[14:54]  * gmb dashes to get tea before the meeting.
[14:54]  * statik does too
[14:55]  * sinzui grabs a pot of coffee.
[14:57]  * intellectronica just pops some amphetamines
[14:58]  * sinzui hunts for some meth
[14:58]  * danilos grabs a sandwich, a bottle of rakia, and asks the girl in the bar to give him a lap dance
[14:59]  * barry goes to visit danilos
[15:00] <intellectronica> danilos: rakia, is that like raki - the anise drink?
[15:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is barry.
[15:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:00] <barry> hi everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewer meeting
[15:00] <barry> who's here today?
[15:00] <sinzui> me
[15:00] <gmb> me
[15:00] <danilos> intellectronica: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakia ;)
[15:00] <intellectronica> me
[15:00] <danilos> me
[15:00] <bac> me
[15:00] <statik> me
[15:00] <allenap> me
[15:01] <barry> welcome danilos and allenap!
[15:01] <bac> welcome allenap!
[15:01] <allenap> cheers :)
[15:01] <danilos> thanks
[15:01] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[15:01] <danilos> allenap: are you a new recruit? :)
[15:01] <barry> * Roll call
[15:01] <barry>  * Next meeting
[15:01] <barry>  * Action items
[15:01] <barry>  * Queue status
[15:01] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:01] <barry>    * allenap mentored by bac
[15:01] <barry>    * bigjools mentored by barry
[15:01]  * flacoste hi-5 allenap and danilos
[15:02] <barry>  * Review process
[15:02] <barry>    * on-callers use PendingReviews?
[15:02] <barry>    * SteveA (or barry), use of properties instead of `__call__` in TALES
[15:02] <allenap> danilos: Yep, you?
[15:02] <barry>    * SteveA (or barry), use of raw strings for regexps only
[15:02] <barry>    * Tool update
[15:02] <barry>  * On-call reviews
[15:02] <barry>    * Keeping the time to around 8 hours
[15:02] <barry> it's a full one today, so let's jump right in!
[15:02] <barry> [TOPIC] next meeting
[15:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
[15:02]  * bigjools is here
[15:02] <barry> bigjools: welcome!
[15:02] <danilos> allenap: yep
[15:02] <bigjools> thanks!
[15:02] <danilos> bigjools: hi, welcome as well :)
[15:02] <bigjools> backatcha danilos
[15:02]  * flacoste cheers bigjools
[15:02] <barry> a bunch of us are going to be in florida sprinting next week. should we still have the meeting or skip it?
[15:03]  * bigjools high fives flacoste
[15:03] <statik> i'd like to skip it
[15:03] <flacoste> +0
[15:03] <barry> statik: me too
[15:03] <bac> +1 on skipping
[15:03] <sinzui> -1
[15:03] <barry> [VOTE] skip the meeting next week?
[15:03] <MootBot> Please vote on:  skip the meeting next week?.
[15:03] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[15:03] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting
[15:03] <MootBot> -1 received from sinzui. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[15:03] <danilos> -1 (I'll be here, not that I don't want you to skip it :)
[15:03] <MootBot> -1 received from danilos. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[15:03] <statik> +1
[15:03] <flacoste> +0
[15:03] <MootBot> +1 received from statik. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[15:03] <MootBot> Abstention received from flacoste. 1 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
[15:03] <barry> +1
[15:03] <MootBot> +1 received from barry. 2 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[15:03] <bac> +1
[15:03] <MootBot> +1 received from bac. 3 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:04] <statik> +1
[15:04] <bac> cheater
[15:04]  * statik couldn't resist trying to cheat
[15:04] <barry> /msg mootbot stop cheaters!
[15:04] <flacoste> statik: i think i have a game for you...
[15:04] <barry> any other votes?
[15:04] <barry> 5
[15:04] <barry> 4
[15:04] <barry> 3
[15:05] <bigjools> +0
[15:05] <MootBot> Abstention received from bigjools. 3 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:05] <barry> 2
[15:05] <barry> 1
[15:05] <barry> #endvote
[15:05] <flacoste> [ENDVOTE]
[15:05] <danilos> does that still not work?
[15:05] <barry> /msg mootbot fix yourself already!
[15:05] <bac> changing topic should end it, too
[15:05] <danilos> (it ends when the meeting is done, that happened last time)
[15:05] <barry> okay, we're split, so i rule :)
[15:06] <barry> [AGREED] skip the meeting next week
[15:06] <MootBot> AGREED received:  skip the meeting next week
[15:06] <barry> [TOPIC] action items
[15:06] <MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
[15:06] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 2 against. 2 abstained. Total: 1
[15:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  action items
[15:06] <intellectronica> barry: all of us, or only the florida sprint participants?
