse :(05:49
nixternalhe is nothing more than a happless user anyways, what good is he :p05:50
apachelogger__nixternal: ~alpha1 IMO05:50
Jucatoheads up to yakuake lovers. there will be a last KDE 3 release of Yakuake, version 2.8.1... just don't know if Sho_ will get it out before Hardy... but it's pretty much finished05:52
apachelogger__nixternal: debian/copyright says it's LGPL,COPYING is shipping a copy of GPL though05:52
nixternaldamnit, I copied the wrong copyright again05:53
apachelogger__nixternal: please have a look at kdebase-workspace's debian/rules and use it's kde4-wrapper-creation ... result will be the same but IMO it's better if we target to use the same basic structure all over the place05:55
apachelogger__also... I think there is a kblogger icon in oxygen, so please change the .desktop creation to use oxygen instead of hicolor05:56
apachelogger__looks good otherwise... will have another look in half an hour05:56
apachelogger__gotta go to school :D05:56
nixternalwe have changed the wrapper script again?05:57
apachelogger__nixternal: yeah final05:57
apachelogger__there were some issues... for some reason it sometimes didn't build on various archs05:58
apachelogger__also for some packages the processing sequence changed, which br0ke the wrappers05:59
apachelogger__kde4-wrapper-creation is called after make install finished for both, arch and indep05:59
apachelogger__so it's pretty much unbreakable :D06:00
* apachelogger__ is kinda proud of that baby06:00
apachelogger__hum, gotta go... laters06:00
nixternalapachelogger__: just so you know, it is using the Oxygen KBlogger icon06:06
DaSkreech__nixternal: so we aren't meeting up at all then huh?06:13
nixternalTuesday would be no, what time do you get in on Monday?06:14
nixternaloh shite, I have class next Monday night...I hate this staggered semester start06:14
nixternalwhy can't they start all classes in the same week06:14
nixternaldamn man, that totally sucks06:15
nixternalI get out of class at 10pm and have to check in at the other campus by 11pm06:15
nixternalso I have to take what is normally a 1.5 hour drive, and consolidate it into an hour :)06:16
DaSkreech__Screw that skip the first class and hang with me :)06:16
nixternalI can't, it is the first night of class06:17
nixternalif it was the 2nd night then I could06:17
nixternalwhen are you flying to Cali? tomorrow?06:17
nixternaldamnit I wish I could go06:18
nixternalis Riddell there right now or does he get in tomorrow as well?06:18
nixternalanyone want to lend me a few thousand dollars by the way? I have $3300 in unpaid parking tickets since 198906:19
nixternaleverything is cool unless I get pulled over :)06:20
Jucatonixternal: are you going to Mt.View with DaSkreech__?06:23
Jucatooh wait, I should have read :(06:23
Jucatolet's mourn together then :(06:23
Jucatobut why won't you be able to go? at least you're on the same continent06:24
DaSkreech__Jucato: No I'm stopping in Chicago on the way back and nixternal won't meet with me :(06:24
nixternalthe City of Chicago is evil...they pull your passport too06:24
* DaSkreech__ sticks tongue out at nixternal06:24
nixternalI liked the old school passports, where they just looked at you funny, asked your business, and then stamped it..now everything is run by these damn computers06:25
nixternalI hate computers!06:25
DaSkreech__they hate you06:25
DaSkreech__so why can't you  ditch class one?06:25
nixternaleveryone hates me, you get used to it after a while06:25
DaSkreech__See I do get to say it :)06:26
DaSkreech__I blame nixternal !06:26
nixternaleven if I did ditch, you get in at 8:55, which puts you out of the terminal by 9:30 at the earliest, I would have to leave at about then to get to the visitor dorms at the other campus06:26
JucatoI thought that was "dangnabit"06:27
nixternalnope, it is dagnabit :)06:27
DaSkreech__well leave me the keys to your apartment and at least I'll have a bed :)06:27
nixternalthe only reason I know that, is I read a script for a Disney cartoon many years ago06:27
nixternalI don't have an apartment, I live in a small dungeon that is attached to my parent's house06:28
nixternalactually attached to their garage06:28
JucatoI thought dungeons were underground?06:28
DaSkreech__It could be attached at the bottom06:28
nixternalyou couldn't tell the difference, I don't have any windows really06:28
Jucatoer... you have Vista right?06:29
* Jucato runs06:29
nixternalyup, and I love it06:29
nixternalI am thinking about becoming a Vista developer06:29
nixternalsince all of my code is crappy and buggy, I figured it is a perfect fit06:29
DaSkreech__Yeah I know living with parents? right?06:30
nixternalI just found out today that my brother-in-law should be getting his Macbook Air very soon...his sister works for Apple and he has the connection...thinking about breaking into his house and stealing it..damn rich people anyways06:30
DaSkreech__Rich people who get free stuff06:31
nixternalthat is stupid06:31
nixternalOK, time to watch a little tv..I need a computer break.06:34
DaSkreech__Wonder who else in chicago I know :)06:35
apache|mobilenixternal: debian/docs is redundant debhelper.mk does autolookup07:24
nixternalyou sure? that must have been fixed in the past07:30
nixternalI did a booboo on that upload anyways :p07:33
sebastian^good morning folks07:38
* Riddell pops in from sunnyvale07:50
Jucatoyay! :)07:51
nixternalhiya Riddell!07:53
nixternalhow is cali?07:53
Jucatocali... hindu goddess of destruction? :D07:53
nixternalapache|mobile: new upload in route to revu, give it a few minutes07:53
Jucatonixternal: I bet it's fun over there :(07:54
nixternalthat sounds just like northern California07:54
Jucato!lol | Jucato07:54
nixternalYou have to love San Fran though, it is a beautiful city07:54
nixternalI miss the west coast07:54
nixternalmy god, 2am already07:54
Jucatotoo early...07:55
nixternalWindows just attacked me!07:56
nixternalI think I have a fat lip07:56
nixternalWall-Mart just got owned08:02
* hads wishes one retailer in his country offered Linux pre-installed08:04
nixternalRiddell: ^^ we got some love from CNet of all people :)08:09
Riddellarticles which say "commercial support is absent" are not love08:10
Riddellthey're wrong08:10
* Riddell snoozes08:10
=== aRyn_ is now known as aRyn
apache|mobilenixternal: formatting issue in debian/copyright :P08:20
apache|mobilesomehow you mixed tabs with white spaces08:20
apache|mobilenixternal: version of GPL for packaging please08:20
* apache|mobile testbuilds08:20
nixternalversion for packaging? when they update the template I will worry about that08:22
nixternalstupid emacs indent cleaner08:23
apache|mobilenixternal: licenensing in GPL ain't licensing at all unless you refer to a specific version08:29
apache|mobile2+ or something08:29
nixternalI just went through a few of the Debian repos, and none of their copyright files have a version08:29
nixternalthere is a link to the copyright file that has all of that info08:29
apache|mobilenixternal: so they are wrong, we can't force upstreams to add proper licensing information and don't apply the rules on our own work08:38
nixternalheh, the people who controll the DFLG are wrong?08:40
nixternalit has been that way since 1995 that I can remember08:41
apache|mobilenixternal: might not have gotten through yet :P08:41
apache|mobileanyway, change it08:41
apache|mobile+ http://lintian.debian.org/reports/Tcopyright-lists-upstream-authors-with-dh_make-boilerplate.html08:41
apache|mobileotherwise ok with me08:41
apache|mobilenixternal: I still think it should be 1.0~alpha108:41
nixternalbut it is alpha208:42
nixternalI downloaded alpha2, it was just blogged about, put on kde-apps, and it is even on the kblogger website as alpha 208:42
apache|mobilenixternal: ~alpha2 then ;-)08:43
apache|mobile-(~/kblogger:$)-> dpkg --compare-versions 1.0-alpha1 lt 1.0; echo $?08:43
nixternalalpha1 was what aseigo blogged about a month or so back08:43
apache|mobilenixternal: I just misread08:43
nixternalthat boilerpate page is kind of silly, there is a reason for (s)08:44
