[00:38] <phoul> Hey all, Just curious since theres no "Automatic driver installer" for restricted drivers (yet im thinking), does anyone know which driver the nvidia 96xx cards take? Theres three of them in there and i know theres also a legacy 71xx
[00:38] <phoul> im just not sure which one im ment to grab
[00:42] <phoul> Does anyone know by chance?
[00:43] <phoul> Also... ~/.fonts isnt being recognized... just curious what the thing is with htat aswell... not meaning to sound noobish
[00:45] <phoul> Anyone here at all?...
[00:46] <RAOF> phoul: What do you mean by "automatic driver installer"?
[00:46] <phoul> In gutsy theres that... "You require drivers" thing for propiatary drivers
[00:46] <RAOF> And it's in Hardy, too.
[00:46] <phoul> =\
[00:47] <phoul> i havent seen it so far....
[00:47] <phoul> I just installed alpha3
[00:47] <RAOF> System->Administration->Restricted Drivers, if you haven't got the drivers already.
[00:47] <phoul> theres nothing in system > admin  called restricted drivers =\
[00:47] <RAOF> Restricted Driver Manager?
[00:48] <phoul> Nope... i can screenshot what i see if you want, But theres nothing in there i see called that
[00:48] <RAOF> If you don't have that, then you probably have a bad snapshot.
[00:48] <phoul> Perhaps it was the update i did...
[00:48] <RAOF> I'd suggest installing ubuntu-desktop again.
[00:48] <phoul> I just got the cd
[00:48] <phoul> okay
[00:48] <RAOF> (As in "sudo aptitude install ubuntu-desktop")
[00:48] <phoul> When i installed i did a dist-upgrade because some packages said they where being held back... was that a bad thing? (I was just going off of what i remember from dapper alpha)
[00:49] <RAOF> phoul: So, by doing that dist-upgrade you probably removed a bunch of stuff.
[00:49] <phoul> i figured if they were in the update queue they were ment to be installed...
[00:49] <phoul> lol
[00:49] <RAOF> Whenever it asks for confirmation you should read very carefully what apt/aptitude is saying it will do.
[00:50] <RAOF> (This is one of the reasons why I always use aptitude - it is more verbose about what it's going to do)
[00:50] <phoul> well i will install ubuntu-desktop again and that should smooth things out
[00:50] <RAOF> Yup
[00:50] <phoul> k does aptitude have a reinstall command?
[00:51] <phoul> Because i -am- on a desktop lol
[00:51] <phoul> or should i just uninstall then install
[00:52] <phoul> RAOF ^
[00:54] <tretle> hi
[00:54] <tretle> cant seem to download updates
[00:55] <tretle> just did a dist upgrade -d
[00:55] <tretle> and now hardy tells me there are 11 updates
[00:55] <tretle> but an error comes up when i try the partial upgrade
[00:56] <phoul> RAOF, im thinkin i should reinstall and not do that dist-upgrade.... i reinstalled ubuntu-desktop and it didnt work... and my ~/.fonts arnt showing up... im thinkin there was a reason those packages are being held back ><
[00:59] <phoul> http://insecure-complexity.com/erm.png
[00:59] <phoul> thats all thats in my sys > admin menu
[01:04] <phoul> RAOF, you still here?
[01:04] <RAOF> Ya, sorry.
[01:04] <RAOF> There is an aptitude reinstall command.
[01:04] <phoul> i tried that already
[01:05] <RAOF> Right.  It won't have done anything interesting for ubuntu-desktop.
[01:05] <extra> I just did an update and my local and language has been 'unset'
[01:05] <extra> locale
[01:06] <phoul> RAOF, what do you think i need to do =\
[01:06] <phoul> Because even before the update there was nothing about drivers that came up =|
[01:07] <RAOF> phoul: Maybe not use Hardy?  Or reinstall?
[01:07] <phoul> I was told to use hardy...
[01:08]  * phoul sighs
[01:08] <RAOF> These aren't problems I'm familiar with, nor do I really have the time to debug them for you.
[01:08] <RAOF> Who told you to use Hardy?
[01:08] <phoul> crimsun,
[01:08] <RAOF> Then bug him? :)
[01:08] <phoul> Hes away
[01:08] <RAOF> Right.  He asked you to use hardy to test... some audio stuff?
[01:08] <extra> can someone help me file a bug report, cause this problem seems pretty extreme.. would hate for it to happen to someone else
[01:08] <RAOF> extra: You probably want #ubuntu-bugs for that.
[01:09] <phoul> RAOF, i was having issues with multiple things in gutsy, And he said try upgrading to hardy
[01:09] <tretle> if no-one used hardy to test then the end result would be horrible
[01:09] <extra> RAOF: thanks.. do they apply to heron bugs?
[01:09] <RAOF> extra: Yes.  In fact, mainly to heron bugs.
[01:09] <extra> RAOF: k, thanks for the help :)
[01:09] <phoul> Im not sure what i did considering all i did was install && update..
[01:10] <tretle> so i dont see why alot of people try and convince you not to use it when u find a bug
[01:10] <RAOF> tretle: Because testing at this point is much more usefully done by people who know how to deal with bugs, and don't actually *need* to use their computer :)
[01:11] <phoul> I do know how to deal with bugs... but this "bug" is just... SOmething that is non existant and ubuntu-only
[01:11] <phoul> So im not sure how to handle it
[01:11] <RAOF> It really should be pulled in with ubuntu-desktop..
[01:11] <phoul> Like... theres no restricted-driver-applet package...
[01:11] <phoul> Its not there =\
[01:11] <phoul> as you can see from the screenshot
[01:12] <RAOF> You could try (re)installing the restricted-manager package.
