[00:00] claydoh: didn't help.. actualy it was pretty fast except for restoring windows after minimize.. and i alt-tab a lot [00:00] ah.. no matter [00:01] ahhh === \sh is now known as \sh_away [00:19] gn8 [00:21] anyone able to send a text message for me? [00:30] Sure [00:30] Riddelll: Where too [00:33] hmm, I wonder if I can even get the number [00:34] I'll be in and out, so if I'm around when you do, I'll let you know I got it. [00:37] ScottK: /msged [00:41] Riddelll: I got no /msg [00:41] * ScottK needs to run anyway [00:42] +358 503122448 "muse is dying" [00:42] silly freenode [00:42] * ScottK tries [00:42] Riddelll: don't worry, phone costs keep spammers off mobile phones [00:44] I think I sent it [00:44] thanks ScottK [00:56] apachelogger_: your patch for the wallpaper doesn't work btw [00:57] nixternal: cool [00:57] * apachelogger_ is wondering why though [00:57] Riddelll: I sure hope muse isn't a person [00:57] bbiab, gotta go eat some pizza [00:58] pizza... [00:58] :( [00:58] nixternal: fortunately not [01:00] * apachelogger_ is now in a quite euphoric mood and starts rolling of amarok 1.80 [01:01] nixternal: btw. you're on planetkde already [01:15] oooh looks like the kplayer license problem will be resolved: http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2008-01-18.1601592972 [01:15] "Trolltech’s Qt to be licensed under the GPL v3" [01:25] Jucato: ooh groovy, to both planet kde and gpl v3 :) [01:26] :D [01:26] my god, this pizza we had tonight was the biggest I ever had [01:26] 2 pieces and I wanted to blow up [01:26] wow [01:26] jjesse will tell ya, I can eat a whole pizza by myself :) [01:28] why am I not surprised? :D [01:46] who is sending me ctcps [01:48] not me [01:49] w00t, apachelogger_! did you add a patch to fix the fonts in Konqi too? [01:54] who is that in the picture with you Riddell? besides konqi and katie [01:54] the first couple don't look too happy.. === xRaich[o12x is now known as xRaich[o]2x [04:29] oi === \sh_away is now known as \sh === Lure_ is now known as Lure [11:48] any core-dev around to sponsor new snapshot of kdepim-enterprise? === Huahua is now known as Shely [12:30] stdin: bug 183800 [12:30] Launchpad bug 183800 in kdebase-kde4 "cannot lock KDE 4 desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183800 [12:30] there is a solution proposed to add kdm-kde4 as dep for extragear-plasma [12:30] the question is just whether this might be dangerous for users [12:32] bug 184291 also sounds nice :| [12:32] Launchpad bug 184291 in kdebase-workspace "Wrong encoding with kde applications using a kdm4 X session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184291 [14:16] apachelogger: settings a depends on kdm-kde4 should be fine, locking works even when not using it as the default display manager. as for 184291, I don't have a clue :) [14:49] is this known "Kpackage requires the SMART Package Manager to be installed in order to function" when starting KPackage KDE4 from the kmenu? [14:49] yes [14:50] I filed a bug report for that [14:50] okies :) [14:50] just dunno what to do :P [14:50] maybe kick kpackage [14:50] it should depend on smartpm-core [14:50] ok [14:50] * ryanakca is having fun exploring KDE4... [14:50] not any packager's fault though... even the CMakeLists.txt of kdeadmin and kdeadmin/kpackage doesn't even mention SmartPM at all [14:50] !info kpackage-kde4 hardy [14:50] kpackage-kde4: KDE4 package management tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 428 kB, installed size 952 kB [14:51] pfft, can't you tell me the src package [14:51] * apachelogger mumbles: stupid bot [14:51] file a bug against ubuntu-bots [14:51] Source: kdeadmin-kde4 [14:51] should be kdeadmin-kde4 or somethign :) [14:51] I am too busy for filing bugs [14:51] lol, well, I'll file it and you can confirm? [14:52] sure [14:52] file which one? [14:52] oh nvm :P [14:52] lol [14:52] * ryanakca wonders on just writing the patch and sending it to Seveas instead of filing a bug [14:53] hm stdin arleady created a debdfif [14:53] very nice [14:53] yeah I bugged stdin about that last weak :D [14:54] someone's talking about me, I can tell :p [14:54] someone write a postit: kdeadmin ain't in backports [14:54] * apachelogger stops work on kdm [14:54] stdin: can you please have a look at the init file, for me the stop cmd doesn't work, reporting the pid file doesn't exist [14:55] my global shortcuts are br0ken again [14:55] this issue is totally strange [14:56] apachelogger: I've just been