=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell [13:56] thumper, you actually around? [14:00] howdy [14:00] SteveA, I'd like for us to use mootbot today [14:00] Do you want to do that or shall I run it on the side? [14:00] commands here below the fold: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot [14:01] Rinchen, since you know the commands, why don't you run it? [14:01] I spoke to SteveA about it yesterday [14:01] okey dokey [14:02] me [14:02] #startmeeting [14:02] Meeting started at 14:02. The chair is Rinchen. [14:02] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [14:03] Welcome to the Launchpad Developers meeting! The purpose of the meetings is to coordinate Launchpad development, and particularly to ensure that none of the developers is blocked from doing what they need to do. [14:03] [TOPIC] Roll Call [14:03] New Topic: Roll Call [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] heyme [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:03] me [14:04] me [14:04] me [14:04] me (sorta) [14:05] mpt? [14:05] me [14:05] me [14:05] gmb? [14:05] wtf [14:05] coward [14:05] heh [14:05] me [14:05] ok, moving on. And my apologies for not pasting in the agenda. [14:06] LongPointyStick: see what you've done? you scared gmb away [14:06] [TOPIC] Agenda [14:06] New Topic: Agenda [14:06] Next meeting [14:06] Actions from last meeting [14:06] Oops report (Matsubara) [14:06] Critical Bugs (Rinchen) [14:06] * LongPointyStick MUHAHAHAHAHAHA [14:06] Rinchen: gmb is having issues with Freenode - he'll be back shortly [14:06] me [14:06] Bug tags [14:06] Operations report (mthaddon) [14:06] DBA report (stub) [14:06] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) [14:06] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) [14:07] Blockers [14:07] any changes to the agenda? [14:07] 3 [14:07] 2 [14:07] 1 [14:07] [TOPIC] Next meeting [14:07] New Topic: Next meeting [14:08] intellectronica: anyone else you want scared away? [14:08] same time, same place. [14:08] next meeting is scheduled for the the 24th [14:08] +1 [14:08] Right. [14:08] Finally. [14:08] me [14:08] Sorry. [14:08] me [14:08] Anyone know ahead of time that they will not be able to attend? [14:08] i may or may not be able to attend [14:08] i might not be there next week [14:08] [AGREE] next meeting is scheduled for the 24th [14:09] i'll let you know in advance, as soon as i know of the plans for next week [14:09] [AGREED] next meeting is scheduled for the 24th [14:09] AGREED received: next meeting is scheduled for the 24th [14:09] thank intellectronica and BjornT [14:09] [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting [14:09] New Topic: Actions from last meeting [14:09] [AGREED] There were no actions [14:09] AGREED received: There were no actions [14:10] [TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara) [14:10] New Topic: Oops report (Matsubara) [14:10] Today's oops report is about bugs 183626, 160236 [14:10] Bug 183626 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/183626 is private [14:10] stub, I assigned 160236 to you. Can you take a look? It's reproducible with [14:10] two slightly different patterns. [14:10] jamesh, can you take 183626? [14:10] [LINK] http://launchpad.net/bugs/183626 [14:10] LINK received: http://launchpad.net/bugs/183626 [14:11] * stub has a look [14:11] matsubara: sure. [14:11] there's another oops re: mailing lists that I discussed with barry and will file it later on. [14:11] thanks jamesh [14:11] [LINK] http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236 [14:11] LINK received: http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236 [14:11] that one probably doesn't need to be private [14:11] jamesh: all right, I'll change the privacy [14:11] Bug 160236 [14:11] Bug 160236 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236 is private [14:12] [AGREED] jamesh to review bug 183626 [14:12] AGREED received: jamesh to review bug 183626 [14:12] Launchpad bug 183626 in launchpad "OOPS accessing openid identification URL of a non-existent user" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183626 [14:12] MooBot is quite talkative [14:12] yeah :-) [14:13] it's like a three stooges skit [14:13] Will stub be looking at the other bug? [14:13] stub: you ok