[00:02] <ryanakca> Riddell: hmm... any idea how kdebindings-kde4 got into the archives without a copyright file?
[00:02]  * ryanakca checks that it /is/ in the archives and he isn't imagining things
[00:04] <Riddell> ryanakca: couldn't imagine.  Do take the opportunity to add one
[00:05]  * ryanakca does
[00:08] <ryanakca> Riddell: would something along these lines (stolen from kdebindings-3.5.8) work for the copyright file, or do I need to list each and every author? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53090/plain/
[00:10] <Riddell> ryanakca: hmm, sparse
[00:11] <Riddell> that AUTHORS file is horribly out of date
[00:12] <Riddell> ryanakca: you don't need to list every author but it would be good to have the licence and principle author of each module
[00:12] <Riddell> ryanakca: just fill in what information you can easily find, we can hunt for the harder details later
[00:13]  * Riddell sleeps
[00:13] <ryanakca> Riddell: okies, thanks, night :)
[00:18] <nosrednaekim> txwikinger: ping...
[00:18] <txwikinger> nosrednaekim: pong
[00:19] <nosrednaekim> txwikinger: more reports of keyboard randomly stopping. what did you do exactly to fix yours?
[00:19] <txwikinger> kaccess started slowkeys
[00:19] <txwikinger> so it worked .. it needed to be pressed for about 2 or 3 secs
[00:20] <txwikinger> I remembered that I had that once before
[00:20] <nosrednaekim> so you just disabled slow keys in system settings?
[00:20] <txwikinger> yes
[00:21] <nosrednaekim> txwikinger: i really have to go.... if you have time, coulkd you help Tonren over in the main channel? he seems to have the same problem as you
[00:21] <nosrednaekim> thanks!
[00:21] <txwikinger> ok.. I will try
[00:40] <freeflying> Riddell: ttf-wqy-zenhei includes wqy-zenhei.ttf, no other source
[00:48] <mornfall> Hi.
[00:48] <nosrednaekim> hi mornfall
[00:49] <mornfall> Anyone with syncing powers willing to pull libwibble-dev from unstable? I have just uploaded 0.1.12 (which is required by adept-3).
[00:50] <mornfall> I will upload libept as well in a while.
[00:50] <mornfall> (They could go in one go I guess.)
[00:54] <mornfall> Hm, the speed of debian buildd's is pretty darn cute. Hmm.
[00:54] <mornfall> They used to be pretty bogged. Wondering what I have overslept.
[01:01] <mornfall> I have also uploaded libept now. It will take a little while till it gets through.
[01:02] <mornfall> Hobbsee: Do you have the powers neccessary to get packages from unstable into Hardy?
[01:02] <mornfall> (Hi, too.)
[01:03] <Hobbsee> mornfall: i can do, yes
[01:03] <Hobbsee> what do you need?
[01:03]  * Hobbsee moderates kubuntu-users@ again
[01:03] <mornfall> Well, I uploaded libwibble 0.1.12 and libept 0.5.13 into unstable, that are build-depends of adept-3.
[01:04] <mornfall> libept wasn't picked up yet, but it should be in a while.
[01:04] <Hobbsee> the autosync is off now
[01:04] <mornfall> I mean in Debian.
[01:04] <mornfall> The latter sits in incoming.
[01:04] <claydoh> Hobbsee: sorry you need to do it, but thanks for it
[01:05] <mornfall> The former already built on all arches except, well, arm (dunno what's up with arm).
[01:05] <Hobbsee> claydoh: sorry it's taken so long.  i unsubscribed from that list a while ago
[01:05]  * Hobbsee has now nuked more topic
[01:05] <Hobbsee> s
[01:05] <mornfall> I suppose kubuntu doesn't ship arm.
[01:06] <Hobbsee> libept probably needs a merge?
[01:07]  * claydoh was considering  unsubbing (again)
[01:07] <Hobbsee> or did you incorporate the dash stuff?
[01:07] <Hobbsee> mornfall: there are changes on both
[01:07] <mornfall> With merge you mean with ubuntu changes?
[01:07] <Hobbsee> yes
[01:07] <mornfall> No idea...
[01:08] <mornfall> Let me see what are those.
[01:08] <Hobbsee> well, i've no idea if they're still needed
[01:08] <Hobbsee> gcc patch, dash stuff, it appears
[01:09] <mornfall> What the hell is dash?
[01:09] <mornfall> Like the non-bash /bin/sh?
[01:09] <Hobbsee> yeah, iirc
[01:09] <Hobbsee> it's one of the release goals for lenny too, so you're supposed to know what it is.
[01:10] <mornfall> Eh.
[01:10] <mornfall> I will fix that in the next upload, then.
[01:10] <mornfall> Although I am worried that the ubuntu fix is plain wrong.
[01:10] <mornfall> Well, not worried. It is.
[01:10]  * Hobbsee has not looked at the change
[01:11] <mornfall> TOP_SRCDIR may contain spaces.
[01:11] <mornfall> Or other metacharacter trash.
[01:12] <mornfall> So  it has to be quoted, in a way or other.
[01:12] <mornfall> Not to say, that in *my* dash, ls "foo"* works.
[01:13] <mornfall> (That is 0.5.4-6)
[01:16] <mornfall> http://rafb.net/p/7uFD9j31.html
[01:17] <mornfall> Let's see #177033.
[01:18] <mornfall> Okey, so not our fault and nothing to be merged into debian package.
[01:20] <mornfall> Hobbsee: libept probably got through. Can you check whether #177033 is finally fixed?
[01:21] <mornfall> Hobbsee: (just do something like in that transcript I pasted... if it fails, you will need to merge that workaround, I guess...)
[02:09] <jjesse> evening :)
[02:09] <nosrednaekim> evening
[02:10] <mornfall> Well, thanks and bye, gotta go to bed (3:10 am, igh).
[02:23] <jjesse> i love american idol
[02:23] <jjesse> its the greatest ever
[04:22] <jjesse> argh so much of this kubuntu chpt needs to be re written
[04:43] <ScottK2> nixternal: You around?
[05:03] <Jucato> O <--- round... that is nixternal :)
[05:04] <gribelu> somehow shortcuts on my kde4 panel stopped working after todays updates .. i click the icons and nothing happends
[05:04] <Jucato> jjesse: sorry I've been useless the past weeks... so much stuff to do over here... I'll be able to really read the Adept guide next week (unless real life infringes again...)
[05:04] <nixternal> ScottK2: yo yo
[05:05] <Jucato> (keyboard shortcuts on kde4 have always been finicky...)
[05:05] <nixternal> that is true
[05:06] <gribelu> i don't mean keyboard shortcuts.. i mean umm application shortcuts
[05:06] <gribelu> icons..
[05:06] <gribelu> ya know?
[05:06] <jjesse> Jucato: no problem
[05:06] <jjesse> holy crap i just updated my hardy vm and i love the login screen
[05:06] <Jucato> hardy? kde3? kde4?
[05:06] <nixternal> kdm3 or kdm4
[05:06] <Jucato> hehe same question :P
[05:07] <Jucato> is kdm4 even themeable?
[05:07] <nixternal> ya, I want to know, because for some reason, my kdm login (kdm3) is the old default kdm login, all square and stuff
[05:10] <gribelu> kdm3 got this blue psychedelic theme today.. kdm4 is still ugly and as far as i can tell system settings->login manager still has no effect on how it looks
[05:12] <gribelu> could anyone try to see if application shortcuts work from the panel? just right click some random application in the launcher and select "add to panel".. then click the icon that appears on the panel
[05:13] <gribelu> just trying to find out if it's my fault somehow
[05:13] <jjesse> i like the kdm3 theme
[05:13] <hads> gribelu: Works here
[05:13] <gribelu> :|
[05:13] <jjesse> i never remember when in hardy i'm getting the libpython2.5.so not found in paths what do i need to install?
[05:13] <gribelu> thanks hads
[05:14] <hads> np
[05:14] <hads> doh, now I can't remove it :)
[05:15] <Jucato> jjesse: why does that always seem to happen...
[05:15] <Jucato> libpython2.5-dev?
[05:15] <jjesse> Jucato: no clue
[05:15] <gribelu> hads: it should have a right click menu .. that does work here
[05:16] <hads> Doesn't here, heh.
[05:16] <jjesse> i already have libpythonize0-dev installed
[05:16] <gribelu> something must be borked
[05:17] <Jucato> jjesse: oh.. sorry :(
[05:17] <jjesse> grumble i dont' understand why this always happens every devel version
[05:23] <nixternal> holy smokes, heath is dead :(
[05:24] <Jucato> yeah... found out 4 hours ago :(
[05:24] <Jucato> poor brokeback mountain dude...
[05:24] <nixternal> he was a damn good actor
[05:24] <nixternal> I liked him in the Patriot, A Knights Tale, and Dogtown
[05:24] <nixternal> bah, I gotta finish up these stupid flyers for tomorrow
[05:25] <Jucato> you too? :)
[05:25] <Jucato> where are you making them?
[05:25] <nixternal> does anyone know if kinkos, or whatever they are called now, will let me print from a usb stick?
[05:25] <jjesse> the whole heath thingis the only thing that is on the cable news these days
[05:25]  * Jucato had to wrestle with MS Publisher and Word 2007!!!
[05:25] <ScottK> nixternal: They will if you ask nice.
[05:25] <nixternal> I am using Scribus and Inkscape
[05:25] <jjesse> grumble running into problems reconfiguring x in hardy and changing the size
[05:25] <nixternal> isn't Kinkos like the UPS store or something now?
[05:25] <Jucato> nixternal: lucky you
[05:26] <nixternal> why lucky me?
[05:26] <jjesse> used to be fedex/kinkos
[05:26] <nixternal> ahh, ya it is Fedex
[05:26] <nixternal> it is right next door to my sushi shop
[05:26] <Jucato> nixternal: [13:25] * Jucato had to wrestle with MS Publisher and Word 2007!!! <--- that's why
[05:26] <nixternal> Jucato: is MS Publisher still a huge piece of garbage?
[05:26] <jjesse> always will be
[05:27] <Jucato> nixternal: it doesn't use Ribbons.. that's the good part :D
[05:27] <nixternal> they need to remove that from Office already...MS at least woke up and realized that with Front Page
[05:27] <nixternal> the ribbons honestly do not bother me
[05:27] <nixternal> oh, that's right, I shut them off and went with classic view, that's why :p
[05:27] <Jucato> pfft! cheater!
[05:27] <Jucato> :P
[05:27] <jjesse> i love the ribbon in office 2007
[05:27] <nixternal> come on, those things take up a lot of realestate
[05:28] <Jucato> reall men use ribbons!
[05:28] <jjesse> seriously i really enjoy how it is organized
[05:28] <Jucato> come on! after using KDE 3 you'd be used to that :P
[05:28] <Jucato> (taking up a lot of real estate)
[05:28] <nixternal> I shrink everything in KDE 3 so I have more work space
[05:28] <Jucato> jjesse: probably... unfortunately for me.. most of the stuff I needed to click on in the ribbons are on the far sides...
[05:28] <nixternal> I have my 1280x800 down to the point to where I can almost get 3 panes of code side-by-side in eclipse now :)
[05:29] <nixternal> I thought those ribbons were a usability flopmare
[05:29] <Jucato> eeek! widescreen :)
[05:29] <Jucato> oh yeah.. widescreen is good for side-by-side code I guess :)
[05:29] <jjesse> i don't care if they are a usability flopmare, i hate going back to the old version of office w/o the ribbon
[05:29] <nixternal> OK, why is that when I download something in KDE 4, it stalls out every time
[05:30] <Jucato> jjesse: it's fancy and pretty I'll give you that... but I need to get used to it.. a lot...