apache|mobilethere is a reason for Authors08:44
apache|mobileand Author08:44
apache|mobilenot for Author(s)08:44
apache|mobileunless one author is joining and leaving the project on regular base ;-)08:45
nixternalI guess I fixed that in my Debian packages, even though I don't remember doing it08:45
nixternalooh, all of my packages have it right in Debian...isn't that nifty08:45
nixternalOK, just fixed the copyright file s/\(s\)/s08:47
apache|mobilenixternal: advocated, go for it tiger :P08:53
nixternalgo ahead and archive that on revu08:54
nixternaluploaded to new08:54
apache|mobilenixternal: archived08:55
nixternalthank you sir08:55
apache|mobileRiddell, Hobbsee: can you please kick kblogger-kde4 from hardy queue?09:43
apache|mobilenixternal: you have to change the version to ~alpha209:43
apache|mobile1.0-alpha2 > 1.009:43
nixternalbah, I didn't even catch that09:44
apache|mobileI told you 2 times :P09:45
apache|mobiledidn't notice before advocating though09:45
nixternalyou kept saying alpha1, that's what I was catching09:45
apache|mobilenixternal: [09:43] <apache|mobile> nixternal: ~alpha2 then ;-)09:46
nixternalya, but I thought I already had it like that09:46
apache|mobileapachelogger_: ha! someone is lagging09:46
nixternalthat's what I am saying09:46
apache|mobilenixternal: ok09:46
apache|mobilestupid release tags09:46
nixternalthat's the reason I didn't see the -09:46
apache|mobileamarok will use numbas for 2 as well09:46
apache|mobiletech preview will be 1.8009:47
apache|mobileoh, right, I should package that :D09:47
nixternalthat's the way it should be09:47
apache|mobileyes, mom?09:47
Tm_TI love you09:47
* apache|mobile always hoped Tm_T would say that least once in her life09:48
apache|mobilenp: Sexe, Drogue et Cholestérol - Je suis un Geek09:49
* nixternal beds09:50
apache|mobilenini nixternal09:52
_StefanS_hey there09:55
Hobbseeapache|mobile: which queue?09:56
apache|mobileHobbsee: new09:56
_StefanS_Riddell: hey you.. did you commit that patch I made for k3b and videodvd:/ kioslave? I cant see it on my hardy machine..09:56
Hobbseeoh, meh, it's already been done09:57
apache|mobileHobbsee: thanks anyway :)09:58
nixternalapache|mobile: ya, fixed and uploading already :p10:02
nixternalI was about to go to sleep but pitti hit me up10:02
nixternalapache|mobile: fixed and uploaded, now can I go to sleep? :)10:11
nixternal04:11! yay!10:11
nixternalk'nite for real this time10:11
Tm_Tnixternal: dont leave meeeeee10:12
apache|mobileTm_T: Oo10:13
apache|mobileyou're now with nixternal?10:13
Tm_Tapache|mobile: no, but he is my nurse10:14
=== techno_freak is now known as parthan
smarterapachelogger_: I fixed the oxygen-cursor-theme package12:11
* apachelogger_ is listening to Rastardennes by Boules de Feu on Têtes à Couacs [Amarok]12:12
smarterfrench music? ;)12:12
Nightroseapachelogger_: good stuff - downloading the album now - jamendo ftw ;-)12:13
Nightrosethx for the tip12:13
apachelogger_<- knows all tha good music12:14
apachelogger_Nightrose: you should checkout Boules de Feu, only wind instruments12:14
Nightrosewill do12:14
apachelogger_if you like that kind of sound Boules de Feu totally rock12:14
Nightroseapachelogger_: one needs to get used to it - but nice12:16
apachelogger_Nightrose: song 2 and 10 are quite good12:16
apachelogger_smarter: Priority: optional plz12:19
apachelogger_smarter: I think you can kill ${shlibs:Depends} in the Depends:12:20
smarterapachelogger_: k.12:20
apachelogger_will not catch anything at all12:20
apachelogger_smarter: looks good otherwise, will testbuild as soon as kdeedu finished12:21
* apachelogger_ also notes that ruphy might be in CA for the kde4 release party12:21
apachelogger_oh how I would love to be there as well :S12:21
* Nightrose too *sob*12:22
apachelogger_amarok2 release party will kick ass12:22
smarterapachelogger_: uploaded12:23
* apachelogger_ is one heck of a party organizer :P12:23
smarterjamendo player doesn't work under konqueror :/12:23
apachelogger_all will be better with webkit12:23
* smarter is going to apt-get install webkitkde12:24
smarterwebkitkde depends on kdebase-runtime-bin which doesn't exist anymore :/12:26
smarternew package is kdebase-runtime-bin-kde412:26
apachelogger_it wouldn't do any good12:26
apachelogger_I think its still not finished12:27
apachelogger_only basic rendering stuff12:27
smarterit was just to test12:27
smarterbut the package should be updated or removed12:27
smarterit's in gutsy-backports/universe12:28
apachelogger_Riddell: ^12:28
smarterhardy has a new version12:28
smarterTime to go to school12:29
Nightroseapachelogger_: see http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146882 as a solution to bug 182349 - maybe that can be backported12:31
ubotuLaunchpad bug 182349 in kdenetwork-kde4 "Kopete-kde4 has an issue with message handling under behavioural settings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18234912:31
ubotuKDE bug 146882 in general ""Message handling" unset when setting it to "Open messages instantly" and reopening the configuration dialog" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]12:31
apachelogger_Nightrose: please comment on the ubuntu bug with that ... how urgent is a fix?12:33
* apachelogger_ just thinks about peoples bandwith, one kde source package per day is enough to download ;-)12:34
Nightrosenot really urgent but would be nice12:34
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
Nightroseyea just include it in the next fix12:34
Nightroseas it works for now12:34
Nightroseyou just don´t get any message notification at all when you choose "open messages instantly"12:34
Nightroseat least I don´t12:34
Nightroseheya \sh :)12:37
apachelogger_ahoy \sh12:45
apachelogger_Nightrose: are ye b0red? ;-)12:45
Nightroseapachelogger_: not really why?12:45
apachelogger_bug 18246612:45
ubotuLaunchpad bug 182466 in kdenetwork-kde4 "kopete-kde4 doesn't override contact's font settings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18246612:46
Nightroseapachelogger_: want me to verify? or search for a fix?12:47
apachelogger_Nightrose: both ;-)12:47
apachelogger_latter is also ok with me12:47
Nightrosehehe ok I will dry my hair and then see what I find12:47
apachelogger_but might be a waste of time in case it's just pebkec12:47
apachelogger_Nightrose: you're my most favorite rose :P12:47
Nightrose;-) thx honey12:48
iRonapachelogger_: it overrides.. but only after you hide/show contacts..12:49
* apachelogger_ tests oxygen-cursor-theme12:50
NightroseiRon: what do you mean by hide/show contacts?12:57
iRonNightrose: panel button Show hidden users12:58
iRonNightrose: er.. Show offline users12:59
Nightrosehmm doesn´t change anything for me here12:59
Nightroseand we are talking about the chatwindow12:59
Nightrosenot the contact list12:59
iRonoh.. i thought it was about contact list13:00
Nightrosenah chat window if I get the bug report right13:00
Nightroseapachelogger_: so I can reproduce13:00
Nightrosewill look for a fix13:00
* apachelogger_ goes hunting for some coffee meanwhile13:05
Nightroseapachelogger_: I can neither find a bugreport at kde about it nor a fix in svn :(13:17
Nightrosemaybe I am blind...13:17
apachelogger_maybe no-one noticed yet ;-)13:17
Nightrosehehe yea13:17
freeflyingis there something wrong with keyboard in kubuntu?13:20
jpatrickfreeflying: you're not using a chinese setting?13:20
freeflyingjpatrick: no. zh_CN.UTF-8 locale13:22
jpatrickmy keyboard's always worked fine :o)13:22
freeflyingjpatrick: the keyboard behavior is really strange13:22
jpatrickand I imagine there'd by a critical bug on LP if it didn't13:22
iRonfreeflying: `alt' key works like `enter', and `cursor up' like `print screen' ? ;-)13:26
iRoni got this problem after xorg 7.3 installation13:28
iRonbut i solved it with removing xserver-xorg-input-evdev13:29
freeflyingiRon: not these, I can repeat input one key, it need about 3-4s, then can I input the same character, and also he del hebavior13:32
iRonfreeflying: try `$ xprop -root | grep XKB'13:33
iRonfreeflying: what you see ?13:33
freeflying_XKB_RULES_NAMES(STRING) = "xorg", "pc105", "us", "", "13:33
