=== Varka_ is now known as Varka
=== _czessi is now known as Czessi
soren@schedule berlin08:05
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Berlin: 17 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 18 Jan 13:00: MOTU | 23 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu meeting | 23 Jan 23:30: Forum Council | 30 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting08:05
sorenThere you go :)08:05
=== aRyn_ is now known as aRyn
=== Sp4rKy_ is now known as Sp4rKY
=== mdz_ is now known as mdz
=== doko_ is now known as doko
=== asac_ is now known as asac
ubotuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: January 17 2008, 12:07:09 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 1 hour 52 minutes12:07
=== bigon` is now known as bigon
=== pedro__ is now known as pedro_
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
=== _bigon is now known as bigon`
=== bigon` is now known as bigon
=== bigon is now known as bigon`
=== bigon` is now known as bigon
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Development Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Jan 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 23 Jan 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 30 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting
* mvo looks around13:54
* Iuli hides behind mvo13:58
* MacSlow hates Python some more today13:58
MacSloweverybody needs a hobby :)13:59
Keybukok, let's get going14:01
* mvo waves14:02
KeybukI didn't see any agenda items in the activity summaries, did I miss any?14:03
MacSlowKeybuk, gee... I should provide smaller screenshots... I did not think of them showing up in the report like that :)14:03
KeybukMacSlow: heh, that's fine :-)  that's what the report is for14:03
Keybukit's great that they do show up14:03
MacSlowKeybuk, well regarding myself I can only think of the seperate emails regarding conferences I sent you... apart form that... I hate python :)14:04
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
Keybukok, first up, actions from last week14:04
KeybukACTION: pitti/seb128 to investigate seahorse package size and reduce it so it can be seeded.14:04
Keybukhow did that go?14:04
pittia mere rebuild will chop off 2 MB14:05
seb128cdbs depends on fdups was not active14:05
pitti(I fixed cdbs)14:05
seb128so symlinking magic was not working14:05
MacSlowKeybuk, I should have added to my report that I started on fixing the issues with upstream rhythmbox(artdisplay) as they are blocking the work on sparkle and upstream is... busy *shrugg*14:05
pittiremaining issue is to build a shared lib to avoid duplicating lots of code four times in the large binaries14:05
seb128I've been too busy with GNOME 2.21.5 to investigate if there is a static lib there14:05
Keybukpitti: is that code just linking the same source files?14:06
Keybukor is it a library already?14:06
pittihaven't looked yet14:06
seb128doesn't look like a library from a quick look14:06
seb128but I didn't really investigate14:06
Keybukis seahorse still not seeded and gnome-keyring-manager seeded instead?14:06
Keybukok; let's add this to the sprint agenda to deal with there14:07
pittiI can do the seed change today, and we worry about the size reduction a bit later14:07
Keybukseb128: my quick examination was that everything was statically linking a libseahorse.a which wasn't installed14:07
MacSlowhi mpt14:07
mpthello, sorry, got to get used to these simultaneous LP and Ubuntu meetings14:07
seb128pitti: btw speaking about seeding do we need MIR for the things which has been discussed? somebody mailed ubuntu-devel-discuss about those14:07
KeybukI think they should have MIR?14:08
seb128Keybuk: ok, might be, I quickly looked at it during the meeting and not sure now14:08
pittiseb128: well, we should at least have bugs for them, for the record14:08
pittiI checked the packages and they were ok14:08
seb128ok, I'll file bugs later14:09
KeybukACTION: GUADEC and LCA attendance requests14:10
KeybukI've received two volunteers for the former and one for the latter14:10
pittiseb128: cheese already has one, btw (#149275)14:10
seb128pitti: ok, will look at bugs before sending a duplicate anyway ;-)14:10
seb128who is volunteer for GUADEC?14:10
KeybukGUADEC is 7th-12th July in Istanbul, Turkey14:10
