/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/01/23/#launchpad-meeting.txt

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=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
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* gmb dashes to get tea before the meeting.14:54
* statik does too14:54
* sinzui grabs a pot of coffee.14:55
* intellectronica just pops some amphetamines14:57
* sinzui hunts for some meth14:58
* danilos grabs a sandwich, a bottle of rakia, and asks the girl in the bar to give him a lap dance14:58
* barry goes to visit danilos14:59
intellectronicadanilos: rakia, is that like raki - the anise drink?15:00
barry#startmeeting15:00
MootBotMeeting started at 15:00. The chair is barry.15:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:00
barryhi everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewer meeting15:00
barrywho's here today?15:00
sinzuime15:00
gmbme15:00
danilosintellectronica: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakia ;)15:00
intellectronicame15:00
danilosme15:00
bacme15:00
statikme15:00
allenapme15:00
barrywelcome danilos and allenap!15:01
bacwelcome allenap!15:01
allenapcheers :)15:01
danilosthanks15:01
barry[TOPIC] agenda15:01
MootBotNew Topic:  agenda15:01
danilosallenap: are you a new recruit? :)15:01
barry* Roll call15:01
barry * Next meeting15:01
barry * Action items15:01
barry * Queue status15:01
barry * Mentoring update15:01
barry   * allenap mentored by bac15:01
barry   * bigjools mentored by barry15:01
* flacoste hi-5 allenap and danilos15:01
barry * Review process15:02
barry   * on-callers use PendingReviews?15:02
barry   * SteveA (or barry), use of properties instead of `__call__` in TALES15:02
allenapdanilos: Yep, you?15:02
barry   * SteveA (or barry), use of raw strings for regexps only15:02
barry   * Tool update15:02
barry * On-call reviews15:02
barry   * Keeping the time to around 8 hours15:02
barryit's a full one today, so let's jump right in!15:02
barry[TOPIC] next meeting15:02
MootBotNew Topic:  next meeting15:02
* bigjools is here15:02
barrybigjools: welcome!15:02
danilosallenap: yep15:02
bigjoolsthanks!15:02
danilosbigjools: hi, welcome as well :)15:02
bigjoolsbackatcha danilos15:02
* flacoste cheers bigjools15:02
barrya bunch of us are going to be in florida sprinting next week. should we still have the meeting or skip it?15:02
* bigjools high fives flacoste15:03
statiki'd like to skip it15:03
flacoste+015:03
barrystatik: me too15:03
bac+1 on skipping15:03
sinzui-115:03
barry[VOTE] skip the meeting next week?15:03
MootBotPlease vote on:  skip the meeting next week?.15:03
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot15:03
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting15:03
MootBot-1 received from sinzui. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -115:03
danilos-1 (I'll be here, not that I don't want you to skip it :)15:03
MootBot-1 received from danilos. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -215:03
statik+115:03
flacoste+015:03
MootBot+1 received from statik. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -115:03
MootBotAbstention received from flacoste. 1 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -115:03
barry+115:03
MootBot+1 received from barry. 2 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 015:03
bac+115:03
MootBot+1 received from bac. 3 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 115:03
statik+115:04
baccheater15:04
* statik couldn't resist trying to cheat15:04
barry/msg mootbot stop cheaters!15:04
flacostestatik: i think i have a game for you...15:04
barryany other votes?15:04
barry515:04
barry415:04
barry315:04
bigjools+015:05
MootBotAbstention received from bigjools. 3 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 115:05
barry215:05
barry115:05
barry#endvote15:05
flacoste[ENDVOTE]15:05
danilosdoes that still not work?15:05
barry/msg mootbot fix yourself already!15:05
bacchanging topic should end it, too15:05
danilos(it ends when the meeting is done, that happened last time)15:05
barryokay, we're split, so i rule :)15:05
barry[AGREED] skip the meeting next week15:06
MootBotAGREED received:  skip the meeting next week15:06