freeflyinganything wrong?13:34
freeflyingit working fine in xfce4 now13:34
iRonfreeflying: oh..13:34
iRonthen don't know why13:34
jpatrickapachelogger: is the next KDE 4 backport (gutsy-backports) still planned?13:47
apacheloggerjpatrick: we didn't set a date, but it's planned13:51
apacheloggerfirst the icon fixes have to be finished13:51
jpatrickapachelogger: good, I've got an archive admin that will do the *qca2* stuff soon13:51
apacheloggervery  good13:52
jpatrickand hopefull projectm13:52
wesleywill kde4.01 come out before april ?14:01
jpatrickwesley: end of year14:01
LongPointyStickjpatrick: 4.0.1?14:02
jpatrickops, missed the 014:02
wesleywow a whole year before kde4 4.1 comes out ?14:02
\shcan someone check on kdepim-kde4 (Ubuntu) for libungif4g transition? bug #17425214:03
ubotuLaunchpad bug 174252 in libungif4 "transition to libgif" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17425214:03
jpatrickwesley: not if you, yes *YOU* join the dev team ;)14:03
wesleyi am no good for dev team i can only test and ruin my own pc14:03
jpatrick\sh: I thought kdepim-kde4 wasn't completed14:04
stdin\sh: afaik, only kdelibs5 needs any gif support and it uses libgif14:04
\shstdin, well, apt-cache rdepends libungif4g gives me this package still14:05
\shI think it's a source only upload to catch up with the correct deps....14:05
\shthe same applies to aterm e.g. because it took the old libungif4g still...14:05
wesleyjpatrick but kubuntu will release a clean kde4 distro right ?14:06
stdin\sh: that's probably because 4:3.97.0-0ubuntu2 was before we converted kde4libs to libgif14:06
stdin\sh: kdepim-kde4 wasn't released with 4.0.014:07
jpatrickwesley: no, we'll have some kde3 apps (amarok, kontact, ...)14:07
wesleydo you not port those so they integrate with kde4?14:07
nosrednaekimwesley: they are in the process of being ported, but not by us14:08
\shstdin, well, it needs a rebuild because it inherits  kdelibs5 from kdepimlibs5-dev14:08
wesleyah okay but they are also dev amarok 2 ?14:08
nosrednaekimwesley: thats what I mean..14:08
wesleyi heard they wanted to port the kde3 version from amarok but they are also dev amarok 2 for kde414:09
nosrednaekimwesley: what do you mean "port"?14:15
wesleyyes but not amarok 214:16
wesleysvn, the subversion revision control client  how does it name in kubuntu ?14:16
Nightrosewesley: you can use amarok 1.4 in kde 4 until we relase amarok 2 - which will take a while - what do you need to port there?14:17
Nightrosewe as in the amarok team14:17
wesleyi use juk on the moment but like to test amarok 214:18
stdinwesley: you tried the package "subversion" ?14:18
wesleyi installing svn and such and reading getting started14:18
wesleysvn does not realy work by me14:32
* apachelogger loves who people just disappear14:34
Jucatomoin :(15:48
Jucatoactually "almost midnight"...15:49
jjesseman Jucato you always have to be the difficult one :)15:49
jjesseargh, had a freeze of my kde4 session, now i have grey "desktop" with no icons or nothing else on it15:52
stdin\sh: looks like kdepim-kde4 will fail to build against 4.0.0 packages anyway15:53
apacheloggerwe should kick kdepim-kde415:57
apacheloggerit's pre-4.0.0 and not supported15:57
stdinshould be easy to do for the PPA, I could get an LP admin to remove the packages15:58
* stdin files a request15:58
jpatrickhi smarter16:03
smarterapachelogger: I tried to change the rm commande in debian/rules of the oxygen-cursor-theme to from "rm -rf " to "rm -r" but debian/rules clean fails if the files were already removed16:04
apachelogger-rm -r16:04
apacheloggerthe - will make it ignore errors16:04
smarterapachelogger: okay, I thought it was a typo you made ^^"16:05
smarterdidn't know that16:05
apacheloggerI don't do typos :P16:05
apacheloggerwell, only by intention ;-)16:05
smarterapachelogger: fixes uploaded in review ;)16:06
* apachelogger heads over to the nu revu upload16:08
=== pbm is now known as pbm_
apacheloggersmarter: package is ok, but ruphy seems to be lost again.... so I'll not advocate until he gave the ok for publishing16:17
jpatrickJucato: seems you were right about rt@ubuntu.com16:17
smarterapachelogger: ok16:18
smarteranything else to package? ;)16:18
apacheloggerdon't think so16:18
jpatricksmarter: try kplayer16:19
=== rdieter is now known as rdieter_afk
smarterjpatrick: I'll try, even if I think that smplayer or dragon player are better ;)16:20
jpatrickyeah, dragon player rocks16:21
apacheloggerwe have to make that default :P16:23
apacheloggerinfluence KDE, because currently it's in kderreview16:23
smarterkplayer/qt3 is not even packaged in ubuntu and debian16:23
smarterit's in debian-multimedia16:23
smarteris there any legal issue with it?16:23
ScottKSince it's in debian-multi-media and not debian, probably.16:26
Jucatojpatrick: um.. please refresh my memory :)16:27
apacheloggerstdin: we should unify package naming, currently we have extragear-plasma and plasma-playground16:28
smarteroh I've found the problem16:31
smarterkplayer is gplv316:31
smarterqt is gplv2 only16:31
ScottKThat'll do it.16:32
smarterthat's a problem if kplayer is going to be the default kde4 video player16:32
jpatrickJucato: kubuntu-es mailing list thing16:33
stdinapachelogger: Riddell told me that plasma-playground was replaced by extragear-plasma, so maybe a conflicts/replaces in extragear-plasma is in order?16:58
apacheloggerstdin: well backport to the ppa then :P16:58
apacheloggerstdin: how can playground be replaced by extragear16:59
apacheloggervery strange16:59
stdinapachelogger: playground is an old package apparently16:59
apacheloggeryeah it is16:59
apacheloggerbut extragear ain't having the same content17:00
stdinsome stuff from playground was obviously moved to extragear, like battery, digital-clock, notes...17:01
apacheloggerIMO playground shouldn't have been added to the archive in the first place17:01
apacheloggerjust toss it or something17:02
nixternalplayground has some new engines and applets that aren't in extragear17:03
=== {toma} is now known as toma
stdinapachelogger: like http://www.stdin.me.uk/diffs/post-rel/extragear-plasma_4.0.0-0ubuntu2.debdiff ?17:22
smarterstdin: why does it build-dep on kdebase-workspace-dev 4:3.98.0~svn756095 and not 4.0.0?17:23
stdinsmarter: because that's what it was before, and there's no real need to change it17:24
apacheloggerstdin: change it17:26
apacheloggernow there is a need :P17:26
apacheloggerstdin: please also change the maintainer to kubuntu developers17:26
stdinapachelogger: what's the need? 4:4.0.0 will be installed?17:27
apacheloggerstdin: a motu saying so creates a need for something ;-)17:27
jpatrickapachelogger: New: libvisual-projectm 1.0-1~gutsy1 (source)17:28
apacheloggerjpatrick: just saw it17:29
* apachelogger goes over to #amarok for a karma wave17:29
jpatrickoooh, and qca2-plugin-ossl 0.1~20070904-3~gutsy1 and qca2 2.0.0-3~gutsy117:29
smarterjpatrick: does that means ssl jabber support in kopete?17:30
jpatricksmarter: yes!17:30
jpatrickapachelogger: any more you need, poke me ;)17:31
stdinapachelogger: better now?17:31
smarterstrange, kde4 apps seem to use kdewallet from kde317:31
apacheloggerjpatrick: hehe, thanks :)17:31
jpatricksmarter: not here...17:32
apacheloggersmarter: with kdewallet4 installed?17:32
smarterapachelogger: oh, it was not installed17:33
smarterit should be a depency of kde4-core17:33
smarterpackage name is kwalletmanager-kde417:33
apacheloggersmarter: tell stdin or create a bug report17:34
* apachelogger is currently working on kdegames17:34
stdinsmarter: it's not kwalletmanager isn't a dependency of "kde-core", why should it be of "kde4-core"?17:35
smarterstdin? ;)17:35
smarterwe may need to create another meta-package17:35
stdinyeah, a kubuntu specific one17:36
* apachelogger has a started work lying around somewhere17:36
apacheloggerif I didn't delete it17:36
apacheloggerI ran out of diskspace earlier today ;-)17:36
apacheloggertoo much kde4 compilations17:36
smarterjpatrick: jabber account with gtalk doesn't work with kopete here :/17:37