[01:12] <phoul> it wasnt installed... that would explain alot... i wonder how it got removed...
[01:13] <tretle> well if thats the case then what are people to do when gutsy doesnt support their hardware and wont ever support it becasue of how the repositories are set up
[01:13] <tretle> and example would be the new ipod nano
[01:13] <phoul> I had my ipod nano working in gutsy
[01:13] <tretle> the new one
[01:13] <phoul> Just had to google around abit and use unsupported packages
[01:13] <phoul> Yeah i know
[01:13] <phoul> 8gig vid silver
[01:14] <phoul> brb reboot time
[01:14] <tretle> having to add stuff like that manually isnt exactly the great packaging which gets spread around the net about ubuntu
[01:14] <RAOF> tretle: Well, they can wait <= 6months for the next version, or...
[01:14] <tretle> will the basic user google around the net to try and solve a dependancy issue
[01:15] <RAOF> The basic user will probably give up at "it doesn't work".
[01:15] <tretle> so they get an ipod and have to wait six months before they can use it
[01:15] <tretle> lol
[01:15] <RAOF> Yup.
[01:15] <RAOF> Sucks to get evil proprietary closed hardware that apple *deliberately* breaks.
[01:15] <RAOF> Basically, it's their lookout.
[01:16] <tretle> sucks to have a great os like ubuntu refuse to adapt
[01:16] <tretle> in a sane way
[01:16] <phoul> Alrighty thats one down
[01:16] <tretle> not a 6months way
[01:16] <phoul> now to figure out why my fonts are not being detected
[01:16] <RAOF> tretle: Stable, up-to-date.  Pick one.
[01:17] <tretle> yeah..... but sometimes ubuntu might not give you stable when you have stable
[01:17] <RAOF> The ipod problem is exactly the same as if they'd bought some other piece of non-linux-supported hardware.
[01:18] <phoul> Is there a package that handles fonts that maybe got removed too? =\
[01:18] <tretle> say if gutsy saw .6 version as stable and after it was released the new stable was 1.0 and unstable was 1.2 gutsy would still be using .6
[01:18] <RAOF> tretle: By "stable" I mean "doesn't randomly change state from working to non-working"
[01:18] <tretle> even though 1.0 is stable
[01:18] <tretle> which is why i think its abit insane
[01:18] <RAOF> But will undoubtedly break something that was working in 0.6
[01:19] <RAOF> And even if it doesn't, it *could* break something that was working in 0.6
[01:19] <phoul> RAOF, any ideas on the fonts?
[01:19] <RAOF> phoul: None, sorry.
[01:19] <tretle> if its modular that wouldnt be such a problem
[01:19] <phoul> is the folder ~/.fonts correct?
[01:20] <Zambezi> I heard there's encryption in HH? If yes, is working well?
[01:20] <Pici> !fonts
[01:20] <ubotu> Font installation basics here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FontInstallHowto - No fonts in Flash? Install "msttcorefonts" (from !Multiverse), "gsfonts", and "gsfonts-x11". No fonts in MPlayer? see !MPlayer
[01:20] <RAOF> tretle: In what way?  If it's modular then it might break anything that depends upon it.
[01:20] <RAOF> Zambezi: Yup, works fine.
[01:20] <tretle> as in easy to maintain each part of code
[01:20] <tretle> if something depends on telepathy
[01:21] <Zambezi> RAOF: Tried serverversion too? I want it for a server which I don't use that often. But rebooting my desktop isn't something I'm too happy about.
[01:21] <RAOF> tretle: But most of the problem you describe is already fixed by the backports system.  Or at least would be fixed if anyone bothered to ask for backports.
[01:21] <tretle> then it should be easy to support newer versions without breaking anything else in said app which doesnt need telepathy
[01:21] <RAOF> tretle: Nice in theory.  Doesn't apply to any real-world situation, sadly.
[01:22] <Zambezi> Btw. I have a better name on HH. What about Horny Hippo? ;-)
[01:22] <tretle> it does
[01:22] <RAOF> tretle: Also, not anything that ubuntu can do itself :)
[01:22] <tretle> its called being a good coder
[01:22] <tretle> lol
[01:22]  * RAOF will leave that one alone.
[01:23] <RAOF> Zambezi: Hardy on a server seems a bad idea.  But the cryptroot stuff should work fine.
[01:23] <tretle> if an app isnt modular you can ahve issues if you want to get that app working on another platform
[01:23] <tretle> an example of this would be xbmc
[01:24] <Zambezi> RAOF: I want the encryption on the server. Usually it's not more than some hours of uptime at the time.
[01:25] <RAOF> tretle: Bugs exist.  Strange dependencies exist.  Even in code written by ninja hackers in a modular fasion.
[01:25] <tretle> eh
[01:25] <tretle> your right there
[01:25] <RAOF> Also, the Ubuntu project doesn't actually do much coding.
[01:25] <tretle> no-ones perfect
[01:26] <RAOF> Mostly what (the packagers) do is to package other people's work, making it comply with Ubuntu policy.
[01:27] <scizzo-> RAOF: why not get to your point?
[01:28] <RAOF> scizzo-: Sorry, I thought that was already clear.  It's not possible to have a stable release while also upgrading stuff.
[01:30] <RAOF> scizzo-: tretle is arguing that we could (say) update Gutsy with the new Banshee+podsleuth+ipod-sharp so that new ipods could work in gutsy.
[01:31] <scizzo-> no one is actually forced to use the ubuntu packages _only_
[01:31] <scizzo-> you can compile them also so.....
[01:31] <scizzo-> I am using GIMP and Inkscape from SVN mostly for testing them before they go stable.....
