[00:00] <gribelu> claydoh: didn't help.. actualy it was pretty fast except for restoring windows after minimize.. and i alt-tab a lot
[00:00] <gribelu> ah.. no matter
[00:01] <claydoh> ahhh
[00:19] <blizzzek> gn8
[00:21] <Riddelll> anyone able to send a text message for me?
[00:30] <ScottK> Sure
[00:30] <ScottK> Riddelll: Where too
[00:33] <Riddelll> hmm, I wonder if I can even get the number
[00:34] <ScottK> I'll be in and out, so if I'm around when you do, I'll let you know I got it.
[00:37] <Riddelll> ScottK: /msged
[00:41] <ScottK> Riddelll: I got no /msg
[00:41]  * ScottK needs to run anyway
[00:42] <Riddelll> +358 503122448 "muse is dying"
[00:42] <Riddelll> silly freenode
[00:42]  * ScottK tries
[00:42] <uga> Riddelll: don't worry, phone costs keep spammers off mobile phones
[00:44] <ScottK> I think I sent it
[00:44] <Riddelll> thanks ScottK
[00:56] <nixternal> apachelogger_: your patch for the wallpaper doesn't work btw
[00:57] <apachelogger_> nixternal: cool
[00:57]  * apachelogger_ is wondering why though
[00:57] <nixternal> Riddelll: I sure hope muse isn't a person
[00:57] <nixternal> bbiab, gotta go eat some pizza
[00:58] <Jucato> pizza...
[00:58] <Jucato> :(
[00:58] <Riddelll> nixternal: fortunately not
[01:00]  * apachelogger_ is now in a quite euphoric mood and starts rolling of amarok 1.80
[01:01] <Jucato> nixternal: btw. you're on planetkde already
[01:15] <Jucato> oooh looks like the kplayer license problem will be resolved: http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2008-01-18.1601592972
[01:15] <Jucato> "Trolltech’s Qt to be licensed under the GPL v3"
[01:25] <nixternal> Jucato: ooh groovy, to both planet kde and gpl v3 :)
[01:26] <Jucato> :D
[01:26] <nixternal> my god, this pizza we had tonight was the biggest I ever had
[01:26] <nixternal> 2 pieces and I wanted to blow up
[01:26] <Jucato> wow
[01:26] <nixternal> jjesse will tell ya, I can eat a whole pizza by myself :)
[01:28] <Jucato> why am I not surprised? :D
[01:46] <nixternal> who is sending me ctcps
[01:48] <Jucato> not me
[01:49] <nixternal> w00t, apachelogger_! did you add a patch to fix the fonts in Konqi too?
[01:54] <nixternal> who is that in the picture with you Riddell? besides konqi and katie
[01:54] <Jucato> the first couple don't look too happy..
[04:29] <nixternal> oi
[11:48] <Lure> any core-dev around to sponsor new snapshot of kdepim-enterprise?
[12:30] <apachelogger__> stdin: bug 183800
[12:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 183800 in kdebase-kde4 "cannot lock KDE 4 desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183800
[12:30] <apachelogger__> there is a solution proposed to add kdm-kde4 as dep for extragear-plasma
[12:30] <apachelogger__> the question is just whether this might be dangerous for users
[12:32] <apachelogger__> bug 184291 also sounds nice :|
[12:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 184291 in kdebase-workspace "Wrong encoding with kde applications using a kdm4 X session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184291
[14:16] <stdin> apachelogger: settings a depends on kdm-kde4 should be fine, locking works even when not using it as the default display manager. as for 184291, I don't have a clue :)
[14:49] <ryanakca> is this known "Kpackage requires the SMART Package Manager to be installed in order to function"  when starting KPackage KDE4 from the kmenu?
[14:49] <apachelogger> yes
[14:50] <Jucato> I filed a bug report for that
[14:50] <ryanakca> okies :)
[14:50] <apachelogger> just dunno what to do :P
[14:50] <apachelogger> maybe kick kpackage
[14:50] <Jucato> it should depend on smartpm-core
[14:50] <apachelogger> ok
[14:50]  * ryanakca is having fun exploring KDE4...
[14:50] <Jucato> not any packager's fault though... even the CMakeLists.txt of kdeadmin and kdeadmin/kpackage doesn't even mention SmartPM at all
[14:50] <apachelogger> !info kpackage-kde4 hardy
[14:50] <ubotu> kpackage-kde4: KDE4 package management tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 428 kB, installed size 952 kB
[14:51] <apachelogger> pfft, can't you tell me the src package
[14:51]  * apachelogger mumbles: stupid bot
[14:51] <ryanakca> file a bug against ubuntu-bots
[14:51] <ryanakca> Source: kdeadmin-kde4
[14:51] <Jucato> should be kdeadmin-kde4 or somethign :)
[14:51] <apachelogger> I am too busy for filing bugs
[14:51] <ryanakca> lol, well, I'll file it and you can confirm?
[14:52] <apachelogger> sure
[14:52] <Jucato> file which one?
[14:52] <Jucato> oh nvm :P
[14:52] <ryanakca> lol
[14:52]  * ryanakca wonders on just writing the patch and sending it to Seveas instead of filing a bug
[14:53] <apachelogger> hm stdin arleady created a debdfif
[14:53] <apachelogger> very nice
[14:53] <Jucato> yeah I bugged stdin about that last weak :D
[14:54] <stdin> someone's talking about me, I can tell :p
[14:54] <apachelogger> someone write a postit: kdeadmin ain't in backports
[14:54]  * apachelogger stops work on kdm
[14:54] <apachelogger> stdin: can you please have a look at the init file, for me the stop cmd doesn't work, reporting the pid file doesn't exist
[14:55] <apachelogger> my global shortcuts are br0ken again
[14:55] <apachelogger> this issue is totally strange
[14:56] <stdin> apachelogger: I've just been trying to figure out why that happens, then knetworkmanager decided that I don't have any network interfaces so I had to configure my wireless manually :)
[14:56] <apachelogger> oioi
[14:56] <apachelogger> all fucked up
[14:56] <apachelogger> awful
[14:57]  * emonkey has also installed kwifimanager if knetmanager doesn't works
[14:57] <emonkey> but that's very rarely
[15:02] <stdin> now that's odd... PIDFILE is set as /var/run/kdm-kde4.pid, but /var/run/kdm.pid is used
[15:02] <apachelogger> stdin: probably some variable issue
[15:02] <apachelogger> where the -kde4 gets kicked out due to wrongly passed var
[15:03] <ryanakca> apachelogger: looks like if I write the patch he'll apply it
[15:03] <ryanakca> should be simple enough...
[15:07] <apachelogger> ryanakca: hooray :)
[15:09]  * stdin investigates kdm some more
[15:24] <apachelogger> Oo
[15:24] <apachelogger> kdm-kde4 is isn't all that useable
[15:24] <apachelogger> causes strange graphical quirks for me
[15:32]  * Hobbsee pondres how out of date her edgy machine must b
[15:32] <Hobbsee> e
[15:34] <ryanakca> lol
[15:37]  * apachelogger uploads kdeadmin ubuntu2
[15:38] <apachelogger> wooha
[15:39] <apachelogger> kpackage needs a patch to use sudo by default -.-
[15:39] <apachelogger> can't they just use kdesu :|
[15:39] <ryanakca> heh... see, it seems to me that everything, or most of the stuff I do, for Kubuntu/Ubuntu is for the developpers, instead of the end user... groupware server... patching bot... website is half & half...
[15:39] <claydoh> a quick question for the forum: is kde4 not avail for feisty due to compatibility or just time/manpower?
[15:39] <apachelogger> probably both
[15:39] <ryanakca> apachelogger: I'm guessing that we're dropping adept for kde4 ?
[15:40] <ryanakca> claydoh: ... my reply would be that if they really want to have fun with kde4, and they aren't afraid of a bit of work, to compile it from source / svn. Otherwise, I'd second apachelogger ...
[15:40] <stdin> claydoh: it needs newer libs that would all have to be backported an probably break a lot of things
[15:41] <claydoh> thats what I said in reply, and then he asked why :)
[15:42] <claydoh> he has trouble with gutsy, feisty works for him better
[15:42] <stdin> tell him "stdin said so, that's why" :)
[15:42] <claydoh> stdin: that works :)
[15:43] <stdin> you can also tell him to set up his own PPA to build KDE4 on feisty, that way he'll soon figure out the exact reasons why it won't work
[15:43] <mornfall> ryanakca: You are? Hm.