smarterwhen I click on connect nothing happens17:37
apacheloggeryou have to configure it properly17:38
smarterI use the same settings I used with kopete317:38
jpatricksmarter: override server: talk.google.com17:38
apacheloggersmarter: http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=Google+Talk+support17:38
smarterI already do that17:38
apacheloggerdouble check :P17:38
jpatricksmarter: make sure libqca2-plugin-ossl is installed from k-m-4 from ppa17:39
apacheloggerjpatrick: it should be a dep of network17:39
apacheloggerconsidering stdin backported network to the ppa17:39
jpatrickapachelogger: aha! I did not know that17:39
smarterit is installed17:39
smarterah it's an older version17:39
* apachelogger officially hates kbounce and doesn't try to fix the icon installation17:40
jpatricksmarter: try restarting kopete17:40
smarterjpatrick: nothing happens, except that kwallet poped up17:41
=== toma is now known as toma_
* jpatrick kicks kopete into action17:42
Artemis_FowlWon't Konversation be ported to KDE4?17:43
jpatricksmarter: check all options in Edit Account -> Connection17:44
smarterArtemis_Fowl: they're working on Konversation 1.1 for KDE3, then they'll start to work on a kde4 port17:44
smarterjpatrick: everything is checked17:45
jpatrickArtemis_Fowl: I believe Sho_ has started work on it, now that he's done with yakuake-kde417:45
jpatricksmarter: weird then17:45
smarterat least that's what they tell me in #konversation17:45
nixternalirssi ftw! works with everything :p17:45
nixternalI have been updating a new Windows XP install for 2 hours already, when do the updates stop17:46
jpatrickyeah and can be used with ssh17:46
smartersome guys are working on another qt4 irc client(similar to irssi) quassel17:46
nixternaljpatrick: and screen :)17:46
jpatricknixternal: :)17:46
nixternalI heard that is going to be good17:46
smarteraseigo likes it ;)17:46
nixternalI would like to see it, but I can't find their SVN at all17:46
nixternalI don't like when people hide their code honestly17:47
smarternixternal: it's not public atm17:47
Nightrosenixternal: it is not jet public17:47
Nightrosenixternal: I will tell you when it is17:47
Jucatopackagers assemble: Yakuake 2.8.1 http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=2915317:47
Jucatoas well as 2.9-beta1 (for KDE 4)17:47
Artemis_Fowljpatrick: when will yakuake-kde4 be available (packaged)?17:47
jjessenixternal: wow 2 hours?  i rebuilt an xp box complete w/ updates from sp1 to fully patched xp2 w/ office 2007 fully patched in under 3 hours17:47
nixternalI probably won't use it, but since you can work it similar to using irssi/ssh/screen, I will recommend it for those who don't like the cli for sure17:47
yuriynixternal: hope you installed from a cd with the service packs. the service packs themselves take about 2 hours17:48
nixternaljjesse: I installed Office 2007 as well17:48
JucatoArtemis_Fowl: that was just released (take note, still beta :P)17:48
jpatrickArtemis_Fowl: soon17:48
jjessenixternal: yeah i built an xp vm yesterday from scratch w/ XP Pro, 2007 Office, 2007 Visio and 2007 Project in about 3 hours17:48
nixternalthis is why Windows pisses me off...yesterday when I first got this machine to work on, I plugged it into the network and booted it up...my ip is now blacklisted17:48
smarterare we going to package yakuake beta?17:49
jjessecompetly patched an on my network17:49
Artemis_FowlDamn, too much work to be done....17:49
nixternalI can't comment on blogs and email is being bounced back17:49
jjessewow that stinks17:49
jjessewas it a fresh install when you turned it on or did i have crap on it before then?17:49
nixternalya, I filed the stuff to get the IP taken off all 100 lists it is on17:49
nixternalit had crap on it17:49
jpatricksmarter, Jucato: do you think sho would mind with a beta package?17:49
nixternalfrom 4pm until 4am, I was working on this computer17:50
* jpatrick asks17:50
nixternalcd keys blow ass...you can't back them up from the registry at all17:50
Jucato[01:46] <Jucato> so 2.9-beta1 is ok to be packaged?17:50
Jucato[01:46] <Sho_> yes17:50
Jucato[01:46] <Sho_> but please also tell them about 2.8.117:50
stdinJucato: when was it released? wasn't yesterday17:50
Jucatojpatrick: ^^^^17:50
=== wesley_ is now known as kurosaki_ichigo
Jucatostdin: um... 2 minutes ago17:50
stdinJucato: well then :p17:50
jpatrickJucato: damn17:50
* jpatrick does the beta17:50
Artemis_Fowljpatrick: nice...17:50
stdin I was going to package it yesterday, I already have the svn one packaged17:50
nixternalJucato: there is a yakuake 2.8.1? if so I need to update it in buntu, debian, and foresight asap then17:51
Jucatonixternal: yep :D17:51
Jucatoit's the end of yakuake on kde317:51
* nixternal gets 2.8.1 and commences to updating yakuake on kde317:51
jpatrickstdin: can you dump the diff.gz somewhere? :)17:52
nixternalthe kde4 beta package is also available on kde-apps17:53
stdinjpatrick: http://www.stdin.me.uk/yakuake-kde4_2.8.1~svn762219-0ubuntu1.diff.gz17:53
jpatricknixternal: looks like I'm on it :)17:54
stdinjpatrick: that's KDE4 version, in case the version number in that diff is confusing ;)18:01
Riddellhello from google18:01
ScottKHello Riddell.18:02
jjessehello from michigan18:02
smarterjpatrick: gtalk support in kopete works for you?18:03
Nightrosehey Riddell :) how is it in MV?18:03
RiddellNightrose: nothing much happening yet18:04
apachelogger_Riddell: just drinking, he? ;-)18:07
apachelogger_stdin: did you test it?18:07
stdinapachelogger_: I was running the svn version for a while yeah18:07
* stdin needs to login to his kde4 session soon18:08
apachelogger_stdin: I guess it's in a usable state then? ;-)18:08
stdinapachelogger_: oh yeah, it was my main terminal emulator in kde4 (as the kde3 version is in my kde3 session)18:08
apachelogger_stdin: please explain what kubuntu_01_clean_desktop_file.patch does in the changelog18:10
apachelogger_and upload it to revu :P18:10
jpatricksmarter: yes18:10
stdinapachelogger_: it was just copied from the kde3 version, but i will18:11
apachelogger_stdin: remove debian/lintian18:12
nixternalooh I am hungry18:12
nixternalyakuake-kde4 too :)18:12
* apachelogger_ throws an apple at nixternal18:12
nixternalif it hasn't been done already18:12
stdinapachelogger_: I just wanted lintian to shut up about image-file-in-usr-lib18:12
nixternalDebian update complete, Kubuntu update complete, Foresight update complete18:12
nixternaltime for some upload foo18:12
apachelogger_stdin: never override lintian errors unless it makes unbelivable much sense18:14
apachelogger_like when lintian is just wrong or something18:14
apachelogger_which is not the case18:14
stdinit not wrong, just annoying :p18:15
apachelogger_doesn't matter :P18:15
apachelogger_stdin: why do you ship the xpms?18:16
* apachelogger_ thinks that doesn't make much sense without a debian menu file18:16
stdinapachelogger_: just from the old package, I removed the menu file (as a kde4 package shouldn't really have one) but just didn't remove the pixmaps18:16
apachelogger_stdin: why shouldn't a kde4 package have a menu file?18:17
apachelogger_the paths for the xpms are wrong as well I guess18:17
stdinapachelogger_: do you want the menu entry to go in /usr/share/menu/ ?18:17
stdinno other kde4 package I see goes there18:18
apachelogger_stdin: becaue somehow most have no debian menu and those who have like kdegames don't install it18:18
jpatrickstdin: could you upload the .orig* and .dsc?18:20
apachelogger_stdin: well, my opionion is: you don't have to include a debian menu and most probably I wouldn't even notice, but when you include it, do it properly ;-)18:20
apachelogger_jpatrick: revu18:20
=== toma_ is now known as toma
* apachelogger_ feels kinda lost today18:21
jpatrickapachelogger_: no matches for "yakuake"18:21
apachelogger_jpatrick: so stdin didn't upload yet :)18:21
ScottKWe don't support Debian Menu in Ubuntu, so it'd not needed.18:21
apachelogger_ScottK: we use them in fluxbox and stuff, don't we?18:22
apachelogger_stdin: btw, are you going to use the version from kde-apps?18:23