[01:32] <phoul> And i use e17 from cvs
[01:32] <phoul> Because god knows when e17 will go stable
[01:32] <phoul> >.>
[01:32] <DarkMageZ> do you honestly think 8 year old kids are gonna compile libgpod & amarok/rhythmbox/banshee from source to support their new ipod for christmas? no... they're gonna run windows and install the new itunes!
[01:33] <tretle> lol
[01:33] <scizzo-> hehe
[01:33] <tretle> whats ubuntu's catchphrase again?
[01:33] <scizzo-> yes...
[01:33] <tretle> hehehe
[01:34] <DarkMageZ> i honestly believe this is falling short of the "linux for human beings"
[01:34] <tretle> I understand the fundamental problem though
[01:35] <tretle> I just think that some things, like ipod support maybe should be put into a different category
[01:35] <tretle> im surprized its not part of hal to be honest
[01:35] <tretle> hal gets updated even in stable versions of ubuntu right?
[01:35] <DarkMageZ> then we'd have to upgrade hal to support the new ipod... which is even less likely.
[01:36] <DarkMageZ> yeah. hal seems to get updated every release.
[01:36] <tretle> but hal could be put outside of the constraints box
[01:36] <scizzo-> well actually you can still get hal from hardy if its only that you need....or the like.....its a bit tricky but its not to hard
[01:36] <tretle> which would allow for ipod support no matter what version of ubuntu you are using
[01:37] <tretle> stuff that handle hardwre should not have 6month long release schedules
[01:37] <scizzo-> however I belive that it might be a dependency against the kernel and well that might cause problems if the upgrade is not done correctly
[01:37] <RAOF> tretle: It is now a part of hal.  Or, rather, the new Banshee depends on podsleuth which integrates with hal.
[01:37] <DarkMageZ> i think someone should take this to the ubuntu technical council and get a proper solution sorted.
[01:38] <tretle> software I dont mind having 6 month release plans
[01:38] <tretle> but hadware is a different story
[01:38] <RAOF> DarkMageZ: To what problem?  The specific ipod problem, or the more general "my hardwore isn't sopported" problem?
[01:38] <tretle> it might give first timers a bad impression of ubuntu
[01:38] <tretle> which is apples fault
[01:39] <scizzo-> isnt debian also using the same solution for stable releases? to release security updates and suggested packages from the mainstainers/developers if there is a security risk for the stable version?
[01:39] <tretle> but still it creates that impression
[01:39] <RAOF> scizzo-: Certianly with the security updates, not sure about the suggested packages.  Probably not, although backports exist.
[01:39] <DarkMageZ> RAOF, the new ipods are supported in the new version of libgpod. it's not that they're not supported. it's that ubuntu is out of date after release.
[01:40] <scizzo-> RAOF: more contributers for the backports I belive
[01:40] <RAOF> Much of this problem could be solved by people actually using the existing backports infrastructure.
[01:40] <DarkMageZ> RAOF, do you honestly believe that a 8 year old is gonna understand this backports thing?
[01:40] <RAOF> DarkMageZ: Sorry, what I meant was "my hardware isn't supported in $VERSION, but $VERSION+! supports it".
[01:40] <RAOF> DarkMageZ: No.
[01:41] <tretle> what version of libgpod works with the new ipods
[01:42] <RAOF> DarkMageZ: But 8 year olds don't have to understand it.
[01:42] <DarkMageZ> RAOF, 8 year olds have their own computers these days and if you want to rid the world of windows then you're gonna have to compete.
[01:42] <RAOF> (If people who *did* understand it asked for & tested backports)
[01:43] <tretle> blol, banshee is telling me i used the ipod with a version of itunes which is too new and wont be able to work
[01:43] <RAOF> DarkMageZ: Right.  On the other hand, parents exist.
[01:43] <tretle> this is on hardy
[01:43] <DarkMageZ> are you saying that IF a backport was tested enough then it would actually reach the official branch?
[01:43] <RAOF> tretle: Yup.  Sucks to have an ipod.  Apple deliberately breaks 3rd party tools with almost every firmware update.
[01:43] <phoul> anyone here use mpd?
[01:44] <RAOF> DarkMageZ: No, but it'd be in the backports repository, which is much easier to get from.
[01:44] <tretle> how do i fix it
[01:44] <DarkMageZ> ...
[01:44] <tretle> wipe it?
[01:44] <RAOF> tretle: By getting banshee to rebuild the database, and not using itunes.
[01:44] <RAOF> DarkMageZ: So, it would be good to have a better UI around backports.
[01:45] <tretle> how do u rebuild the database?
[01:45] <phoul> No one knows about mpd i guess... darn
[01:45] <DarkMageZ> so basically you're saying that the parents are gonna have to take their 8 year old kids computer to the computer shop so the techie can install a shop customized version of the package or if lucky from backports.
[01:45] <RAOF> tretle: banshee should offer to do that, I think.
[01:45] <phoul> time for banshee!
[01:46] <tretle> it does but there is no button to do it
[01:46] <RAOF> There's a link to do it?
[01:47] <RAOF> DarkMageZ: Why would they take it to a computer shop.  They're familiar enough with installing software on Ubuntu to fire up the package manager and install the new version.
[01:47] <scizzo-> DarkMageZ: http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libgpod&searchon=names&suite=stable&section=all
[01:47] <scizzo-> you might suggest the 0.3.2 version instead?
[01:47] <DarkMageZ> RAOF, but they won't have backports enabled because it's not "stable". so there won't be the new version.
[01:48] <RAOF> DarkMageZ: Again, there could be some better UI.  But the fundamental problem is solved by backports.