[05:30] <Jucato> jjesse: but it doesn't help that the UI on one OS is different from another OS... so I'll be switching a lot...
[05:30]  * Jucato can't wait for KOffice 2.0 to be available on other platforms...
[05:32]  * jjesse can't wait to figure out this stupid systemsettings problem
[05:32] <jjesse> trying to figure out why i have nothing set for screen size in my xorg.conf file
[05:34] <Jucato> displayconfig is probably the only part of guidance that never ever worked for me... even just simply switching resolutions...
[05:35] <nixternal> I use xrandr now...it is about the only thing that works as it should for me
[05:35] <nixternal> it is great for when I am doing presentations
[05:35] <Jucato> krandrtray?
[05:35] <nixternal> if that is what it is called, then yes
[05:35] <Jucato> yeah that works for me too...
[06:32] <Hobbsee> jussi01: pong
[06:33] <jussi01> heya, still having an issue, with this listadmin. any chance you could post your config again?
[06:35] <jussi01> Hobbsee: also, good to see your posts finally hit the lists...:P
[06:35] <Hobbsee> jussi01: hah.  yes.
[06:36] <Hobbsee> jussi01: what problem are you having?
[06:37] <Hobbsee> seems someone did some nice moderating
[06:37] <Hobbsee> as for why my own mails are getting moderated, i'm not sure
[08:49] <_StefanS_> morning
[08:51] <_StefanS_> Riddell: hey.. that segfault on klauncher (kde4) is also happening on gutsy/amd64
[08:52] <_StefanS_> Riddell: so I guess its kde4 after all.
[08:53] <apache|mobile_> please get a backtrace
[08:53] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: I'll try
[08:54] <_StefanS_> ouch 75megs of symbols... thats alot
[08:55] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: still want me to do a failsafe login, and run startkde from there?
[08:56] <apache|mobile_> I think this will not work for a bt
[08:56] <apache|mobile_> but you can try
[08:56] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: got another idea for getting out those debug messages?
[08:56] <apache|mobile_> _StefanS_: most probably you will have to write a wrapper script around klauncher, which starts it in gdb
[08:56] <_StefanS_> uhm ok, any commandline specifics for gdb ?
[09:12] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: all I could get hold of was a crash file from /var/crash
[09:12] <apache|mobile_> does it tell anything useful?
[09:13] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: not really .. http://enhance-it.dk/klauncher.crash
[09:13] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: there's a coredump inside in base64, dont know how to view it though
[09:14] <apache|mobile_> _StefanS_: I think there should be some trace as well
[09:14] <apache|mobile_> that crash report has been created by apport
[09:14] <apache|mobile_> so it should have created a strace somewhere as well
[09:15] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: any idea where that would be ? :)
[09:16] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: the log just says its only written that file to /var/crash
[09:17] <apache|mobile_> hm
[09:17] <apache|mobile_> apparently it should be part of that file :S
[09:20] <_StefanS_> great.
[09:31] <Riddell> Tonio_: what does current flash in konqueror do?
[09:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: doesn't work
[09:33] <Riddell> Tonio_: but does it crash konqueror?
[09:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: same issue, I'm still waiting for a fix
[09:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: no, just flash segfaults on the page
[09:45] <Riddell> imbrandon: was there any magic solution to the flashplugin-nonfree issue?
[09:45] <Riddell> imbrandon: if a newer version of flashplugin-nonfree gets installed, does it automatically download the new flash?
[09:47] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: , Riddell: apparently the latest update for kde4 on hardy fixed the klauncher issue
[09:47] <_StefanS_> working now.
[09:47] <apache|mobile_> oha
[09:47] <apache|mobile_> ohm
[09:48] <apache|mobile_> _StefanS_: did you set the default web browser setting?
[09:48] <apache|mobile_> to firefox for example
[09:48] <mornfall> Hi.
[09:48] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: only in kde3
[09:49] <apache|mobile_> very strange
[09:49] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: yea..
[09:49] <_StefanS_> anyways it works, and we will probably never know :)
[09:49] <apache|mobile_> _StefanS_: I only fixed a pointles assert in kauthorisized... very strange
[09:50] <cheguevara> hi
[09:50] <apache|mobile_> ahoy mornfall
[09:50] <apache|mobile_> ahoy cheguevara
[09:50] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: well I guess a recompile was enough
[09:50] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: fragile stuff ;)
[09:50] <apache|mobile_> nah :P
[09:50] <apache|mobile_> the only fragile stuff is kdm
[09:50] <apache|mobile_> that thing totally likes to break
[09:50] <cheguevara> should be really back now
[09:51] <cheguevara> wanna get back into doing something productive again
[09:51] <apache|mobile_> should be wiped from this planet and get a rewrite
[09:51] <cheguevara> what needs most help atm
[09:51] <apache|mobile_> cheguevara: bugfixin' I guess
[09:51] <apache|mobile_> cheguevara: can you attend the meeting today?
[09:52] <cheguevara> which timezone is that
[09:52] <cheguevara> gmt?
[09:52] <Riddell> imbrandon: yes, it does.  can we just add a debconf question "this will break konqueror, if you have a working flash you may not want to download the new version"?
[09:52] <Riddell> s/konqueror/konqueror and opera/
[09:53] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: did you notice that wallpaper issue I wrote about last night? http://enhance-it.dk/login.jpg
[09:54] <Riddell> _StefanS_: what's your resolution?
[09:54] <_StefanS_> Riddell: 1920x1200
[09:54] <cheguevara> apache|mobile_, yeah 11 gmt, i'll be there
[09:54] <_StefanS_> Riddell: smarter saw it on 1024z768 as well
[09:54] <_StefanS_> R
[09:54] <_StefanS_> Riddell: wierd thing it only happens after you type your password
[09:54] <apache|mobile_> cheguevara: ye probably wanna have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HaraldSitter/KdeFour) then
[09:55] <Riddell> _StefanS_: hrm, that wallpaper is only 1680 x 1050
[09:55] <_StefanS_> Riddell: well you probably found the issue then :)
[09:55] <cheguevara> apache|mobile_, kk, looking
[09:56] <Riddell> _StefanS_: rm -r ~/.kde/share/apps/ksplash/cache/Moodin/kubuntu; ksplash --test
[09:57] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yep I can reproduce it
[09:57] <_StefanS_> Riddell: same thing.
[09:58] <_StefanS_> Riddell: maybe we should just use the background currently in kdm when it starts (?) because it seems to be of the right size
[09:58]  * apache|mobile_ supposes it's just scaled
[09:58] <_StefanS_> maybe
[09:58] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I noticed it yesterday, not today
[09:59] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: did kubuntu-default-settings change yesterday ?
[09:59] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: /etc/kde3/backgroundrc : WallpaperMode=Scaled
[09:59] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: so you're right
[09:59] <apache|mobile_> I am always right :P
[09:59] <apache|mobile_> unless I am wrong
[09:59] <_StefanS_> precisely.
[10:00] <_StefanS_> pretty much like anyone else :D
[10:00] <Riddell> _StefanS_: wget http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/Theme.rc && sudo mv Theme.rc /usr/share/apps/ksplash/Themes/kubuntu/Theme.rc
[10:00] <Riddell> rm -r ~/.kde/share/apps/ksplash/cache/Moodin/kubuntu; ksplash --test
[10:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: fyi, kmail works again after update
[10:01] <_StefanS_> Riddell: that fixed it ;) - i noticed you put a patch to disable scaling sometime in the past for moodin just now
[10:05] <_StefanS_> anyone else have two batteries on hardy (on a laptop obviously)
[10:10] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: I think it would be really cool to alter that logout effect so the desktop fades completely away once you have selected to logout/restart/shutdown
[10:11] <apache|mobile_> _StefanS_: bugs.kde.org
[10:11] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: nawp, I'm talking about a kubuntu only patch :D
[10:12] <apache|mobile_> no advocate from me
[10:13] <apache|mobile_> there is really only very little reason to patch anything kubuntu-only
[10:14] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: well you should ask Tonio_ about kubuntu-only patches.. because there has been alot really in the past ;)
[10:14] <apache|mobile_> yeah
[10:15] <apache|mobile_> well
[10:15] <apache|mobile_> should change with kde 4
[10:15] <apache|mobile_> only reason to patch something is to change default settings, create branding or fix kubuntu specific issues
[10:16] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: well yes.. but you could argue that it would be a default setting also ;)
[10:16] <apache|mobile_> nope
[10:16] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: its a matter of definition.
[10:16] <apache|mobile_> you can't
[10:16] <apache|mobile_> you change a fundamental appearance
[10:16] <apache|mobile_> _StefanS_: bugs.kde.org
[10:17] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: right..
[10:17] <apache|mobile_> otherwise I don't support it
[10:18] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: well thats okay, but then you will just end up with a generic kde4.
[10:18] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: but thats just my opinion.
[10:18] <apache|mobile_> what's it the problem with that?
[10:19] <apache|mobile_> why do we use KDE anyway, when we don't agree with their stuff?
[10:19] <cheguevara> heh
[10:19] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: well thats a very black/white approach dont you think ? :)
[10:20] <apache|mobile_> nope
[10:20] <apache|mobile_> this is a change that can be valuable for KDE
[10:20] <apache|mobile_> if they decide it's no good
[10:20] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: yes.. if you ever get it done in kde via bugs.kde.org. Good luck.
[10:20] <apache|mobile_> why should we decide it is
[10:21] <apache|mobile_> _StefanS_: so talk to lubos personally
[10:21] <_StefanS_> Riddell: it seems like that change on moodin made the progress text misaligned
[10:22] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: yep maybe I will do that :)
[10:22] <Riddell> _StefanS_: in which way?  it's centred for me, could do with being moved up into the lighter background
[10:23] <_StefanS_> Riddell: the icons that show the different steps is fine, but the "Loading desktop..." etc is diplayed below the box
[10:27] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: I hope you're not angry with me ? :)
[10:27] <apache|mobile_> _StefanS_: nope, I can understand your point
[10:27] <_StefanS_> apache|mobile_: great ok :)
[10:31] <Riddell> _StefanS_: right, that has always been the case
[10:32] <_StefanS_> oh ok, maybe i just havent noticed :)
[10:32] <_StefanS_> could we enhance that text, maybe make it bold?
[10:32] <_StefanS_> you cant really see it that clearly
[10:32] <Riddell> _StefanS_: moving it up would probably be best
[10:33] <_StefanS_> indeed
[10:34] <Riddell> _StefanS_: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/Theme.rc
[10:34] <_StefanS_> trying.
[10:35] <_StefanS_> Riddell: needs about two more lines down
[10:37] <Riddell> lines?
[10:37] <Riddell> edit StatusCoords and let me know what works
[10:37] <_StefanS_> sure
[10:38] <_StefanS_> Riddell: 520 works for me
[10:39] <Riddell> _StefanS_: ok, we'll use that
[10:39] <_StefanS_> cool
[10:39] <_StefanS_> and thanks.
[10:39] <Riddell> I'll wait and see if the artist gets back to us with a larger version first
[10:39] <_StefanS_> yup
[10:40] <Riddell> _StefanS_: doesn't it look bad on your rediculously high resolution display?
[10:41] <_StefanS_> Riddell: well not really, I mean the text could probably be black instead of the greyish to enhance the readability
[10:41] <_StefanS_> Riddell: the rest is fine really
[10:43] <_StefanS_> Riddell: #000000 for the StatusColor and we're good (just tried it, and it improves the readability quite alot, given the transparency in the background(s) etc..)
[10:43] <Riddell> _StefanS_: ok, we'll do that
[10:44] <_StefanS_> kool.