apachelogger_or is there a special reason you got an svn snapshot?18:23
ScottKNot sure, but we don't do the Debian Menu check in our Lintian18:23
stdinapachelogger_: just got the source from there18:23
apachelogger_ScottK: yeah, non-fdo compatible menus are really the only reason for a debian menu file18:24
apachelogger_and some people feel better when they know also non-supported desktop users get the app in their menu :)18:25
ScottKIt doesn't hurt to have it, but I certainly wouldn't block uploading a package due to it's lack.18:26
stdindang, just uploaded and forgot to mention "Renamed source package to yakuake-kde4". oh well :p18:26
jpatrickstdin: "You're fired!"18:27
apachelogger_ScottK: hehe, yeah, as saied I probably wouldn't even notice18:27
stdinjpatrick: you can't fire me, I QUIT!18:27
apachelogger_stdin: you're re-employed18:27
stdinI want a pay rise though :)18:28
jpatrickstdin: ahh, Riddell used to say that to me a lot when I was first starting out18:28
apachelogger_jpatrick: good ol' times, he? :P18:29
ScottKstdin: You can have it doubled.18:29
* apachelogger_ notes that jpatrick never saied that to apachelogger :(18:29
nixternalOK, where is the KDE 4 yakuake? hurry!!!! Yakuake 2.8.1 updated and uploaded18:29
apachelogger_stdin: don't listen to him, he just wants you to do official backports18:29
stdinnixternal: waiting for revu to move it out of incoming18:29
apachelogger_stdin: you will get more than enough once you're a motu thingy ....18:30
apachelogger_well, not more than enough when you spend as much money as jpatrick does :S18:30
stdinheh :)18:30
jpatrickapachelogger_: dosh? what dosh?18:30
* apachelogger_ notes that jpatrick is spending a lot of alcohol on money18:31
apachelogger_that really why it sometimes says strange things18:31
apachelogger_like, really strange18:31
apachelogger_actually, all the time, really ;-)18:31
* apachelogger_ should get jpatrick some cookies18:32
jpatrickapachelogger_: ich glaub das du dem anderem Wege meinst..18:33
* stdin wonders why yakuake-kde4 shows under "Updated packages" and not "New packages"18:34
apachelogger_stdin: does it?18:34
* apachelogger_ didn't notice18:34
apachelogger_stdin: that patch looks strange18:34
stdinapachelogger_: in what way strange?18:35
apachelogger_it patches itself18:35
* stdin fixes18:36
stdinanything else while I'm at it?18:37
apachelogger_stdin: mind if I complain about too many newlines? ;-)18:37
stdinyou can complain all you want ;)18:38
apachelogger_hooray :P18:38
apachelogger_stdin: kill rules:2918:38
apachelogger_and copyright:11 and 3118:39
apachelogger_stdin: and remove the tabs from copyright:718:39
apachelogger_stdin: also a couple of trailing white spaces in the binary description18:40
apachelogger_otherwise it looks fine18:40
* apachelogger_ testbuilds18:40
stdintook me a while to figure out how to *force* it not to use rpath18:41
nixternalis that necessary?18:42
nixternalI removed this from the upstream kde.mk to prevent just this from happening18:42
nixternalif it is necessary, then we need to add it to kde.mk and not just for yakuake18:42
=== wesley_ is now known as kurosaki_ichigo
apachelogger_...also thiago was making his point on rpath pretty clear the other day18:42
nixternalbut having it removed, all those options are default18:42
apachelogger_rpath is good and loveing18:43
smartercan anyone reproduce this? In KDE3, put an audio cd in your drive, launch konqueror audiocd:/ and try to launch any file with amarok18:43
apachelogger_and all statments he read which call it anything else are technically wrong he saied18:43
nixternalI stripped RPATH from kde.mk, which makes all of those options default though18:43
smarterit can't play the file18:43
apachelogger_smarter: xine doesn't support kio slaves18:43
blueyedsmarter: this is already supported as a bug on LP18:44
stdinnixternal: I had to add all those to get it not to link with rpath, took me a good while to get it right18:44
smarterblueyed: I'll try to find the bug18:45
smartersmplayer handles the kio slave correctly18:45
nixternalor any later version accepted by the membership of KDE e.V. (or its successor appro- ved by the membership of KDE e.V.), which shall act as a proxy defined in Section 14 of version 3 of the license.18:45
nixternalthat's a new one18:45
nixternalstdin: none of the other packages do that though, is it just a yakuake thing?18:45
stdinI think that's part of the new KDE licensing policy Riddell was blogging about18:45
blueyedsmarter: bug 12117718:46
ubotuLaunchpad bug 121177 in kdemultimedia "Cannot play audio CD in amarok (related to audiocd:/)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12117718:46
apachelogger_nixternal: dragonplayer is using that as well18:46
nixternalthat doesn't sound "free" to me18:46
apachelogger_it is18:46
stdinnixternal: it may well be, I was surprised to see it used rpath because no other packages need anything to tell them to not18:46
nixternalhas it been DFSG'ized?18:46
nixternalwhat that means is if I use it, and GPLv4 comes out, I can't upgrade my license to GPLv4 unless KDE e.V. says so18:47
stdinit just says GPL2, 3 or later (if KDE e.V. agree to it)18:47
apachelogger_nixternal: this is like you say gpl2 only18:47
stdinyou'll always have to give KDE apps a license compatible with the license of the libs18:47
apachelogger_here it says gpl2 and gpl3 and possible others18:47
nixternalthat is true, just thought about that on my way to the coffee maker :p18:47
nixternalHomepage: http://extragear.kde.org/apps/yakuake18:50
nixternalstdin: ^^ http://yakuake.kde.org18:50
apachelogger_nixternal: there ain't anything :P18:50
stdinnixternal: the one points to the other ;)18:50
nixternaloh it does18:51
apachelogger_nixternal is having a point there18:51
apachelogger_yakuake.kde.org is the nu address18:51
apachelogger_will be used as soon as the nu website is finished18:51
apachelogger_...from what I know18:51
nixternalya, all of kde is going that route eventually18:51
stdin[18:06] * Sho_ hopes to find the time to finish the new website later today18:51
apachelogger_nixternal: well, only if they need something more than the extragear space ;-)18:52
apachelogger_extragear.kde is having one advantage though: one gets free updates from me every half year or something :P18:53
stdinheh, I can't login to revu with "tsimpson@ubuntu.com"18:55
apachelogger_stdin: still trailing white spaces in description :P18:55
apachelogger_stdin: do you use the correct password?18:55
stdinapachelogger_: it tells me to use this to get my pass "gpg -d <<EOT ; echo"18:55
apachelogger_yeah :P18:55
apachelogger_stdin: are you going to change the homepage tag in control?18:56
stdinapachelogger_: that was said just after this last upload, so if you want me to I can wait another 5 mins, then re-upload and it'll show in 15 mins18:56
apachelogger_stdin: I for one, want :P18:57
apachelogger_I like nu websites18:57
blueyedstdin: have you fixed the linda errors?18:58
stdinblueyed: can't, images get put in /usr/lib/kde4 for kde4 apps, and lintian will complain18:58
apachelogger_hold on18:59
* stdin holds on18:59
apachelogger_stdin: didn't that thing have a manpage?18:59
stdinapachelogger_: it did, it's the same as the kde3 one, but how does one put that manpage into /usr/lib/kde4  or have it not overwrite yakuake.1.gz ?19:00
apachelogger_good point19:01
apachelogger_move along :P19:01
apachelogger_stdin: technically it could be yakuake-kde4 for now19:02
stdinbut no other kde4 apps have that, so I'm being a sheep and not making one either :p19:02
apachelogger_I leave this up to you, since the other kde4 packages have no manpages either ;-)19:02
apachelogger_stdin: you probably just need to reuse the old one :P19:02
apachelogger_anyway, with fixed homepage you get my advocate19:03
stdinwell both "yakuake --help" and "yakuake-kde4 --help" show the same info19:03
stdinapachelogger_: should be up now19:15
apachelogger_jpatrick: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=yakuake-kde419:18
jpatrickapachelogger_, stdin: +119:23