[01:48] <RAOF> Or, rather, should be solved by backports if they got a little more love.
[01:49] <RAOF> By people who clamour for new versions of stuff :)
[01:49] <scizzo-> RAOF: and people contributing to it
[01:49] <RAOF> scizzo-: Indeed.  It's really *extremely* simple to help get backports done.
[01:50] <RAOF> With a little more infrastructure, it could be even easier.
[01:50] <tretle> where do i rebuild?
[01:52] <RAOF> tretle: I'm not sure.  I don't have a broken ipod handy.  But I seem to remember that when you select the ipod in banshee the main frame will have some text like "you've used a new version of itunes..." and you can click on some of the text under there that says "rebuild database".
[01:53] <tretle> no link
[01:54] <phoul> RAOF, is there a way to open Users & Groups as root since the "unlock" button doesnt work and doing sudo users-admin also doesnt ungrey the options =\
[01:56] <RAOF> phoul: You can't open it as root (it won't work).  The unlock button should be working at this point.  If it doesn't, file a bug.
[01:56] <phoul> i just get a uhh
[01:56] <phoul> could not authenticate
[01:57] <RAOF> Right.  Bug filing time.
[02:00] <phoul> erm
[02:00] <phoul> I cant =|
[02:00] <phoul> users-admin isnt a valid program to report a bug with according to launchpad
[02:00] <phoul> :|
[02:03] <RAOF> Here's a trick: while you've got user-admin open, you can do run "ubuntu-bug -P $(pgrep users-admin)" to file a bug against it.
[02:03] <phoul> is that part of ubuntu-desktop?
[02:04] <phoul> alrighty done
[02:05] <cdm10> Interesting thing happened today, I did a fresh Hardy install and the update-manager said it couldn't compute the upgrade when it went in for a dist-upgrade. apt-get dist-upgrade did just fine, though.
[02:05] <RAOF> cdm10: That probably means you've broken something.
[02:05] <cdm10> RAOF: heh, fresh install.
[02:06] <RAOF> cdm10: No, I mean that running apt-get dist-upgrade has broken something.
[02:06] <cdm10> RAOF: Aww, that sucks... what was I supposed to do?
[02:06] <cdm10> RAOF: It's a VM, and I have it snapshotted on a clean install, so nothing's too permanent.
[02:06] <cdm10> RAOF: but, just wondering what I should have done...
[02:07] <RAOF> Generally?  Either pay close attention to what apt-get says it's going to do when you run dist-upgrade, use aptitude instead (and pay close attention to what it says it's going to do), or use update manager and wait until it *can* calculate the upgrade :)
[02:07] <cdm10> RAOF: ha, alright. If I run into issues, I'll just revert back to fresh and start over using update-manager.
[02:07]  * phoul isnt sure how much hes enjoying this >.>
[02:08] <phoul> lol
[02:08] <RAOF> Basically, during development there will be many times when running 'apt-get dist-upgrade' will break your system.
[02:08] <cdm10> phoul: alphas aren't supposed to be fun!
[02:08] <cdm10> RAOF: oh, hooray for VMs then :)
[02:08] <RAOF> Indeed.
[02:08] <cdm10> RAOF: what does update-manager do instead?
[02:08] <phoul> it runs apt-get upgrade
[02:08] <cdm10> phoul: That's exactly what I was just told not to do.
[02:08] <phoul> and leaves the ones that cannot be updated to not be updated instead of dist upgrading to get everything
[02:09] <phoul> Im wishing i -had- ran upgrade not dist-upgrade
[02:09] <phoul> that didnt go well
[02:09] <WorkingOnWise> !nvidia
[02:09] <ubotu> To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
[02:09] <cdm10> phoul: what does update-manager's distribution upgrade mode do then?
[02:09] <cdm10> phoul: It's come up several times during the alpha.
[02:09] <phoul> updates what it can and leaves the rest
[02:09] <cdm10> Is that any different from dist-upgrade?
[02:09] <cdm10> phoul: i thought that was what normal updates do... this one removes packages and stuff.
[02:09] <phoul> Yeah
[02:10] <phoul> dist-upgrade does some bad stuff if you dont watch it
[02:10] <cdm10> Ah.
[02:10] <phoul> usually its used only for upgrading distrobutions like... fiesty to gutsy
[02:10] <phoul> or dapper to fiesty
[02:10] <phoul> or w/e
[02:10] <WorkingOnWise> somewhere after alpha 1, hardy's restricted driver manager in broken on my laptop. what info should I include in a bug report in launchpad?
[02:10] <cdm10> phoul: so, I'm still not clear on the differences between update-manager when it says it's doing a distribution upgrade and dist-upgrade.
[02:11] <phoul> hrm
[02:11] <phoul> if it says its doing a dist-upgrade
[02:11] <phoul> theres no difference
[02:11] <phoul> Ive never had update manager do that though
[02:11] <cdm10> phoul: ok
[02:11] <cdm10> phoul: really? during the alpha it happens all the time.
[02:11] <phoul> hrm
[02:11] <phoul> IM still trying to get mpd working with pulse audio
[02:11] <phoul> =\
[02:11] <cdm10> Well, perhaps that's what's breaking my system :)
[02:11] <phoul> which is not going well by the way...
[02:11] <phoul> lol
[02:12] <cdm10> I wonder if the users-admin thing is fixed yet.
[02:12] <phoul> I filed a bug for that not 5 minuits ago about unlocking issues
[02:12] <phoul> lol
[02:12] <ToxinPowe> RAOF nice words, I agree with you
[02:13] <cdm10> phoul: the users-admin thing?