[10:44] <_StefanS_> I actually have two rediculously high resolution displays btw.
[10:44] <_StefanS_> ;)
[11:50] <mornfall> So.
[11:59] <mornfall> When soyuz picks up, adept 3 should be installable from https://launchpad.net/~me-mornfall/+archive -- mind the instructions, though!
[11:59] <mornfall> (Testers welcome.)
[12:00] <jussi01> mornfall: cool, Ill give it a go when I get home. where would you like bugs to? lp?
[12:02] <mornfall> jussi01: Maybe just private mail.
[12:02] <mornfall> Or here.
[12:02] <mornfall> Should be easiest for both.
[12:05] <jussi01> mornfall: sure
[12:06] <Riddell> how exciting
[12:11] <_StefanS_> mornfall: is it qt4 ?
[12:13] <Riddell> that would be the defining feature :)
[12:40] <mornfall> Well, there are others...
[12:40] <jpatrick> oh, no, gutsy packages..
[12:45] <mornfall> --> work, now. See you later.
[12:49]  * apachelogger__ cripples packages for amarok nightly builds
[12:50] <emonkey> apachelogger__, prolinux schreibt wenigstens das es Pakete für "ubuntu" gibt ...
[12:50] <emonkey> meine amarok2
[12:51] <apachelogger__> emonkey: was sollten sie sonst schreiben?
[12:51] <apachelogger__> golem hat das auch geschrieben
[12:51]  * emonkey fände kubuntu angemessener
[12:52] <emonkey> und verlinkt haben sie die englische anstatt die deutsche news
[12:52] <emonkey> egal
[12:52] <apachelogger__> emonkey: naja, prolinux... die meisten editoren sind gnomes oder fluxbox zeugs user
[12:52] <apachelogger__> golem hat kubuntu geschrieben
[12:53] <apachelogger__> viel besser
[12:53] <emonkey> man sollte meinen das ein Linux Magazin im gegensatz zu einem Tech Magazin differenzierter schreibt ...
[12:54] <apachelogger__> emonkey: naja, ich bin sowieso für die differenzierung von ubuntu als distro und ubuntu als projekt
[12:54] <apachelogger__> ist, und bleibt, ein marketingtechnischer teufelskreis
[12:54] <emonkey> hmja stimmt schon
[12:55] <apachelogger__> http://forum.golem.de/list.php?22615
[12:55] <apachelogger__> hehe
[12:55] <apachelogger__> flame++
[12:55] <_StefanS_>  wtf.. :)
[12:55] <_StefanS_> teufelkreis rules
[12:57] <apachelogger__> lol
[12:57] <apachelogger__> emonkey: http://forum.golem.de/read.php?22615,1197193,1197193#msg-1197193
[12:57] <apachelogger__> manche verstehen das mit dem _pre_ release nicht ganz ;-)
[12:57] <apachelogger__> I luv windows :D
[12:58] <emonkey> ^ ^
[12:58] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: what did you expect? *g*
[12:58] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: da sie VORSCHAU geschrieben habe, war ich mir doch sicher, dass jeder versteht, dass das nicht die final ist ;-)
[12:59] <Nightrose> ;-) lass es dir eine lehre sein und sei _niemals_ sicher
[12:59] <Nightrose> du wirst bei sowas immer enttäuscht werden ;-)
[12:59] <apachelogger__> neehee
[12:59] <apachelogger__> die hätten screenshots posten sollen
[12:59] <apachelogger__> alles golems schuld!
[12:59] <Nightrose> hehe
[12:59] <apachelogger__> aber kubuntu steht :D
[12:59] <apachelogger__> muahahaha
[13:00] <apachelogger__> eines tags...
[13:03] <_StefanS_> das ist aber klasse egon
[13:03] <apachelogger__> lol
[13:03] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HaraldSitter/KdeFour/MigrationWizard#head-953162b13c5cfd81aeacd3e7baf18bc895dc33d3
[13:04] <apachelogger__> how do you like my nu graphics?
[13:04] <Nightrose> hehe perfect apachelogger__
[13:04] <apachelogger__> make everything even more complicate, don't they? :P
[13:04] <Nightrose> indeed
[13:04] <Nightrose> ;-)
[13:05]  * apachelogger__ needs an app to properly draw process flows
[13:05] <emonkey> take latex
[13:05] <emonkey> :P
[13:05] <apachelogger__> Oo
[13:05] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: what did you use for that?
[13:05] <iRon> apachelogger__: need to learn UML ;-)
[13:06] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: l'inkscape, bin sûr
[13:06] <Nightrose> hehe
[13:06] <apachelogger__> iRon: umbrello :P
[13:06] <apachelogger__> that thing is... I don't exactly get how to use umbrello for what I want to do ;-)
[13:06] <iRon> apachelogger__: draw use case and flow diagrams :)
[13:14] <rivo> hi, can anyone tell if I patched kdesudo to ignore the --nonewdcop argument, would it break something?
[13:15] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: jezzz @ google analytics...
[13:15] <Nightrose> damn
[13:15] <Nightrose> that is crazy
[13:18] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: .8 caused more visitors
[13:19] <Nightrose> really? man...
[13:20] <Nightrose> anyway I got quite some visitors from the AI to my site ;-)
[13:22] <Riddell> rivo: it should break kcontrol
[13:22] <Riddell> rivo: why would you?
[13:23] <rivo> Riddell: bug 182403, i.e. kcontrol is broken already
[13:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182403 in kdesudo "kdesudo --nonewdcop option breaks the system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182403
[13:23] <rivo> Riddell: I tested with patched kdesudo 2.0 package and systemsettings worked fine (unlike with unpatched kdesudo) but I'm wondering if it might break something else
[13:25] <_StefanS_> rivo: you should ask Tonio_ about that kdesudo switch
[13:25] <_StefanS_> rivo: he might know something
[13:26] <Riddell> what changed in 1.1-0ubuntu2.2?
[13:27] <rivo> Riddell: #155032 was fixed, it might be that there's some kind of permissions problem with dcop now
[13:28] <Riddell> best check with Tonio_
[13:29] <rivo> ok
[13:30] <Tonio_> rivo: that's a gutsy problem right ?
[13:30] <rivo> Tonio_: yep
[13:30] <Tonio_> fixed with the latest kdesudo
[13:31] <Tonio_> everyone is free to provide or suggest a backport from hardy to gutsy....
[13:31] <_StefanS_> Tonio_:  ;)
[13:31] <Tonio_> even an -updates update will do the trick :)
[13:31] <rivo> Tonio_: latest is 2.0?
[13:31] <Tonio_> rivo: yep, on hardy only at the moment
[13:31] <Tonio_> rivo: fixes all bugs reported to launchpad afaik
[13:32] <rivo> Tonio_: I tried that, built the package for gutsy (using hardy's sources), it still had the same problem
[13:32] <Tonio_> hum.....
[13:32] <Tonio_> lemme look at your bug
[13:33] <rivo> might it be that some other package is buggy then?
[13:34] <Tonio_> rivo: I can't seem to reproduce....
[13:34] <Tonio_> rivo: I suspect this is somehow linked to the old random bug we have with the installer
[13:34] <Tonio_> rivo: kde desktop database isn't created correctly
[13:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: wasn't that fixed before gutsy ?
[13:35] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes
[13:35] <Tonio_> rivo: your problm is that within the root user, kcmshell doesn't find the clock.desktop module, while they are found with the current user
[13:35] <Tonio_> rivo: try this :
[13:35] <rivo> Tonio_: for some reason it only seems to be affecting new installations, on my usual system everything works fine, too, but on clean install it doesn't
[13:35] <Tonio_> login as root and load the root profile :
[13:35] <Tonio_> sudo -i
[13:35] <Tonio_> then kcmshell --list
[13:36] <Tonio_> even better "kcmshell --list | grep -i clock"
[13:36] <Tonio_> you should have no result
[13:36] <Tonio_> same command should work as your current user
[13:37] <Tonio_> rivo: another way to test is install gksudo and test with this :)
[13:38] <Tonio_> rivo: the difference with the 1.1-0ubuntu2.2 upgrade is that then the root profile is used instead of the user's
[13:38] <Tonio_> rivo: that's also the way gksudo works, and so should confirm your kde desktop database issue
[13:38] <mornfall> Hm.
[13:38] <mornfall> Anyone can explain this?
[13:38] <rivo> Tonio_: ok, I'll boot to the clean system with my other computer and try
[13:38] <mornfall>    1190 Setting up kdelibs5-dev (4.0.0-0ubuntu4) ...
[13:39] <mornfall>    1221 CMake Error: ERROR: Could not find KDE4 kde4-config
[13:39] <Tonio_> rivo: as I said, that's to what I know a bug with the livecd installer
[13:39] <Tonio_> rivo: works on my system cause I always use the alternate cd
[13:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: We should take care of desktop file database and kcontrol modules within a livecd session
[13:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: I suspect it is still broken somehow
[13:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: and afacr that was due to the filesystem used on the livecd
[13:41] <Riddell> Tonio_: how would the filesystem affect it?
[13:41] <Riddell> mornfall: that'll be our non-standard install location /usr/lib/kde4
[13:41] <mornfall> Grah.
[13:41] <mornfall> Anyone with a fix?
[13:42] <mornfall> Well, it should be fixed in your version of cmake then?
[13:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: don't remember but that was our conclusion since there was a difference between the livecd and alternate on that point after the installation
[13:42] <Riddell> mornfall: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kde.mk
[13:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's the famous "empty kcontrol" bug....
[13:42] <Tonio_> every kcm modules going in the kmenu in "found items" section
[13:43] <Tonio_> rivo: can you please let me know if it works any better with gksudo ? that's important to correctly diagnose the issue :)
[13:45] <rivo> Tonio_: turned out that my "clean" system isn't that clean anymore and it works there... I'll test with gutsy livecd but it'll take a bit more time
[13:47] <mornfall> Riddell: Do you have the cmake.mk as well?
[13:47] <Riddell> mornfall: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/cmake.mk  same as debian
[13:47] <Tonio_> rivo: don't you have a machine where the problem appears ?
[13:47] <mornfall> Riddell: There's a include debian/cdbs/cmake.mk with some bug reference...
[13:47] <mornfall> I'll try it that way then.
[13:50] <Riddell> mornfall: yes, same as debian-qt-kde I should have said
[13:50] <mornfall> Ah. Well, I built with standard cmake.mk...
[13:50] <mornfall> (In Debian, that is.)
[13:51] <apachelogger__> hm
[13:51] <apachelogger__> Tonio_: the famous bug
[13:51] <apachelogger__> in KDE 4 that is?
[13:52] <mornfall> Riddell: Is that just s,/usr,/usr/lib/kde4, in .install, or are the bits more dispersed?
[13:52] <mornfall> (I am trying now...)
[13:52] <mornfall> Hm.
[13:52] <Riddell> mornfall: that should work
[13:53] <Riddell> unless you have qt plugins
[13:53] <Riddell> also etc to usr/lib/kde4/etc
[13:54] <rivo> Tonio_: not anymore, the bug magically gets fixed after using kdesudo without --nonewdcop and seems that sometimes it gets fixed permanently... odd, I know
[13:55] <rivo> Tonio_: on livecd, after updating kdesudo, kcmshell --list | grep clock   as root only prints out a bunch of dcop errors
[13:55] <rivo> Tonio_: should I also try with gksudo?
[13:55] <mornfall> Ok, reuploaded. Hopefully it works better this time.