nixternalpatch the manpages to change their names :)19:23
nixternalI am patching all packages so that when you do 'man foo' it links to 'nixternal_is_the_man' :p19:23
jjessei thought the patch was to show "nixternal loves vista"19:24
nixternalI am now throwing in root kits19:24
nixternalin all of my packages19:24
nixternalmy little way of saying "hello there, I have your computer, is now safe" :p19:24
* nixternal does love Vista!19:24
apachelogger_nixternal: how nice of you19:25
nixternalmy question is this, how come XP Home and XP Pro didn't have the same themes as XP Media Center? the Media Center themes are much nicer19:25
* apachelogger_ loves when his computer is safe19:25
* apachelogger_ goes hacking19:26
apachelogger_without any skills in Qt :D19:26
nixternalthe one good thing I like about average windows users, you can be lazy and wipe out their entire system and then tell them "there was nothing you can do, the viruses killed it."  they fall for that stuff19:26
smarterthe only good xp theme is: http://oddbasket.deviantart.com/art/Royale-Remixed-4429481819:27
jjessewow that seems mean :)19:27
nixternalvoid setText(const QString &text, QObject *parent=0);19:27
nixternalthat is all you need to know, now go hacking :p19:27
nixternalsmarter: ya, that is the Media Center theme19:28
nixternalalthough the top bar in a window is quite tall, other than that it is a nice and clean theme19:28
apachelogger_nixternal: thanks, mom's nurse!19:29
* apachelogger_ now feels like one of the ol' pros19:29
apachelogger_world domination, I'm coming!19:29
apachelogger_now I went totally wocka19:34
* Nightrose is afraid19:34
Nightrosewhat did you do apachelogger_?19:34
apachelogger_stdin: instead of patching kdelibs3 to use /usr/share/applications-kde3 we can just use the old $KDEDIR/share/applnk19:34
stdincould do yeah19:36
apachelogger_that idea is so wicked minded, I really must be a genius!19:36
* jpatrick is afraid with Nightrose 19:36
apachelogger_I should write that down19:36
apachelogger_currently the -kde4 wrapper scripts make my head bleed because they are causing like 3000 issues19:37
Nightrosejpatrick: you always have to be afraid when apachelogger_ goes wocka - you never know if it will bring world domination or destruction ;-)19:37
apachelogger_so we have to differ between kde3 and kde4 desktop files19:37
jpatrickNightrose: or both19:37
Nightrosehehe right19:38
apachelogger_hence I propose a 3 dir solution19:38
apachelogger_xdg default19:38
apachelogger_kde4 default in /usr/lib/kde419:38
nixternalwho is working on a katapult kde4 port? i am not to keen on this krunner thing19:38
apachelogger_and one for kde4 used in kde319:38
nixternalhow many times do I have to hit enter for it to take off dangit19:38
apachelogger_the latter shouldn't be scanned by kde419:38
apachelogger_and I think kde4 doesn't support the applnk crap anymore19:38
Nightrosenixternal: I didn´t really get used to it yet either :/19:38
apachelogger_so instead of patching kdelibs to use /usr/share/applications-kde4 or something19:38
apachelogger_we can just throw all the stuff in applnk19:39
apachelogger_so much for the theory19:39
* apachelogger_ goes testing19:39
jpatricknixternal: I was, but I've defered it to learn more c++19:39
Riddellnixternal: /win 30219:40
nixternal/win 302? you need to quit if you have that many irssi windows Riddell :)19:40
apachelogger_nixternal: actually I think it would be a good idea to implement katapult with plasma19:41
apachelogger_like krunner, maybe even share some code19:41
jpatrickhow can you live with 302 wins?19:41
nixternalhe has to be drunk19:41
nixternalprobably on his 302nd irn bru, that's why :p19:41
apachelogger_so I better don't ask him anything :P19:41
jpatrickhow can you live with 302 wins?719:42
apachelogger_apparently kde4 still supports applnk19:42
apachelogger_what a shame19:42
apachelogger_question is does it do that for /usr/ and $KDEPATH19:43
apachelogger_or only the latter19:43
apachelogger_was just kickoff being stupid19:46
* apachelogger_ is feeling like dr. frankenstein19:46
apachelogger_Nightrose: get the good wine out19:48
mhbmornfall: dobrej .o)19:53
apachelogger_Nightrose: ich brauche jetzt alk19:54
mornfallyuriy: I have pushed a bunch of changes to the public repo...19:54
apachelogger_Nightrose: ganz viel sogar19:54
Nightroseapachelogger_: Oo19:54
* Nightrose beams alk to apachelogger_19:54
Nightrosea captain?19:55
mornfallyuriy: I have somehow managed to push them somewhere else by accident (I have thought I have pushed some of them earlier and haven't).19:55
apachelogger_Nightrose: for starters19:55
mornfallyuriy: I have not applied some of your patches (mostly the ones you didn't really like yourself).19:55
mornfallyuriy: IIRC.19:55
mornfallyuriy: I would probably suggest to you to keep an "upstream" branch separate from the one you make changes to, so you can at all times easily figure what local changes you have that are not in the "upstream" repo.19:56
mornfallyuriy: Eg. have adept-3-upstream, where you only ever pull from my public repository, and then you can run darcs pull -a --dry-run ../adept-3 to find out which patches are missing.19:58
mornfallyuriy: (In upstream, that is)19:58
mornfallyuriy: And possibly then unpull those we have agreed to reject.19:59
yuriymornfall: hi (reading, pulling)20:10
yuriymornfall: ones i didn't like myself? does that include the crash patch?20:13
apachelogger_jpatrick: pling20:14
mornfallyuriy: Not sure...20:14
jpatrickapachelogger_: plong20:14
apachelogger_jpatrick: can you please throw an advocate on yakuake :P20:14
mornfallyuriy: Is it excluded?20:14
mornfallLet me review it.20:15
apachelogger_nixternal: wanna have a final look at yakuake-kde4 as well?20:15
jpatrickapachelogger_: I did :p20:15
jpatrickhrm, need to remember passwd..20:15
mornfallyuriy: Hm, right, I didn't like that.20:15
apachelogger_jpatrick: I just don't wanna get slaped for uploading with one advocate ;-)20:16
mornfallyuriy: A better solution would be to merge the two classes. But I am still unsure about the direction you have taken wrt. the package list classes.20:16
mornfallyuriy: Or to use a direct call instead of signals/slots through a virtual callback.20:16
mornfallyuriy: But this binds the classes super-tight yet still tries to look like they are separate.20:17
jpatrickapachelogger_: done :)20:19
yuriymornfall: that's the only patch i see that you didn't include actually20:19
apachelogger_jpatrick: Danke :)20:19
mornfallyuriy: The other is:20:21
mornfallSat Jan 12 17:20:40 CET 2008  yuriy-kozlov@kubuntu.org20:21
mornfall  * Enabled details button and synced checkbox.20:21
mornfallyuriy: That could be all.20:21
yuriyoh right, but that was earlier20:21
mornfallyuriy: (The signal passing bits I didn't like, but I haven't implemented a solution myself yet).20:21
=== jpetso_ is now known as jpetso
yuriymornfall: but with the crash, i feel like that's the right approach, i'm just not sure how to implement it better20:28
nixternalpasted that to the wrong channel, but it is funny nonetheless20:28
mornfallyuriy: It is one of the possible approaches, yes (it removes the unreliable signal/slot transport -- the other (which I have suggested) is making the code robust against signal/slot ordering issues.)20:29
mornfallyuriy: It may be indeed better to eliminate the signal/slot connection. If you want to do it without interwining the classes, there comes an idea:20:30
yuriyi meant because it doesn't try to store and upkeep the same list in two different places20:30
mornfallyuriy: That duplicity is neccessary to keep any meaningful separation between the classes. If you make one depend on another, they can no longer be used separately and it makes little sense to have them separate.20:31
yuriymornfall: does it make sense to have them separate?20:31
* apachelogger_ starts crying20:32
apachelogger_Nightrose: that is sooooo wonderful20:32
apachelogger_nixternal: hold me20:32
Nightrosetell me honey20:32
mornfallyuriy: They are basically orthogonal, so I would say yes. On the other hand, through YAGNI it is overengineered. Go figure.20:32
