[00:38] <bspencer> if I want to get the source for cheese, how do I do that?
[00:38] <bspencer> what is the /etc/apt/sources.list value?
[00:40] <amitk> bspencer: add a new line with deb-src instead of deb. everything else remains the same
[00:40] <bspencer> deb-src http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports gutsy main restricted universe multiverse
[00:40] <bspencer> ?
[00:41] <amitk> should be good
[00:41] <bspencer> or maybe deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu ...   I'll try that
[00:41] <amitk> TeTeT: hey Torsten
[00:42] <TeTeT> amitk: Hi Amit, staying up late?
[00:42] <amitk> TeTeT: 3rd night in a row now
[00:42] <TeTeT> amitk: ouch, deadline approaching? 
[00:42] <amitk> TeTeT: how are you doing?
[00:43] <TeTeT> amitk: doing fine, currently in Taiwan, visiting partners
[00:43] <amitk> TeTeT: yeah.... trying to get graphics drivers on UME to behave with our kernel
[00:43] <TeTeT> amitk: I've read about poulsbo on the mailing list
[00:43] <amitk> TeTeT: good for you! You aren't going to be in London next week, are you?
[00:44] <TeTeT> amitk: no, I'm not coming for the sprint. Would I be needed there?
[00:44] <amitk> TeTeT: not really, just wondering if there is a coincidence
[00:45] <amitk> TeTeT: moving back to Germany soon?
[00:46] <TeTeT> amitk: I need to re-think my move back, relationship troubles
[00:47] <amitk> TeTeT: sorry about that
[07:11] <dholbach> good morning
[11:56] <alek_desk> amitk, there is a meeting today, right?
[11:56] <amitk> alek_desk: yes there is
[11:56] <alek_desk> amitk, thanks.
[15:01] <Mithrandir> hm
[15:01]  * Mithrandir ponders how exactly to change ubuntu-meta for just mobile.  I guess we can use the -mobile branch and point our PPA package to that.
[15:08] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ^^; it seems like update.cfg points to p.u.c/~cjwatson/seeds; that's just a seed mirror, right?
[15:08] <Mithrandir> so I should be able to point it to LP?
[15:08]  * Hobbsee thought that was a redirect
[15:11] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: update uses --bzr by default, so we use the [hardy/bzr] section for that not [hardy]
[15:11] <cjwatson> so in fact we use bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/
[15:11] <Mithrandir> ahkay.
[15:12] <cjwatson> if you need to change it for just mobile, I think I'd recommend a different source package
[15:12] <Mithrandir> why?  It'll be in a PPA.
[15:15] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ^
[15:15] <Mithrandir> (sorry if you're busy, just thinking you might be paying less attention to this channel than others. :-)
[15:16] <cjwatson> oh, PPA, sure
[15:16] <cjwatson> I don't care then :)
[15:17] <Mithrandir> ok, good.  I'd be insane to do this in the main archive, agreed. :-)
[15:19] <cjwatson> and indeed, I only really follow this channel when highlighted
[15:24] <lool> Mithrandir: Is NM (daemon) running though?
[15:25] <Mithrandir> lool: yes
[15:25]  * Mithrandir blames dbus
[15:26] <lool> Mithrandir: Does restarting dbus help?
[15:27] <Mithrandir> no, that breaks things further; hald doesn't want to restart and it goes downhill from there
[15:28] <lool> Ah got the hal issue too
[15:29] <Mithrandir> rebooting fixed that, though
[15:29] <Mithrandir> and stevenk's fix broke my hostname. :-/
[15:30] <lool> Not easy to fix when you can't sudo  :-/
[15:30] <Mithrandir> boot with break=bottom works, though
[15:33]  * Mithrandir is lazy and just reinstalls
[16:02] <Mithrandir> *whine*; now I don't get any applets any more.
[16:06] <Mithrandir> ah, unwhine.  It was just old packages.
[16:06] <Mithrandir> nm-applet works now that I twiddled the config slightly.
[16:06] <Mithrandir> it seems like it doesn't think we're on the console
[16:07] <asac> Mithrandir: hmm ... that would explain the issue amitk complained about the other day
[16:07] <Mithrandir> yup
[16:08] <asac> Mithrandir: do you have /bin/check-foreground-console ?
[16:08] <Mithrandir> yes
[16:09] <asac> and does it succeed?