trying to figure out why that happens, then knetworkmanager decided that I don't have any network interfaces so I had to configure my wireless manually :) [14:56] oioi [14:56] all fucked up [14:56] awful [14:57] * emonkey has also installed kwifimanager if knetmanager doesn't works [14:57] but that's very rarely [15:02] now that's odd... PIDFILE is set as /var/run/kdm-kde4.pid, but /var/run/kdm.pid is used [15:02] stdin: probably some variable issue [15:02] where the -kde4 gets kicked out due to wrongly passed var [15:03] apachelogger: looks like if I write the patch he'll apply it [15:03] should be simple enough... [15:07] ryanakca: hooray :) [15:09] * stdin investigates kdm some more [15:24] Oo [15:24] kdm-kde4 is isn't all that useable [15:24] causes strange graphical quirks for me [15:32] * Hobbsee pondres how out of date her edgy machine must b [15:32] e [15:34] lol [15:37] * apachelogger uploads kdeadmin ubuntu2 [15:38] wooha [15:39] kpackage needs a patch to use sudo by default -.- [15:39] can't they just use kdesu :| [15:39] heh... see, it seems to me that everything, or most of the stuff I do, for Kubuntu/Ubuntu is for the developpers, instead of the end user... groupware server... patching bot... website is half & half... [15:39] a quick question for the forum: is kde4 not avail for feisty due to compatibility or just time/manpower? [15:39] probably both [15:39] apachelogger: I'm guessing that we're dropping adept for kde4 ? [15:40] claydoh: ... my reply would be that if they really want to have fun with kde4, and they aren't afraid of a bit of work, to compile it from source / svn. Otherwise, I'd second apachelogger ... [15:40] claydoh: it needs newer libs that would all have to be backported an probably break a lot of things [15:41] thats what I said in reply, and then he asked why :) [15:42] he has trouble with gutsy, feisty works for him better [15:42] tell him "stdin said so, that's why" :) [15:42] stdin: that works :) [15:43] you can also tell him to set up his own PPA to build KDE4 on feisty, that way he'll soon figure out the exact reasons why it won't work [15:43] ryanakca: You are? Hm. [15:43] ryanakca: I have no idea about dropping adept [15:44] there is not really any better replacement [15:44] qpackagekit is br0ken [15:44] apachelogger: I think I've found the problem with KDM, I'm testing a patch now [15:44] kpackage is one hell of confusing crap + it doesn't go very deep in dpkg magic [15:44] stdin: cool [15:45] Well. [15:46] mornfall: eh? [15:46] mornfall: someone is working on a qt4 port actually, right? [15:46] apachelogger: Well, I am. [15:46] apachelogger: ah, ok... so KPackage is just something thats there because its there? [15:46] mornfall: ok :) [15:46] ryanakca: yet another package manager [15:46] apachelogger: okies [15:46] it's usable, but is neither what our users need and we want [15:46] But I should probably know if you are going to drop it, since I would have more time for other things, then. [15:47] mornfall: you might throw a discussion about this up on schedule for our next meeting [15:47] mornfall: I'm not... I just guessed we were because I saw a Kpackage KDE4 and not an Adept KDE4 [15:47] but as saied, I see no reason why we should do at this point [15:48] stdin: can you please backport yakuake to the ppa? [15:48] http://kemistry-desktop.blogspot.com/2008/01/kde-400-no-yukuake-for-kubuntu.html [15:50] apachelogger: didn't someone tell me not to put it into the ppa, hmm? [15:50] well [15:50] hold on [15:50] * apachelogger thought it is in the archives already [15:53] hum [15:53] lol [15:53] it appears to me I didn't upload [15:54] well that's rather silly of you isn't it ;) [15:54] haha [15:54] I signed it with my key [15:54] but didn't dput it [15:55] pleasepleasepleaseplease no kpackage please please [15:55] adept is much better :) [15:56] claydoh: I already saied that kpackage is no alternative for us, didn't I? :P [15:56] uh, turkish spam [15:56] * claydoh didn't read up sorry [15:56] or down rather [15:56] thank yo thank you [15:58] hm [15:58] "A penis is a terrible thing to waste." [15:58] To knowledgeable people... Is adept-notifier and adept-upgrader still used? [15:58] ain't spam lovely :P [15:58] I imagine -installer has not been replaced, but those two, dunno. [15:59] mornfall: notifier I think, but I don't have that stuff running, so.... [15:59] Riddell: Around? [16:00] -(~:$)-> ls /usr/share/autostart/|grep adept [16:00] adept_notifier_auto.desktop [16:00] so