[15:06] <flacoste> barry: we're not splitted, 3 for, 2 against, 2 abstentions
[15:06] <barry> flacoste: statik cheated
[15:06] <barry> intellectronica: everyone, but i won't stop you from meeting if you want :)
[15:06] <flacoste> barry: but his cheat didn't work
[15:07]  * barry shamefully unwields his power
[15:07] <barry> flacoste: great! then motion carried
[15:07] <barry> [TOPIC] action items
[15:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  action items
[15:07] <bigjools> meta argument alert :)
[15:08] <barry> bigjools: do you want the floor?
[15:08]  * bigjools humbly disappears
[15:08] <intellectronica> i promised to create a cover letter and integrate it with the submission plugin. i have created a cover letter and am hacking on using it interactively from the plugin today
[15:08] <barry>  * intellectronica to work on a cover letter template (wait for mwh)
[15:08] <barry> intellectronica: awesome!
[15:08] <intellectronica> should be ready for when mwh is back in business
[15:09] <flacoste> intellectronica: you could put it out on the wiki
[15:09] <flacoste> that way we could edit/improve it
[15:09] <flacoste> and use it by pasting it in our editor
[15:09] <barry> flacoste: +1
[15:09] <danilos> I was personally having problems using lpreview plug in with my set-up (which pre-dates all the rocketfuel-get scripts and similar)
[15:09]  * flacoste used the plugin for the first time yesterday
[15:09] <flacoste> didn't work too great :/
[15:09] <danilos> flacoste: I've had the same experience
[15:10] <flacoste> i reported my feedback to the list
[15:10] <flacoste> danilos: did you?
[15:10] <barry> danilos: my setup predates th rf-get scripts and i've had fairly good luck with the script
[15:10] <bigjools> it should be registered in LP so we can track bugs
[15:10] <danilos> flacoste: no, I'll certainly do that
[15:10] <barry> bigjools: +1
[15:10] <allenap> danilos: Same for me as for barry, except that it tries to find the paste script in the wrong place.
[15:10] <danilos> +1 from me as well
[15:10] <sinzui> I always write my cover letter and make my diff separate from the plugin--I think it is faster, and safer.
[15:10] <barry> utilities/paste doesn't work for me though
[15:11] <flacoste> sinzui: i'll take your advice!
[15:11] <flacoste> i did for the diff, but not the cover letter
[15:11] <bigjools> barry: why not?
[15:11] <flacoste> but losing it twice, is kind of sucky
[15:11] <barry> sinzui: i usually write my cover separately but let the plugin do the diff
[15:11] <flacoste> barry: that's because your missing the magic password file
[15:11] <bac> flacoste: did you check to see if "cover.txt" actually exists?
[15:11] <barry> bigjools: i get some error output and no paste
[15:11] <barry> flacoste: no, i have that!
[15:11] <danilos> I had to do both manually
[15:11] <flacoste> bac: oops, right, it does!
[15:11] <barry> but maybe we can debug that off-line (it's low priority for me)
[15:12] <bigjools> ok
[15:12] <bac> flacoste: i've documented that on the wiki
[15:12] <flacoste> yeah, i lured us off-topic, sorry
[15:12] <allenap> bac: Do you have a link for that?
[15:12] <barry> mwh is off-line.  gmb, in the meantime would you register the plugin on LP?
[15:12] <bac> https://launchpad.canonical.com/LPReviewPluginDocs
[15:12] <gmb> barry: Sure. Should I register two separate products, one for the webapp, too, or do you think that can wait?
[15:13] <allenap> bac: Thanks.
[15:13] <barry> gmb: i think that can wait (and should be separate when it's time)
[15:13] <gmb> Okay. Will do.
[15:13] <barry> [ACTION] gmb to register lpreview plugin on lp so we can track bugs
[15:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  gmb to register lpreview plugin on lp so we can track bugs
[15:13] <barry> moving on... :)
[15:13] <barry>  * barry will communicate the on-call process to launchpad developers
[15:14] <barry> done, though there is discussion about some details (which we'll get to later)
[15:14] <barry>  * barry will contact devs who have previously expressed an interest in revieweing
[15:14] <danilos> obviously done, hi bigjools, allenap :)
[15:14] <barry> done, and welcome new recruits! :)
[15:14]  * bigjools waves
[15:14] <barry>  * gmb to work on the review web site next week (hopefully)
[15:14] <bigjools> schwuk wanted to start too, what happened to him?