[16:10] <Mithrandir> njet
[16:56] <Mithrandir> good $time_of_day everybody.
[16:56] <Mithrandir> davidm,lool,amitk,agoliveira: around for the meeting?
[16:56] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Yep
[16:56] <amitk> yup
[16:57] <alek_desk> hello
[16:59] <Mithrandir> hiya alek
[17:00] <alek_desk> hoya:) Mithrandir
[17:00] <Mithrandir> #startmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:00. The chair is Mithrandir.
[17:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:01] <agoliveira> Coup d'État? :)
[17:01] <Mithrandir> rustyl: is Mauri around and planning to attend?
[17:01] <Mithrandir> nah, davidm asked me to drive today.
[17:01] <Mithrandir> and since I've only had tea to drink, I think I'm fit.
[17:01] <davidm> agoliveira, yep what he said
[17:01] <Mithrandir> well, tea and water.
[17:02] <agoliveira> You guys are boring :)
[17:02] <rustyl> i'm online, doing multiple things... so slow response
[17:02] <ToddBrandt> here
[17:02] <Mithrandir> hiya Don_Johnson
[17:02] <Don_Johnson> I'm here too.
[17:02] <Mithrandir> and hiya ToddBrandt, Bob
[17:03] <bspencer> hi
[17:03] <davidm> OK for the first open action we have ChickenCutlass here so we can go
[17:03] <Mithrandir> sure
[17:03] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] Michael Frey to test the ext3 image boot speed before weeks end.
[17:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Michael Frey to test the ext3 image boot speed before weeks end. 
[17:04] <Mithrandir> ChickenCutlass: how did that go?
[17:04] <ChickenCutlass> Tried it -- no faster
[17:04] <davidm> Interesting, would have expected some speedup.
[17:04] <ChickenCutlass> same performance as shashfs
[17:04] <ChickenCutlass> squashfs
[17:04] <ChickenCutlass> takes up lots more space however :)
[17:04] <Mithrandir> naturally.
[17:05] <mdz> ChickenCutlass: is the startup process still CPU limited according to bootchart?
[17:05] <Mithrandir> do you have bootcharts to compare the two?
[17:05] <ChickenCutlass> no -- I do not yet have bootcharts -- I did the stopwatch approach
[17:06] <agoliveira> ChickenCutlass: That's odd. There should be any improvment exactly due the CPU limitation I saw in the charts.
[17:06] <davidm> ChickenCutlass, can you run bootchart on the ext3 boot so we can see exactly what is happening?
[17:06] <ChickenCutlass> I will build some charts so we can see
[17:06] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: your IO load goes up, though.
[17:06] <mdz> agoliveira: there's no particular reason to believe that squashfs is what's on the CPU, that was just a guess
[17:07] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Exactly, maybe it freed the CPU but saturated the I/O
[17:07] <smagoun> agoliveira: one theory was that squashfs required CPU, so load would go down when switching ti ext3.
[17:07] <lool> agoliveira: You have the URL to your bootchart available easily?
[17:07] <agoliveira> lool: No, sorry. I sent an email with them and deleted I guess.
[17:07] <Mithrandir> [ACTION] ChickenCutlass to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3
[17:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ChickenCutlass to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 
[17:08] <Mithrandir> any other input on that topic, or move on?
[17:08] <davidm> agoliveira, where did you send the email I'll find it
[17:08] <mdz> move on
[17:08] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] bspencer to checked to see if get tags tagging has occurred when making a release.
[17:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  bspencer to checked to see if get tags tagging has occurred when making a release. 
[17:08] <davidm> move on
[17:08] <lool> http://diemicrosoftdie.com/gutsy-20071210-1.png 404
[17:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://diemicrosoftdie.com/gutsy-20071210-1.png 404 
[17:08] <mdz> get tags tagging?
[17:08] <Mithrandir> could somebody please explain that sentence?  It seems to lack some words or a spell check or something. :-)
[17:09] <agoliveira> davidm: Right after the tests. I'll check later.
[17:09] <bspencer> we talked about it 
[17:09] <lool> The action item was presumably to check whether tags are actually happening for new releases
[17:09] <Mithrandir> lool: presumably, yes.
[17:09] <agoliveira> Ah... sorry, I sent an email with the links. I'll check the backups and try to put it up again.