[02:13] <phoul> yeah
[02:13] <cdm10> phoul: i'm talking about a crash when you try to add a new user.
[02:13] <phoul> ohh
[02:13] <phoul> i cant unlock mine
[02:13] <phoul> lol
[02:13] <cdm10> phoul: ouch :)
[02:13] <cdm10> phoul: make sure it's not running as root.
[02:13] <phoul> it shouldnt be
[02:13] <cdm10> phoul: straight off the CD, the .desktop file still runs it as root
[02:13] <cdm10> which breaks the unlocking
[02:13] <phoul> Im not sure how to check that
[02:14] <phoul> Ive looked at the .desktop and all it shows is users-admin
[02:14] <phoul> not gksu users-admin or any of that
[02:14] <cdm10> phoul: ok, so you have the update that fixes it.
[02:14] <cdm10> phoul: lemme try it on mine, booting it up.
[02:15] <phoul> This is my system atm... im kinda wondering if i should be running an alpha system as my only system which is important if it work
[02:15] <phoul> :|
[02:15] <phoul> lol
[02:15] <cdm10> phoul: yeah, probably not :)
[02:15] <cdm10> phoul: wow, yeah, updates broke policykit :)
[02:15] <phoul> ugg crap
[02:15] <cdm10> phoul: which is why you shouldn't be running alphas.
[02:15] <phoul> lol
[02:16] <phoul> i used to run debian sid as my stable box and it was fine...
[02:16] <phoul> i figured it'd be about the same
[02:16] <phoul> lol
[02:16] <cdm10> it would be nice if gksu users-admin actually worked, for if policykit breaks on you.
[02:16] <WorkingOnWise> somewhere after alpha 1, hardy's restricted driver manager in broken on my laptop. what info should I include in a bug report in launchpad?
[02:17] <phoul> cdm10, can i query you for a moment?
[02:17] <cdm10> phoul: sure
[02:19] <tretle> is ipod-sharp in hardy yet?
[02:21] <phoul> the libgpod lib for reading the new ipods is
[02:24] <RAOF> tretle: I think the new ipod-sharp & podsleuth is now in Hardy.
[02:24] <RAOF> tretle: Banshee shouldn't be too far behind.
[02:27] <tretle> well my ipod nano doesnt seem to work
[02:28] <tretle> banshee asks if i want it to build a new database
[02:28] <tretle> but doesnt give me an option to do it
[02:31] <tretle> oh and could someone tell me the difference between kernel 2.6.24-4-386 and kernel 2.6.24-4-GENERIC
[02:31] <tretle> 386 is stuck at the loading screen
[02:32] <tretle> and generic isnt
[02:37] <tretle> .restart
[02:56] <tretle> getting error on update "Could not calculate the upgrade"
[02:58] <phoul> well i got some stuff working now, so its functional to stay on hardy :)
[02:59] <phoul> Hopefully tomorrow the policys will be fixed and i will be good-to-go
[02:59] <phoul> :)
[03:44] <phoul> hrm, is there a way to restart all the sound stuff like pulse & alsa and whatnot without rebooting
[03:44] <phoul> I know alsa is easy to restart but i dont know anything about pulse
[03:44] <phoul> Because my sound just died randomly everythings saying connection refused
[03:44] <phoul> =|
[03:47] <phoul> any ideas?
[03:48] <DanaG> You can just run 'pulseaudio'
[03:48] <phoul> okay well that didnt fix anything lol
[03:49] <phoul> im trying to figure out how to fix this sound issue without rebooting
[03:49] <DanaG> Hmm.
[03:49] <phoul> Because rebooting gets offely annoying
[03:49] <phoul> lol
[03:51] <phoul> I guess rebooting would be best..
[03:51] <phoul> blah
[03:51] <phoul> i hate rebooting linux
[03:51] <phoul> feels so wrong
[03:51] <DanaG> It's not necessarily best, but it is the simplest.
[03:51] <phoul> okay
[03:51] <phoul> well... if you know another solution... im all ears :D
[03:53] <phoul> http://pastebin.ca/858111
[03:53] <phoul> thats interesting
[03:53] <DanaG> Well, I seem to have some script that reloads 'alsa', that I don't remember where I got it from.
[03:53] <phoul> well reloading alsa is just /etc/init.d/alsa-utils restart
[03:53]  * Hobbsee would suggest killing the pulseaudio process then restarting it?
[03:53] <DanaG> www.csc.calpoly/~dgoyette/reload-alsa.sh
[03:53] <RAOF> pulseaudio -kill FTW
[03:53] <DanaG> (I love having web space.)
[03:54] <phoul> erm
[03:54] <phoul> that webspace is like
[03:54] <phoul> not working
[03:54] <phoul> server not sound
[03:54] <phoul> calpoly.net,org,us,cu...
[03:55] <phoul> phoul@zomgbox:~$ sudo pulseaudio -kill
[03:55] <phoul> pulseaudio: invalid option -- i
[03:55] <phoul> E: main.c: Failed to parse command line.
[03:55] <phoul> pulseaudio: daemon/ltdl-bind-now.c:156: pa_ltdl_done: Assertion `lt_dlexit() == 0' failed.
[03:55] <phoul> Aborted (core dumped)
[03:55] <DanaG> oops.
[03:55] <DanaG> left off .edu
[03:55] <RAOF> Whoops.  --kill
[03:55] <DanaG> Silly me.
[03:55] <phoul> the second says E: main.c: Failed to kill daemon.
[03:55] <RAOF> phoul: Also, why are you running pulse as root?