barry[TOPIC] action items15:06
MootBotVote is in progress. Finishing now.15:06
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 2 against. 2 abstained. Total: 115:06
MootBotNew Topic:  action items15:06
intellectronicabarry: all of us, or only the florida sprint participants?15:06
flacostebarry: we're not splitted, 3 for, 2 against, 2 abstentions15:06
barryflacoste: statik cheated15:06
barryintellectronica: everyone, but i won't stop you from meeting if you want :)15:06
flacostebarry: but his cheat didn't work15:06
* barry shamefully unwields his power15:07
barryflacoste: great! then motion carried15:07
barry[TOPIC] action items15:07
MootBotNew Topic:  action items15:07
bigjoolsmeta argument alert :)15:07
barrybigjools: do you want the floor?15:08
* bigjools humbly disappears15:08
intellectronicai promised to create a cover letter and integrate it with the submission plugin. i have created a cover letter and am hacking on using it interactively from the plugin today15:08
barry * intellectronica to work on a cover letter template (wait for mwh)15:08
barryintellectronica: awesome!15:08
intellectronicashould be ready for when mwh is back in business15:08
flacosteintellectronica: you could put it out on the wiki15:09
flacostethat way we could edit/improve it15:09
flacosteand use it by pasting it in our editor15:09
barryflacoste: +115:09
danilosI was personally having problems using lpreview plug in with my set-up (which pre-dates all the rocketfuel-get scripts and similar)15:09
* flacoste used the plugin for the first time yesterday15:09
flacostedidn't work too great :/15:09
danilosflacoste: I've had the same experience15:09
flacostei reported my feedback to the list15:10
flacostedanilos: did you?15:10
barrydanilos: my setup predates th rf-get scripts and i've had fairly good luck with the script15:10
bigjoolsit should be registered in LP so we can track bugs15:10
danilosflacoste: no, I'll certainly do that15:10
barrybigjools: +115:10
allenapdanilos: Same for me as for barry, except that it tries to find the paste script in the wrong place.15:10
danilos+1 from me as well15:10
sinzuiI always write my cover letter and make my diff separate from the plugin--I think it is faster, and safer.15:10
barryutilities/paste doesn't work for me though15:10
flacostesinzui: i'll take your advice!15:11
flacostei did for the diff, but not the cover letter15:11
bigjoolsbarry: why not?15:11
flacostebut losing it twice, is kind of sucky15:11
barrysinzui: i usually write my cover separately but let the plugin do the diff15:11
flacostebarry: that's because your missing the magic password file15:11
bacflacoste: did you check to see if "cover.txt" actually exists?15:11
barrybigjools: i get some error output and no paste15:11
barryflacoste: no, i have that!15:11
danilosI had to do both manually15:11
flacostebac: oops, right, it does!15:11
barrybut maybe we can debug that off-line (it's low priority for me)15:11
bigjoolsok15:12
bacflacoste: i've documented that on the wiki15:12
flacosteyeah, i lured us off-topic, sorry15:12
allenapbac: Do you have a link for that?15:12
barrymwh is off-line.  gmb, in the meantime would you register the plugin on LP?15:12
bachttps://launchpad.canonical.com/LPReviewPluginDocs15:12
gmbbarry: Sure. Should I register two separate products, one for the webapp, too, or do you think that can wait?15:12
allenapbac: Thanks.15:13
barrygmb: i think that can wait (and should be separate when it's time)15:13
gmbOkay. Will do.15:13
barry[ACTION] gmb to register lpreview plugin on lp so we can track bugs15:13
MootBotACTION received:  gmb to register lpreview plugin on lp so we can track bugs15:13
barrymoving on... :)15:13
barry * barry will communicate the on-call process to launchpad developers15:13
barrydone, though there is discussion about some details (which we'll get to later)15:14
barry * barry will contact devs who have previously expressed an interest in revieweing15:14
danilosobviously done, hi bigjools, allenap :)15:14
barrydone, and welcome new recruits! :)15:14
* bigjools waves15:14
barry * gmb to work on the review web site next week (hopefully)15:14