[17:09] <Mithrandir> bspencer: have you checked?  and if so, what was the result?
[17:10] <bspencer> and plan to do this 
[17:10] <bspencer> sorry...distracted
[17:10] <bspencer> yes, we have spotty coverage to date
[17:11] <bspencer> but will tag these things as discussed previously
[17:12] <bspencer> ok, 100% focused here now
[17:12] <Mithrandir> I'll give you an action item to report back on whether it has improved over the next week
[17:12] <bspencer> we want to tag the releases of each project when they are released
[17:12] <Mithrandir> ok?
[17:12] <bspencer> Mithrandir: sounds find
[17:12] <bspencer> e
[17:13] <Mithrandir> [ACTION] bspencer to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case.
[17:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case. 
[17:13] <Mithrandir> hiya Mauri
[17:13] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] bryce and amitk to provide verbose emails to bspencer about issues surronding Tungsten. (complete)
[17:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  bryce and amitk to provide verbose emails to bspencer about issues surronding Tungsten. (complete) 
[17:13] <Mithrandir> this has happened, I believe.
[17:13] <amitk> yes
[17:13] <bspencer> I received many emails on the subject
[17:13] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: hi
[17:13] <Mithrandir> however, we are still stuck with a broken -psb driver on Hardy.
[17:14] <Mithrandir> amitk: can you give us a bit more information on your findings?
[17:15] <amitk> Basically, while the psb X driver tries to acquire a DRI lock, it freezes
[17:15] <Mithrandir> are there anybody we could set up a conference call with, at intel, who could help us debug this problem?
[17:16] <agoliveira> davidm: http://diemicrosoftdie.com/charts.html
[17:16] <bspencer> rob__: robr_ubuntu robr2  -- you on the call?
[17:16] <amitk> the problem is in the kernel PSB driver according to current findings
[17:16] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: Let me check with Rob Rhoads to see how much work he did with our 2.6.24 kernel.  
[17:16] <Mithrandir> I see the same problem with the moblin 2.6.24 kernel, fwiw
[17:16] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: some folks in our group are in another meeting right now
[17:16] <mjg59> I've some concerns about the interaction between the -psb driver and ACPI, but I believe this is a separate issue
[17:16] <mawhalen> is Don on?
[17:16] <mjg59> I'm looking at improving the in-kernel ACPI video support to the point where -psb can just use that
[17:16] <amitk> I have tried to use the moblin kernel configs on our kernel to see if there is a configuration issue, but the issue still remains
[17:17] <mawhalen> Don_Johnson: ping
[17:17] <Mithrandir> amitk: not really surprising given that the moblin kernels are broken too, at least for me.
[17:17] <mawhalen> inuka_desk: ping
[17:17] <mdz> mawhalen: should we reschedule?
[17:17] <Don_Johnson> I'm here, just catching up
[17:18] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: Inuka on our team is now responsible for the gfx integration.  I'll start inviting him to this meeting.
[17:18] <Mithrandir> mawhalen: which time zone is he in?
[17:18] <Mithrandir> (Inuka is a he?)
[17:18] <mawhalen> Don_Johnson: We might want to setup a meeting with Waldo, Rob and Amit.  Not sure if Waldo is still working on gfx.  
[17:19] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: Inuka is a he, he is here in Oregon.
[17:19] <mdz> mawhalen: that's helpful for the future, though we would like to get this particular issue resolved sooner.  who can we talk to who has more familiarity with this driver?
[17:19] <amitk> currently I am digging into interaction of the X driver and the kernel driver. Someone at Intel who is familiar with these drivers would speed up the debugging a lot.
[17:20] <Don_Johnson> mawhalen: I'll check with Waldo to see if we can set some thing up.
[17:20] <Mithrandir> ideally, today.
[17:20] <pat_mcgowan> Don_Johnson, any chance Tobin could help out
[17:21] <Don_Johnson> pat_mcgowan: Tobin isn't familiar with the internal workings of the graphics drivers.
[17:22] <alek_desk> Mithrandir, but Moblin kernel 2.6.24 has a workable psb-kmd module
[17:22] <Mithrandir> alek_desk: doesn't work for me with hardy.
[17:22] <alek_desk> hmm...
[17:22] <Mithrandir> (verified two days ago)
[17:22] <lool> Could be a race triggerred by libdrm / xorg but only from hardy?