[03:55] <phoul> i have no idea
[03:56] <RAOF> Then stop :)
[03:56] <phoul> i figured since it was a startup service it would be run as root
[03:56] <RAOF> pulseaudio --kill
[03:56] <phoul> lol
[03:56] <RAOF> phoul: It isn't a startup service.
[03:56] <RAOF> It runs as your user.
[03:56] <RAOF> (And you may wish to add yourself to the pulse-rt group, to give pulse RT priority priviledges)
[03:56] <phoul> when i go into sound prefs im getting... autotestsrc wave=sine freq 512! audio convert! audioresample ! gconfaudiosink: Failed to connect: Connection refused
[03:57] <RAOF> Right.  Not a useful error message.
[03:57] <phoul> and your scripts forbidden
[03:57] <RAOF> What is your sink set to?
[03:57] <phoul> lol i was really hoping it would be because i typed it out lol
[03:57] <phoul> I havent changed anything at all
[03:58] <phoul> where do i see sink settings
[03:58] <phoul> or any of that
[03:58] <RAOF> phoul: System->Pref->Sound
[03:58] <RAOF> They're probably all set to autodetect.
[03:58] <phoul> I have them all set to pulseaudio
[03:58] <phoul> except sound capture
[03:58] <phoul> which is alsa
[03:59] <DanaG> Oh yeah, one useful thing: libasound2-plugins
[04:00] <phoul> k thats installing... i doubt that will fix my problem however
[04:00] <DanaG> That lets you set pulseaudio as default for even non-pulseaudio apps.
[04:00] <RAOF> phoul: Does running "pulseaudio --kill" followed by running "pulseaudio" do anything?
[04:00] <DanaG> However, some apps (such as Skype) still break with it.
[04:01] <phoul> naw i stil lget that error when hitting test in sound prefs
[04:02] <phoul> very odd...
[04:03] <phoul> as for adding myself to that group, i will as soon as the users-admin thing is fixed, Unless you know how to do it another way... I remember doing it with usermod but its a little ugly and i donno how much ubuntu likes that
[04:03] <DanaG> sudo adduser user group
[04:04] <DanaG> or should I say, 'username groupname'
[04:04] <DanaG> (makes it less ambiguous.)  Takes effect only after logout.  :9
[04:04] <DanaG> :(
[04:05] <phoul> alrighty well im added to the group now
[04:05] <phoul> :)
[04:05] <phoul> still refused connection however
[04:06] <DanaG> Well, have you run pulseaudio?
[04:06] <phoul> yeah
[04:06] <DanaG> Try it in console, and look for debug output.
[04:06] <phoul> phoul@zomgbox:~$ pulseaudio --kill
[04:06] <phoul> phoul@zomgbox:~$ pulseaudio
[04:06] <phoul> phoul@zomgbox:~$
[04:07] <phoul> No output at all =\
[04:07] <DanaG> Odd.
[04:08] <DanaG> Try 'strace pulseaudio'
[04:08] <RAOF> Very.
[04:08] <DanaG> and look for anything like 'denied'
[04:08] <phoul> write(2, "W: core-util.c: \33[1msetpriority("..., 57W: core-util.c: setpriority(): Permission denied
[04:08] <phoul> ) = 57
[04:08] <phoul> A whole lot of permission denied stuff
[04:08] <phoul> If you need to see more its pastebin time
[04:08] <phoul> lol
[04:09] <DanaG> Well, that's just the priority stuff.  Perhaps having added to group but not restarted Gnome has confused things.
[04:09] <phoul> i will restart gnome
[04:09] <phoul> brb
[04:10] <phoul> okay that errors still there
[04:11] <DanaG> Odd.
[04:11] <phoul> just not nearly as many times
[04:11] <phoul> just once now
[04:11] <phoul> ohh wait
[04:11] <phoul> no nvm its there just as many
[04:11] <phoul> lol
[04:12] <DanaG> Okay, try pulseaudio not under strace.
[04:12] <phoul> execve("/usr/bin/pulseaudio", ["pulseaudio"], [/* 34 vars */]) = 0
[04:12] <phoul> brk(0)                                  = 0x8054000
[04:12] <phoul> fcntl64(0, F_GETFD)                     = 0
[04:12] <phoul> fcntl64(1, F_GETFD)                     = 0
[04:12] <phoul> fcntl64(2, F_GETFD)                     = 0
[04:12] <phoul> access("/etc/suid-debug", F_OK)         = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[04:12] <phoul> access("/etc/ld.so.nohwcap", F_OK)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[04:12] <phoul> mmap2(NULL, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0xb7fa3000
[04:12] <phoul> access("/etc/ld.so.preload", R_OK)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[04:12] <phoul> open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY)      = 3
[04:12] <phoul> fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=47284, ...}) = 0
[04:12] <phoul> mmap2(NULL, 47284, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0xb7f97000
[04:12] <phoul> close(3)                                = 0
[04:12] <RAOF> Pastebin!
[04:12] <phoul> access("/etc/ld.so.nohwcap", F_OK)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[04:12] <phoul> open("/usr/lib/libpulsecore.so.5", O_RDONLY) = 3
[04:12] <phoul> read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0@\350\0"..., 512) = 512
[04:12] <phoul> fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=393528, ...}) = 0
[04:12] <phoul> mmap2(NULL, 396524, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0xb7f36000
[04:12] <phoul> mmap2(0xb7f94000, 12288, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x5d) = 0xb7f94000
[04:12] <phoul> close(3)                                = 0
[04:12] <phoul> access("/etc/ld.so.nohwcap", F_OK)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[04:12] <phoul> open("/usr/lib/libltdl.so.3", O_RDONLY) = 3
[04:12] <RAOF> Quick, before you've auto-kicked from the channel.