[13:55] <Tonio_> rivo: yep, that would be nice
[13:56] <Tonio_> rivo: note that another possibility is that the database creates at first run since you are a different user
[13:56] <Tonio_> rivo: there might be an issue the very first time
[13:56] <Tonio_> rivo: I doubt that can be fixed on the kdesudo side, as sudo -i or even gksudo should have the same problem
[13:57] <Tonio_> rivo: the issue is more in kdebase or livecd imho
[13:57] <rivo> Tonio_: it also happened after installing the system onto hdd and not just on the first run
[13:58] <Tonio_> hum.......
[13:58] <Tonio_> rivo: well I can't reproduce here ans only have one machine
[13:58] <rivo> Tonio_: the whole reason I'm asking is that I'm making a remastered cd based on kubuntu gutsy, so if you can suggest some kind of workaround it would be nice :-)
[13:58] <Tonio_> rivo: it would be nice if you can investigate and test with gksudo and sudo -i on a machine where the issue is reproductible
[13:58] <rivo> Tonio_: what's the command I should use with gksu?  gksu kcmshell --list ?
[13:59] <Tonio_> yep
[13:59] <Tonio_> well gksudo kcmshell clock
[13:59] <Tonio_> eventually
[13:59] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~apachelogger/tmp/migration-paths.png does this make it any more understandable?
[13:59] <Tonio_> and also please compare the module list with kdesudo 2 and gksudo
[13:59] <Nightrose> *checking*
[13:59] <Tonio_> rivo: if there is no difference, then the problem is outside of kdesudo
[14:00] <rivo> Tonio_: hmm, with gksu it works, it runs kbuildsycoca and then prints the list of modules
[14:00] <Tonio_> rivo: also, only use kdesudo2 for your tests, issues with systemsettings are well known with 1.4
[14:00] <Tonio_> rivo: and with kdesudo 2 ?
[14:00] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: hmm not sure :/    not really IMHO
[14:01] <apachelogger__> ok, so that whole migration stuff is too complex :P
[14:01] <Nightrose> it is complex jep
[14:01] <jdavies> cheguevara: yo
[14:02] <rivo> Tonio_: well, now, after using gksu, even kdesudo (1.1) works
[14:02] <Tonio_> rivo: seems that I can reproduce that one after deleting my .kde
[14:02] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: maybe make it more clear what the states are and what needs to happen there
[14:02] <Tonio_> rivo: interesting.....
[14:02] <rivo> Tonio_: as said, not using kdesudo's --nonewdcop options fixes it, at least for this session
[14:02] <rivo> Tonio_: so after that even --nonewdcop works
[14:02] <apachelogger__> Nightrose: that is pretty clear in the description :P
[14:03] <Nightrose> apachelogger__: ah ok
[14:03] <apachelogger__> state 1 = never done anything, state 2 = migrated to KDE 3, state 3 = migrated kde3 and 4
[14:03] <Nightrose> ok
[14:03] <Tonio_> rivo: gksudo give me an empty list.....
[14:03] <mornfall> Ok, it's queued again, so we'll see what happens this time.
[14:07] <Tonio_> rivo: still can't reproduce in fact....
[14:07] <Tonio_> rivo: kcmshell --list gives me an empty list, but I can start any module
[14:07] <Tonio_> rivo: I completly deleted my /root/.config and /root/.kde
[14:07] <Tonio_> rivo: I can start kdesudo --nonewdcop "kcmshell media"
[14:08] <Tonio_> rivo: works like a charm here
[14:08] <Tonio_> rivo: kdesudo doesn't print the output so you don't see kbuildsyscoca running but it does
[14:09] <Tonio_> rivo: with or without nonewdcop, no change on my side....
[14:10] <Tonio_> rivo what if you compare those commands, with no /root/.kde
[14:10] <Tonio_> rivo: gksudo "kcmshell media"
[14:10] <Tonio_> rivo: kdesudo "kcmshell media"
[14:11] <Tonio_> start with kdesudo of course, since gksudo seems to "fix"
[14:15] <rivo> Tonio_: I went back to my installed test system where it had started working before
[14:15] <rivo> Tonio_: I deleted a bunch of files there, lets see if it works now...
[14:15] <Tonio_> rivo: oki, thanks :)
[14:17] <rivo> Tonio_: yay, it's broken again :-)
[14:18] <rivo> Tonio_: I deleted /root/.kde /home/rivo/.kde /var/tmp/kde* /tmp/*
[14:18] <rivo> and then rebooted
[14:20] <Tonio_> lemme try
[14:20] <Tonio_> so kcmshell media doesn't work right ?
[14:20] <Tonio_> let's reboot...
[14:21] <mornfall> Dum di dum di dum.
[14:24] <blizzzek> hi
[14:24] <Tonio_> rivo: can't seem to reproduce here but I have some things to fix :
[14:24] <Tonio_> rivo: I'll fix kdesudo for terminal output, so that we can see what happens exactly
[14:25] <Tonio_> rivo: also, kdesudo seems to stop any process when this process detaches himself
[14:25] <rivo> Tonio_: forgot to tell you that I removed /root/.ICEAuthority as well
[14:25] <Tonio_> rivo: for example kdesudo amarok doesn't work here
[14:25] <Tonio_> rivo: shoulnd't be used anyway
[14:25] <rivo> Tonio_: kdesudo -- kcmshell --list   didn't work, with or without --nonewdcop
[14:25] <Tonio_> the users iceauthority is used in the first place, otherwise it wouldn't work at all
[14:25] <Tonio_> rivo: well you don't get the output, that's what I said
[14:26] <rivo> Tonio_: gksudo -- kcmshell --list   worked and after that  kdesudo started working as well
[14:26] <Tonio_> rivo: btw I still can't reproduce, but there are things to improve in kdesudo
[14:26] <rivo> oh, and, that was still with kdesudo 1.1
[14:26] <Tonio_> rivo: look at kde-apps when you see 2.1 is beeing released, then ping me again, so that we can give a second debug session ;)
[14:26] <rivo> Tonio_: I can also try with 2.0 but that's going to take some more time
[14:27] <rivo> Tonio_: ok :-)
[14:27] <Tonio_> rivo: well indeed that would be nice, as those are completly different....
[14:27] <Tonio_> rivo: so while I change those things in it, take your time to retest with kdesudo 2
[14:27] <Tonio_> and then come back so that we can test again and improve kdesudo :)
[14:28] <rivo> Tonio_: will do :-)
[14:33] <Riddell> ryanakca: Sime is right here
[14:37]  * apachelogger__ notes that life has become boring without kde4 package breaks :(
[14:38]  * Nightrose tells apachelogger__ that there are enough bugs to fix in the packages ;-)
[14:38] <apachelogger__> nono
[14:38] <apachelogger__> in the software
[14:38] <apachelogger__> not the packages :P
[14:38] <Nightrose> like kget-kde4 crashing when adding a new download while it is minimized to the tray
[14:38] <Nightrose> hehe
[14:38] <apachelogger__> there is only one package related bug!
[14:39] <apachelogger__> and that are the hell annoying dbus error messages
[14:39] <ScottK> apachelogger__: Is guty-backports fixed too?
[14:39] <apachelogger__> was it broken?
[14:40]  * apachelogger__ didn't really do anything about backports at any point
[14:40] <apachelogger__> <-- hardy boy
[14:40] <ScottK> I've seen complaints.
[14:40] <apachelogger__> probably some packages which haven't been backported
[14:40]  * apachelogger__ takes a look
[14:40] <ScottK> apachelogger__: OK,  Well it'd be good if that were checked/fixed up too (since you're bored).
[14:41] <apachelogger__> ScottK: hehe, life is boring, but I'm not bored, there is just no entertainment :P
[14:42] <apachelogger__> ScottK: yeah, some backports are missing, what should I do?
[14:42] <apachelogger__> report bugs on gutsy-backports?
[14:43] <apachelogger__> or Riddell just could backport them
[14:45] <apachelogger__> missing: kdeaccessibility-kde4, kdeadmin-kde4, kdeartwork-kde4, keedu-kde4
[14:45] <ScottK> Riddell can just backport them, but you may as well write a gutsy-backports bug so he has it for easy reference.
[14:45] <apachelogger__> technically also some should be removed
[14:45] <ScottK> Ping me and I'll wave it through.
[14:45]  * apachelogger__ reports a bug
[14:45] <ScottK> apachelogger__: I'm not sure if we can do that.  I'll check.
[14:46] <ScottK> apachelogger__: Ping me when you've got the bug done.  Please test build them in a gutsy environment.
[14:47] <apachelogger__> well
[14:47] <jpatrick> (they build in ppa)
[14:47] <apachelogger__> well
[14:47] <apachelogger__> jpatrick: with changes
[14:47] <apachelogger__> at least kdelibs for example did until yesterday
[14:48] <apachelogger__> ScottK: since I make all packages work on gutsy as well, for easy backports in the ppa, I can do this at ones with the other transitions
[14:48] <apachelogger__> I only touched kdeadmin so far I think
[14:49] <apachelogger__> of course that takes longer
[14:50] <ScottK> Since we started to backport KDE4 in gutsy-backports, I think it ought to get updated now that things have stabilized a bit.
[14:51] <apachelogger__> ScottK: well isn't all that stable
[14:51] <apachelogger__> at least one item on today's meeting agenda can cause a 100% update
[14:51] <apachelogger__> which is one that makes totally sense for gutsy as well
[14:52] <Hobbsee> erk.  meeting
[14:52] <ScottK> apachelogger__: What time?
[14:52] <apachelogger__> ScottK: 23 utc
[14:52] <apachelogger__> see topic :P
[14:53] <ScottK> Right.  Thanks.
[14:59] <rivo> Tonio_: btw, you haven't updated version number in configure.in.in, so kdesudo --version still outputs 1.1 ;-)
[15:01] <Tonio_> ah......... fixing ;)
[15:03] <rivo> Tonio_: other than broken output, kdesudo 2.0 behaves just like 1.1 - it's broken until I run gksudo
[15:07] <Tonio_> rivo: oki, I'll try to fix toonight
[15:28] <mornfall> Riddell:    1716 debian/cdbs/kde.mk:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk: No such            file or directory
[15:29] <mornfall> Riddell: Anything I should know about that?
[15:30] <mornfall> Riddell: (Build-Depends: quilt?)
[15:30] <Riddell> mornfall: yes you need add the build-depend
[15:30] <Riddell> debian-kde is moving to quilt (I still havn't figured it out myself :)
[15:32] <mornfall> At least I keep soyuz properly fed.
[15:32] <mornfall> Nvm, back to hacking LVM.
[15:43] <mhb> hi folks
[15:44] <Hobbsee> hiya
[15:49] <Hobbsee> Riddell: er, do we normally reject or discard posts from people who aren't subscribed to k-u@ ?
[15:49] <Riddell> Hobbsee: reject
[15:49] <Hobbsee> cool.  changed back
[16:08] <mhb> nixternal: you're the Flash expert around here - do you know how hard would it be to offer Flash to be installed on demand in Konqi?
[16:08] <mhb> or anyone else, really
[16:14] <Riddell> mhb: it is
[16:14] <Riddell> of course the main problem is that it doesn't work currently
[16:14] <mhb> is it?
[16:14] <mhb> hmm
[16:15] <mhb> yes, I know the newest Flash broke everything.
[16:15] <mhb> Riddell: by the way, have you read this: http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/articles/2008/01/07/if-you-want-to-bitch-get-your-b-y-facts-straight-at-least
[16:16] <mhb> I've stumbled upon that blog post, and it says that the newest kaffeine could be somehow embedded into Konqueror
[16:20] <mhb> which might be beneficial for us, right?
[16:36] <Riddell> mhb: it might but I don't think it's javascript support is as good, e.g. it doesn't work on bbc.co.uk
[16:36] <Riddell> Tonio_ would know more though
[16:38] <Tonio_> mhb: kaffeine can but using xcb in the first place
[16:38] <mhb> Tonio_: that's what the article says.