[17:22] <Mithrandir> I haven't pried deeply into it, but it seems to get to the same point as the ubuntu kernel.
[17:23] <bspencer> mdz: mawhalen and I will have to follow up to get someone who can help quickly.
[17:23] <Mithrandir> if you guys have something that works for you, it might be interesting to see what happens if we put our latest kernel in there and try.
[17:23] <smagoun> maybe a dumb question, does the hardy libdrm include intel's patches?
[17:23] <Mithrandir> smagoun: this is with the libdrm I got from bryce which supposedly contains all the necessary patches.
[17:24] <Mithrandir> I have not verified that, as I am not familiar with the code.
[17:25] <Mithrandir> should we take this after the meeting?  It seems we're not making more progress here.
[17:25] <davidm> Earlier in the week bryce said he had applied all of the intel changes
[17:25] <davidm> Yes, lets take it off line
[17:25] <mdz> is bryce not here?
[17:25] <Mithrandir> bryce: are you around?
[17:25] <bspencer> from our side let's grab waldo and rob for the discussion.  Inuka can come and listen too.
[17:25] <mawhalen> Mithrandir: right, we don't have the correct people here
[17:26] <mawhalen> I can synch with Rob as soon as he is off his meeting
[17:26] <Mithrandir> ok, good
[17:26] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] mawhalen Don_Johnson davidm to meet off line on schedule issues (complete)
[17:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  mawhalen Don_Johnson davidm to meet off line on schedule issues (complete) 
[17:26] <Mithrandir> this is complete and done and nothing needs to be reported here?
[17:27] <Mithrandir> if so, the agenda is empty.
[17:27] <Don_Johnson> Yes, I believe it is done, and nothing needs to be reported here.
[17:27] <Mithrandir> anybody have anything more that needs discussion?
[17:28] <Mithrandir> going once, going twice.
[17:28] <davidm> Don_Johnson, your later call specific to the customer issues, correct?
[17:29] <Don_Johnson> Yes, we will be talking customer specific issues
[17:29] <davidm> OK, thanks
[17:29] <Mithrandir> ok, thanks everybody.  Adjourned.
[17:29] <Mithrandir> #endmeeting
[17:29] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:29.
[17:29] <Mithrandir> that was nice and short.
[17:29] <agoliveira> Best... meeting... ever... :)
[17:29] <amitk> mawhalen: when can we know about who in Intel to talk to about the graphics drivers?
[17:29] <Mithrandir> mawhalen: when is rob's meeting done?
[17:30] <mawhalen> Not sure when Rob is done, I'll have him get ahold of amitk as soon as I find out.
[17:30] <Mithrandir> great.
[17:30] <amitk> thanks mawhalen
[17:32] <GrueMaster> So, what's the key to getting a Hardy build in MIC?
[17:34] <Mithrandir> GrueMaster: changing the default sources.list entries is at least one way
[17:36] <GrueMaster> Ok.  Little background.  I have a cron that runs daily to pull MIC from git, then generate a daily Moblin-gutsy build.  It has the fsets for ubuntu-hardy as well.  What do I need to change (and why isn't it in MIC).
[17:38] <bspencer> > GrueMaster said:  d why isn't it in MIC
[17:38] <bspencer> good question.  If we're missing something useful send the maintainer a note or a patch
[17:39] <Mithrandir> I believe the plan is to provide multiple platforms which default to different distroreleases
[17:39] <lool> ATM, Ubuntu's MIC pulls only from Ubuntu while upstream's MIC pulls from Ubuntu + moblin.org's APT repos
[17:39] <GrueMaster> yes, and?
[17:39] <GrueMaster> so?
[17:40] <GrueMaster> Actually, it ignores moblin.org if you select the ubuntu fsets only.
[17:40] <lool> The fsets differ slightly in MIC upstream and in Ubuntu
[17:41] <GrueMaster> I understand.  Let's fix it so people using MIC can actually use MIC.
[17:42] <Mithrandir> robr: just the guy we're looking for.  Can you talk to Amit about our current headaches on the kernel DRI bits?
[17:43] <lool> GrueMaster: I would be happy to work on taking all our fixes upstream
[17:43] <lool> GrueMaster: Would you like us to discuss the delta and address it now?