* MacSlow would like to go to GUADEC14:10
KeybukLCA is the week immediately after the sprint in Melbourne, Australia14:11
* MacSlow offered to volunteer for LCA, but only if nobody else steps up14:11
KeybukMacSlow: indeed, thanks14:11
MacSlowbecause it literly on the other side of the globe for me *aechtz*14:11
Keybuklast chance for LCA volunteers; GUADEC I'd like to have a list by the sprint, so if you'd like to go, please do let me know ASAP so I can decide14:12
MacSlowdon't we have any down-under person closer?14:12
KeybukMacSlow: surprisingly not in the distro team14:12
Keybukand we're actually sponsors of LCA this year14:12
MithrandirKeybuk: beep.  StevenK is distro, but he'll be in portland that week.14:12
MacSlowKeybuk, any pending hires down-under before LCA? ;)14:12
Keybukah, sorry, yes; he's not there14:12
Keybukok, next topic14:13
KeybukSprint Planning14:13
MacSlowI would add the still not working browser-by-default for ipod/mpt in rb14:14
MacSlowI've been in contact with upstream a bit regarding that14:15
Keybukplease add any agenda items ASAP14:15
KeybukI'm going to be busy all-day wednesday, as the team leads are getting management training14:16
Keybukand I'll also set some time that week to speak to each of you about your specs and plans for 8.1014:16
* pitti will add "release 6.06.2" to the agenda14:16
Keybukpitti: mdz would like a couple of hours of your time to discuss how 6.06.2 has taken up your time14:16
pittiright, just got the invitation today14:17
Keybuknext item14:17
Keybukit falls to our team to maintain this, including handling the incoming bugs14:18
KeybukI realise that it's slightly out of most of our knowledge14:18
Keybukbut we need a volunteer to learn how to maintain it and be the bug contact14:18
* pitti hides, being TIL14:18
MacSlowKeybuk, Matthew Garret wrote that initally?14:18
KeybukMacSlow: yeah, and I've hacked on it too14:19
pittiKeybuk: touched-it-last (for some sponsoring of a contributor)14:19
Keybukmost of the hard problems are svgalib/bogl problems14:19
pittiyeah, took me some hours to fix that 'unreadable text' problem right before gutsy release14:19
pittibit hairy code14:19
MacSlowKeybuk, well I know that some fine day we will hopefully be albe to kick it as we'll have Xorg up all the way from boot-up... if I recall some Xorg-folks correctly.14:19
pittiX in initramfs?14:20
MacSlowbut that certainly does not help current usplash maintainance I know14:20
MacSlowpitti, yes14:20
MacSlowpitti, I would have tried that already myself... but I'm totally filled with stuff14:20
MacSlowpitti, I talked very briefly with Kristian Hoegsberg about this some time last year14:21
Keybukpitti, MacSlow: could you both look through it at the sprint?14:21
MacSlowto be truely solid it will need kenrel-level video-mode switchign or something... don't fully recall all details14:21
MacSlow*sigh* I try :)14:22
Keybukok, please add yourselves as bug contacts14:22
pittiugh, ok14:22
MacSlowwürg³ :)14:22
pittiMacSlow: 85 bugs to triage for each of us :)14:23
Keybukdid anyone see anything of note in the activity reports they want to bring up?14:24
MacSlowpitti, added bullet-point about usplash to sprint-agend for both of us14:24
mvoI'm looking for someone who can help me understanding the glx/dri/X interface14:24
MacSlowmvo, Kristian Hoegsberg... although RedHat... but seriously he knows towns about it14:25
MacSlowmvo, or Micheal Dänzer from TungstenGraphics14:25
MacSlowmvo, I cannot (yet) offer myself14:25
MacSlowbut that'll change hopefully14:26
MacSlowmvo, I know some of GLX and X... but next to nothing about DRI14:26
mvothanks, michael dänzer sounds like a good idea14:26
mvodo you know if he is around in irc?14:26
MacSlowmvo, you'll find Michael Dänzer on #xorg-devel on FreeNode-IRC under the nick MrCooper14:27
mvoaha, thanks14:27
MacSlowmvo, Kristian Hoegsberg is there too as krh... just in case14:27
pittijust for sprint planning, does anyone have a laptop with: nvidia graphics, ati graphics, winsoftmodem, broadcom wifi?14:28
seb128none of those14:28
pittiI'd like to do some driver-manager testing14:28
mvoI have one with ati14:28
MacSlowmvo, probably Stephane Marchesin (handle: marcheu) too... he's the main developer of nouveau14:28