bigjoolsschwuk wanted to start too, what happened to him?15:14
barrybigjools: i think he's looking for a mentor15:14
bigjoolsok15:15
* allenap drowns, no, waves15:15
gmbbarry: No work done yet. I'm hoping to get some time tomorrow and Friday.15:15
gmbToo many other things are taking priority at this point.15:15
barrygmb: understood! np, thanks for the update.15:15
barry * sinzui to look into running `make lint` and output PR stanza by default in `review-submit`15:15
sinzuiI did not act on that one.15:16
* sinzui looks at his shoes15:16
bigjoolsPR begone15:16
barrysinzui: np, should we just carry that over?15:16
sinzuiI considered updating the plugin to generate the PendingReview fragment, Since I do no know the URL of the cover letter before it is archived, I don't see much point in the effort.15:16
flacostesinzui: there is --pr option to generate the fragment already15:17
intellectronicaflacoste: is that not for creating a paste with the diff, actually?15:17
flacosteintellectronica: no, it outpus something you can paste in PR15:17
flacosteoutputs even15:17
flacosteeven though PR stuff could be linked to pus15:17
sinzuiflacoste: It doesn't have the cover letter link15:17
=== salgado is now known as salgado-lunch
barry:-D15:17
flacostesinzui: hmm, i thought that was simply because the paste fails15:18
flacostebecause of path problems15:18
barrywell, gmb is gonna kill of PR soon enough anyway <wink> so maybe that's not the biggest bang for the buck15:18
flacostebut that may be a wrong assumptions15:18
sinzuiI will look into this in more detail15:18
barrysinzui: i think 'make lint' could be pretty useful tho15:18
sinzuiFaster gmb, kill, kill!15:18
bigjoolsgmb will be my new best friend when he kills PR15:19
sinzuibarry: I will work on lint first.15:19
* gmb needs little encouragement15:19
intellectronicagmb: now if that's not an incentive i don't know what is15:19
barrysinzui: excellent, thanks15:19
bigjoolsyes, please lint it as part of review-submit15:19
gmb:)15:19
barry * barry will require `bzr review-submit` with exceptions.15:19
barrydone15:19
barry(in the sense that i emailed that policy)15:20
barry[TOPIC] queue status15:20
MootBotNew Topic:  queue status15:20
barrythere are still a few long standing items in the queue over the sla15:20
barryi know stub's branch that jtv is reviewing will just take a while15:21
barryi'm not sure what the status is of adeuring's branch w/ jamesh15:21
barrygmb, salgado, BjornT what are the statuses of your older branches?15:21
jtvbarry: stub's branch is also not completely finished yet.15:21
intellectronicabarry: there's another branch of stub which danilo and i decided not to touch for now, since it a zope branch. i think stub should make arrangements for someone to review it15:22
barryjtv: should it be moved to work-in-progress then?15:22
barryintellectronica: is that stub/zope/devel?15:22
jtvbarry: I'm not sure it matters much at this stage, it's an "interactive" review.15:22
intellectronicabarry: BjornT is absent today, he's in meetings15:22
gmbbarry: The needs-review* one is actually now a wip, I think, due to a discussion with mpt. I'll talk to abently about it later today.15:22
intellectronicabarry: yes, that's the one15:22
barryjtv: okay, cool15:23
flacosteintellectronica: there is nothing in it!15:23
intellectronicaflacoste: in that case, i don't mind reviewing it15:23
barryintellectronica: rs'ing it even :)15:23
barrygmb: thanks15:24
barrygmb: feel free to move it to wip if that's what it is15:24
gmbSure.15:24
barryany other comments about the current queue?15:24
sinzuiI think should remind developers to clear their merged branches  from PendingReviews.15:24
barrysinzui: good point15:24
gmbsinzui: +115:25
barry[ACTION] barry will remind developers to clear merged branches from PR15:25
MootBotACTION received:  barry will remind developers to clear merged branches from PR15:25
barry515:25
barry415:25
barry315:25
barry215:25
barry115:25
barry[TOPIC] mentoring update15:25
MootBotNew Topic:  mentoring update15:25
barry   * allenap mentored by bac15:25
barry   * bigjools mentored by barry15:25
barrywe have new victim^H^H^H^H^H^Hrecruits... yay!15:26
barryand hopefully one more for next cycle15:26