[17:44] <cwong1> Mithrandir:  I have an issue with flashplugin-nonfree and need to discuss with you. I was going to bring it up in the meeting but was chatting with Asac. 
[17:45] <Mithrandir> cwong1: please shoot.
[17:45] <amitk> robr: hi
[17:46] <robr> amitk: hi
[17:46] <cwong1> Mithrandir: the current flashplugin-nonfree package has a bad checksum that caused the installation to failed.
[17:46] <GrueMaster> I just need to be able to get a working Hardy build so I can start addressing some of the build issues others are seeing in PSB
[17:47] <Mithrandir> cwong1: hm, that's something we should fix
[17:47] <lool> GrueMaster: The easiest way would be to upgrade your hardy installation and use hardy's MIC
[17:47] <amitk> robr: have you followed the thread on ubuntu-mobile ML? Subject: Backtrace
[17:47] <cwong1> Mithrandir: Asac has uploaded a fix a while back but have to rolled back. The reason is that the new flashplugin only work with Firefox/IE and will crash konque and opera.
[17:48] <GrueMaster> No, that would break my other development systems
[17:48] <robr> amitk: not yet, but i will try to catch up
[17:48] <cwong1> Mithrandir: Can asac upload the fix again? But this mean opera and konqer user will not be able to use the flashplugin.
[17:48] <Mithrandir> cwong1: uh, ok.  It seems better to be able to install it on some, but not all systems, than on none?
[17:48] <GrueMaster> I don't have enough platforms to dedicate to everyone's individual changes that don't get sync'd mainstream.
[17:49] <cwong1> Mithrandir: I agree.  I will let asac know then.
[17:49] <Mithrandir> cwong1: worst case, we can put it in the ppa
[17:49] <cwong1> Mithrandir: ok. thanks.
[17:52] <amitk> inuka: robr: Mithrandir: davidm: Can you all join #psb-hardy to continue this discussion?
[17:56] <amitk> bryce: GrueMaster: you too if interested ^^^
[18:11] <asac> Mithrandir: will upload flashplugin to mobile ppa ... how does the versioning scheme look like?
[18:12] <Mithrandir> asac: append ~710um1 or ~804um1 
[18:13] <Mithrandir> (depending on gutsy or hardy)
[18:22] <asac> Mithrandir: ok thanks
[18:24] <asac> Mithrandir: when do you expect to go back to hardy?
[18:24] <Mithrandir> are you uploading this to the gutsy ppa or the hardy ppa or both?
[18:25] <lool> GrueMaster: I was told that perhaps what you wanted is to create a project / config in git MIC to pull from Ubuntu hardy + ppa; is that what you would like us to work on?
[18:25] <asac> just <= gutsy is affected
[18:25] <asac> so just gutsy ppa
[18:26] <Mithrandir> asac: ok, thanks.  We're looking at moving to hardy, but gfx is currently busticated.
[18:27] <GrueMaster> What I need is either a saved project that someone else has generated, or the ability to generate a working (sans video driver) hardy image in MIC.  I also need to keep MIC pointing at moblin.org for moblin snapshot builds, plus gutsy snapshots for other people I support.
[18:27] <GrueMaster> My current priority is to work on Beta 6 drivers for integration testing.
[18:27] <asac> Mithrandir: is there any policy on what can be pushed to that ppa? or just "everything thats needed" ? e.g. could we upload latest xulrunner-1.9 and could we use system-cairo for reducing memory footprint (would require new libcairo)
[18:28] <Mithrandir> asac: all the stuff that's needed, yes.  Please make sure you don't break builds though
[18:28] <Mithrandir> mjg59: do you know how I can convince pam_foreground our mobile session actually is in the foreground?  My attempts at using openvt didn't really help.
[18:28] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Oh, I guess you never log in through pam...
[18:28] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I do su - ume -c ...
[18:28] <mjg59> Hm. Not off-hand. It's been a while since I touched that.
[18:29] <Mithrandir> 'k
[20:36] <Mithrandir> StevenK: you broke ume-config-crown-beach when you called gconftool in the postinst without making sure gconf2 is installed first..
[20:36] <StevenK> Oh, gah.
[20:37] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Shall I'll fix the both of them (samsung-q1-ultra-config would be too) after the meeting?
[20:37] <StevenK> s/I'll/I/
[20:44] <Mithrandir> please