[16:38] <Tonio_> mhb: and xcb doesn't have opengl support yet, which is a real problem
[16:39] <mhb> hrm.
[16:39] <Tonio_> not all cards have working xv support (mine doesn't
[16:39] <mhb> what about the new kaffeine? is it usable without the xcb enabled?
[16:41] <Tonio_> yep but will crash konqueror
[16:42] <mhb> hmm
[16:44] <mhb> too bad.
[16:44] <mornfall> Hm, so it is building again. Let's see.
[16:47] <mornfall> Failed on i386 and successful on others.
[16:47] <mornfall> dh_buildinfo broke down.
[16:48] <mornfall> Anyone can check what the hell happened?
[16:48] <mornfall> I am rather lost.
[16:49] <Riddell> mornfall: what is dh_buildinfo
[16:50] <mornfall> Riddell: debhelper program that generates /usr/share/doc/<package>/buildinfo.gz
[16:51] <mornfall> (Which has the package versions from the buildroot in it.)
[16:51] <Riddell> let me try a test build
[16:52] <mornfall> The weird thing is that it worked in the other 2 arches.
[16:54] <Riddell> mornfall: it'll be arch indep only?
[16:54] <Riddell> hmm, no
[16:54] <mornfall> Well, it works in i386 Debian buildroot.
[16:54] <coreymon77> hi everybody
[16:55] <coreymon77> 23:00 in my time zone?
[16:55] <coreymon77> what time will it be for me
[16:55] <Riddell> likely you'll know what timezone you're in better than anyone else
[16:55] <vorian> @now
[16:55] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: January 23 2008, 16:55:51 - Next meeting: Edubuntu meeting in 3 hours 4 minutes
[16:55] <mornfall> It also works on amd64, which is a little weird.
[16:56] <mornfall> (On Hardy...)
[16:56] <vorian> Riddell: what channel is the meeting going to be held on?
[16:56] <Riddell> #ubuntu-meeting, same as always
[16:56] <coreymon77> @eastern
[16:56] <coreymon77> @est
[16:56] <coreymon77> blah
[16:56] <mhb> @now
[16:56] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: January 23 2008, 16:57:00 - Next meeting: Edubuntu meeting in 3 hours 2 minutes
[16:57] <vorian> coreymon77: it will be 6pm then :)
[16:57] <coreymon77> im in toronto
[16:57] <mhb> coreymon77: just do the math :o)
[16:57] <mhb> coreymon77: 23:00 - 17:00 = time left to the meeting
[16:57] <Riddell> mornfall: well it fails when I build locally, no idea why
[16:58] <mornfall> Riddell: The buildinfo thing or otherwise?
[16:58] <mornfall> Riddell: What happens if you comment it out in debian/rules?
[16:58] <Riddell> mornfall: yeah
[16:58] <Riddell> dh_buildinfo                        ldinfo.gz
[16:58] <Riddell> install: cannot create regular file `debian/adept/usr/share/doc/adept/buildinfo.gz': No such file or directory
[16:58] <coreymon77> oh hey, what do you knwo
[16:58] <mornfall> Riddell: can you check whether the doc directory is there?
[16:58] <coreymon77> ill probably actually be able to make this one
[16:58] <coreymon77> finally
[16:58] <coreymon77> this is the first meeting i have ever been actually able to make
[16:59] <mornfall> It should be midnight CET IIRC, so I may be there as well. If that would help any.
[16:59] <Riddell> mornfall: it's not but it's doesn't help if I add mkdir -p debian/adept/usr/share/doc/adept/ to the build rule
[16:59] <mornfall> Riddell: Great.
[16:59] <mornfall> Riddell: Maybe strace dh_buildinfo?
[16:59] <coreymon77> mornfall: my problem is that the meetings always fall in the middle of the day
[16:59] <coreymon77> and i have school
[16:59] <Riddell> mornfall: removing dh_buildinfo makes it build fine
[16:59] <mornfall> It's probably borken beyond repair, so I'll just disable it and reupload again.
[17:00] <mornfall> O-okey.
[17:00] <coreymon77> so, how is kde4 coming along
[17:00] <coreymon77> still buggy
[17:00] <coreymon77> ?
[17:00] <Riddell> /usr/lib/kde4/bin/adept_manager4_i386.deban/adept/u
[17:00] <Riddell> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'Xapian::DatabaseOpeningError'
[17:00] <Riddell> mornfall: crashes on start
[17:01] <coreymon77> thats a problem
[17:01] <mornfall> Riddell: The instructions say you need to first run update-apt-xapian-index (as root).
[17:01] <coreymon77> anyways, im gonna want to wait for more programs to be ported
[17:01] <Riddell> ah, didn't see any instructions :)
[17:01] <coreymon77> i dont think i have the hd space to run both kde4 and 3 alongside
[17:01] <mornfall> Riddell: Well, that's because they are in the PPA page of mine.
[17:02] <coreymon77> Riddell: youre having problems?!
[17:02] <coreymon77> wow
[17:02] <coreymon77> thats a first
[17:02] <coreymon77> :P
[17:02] <mornfall> I suppose I could add that to post-inst or something, but it really needs to be solved properly so this is just a temporary solution anyway.
[17:03] <mornfall> (The debian/changelog is getting somewhat funny.)
[17:03] <mornfall> Hm. Hm.
[17:03] <mornfall> Is it possible to have hardy pbuilder on debian?
[17:04] <coreymon77> you would think that with kde4 being such a big release, they would have it be stable when they release
[17:04] <coreymon77> but the again
[17:04] <coreymon77> this is a linux release
[17:04] <mornfall> (Ie. can Debian debootstrap create a Hardy chroot?)
[17:04] <coreymon77> since when are those ever stable on release
[17:04] <ScottK> Tonio_: The current Klamav package is now available in dapper-backports, FYI.
[17:04] <Tonio_> ScottK super :)
[17:04] <yuriy> coreymon77: i assume you've read the .0 articles?
[17:04] <yuriy> coreymon77: and you should really try it for yourself
[17:05] <coreymon77> and btw, is the release after hardy gonna be lts, there are only so many more upgrades my old dell box can take, but i want to end on an lts
[17:05] <Riddell> mornfall: yes, looks like it http://packages.debian.org/sid/all/debootstrap/filelist
[17:05]  * mornfall hands coreymon77 a bucket of cold water.
[17:06] <mornfall> yuriy: Hi!
[17:06] <mornfall> So, let's try.
[17:06] <coreymon77> yuriy: i think my dell box has passed its stage of trying out linux related things
[17:06] <coreymon77> yuriy: know what i mean?
[17:06] <Riddell> mornfall: crashes on Apply Changes, but all good until then
[17:07]  * yuriy is really happy about the taskbar being fixed already in SVN 
[17:07] <mornfall> Riddell: Running as root?
[17:07] <yuriy> mornfall: hi
[17:07] <coreymon77> mornfall: why the water?
[17:07] <Riddell> mornfall: yes
[17:07] <mornfall> Riddell: Hmm.
[17:07] <coreymon77> yuriy: and what articles
[17:07] <mornfall> Riddell: Ah, are you installing something not in cache? I haven't even tried the download code...
[17:08] <mornfall> (And there's definitely no progress.)
[17:08] <nareshov> How do I move a live gutsy installation to hardy? Thought I'd look for bugs and stuff :D
[17:09] <nareshov> Is it safe to s/gutsy/hardy/ on sources.list ?
[17:09] <nareshov> and dist-upgrade ?
[17:09] <Riddell> mornfall: ooh, it worked!
[17:10] <ScottK> nareshov: It's a live CD.  What's the worst that could happen?
[17:10] <yuriy> woo alpha1
[17:11] <Riddell> mornfall: how does it talk to dpkg?
[17:11] <nareshov> ScottK: can I upgrade from a gutsy installation to hardy ?
[17:11] <mornfall> Riddell: What do you mean? About the progress bar or about dpkg's controlling terminal?
[17:11] <Riddell> mornfall: about the lack of embedded terminal
[17:12] <mornfall> Riddell: Well, there's probably no way I could embed konsole from KDE4 and have dpkg run there...
[17:12] <Riddell> mornfall: right, so what does it do instead?
[17:12] <mornfall> Riddell: So it uses adept's own terminal.
[17:12] <mornfall> Riddell: (As in, it runs the same way as apt.)
[17:12] <mornfall> Riddell: Are any packages that require controlling terminal in maintainer scripts in the archive?
[17:13] <mornfall> I will implement a debconf frontend and conffile handler.
[17:13] <Riddell> mornfall: well, there /shouldn't/ be, but that's not a guarantee
[17:13] <ScottK> nareshov: I haven't done it, but I'd guess the worst that would happen is you reboot again.
[17:13] <mornfall> Riddell: Right, but I'd rather not fork konsole again.
[17:13] <Riddell> mornfall: but any package which does is a bug so is target for fixing or hand waving
[17:13] <mornfall> It's tiresome.
[17:13] <nareshov> ScottK: so the way to do it would be to mod the sources.list and dist-upgrade right?
[17:14] <coreymon77> Riddell: yes, supposed to, since when has linux ever done what its supposed to do? :P
[17:14] <mornfall> Riddell: It appears pbuilder happily created a hardy buildroot. Yay.
[17:14] <ScottK> nareshov: That would be one way to do it.
[17:15] <nareshov> k
[17:16] <coreymon77> later everyone
[17:16] <yuriy> mornfall: shouldn't the sidebar taken from okular be mentioned in debian/copyright?
[17:16] <mornfall> yuriy: Probably should.
[17:16] <mornfall> yuriy: Patches welcome : - ).
[17:17] <mornfall> yuriy: But I will fix that before final myself, if you'd rather not.
[17:18] <mornfall> (Well, probably quite sooner than that, anyway.)
[17:20] <yuriy> it needs to include the text of the GPL as well then right?
[17:21] <yuriy> i haven't done any packaging, but i'll rtfm and send a patch, hopefully today
[17:21] <mornfall> yuriy: Only a reference to it in common-licences.
[17:21] <mornfall> licenses, whatever
[17:21] <Riddell> mornfall: searching with xapian is super fast
[17:22] <mornfall> Riddell: Well, it's mostly super-fast because old adept is super-slow.
[17:22] <mornfall> I suppose if I implemented a simple matcher, it would be as fast as xapian.
[17:22] <mornfall> But xapian's strength is in that the results are much better.
[17:22] <Riddell> mornfall: have you seen software-properties by the way?  it's what we use now to set up the sources.list
[17:23] <Riddell> but I don't think it'll work on debian
[17:23] <Riddell> s/set up/edit/
[17:23] <yuriy> oh yeah about that, would it be possible to integrate that as a widget in adept?
[17:23] <Riddell> yuriy: not easily, it's python
[17:24] <mornfall> Then, no.
[17:24] <nareshov> sotware-properties is still alpha code? :D
[17:24] <yuriy> Riddell: so there is no way to write custom widgets in python and use them in c++?
[17:24] <nareshov> I got a QMutex::lock: Deadlock detected
[17:24] <mornfall> Riddell: There's a package in debian. Let's try...
[17:24] <mornfall> yuriy: Basically, no.
[17:25] <mornfall> Any inter-language binding is a problem.
[17:25] <mornfall> You can see how much effort it is to have C++ -> scripting language bindings. Other way around is even worse.
[17:25] <Riddell> yuriy: maybe at a push with libpythonize or the like ( Sime would know), but it's never easy
[17:26] <Riddell> nareshov: got dbus-x11 installed?