[15:43] <apachelogger> ryanakca: I have no idea about dropping adept
[15:44] <apachelogger> there is not really any better replacement
[15:44] <apachelogger> qpackagekit is br0ken
[15:44] <stdin> apachelogger: I think I've found the problem with KDM, I'm testing a patch now
[15:44] <apachelogger> kpackage is one hell of confusing crap + it doesn't go very deep in dpkg magic
[15:44] <apachelogger> stdin: cool
[15:45] <mornfall> Well.
[15:46] <ryanakca> mornfall: eh?
[15:46] <apachelogger> mornfall: someone is working on a qt4 port actually, right?
[15:46] <mornfall> apachelogger: Well, I am.
[15:46] <ryanakca> apachelogger: ah, ok... so KPackage is just something thats there because its there?
[15:46] <apachelogger> mornfall: ok :)
[15:46] <apachelogger> ryanakca: yet another package manager
[15:46] <ryanakca> apachelogger: okies
[15:46] <apachelogger> it's usable, but is neither what our users need and we want
[15:46] <mornfall> But I should probably know if you are going to drop it, since I would have more time for other things, then.
[15:47] <apachelogger> mornfall: you might throw a discussion about this up on schedule for our next meeting
[15:47] <ryanakca> mornfall: I'm not... I just guessed we were because I saw a Kpackage KDE4 and not an Adept KDE4
[15:47] <apachelogger> but as saied, I see no reason why we should do at this point
[15:48] <apachelogger> stdin: can you please backport yakuake to the ppa?
[15:48] <apachelogger> http://kemistry-desktop.blogspot.com/2008/01/kde-400-no-yukuake-for-kubuntu.html
[15:50] <stdin> apachelogger: didn't someone tell me not to put it into the ppa, hmm?
[15:50] <apachelogger> well
[15:50] <apachelogger> hold on
[15:50]  * apachelogger thought it is in the archives already
[15:53] <apachelogger> hum
[15:53] <apachelogger> lol
[15:53] <apachelogger> it appears to me I didn't upload
[15:54] <stdin> well that's rather silly of you isn't it ;)
[15:54] <apachelogger> haha
[15:54] <apachelogger> I signed it with my key
[15:54] <apachelogger> but didn't dput it
[15:55] <claydoh> pleasepleasepleaseplease no kpackage please please
[15:55] <claydoh> adept is much better :)
[15:56] <apachelogger> claydoh: I already saied that kpackage is no alternative for us, didn't I? :P
[15:56] <apachelogger> uh, turkish spam
[15:56]  * claydoh didn't read up sorry
[15:56] <claydoh> or down rather
[15:56] <claydoh> thank yo  thank you
[15:58] <apachelogger> hm
[15:58] <apachelogger> "A penis is a terrible thing to waste."
[15:58] <mornfall> To knowledgeable people... Is adept-notifier and adept-upgrader still used?
[15:58] <apachelogger> ain't spam lovely :P
[15:58] <mornfall> I imagine -installer has not been replaced, but those two, dunno.
[15:59] <apachelogger> mornfall: notifier I think, but I don't have that stuff running, so....
[15:59] <mornfall> Riddell: Around?
[16:00] <apachelogger> -(~:$)-> ls /usr/share/autostart/|grep adept
[16:00] <apachelogger> adept_notifier_auto.desktop
[16:00] <apachelogger> so I'd say notifier
[16:01] <apachelogger> mornfall: what would we replace it with?
[16:01] <apachelogger> stdin: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=yakuake but this time :P
[16:02] <stdin> time to put dgetlp to use
[16:04] <apachelogger> nah, time to write some more meeting cruft :P
[16:06] <mornfall> apachelogger: No idea.
[16:06] <mornfall> apachelogger: I have thought the upgrader thingy has been replaced, so along that could go notifier.
[16:08] <mornfall> Hm, 23rd is Wed. I could probably make that one.
[16:08] <mornfall> Do they happen here?
[16:08] <apache|mobile> stdin: why do we want .kde for KDE 4? I can't remember...
[16:08] <apache|mobile> mornfall: #ubuntu-meeting
[16:08] <mornfall> Okey. Anyone could remind me? : - ).
[16:09] <mornfall> I assume CEST?
[16:09] <mornfall> Err.
[16:09] <mornfall> CET
[16:09] <apache|mobile> mornfall: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
[16:09] <apache|mobile> UTC
[16:09] <mornfall> Hmh, UTC.
[16:09] <apache|mobile> always UTC :D
[16:09] <apache|mobile> UTC FTW!
[16:10] <mornfall> Eh.
[16:10] <mornfall> So I am +1, meaning midnight.
[16:10] <mornfall> Ah, I guess that's because Riddell is UTC ; - ) *hides*.
[16:11] <mornfall> Hm, there should be some CDBS users around?
[16:12]  * apache|mobile points at smarter
[16:12] <smarter> hi
[16:13] <smarter> sup?
[16:13] <apache|mobile> smarter: ahoy, oxygen cursors rc1 is going to be released in some days, so we just wait for that
[16:14] <smarter> apache|mobile: fine
[16:17] <stdin> apache|mobile: umm, do we?
[16:17] <apache|mobile> I do
[16:17] <apache|mobile> already got the main reason
[16:18]  * apache|mobile is loosing memory
[16:18] <apache|mobile> anyway, the thing is
[16:18] <apache|mobile> if we go with .kde4, it's not future proof
[16:18] <apache|mobile> because
[16:18] <apache|mobile> we need a wizard for hardy
[16:18] <apache|mobile> which takes care .kde4 users can migrate their kde3 stuff
[16:18] <stdin> oh, you mean in the "future", yeah
[16:19] <apache|mobile> and once we switch to .kde for kde4 we have to migrate everything back and at the same time move the kde3 data to .kde3
[16:19] <apache|mobile> so we should go with .kde for kde4 already in hardy
[16:19]  * apache|mobile writes the wiki page
[16:27] <nixternal> mornin'
[16:27] <jpatrick> afternoo'
[16:27] <smarter> evenin'
[16:31] <jjesse> mornin
[16:32] <stdin> hmm, guess what I just found out...
[16:33] <stdin> our kdelibs5 seems to use -rpath
[16:33] <Tm_T> stdin: I'm not really pregnant?
[16:33]  * Tm_T hides
[16:33] <stdin> Tm_T: not anything quite so exciting, no
[16:33] <apache|mobile> stdin: you heard thiago about rpath
[16:34] <stdin> apache|mobile: yeah, I know what he thinks ;) but isn't it policy not to use it in our .debs?
[16:34]  * apache|mobile doesn't really honor wrong policies
[16:34] <apache|mobile> and I chose to belive kde over debian
[16:35] <apache|mobile> probably only because I'm evolved in one of them ;-)
[16:35] <stdin> but that means that I didn't have to go to all that trouble of disabling rpath with yakuake-kde4
[16:35] <apache|mobile> *envolved or something
[16:35] <apache|mobile> stdin: well, it's only my opinion
[16:35] <apache|mobile> nixternal would probably eat you
[16:36] <stdin> well if kdelibs5 has rpath, it doesn't matter if yakuake-kde4 does or not
[16:36]  * apache|mobile actually thinks thiago should write a blog or something about why rpath isn't evil
[16:36] <apache|mobile> stdin: yep
[16:36] <apache|mobile> pretty much so
[16:36] <stdin> so I could have saved a good hour of my life there :p
[16:36] <apache|mobile> stdin: you should just starten to listen to kde devs :P
[16:36] <apache|mobile> anyway
[16:37] <apache|mobile> stdin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HaraldSitter/KdeFour/DotKde
[16:37] <apache|mobile> makes sense?
[16:37] <stdin> an hour I could have spent sleeping or something useful like that
[16:37] <apache|mobile> stdin: you have no idea how often this happened to me already
[16:39] <stdin> apache|mobile: what about hardy installs that have kde3 only? they'll just have a .kde3 right?
[16:40] <apache|mobile> stdin: yep
[16:40] <apache|mobile> .kde just gets moved to .kde3
[16:40] <apache|mobile> we need some reliable way of migration detection though
[16:40] <apache|mobile> maybe an entrie in the kdeglobals config
[16:41] <apache|mobile> so the wizard knows - oh the user only used .kde3 now and therefore it's in .kde3, now I just need to ask whether he wants to migrate the configs or start off with a clear profile
[16:42] <apache|mobile> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot66.jpg
[16:42] <apache|mobile> ^ would be the usual migration options when starting kde4
[16:43] <apache|mobile> technically, there is also the case when someone used kde4 in gutsy, hence has a .kde4 directory, but that ain't that important, because the kde 3 ones are probably better configured, hence migration of these makes more sense
[16:43] <apache|mobile> well
[16:44]  * apache|mobile starts writing the wizard page
[16:44] <stdin> how will gutsy (kde3) -> hardy (kde3) migration go, ie: how will you move .kde to .kde3
[16:44] <stdin> ?