pittiI know a lot of you guys have softmodems (at the last sprint, at least)14:28
Keybukpitti: this has a non-working modem14:28
pittiunfortunately my dell doesn't have one14:28
MacSlowpitti, nope... all intel here14:29
pittiwell, at least not one that is compatible with sl-modem-daemon14:29
pitticjwatson has a bcm43xx, AFAIR14:29
tedgI have one with nVidia.14:29
pitticool, thanks14:29
* MacSlow never used the modem in his laptop14:29
tedgWhich means that for some reason the drop shadows in Compiz are either white or pink...14:29
Keybukpitti: you have the entire office laptop supply at your disposal14:29
MacSlowI don't even know what kind of device it is14:29
cjwatsonyes, I have a Broadcom14:29
KeybukJane loves it when we steal her laptop for testing14:29
Keybukok, Any Other Business?14:30
pittiKeybuk: ok, I prepare a speech about Totally Rad Hardware Support for getting Jane's :)14:30
seb128Keybuk: yes14:30
MacSlowtedg, the decorator doesn't work on your nvidia? Uff!14:30
Keybukseb128: go14:30
mvotedg: still with the latest compiz?14:31
mvotedg: it work on my nvidia card here14:31
seb128Keybuk: rather just a note, I looked at the new gdm again some days ago, there is no way it'll be ready for hardy14:31
seb128Keybuk: still no graphical greeter, no gdmsetup, no gdmflexiserver, no autologic, no settings migration14:31
KeybukMacSlow: this isn't terrible news?14:31
tedgmvo: Yeah, just checked, seems I have the latest.  Perhaps it's some setting.14:31
MacSlowtedg, that never had issues here either with the decorator and nvidia14:32
mvotedg: we can have a look together on the sprint14:32
tedgThe pink is very feminine -- perhaps we should make "Linux for Ladies" ;)14:32
MacSlowKeybuk, gl stuff not working on nvidia... that's very grim news for me... I love nvidia for their good GL usually14:32
KeybukMacSlow: I mean about gdm14:32
seb128Keybuk: and it get almost no testing, redhat has a version from december, mandriva and suse have not updated yet apparently and debian and ubuntu don't have it either14:33
MacSlowKeybuk, well the new gdm (face-browser) is targetted for later anyway14:34
Keybukit's on my 8.10 list ;)14:34
seb128that's really the bad cycle for a lts :/14:34
seb128nautilus is really tricky14:34
MacSlowKeybuk, that's were I want to have it in fully polished state too... with all the nice MeMaker and cheese integration mentioned in the spec14:35
seb128everybody is going with the rewrittal for GNOME 2.22 but that will a though update14:36
tedgDoes anyone else have their file dialogs taking a long time to load?  10-20 seconds long?14:36
tedgI think it might because I have a bunch of SSH shares that are in my bookmarks bar.14:36
seb128at least not me and we got no bug about it14:36
MacSlowtedg, gee... no!14:36
MacSlowtedg, only have to ssh-shares14:37
seb128it should not try to do anything on those it you don't try to access a share14:37
tedgOkay, I'll look into it further, using files causes compiz desaturate my apps.14:37
tedgSo, if you get an attachment from me, you know the pain it caused ;)14:38
Keybukany other any other business? :)14:38
MacSlowpitti, I added the usplash thing higher up in the list14:39
Keybukok, sorry, I missed an agenda item14:39
MacSlowpitti, I deleted the entry at the bottom (which I assume you added)14:39
Keybuk * Sebastien Bacher (seb128)14:39
Keybuk * Keep tracker enabled for LTS?14:39
Keybukmdz has raised the question of whether we should keep tracker enabled for the LTS14:39
pittiMacSlow: I didn't14:39
Keybukgiven that it's "causing problems"14:39
seb128what problems?14:39
MacSlowpitti, maybe it was Keybuk14:39
seb128did we get lot of bad reviews or comments due to it on gutsy?14:40
MacSlowwhat tracker-problems?14:40
Keybukseb128: performance problems, using lots of memory/cpu/io, etc.14:40
seb128I've not read a lot of user complains recently14:40
MacSlowI it works as expect here14:40
seb128well, now it has an icon which makes easy to know what is going on etc14:40
MacSlowI only don't like the tracker-search-reasult dialog14:41
MacSlownot looking very HIG-compliant14:41
Keybuklet's get some more feedback then14:41
pittihm, that icon is annoying IMHO14:41
seb128pitti: the icon or the libnotify excessive use?14:41
Keybukif you're happy that user feedback is good, it may be that mdz is having other problems14:41