[17:26]  * nareshov checks
[17:26] <yuriy> ah right, cause system settings is c++ and works with guidance.. there is some sort of cpp wrapper that uses libpythonize
[17:26] <nareshov> Riddell: yup
[17:36] <mornfall> Riddell: Hm, I can parse the info files myself and produce a sources.list editor similar to software-properties, I guess.
[17:36] <mornfall> Hm. Clicking "Find best server" crashes the thing.
[17:39] <mornfall> No matter.
[17:39] <mornfall> We'll see what happens.
[17:41] <mornfall> Btw, the -kde means -qt here? Since it doesn't seem to quite follow KDE settings...
[17:43] <jpatrick> Riddell: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/patches/kubuntu-www-1.diff
[17:48] <mornfall> Dear folks, the Adept builds finally passed, get the crispy packages at https://launchpad.net/~me-mornfall/+archive (when they arrive from the buildroots, anyway).
[17:48] <mornfall> I am off to a pub, see you later.
[18:34] <sebastian^> good morning folks
[19:17] <mhb> \sh: I'm learning math and believe me, we don't use the rule of three much in the classes :o)
[19:17] <\sh> mhb, hehe
[19:17] <mhb> I don't think I've used it since elementary school
[19:18] <yuriy> Riddell: now that i think about it, shouldn't software properties be a kcm?
[19:18] <mhb> Riddell: ^^ we could do a wrapper that launches s-p-kde in a new windows from within systemsettings
[19:19] <mhb> Riddell: and we might do the same for new restricted-manager -> it could be qt4 only then
[19:20] <mhb> I don't think users would mind that much - it'll be easier for them to find, and we can integrate it the right way with KDE4
[19:21] <mhb> yuriy: what do you think?
[19:21] <yuriy> mhb: oh, you mean for kde3?
[19:21] <mhb> yes, that's the reason software properties aren't in systemsettings yet
[19:22] <mhb> of course, we could integrate them into KDE4 once libpythonize is ready
[19:22] <DasKreech> Hey Riddell
[19:22] <DasKreech> got what you lost?
[19:22] <yuriy> mhb: oh, it's not ready? :-\
[19:22] <mhb> yuriy: last I heard, I was offline for some days though
[19:23] <yuriy> Sime works on it?
[19:23]  * mhb shrugs
[19:27] <nixternal> mhb: we used to have the install on demand for flash I thought a few releases back
[19:32] <mhb> nixternal: would be awesome to have it for x86_64 too :o)
[19:32] <mhb> since it's relatively easy to install.
[19:32] <nixternal> it would be awesome if konqi worked with flash right now too :p
[19:32] <mhb> yeah...
[19:32] <mhb> that sucks.
[19:32] <nixternal> I am sick of having firefox on my machine already
[19:33] <DasKreech> SVN?
[19:33] <nixternal> actually, there are some flash applets on websites that actually work with Konqi-kde4
[19:33] <nixternal> YouTube and such doesn't work
[19:33] <mhb> well konq3 is not much better now
[19:33] <mhb> and we better geth both ready for april :o)
[19:34] <mhb> as much as I love letting closed soure down...
[19:34] <nixternal> I think flash is working with Konqi in trunk, so that should be fixed for us in the next couple of weeks
[19:34] <mhb> 3/4?
[19:34] <mhb> or both?
[19:34] <nixternal> 4
[19:34] <mhb> hrm, we need 3 too :o)
[19:34] <nixternal> dunno about 3...I thought it was fixed upstream and that is what we were using
[19:35] <nixternal> I remember Riddell sending an email asking people to test it
[19:35] <mhb> konqueror-kde4 is behaving quite bad on some sites, especially with forms
[19:35] <nixternal> I have noticed that
[19:35] <nixternal> Konqi-kde4 ran quite smooth for a bit and then went to hell fairly quick
[19:36] <nixternal> it will get better though once they have webkit included
[19:36] <mhb> I hope so
[19:36] <nixternal> the current webkit renders pages nicely, but it doesn't work with forms at all
[19:36] <mhb> and 4.1 will fix all KDE4 bugs, I know :o)
[19:36] <nixternal> I was unable to type in forms
[19:36] <nixternal> hehe
[19:36] <nixternal> 4.1 isn't to far off either
[19:36] <mhb> a lot of people believe that
[19:36] <mornfall> Okey, once more, testers sought: https://launchpad.net/~me-mornfall/+archive
[19:36] <nixternal> I was impressed with their release schedule
[19:37] <mhb> mornfall: fajn, zkusím.
[19:37] <nixternal> mornfall: is this for kde3 or 4?
[19:38] <mornfall> mhb: Who are you, out of curiosity?
[19:38] <mornfall> nixternal: 4.
[19:38] <nixternal> groovy
[19:39] <mhb> mornfall: just a student doing some here-and-there Kubuntu hacking recreationally
[19:40] <mornfall> mhb: Hmmm, student. Where?
[19:40] <mhb> mornfall: MFF
[19:40] <mornfall> Ah.
[19:40] <mornfall> I only know a couple of people from MFF.
[19:41] <mhb> mornfall: me too, I just started uni :o)
[19:41] <mornfall> Ah.
[19:41] <nixternal> rebuilding xapian now
[19:41] <nixternal> index that is
[19:42] <mornfall> Smart boy. : - ).
[19:42] <yuriy> mornfall: I think the package will need to be adept-kde4 or something since all kde4 stuff is intended to be installed alongside kde3
[19:42] <nixternal> it puts a load on the system, that's for sure
[19:42] <mornfall> yuriy: Is that a problem to only provide kde4 adept?
[19:43] <mornfall> I am definitely scratching adept 2 from Debian ASAP.
[19:43] <yuriy> mornfall: hardy default (or one of them :O ) will be kde3 only
[19:43] <mornfall> So no libs? Hm.
[19:43] <nixternal> looks good mornfall, the fonts are a little ugly yet, but search works, and it works FAST
[19:43] <yuriy> though it would be nice to have kde4 libs : (
[19:43] <mornfall> nixternal: Fonts should be whatever you set up in kde.
[19:44] <mornfall> nixternal: Well, some of them are size-1.
[19:44] <yuriy> anyways, can't test the package cause i'm still on gutsy
[19:44] <mornfall> Although I could drop that, possibly.
[19:44] <nixternal> that could be it, because all the fonts render fine everywhere else
[19:44] <mhb> mornfall: are you still with red hat?
[19:44] <mornfall> mhb: Yes.
[19:44] <mhb> mornfall: good to hear :o)
[19:45] <nixternal> my god, as soon as I hit "enter", my search results are instant...that is nice
[19:46] <mornfall> I'm wondering whether to make that search-as-you-type.
[19:47] <yuriy> does the index need to be rebuilt on every apt[-get] update?
[19:47] <nixternal> worth giving it a shot, it seems everything else is going that route
[19:47] <mhb> mornfall: if not, please put a "search" button in there
[19:47] <mhb> mornfall: so people know they have to do something after typing the keyword
[19:47] <mornfall> The searchh interface is not definitive in any way.
[19:47] <mornfall> I will add status filters and a simple tag interface.
[19:48] <mornfall> (With probably just a list of tags and a couple of checkboxes or so.)
[19:48] <DasKreech> hi mornfall
[19:48] <mornfall> Evening DasKreech.
[19:48] <mhb> hmm, have you thought about making the selection one-click for the most common cases?
[19:49] <mhb> I mean so you don't have to expand each package just to select "install"
[19:49] <mhb> or remove when it's installed
[19:49] <DasKreech> can't you have also have a delay timer?
[19:49] <DasKreech> nothing has been typed for2.5 seconds start serach!
[19:49] <DasKreech> Search even
[19:49] <mornfall> DasKreech: 2.5 seconds is eternity.
[19:49] <nosrednaekim> mhb: hey, where is your repository for the desktop-effect-kde
[19:49] <mornfall> But that's how search-as-you-type works, yes.
[19:49] <DasKreech> That's kinda the point :)
[19:50] <mhb> I know you sometimes want to say remove the upgradable package, but still... doing the least amount of click would be lovely :o)
[19:50] <mhb> nosrednaekim: repository = branch?
[19:50] <DasKreech> mornfall: it's not search as you type it's search by default
[19:50] <nosrednaekim> mhb: I mean, where in launchpad is it? I couldn't find it
[19:50] <DasKreech> If you haven't pressed enter it will do so for you
[19:50] <mhb> nosrednaekim: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~martin.bohm is a good start :o)
[19:50] <mhb> nosrednaekim: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/guidance/desktop-effects-kde
[19:51] <DasKreech>  if you are trying to think what the name of the package/string is it automatically narrows it for you
[19:51] <nosrednaekim> thanks...
[19:51] <mhb> nosrednaekim: are you a member yet? /me cannot remember
[19:51] <nosrednaekim> mhb: no
[19:51] <mhb> nosrednaekim: okies
[19:52] <mornfall> mhb: Well, widgets are pretty expensive.
[19:52] <mornfall> mhb: Adding a widget to each list item may be a little too much.
[19:52] <nosrednaekim> mhb: why? do I need to be a member to branch it? I can apply tonight if so...
[19:52] <mhb> mornfall: hmm, by clicking on the status perhaps? :o)
[19:53] <mornfall> mhb: Counter-intuitive (IMHO).
[19:53] <mornfall> (Ie. it's quite un-obvious that clicking the icon would do anything. To me at least.)
[19:53] <mornfall> Although... Hm.
[19:53] <mhb> it's not intuitive, that is correct.
[19:53] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: don't need it to branch, but to upload yes
[19:53] <mhb> nosrednaekim: new url
[19:53] <mornfall> We are tracking the mouse already, so maybe highlighting the status  *text* when mouse-over could work.
[19:54] <mhb> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-users/guidance/desktop-effects-kde
[19:54] <mornfall> Then, clicking it could change it.
[19:54] <mornfall> Well, set it for installation or such.
[19:54] <mornfall> I will have to contemlpate that.
[19:54] <mhb> mornfall: thanks!
[19:55] <mhb> mornfall: by the way, it crashed when applying the changes.
[19:55] <mornfall> mhb: Yes, you have uncached packages marked for install/upgrade. Known to be broken.
[19:56] <mhb> okies.
[19:57] <mhb> nosrednaekim: you can push there
[19:57] <mhb> nosrednaekim: and please do push there... it'll be much easier for everyone to track it :o)
[19:58] <mhb> mornfall: also the "package details" button does not really do anything.
[19:58] <mornfall> mhb: True.
[19:58] <mhb> mornfall: the Details tab works.
[19:58] <mornfall> I know.
[19:58] <mornfall> Well, gotta go home. See you later : - ).
[19:59] <mhb> mornfall: see you, and tell me if you need something specific tested.
[19:59] <nosrednaekim> mhb: ok... hope I don't break anything, never done anything with bzr or such :)
[19:59] <mhb> nosrednaekim: bzr is the python of the vcs :o)
[19:59] <mhb> nosrednaekim: meaning it's easy and guides you
[20:00] <ScottK> That's not quite how I'd have put it.
[20:00]  * ScottK finds it much more confusing than svn.
[20:00] <mhb> do you?
[20:01] <mhb> well, we agree to disagree :o)
[20:01] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:01] <mhb> ScottK: what exactly?
[20:01] <ScottK> I can do bzr co and stuff that mirrors svn, but all the merge, branch, etc, is orthogonal to my VCS experience.
[20:02] <mhb> ScottK: hmm, probably you're used to the centralized approach then?
[20:02] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:03] <ScottK> And so far I run into bzr nowhere but Ubuntu.  I'm not up for learning a special vcs for Ubuntu.