[16:45] <apache|mobile> stdin: I think the best thing is to just change the kde sessions for kde to execute kubuntu-startkde which acts a wrapper, so the wizzard gets executed before the actual starting process
[16:45] <apache|mobile> so we can do an unde the hood move without showing the actual wizard
[16:46] <apache|mobile> just mv .kde to .kde3
[16:46] <apache|mobile> and write an entry in the kdeglobals of .kde3
[16:46] <apache|mobile> oh, well cp -r even
[16:46] <apache|mobile> mv might be bad for a later following kde 4 migration of the user configs ;-)
[16:46] <stdin> cp -a is better :)
[16:46] <apache|mobile> what eva :P
[16:47] <apache|mobile> I'm sure Riddell will find a wicked minded python cmd ;-)
[16:47] <stdin> well, -a perseveres permissions
[17:20] <stdin> apache|mobile: this should fix kdm http://www.stdin.me.uk/diffs/post-rel/kdebase-workspace_4.0.0-0ubuntu8.debdiff
[17:20] <stdin> (again)
[17:20] <apache|mobile> stupid kdm
[17:20] <apache|mobile> stdin: thx, will test later
[17:30] <nixternal> stdin: are you going to put yakuake-kde4 into the ppa?
[17:30] <nixternal> gutsy users are getting antsy :)
[17:30] <stdin> nixternal: I uploaded it a while ago
[17:31] <jpatrick> yay!!
[17:32] <apache|mobile> nixternal: guts geeks :P
[17:32] <apache|mobile> no user would use yakuake IMO
[17:32] <apache|mobile> *gutsy even
[17:32] <jpatrick> why?
[17:32] <apache|mobile> stdin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HaraldSitter/KdeFour/MigrationWizard
[17:33] <apache|mobile> jpatrick: users don't have a konsole addiction which would have them run an app which keeps a konsole always available in background
[17:33] <jpatrick> apache|mobile: I like it :p
[17:33] <apache|mobile> jpatrick: you're a geek! :P
[17:33] <nixternal> many people have a yakuake addiction
[17:33] <nixternal> including me
[17:33]  * apache|mobile is wondering what causes the global shortcut breakage all the time
[17:34] <jpatrick> apache|mobile: it's useful to just press F12 and presto
[17:34] <apache|mobile> must be some configuration quirk since it works with a clean .kde4
[17:34] <apache|mobile> jpatrick: yeah, but only if you do that a lot of times a day
[17:34] <nixternal> stdin: where is the hardy yakuake-kde4? I can't wait any longer :)
[17:34] <apache|mobile> nixternal: in nu
[17:34] <nixternal> roger
[17:34] <stdin> nixternal: blame apachelogger :p
[17:34] <apache|mobile> if only Riddell would be around
[17:35] <mhb> so it's set in stone now that we're going to .kde3?
[17:35] <mhb> for hardy,  that is
[17:35] <apache|mobile> stdin: wouldn't matter much there are quite some "old" packages for kde stuck as well
[17:35] <mhb> I don't think that will happen
[17:35] <apache|mobile> mhb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HaraldSitter/KdeFour/DotKde
[17:35] <apache|mobile> happy fiddeling in hardy+1 I wish
[17:37] <mhb> apache|mobile: well... I think it's too late to be thinking about a change in KDE3 this big
[17:37] <apache|mobile> mhb: what makes you think that?
[17:37] <mhb> I would be *very* surprised if people like Tonio_ approved this plan
[17:38] <apache|mobile> good lord kwin(22795): Couldn't start knotify from knotify4.desktop:  "KDEInit could not launch '/usr/lib/kde4/bin/knotify4'."
[17:38] <apache|mobile> mhb: why?
[17:39] <mhb> apache|mobile: migrating every user's home directory is tricky, and will surely result in hundreds of broken systems
[17:39] <apache|mobile> mhb: so we better beak it in hardy+1?
[17:39] <apache|mobile> or letz wait until kde5, then the issue will resolve automagically :P
[17:40] <mhb> I'd say so. We're not migrating yet to KDE4 completely, so why should we break systems for the people that want to stay safe for some more time?
[17:41] <apache|mobile> because we have to break it at some point
[17:41] <apache|mobile> or
[17:41] <apache|mobile> we stick to kde3
[17:41] <apache|mobile> also a good solution
[17:41] <apache|mobile> avoid the breakage
[17:41] <apache|mobile> anyway
[17:41] <apache|mobile> mhb: why do you think that would break something?
[17:41] <mhb> every minor change in the distro breaks something
[17:42] <apache|mobile> hm
[17:42] <apache|mobile> in that case
[17:42] <apache|mobile> letz stop development
[17:42] <mhb> judging by the user's feedback
[17:43] <mhb> apache|mobile: how about "break stuff only if you must"
[17:43] <mhb> apache|mobile: we have to break a lot of systems that want to migrate from KDE3 to KDE4 with Hardy+1
[17:44] <nixternal> apache|mobile: or you wait for openSUSE to finish their migration assistant if they are still planning on one :)
[17:45]  * mhb still hates wizards, frankly
[17:45] <mhb> :o)
[17:45] <mhb> the magic ain't what it used to be...
[17:45] <apache|mobile_> nixternal: 50 bucks they do ;-)
[17:46] <mhb> well, with Hardy+1, there will only be one direction - to KDE4.
[17:46] <mhb> that means we don't have to do any wizards for people that go KDE3->KDE4, the conf files can be migrated "without them knowing"
[17:46] <mhb> in theory
[17:46]  * jjesse prefers mages to wizards
[17:47] <apache|mobile_> mhb: what with kde3 apps?
[17:47] <apache|mobile_> don't they need configs?
[17:47] <apache|mobile_> so at it's best you have to copy to .kde3 or something
[17:48] <mhb> apache|mobile_: so your plan would be say "port Amarok conf files only when Amarok2 is installed and Amarok1 is not?" and s/Amarok/any KDE app for every user on the system ?
[17:49] <apache|mobile_> eh?
[17:49] <mhb> if we ship Hardy+1 with Amarok1 (KDE3), and suddenly people would want to install Amarok2, then they'd expect their configs to be ported automagically over the minute they install it
[17:49] <mhb> same with digikam and just about any app
[17:50] <apache|mobile_> yep
[17:50] <apache|mobile_> but I choose non-broken desktops over that
[17:51] <mhb> wait
[17:51] <apache|mobile_> because having kde4 and kde3 both in .kde will so break everything
[17:51] <mhb> that's according to your plan
[17:51] <mhb> you cannot choose non-brokend desktops over that
[17:51] <mhb> you'd ditch your plan :o)
[17:51] <apache|mobile_> -.-
[17:52] <apache|mobile_> mhb: cp -rfa .kde .kde3 start set .kde3 as config dir and check whether anything breaks
[17:52] <nixternal> anyone know if transparency can be set correctly in yakuakde-kde4 yet?
[17:54] <smarter> nixternal: there was something about transparency in konsole in latest commit digest
[17:54] <smarter> I never figured out how to enable transparency in konsole4 nor yakuake :P
[17:54] <jjesse> will the kde 4.0 in hard be kde 4.0 or 4.0.x?
[17:55] <apache|mobile_> 4.0.x
[17:55] <smarter> jjesse: possible roadmap: http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/kde-41-release-team-aims-at-july-2008/
[17:55] <nixternal> konsole-kde4 --enable-transparency   <-- smarter
[17:55] <nixternal> jjesse: 4.0.x
[17:56] <mhb> sebas said something about having a 6-month schedule for KDE
[17:56] <smarter> nixternal: I'll try
[17:56] <nixternal> looking like 4.0.2
[17:56] <apache|mobile_> no
[17:56] <apache|mobile_> 9 month schedule
[17:56] <mhb> 9? really?