yuriymornfall: YAGNI?20:33
mornfallyuriy: I would say, if you want to merge them, go ahead. If you don't, keep them orthogonal.20:33
mornfallyuriy: YAGNI = You Aren't Gonna Need It.20:33
apachelogger_Nightrose: I just made the changes I was talking about to kdebase-kde420:33
mornfallyuriy: An useful principle to keep in mind when deciding what to keep and what to cut.20:33
apachelogger_Nightrose: krunner works like charm without complaining about dubs reports no answer20:33
Nightroseapachelogger_: and I found a video for my presentation20:33
apachelogger_Nightrose: same thing happened for dolphin when starting for example kwrite, which locked dolphin completely20:33
* Nightrose high5s apachelogger_20:33
* apachelogger_ notes: Nightrose is doing that with quite some powa20:34
apachelogger_Nightrose: also kickoff doesn't have this stupid KDE 4 attachements anymore20:34
Nightroseyay awesome20:34
apachelogger_konqueror is konqueror and just konqueror20:34
apachelogger_soo beautiful20:35
* apachelogger_ stest kde320:35
yuriymornfall: have you pushed changes to ept?20:35
apachelogger_Nightrose: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot64.jpg20:36
mornfallyuriy: Now....20:37
mornfallMea culpa, I am so forgetful.20:37
apachelogger_stdin: are you here?20:37
* stdin checks20:38
stdinyes, I'm here :)20:38
apachelogger_stdin: storing kde4-xy.desktop in /usr/share/applnk works like a charm20:38
apachelogger_fixes all the annoying issues in KDE 420:39
apachelogger_and we don't have to introduce yet another patch to kde 320:39
stdinis there a easy/automated way to put the .desktop file in the right sub-dir?20:40
yuriymornfall: hmm the comma/dash got corrupted again. i wonder why that's happening20:42
mornfallyuriy: Your editor, I assume...20:42
mornfallIt's unicode (utf8).20:43
apachelogger_stdin: not necessary20:43
apachelogger_stdin: the dir structure is, from my understanding, only used for .kdelnk files20:43
apachelogger_for .desktop files it just scans the categories20:43
stdinthat should be easy enough then20:44
mornfallyuriy: I am off to bed for tonight... see you tomorrow or so.20:49
yuriymornfall: bye. i don't think i'll be working on this for a few days20:50
wesleyis the kde4 version of ktorrent in the package manager21:04
smarterwesley: yep21:04
smarterwesley: in the PPA21:05
smarterwesley: see here to use the PPA repository: http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.php21:05
wesleyi have the ppa enabled21:05
smarterwesley: so you should be able to install ktorrent-kde421:06
wesleywhy amarok 2 not in it?21:07
jpatrickwesley: amarok 2 is not ready21:07
wesleyi hate that that adept restart the x server21:10
apachelogger_talking about amarok221:11
jpatrickwesley: amarok 2 is not ready21:11
apachelogger_jpatrick: wanna test whether we should throw it in the repos?21:11
jpatrickapachelogger_: dump on your ppa so you can :)21:11
apachelogger_jpatrick: nah, you can get a deb :P21:12
wesleyi wanna have also a amarok 2 deb21:12
apachelogger_it's really for selected kubuntu devs to test whether it makes sense to have it available anywhere21:12
apachelogger_because really it's just gonna be a tp21:12
apachelogger_wesley: only selected kubuntu devs, sorry21:12
wesleybut if you put it in the ppa then normal user could get it but something else koffice2 says break21:13
apachelogger_wesley: that's the reason why I don't put it in the ppa21:14
smarterIIRC there's a PPA somewhere with amarok2 packages for hardy21:14
smartershouldn't be to hard to find it if you really want amarok221:14
smarterbut it's really not worth it21:14
apachelogger_smarter: god knows how old these packages are21:15
wesleyits not useable ?21:15
apachelogger_wesley: did you see any indication which makes you think it is?21:15
mhbwesley: if it were, it would be in the PPA already21:15
mhbwesley: that's the reason it's not there ... even KDE4 is considered "unusable" by some people and we offer the packages ... once it seems to work at least for a one person here, I'm sure it'll arrive in the PPAs21:16
wesleyokay that makes sense21:16
wesleyand kde4 is indeed useable its boots faster than kde321:18
mhbwesley: it is good to hear that it works for you21:19
jpatrick!wtm | wesley21:20
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about wtm - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi21:20
jpatrick!wfm | wesley21:20
ubotuwesley: Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/21:20
smarternow, that's a useful command ;)21:21
apachelogger_!info amarok221:21
ubotuPackage amarok2 does not exist in gutsy21:21
smarterbut what does wfm means?21:21
apachelogger_oh my good21:21
apachelogger_!info dragonplayer21:21
ubotuPackage dragonplayer does not exist in gutsy21:21
jpatricksmarter: works for me21:21
jpatrick!info dragonplayer hardy21:21
ubotudragonplayer: Simple KDE 4 video player. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.99~beta1-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 397 kB, installed size 860 kB21:21
apachelogger_!info bsdgames21:21
ubotubsdgames: a collection of classic textual unix games. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.17-8 (gutsy), package size 913 kB, installed size 2344 kB21:22
apachelogger_smarter: ^21:22
apachelogger_that includes an app21:22
apachelogger_called wtf21:22
smarterapachelogger_: yeah I know that one ;)21:22
apachelogger_which clarifies things like wfm :P21:22
smarterjust forgot to use it ^^21:22
smarterbut it doesn't know what bsd stands for :P21:22
apachelogger_ none knows :P21:23
jpatrickstdin: *phew* looks like I've made dotan happy at the kde4 vs kde3 bug report21:23
apachelogger_wtf is the kde4 vs kde3 bug report?21:23
mhbhas anyone heard anything from the kaffeine team?21:23
mhbor tried some early KDE4 branches for it21:23
apachelogger_the branch is b0rked21:24
jpatrickapachelogger_: bug #18278621:24
ubotuLaunchpad bug 182786 in meta-kde "KDE4 should not be standard in 8.04 LTS" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18278621:24
apachelogger_not useable in any way21:24
apachelogger_mhb: dragonplayer rocks more anyway :P21:24
mhbapachelogger_: totally untrue21:24
apachelogger_jpatrick: why do you comment on that bug anyway?21:24
mhbapachelogger_: well, it's too simple21:24
apachelogger_mhb: kaffeine is bloated21:24
jpatrickapachelogger_: shut them up21:24
apachelogger_has tons of useless features :P21:24
mhbapachelogger_: right, like DVB-T support21:24
apachelogger_jpatrick: that won't work21:24
apachelogger_just ignore21:25
mhbapachelogger_: except that's the only app that has it21:25
* apachelogger_ is confused21:25
jpatrickapachelogger_: looks like my last comment did21:25
apachelogger_and why did i open dolphin21:25
mhbapachelogger_: also, subtitle support is awesome in kaffeine21:25
smartersmplayer(qt4) is cool too21:26
apachelogger_mhb: im somewhat sure there is a standalone dvb app21:26
apachelogger_which is not bloated21:26
mhbapachelogger_: I'm not really sure Kaffeine is that much bloated21:26
apachelogger_but kickoff is :P21:27
mhbapachelogger_: well, it should be as simple as possible21:27
* apachelogger_ declares mhb the greater hypocrite ever, hence removes that title from himself21:27
smarterit is designed for users ^^21:28
claydohahh, just make kickoff taller (no scrolling), and a little narrower, and well21:28
smarterwhich means that I'm not an user21:28
claydohyou get a normal menu I guess21:28
apachelogger_claydoh: why not use the old menu then?21:28
claydohthats my point :)21:28
claydohthe wife hates  kickoff21:29
* apachelogger_ loves kickoff21:29
apachelogger_love it isn't21:29
smarteraccording to kde devs you first have to get used to it21:29
apachelogger_but, like it better than the traditional21:29
mhbapachelogger_: but nah, kaffeine is overfeatured21:29
claydohits ok for me, just crowded sometimes21:29
wesleyif theres a kde4 apps from a app then kde4 will always chose the kde4 version21:29
smarteratm, even kde3 apps open kde4 apps...21:30
apachelogger_wesley: yes21:30