with taking the other one? [14:13] matsubara: Bug 160236 is one for me. It hasn't been prioritised or targetted. Probably a days work given distractions. [14:13] Bug 160236 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236 is private [14:13] [AGREED] stub will be looking at bug 160236 [14:13] AGREED received: stub will be looking at bug 160236 [14:13] Bug 160236 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236 is private [14:13] Bug 160236 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236 is private [14:13] stub: please comment on but 160236 as to whether there are any security implications [14:13] thanks stub. [14:14] Rinchen: I'm done. thank you. [14:14] Thanks matsubara [14:14] [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen) [14:14] New Topic: Critical Bugs (Rinchen) [14:14] Hi, have one for today [14:14] [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/183297 [14:14] LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/183297 === gmb_ is now known as gmb [14:14] stub: as in, I'd like a comment if there are. And I'd like a comment if there aren't. And I'd like a comment if it needs more research or thinking. [14:14] bug 183297 [14:14] Bug 183297 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/183297 is private [14:14] Edwin, where do you stand on that? [14:14] that's fixed Rinchen, we need a CP for it [14:15] SteveA: Doing now. [14:15] kiko, will you approve the CP for that? [14:15] ta [14:15] Rinchen: I finally got it landed, after lifeless killed off a process on the pqm box that was holding open a port which caused the tests to fail every time for everyone [14:15] Rinchen, matsubara: does it happen often enough for a CP? [14:16] Thanks Edwin. [14:16] kiko: it's a security vulnerability [14:16] point of order [14:16] bugs don't get approved for a CP [14:16] branches or patches do [14:17] so noted. [14:17] the approver's job is to be assured that the change is minimal [14:17] and as free of risk as possible [14:17] and that it actually fixes the problem [14:17] since I'm who approves them in general, rest assured that I KNOW THAT :-P [14:17] I need to see a diff anyway [14:17] exactly [14:18] kiko: this isn't just for you ;-) [14:18] kiko: it's revision 5517 [14:18] if somebody else wants to approve CPs they are in big trouble [14:18] Thanks kiko. Any other discussion on this topic? [14:18] lo [14:18] [TOPIC] Bug tags [14:18] kiko: well... YT likes to approve them sometimes ;-) [14:18] New Topic: Bug tags [14:19] There are no proposed bug tags. [14:19] nonetheless, I think it's important that we all understand what the process is, and why [14:19] [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon) [14:19] New Topic: Operations report (mthaddon) [14:19] Working with thumper to finalise staging codehosting setup [14:19] Production mailman pretty much in place [14:19] Staging update script has had an overall and will be putting in place notifications shortly [14:19] That's it from me unless there are any questions [14:20] s/overall/overhaul [14:20] mthaddon, note https://staging.launchpad.net/successful-updates.txt [14:20] which is a neat URL to have [14:20] [LINK] https://staging.launchpad.net/successful-updates.txt [14:20] LINK received: https://staging.launchpad.net/successful-updates.txt [14:20] nice [14:20] do we have that linked from one of the wiki pages about production systems? [14:20] I'll be putting in place a daily email if the updates haven't succeeded [14:20] that would rock [14:20] mthaddon, yeah, add it to the wikipage [14:21] mthaddon, we should chat later to see about adding it to devpad landing [14:21] yep, will figure out with Rinchen where the best place to put it is [14:22] [AGREED] mthaddon and Rinchen to figure out best place to link the link [14:22] AGREED received: mthaddon and Rinchen to figure out best place to link the link [14:22] [TOPIC] DBA report (stub) [14:22] New Topic: DBA report (stub) [14:22] DB patches for this cycle have been approved. The ones I need to land have landed except for one of Tom's, which is next in the PQM queue. [14:22] People with outstanding db patches they need to land please land them. [14:23] New DB hardware coming soon. Need to chase up status with elmo. [14:23] that would rock/win 14 [14:23] oops [14:23] Nothing else. [14:23] [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) [14:23] New Topic: Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) [14:24] Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent? [14:24] no, though I have a few there [14:24] ah, question [14:24] and the agreed above from Tom should have been an action. My mistake. [14:24] salgado, do we need to deploy anything for tickcount to work? [14:24] kiko, nope, although at this time they're only being stored [14:24] Btw, my original patch for bug #5313 was rejected by pqm for those [14:24] unrelated errors we are seeing so I decided to wait for this small [14:24] change approval to merge all together. [14:24] Launchpad bug 5313 in launchpad "Allow menu links in arbitrary templates" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/5313 [14:24] sorry [14:25] i have an RT [14:25] flacoste: that's my text :-P [14:25] RT #29756: Need an apache box to serve list of country mirrors to apt [14:25] salgado, I don't quite get that -- isn't there a python extension that counts? [14:25] carlos: i know, it was in the X selection [14:25] kiko, ah, right. I'll add it as a dependency in launchpad-dependencies [14:26] flacoste, how urgent is that RT? [14:26] salgado, is it in PQM? otherwise won't your landing fail? [14:26] salgado: ? [14:26] kiko, my landing will probably fail, good point [14:26] salgado, and note with mthaddon that it needs to be updated? [14:26] salgado: we have the same issue with python-simplejson [14:26] it's preventing leonardr' branches from landing [14:27] okay, looks like I'll have to do that today [14:27] no worries, it's quick [14:27] Rinchen: i don't think it's that urgent, salgado? [14:27] Rinchen, not urgent, no [14:27] I wonder... [14:28] [ACTION] salgado to update launchpad-dependencies [14:28] ACTION received: salgado to update launchpad-dependencies [14:28] should we have lanchpad-dependencies packages under /sourcecode/ in a standard RF tree [14:28] so that it's easy to see what they are [14:28] SteveA, salgado: are they big? [14:28] they shoiuld be tiny [14:29] then that'd be a good idea [14:29] thanks kiko [14:29] who will do that? [14:29] python-imaging, graphviz, bison, cvs? [14:29] oh [14:29] salgado I assume yes? [14:29] I don't mean the actual dependencies themselves [14:29] these are some of the dependencies of launchpad-dependencies [14:29] I mean the deb package [14:29] ah [14:29] the "metadata only" thing [14:30] that we build into the dependencies package [14:30] ah, okay [14:30] ken [14:30] sorry I was unclear there [14:30] it's easy to see that with "apt-cache show launchpad-dependencies", though [14:30] that tells you what is installed on a system [14:30] or perhaps what is available in our repo [14:30] doesn't show us the history, or what was added and why [14:31] nope, that gives you the description of the package, including its dependencies [14:31] for the history we have debdiff [14:31] we also have bzr [14:31] and I know how to use bzr [14:32] so SteveA, it's unclear if you are suggesting that salgado do this or requesting that he do this. [14:32] I proposed that it is a good idea [14:32] I think kiko concurs [14:32] so, next step would be filing a bug [14:32] I propose salgado do it [14:32] it's not urgent [14:32] I don't like good ideas with nobody to do them [14:32] but is a good thing [14:32] if nobody's going to do them [14:33] then don't have the idea [14:33] could we manage launchpad-dependencies in a PPA? [14:33] and if it's not in the bugtracker, itl'l be forgotten [14:33] I second salgado do it :) [14:33] I still think that's unnecessary as it's easy to get the history if we ever need it [14:33] salgado, the problem is the opacity of it -- I don't know where to look if I wanna change it [14:33] and I need to learn one more location [14:33] jamesh: the unsigned archives will beat us [14:33] let's have this discussion in the bug report [14:33] to answer the question [14:33] if we end up closing it with no action [14:33] then the discussion is captured there [14:33] cprov: it'd be good to fix that :) [14:34] and if we do it, it gets tracked there [14:34] [ACTION] salgado to investigate adding launchpad-dependencies metadata to RF /sourcecode. A bug report should be