[17:56] <apache|mobile_> yes
[17:56] <apache|mobile_> which is quite cool, because we don't have .0 releases in kubuntu then
[17:56] <mhb> "Furthermore, KDE will be releasing a new feature version every 6 months"
[17:56] <toma> 6 month
[17:56] <apache|mobile_> hm
[17:56] <apache|mobile_> *shrug*
[17:56] <nixternal> Feb: 4.0.1 | Mar: 4.0.2 | Apr: 4.0.3 | May: 4.0.4 | Jun: 4.0.5 | Jul: 4.0.6 | Aug: 4.1.0
[17:57]  * apache|mobile_ read something about 9
[17:57] <toma> apache|mobile_: typo
[17:57] <apache|mobile_> cool :P
[17:57] <apache|mobile_> anyway, time to get a coffee
[17:57] <mhb> I so hope it's not going to be July/January
[17:57] <nixternal> time to warm up my cup
[17:57] <apache|mobile_> mhb: why not?
[17:57] <mhb> that would be really out-of-sync to us
[17:57] <toma> mhb: it is
[17:57] <Lure> what do you think about fix for bug 164332: I am leaning for adding simple Suggest for "kontact" package (as Recommend cannot be on universe, right)
[17:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164332 in kdepim "kontact should suggest or recommend dcoprss" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164332
[17:57] <apache|mobile_> mhb: that gives us time to test
[17:58] <nixternal> jjesse: btw, we have the go-ahead to start pushing docs to trunk/ for KDE
[17:58] <apache|mobile_> and as saied we don't have to ship .0 releases
[17:58] <apache|mobile_> but instead .1 or .2
[17:58] <stdin> nixternal: the support for transparency is in yakuake, but only in base 4.0.1
[17:58] <apache|mobile_> means we can provide a pretty stable product
[17:58] <mhb> true, but I guess users won't be happy too much... we'll see
[17:58] <apache|mobile_> afk
[17:58] <toma> mhb: we are one month in front of gnome, that goes in, non?
[17:58] <apache|mobile_> mhb: you're thinking of the wrong users
[17:58] <apache|mobile_> afk2
[17:58] <nixternal> ahh, OK
[17:59] <mhb> toma: I guess so. We'll see.
[17:59] <toma> ;-)
[18:00] <toma> mhb: or you can take the .5/.6 and be super stable
[18:03] <Lure> toma: do you see that .x releases will be also monthly after 4.1 (I see 4.0.x more as an exception)
[18:03] <toma> Lure: that is the plan
[18:04] <Lure> toma: ok, that means lot's of releases (12/year)
[18:04] <toma> yep
[18:04] <toma> even more if you consider the beta's for 4.1
[18:05] <Lure> toma: kde has brave release team
[18:06] <toma> Lure: yes, i'm happy to see a lot of people involved
[18:07] <Lure> toma: I like very agressive plan of releases in order to ride the kde 4.0 wave
[18:08] <toma> we all do ;-)
[18:08] <toma> but i would be against releasing something when it's crap, just because we planned to
[18:09] <toma> so don't be surprised to some small tweaks in the schedule
[18:10] <ryanakca> !info kubuntu-desktop
[18:10] <ubotu> kubuntu-desktop (source: kubuntu-meta): Kubuntu desktop system. In component main, is optional. Version 1.59 (gutsy), package size 16 kB, installed size 44 kB
[18:11] <ryanakca> apachelogger: ^^
[18:11] <apachelogger> woooohooooo
[18:11] <Lure> toma: sure
[18:11]  * apachelogger waves over to #amarok for some karma
[18:12] <apachelogger> ryanakca: thanks a lot :)
[18:12] <ryanakca> apachelogger: :D
[18:12] <smarter> when are we going to make kubuntu-{desktop,default-settings}-kde4 packages?
[18:13] <apachelogger> smarter: start writing a list :P
[18:13] <apachelogger> currently in kubuntu-desktop || proposed for -kde4 || comments
[18:13] <apachelogger> somethng like that
[18:14] <smarter> apachelogger: where?
[18:14] <apachelogger> smarter: wiki I'd say
[18:21] <jpatrick> nixternal: could you add the next kubuntu meeting to the fridge? I asked in fridge-devel a week ago
[18:21] <nixternal> yup, date and time?
[18:21] <nixternal> never mind
[18:21] <nixternal> /topic :p
[18:21] <apachelogger> yakuake is in the ppa
[18:24] <jpatrick> nixternal: did the ml even get the message?
[18:25] <jpatrick> first time I tried sending with alpine
[18:25] <nixternal> I didn't see it, but then again I really haven't looked
[18:25] <nixternal> just send stuff directly to me via msg
[18:25] <jpatrick> ok
[18:26] <jpatrick> I'm trying to get rights there ;)
[18:26] <nixternal> meeting added
[18:27] <nixternal> get rights where?
[18:27] <jpatrick> fridge
[18:27] <nixternal> what kind of rights? posting rights?
[18:27] <jpatrick> yeah, kinda
[18:28] <nixternal> feel like writing Ubuntu news stories? :p
[18:28] <jpatrick> with a KDE twist :)
[18:28] <nixternal> there hasn't been any "Kubuntu" news really
[18:29] <nixternal> we might get one articles every 2 months to toss up there...right now it is just nothing more than a place to post UWN
[18:29] <nixternal> it has become stale
[18:29] <jpatrick> shame :(
[18:30] <nixternal> it was good when imbrandon and I took over last year after sabdfl asked us to take over the Fridge
[18:30] <nixternal> we even dropped buntudot which was getting more hits than the fridge ever had
[18:31] <jpatrick> behindubuntu's dead too
[18:31] <nixternal> we even had buntu pod casts
[18:31] <nixternal> ya, I like the behindubuntu series
[18:31] <nixternal> I read all of the behind* sites out there...I like reading about the lives of the developers
[18:32] <crimsun> jpatrick: eh?  I thought it just had a new post fairly "recently"
[18:32] <\sh> nixternal, if everything goes fine, I'll start with a ubuntu webtv show :) hopefully it works with our flash stuff
[18:32] <nixternal> NO FLASH :p
[18:33] <nixternal> webtv would be some cool stuff
[18:33] <\sh> nixternal, my new company is doing this stuff....the live tv client can include people watching the stream. if they agree to be included into the show and have a webcam attached you can even see those people live
[18:34] <\sh> s/see/see and hear/
[18:34] <nixternal> in North America we used to have TechTV years ago on Satellite which was awesome...that got bought out by g4TV and it became nothing but a lame gaming channel, which seems to be heading towards a Spike TV like channel
[18:35] <\sh> nixternal, when I saw the product for the first time during my interview, I said directly: guys, if the studio application is running on linux somehow, we push it throughout the FLOSS community...
[18:35] <jpatrick> crimsun: Current Interview from behindubuntu.org is from "Interviewed: November 2006"
[18:36] <crimsun> jpatrick: oh, I mistook it for behindmotu.
[18:36] <crimsun> pfft, who cares about real life anyhow.  :-)
[18:37] <\sh> crimsun, my wife?
[18:37] <crimsun> \sh: of course. :-)
[18:42] <nixternal> it is cool seeing where other developers are from, what they enjoy doing and what...learn some neat stuff from reading those behind* series
[18:43] <\sh> oh...
[18:43] <\sh> nixternal, jump over to germany and come around :) no sleepingbag needed :)
[18:43] <\sh> nixternal, you could see it live ;)
[18:43] <nixternal> hehe, one of these days I will make my way back to Europe
[18:43] <nixternal> probably in the next year or so
[18:44] <nixternal> working on reconciliation with my ex-wife, and seeing as she was raised in Europe, she will be down for moving back there I am sure
[18:44] <\sh> the life of a MOTU is not funny...sleeping, waking up, going to work, doing some work, going back home, kissing wife, dinner, wife needs attention, wife goes to bed, doing some motu stuff, sleeping...
[18:44] <nixternal> hehehe
[18:45] <apachelogger> hm
[18:45]  * apachelogger notes that his life looks all different :P
[18:45] <crimsun> oh, while people are active.
[18:46]  * apachelogger runs away
[18:46] <crimsun> will kubuntu 8.04 continue to use alsa via arts?
[18:46] <crimsun> I need to know, because this throws a wrench into one piece of ubuntu's pulseaudio migration
[18:47] <crimsun> i.e., I can't easily push libao, etc., to use pulse as the default backend
[18:47] <jpatrick> crimsun: KDE4 has phonon
[18:47] <crimsun> jpatrick: which will go through GSt or xine-lib?