[20:03] <nosrednaekim> mhb: ok, so I need to rebranch from that "repository" apply my changes and then push it? I previously branched from the kubuntu-members one
[20:03] <mhb> nosrednaekim: well
[20:03] <mhb> nosrednaekim: checkout that repo
[20:04] <mhb> nosrednaekim: run "bzr merge dir/where/your/branch/is"
[20:04] <mhb> nosrednaekim: and "bzr commit"
[20:04] <nosrednaekim> ok
[20:04]  * nosrednaekim does a backup of his work....
[20:04] <mhb> bzr co bzr+ssh://your.login@bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-users/guidance/desktop-effects-kde
[20:05] <mhb> so you can commit there directly.
[20:05] <mhb> and you shouldn't really touch your branch
[20:06] <mhb> (you run bzr merge dir/where/your/branch/is" in the desktop-effects-kde directory)
[20:06] <nosrednaekim> ok
[20:09] <mhb> nosrednaekim: just ask if something goes wrong
[20:10] <nosrednaekim> thanks :)
[20:16] <nosrednaekim> mhb: do I run the merge command from within the newly checkout dir pointing to the one where I have all of my changes?
[20:16] <mhb> yes
[20:16] <nosrednaekim> ok
[20:18] <nosrednaekim> mhb: erm... it says there is nothing to do.
[20:19] <mhb> are you sure you commited your changes in your branch?
[20:20] <nosrednaekim> oh, no I didn't. that doesn't try to upload them?
[20:20] <nosrednaekim> ah.. no that "push"
[20:20] <nosrednaekim> ok
[20:20] <mhb> nosrednaekim: let me explain
[20:21] <mhb> nosrednaekim: if you do a "checkout", your branch is still "tied" to the original one, and when you try to commit, it tries to connect to it
[20:21] <nosrednaekim> ok.
[20:21] <mhb> nosrednaekim: on the other hand, when you do a "branch", you effectively create a new branch and your branch is the "main" one.
[20:22] <mhb> nosrednaekim: if you do a "checkout" and want to unbind your branch ( change it from a checkout into a full branch), you run "bzr unbind"
[20:22] <nosrednaekim> ah ok.... it was so long ago, I forgot whether I branched or checked out...
[20:22] <mhb> do an unbind, then commit
[20:23] <nosrednaekim> ok
[20:25] <nosrednaekim> ok,it was a local. so I did "commit,"however, I made 3 new files and its not commiting them, is there a certain command for that? (and yes, I am going to go out an read the bzr tutorial right after this)
[20:26] <mhb> bzr add
[20:26] <mhb> (you have to commit afterwards)
[20:28] <nosrednaekim> right....
[20:29] <mornfall> Re.
[20:32] <mhb> nosrednaekim: all going well?
[20:32] <nosrednaekim> ok, so I ran bzr commit and I think it uploaded the stuff...
[20:34] <nosrednaekim> but its not showing on the launchpad page... does it take a little while?
[20:34] <mhb> it is
[20:34] <mhb> yes, usually it takes a couple of minutes, but it's there now
[20:35] <nosrednaekim> ah there we go!  thanks alot!
[20:36] <mhb> nosrednaekim: change your /home/martin/.bazaar/bazaar.conf
[20:36] <nosrednaekim> mhb: does a guidance module need to be written?
[20:38] <mhb> nosrednaekim: what do you mean?
[20:39] <mhb> nosrednaekim: hmm, I guess if we should concentrate on the qt4 port
[20:40] <nosrednaekim> yeah, I didn't even try testing the kde3 one...I was only working on the qt4 one.
[20:40] <mhb> nosrednaekim: if we made it pure qt4 we could include it in Hardy, too
[20:40] <mhb> nosrednaekim: splendid
[20:41] <nosrednaekim> ok, one other thing... it depends on a file in /etc/Xsession.d, how should I go about commiting that so that it knows where to go?
[20:42] <mhb> nosrednaekim: please tell me more, I'm not sure I get it
[20:45] <nosrednaekim> mhb: X runs scripts on its start, and they have to be in the /etc/X11/Xsession.d. the program a script  in there to determine if a certain  file exists in the user's homeDIR and set $KDEWM accordingly
[20:46] <mhb> so you made a script for that /etc/X11/Xsession.d ?
[20:47] <mhb> and you need to get it installed?
[20:47] <mhb> or not?
[20:47] <nosrednaekim> yeah
[20:47] <mhb> hmm, you should do that within setup.py
[20:47] <mhb> I guess.
[20:48] <mhb> or not
[20:51] <nosrednaekim> well, in any event, I'll go commit that file too.
[20:53] <mhb> definitely.
[20:54] <mhb> nosrednaekim: so it's working now?
[20:54] <nosrednaekim> yeah... it works(on my machine at least)
[20:55] <mhb> nosrednaekim: even choosing the effect level? that's impressive.
[20:55] <nosrednaekim> yep.
[20:56] <nosrednaekim> and you can do custon effects which allows you to use another manager. then if you want to go back to one of the presets,it will back up your custom config file to be restored next time you go back to custom
[20:57] <mhb> nosrednaekim: I need the xsession.d script for the system to be able to determine if I got compiz installed?
[20:58] <mhb> nosrednaekim: because d-e-kde4 doesn't seem to find my compiz
[20:58] <nosrednaekim> mhb: no, for it to determine if you want compiz to be autostarted as the deafult WM.
[20:59] <mhb> hmm, does d-e-kde4 recheck once I install compiz with the button?
[20:59] <nosrednaekim> I didn't touch the package management stuff (and it detects mine) do you have compiz-kde installed?
[20:59] <mhb> I do.
[20:59] <ryanakca> aaah, all the fonts in kde4 are now microscopic!
[21:00] <nosrednaekim> mhb: what does it do if you tell it to install compiz?
[21:00] <mhb> nosrednaekim: well now it does find it
[21:01] <mhb> but I guess it should re-check after I install it
[21:01] <nosrednaekim> mmhm, that might be a good idea... just another run of check(), right?
[21:01] <mhb> I guess so.
[21:03] <mhb> nosrednaekim: what happens when you run kwin, does compiz replace it?
[21:04] <mhb> nosrednaekim: I'm running oroborus right now and it can't replace this one.
[21:04] <nosrednaekim> run kwin after compiz has been set as the default?
[21:05] <mhb> nosrednaekim: what I mean is: I click "standard effects", so I guess it should replace my current WM with compiz, right?
[21:05] <mhb> without me rebooting or such
[21:05] <nosrednaekim> mhb: yes, it does
[21:05] <nosrednaekim> or should
[21:05] <mhb> hmm, not my current one.
[21:06] <mhb> I'll start kwin.
[21:09] <iRon> ryanakca: check DPI settings in fonts section
[21:11] <mhb> nosrednaekim: hmm, kwin crashes here
[21:11] <mhb> kwin: xcb_xlib.c:73: xcb_xlib_lock: Assertion `!c->xlib.lock' failed.
[21:11] <mhb> any guesses? Outdated system?
[21:12] <nosrednaekim> woah.... what does just running compiz --replace do? same thing?
[21:14] <mhb> man, this is so broken
[21:14] <mhb> kwin --replace is broken
[21:14] <mhb> compiz --replace is broken
[21:14] <mhb> /usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Fatal: No GLXFBConfig for default depth, this isn't going to work.
[21:14] <mhb> it worked fine before.
[21:15] <nosrednaekim> yeah... well, I don't think thats a problem with desktop-effects-kde ;)
[21:16] <mhb> no, it's laurel & hardy
[21:16] <nosrednaekim> hehe
[21:16] <mhb> I should have stuck with buster.
[21:19] <iRon> mhb: i know this problem with xcb.. one sec. there is a workaround for it..
[21:20] <nosrednaekim> thanks for your help mhb, i'll be back for the meeting
[21:21] <iRon> mhb: export LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK=1
[21:21] <iRon> mhb: this will ignore xlib lock error
[21:23] <mhb> iRon: thanks!
[21:23] <iRon> mhb: yw
[21:23] <iRon> mhb: does it helped?
[21:24] <mhb> so xcb is enabled in Kubuntu?
[21:24] <mhb> yes, it did
[21:24] <mhb> I so love the compiz effects :o)
[21:25] <mhb> Riddell: did you get my question about the systemsettings stubs?
[21:27] <ryanakca> iRon: will do :)
[21:28] <mhb> hmm, compiz rocks
[21:28] <mhb> I really love how fast it is
[21:28] <iRon> mhb: on kde3 ?
[21:28] <mhb> yeah
[21:29] <mhb> with compiz&kde3&urxvt, I am a happy man
[21:29] <iRon> :)
[21:29] <toma> urxvt?
[21:29] <mhb> I don't think I want kde4 anymore :o)
[21:30] <iRon> unicode rxvt
[21:31] <toma> rxvt?
[21:31] <mhb> toma: yes.
[21:32] <toma> k
[21:32] <mhb> I can't stand kopete's default font.
[21:32] <mhb> err
[21:32] <mhb> konsole
[21:33] <mhb> I've even done some measurements and you can fit a lot more readable text into the terminal with -fn fixed than with konsole, even if konsole's font is scaled down to be even a bit less readable than -fn fixed.
[21:34] <mhb> plus you don't really need a scroll bar and a tab bar and a menu bar for terminals.
[21:34] <mhb> plus urxvt in the daemon mode is superfast.
[21:35] <mhb> and it should save memory, too.
[21:35]  * mhb shuts up.
[21:38] <iRon> mhb: why not to use the same font in konsole which is in rxvt?
[21:38] <iRon> mhb: and turn off scrollbar and menu :-D
[21:39] <mhb> iRon: I've done that before (turning the menu and scrollbar off)
[21:39] <mhb> iRon: still, if I got the real fast deal (Porsche), why should I pimp my VW to look similarly?
[21:40] <iRon> right..
[21:40] <mhb> even if I manage to do it, it'll still be slower.
[21:40] <mhb> and eat more memory.
[21:40] <iRon> i was along time on xterm..
[21:41] <iRon> and wmii :)
[21:41] <mornfall> yuriy: I have pushed a fix for your crash...
[21:42] <mornfall> yuriy: (And also experimental search-as-you-type. The new refill code has problems with extenders, which I will fix in a while.)
[21:43] <mhb> iRon: and I'm not able to get the same font in konsole and in uxrvt
[21:43] <mhb> iRon: I tried "install bitmap fonts", but I still can't select them in the "choose font" menu
[21:45] <mhb> iRon: I'm getting too radical lately, I keep saying "offer the fastest/best tool for the job, even when it's not KDE"
[21:46] <mhb> iRon: the only good thing about konsole is that you can integrate it into konqueror, adept, gdebi-kde etc :o)
[21:47] <iRon> mhb: yep.. you need to enable bitmap fonts in fontconfig. dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config
[21:47] <mhb> I'm fine with urxvt. :o)
[21:47] <iRon> :)
[21:48] <mornfall> mhb: Right now, you can't quite integrate it into adept, though.
[21:50] <mhb> mornfall: the kpart does not work properly in KDE4? even not in c++?
[21:52] <mornfall> mhb: KPart sure, but it doesn't have the interface I would probably need to use it properly.
[21:52] <neversfelde> Where can I give feedback for this new "special" wallpaper? ;)
[21:53] <mhb> mornfall: ah.
[21:53] <mhb> neversfelde: here...
[21:53] <mhb> neversfelde: but the rationale behind it is "force the users to suggest a better one"
[21:55] <mhb> neversfelde: so go ahead and suggest .o)
[21:55] <neversfelde> I will ask the german community, maybe a good artist is around there
[21:57] <mhb> kwwii: hi, is the Ubuntu Hardy wallpaper decided yet?