filed. [14:34] ACTION received: salgado to investigate adding launchpad-dependencies metadata to RF /sourcecode. A bug report should be filed. [14:34] Any further discussion on this topic or RT requests? [14:34] [TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) [14:34] New Topic: A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) [14:34] jamesh: yes, at some point, but not /tomorrow/ [14:34] This week's user-affecting issue arises from emails we've had over the past couple of weeks to feedback@launchpad.net. [14:35] do our OOPS management scripts and cgis live under /sourcecode/ too? [14:35] It appears some people are getting stuck in the new account creation process. [14:35] I think that would be good, for the same reasons [14:35] The emails we've had suggest that, after following the link in the confirmation email, some of our users don't realise that they have to enter their new password twice. [14:35] Looking at the /+newaccount page I think the instructions are reasonably straightforward. [14:35] SteveA: they are in a bazaar branch, but not checked out under sourcecode [14:35] However, Richard Weideman has also been in touch to say that he feels that were Launchpad to become more popular in an educational setting - such as students and teachers reporting Edubuntu bugs - the signup process may require some more niceties. [14:35] In my chat with Richard, we discussed rewriting the confirmation email to make it friendlier and to offer more handholding. [14:35] I'd like to get your input on this, please, via the launchpad-users list. [14:35] Thanks Rinchen [14:35] jamesh: let's get them present under /sourcecode. they're not big, and it's more apparent where to get them and work on them if they're there [14:36] bug 183230 may be relevant [14:36] Thanks mrevell. [14:36] Launchpad bug 183230 in launchpad "Field for retyping your password should have a separate label" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183230 [14:36] action on matsubara ? [14:36] mrevell, Rinchen: there is already a bug for this [14:36] as mpt says [14:36] I'm not sure what else we could do [14:36] and bug 129399, which is a separate issue [14:36] Launchpad bug 129399 in launchpad ""Password:" label is cryptic on confirmation page" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129399 [14:37] kiko: Yeah, I'm also not sure what else we could do. Thanks fo rpointing to those bugs. [14:37] mpt, I think that bug is fixed -- carlos? [14:37] mpt: I'm working on that bug and should be fixed in this cycle [14:37] kiko: I got new requirements and a better way to fix it [14:37] SteveA, I'll follow up with matsubara on the other request [14:37] carlos, har har [14:37] carlos, you're working on 183230 afaik [14:37] well, not really new requirements but a new mandatory way to solve it [14:38] 129399 is separate [14:38] mpt: yeah, that's what I was talking about [14:38] and probably easier [14:38] sorry, I don't type fast enough... [14:38] :-) [14:38] [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183230 [14:38] LINK received: https://launchpad.net/bugs/183230 [14:38] Launchpad bug 183230 in launchpad "Field for retyping your password should have a separate label" [High,Triaged] [14:38] [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129399 [14:38] LINK received: https://launchpad.net/bugs/129399 [14:38] Launchpad bug 129399 in launchpad ""Password:" label is cryptic on confirmation page" [Low,Confirmed] [14:39] Any further discussion on mrevell's topic? [14:39] ok, we have two last minute additions to the agenda [14:39] \o/ [14:39] [TOPIC] making good use of our beta testers - SteveA [14:39] New Topic: making good use of our beta testers - SteveA [14:40] ah, that topic. I can discourse about it too. :) [14:40] I've been talking with mark about making good use of the efforts our enthusiastic band of beta testers offer to us [14:40] I don't want to say much about it now, cos we don't have much time [14:40] however, there will be discussions and email threads about it soon, and we'll most likely have one feature per release [14:41] that we make special in some way, for beta testers [14:41] that's all from me on this for now. [14:41] [TOPIC] getting creative about adoption and communication - SteveA [14:41] New Topic: getting creative about adoption and communication - SteveA [14:42] also, I've been chatting with mark about how we get people to adopt launchpad [14:42] and how we communicate with the outside world about how launchpad is pretty darn cool [14:42] I want us to try some LEAN experiments in this direction [14:43] so I'll be talking with kiko and other team leads about this over the coming days, to see if we can come up with some ideas within teams [14:43] okay okay [14:43] I don't have good answers, but I think we can make a good process to experiment and try stuff out [14:43] and that's all from me on this, for now [14:43] Thanks SteveA for both topics [14:43] [TOPIC] Blockers [14:43] New Topic: Blockers [14:44] Translations: Not blocked [14:44] Releases Team: Not Blocked. [14:44] stub, jamesh: you guys blocked? [14:44] Bugs Team: not blocked [14:44] no [14:44] SteveA: Thai food, no way. [14:44] SC: not blocked [14:44] Soyuz Team: not blocked [14:44] HWDB: not blocked [14:44] Foundations: some branches are waiting on simplejson and tickcount installation before being landed [14:44] lpcomm: not blocked [14:45] [AGREED] Foundations: some branches are waiting on simplejson and tickcount installation before being landed [14:45] AGREED received: Foundations: some branches are waiting on simplejson and tickcount installation before being landed [14:45] (shows up in the meeting summary that way) [14:45] flacoste, be careful with those dependencies -- maybe elmo needs to be notified, but mthaddon can advise [14:45] Soyuz? [14:45] ah sorry [14:45] Code Hosting? [14:45] kiko: we need a backport (rebuild) for simplejson, maybe also tickcount [14:45] Rinchen: we have no code hosting representative here [14:45] flacoste, kiko, these dependencies can't be added to the dapper package, so we'll have to backport them and install in the machines [14:45] flacoste, sounds like problems [14:46] Rinchen: we need to contact tim, and let him know some kind of representation is expected [14:46] [ACTION] Rinchen to contact thumper about meeting representation [14:46] ACTION received: Rinchen to contact thumper about meeting representation [14:46] Thanks all [14:46] #endmeeting [14:46] Meeting finished at 14:46. [14:46] thanks Rinchen [14:46] thanks MootBot [14:46] thanks kiko [14:46] Logs available at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ [14:46] thanks wonderful launchpad team! [14:46] SteveA: Thank you [14:48] kiko, so this is nifty: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/launchpad-meeting.20080117_1402.html [14:49] , yo [14:49] with the full log at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/launchpad-meeting.log.20080117_1402.html [14:49] hehe [14:49] yeah [14:50] Seeker`, ping [14:58] Rinchen: pong [14:58] Hiya Seeker` [14:58] Some feedback after the LP meeting on the bot [14:58] it worked great but it was too noisy [14:58] is there a way to turn off in channel responses and just keep the moderate private messages? === Rinchen changed the topic of #launchpad-meeting to: Launchpad Meeting Grounds | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Meeting Logs: Logs available at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ [14:59] it would be possible [14:59] but I dont have access to the server atm [14:59] and the guy that does has disappeared it seems [14:59] but the actual code change shouldn't be too hard [15:00] If we need to find better hosting, we might be able to get this hosted at ubuntu.com (the place we host irclogs) [15:01] hah. dream on. [15:01] the hosting is fine, but I forgot my password, and the guy that owns the server isn't about atm :) [15:01] Seeker`, would you be amiable to making those code changes soonish and trying to contact the kryten owner? [15:01] Rinchen: bug 174930 [15:01] Launchpad bug 174930 in mootbot "Very spammy bot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174930 [15:01] when you manage to get rt to host an irc bot on canonical servers, and give some community people access to it, /please/ contact me. [15:01] irc council has been trying that one for a while [15:01] btw, how does it compute the people present? [15:01] thanks matsubara. There you go Seeker` , your very own bug report [15:02] matsubara: It looks at who says stuf [15:02]