[18:47] <apachelogger> kde3 doesn't
[18:48] <apachelogger> crimsun: xine I'd say
[18:48] <jpatrick> crimsun: xine I believe
[18:48] <crimsun> right, I'm not so much concerned about phonon presently, but I need to know for kde3
[18:48]  * apachelogger doens't think we are building gst right now
[18:48]  * apachelogger doesn't think gst is in 4.0
[18:48] <crimsun> since breaking kde3 at the expense of ubuntu 8.04 isn't an option
[18:50] <apachelogger> crimsun: one can't break arts anymore than it is
[18:50] <apachelogger> but it's not worth the work to get it work with pulse
[18:50] <apachelogger> the code is super awful
[18:51] <nixternal> crimsun: KDE 3 will use Arts still
[18:51] <crimsun> apachelogger: arts isn't the issue; it's the various libs used by other apps (pidgin, ogg123, xmms, etc.)
[18:51] <nixternal> arts is proven, solid, stable, and unmaintained! gotta love it :p
[18:51] <apachelogger> but for libungif we have to do a transition because it's unmaintained :P
[18:52] <apachelogger> crimsun: so you must love kde4 ;-)
[18:52] <crimsun> I love-hate anything doing with computers.
[18:53]  * apachelogger has a Komputer :P
[18:54] <\sh> apachelogger, what transition?
[18:54] <\sh> apachelogger, most of the stuff is done for ubuntu ;)
[18:55] <\sh> mozart-gtk is missing, but you can give it a shot, because I failed badly not knowing anything about the mozart language
[18:55]  * \sh likese beethoven much more ,)
[18:55] <jjesse> will the release of 8.04 be the first distro to ship w/ kde4 bydefault or will another distro be out before 8.04 that will include kde4 as default?
[18:55] <apachelogger> \sh: I have a bug report in one of the kde4 packages I fiddle in.... so I'm pretty much annoied by that transition :P
[18:56] <jpatrick> jjesse: yeah, I think we're the first krazy guys
[18:56] <\sh> apachelogger, kdepim foo?
[18:56] <apachelogger> probably
[18:56] <apachelogger> actually
[18:56] <nixternal> jjesse: openSUSE, Debian, Foresight, and I am sure others, but they will be doing like we do, a KDE 3 and a KDE 4 release
[18:56] <apachelogger> I need to file an request
[18:56] <apachelogger> kdepim has to be thrown out for hardy
[18:56] <\sh> apachelogger, I think it just needs a rebuild to catch up with the deps...afaik
[18:56] <apachelogger> there is no 4.0.0
[18:57] <apachelogger> \sh: it probably wouldn't even build against 4.0
[18:57] <\sh> hoho..who pushed this package in then?
[18:57] <jjesse> but will 8.04 come out before fedora, debian, opensuse etc
[18:57] <apachelogger> \sh: all riddells fault :P
[18:57] <jjesse> with kde4 by default?
[18:57] <nixternal> Foresight will release the month prior to us I think
[18:58] <nixternal> but openSUSE has already released 10.3 with KDE 4
[18:58] <apachelogger> didn't we do that as well?
[18:58] <apachelogger> I mean a cd?
[18:58] <nixternal> ya
[18:58] <nixternal> openSUSE and Debian were before us eith the Live CDs I believe
[18:58] <nixternal> s/eith/with
[18:59] <apachelogger> doesn't matter
[18:59] <apachelogger> quality counts
[18:59] <jjesse> but that is still 7.10 for us, what i'm wondering is if fedora 8 or whatever version and opensuse 10.4 or whatever come before 8.04
[18:59] <apachelogger> and our kde 4 will rock!
[18:59] <nixternal> apachelogger: no doubt
[18:59] <apachelogger> even if I have to destroy all my stress balls until then
[18:59] <nixternal> hehe
[18:59] <apachelogger> jjesse: ask google :P
[18:59] <jjesse> grin :)
[19:00] <apachelogger> omg
[19:00]  * apachelogger is listening to Smoke on the Water by Deep Purple on Machine Head [Amarok]
[19:00] <apachelogger> wooohooo
[19:00] <nixternal> Fedora 9 I don't know about actually, I haven't seen anything from them actually
[19:00] <apachelogger> well
[19:00] <nixternal> hell ya, Deep Purple!
[19:00] <apachelogger> fedora9 will be post hardy
[19:00] <jjesse> and the kde 3 version will be 3.5.8?
[19:00] <apachelogger> werewolf is only 2 months old or something
[19:01] <apachelogger> jjesse: seems so
[19:01] <jjesse> apachelogger: thx
[19:01] <apachelogger> there is no schedule for a .0
[19:01] <apachelogger> .9
[19:01]  * jjesse goes back to workiing on ubuntu book
[19:01]  * apachelogger continues freezing
[19:02] <jjesse> apachelogger: what temp is for you?
[19:02] <crimsun> ugh.  How to get libao transitioned without breaking everything still using alsa directly...
[19:02] <apachelogger> dunno, but cold
[19:02] <jjesse> in michigan its -5 w/ the wind (farenheight)
[19:02] <apachelogger> 12°c maybe
[19:02] <apachelogger> in the room that is
[19:03] <jjesse> wow turn up the heat
[19:03] <apachelogger> I did
[19:03] <apachelogger> something is probably broken
[19:03]  * apachelogger turns the lights on :D
[19:03] <apachelogger> hmm, low level heating
[19:04] <apachelogger> bah
[19:04] <apachelogger> I hate apport reports
[19:04] <apachelogger> bugg 183772
[19:04] <apachelogger> bug 183772
[19:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 183772 in kdebase-kde4 "package kdebase-data-kde4 4:4.0.0-0ubuntu1~gutsy1 failed to install/upgrade: intentando sobreescribir `/usr/lib/kde4/share/dbus-1/interfaces/org.kde.FavIcon.xml', que está también en el paquete konqueror-kde4" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183772
[19:04] <apachelogger> not only that I don't understand the message
[19:05] <apachelogger> the report doesn't even answer
[19:05] <crimsun> I'd guess kdebase-data-kde4 is attempting to overwrite that file that is (formerly) owned by konqueror-kde4
[19:06] <crimsun> a missing C+R
[19:06] <apachelogger> konqueror-kde4 still exists
[19:07]  * apachelogger is tempting to close that bug as invalid
[19:08] <apachelogger> crimsun: we even asked always to remove the old packages, because we don't support upgrades
[19:08]  * apachelogger is listening to Greenfields, Golden Sands by Yusuf Islam on An Other Cup [Amarok]
[19:08] <crimsun> sounds reasonable.
[19:08] <apachelogger> hm, with some modifications kdm-kde4 ain't looking that awful
[19:09] <apachelogger> still it is causing graphic quirks -.-
[19:12] <apachelogger> can someone reproduce bug 183381
[19:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 183381 in kdebase-kde4 "konqueror-kde4 browsing in kde 3.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183381
[19:21] <jjesse> do we all have to change our nicknames now?
[19:21]  * jjesse is now known as jjjjeessssee
[19:22]  * smarter is now known as mmyy keybbooardd is brooo
[19:44] <ryanakca> eh, I'm going to upgrade my server... on which this irssi, the #ubuntu-trivia bot and the mockup contest rules are stored... wish me luck :)
[19:47] <jpatrick> ryanakca: good luck!
[19:47] <ryanakca> lol
[19:47] <apachelogger> Oo
[19:47] <apachelogger> bug 182749
[19:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182749 in kdebase-kde4 "konqueror crashes due to KJS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182749
[19:48]  * ryanakca twiddles while rsync runs
[19:48] <apachelogger> ASSERT: "!icon.isEmpty()" in /build/buildd/kdebase-3.5.2/./libkonq/konq_pixmapprovider.cc (81)
[19:48] <nixternal> http://www.deviceguru.com/2008/01/17/an-open-letter-to-mark-shuttleworth/
[19:48] <apachelogger> that is like... eh.... awful
[19:48] <apachelogger> 3.5.2
[19:48] <apachelogger> that is like.... old
[19:48] <nixternal> yay, people who are absolutely clueless when it comes to marketing, operations management, and infrastructure management
[19:48] <nixternal> they write crap like that
[19:49] <apachelogger> wtf
[19:49] <apachelogger> that is dapper
[19:49] <apachelogger> did we backport kde4 to dapper?
[19:49] <nixternal> heck no
[19:49] <apachelogger> hm
[19:49] <apachelogger> what to do with that bug report
[19:49] <nixternal> I would love to see the report for that one
[19:49] <apachelogger> and how did he get it installed anyway
[19:50] <Nightrose> apachelogger: kwallet in kde4 doesn´t seem to store my passwords for fish and ftp in konqueror - is this a known problem?