gmbCool. Even more on-call coverage.15:26
bigjoolsI am not starting until Feb 4 though15:26
baci would like to talk to someone off-line about how mentoring and on-call work.15:26
barryif anybody feels like they could mentor someone, let me know15:26
barrybac: maybe we can chat about that next week f2f?15:27
barrybigjools: yep15:27
bacbarry: good idea15:27
barryalso, any mentors who feel their recruits are ready to graduate, please let me know15:27
bigjoolsand I am on leave the following week :)15:27
barrybigjools: cool.  just means more piling up for you when you get back :)15:28
bigjoolsbarry: in more ways than you can imagine15:28
barrymoving on because we only have 15 minutes and lots more to cover :/15:28
barry[TOPIC] review process15:28
MootBotNew Topic:  review process15:28
barryi'll do the quick ones first (hopefully)15:29
barry   * SteveA (or barry), use of properties instead of `__call__` in TALES15:29
barry   * SteveA (or barry), use of raw strings for regexps only15:29
barrysteve asked me to communicate two coding policies, if we all agree15:29
barryi'll bring these up on the m.l. but briefly...15:29
barrywe want to discourage __call__ in TALES in favor of properties15:30
barryand we want to discourage the use of raw strings for anything except regexp patterns15:30
barrydoes anybody not know what those mean?15:30
allenapbarry: Can you explain the reasons?15:30
barryallenap: i think it's a consistency thing and easy of reading for #115:31
barryfor #2, steve observed cargo culting of raw strings in places where they weren't needed15:31
flacostei'm all for #215:31
intellectronicabarry: actually, there's a more important reason for #115:31
barryso suggested that devs may not understand what raw strings are for15:31
danilosif we're ever to go into localising launchpad, we'll have to get more raw strings in views (as compared to page templates)15:32
barryand suggested that a good rule of thumb is to always use them for regexps and never for anything else15:32
flacosteand i usually don't mind #115:32
intellectronicabecause of the way zope traverses in expressions15:32
sinzuibarry: +115:32
barry(although it would be good to explain why raw strings are in python of course)15:32
barryintellectronica: go ahead...15:32
intellectronicazope traverses properties, but stops at the result of a method call15:32
barrydanilos: we can cross that bridge when we get there :)15:32
flacosteactually15:32
intellectronicaso my_object/my_property/an_attribute is fine15:33
danilosother than that, parsing specially formatted textual files like PO files requires a lot of hard-coded strings as well15:33
intellectronicabut my_object/result_of_method_call/an_attribute doesn't work15:33
flacostei think what #1 is about is not to use method call in TALES15:33
danilosflacoste: that's how I read it as well15:33
intellectronicaoh, in that case i don't understand15:33
barrydanilos: exceptions are okay, if you really need them, but reviewers should scrutinize raw string usage carefully15:34
flacostebecause TALES will always implicitely call the end result15:34
flacostethat's why there is no nocall: expression15:34
danilosbarry: ok, point taken, we should probably take the discussion on-list15:34
barrydanilos: +115:34
bacbarry: are you proposing raw strings used nowhere but regex AND regex must use raw strings?  or just the former?15:34
barry[ACTION] barry to take raw string coding standard to the ml15:35
MootBotACTION received:  barry to take raw string coding standard to the ml15:35
barrybac: both15:35
barryintellectronica: would you like to bring up the __call__ thing on the ml?15:36
intellectronicabarry: if flacoste is right then i have no idea what it's about - i rather have someone else clarify first15:36
danilosbtw, does the no string rule include docstrings? ;)15:36
* danilos runs away...15:37
barryintellectronica: okay.  i'll ask SteveA to do it since he brought it up :)15:37
barrydanilos: we'll take that to the ml15:37
barrymoving on since i really want to get to sinzui's item15:37
barry   * on-callers use PendingReviews?15:37
sinzui\o/15:37
barryi just want to take a quick vote and we can discuss more on the ml15:38