[04:12] <phoul> read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\360\22"..., 512) = 512
[04:13]  * Pici makes note to get floodbots in here.
[04:13] <phoul> Am i still spamming
[04:14] <RAOF> No :)
[04:14] <phoul> Thank god
[04:14] <phoul> http://pastebin.ca/858124 <-- thats the pastebin
[04:14] <phoul> I ment to paste it into pastebin
[04:14] <phoul> However it went here instead -_-
[04:14] <RAOF> Heh.
[04:14] <phoul> So do we have any ideas on how to fix this, Or should i just reboot
[04:15] <RAOF> I'd suggest a reboot.  It's basically easier.
[04:15] <phoul> Yeah but...
[04:15] <phoul> If this repeats isnt that could be a issue
[04:15] <phoul> lol
[04:15] <RAOF> If it persists across reboots, or if the problem comes back, then we can debug further.
[04:15] <phoul> alrighty
[04:15] <phoul> brb
[04:17] <phoul> Do you by chance know anything about MPD?
[04:26] <phoul> hrm, I bet mpd would work with pulse audio if it didnt require root....
[04:27] <phoul> i doubt the user it switches down too is in the pulseaudio group...
[04:28] <MGrunde> Anyone know if the apparmor problems are fixed in today's daily?
[04:28] <phoul> apparmor problems?
[04:29] <MGrunde> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=647175
[04:30] <phoul> I havent gotten that error... so i guess maybe i just rebooted and i didnt see it
[04:30] <MGrunde> I was unable to install from the alpha 2 and 3 CDs.
[04:30] <MGrunde> Installing from alpha 1 then upgrading works fine for some reason though...
[05:08] <crimsun> phoul: yes?
[05:10] <phoul> ahh yay
[05:10] <phoul> Do you use mpd?
[05:13] <DanaG> Oh yeah, that reminds me: timidity as a daemon seems tricky to get to work with PulseAudio.
[05:14] <DanaG> As it is, I don't use midi apps (or midi files, for that matter) very often, so I just run timidity as a user, instead.
[05:15] <phoul> whats timidity?..
[05:16] <DanaG> !info timidity
[05:16] <ubotu> timidity: Software sound renderer (MIDI sequencer, MOD player). In component universe, is optional. Version 2.13.2-16ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 532 kB, installed size 1688 kB
[05:16] <DanaG> It helps to have good soundfonts, too.
[05:16] <phoul> ahh
[05:17] <DanaG> I'm using a '8mbgmpat'
[05:17] <DanaG> patch set.
[05:40] <kdubois> so i upgraded to hardy yesterday, which seemed to absolutely break my installation of compiz
[05:40] <kdubois> anyone else having similiar problems?
[05:45] <kdubois> also, is hardy going to use X11-xcb?
[05:47] <RAOF> kdubois: Already is.
[05:48] <kdubois> RAOF: nice, about time :-)
[06:07] <DanaG> Well, compiz git works for me, but gtk-window-decorator does not.
[06:09] <crdlb> what makes you assume the problem is gtk-window-decorator ?
[06:10] <DanaG> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/52105/
[06:10] <DanaG> Everything else works fine for me, including emerald.
[06:10] <DanaG> Though it HAS gotten slower with Hardy (might be 169.07 doing it).
[09:56] <mrtimdog> Hi, maybe a silly question, but does anybody know to press the keypad keys on an IBM T42/T40 laptop?
[12:21] <Karotte> hi
[12:22] <Karotte> how stable is hardy at the moment, would you recommend upgrading from gutsy?
[12:32] <TheInfinity> Karotte: if you want to have a system for work: never use alpha / beta software+
[12:32] <TheInfinity> if you like to play around and perhaps miss everything: your welcome.
[12:40] <Karotte> TheInfinity: hm yeah
[12:41] <TheInfinity> you should have some knowledge about ubuntu to run hardy. alphatesting is nothing for beginners
[15:13] <white_eagle> what will be the biggest improvement in hardy? except lts
[15:14] <white_eagle> or its still unknown
[15:15] <Tomcat_> white_eagle: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/alpha3
[15:16] <Tomcat_> New xorg, PulseAudio, FF3, that's about it.
[15:16] <Pici> Stability.
[15:16] <Tomcat_> I think that's the LTS part ;P
[15:48] <neversfelde> Hello, there are several new folders in ~ like music etc.. Is it possible to change the path of them?
[15:48] <Tomcat_> neversfelde: You can delete them if you want...
[15:48] <neversfelde> ah sorry, Kubuntu ;)
[15:49] <neversfelde> Tomcat_: I like them, but my / is to small
[15:49] <Tomcat_> neversfelde: You can change the path in /etc/xdg/user-dirs.defaults
[15:50] <neversfelde> thx
[15:50] <Tomcat_> neversfelde: Oh... wait a sec.
[15:50] <Tomcat_> neversfelde: Try the xdg-user-dir* apps
[15:51] <neversfelde> Tomcat_: is it a file?
[15:51] <Tomcat_> neversfelde: No, an app.
[15:52] <Tomcat_> No idea how it works, but it can be used to change the dirs as well I think.
[15:52] <Tomcat_> Check Google or something.
[15:56] <neversfelde> I will try it. Thank you
[16:03] <neversfelde> I think you have to change ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs and run xdg-user-dirs-update after that
[16:03] <Tomcat_> Yeah, that might be.
[16:26] <tretle> rhythmbox upnp isnt working is it?
[17:13] <geser> tretle: the upnp plugin needs some packages which are in universe, so rhythmbox can't depend on them. But I forgot which ones it were.
[18:55] <timing> do more people have no compiz after going back from standby or hybernate?