[21:57] <neversfelde> I should not paint myself ;)
[22:05] <toma> 23h here
[22:06] <mhb> toma: one more to go
[22:06] <Riddell> mhb: I did not get your systemsettings stubs question
[22:07] <toma> mhb: ew. so we all gather around my birthday, neat
[22:07] <mhb> toma: yay, a party!
[22:08] <toma> CAKE
[22:08] <Riddell> yuriy, mhb: I don't see much of a reason to have software-properties in system settings, configuration is best attached to an app and we have package management apps
[22:09] <mhb> Riddell: what about desktop-effects-kde (which is now qt4-only) and the new restricted manager (which could be qt4 only, too)
[22:09] <mhb> could they get a stub kcontrol module for launching them?
[22:09] <mhb> so we don't have to write dead KDE3 frontends for those.
[22:10] <Riddell> mhb: desktop effects could, restricted manager should have its systray icon when it's needed
[22:10] <mhb> well I guess it should also have a stubby in the systemsettings
[22:10] <mhb> Riddell: don't forget that people can also remove the drivers if they wish
[22:11] <Riddell> it could yes
[22:11] <mhb> okay.
[22:18]  * cheguevara is thinking of going to the chip shop before the meeting
[22:18] <mhb> @now
[22:18] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: January 23 2008, 22:18:40 - Current meeting: Edubuntu meeting
[22:18] <cheguevara> still got 40 mins :P
[22:21] <mhb> hrm
[22:21] <apachelogger_> re
[22:22] <mhb> nobody solved the time conflict
[22:22] <nosrednaekim> so whats going to happen?
[22:22] <cheguevara> wb apachelogger_
[22:22] <mhb> @now
[22:22] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: January 23 2008, 22:22:32 - Current meeting: Edubuntu meeting
[22:22] <apachelogger_> thx cheguevara
[22:23] <mhb> I guess we have to postpone the meeting by 30 minutes
[22:23] <cheguevara> conflict with the forum council meeting?
[22:23] <mhb> yes
[22:23] <cheguevara> hmmm
[22:23] <mhb> they end at 23:30, we start at 23:00
[22:23] <Nightrose> wb apachelogger_ :)
[22:23] <Nightrose> why not just do it here?
[22:23] <cheguevara> does our meeting have to be in #ubuntu-meeting?
[22:23] <cheguevara> exactly
[22:24]  * apachelogger_ declares himself a fan of Nightrose and cheguevara
[22:24] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:24] <cheguevara> :)
[22:24] <mhb> I've got nothing against it, but ask the big fish
[22:24] <cheguevara> ping Riddell then :P
[22:25] <Riddell> hmm?
[22:25] <cheguevara> can we have the meeting in here Riddell
[22:25] <cheguevara> because it clashes with the forum council meeting
[22:26] <uga> guys, something changed in xorg utilities lately? right now my kde4 startup script began faling on xprop
[22:26] <uga> and I see the script remains the same as weeks ago
[22:27] <Riddell> cheguevara: we seem to have the slot according to fridge
[22:27] <uga> Riddell: startkde works for you? :/
[22:27] <apachelogger_> uga: not utilties I guess, but something....
[22:27] <uga> I saw something about the xorg core lib
[22:27] <cheguevara> Riddell, fridge also says the forum council meeting End: 2008-01-23 23:30
[22:28] <uga> but I cant' recall any other updaes
[22:28] <uga> updates
[22:28] <Riddell> hmm, right
[22:28] <cheguevara> unless they are gonna finish early
[22:28] <apachelogger_> uga: well, the issue seems to happen with any composite related action, so ultimately someone who knows anything about x is going to fix this ;-)
[22:28] <cheguevara> or we start later :P
[22:29] <cheguevara> but yeah food
[22:29] <cheguevara> bbl
[22:29] <apachelogger_> food
[22:29] <apachelogger_> omg
[22:29] <mhb> uga: xcb?
[22:29] <uga> apachelogger_: ah thanks, I thought it was limited to this utility, since other desktops started up just fine
[22:29]  * apachelogger_ gehts some food
[22:29] <mhb> I guess it may be xcb related.
[22:29] <cheguevara> apachelogger_, DCC me some :P
[22:29] <apachelogger_> uga: does compiz stuff start?
[22:29] <mhb> well my kwin crashed because of it.
[22:29] <apachelogger_> mhb: so it's xcb's fault?
[22:29] <mhb> export LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK=1
[22:29] <apachelogger_> cheguevara: no way
[22:29] <mhb> fixed it for me.
[22:29] <cheguevara> aww :P
[22:29] <uga> lets try it...
[22:30] <mhb> but it's not permanent I guess.
[22:30] <apachelogger_> right!
[22:30] <apachelogger_> that ain't no fix :P
[22:30] <apachelogger_> thats a worky :P
[22:30]  * apachelogger_ scuttles to the fridge
[22:30] <mhb> yes, just a workaround.
[22:30] <apachelogger_> ^ hehe
[22:30] <uga> apachelogger_: puff, I haven't used compiz stuff for ages
[22:30] <cheguevara> lucky you i have to get dressed and go to the shop lol
[22:30] <mhb> nosredna_ekim: by the way, after I fixed kwin and compiz, the configuration tool worked.
[22:30] <cheguevara> (i am not trying to say i am sitting naked)
[22:31] <uga> apachelogger_: no, compiz seems to fail, fun =)
[22:31] <mhb> nosredna_ekim: I'm running compiz on KDE3 now and I find it awesome :o)
[22:31] <mhb> thanks for that
[22:31] <nosredna_ekim> mhb: great...
[22:32] <uga> yes, compiz makes the desktop crash
[22:32] <uga> apachelogger_: it seems same effect I see during the startup, so possibly same thing
[22:32] <apachelogger_> well, that issue is just way too strange
[22:33] <apachelogger_> uga: you might get hold of someone who knows about x in #ubuntu-devel
[22:34] <apachelogger_> Nightrose: btw, I didn't smoke in 24h
[22:34] <apachelogger_> <-- totally cold turkey
[22:34] <Nightrose> wohoo
[22:34] <Nightrose> oO
[22:34] <Nightrose> not good
[22:34] <mhb> good boy apachelogger_
[22:35] <apachelogger_> well, no alcohol either
[22:35] <Nightrose> apachelogger_ btw: dunno if you read it but I want to do the artwork meeting on monday 16:00 UTC which seems to work for the others so far - is that ok for you?
[22:35]  * apachelogger_ can't focus today
[22:35] <mhb> apachelogger_: hmm, you'll get used to it :o)
[22:37] <mhb> so the forum guys started
[22:37] <apachelogger_> aren't there drugs for that? :P
[22:37] <apachelogger_> Nightrose: not perfect, but working for  me
[22:38] <Nightrose> apachelogger_: ok thx - will send the note out some time tomorrow then
[22:38] <Nightrose> after talking to pinheiro
[22:40] <apachelogger_> yay
[22:40] <apachelogger_> Nightrose: amarok-nightly-kdelibs is b0rked :>
[22:40] <Nightrose> meh
[22:40] <Nightrose> what went wrong?
[22:41] <apachelogger_>   amarok-nightly-kdelibs: Hängt ab: libgif4 (>= 4.1.4) soll aber nicht installiert werden
[22:41] <Nightrose> hmm
[22:41] <apachelogger_> aus unerfindlichen gründen hat das ding gegen libgif gebaut
[22:41] <apachelogger_> auf gutsy sollte es aber libungif sein
[22:41] <nosredna_ekim> there you go.. problem #1... the error message is garbled.
[22:41] <apachelogger_> lol
[22:42]  * apachelogger_ spricht hinter nosredna_ekim rücken mit Nightrose ;-)
[22:42] <Nightrose> *g*
[22:42] <Nightrose> *nuschel* *flüster*
[22:42] <apachelogger_> *kicher*
[22:42] <nosredna_ekim> ????
[22:43] <Nightrose> nosredna_ekim: ;-) just don´t pay attention to us - we are just being silly
[22:43] <Nightrose> as always
[22:43] <apachelogger_> nosredna_ekim: we were talking behind your back ... literally ;-)
[22:43] <mhb> wie immer.
[22:43] <mhb> using German here is much more dangerous than using say Czech.
[22:44] <nosredna_ekim> I know three german phrases: "Hiel Hitler", "nein" and "ya"
[22:44] <mhb> "heal hitler"? Now that's a dangerous thought.
[22:44] <uga> apachelogger_: mhb: fixed
[22:45] <apachelogger_> I luv fixes
[22:45] <apachelogger_> uga: what was the problem?
[22:45] <uga> I reinstalled the nvidia binary, and let it install all glx libs again
[22:45] <uga> during the install I saw one error... complaining libglx.so wasn't a symlink or so
[22:45] <uga> it was, after the install though
[22:45] <uga> just in case I removed the file, and reinstalled it
[22:45] <uga> it started up fine
[22:46] <apachelogger_> nice
[22:46] <apachelogger_> gotta restart my router
[22:46] <uga> what I don't know is what files were replaced or :/
[22:47] <apachelogger_> meh
[22:47] <apachelogger_> uga: have a look at launchpad
[22:47] <apachelogger_> a lotta people reported this only for kde4
[22:47] <apachelogger_> so there is probably a bug report, since compiz was also effected
[22:47] <uga> apachelogger_: possibly because they have compositing enabled
[22:48] <uga> on kwin/kde4
[22:48] <apachelogger_> actually
[22:48] <apachelogger_> no
[22:48] <apachelogger_> it doesn't
[22:48] <apachelogger_> but it queries for the capabilities
[22:48] <apachelogger_> and this is causing the actual x-crash
[22:48] <apachelogger_> anyway
[22:48] <uga> ah, that's why it runs xprop
[22:48] <apachelogger_> really have to restart my router :D
[22:48] <uga> have fun ;)
[22:50] <cheguevara> back
[22:51] <apachelogger> re
[22:51] <Nightrose> wb
[22:53] <toma> looks like they are finishing
[22:54] <cheguevara> yep
[22:56] <apachelogger> hm
[22:56] <apachelogger> omg
[22:56] <apachelogger> 1 hour until the motu council polls open
[22:58] <Riddell> ** Kubuntu meeting in a couple of minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
[22:58] <Riddell> apachelogger: any kubuntu types up for that?
[22:59] <apachelogger> Riddell: hobbsee, persia and nixternal
[22:59] <apachelogger> so 2 of 3 :D
[23:00] <Riddell> ooh, excellent
[23:00] <apachelogger> ain't that bad
[23:00] <nosredna_ekim> umm whats it take to become a member?
[23:02] <apachelogger> nosredna_ekim: ongoing contribution
[23:02] <nosredna_ekim> how long...
[23:02] <apachelogger> as for everything in ubuntu :D
[23:02] <apachelogger> nosredna_ekim: it's not so much the how long
[23:02] <apachelogger> it's the what
[23:02] <apachelogger> and when
[23:02] <apachelogger> and why
[23:03] <nosredna_ekim> ah.. ok
[23:03] <stdin> you must promise to worship konqui and end every sentence in a 'K' :)
[23:04] <cheguevara> lol
[23:31]  * mhb regrets that Tonio is not around
[23:54] <nixternal> remember to vote for Hobbsee and I for the MOTU Council -> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+polls <- opens in 5 minutes :)
[23:55] <mhb> OK.
[23:56] <mhb> nixternal: but you eat all council places :o)
[23:57] <nixternal> I just hope they taste good :)
[23:58] <cheguevara> lol
[23:58] <mhb> nixternal: it's like sitting on two thrones at the same time :o)
[23:59] <mhb> nixternal: nixternal the second, archduke of chicago