mhbapachelogger_: I like simple UIs, but I also like the out-of-the-box-ness that kaffeine brings with DVB-T and with subtitles and other things21:30
apachelogger_smarter: yes21:30
apachelogger_the thing is: if you have an app installed you wanna use it21:30
apachelogger_if you don't wanna use it because it's not stable or smth21:31
apachelogger_you don't want it installed21:31
smarterI don't want to mix kde3 and kde4 apps21:31
apachelogger_...higher apachelogger logic, doesn't necessarily be logical to anyone else :P21:31
apachelogger_smarter: I so uninstall the kde3 apps :P21:31
mhbI sometimes like to have both kopetes21:31
mhbkopete 3 works, kopete 4 crashes sometimes...21:31
smarterapachelogger_: I'll do if kde4 was as fast as kde3 on my computer21:32
mhbbut I want to keep them both, because I know with each update the kopete4 is going to get better21:32
smartermhb: s/kopete/kde ;)21:32
mhbsmarter: true21:32
apachelogger_mhb: so you will have to write a wrapper for kde321:32
wesleythere where today no updates but i have trust in you guyes21:32
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
smarterI really hope that something magic happens in qt4.4 or kde4.1 and everything will be as fast as kde321:33
apachelogger_wesley: updates for what?21:33
mhbapachelogger_: actually, I have some time today ... not so much learning to do21:33
apachelogger_smarter: might very well21:33
mhbapachelogger_: so what should I write? :o)21:33
wesleysmarter kde4 is faster than kde3 exspecialy when booting up21:34
apachelogger_mhb: just copy your /usr/share/applications/kde/kopete.desktop to /usr/share/applications/kde3-kopete.desktop21:34
apachelogger_mhb: attach KDE 3 to the name and the generic name21:34
apachelogger_and change the path to statically lead to /usr/bin/kopete21:34
smarterwesley: yes it's faster to boot, but I don't boot kde often :P21:35
apachelogger_that will, unfortunately give you 3 kopete's21:35
smarteranyway, I'm off to bed21:35
mhbapachelogger_: we're not going to do that system-wide?21:35
apachelogger_but only until I made the KDE4for3 transition21:35
mhbI thought we would21:35
apachelogger_mhb: Oo21:35
apachelogger_mhb: well21:35
apachelogger_cp /usr/share/applications/kde/kopete.desktop to your $HOME/.kde4/share/applnk, and do the name and path changes21:36
* apachelogger_ is confused21:36
apachelogger_mhb: what do you want to do exactly? ;-)21:37
mhbapachelogger_: it's not a big deal for myself, really. I just thought we were going to do this for Hardy.21:37
mhbI'm fine21:37
apachelogger_I vote against it21:37
apachelogger_we would have to touch _every_ kde3 package21:37
apachelogger_to create wrappers21:37
mhbso you do not want to have KDE3 apps available in KDE4?21:37
apachelogger_mhb: they are21:37
apachelogger_but only if the kde4 replacement is not installed21:38
apachelogger_the logic of that is described above21:38
mhbsounds like a topic for a meeting21:38
mhbto me21:38
mhbhave we talked about it?21:38
apachelogger_it doesn't21:38
apachelogger_you can either have21:38
apachelogger_change _all_ kde3 packages21:38
apachelogger_or don't change _all_ kde3 packages21:39
apachelogger_it ain't worth it21:39
mhbnot sure21:39
mhbI still think it should be at least mentioned at a meeting21:39
apachelogger_well, set it on the meeting schedule plz21:40
mhbwe never have anything to talk about, this is a good thing21:40
mhbI will21:40
apachelogger_along with KDE4for3 transition21:40
apachelogger_mhb: talking is overrated anyway :P21:40
mhbah, you mean the wizard?21:40
yuriyhmm what's the problem? why would you have to change kde3 packages?21:40
wesleyi think its better if everthing intergrates so everthing gots a kde4 look21:40
apachelogger_mhb: oh, that too21:41
yuriyand i think the plan was to have some kde3 programs by default to fill in the holes21:41
yuriye.g. kdepim21:41
wesleybut those kde3 apps will be ported ?21:42
mhbsooner or later, yes21:42
apachelogger_mhb: three items: KDE3 for 4 (kde3 wrappers to be used in KDE 4, discussion about whether we really want to touch all kde3 packages to introduce a wrapper system) - KDE 4 for 3 (kde4 wrappers to be used in KDE 3, exact implimentation details like paths etc.) - KDE3 to 4 (migration wizard to let the user decied what to do with his old kde3 configs)21:43
* apachelogger_ love these names :D21:43
apachelogger_kde344 kde443 kde32421:44
jpatrickstdin: yakuake-kde4 just got put into experimental21:44
apachelogger_yummy :D21:44
wesleywhat yakuake?21:44
mhbapachelogger_: hmm, the more I think of it, the more I think you should write it down21:45
mhbapachelogger_: because the more I think of it, the more I realize how little I know about the first points21:45
apachelogger_mhb: I say that since sunday, I just don't have time ;-)21:45
apachelogger_mhb: when is the next meeting?21:45
apachelogger_jpatrick confused me with his date/day mixing21:45
mhbnext wednesday I think21:46
mhbfor us21:46
apachelogger_hold on21:46
jpatrickapachelogger_: /topic21:46
apachelogger_no way I can attent that meeting21:47
apachelogger_have a test in accounting that very day21:47
jpatrickso, brain dump on the wiki21:47
nixternalooh accounting, my favorite!21:47
apachelogger_stdin: can you attend?21:47
jpatrickjust not literally please21:47
apachelogger_nixternal: I don't like it all that much either21:48
nixternalI had 4 years of that crap, so I hate it21:48
apachelogger_jpatrick: did I ever do that?21:48
apachelogger_I mean21:48
apachelogger_beside that one time21:48
apachelogger_actually did it21:48
apachelogger_and made the amarok server explode21:48
jpatrickapachelogger_: just in case ;)21:48
apachelogger_nixternal: it's my 6th year :D21:48
mhbapachelogger_: what school do you attend?21:50
nixternal6 years of accounting? that is nuts21:50
apachelogger_business economic academy thingy21:50
apachelogger_I love when stuff is unique to austria21:51
nixternalI have 2 business degrees and never did that much accounting21:51
apachelogger_makes it tricky to explain ;-)21:51
mhbapachelogger_: is that a uni?21:51
apachelogger_mhb: nah21:51
apachelogger_it's kind of like a scondary school21:51
mhbapachelogger_: or more like the secondary edu? or something in between? I always thought the German system is somehow like ours, and we go to uni around 1921:51
apachelogger_but only that it ends with the same exam21:52
mhbAustrian may be weirder :o)21:52
apachelogger_we have like 4 different types of secondary edu21:52
apachelogger_general, business, technical and social21:52
apachelogger_after each of this you have permission to start studying21:53
apachelogger_or for the latter 3 you can as well go ahaid and work21:53
apachelogger_well, for after general 2nd edu as well, but your cances are pretty bad21:54
mhbso you're the last year? Abitur and such? Or do I still get it wrong?21:55
apachelogger_nope, totally correct :)21:55
=== rdieter is now known as rdieter_afk
mhbwell, let's get back to work21:58
claydohkde4-core ain't too shabby on my athlon 1200/512mb sdram box22:21
wesleythis is funny !girls22:27
ubotuGirls don't exist on the internet. See http://www.escapistmagazine.com/print/17/27 | http://www.xkcd.com/322/ | For more interesting reading: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/22:27
claydohok kde4 isn't too shabby until I run mythtv on it as well :(22:32
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about carnaval - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi22:32
ScottKwesley: You're off topic.22:32
wesleywas testing ubotu to see how smart he is22:32
mhbwesley: you can do that in a private communication with ubotu22:43
wesleycan i go private white him22:43
wesleybut then i onlt got the fun22:44
ubotuvista is the new operating system by the evil overlords from Redmond. For more information, see http://www.badvista.org and !windows22:44
mhbwesley: #kubuntu-offtopic is a good channel for having fun with Kubuntu22:46
mhbthis is more like a development channel22:46
=== jpetso is now known as jpetso_away
=== jpetso_away is now known as jpetso

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