I'd say notifier [16:01] mornfall: what would we replace it with? [16:01] stdin: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=yakuake but this time :P [16:02] time to put dgetlp to use [16:04] nah, time to write some more meeting cruft :P [16:06] apachelogger: No idea. [16:06] apachelogger: I have thought the upgrader thingy has been replaced, so along that could go notifier. [16:08] Hm, 23rd is Wed. I could probably make that one. [16:08] Do they happen here? [16:08] stdin: why do we want .kde for KDE 4? I can't remember... [16:08] mornfall: #ubuntu-meeting [16:08] Okey. Anyone could remind me? : - ). [16:09] I assume CEST? [16:09] Err. [16:09] CET [16:09] mornfall: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings [16:09] UTC [16:09] Hmh, UTC. [16:09] always UTC :D [16:09] UTC FTW! [16:10] Eh. [16:10] So I am +1, meaning midnight. [16:10] Ah, I guess that's because Riddell is UTC ; - ) *hides*. [16:11] Hm, there should be some CDBS users around? [16:12] * apache|mobile points at smarter [16:12] hi [16:13] sup? [16:13] smarter: ahoy, oxygen cursors rc1 is going to be released in some days, so we just wait for that [16:14] apache|mobile: fine [16:17] apache|mobile: umm, do we? [16:17] I do [16:17] already got the main reason [16:18] * apache|mobile is loosing memory [16:18] anyway, the thing is [16:18] if we go with .kde4, it's not future proof [16:18] because [16:18] we need a wizard for hardy [16:18] which takes care .kde4 users can migrate their kde3 stuff [16:18] oh, you mean in the "future", yeah [16:19] and once we switch to .kde for kde4 we have to migrate everything back and at the same time move the kde3 data to .kde3 [16:19] so we should go with .kde for kde4 already in hardy [16:19] * apache|mobile writes the wiki page [16:27] mornin' [16:27] afternoo' [16:27] evenin' [16:31] mornin [16:32] hmm, guess what I just found out... [16:33] our kdelibs5 seems to use -rpath [16:33] stdin: I'm not really pregnant? [16:33] * Tm_T hides [16:33] Tm_T: not anything quite so exciting, no [16:33] stdin: you heard thiago about rpath [16:34] apache|mobile: yeah, I know what he thinks ;) but isn't it policy not to use it in our .debs? [16:34] * apache|mobile doesn't really honor wrong policies [16:34] and I chose to belive kde over debian [16:35] probably only because I'm evolved in one of them ;-) [16:35] but that means that I didn't have to go to all that trouble of disabling rpath with yakuake-kde4 [16:35] *envolved or something [16:35] stdin: well, it's only my opinion [16:35] nixternal would probably eat you [16:36] well if kdelibs5 has rpath, it doesn't matter if yakuake-kde4 does or not [16:36] * apache|mobile actually thinks thiago should write a blog or something about why rpath isn't evil [16:36] stdin: yep [16:36] pretty much so [16:36] so I could have saved a good hour of my life there :p [16:36] stdin: you should just starten to listen to kde devs :P [16:36] anyway [16:37] stdin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HaraldSitter/KdeFour/DotKde [16:37] makes sense? [16:37] an hour I could have spent sleeping or something useful like that [16:37] stdin: you have no idea how often this happened to me already [16:39] apache|mobile: what about hardy installs that have kde3 only? they'll just have a .kde3 right? [16:40] stdin: yep [16:40] .kde just gets moved to .kde3 [16:40] we need some reliable way of migration detection though [16:40] maybe an entrie in the kdeglobals config [16:41] so the wizard knows - oh the user only used .kde3 now and therefore it's in .kde3, now I just need to ask whether he wants to migrate the configs or start off with a clear profile [16:42] http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot66.jpg [16:42] ^ would be the usual migration options when starting kde4 [16:43] technically, there is also the case when someone used kde4 in gutsy, hence has a .kde4 directory, but that ain't that important, because the kde 3 ones are probably better configured, hence migration of these makes more sense [16:43] well [16:44] * apache|mobile starts writing the wizard page [16:44] how will gutsy (kde3) -> hardy (kde3) migration go, ie: how will you move .kde to .kde3 [16:44] ? [16:45] stdin: I think the best thing is to just change the kde sessions for kde to execute kubuntu-startkde which acts a wrapper, so the wizzard gets executed before the actual starting process [16:45] so we can do an unde the hood move without showing the actual wizard [16:46] just mv .kde to .kde3 [16:46] and write an entry in the kdeglobals of .kde3 [16:46] oh, well cp -r even [16:46] mv might be bad for a later following kde 4 migration of the user configs ;-) [16:46] cp -a is better :) [16:46] what eva :P [16:47] I'm sure Riddell will find a wicked minded python cmd ;-) [16:47] well, -a perseveres permissions === _czessi is now known as Czessi [17:20] apache|mobile: this should fix kdm http://www.stdin.me.uk/diffs/post-rel/kdebase-workspace_4.0.0-0ubuntu8.debdiff [17:20] (again) [17:20] stupid kdm [17:20] stdin: thx, will test later [17:30] stdin: are you going to put yakuake-kde4 into the ppa? [17:30] gutsy users are getting antsy :) [17:30] nixternal: I uploaded it a while ago [17:31] yay!! [17:32] nixternal: guts geeks :P [17:32] no user would use yakuake IMO [17:32] *gutsy even [17:32] why? [17:32] stdin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HaraldSitter/KdeFour/MigrationWizard [17:33] jpatrick: users don't have a konsole addiction which would have them run an app which keeps a konsole always available in background [17:33] apache|mobile: I like it :p [17:33] jpatrick: you're a geek! :P [17:33] many people have a yakuake addiction [17:33] including me [17:33] * apache|mobile is wondering what causes the global shortcut breakage all the time [17:34] apache|mobile: it's useful to just press F12 and presto [17:34] must be some configuration quirk since it works with a clean .kde4 [17:34] jpatrick: yeah, but only if you do that a lot of times a day [17:34] stdin: where is the hardy yakuake-kde4? I can't wait any longer :) [17:34] nixternal: in nu [17:34] roger [17:34] nixternal: blame apachelogger :p [17:34] if only Riddell would be around [17:35] so it's set in stone now that we're going to .kde3? [17:35] for hardy, that is [17:35] stdin: wouldn't matter much there are quite some "old" packages for kde stuck as well [17:35] I don't think that will happen [17:35] mhb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HaraldSitter/KdeFour/DotKde [17:35] happy fiddeling in hardy+1 I wish [17:37] apache|mobile: well... I think it's too late to be thinking about a change in KDE3 this big [17:37] mhb: what makes you think that? [17:37] I would be *very* surprised if people like Tonio_ approved this plan [17:38] good lord kwin(22795): Couldn't start knotify from knotify4.desktop: "KDEInit could not launch '/usr/lib/kde4/bin/knotify4'." [17:38] mhb: why? [17:39] apache|mobile: migrating every user's home directory is tricky, and will surely result in hundreds of broken systems [17:39] mhb: so we better beak it in hardy+1? [17:39] or letz wait until kde5, then the issue will resolve automagically :P [17:40] I'd say so. We're not migrating yet to KDE4 completely, so why should we break systems for the people that want to stay safe for some more time? [17:41] because we have to break it at some point [17:41] or [17:41] we stick to kde3 [17:41] also a good solution [17:41] avoid the breakage [17:41] anyway [17:41] mhb: why do you think that would break something? [17:41] every minor change in the distro breaks something [17:42] hm [17:42] in that case [17:42] letz stop development [17:42] judging by the user's feedback [17:43] apache|mobile: how about "break stuff only if you must" [17:43] apache|mobile: we have to break a lot of systems that want to migrate from KDE3 to KDE4 with Hardy+1 [17:44] apache|mobile: or you wait for openSUSE to finish their migration assistant if they are still planning on one :) [17:45] * mhb still hates wizards, frankly [17:45] :o) [17:45] the magic ain't what it used to be... [17:45] nixternal: 50 bucks they do ;-) === apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger [17:46] well, with Hardy+1, there will only be one direction - to KDE4. [17:46] that means we don't have to do any wizards for people that go KDE3->KDE4, the conf files can be migrated "without them knowing" [17:46] in theory [17:46] * jjesse prefers mages to wizards [17:47] mhb: what with kde3 apps? [17:47] don't they need configs? [17:47] so at it's best you have to copy to .kde3 or something [17:48] apache|mobile_: so your plan would be say "port Amarok conf files only when Amarok2 is installed and Amarok1 is not?" and s/Amarok/any KDE app for every user on the system ? [17:49] eh? [17:49] if we ship Hardy+1 with Amarok1 (KDE3), and suddenly people would want to install Amarok2, then they'd expect their configs to be ported automagically over the minute they install it [17:49] same with digikam and just about any app [17:50] yep [17:50] but I choose non-broken desktops over that [17:51] wait [17:51] because having kde4 and kde3 both in .kde will so break everything [17:51] that's according to your plan [17:51] you cannot choose non-brokend desktops over that [17:51] you'd ditch your plan :o) [17:51] -.