seb128I've no issue with the icon, I don't like the bubbles though14:41
pittiseb128: both actually14:41
seb128Keybuk: not really, I was rather asking14:42
pittiwe already have deskbar applet, no need for yet another icon14:42
mdzKeybuk: the last time you were here, you were killall'ing trackerd too14:42
seb128I don't know we have anybody looking closely to tracker bugs, etc14:42
seb128I've to admin it works correctly on my new laptop where I've copied things progressively14:42
pittiupstream himself looks after them (or had done so in gutsy, at least)14:42
* mpt didn't realize Tracker had any UI outside of Deskbar :-)14:42
seb128I've stopped it on my desktop because the initial hit is really annoying14:42
mdzit seems to churn every time my desktop is idle, even though I am not adding a lot of new data to index14:42
MacSlowseb128, you mean the cat-claw with the magnifier-glas?14:42
Keybukmdz: it might be worth checking whether you have a bug that affected people that upgraded through gutsy development14:43
mdzit has always seemed odd to me that deskbar doesn't search immediately14:43
seb128mdz: maybe you get lot of mails to index?14:43
Keybukwhere it would continually index14:43
mdzyou enter your search terms, and it presents you with a list of options for where you'd like to search14:43
mdzso it's always a two-step process to actually find anything14:43
MacSlowmpt, it does... the way search results are presented... btw... Deskbar only adds one entry for actually calling the tracker-search tool14:44
KeybukI thought we switched to the live results?14:44
mptyeah, that's a bit lame14:44
mdzso my thoughts on tracker based on my personal experience are that it incurs a high overhead for the user without exposing much in the way of interesting functionality14:44
* MacSlow is still using Gutsy here on his desktop14:44
* mdz glares at MacSlow14:45
* MacSlow goes and sits in the corner :)14:45
KeybukMacSlow: so am I14:45
mdzKeybuk: live results for a decent subset of the available search backends would make deskbar a lot more useful14:45
Keybukmdz: when did you last reinstall your desktop?14:45
seb128mdz: not sure how useful users find it, maybe we should start a discussion on ubuntu-devel-discuss about that?14:45
MacSlowmdz, indeed14:45
mdzKeybuk: never14:45
Keybukmdz: it really sounds like you have a lot of old settings14:45
* tedg wants MacSlow to enjoy pink drop shadows too :)14:45
KeybukI'm pretty sure the deskbar defaults are live search now14:45
seb128Keybuk: we actived that in gutsy yes14:46
mdzI only ever installed this machine once14:46
MacSlowtedg, I can set the color of the drop-shaodws to pink :)14:46
Keybukso you must have installed deskbar while the default was non-live search14:46
mdzand I didn't change the preferences afaik14:46
mdzKeybuk: so? if the default changed, surely I should get the new default14:46
mptAs the user base increases, an increasing proportion of users will have old settings14:46
Keybukmdz: no... we've never done that14:46
mdzok, so turning on live search makes it do something, but still doesn't show me the results14:47
Keybukbecause we have no way of telling whether you didn't change the default because you were happy with it or not14:47
seb128Keybuk: well, if there is no user settings the default system changes are used usually14:47
mdzthe only part of the window which is visible says "search yahoo, search amazon, etc."14:47
mdzthe tracker results are way at the bottom where they can't be seen14:47
Keybukseb128: yeah, but opening a preferences window is enough to copy them14:47
seb128mdz: right, that's the normal situation and I agree it's buggy14:47
Keybukmdz: that's the ordering in the window where you enabled the live search14:47
Keybukok, let's look at the usability of this at the sprint14:47
mdzI think that if users aren't seeing the benefits of tracker, we should disable the indexing by default so that they aren't paying the price anyway14:48
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
seb128mdz: right, how do we figure? start a discussion on the lists?14:48
Keybukmdz: shouldn't we first see if we can make sure that users see the benefits?14:48
mdzexposing the functionality better would of course be superior, but that may not be feasible14:48