barry[VOTE] do you as an on-caller want to use PR +1 or not -1?15:38
MootBotPlease vote on:  do you as an on-caller want to use PR +1 or not -1?.15:38
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot15:38
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting15:38
flacoste+015:38
MootBotAbstention received from flacoste. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 015:38
barry+115:38
MootBot+1 received from barry. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 115:38
bac-015:38
bigjools-115:38
gmb-115:38
MootBot-1 received from bigjools. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 015:38
MootBot-1 received from gmb. 1 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -115:38
bac+015:38
MootBotAbstention received from bac. 1 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -115:38
intellectronica+115:38
MootBot+1 received from intellectronica. 2 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 015:38
danilos-1 (when I'm provided with enough of the relevant information)15:38
MootBot-1 received from danilos. 2 for, 3 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -115:39
sinzui+015:39
MootBotAbstention received from sinzui. 2 for, 3 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -115:39
statik+015:39
MootBotAbstention received from statik. 2 for, 3 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -115:39
barrycool, thanks for the feedback15:39
intellectronicai think that while PR sucks, the solution is to replace it with something better, not to give up on tracking reviews15:39
bigjoolsI would like to point out that the whole point of on-call is to speed up reviews after the Lean training suggested we do 1-day branches.  If PR is needed for tracking, the branch is too big to do an on-call.15:39
gmbbigjools: Agreed.15:40
intellectronicabigjools: not so. unless there's exceptional load, almost everything can be done on call15:40
bigjoolsalso true - so anything requiring PR is too big...15:40
bacyes, if a branch is handled during the on-call day, then no need for PR.  throw it in PR if size of the branch or problems lead to it not being completed during the cycle.15:40
barrybtw, i like it mostly for the pending-reviews page15:40
barryokay, sorry to cut this short.  we'll continue discussion on the ml.15:41
barry[TOPIC]  * On-call reviews15:41
MootBotVote is in progress. Finishing now.15:41
MootBotFinal result is 2 for, 3 against. 4 abstained. Total: -115:41
MootBotNew Topic:   * On-call reviews15:41
barry   * Keeping the time to around 8 hours15:41
barrysinzui: you have the floor, 3 minutes :)15:41
sinzuibigjools: Not necessarily. I am a slow reviewer. 600 lines is 3h for me. If you want something reviewed near the end of my day, I may need to take that branch up another day.15:42
bigjoolssinzui: if it's near the end of the day, I don't submit for review15:42
barrysinzui: don't accept big branches near the end of your day15:43
sinzuiWithout PendingReviews, YOU would have to sit on your branch until another on-call reviewer is available. We also have a practice of reassigning branches at the end of the day.15:43
danilossinzui: wasn't this about on-call reviews and not about non-on-call reviews? i.e. if you are not using on-call, you just put it onto PendingReviews15:44
barrysinzui: i thought you were going to mention that you spend 20 hours doing reviews last week15:44
sinzuibarry: It's not that simple, Some branches arrive, and run out to be needs-reply, and a conversation in IRC is not going to fix that15:44
barrysinzui: true15:45
* sinzui appologises for the confusion, I was actually responding to a remark on IRC /before/ I was given the floor.15:45
barrywell, we've run out of time.  sinzui can we take this to the ml?15:46
barrysorry about that :(15:46
sinzuiI will15:46
barrysinzui: thanks!15:46
barry#endmeeting15:46
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:46.15:46
barrythanks everyone15:46
bigjoolsthanks barry15:46
intellectronicathanks barry15:46
=== salgado-lunch is now known as salgado
=== salgado is now known as salgado-brb
=== salgado-brb is now known as salgado

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