[15:14] <barry> bigjools: i think he's looking for a mentor
[15:15] <bigjools> ok
[15:15]  * allenap drowns, no, waves
[15:15] <gmb> barry: No work done yet. I'm hoping to get some time tomorrow and Friday.
[15:15] <gmb> Too many other things are taking priority at this point.
[15:15] <barry> gmb: understood! np, thanks for the update.
[15:15] <barry>  * sinzui to look into running `make lint` and output PR stanza by default in `review-submit`
[15:16] <sinzui> I did not act on that one.
[15:16]  * sinzui looks at his shoes
[15:16] <bigjools> PR begone
[15:16] <barry> sinzui: np, should we just carry that over?
[15:16] <sinzui> I considered updating the plugin to generate the PendingReview fragment, Since I do no know the URL of the cover letter before it is archived, I don't see much point in the effort.
[15:17] <flacoste> sinzui: there is --pr option to generate the fragment already
[15:17] <intellectronica> flacoste: is that not for creating a paste with the diff, actually?
[15:17] <flacoste> intellectronica: no, it outpus something you can paste in PR
[15:17] <flacoste> outputs even
[15:17] <flacoste> even though PR stuff could be linked to pus
[15:17] <sinzui> flacoste: It doesn't have the cover letter link
[15:17] <barry> :-D
[15:18] <flacoste> sinzui: hmm, i thought that was simply because the paste fails
[15:18] <flacoste> because of path problems
[15:18] <barry> well, gmb is gonna kill of PR soon enough anyway <wink> so maybe that's not the biggest bang for the buck
[15:18] <flacoste> but that may be a wrong assumptions
[15:18] <sinzui> I will look into this in more detail
[15:18] <barry> sinzui: i think 'make lint' could be pretty useful tho
[15:18] <sinzui> Faster gmb, kill, kill!
[15:19] <bigjools> gmb will be my new best friend when he kills PR
[15:19] <sinzui> barry: I will work on lint first.
[15:19]  * gmb needs little encouragement
[15:19] <intellectronica> gmb: now if that's not an incentive i don't know what is
[15:19] <barry> sinzui: excellent, thanks
[15:19] <bigjools> yes, please lint it as part of review-submit
[15:19] <gmb> :)
[15:19] <barry>  * barry will require `bzr review-submit` with exceptions.
[15:19] <barry> done
[15:20] <barry> (in the sense that i emailed that policy)
[15:20] <barry> [TOPIC] queue status
[15:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  queue status
[15:20] <barry> there are still a few long standing items in the queue over the sla
[15:21] <barry> i know stub's branch that jtv is reviewing will just take a while
[15:21] <barry> i'm not sure what the status is of adeuring's branch w/ jamesh
[15:21] <barry> gmb, salgado, BjornT what are the statuses of your older branches?
[15:21] <jtv> barry: stub's branch is also not completely finished yet.
[15:22] <intellectronica> barry: there's another branch of stub which danilo and i decided not to touch for now, since it a zope branch. i think stub should make arrangements for someone to review it
[15:22] <barry> jtv: should it be moved to work-in-progress then?
[15:22] <barry> intellectronica: is that stub/zope/devel?
[15:22] <jtv> barry: I'm not sure it matters much at this stage, it's an "interactive" review.
[15:22] <intellectronica> barry: BjornT is absent today, he's in meetings
[15:22] <gmb> barry: The needs-review* one is actually now a wip, I think, due to a discussion with mpt. I'll talk to abently about it later today.
[15:22] <intellectronica> barry: yes, that's the one
[15:23] <barry> jtv: okay, cool
[15:23] <flacoste> intellectronica: there is nothing in it!
[15:23] <intellectronica> flacoste: in that case, i don't mind reviewing it
[15:23] <barry> intellectronica: rs'ing it even :)
[15:24] <barry> gmb: thanks
[15:24] <barry> gmb: feel free to move it to wip if that's what it is
[15:24] <gmb> Sure.
[15:24] <barry> any other comments about the current queue?
[15:24] <sinzui> I think should remind developers to clear their merged branches  from PendingReviews.