mdzKeybuk: my statement doesn't preclude that14:48
pittilike, disable it by default and enable it once the user tries the first search?14:48
mdzseb128: that would be a good start14:49
mdzseb128: another good idea would be to review it as a user experience14:49
mdzand do basic usability testing14:49
MacSlowtedg, actually I did that once... very early on... http://macslow.thepimp.net/shots/colored-drop-shadows.png wrote a patch for compiz to do that :)14:49
seb128we can do that next week maybe14:49
MacSlowtedg, intentially :)14:49
mdzdeskbar looks pretty easy to customize14:49
mdzso if deskbar became a great interface to tracker, it would probably be worthwhile14:50
mptI'll put it on the agenda then14:50
seb128ok, let's work on making that better14:50
mptMacSlow, your windows are bleeding14:50
Keybukas are my eyes14:50
MacSlowmpt, jimmac wante to "kill" me for posting such a screenshot :)14:50
MacSlowI just wanted to show that one could now color the drop-shadow14:51
MacSlowthus I used an extreme color14:51
ograMacSlow, so you could also whiten it on black BG :)14:51
MacSlowogra, indeed14:51
ogracool hack14:51
MacSlowogra, you can to that today still14:52
tedgMacSlow: Can you make the drop shadows pulse with the music out of RB? ;)14:52
MacSlowtedg, now that would be totally useless :)14:52
ograbut sexy14:52
* MacSlow wants client-side drawn window-decorations14:52
seb128Keybuk: does the decision to use the new nautilus in hardy or not has an impact on your team work? We discussed that during the platform meeting yesterday and that's really tricky14:53
MacSlowthat would make a lot of cool things possible and save artist a lot of headaches14:53
tedgseb128: Would that mean no GTK+ and gio, or just nautilus?14:54
seb128tedg: GTK+ has no change for that14:54
seb128gio is already in the hardy glib14:54
seb128gvfs should be promoted that's no issue14:54
seb128libgnomeui has a gio fileselector variant now14:54
seb128all that is alright14:54
seb128what is tricky is nautilus14:55
seb128either we keep the old non maintained code using gnome-vfs14:55
seb128or we switch to the new one, what all the other distros seem to do, but that's new code and everything is not ready yet14:56
MacSlowthis LTS has a very unfortunate timing I think considering the changes going on in GNOME14:56
seb128the issue is that upstream is going with it and integrating other desktop component to use gvfs now14:56
MacSlowisn't gio meant to replace gvfs?14:57
seb128MacSlow: things like the bookmarks and gnome-panel places, they will list gvfs shares now14:57
tedggvfs replaces gnome-vfs.  gio wraps gvfs.14:57
MacSlowstill some parts in gnome write new code using a soon deprecated API?14:57
Keybukseb128: I don't think we're depending on it14:57
MacSlowtedg, ah ok14:58
MacSlowtedg, thanks for the heads up14:58
seb128MacSlow: alright14:58
seb128Keybuk: alright, rather14:58
tedggio is the API in GTK+, which allows for backends, one of which is gvfs.14:58
seb128gio is in glib rather14:59
Keybukok, I have another meeting now15:01
pittiseems the remainders could be discussed in #ubuntu-desktop?15:03
MacSlowhi dholbach15:03
seb128pitti: right, not a lot to discuss still though, need testing rather15:04
* mvo waves15:04
MacSlowpitti, seb128: Am I needed for the remaining issue to be discussed?15:05
seb128MacSlow: there is no issue to discuss so no, thanks ;-)15:05
pittithe stuff above is over my head, too15:05
pittis/over/above/, I think15:05
MacSlowok, I'll return to rb-fixing then15:05
MacSlowso long15:06
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Jan 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 23 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 23 Jan 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 30 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting
=== bigon is now known as bigon`
=== bigon` is now known as bigon
=== bigon is now known as bigon`
=== sflla1 is now known as sfllaw
=== bigon` is now known as bigon
=== bigon is now known as bigon`
=== bigon` is now known as bigon
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
seeleWeb Images Maps News Shopping Gmail more ▼22:01
seeleoops mt22:01
=== johnc4511 is now known as johnc4510

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!