[19:51]  * ryanakca wonders if it would be more of a safety feature...
[19:51] <apachelogger> Nightrose: your configs are b0rked
[19:51] <apachelogger> saftey++
[19:51] <nixternal> how the hell did he do that in that bug report
[19:51] <ryanakca> one password gets compromised and the passwords to 10 other servers get compromised
[19:51] <nixternal> !info kdebase dapper
[19:51] <ubotu> kdebase (source: kdebase): base components from the official KDE release. In component main, is optional. Version 4:3.5.2-0ubuntu27.3 (dapper), package size 38 kB, installed size 76 kB
[19:52] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ok will check thx
[19:52] <ryanakca> not that the server owner deserves any less if they're running ftp...
[19:52] <apachelogger> nixternal: edgy had .5, so that guy is obviously running dapper
[19:52] <apachelogger> oh well
[19:53] <apachelogger> the error appears in /usr/lib/khtml
[19:53] <apachelogger> non of my business
[19:53]  * apachelogger tosses the bug over to kdebase
[19:55] <apachelogger> Nightrose: do you have time to try reproducing bug 184379
[19:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 184379 in kdebase-kde4 "localization in KDE 4 does not work any more" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184379
[19:56] <Nightrose> apachelogger: right now no - will do in 30 mins or so
[19:56] <Nightrose> is that ok?
[19:56] <apachelogger> sure, no hurry
[19:56] <Nightrose> k
[19:56] <smarter> l10n works here
[19:56] <smarter> but I'm not on amd64
[19:57] <apachelogger> IMHO that shouldn't really depend on the arch
[19:57] <smarter> maybe a broken build
[19:58] <apachelogger> might be
[19:58]  * ryanakca bbl
[20:02] <Lure> Tonio_, Riddell: can you sponsor new kdepim snapshot upload?
[20:05] <toma> kdepim snapshot?
[20:06] <Lure> toma: kdepim-enterprise branch
[20:06] <toma> ah kde3
[20:08] <Lure> btw, is keynote video from release-party already online somewhere?
[20:08]  * Lure thinks he missed something...
[20:08] <toma> no, they are working on it
[20:08] <toma> 15gb
[20:09] <Tonio_> Lure: will do tomorrow, send me an email please !
[20:09] <Lure> toma: ok
[20:09] <Tonio_> Lure: I have friends at home so I'm not available
[20:09] <Lure> Tonio_: thanks, enjoy time with your friends
[20:10] <Tonio_> Lure: thanks :)
[20:15] <blueyed> Are there ppas with kde4 builds from svn?
[20:16] <nixternal> nope
[20:16] <nosrednaekim> blueyed: I don't think so
[20:17] <blueyed> I've thought I've heard so.. might be a good idea, wouldn't it?
[20:17] <mhb> I wonder when they make the panel movable and resizable like sebas promised :o)
[20:17] <blueyed> Are the fonts on http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/b/boinc/boinc_5.10.30-4/changelog broken for you, too?
[20:17] <nixternal> 23 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 23 Jan 22:30 UTC: Forum         elkbuntu Council | 23 Jan 23:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
[20:17] <nixternal> ^^ that means we need to reschedule or change the time of our meeting
[20:17] <mhb> from the UI, that is.
[20:18] <nixternal> or we just have the meeting in here
[20:18] <jpatrick> Riddell: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/ports/daily-live/current/ <- says LTS, could you have it edited?
[20:20] <blueyed> mhb: that appears to happen in 4.1, I could imagine.. but I'd wish I'm wrong..
[20:22] <mhb> ", so early adopting users won't need to wait until July for some sorely missing features (resizing, moving panel, anyone?!)"
[20:22] <mhb> so I guess earlier, I can't wait :o)
[20:22] <apachelogger> mhb: you ever wondered why we have so many package updates for kde4? :P
[20:24]  * Lure does svn switch back to trunk, no excitement in 4.0.x anymore... ;-)
[20:27] <apachelogger> lol
[20:28] <Lure> apachelogger: you are anyway put most of it into kubuntu packages, so no difference ;-)
[20:29] <apachelogger> true ^_^
[20:29] <Lure> apachelogger: I will use kubuntu kde4 packages now as fall-back from svn, so do not break it ;-)
[20:29] <apachelogger> d'oh
[20:29]  * apachelogger always is looking forward to the next break :|
[20:29] <nixternal> I'm not
[20:29] <nixternal> I depend on KDE 4 :)
[20:29] <nosrednaekim> :)
[20:29] <apachelogger> me too :P
[20:30] <apachelogger> still a breakage is always a nice thing to have, makes my heart beat faster
[20:30] <Lure> apachelogger: particualrly if you have caused it
[20:30] <apachelogger> yeah
[20:31] <Lure> thinking about all that people yelling your name all around the world ;-)
[20:31] <apachelogger> considering I am the one who is uploading stdin's and my stuff, it's mostly me
[20:31] <apachelogger> Lure: never thought about it that way
[20:31] <apachelogger> like it :D
[20:32] <Lure> btw, is stdin planning for motu soon?
[20:32] <nosrednaekim> hehe... doubt he would have any problems :)
[20:32] <apachelogger> stdin: did you package a pure debhelper package yet?
[20:33] <stdin> apachelogger: I have done, but recently it's been mostly cdbs. I understand debhelper more though
[20:34] <stdin> if I can see the whole rules file in one go, I can understand the process more
[20:34] <apachelogger> stdin: you have my support for motu then
[20:34] <apachelogger> after all, you're breaking kde4 less often then me :P
[20:34] <apachelogger> *than
[20:34] <stdin> it's because I'm afraid of being hit with hobbsee's "clue stick" :p
[20:35] <apachelogger> something to be afraid of, indeed
[20:35] <jpatrick> stdin: nothing compared to TechBoard
[20:35] <smarter> is there any cool thing to package/update? :}
[20:36] <ScottK> Anyone here with Edgy or Feisty Kubuntu installs that can do a quick test for me?
[20:36] <stdin> jpatrick: what? there's something more fearsome that hobbsee in the word?! maybe I should consider becoming a hobbit
[20:36] <Lure> ScottK: just strange guys with kde4-svn ;-)
[20:37] <ScottK> FIgured.
[20:37] <jpatrick> stdin: lucky one doesn't have to go though TB nowadays
[20:37] <Lure> ScottK: did you try #kubuntu?
[20:37] <Lure> ScottK: sometimes users like to help...
[20:37] <ScottK> Lure: No.  Good point.
[20:37]  * ScottK generally avoids the user channels
[20:37]  * apachelogger doesn't like users either :P
[20:37] <jpatrick> ScottK: #kubuntu-testers full of guinea pigs
[20:37] <Lure> ScottK: me to, but they have helped me couple of times in similar cases
[20:38] <Lure> ScottK: and mhb arranged quite some testers in past
[20:38] <ScottK> Thanks.   I'll try -testers first.
[20:38] <nosrednaekim> ScottK: I have one on the other computer
[20:38] <ScottK> Yes
[20:38] <ScottK> nosrednaekim: Is this other computer available?
[20:38] <nosrednaekim> yep.... 32 bit... but I really can't DL anything
[20:39] <nosrednaekim> (its fiesty)
[20:39] <ScottK> You can't download from a PPA?
[20:39] <nosrednaekim> well, nothing big... I hve dial-up
[20:40] <ScottK> Ah.  You don't want to do this then.
[20:40] <ScottK> Thanks for offering thoug.  A new clamav (~15 MB) is part of the deal.
[20:40] <nosrednaekim> that would take a little over a hour and a half, you sure?
[20:41] <ScottK> Let me see if I can find someone in Kubunt or Kubuntu-testers
[20:41] <apachelogger> yummy
[20:41] <apachelogger> contributor comments on revu
[20:41] <apachelogger> very smooth
[20:42] <cheguevara> hi
[20:43] <jpatrick> cheguevara: wb
[20:44] <nixternal> who, el che is back out of hiding! :)
[20:44] <nixternal> err, whoa, not who
[20:45] <jpatrick> and it's iRon :D
[20:45] <iRon> hi all :)
[20:45] <jpatrick> and danimo: hi
[20:46] <danimo> heya!
[20:46] <danimo> apachelogger: are there amarok 2.0 pre packages yet?