[18:55] <timing> i can't find it so far in the bts
[18:56] <lemonade> well... i can't get back from hybernate
[18:56] <Pici> I can't run compiz to begin with ;)
[18:56] <lemonade> i guess my wlan-driver is against me
[18:56] <crdlb> timing: what happens when you try to run compiz?
[18:56] <timing> o let me see
[18:57] <timing> compiz.real --replace it is right?
[18:57] <crdlb> compiz --replace
[18:57] <timing> k
[18:57] <Pici> Mines an ati/fglrx issue, I didnt try it after this most recent kernel update though..
[18:57] <timing> crdlb: works okay
[18:57] <timing> all windows are on the first workspace again, but that's normal
[18:57] <crdlb> yeah :/
[18:58] <crdlb> there was a patch to fix that, but it was never completed to handle all scenarios
[18:58] <timing> when i logged back in from hibernate just yet, i didn't see anything which hinted to a compiz loading
[18:59] <timing> any other keywords i could try in the bts?
[18:59] <timing> o i tried standby compiz
[18:59] <timing> let's do suspend
[19:09] <timing> bug reported!
[19:09] <timing> bye
[19:16] <RyanPrior> How do I restart the sound server? I'm getting no sound from any apps.
[20:50] <tretle> geser: I have coherence 5 installes and still not working
[20:52] <geser> tretle: have you also python-louie installed?
[20:55] <tretle> ill check now
[20:56] <tretle> geser: yes
[20:56] <tretle> geser: i had rhythmbox working with upnp before the dist-upgrade  -d
[20:57] <geser> sorry, then I don't know, I've only witnessed some discussion about the upnp modules from rythymbox
[21:00] <tretle> ok thanks anyway
[21:40] <gunashekar> !flash
[21:40] <ubotu> To install Flash see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash - Flash 9 is now available in dapper-backports and edgy-backports - See also !Restricted and !Gnash
[21:40] <ubotu> The Flash plugin installation is currently broken. This is due to Adobe changing the tar file that the package downloads. See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=636397 if you need to fix this immediately, but it's recommended to wait for an official fix.
[21:41] <tretle> !theme
[21:41] <ubotu> Find your themes at: http://www.gnome-look.org - http://art.gnome.org - http://www.kde-look.org - http://kubuntu-art.org - http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/58/ - http://www.guistyles.com - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/ - Also see !changethemes and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuEyeCandy
[21:41] <tretle> ubuntu is never gonna change the theme
[21:42] <tretle> lol, i could bet on it
[21:42] <scizzo-> isnt the default theme ok?
[21:44] <tretle> dont see anything wrong with it..... never did.. But every now and then word gets out that theres going to be a new theme... actually good marketing that
[21:44] <tretle> :D :P
[21:55] <DrUnKnMuNkY> has anyone else here had trouble with compiz fusion? i asked in #compiz-fusion but all they said was "don't run hardy"
[22:15] <DarkMageZ> DrUnKnMuNkY, compiz-fusion is working here.
[22:17] <DarkMageZ> DrUnKnMuNkY, i think they are trying to dodge doing their job. they're a bunch of slackers over there. it's either (oh no it's a developer release omgz!1!) or (oh well it's released now, can't release a patch for such a small issue). kick their asses.
[22:21] <tretle> thought u were talking about the art team there :) :P
[22:22] <DarkMageZ> the art team is doing well atm. it's just that gtk isn't good enough to get their beutiful themes working.
[22:25] <tretle> lol
[22:25] <tretle> I must remember that one
[22:25] <tretle> whats wrong with the gtk?
[22:48] <dick-richardson> anyone know what version of alsa will ship with Hardy?
[23:23] <DrUnKnMuNkY> the error i'm getting when i run compiz --replace right now is libGL error: drmMap of framebugger failed (Invalid argument). didn't find too much on google for it
[23:23] <DrUnKnMuNkY> it might be a regression bug of some sort though
[23:25] <RAOF>  
[23:25] <RAOF> Awesome.
[23:25] <RAOF> DrUnKnMuNkY: That's a driver bug, I'd wager.
[23:25] <DarkMageZ> DrUnKnMuNkY, disable framebuffer me thinks.
[23:25] <crdlb> 'framebugger' haha :p
[23:25] <DrUnKnMuNkY> heh didn't notice that
[23:26] <DrUnKnMuNkY> DarkMageZ: how would i do that?
[23:26] <DarkMageZ> i remember i always disable it when i run sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg.
[23:28] <DrUnKnMuNkY> DarkMageZ: select no for "use kernel framebuffer device interface" then? i think i may have already had that
[23:28] <DarkMageZ> exactly
[23:29] <DrUnKnMuNkY> still no luck.. same error
[23:29] <RAOF> You'd need to restart X for that to take effect, obviously.
[23:30] <DrUnKnMuNkY> right.. heh
[23:30] <RAOF> Also, there's *always* going to be a framebuffer, since that's what gets drawn to the screen.
[23:34] <DrUnKnMuNkY> any idea what a drmMap is then?
[23:35] <crdlb> well DRM is the part of the kernel that handles the kernelspace things needed for 3d acceleration to work
[23:36] <RAOF> Direct Rendering Manager.  AKA kernel-level-GL drivers.
[23:36] <RAOF> (And, if you're using nouveau, kernel level 2d drivers)
[23:36] <dick-richardson> anyone know what version of alsa will ship with Hardy?
[23:37] <RAOF> dick-richardson: Probably the most recent release as of feature freeze.
[23:44] <DrUnKnMuNkY> compiz seems to be running now.. i'll add stuff from the old xorg.conf one by one and see what was screwing it up