[15:24] <barry> sinzui: good point
[15:25] <gmb> sinzui: +1
[15:25] <barry> [ACTION] barry will remind developers to clear merged branches from PR
[15:25] <MootBot> ACTION received:  barry will remind developers to clear merged branches from PR
[15:25] <barry> 5
[15:25] <barry> 4
[15:25] <barry> 3
[15:25] <barry> 2
[15:25] <barry> 1
[15:25] <barry> [TOPIC] mentoring update
[15:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring update
[15:25] <barry>    * allenap mentored by bac
[15:25] <barry>    * bigjools mentored by barry
[15:26] <barry> we have new victim^H^H^H^H^H^Hrecruits... yay!
[15:26] <barry> and hopefully one more for next cycle
[15:26] <gmb> Cool. Even more on-call coverage.
[15:26] <bigjools> I am not starting until Feb 4 though
[15:26] <bac> i would like to talk to someone off-line about how mentoring and on-call work.
[15:26] <barry> if anybody feels like they could mentor someone, let me know
[15:27] <barry> bac: maybe we can chat about that next week f2f?
[15:27] <barry> bigjools: yep
[15:27] <bac> barry: good idea
[15:27] <barry> also, any mentors who feel their recruits are ready to graduate, please let me know
[15:27] <bigjools> and I am on leave the following week :)
[15:28] <barry> bigjools: cool.  just means more piling up for you when you get back :)
[15:28] <bigjools> barry: in more ways than you can imagine
[15:28] <barry> moving on because we only have 15 minutes and lots more to cover :/
[15:28] <barry> [TOPIC] review process
[15:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  review process
[15:29] <barry> i'll do the quick ones first (hopefully)
[15:29] <barry>    * SteveA (or barry), use of properties instead of `__call__` in TALES
[15:29] <barry>    * SteveA (or barry), use of raw strings for regexps only
[15:29] <barry> steve asked me to communicate two coding policies, if we all agree
[15:29] <barry> i'll bring these up on the m.l. but briefly...
[15:30] <barry> we want to discourage __call__ in TALES in favor of properties
[15:30] <barry> and we want to discourage the use of raw strings for anything except regexp patterns
[15:30] <barry> does anybody not know what those mean?
[15:30] <allenap> barry: Can you explain the reasons?
[15:31] <barry> allenap: i think it's a consistency thing and easy of reading for #1
[15:31] <barry> for #2, steve observed cargo culting of raw strings in places where they weren't needed
[15:31] <flacoste> i'm all for #2
[15:31] <intellectronica> barry: actually, there's a more important reason for #1
[15:31] <barry> so suggested that devs may not understand what raw strings are for
[15:32] <danilos> if we're ever to go into localising launchpad, we'll have to get more raw strings in views (as compared to page templates)
[15:32] <barry> and suggested that a good rule of thumb is to always use them for regexps and never for anything else
[15:32] <flacoste> and i usually don't mind #1
[15:32] <intellectronica> because of the way zope traverses in expressions
[15:32] <sinzui> barry: +1
[15:32] <barry> (although it would be good to explain why raw strings are in python of course)
[15:32] <barry> intellectronica: go ahead...
[15:32] <intellectronica> zope traverses properties, but stops at the result of a method call
[15:32] <barry> danilos: we can cross that bridge when we get there :)
[15:32] <flacoste> actually
[15:33] <intellectronica> so my_object/my_property/an_attribute is fine
[15:33] <danilos> other than that, parsing specially formatted textual files like PO files requires a lot of hard-coded strings as well
[15:33] <intellectronica> but my_object/result_of_method_call/an_attribute doesn't work
[15:33] <flacoste> i think what #1 is about is not to use method call in TALES
[15:33] <danilos> flacoste: that's how I read it as well
[15:33] <intellectronica> oh, in that case i don't understand
[15:34] <barry> danilos: exceptions are okay, if you really need them, but reviewers should scrutinize raw string usage carefully
[15:34] <flacoste> because TALES will always implicitely call the end result
[15:34] <flacoste> that's why there is no nocall: expression
[15:34] <danilos> barry: ok, point taken, we should probably take the discussion on-list
[15:34] <barry> danilos: +1
[15:34] <bac> barry: are you proposing raw strings used nowhere but regex AND regex must use raw strings?  or just the former?
[15:35] <barry> [ACTION] barry to take raw string coding standard to the ml
[15:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to take raw string coding standard to the ml
[15:35] <barry> bac: both
[15:36] <barry> intellectronica: would you like to bring up the __call__ thing on the ml?