[20:46] <jpatrick> :)
[20:47] <apachelogger> danimo: technically yes
[20:47] <apachelogger> but
[20:47] <smarter> danimo: amarok2 is not worth it atm
[20:47] <apachelogger> we will roll tech preview 1 soon
[20:48] <apachelogger> and this will end up in the ppa
[20:49] <apachelogger> smarter, jpatrick, nixternal, stdin: btw, the decision was 4/1 for an inclusion in ppa
[20:49] <jpatrick> apachelogger: I'm the only one that said yes?
[20:50] <apachelogger> s/for an inclusion/in favor of an inclusion
[20:51] <apachelogger> i.e. 4 yes and 1 no :P
[20:51] <Nightrose> apachelogger: honey now I have some time to check that bug ;-)  is it save to install kdm-kde4? I remembered it having some problems
[20:51] <apachelogger> without me taking a vote at all
[20:51] <apachelogger> Nightrose: pretty much
[20:51] <Nightrose> k
[20:53] <stdin> apachelogger: did you try ubuntu8 yet?
[20:53] <apachelogger> stdin: nope
[20:53] <apachelogger> will do
[20:53] <apachelogger> after I got something to eat
[20:54] <cheguevara> hi jpatrick hi apachelogger :P
[20:54] <stdin> oh well, I've waited 4 hours, what's a little longer :p
[20:54] <cheguevara> hows it going
[20:55] <cheguevara> nixternal, s/hiding/lack of internet
[20:55] <cheguevara> :P
[20:57] <apachelogger> stdin: lol
[21:06] <Nightrose> apachelogger: seems to get into an endless loop here when changing language to german in the system settings
[21:07] <Nightrose> it goes to 90% and starts a t 0 again
[21:07] <Nightrose> 3 loop now
[21:07] <Nightrose> 3rd
[21:08] <Nightrose> 4th
[21:08] <Nightrose> I am going to cancel it
[21:08] <apachelogger> mhhh
[21:08] <apachelogger> kdm-kde4 is totally b0rked
[21:11] <apachelogger> stdin: doesn't work for me
[21:11] <stdin> apachelogger: what bit?
[21:17] <apachelogger> stdin: the pid bit
[21:18] <stdin> apachelogger: is it at least using /var/run/kdm-kde4.pid ?
[21:18] <Lure> apachelogger: did you change config file?
[21:19] <apachelogger> stdin: can't say, I'll do some investigetion on that stuff anyway now, so don't worry
[21:19] <apachelogger> Lure: which config?
[21:19] <Lure> apachelogger: I think there are some entries for log and pid files in kdm config file
[21:19] <stdin> apachelogger: you may have to reconfigure kdm-kde4, the path for default-display-manager has changed
[21:20] <apachelogger> hm
[21:20] <apachelogger> stdin: uses the right pid
[21:20] <apachelogger> so there might be some problem at creation
[21:21] <stdin> apachelogger: it also checks that /proc/<pid>/exec contains the $DAEMON name before it'll try to kill it
[21:41] <apachelogger> stdin: there are quite some paths wrong
[21:52] <blizzzek> gn8
[21:55] <nosrednaekim> is there a meeting in 5 minutes?
[21:56] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: no
[21:56] <nosrednaekim> my UTC translator is off.. sorry ;)
[21:57] <jpatrick> it's next week wednesday 23:00 UTC
[21:57] <nosrednaekim> what was I thinking.... sorry
[21:57] <jpatrick> no prob...
[22:07] <apachelogger> stdin: I think you b0rked kdm even more :P
[22:07] <stdin> I'm working on it
[22:07] <Tm_T> haha
[22:08] <apachelogger> stdin: me too
[22:08] <apachelogger> that is redundant
[22:08] <apachelogger> Tm_T: mom, tell him
[22:09] <apachelogger> well
[22:09] <stdin> Tm_T: tell the bully to stop picking on me
[22:09] <apachelogger> stdin: stop working
[22:09] <apachelogger> I fixed it
[22:09] <apachelogger> genkdmconfig-kde4 was the problem
[22:09] <apachelogger> native version works
[22:09] <apachelogger> god I hate those scripts
[22:11] <apachelogger> god I hate those X killers
[22:11] <apachelogger> Oo
[22:11] <apachelogger> cool
[22:11] <apachelogger> now it's broken again
[22:11] <apachelogger> -.-
[22:11]  * apachelogger kicks kdm
[22:14] <Tm_T> stdin: welcome back, my young padawan
[22:15] <stdin> hmm, kdm-kde4 seems to work for me :)
[22:15] <apachelogger> you are just as b0rked as kdm :P
[22:15] <apachelogger> Tm_T: mom, I don't wanna do that anymore
[22:15] <nixternal> no doubt
[22:15]  * apachelogger should have become a ballet dancer :S
[22:15] <nixternal> kdm-kde4 gave me the error "quit smoking crack dummy! it ain't gonna work!"
[22:15] <apachelogger> oh well
[22:15] <apachelogger> here it goes
[22:15] <apachelogger> we has a config error
[22:15] <apachelogger> omg
[22:16] <apachelogger> 50 bucks, debian is responsible :P
[22:16] <stdin> apachelogger: all it needed was "dpkg-reconfigure kdm-kde4" to set /var/lib/kde4/bin/kdm as the default and it all went swimmingly
[22:16] <apachelogger> stdin: well, yes, basically, but under the hood are edges, too many edges
[22:16] <stdin> debian is always responsible, that's what's so good about being downstream :p
[22:16] <apachelogger> and these edges will cost us 500 bugs at the time
[22:17] <apachelogger> stdin: we shouldn't be... most kde4 packages probably have 90% changes compared to the debian ones ;-)
[22:17] <stdin> not kdm, kdm is all their fault. that's my story anyway
[22:18] <stdin> editing patches in nano is fun though
[22:18] <jpatrick> vim!
[22:18] <stdin> I don't do vim
[22:19] <stdin> not since many years ago when I tried editing a file and had to hard reboot because I couldn't figure out how to exit the damn thing
[22:19] <apachelogger> vim!
[22:20] <apachelogger> lol
[22:20] <jpatrick> stdin: :q!
[22:20] <apachelogger> rebootin
[22:20] <apachelogger> yummy
[22:20] <apachelogger> well
[22:20] <apachelogger> here is tha story
[22:20] <stdin> jpatrick: I know *now*, but didn't then :p
[22:20] <apachelogger> stdin: kdmrc overrides the pid setting
[22:20] <apachelogger> question is just
[22:20] <apachelogger> does it do that by default
[22:20] <apachelogger> or just because of some debian patch
[22:20] <stdin> apachelogger: yes, that's why I added the patch for it
[22:21] <jpatrick> stdin: hehe
[22:21] <apachelogger> so
[22:21] <apachelogger> hmmm
[22:21] <apachelogger> note: never apply patches when eating
[22:21] <apachelogger> why dit that patch not get in?
[22:21] <stdin> apachelogger: should do, it's the 2nd bit of 07_kdmrc_defaults.diff
[22:22] <stdin> "@@ -873,9 +873,9 @@" is mine
[22:23] <apachelogger> yeah, I applied it manually now
[22:23]  * apachelogger kicks patch
[22:23] <apachelogger> the more I use that app the more I hate it
[22:24] <stdin> and /etc/X11/default-display-manager needs to be the same as $DAEMON which needs to *not* be the wrapper script, as the init script checks /proc/<pid>/cmdline (which will be the real path)
[22:24] <apachelogger> yeah
[22:25] <stdin> so I thought "either I rewrite the init script, or change /etc/X11/default-display-manager", so I changed /etc/X11/default-display-manager :)
[22:25] <apachelogger> good point :P
[22:26] <stdin> the good thing is that because all the kdelibs have -rpath we don't actually need wrapper scripts :p
[22:27] <apachelogger> Oo
[22:27] <Lure> stdin: we should move script kdm-kde4 script wraper directly in /etc/init.d/kdm-kde4
[22:27] <apachelogger> now
[22:27] <apachelogger> rpath ftw!
[22:27] <apachelogger> letz use rpath all over the place
[22:27] <apachelogger> screw the policies
[22:28] <apachelogger> Lure: we don't use kdm-kde4
[22:28] <apachelogger> actually we should kick it from the package
[22:28] <stdin> all it would take is one extra line in the init script if we took off rpath anyway
[22:29] <Lure> apachelogger: ok, just recalls this from time back...
[22:29] <nixternal> Nightrose: @ the guy in the IRC channel (you know who you are): For gods sake check if the person you are talking about is in the channel. Your comments were way off.