- [17:52] mhb: cp -rfa .kde .kde3 start set .kde3 as config dir and check whether anything breaks [17:52] anyone know if transparency can be set correctly in yakuakde-kde4 yet? [17:54] nixternal: there was something about transparency in konsole in latest commit digest [17:54] I never figured out how to enable transparency in konsole4 nor yakuake :P [17:54] will the kde 4.0 in hard be kde 4.0 or 4.0.x? [17:55] 4.0.x [17:55] jjesse: possible roadmap: http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/kde-41-release-team-aims-at-july-2008/ [17:55] konsole-kde4 --enable-transparency <-- smarter [17:55] jjesse: 4.0.x [17:56] sebas said something about having a 6-month schedule for KDE [17:56] nixternal: I'll try [17:56] looking like 4.0.2 [17:56] no [17:56] 9 month schedule [17:56] 9? really? [17:56] yes [17:56] which is quite cool, because we don't have .0 releases in kubuntu then [17:56] "Furthermore, KDE will be releasing a new feature version every 6 months" [17:56] 6 month [17:56] hm [17:56] *shrug* [17:56] Feb: 4.0.1 | Mar: 4.0.2 | Apr: 4.0.3 | May: 4.0.4 | Jun: 4.0.5 | Jul: 4.0.6 | Aug: 4.1.0 [17:57] * apache|mobile_ read something about 9 [17:57] apache|mobile_: typo [17:57] cool :P [17:57] anyway, time to get a coffee [17:57] I so hope it's not going to be July/January [17:57] time to warm up my cup [17:57] mhb: why not? [17:57] that would be really out-of-sync to us [17:57] mhb: it is [17:57] what do you think about fix for bug 164332: I am leaning for adding simple Suggest for "kontact" package (as Recommend cannot be on universe, right) [17:57] Launchpad bug 164332 in kdepim "kontact should suggest or recommend dcoprss" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164332 [17:57] mhb: that gives us time to test [17:58] jjesse: btw, we have the go-ahead to start pushing docs to trunk/ for KDE [17:58] and as saied we don't have to ship .0 releases [17:58] but instead .1 or .2 [17:58] nixternal: the support for transparency is in yakuake, but only in base 4.0.1 [17:58] means we can provide a pretty stable product [17:58] true, but I guess users won't be happy too much... we'll see [17:58] afk [17:58] mhb: we are one month in front of gnome, that goes in, non? [17:58] mhb: you're thinking of the wrong users [17:58] afk2 [17:58] ahh, OK [17:59] toma: I guess so. We'll see. [17:59] ;-) [18:00] mhb: or you can take the .5/.6 and be super stable [18:03] toma: do you see that .x releases will be also monthly after 4.1 (I see 4.0.x more as an exception) [18:03] Lure: that is the plan [18:04] toma: ok, that means lot's of releases (12/year) [18:04] yep [18:04] even more if you consider the beta's for 4.1 [18:05] toma: kde has brave release team [18:06] Lure: yes, i'm happy to see a lot of people involved [18:07] toma: I like very agressive plan of releases in order to ride the kde 4.0 wave [18:08] we all do ;-) [18:08] but i would be against releasing something when it's crap, just because we planned to [18:09] so don't be surprised to some small tweaks in the schedule [18:10] !info kubuntu-desktop [18:10] kubuntu-desktop (source: kubuntu-meta): Kubuntu desktop system. In component main, is optional. Version 1.59 (gutsy), package size 16 kB, installed size 44 kB [18:11] apachelogger: ^^ [18:11] woooohooooo [18:11] toma: sure [18:11] * apachelogger waves over to #amarok for some karma [18:12] ryanakca: thanks a lot :) [18:12] apachelogger: :D [18:12] when are we going to make kubuntu-{desktop,default-settings}-kde4 packages? [18:13] smarter: start writing a list :P [18:13] currently in kubuntu-desktop || proposed for -kde4 || comments [18:13] somethng like that [18:14] apachelogger: where? [18:14] smarter: wiki I'd say [18:21] nixternal: could you add the next kubuntu meeting to the fridge? I asked in fridge-devel a week ago [18:21] yup, date and time? [18:21] never mind [18:21] /topic :p [18:21] yakuake is in the ppa [18:24] nixternal: did the ml even get the message? [18:25] first time I tried sending with alpine [18:25] I didn't see it, but then again I really haven't looked [18:25] just send stuff directly to me via msg [18:25] ok [18:26] I'm trying to get rights there ;) [18:26] meeting added [18:27]