[15:36] <intellectronica> barry: if flacoste is right then i have no idea what it's about - i rather have someone else clarify first
[15:36] <danilos> btw, does the no string rule include docstrings? ;)
[15:37]  * danilos runs away...
[15:37] <barry> intellectronica: okay.  i'll ask SteveA to do it since he brought it up :)
[15:37] <barry> danilos: we'll take that to the ml
[15:37] <barry> moving on since i really want to get to sinzui's item
[15:37] <barry>    * on-callers use PendingReviews?
[15:37] <sinzui> \o/
[15:38] <barry> i just want to take a quick vote and we can discuss more on the ml
[15:38] <barry> [VOTE] do you as an on-caller want to use PR +1 or not -1?
[15:38] <MootBot> Please vote on:  do you as an on-caller want to use PR +1 or not -1?.
[15:38] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[15:38] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting
[15:38] <flacoste> +0
[15:38] <MootBot> Abstention received from flacoste. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[15:38] <barry> +1
[15:38] <MootBot> +1 received from barry. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:38] <bac> -0
[15:38] <bigjools> -1
[15:38] <gmb> -1
[15:38] <MootBot> -1 received from bigjools. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[15:38] <MootBot> -1 received from gmb. 1 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
[15:38] <bac> +0
[15:38] <MootBot> Abstention received from bac. 1 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
[15:38] <intellectronica> +1
[15:38] <MootBot> +1 received from intellectronica. 2 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
[15:38] <danilos> -1 (when I'm provided with enough of the relevant information)
[15:39] <MootBot> -1 received from danilos. 2 for, 3 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
[15:39] <sinzui> +0
[15:39] <MootBot> Abstention received from sinzui. 2 for, 3 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
[15:39] <statik> +0
[15:39] <MootBot> Abstention received from statik. 2 for, 3 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -1
[15:39] <barry> cool, thanks for the feedback
[15:39] <intellectronica> i think that while PR sucks, the solution is to replace it with something better, not to give up on tracking reviews
[15:39] <bigjools> I would like to point out that the whole point of on-call is to speed up reviews after the Lean training suggested we do 1-day branches.  If PR is needed for tracking, the branch is too big to do an on-call.
[15:40] <gmb> bigjools: Agreed.
[15:40] <intellectronica> bigjools: not so. unless there's exceptional load, almost everything can be done on call
[15:40] <bigjools> also true - so anything requiring PR is too big...
[15:40] <bac> yes, if a branch is handled during the on-call day, then no need for PR.  throw it in PR if size of the branch or problems lead to it not being completed during the cycle.
[15:40] <barry> btw, i like it mostly for the pending-reviews page
[15:41] <barry> okay, sorry to cut this short.  we'll continue discussion on the ml.
[15:41] <barry> [TOPIC]  * On-call reviews
[15:41] <MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
[15:41] <MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 3 against. 4 abstained. Total: -1
[15:41] <MootBot> New Topic:   * On-call reviews
[15:41] <barry>    * Keeping the time to around 8 hours
[15:41] <barry> sinzui: you have the floor, 3 minutes :)
[15:42] <sinzui> bigjools: Not necessarily. I am a slow reviewer. 600 lines is 3h for me. If you want something reviewed near the end of my day, I may need to take that branch up another day.
[15:42] <bigjools> sinzui: if it's near the end of the day, I don't submit for review
[15:43] <barry> sinzui: don't accept big branches near the end of your day
[15:43] <sinzui> Without PendingReviews, YOU would have to sit on your branch until another on-call reviewer is available. We also have a practice of reassigning branches at the end of the day.
[15:44] <danilos> sinzui: wasn't this about on-call reviews and not about non-on-call reviews? i.e. if you are not using on-call, you just put it onto PendingReviews
[15:44] <barry> sinzui: i thought you were going to mention that you spend 20 hours doing reviews last week
[15:44] <sinzui> barry: It's not that simple, Some branches arrive, and run out to be needs-reply, and a conversation in IRC is not going to fix that
[15:45] <barry> sinzui: true
[15:45]  * sinzui appologises for the confusion, I was actually responding to a remark on IRC /before/ I was given the floor.
[15:46] <barry> well, we've run out of time.  sinzui can we take this to the ml?
[15:46] <barry> sorry about that :(
[15:46] <sinzui> I will
[15:46] <barry> sinzui: thanks!
[15:46] <barry> #endmeeting
[15:46] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:46.
[15:46] <barry> thanks everyone
[15:46] <bigjools> thanks barry
[15:46] <intellectronica> thanks barry