[22:29] <nixternal> I am sorry :p
[22:30] <Nightrose> nixternal: thx - I think i got it off my chest now with that blog ;-)
[22:30] <apachelogger> hm
[22:30] <apachelogger> don't get thatone
[22:30] <nixternal> I am going to borrow from your presentation :)
[22:30]  * apachelogger notes that he isn't uptodate
[22:30] <Nightrose> nixternal: sure - which ine?
[22:30] <nixternal> apachelogger: I figure since I spout off so much, it was me :p
[22:30] <nixternal> the KDE 4 one
[22:31] <apachelogger> *head scratching*
[22:31] <Nightrose> nixternal: hehe yea that was by inge wallin - thank him ;-)  there is more stuff in his presentation as I wrote - but I had to kick some slides as I had only around 15 minutes to talk
[22:31] <Nightrose> :/
[22:32] <apachelogger> Nightrose: actually sebas made it I think :P
[22:32] <apachelogger> but as saied I'm out-of-date
[22:32] <apachelogger> completely
[22:32] <Nightrose> apachelogger: might be but inge´s mail sounded like he did
[22:32] <apachelogger> social, technical, even pornographical
[22:32] <apachelogger> Nightrose: as if you wouldn't do the same :P
[22:33]  * Nightrose cuddles the out-of-date-apachelogger :P
[22:33] <Nightrose> hehe no I would not
[22:33] <Nightrose> why would I?
[22:33] <apachelogger> -.-
[22:34] <nixternal> apachelogger: in Nightrose's last blog post, she said the "@ the guy in the IRC channel" bit, and I assumed out of fun it was me, unless it was me :)
[22:34] <nixternal> does that help clarify the above statements at all?
[22:34] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:35] <apachelogger> a little
[22:35] <nixternal> I was making a funny, hopefully not about myself
[22:35] <apachelogger> that wouldn't be the first time, would it?
[22:35] <apachelogger> hm
[22:35] <apachelogger> so
[22:35] <apachelogger> now I b0rked kdm-kde4
[22:35] <apachelogger> completely
[22:36] <Nightrose> nixternal: hehe I assume you did not fly over to stuttgart yesterday? if so it was not you since that jerk was in the audience
[22:37] <apachelogger> ah
[22:37] <apachelogger> jerk talk
[22:37] <apachelogger> Nightrose: was he at least hot?
[22:37] <apachelogger> or such an ugly nerd?
[22:37] <Nightrose> apachelogger: dunno - don´t know which one of them he was
[22:37] <Nightrose> but I assume he was fat and ugly
[22:37] <Nightrose> :P
[22:38] <Nightrose> and smelly
[22:38] <apachelogger> cool
[22:38] <apachelogger> so
[22:38] <apachelogger> Nightrose: did you get a killer already?
[22:39] <Nightrose> *g* nope - should I?
[22:39] <apachelogger> Nightrose: course
[22:39] <Nightrose> hmmm /me calls
[22:40] <Nightrose> what do I ask the killer to do apachelogger?
[22:40] <apachelogger> well, what killers usually do :P
[22:40] <smarter> apachelogger: who cares about kdm-kde4? :P
[22:41] <Nightrose> apachelogger: I see.. :P
[22:41] <smarter> it's ugly and does nothing more than the kde3 version
[22:41] <apachelogger> smarter: well, for the kde4 hardy we will use it
[22:42] <apachelogger> also as a motu I can't stand such useless b0rked packages
[22:42] <toma> smarter: with that argument, you can kill plasma and use kicker
[22:42] <smarter> plasma does cool things
[22:42] <Nightrose> indeed
[22:42] <smarter> kdm does what a dm does
[22:42] <smarter> are the kdm3 themes compatible with kdm4?
[22:42] <apachelogger> probably
[22:42] <smarter> so that at least we get something decent
[22:43] <smarter> time to create a kubuntu-default-settings-kde4 :}
[22:43] <apachelogger> nope
[22:43] <apachelogger> first we need kubuntu-desktop-kde4 :P
[22:43] <apachelogger> and properly packages all over the place
[22:43] <jpatrick> TODO: disable KTip KDE 4
[22:43] <apachelogger> before I wouldn't even think to think about thinking about a default-settings
[22:43] <apachelogger> indeed
[22:43] <iRon> apachelogger: I need working kdm-kde4 to implement bulletproof-x for it.. so I could help you with it ;)
[22:43] <apachelogger> smarter, jpatrick: we could start off a todo
[22:44] <apachelogger> in the wiki
[22:44] <smarter> things I think we should put in k-d-kde4: kwallet, kmix
[22:44] <apachelogger> <-- wiki addicted
[22:44] <apachelogger> yay
[22:44] <jpatrick> apachelogger: http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo <- needs love
[22:44] <smarter> wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/KDE4MetaPackages ? :]
[22:44] <apachelogger> iRon: well, stdin already did a lot, so the package isn't far from done
[22:44] <apachelogger> just need to change the default settings for a bit, they make my eyes bleed
[22:45] <apachelogger> stdin: http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo <- needs love
[22:45] <smarter> can I put random idea for the k-d-kde4 package in Kubuntu/Todo ? :P
[22:46] <apachelogger> for not that shouldn't be problem I think
[22:46] <iRon> Btw, i've found how to implement "User Hard Disk Mounting" in KDE4. Do we need this for KDE4?
[22:46] <apachelogger> smarter: just make it clear the ideas are for k-d-kde4 ;-)
[22:47]  * blueyed has a dejavu re: Kubuntu/Todo
[22:48]  * apachelogger is listening to White Room by Eric Clapton on Complete Clapton [Amarok]
[22:49] <apachelogger> omg
[22:49] <apachelogger> there is a 30000 inches big issue in kdm-kde4
[22:52] <apachelogger> Nightrose: so where can I find this guy?
[22:52] <Nightrose> apachelogger: no idea since he used a random nick :(
[22:53] <Nightrose> but I think for him knowing that I read what he wrote will be embarassing enough ;-)
[22:53] <apachelogger> don't be so sure
[22:53] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I wanna read as well
[22:53] <apachelogger> hm, omg bug 184434
[22:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 184434 in kdebase-workspace "KDE 4.0 panel & App. Launcher freak out when running Firefox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184434
[22:53] <apachelogger> rofl
[22:53] <apachelogger> now that is what one gets for using firefox
[22:53] <apachelogger> I luve KDE :D
[22:53]  * Nightrose is listening to Cry by Rihanna on Good Girl Gone Bad [Amarok]
[22:58]  * Nightrose searches for apachelogger mind
[22:59] <Nightrose> don´t loose it again honey!
[22:59] <Nightrose> +`s
[22:59]  * apachelogger is grumpy now
[22:59] <Nightrose> ?
[22:59] <apachelogger> why does this always happen to me
[22:59] <apachelogger> stupid mind
[22:59] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:59]  * apachelogger throws stress balls around
[22:59] <apachelogger> bah
[22:59] <apachelogger> I talk a stress ball for a walk
[23:00] <apachelogger> *take even
[23:00] <Nightrose> talk might helo as well ;-)
[23:00] <Nightrose> *hep
[23:00] <Nightrose> meh help
[23:25] <apachelogger> lol
[23:26] <apachelogger> stdin: why do we have the wrapper scripts at all? ;-)
[23:26]  * stdin thinks of a reason...
[23:27] <stdin> to run KDE 4 apps in a KDE 3 session when you haven't set the KDE 4 $PATH
[23:27] <stdin> there, that's one reason
[23:27] <apachelogger> stdin: debian/links?
[23:27] <apachelogger> less work, less build time sucking, less of everything, more transparency :P
[23:28] <stdin> well some things will need the right $PATH, kfmclient4 for instance
[23:28] <stdin> other than that, links would work just as well
[23:28] <apachelogger> hm
[23:28] <apachelogger> I think kfmclient4 is really the only
[23:29] <stdin> I haven't seen anything else that needs it, no
[23:29]  * apachelogger now is also totally in love with rpath
[23:31] <stdin> so /usr/bin/kfmclient4 can be a script that just sets the PATH then runs '/usr/lib/kde4/bin/kfmclient4 "$@"', the rest should just magically work
[23:34] <apachelogger> yeah
[23:34] <apachelogger> stdin: do you want it to my Apps4for3 propsal, or should I do?
[23:34] <apachelogger> +add somewhere
[23:36] <stdin> you can, I'm trying to fix something that's bugging me
[23:37] <stdin> I can't get X11 forwarding to work on one host, even though it used to and the configs are the same here and there
[23:37] <stdin> and ssh -vvv isn't telling me a thing, so I'm looking at raw TCP packets :p