[15:38] <smagoun> lool: I posted a debdiff for the hildon glade file in cheese yesterday; did you get a chance to look at it? people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/cheese-2.21.5-update-hildon-glade.debdiff
[15:39] <smagoun> try again: http://people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/cheese-2.21.5-update-hildon-glade.debdiff 
[15:39] <lool> smagoun: I got it, yes
[15:39] <lool> smagoun: But you weren't on IRC when I wanted to reply
[15:39] <lool> smagoun: I didn't try it out though
[15:39] <smagoun> lool: sorry, wife and kid to attend to :)
[15:40] <lool> smagoun: Oh sure, I don't expect you to be around all the time
[15:40] <lool> smagoun: So one option is that I go pester my sponsor to sponsor this additional update, but I think it would be simpler if you could simply request sponsoring for this debdiff
[15:41] <lool> smagoun: There's no reason it shouldn't go to hardy right now :)
[15:41] <smagoun> lool: I'd be happy to. I assume I need to fix the version in the changelog (from ubuntu1um1 to ubuntu2)?
[15:41] <lool> smagoun: I guess either one of StevenK or Mithrandir could sponsor it; I asked seb128 to sponsor my upload; you can request sponsoring for main via bug reports to launchpad
[15:41] <lool> smagoun: Correct
[15:42] <lool> smagoun: I would mention that the changes are in the 40_hildon patch
[15:42] <lool> smagoun: If you get access to the cheese.hildon.glade file, it would be nice to send the updated file to Matthew
[15:43] <lool> smagoun: Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>
[15:43] <smagoun> alright, I'll file a bug. Am I correct that I need to attach the debdiff to the bug, assign the bug to myself, mark it as confirmed, then subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to the bug?
[15:43] <lool> smagoun: That sounds about right
[15:43] <smagoun> lool: I'll sent it to him, thanks
[15:43] <lool> smagoun: You can also pester Mithrandir and StevenK I guess :-P
[15:44] <lool> smagoun: The bug is nice though as it will allow you to present your work for MOTU candidacy
[15:44] <smagoun> :)
[15:44] <lool> You do want to become MOTU _right_?  :)
[15:46] <smagoun> lool: absolument!
[15:57] <agoliveira> smagoun: ... and may God have mercy upon your soul...
[15:58] <Hobbsee> hah
[15:58] <Hobbsee> agoliveira: said by a non-MOTU :)
[15:58] <agoliveira> Hobbsee: That's exactly my point :)
[15:59] <Hobbsee> agoliveira: then again, that could be said for many things
[15:59] <davidm> Hello
[15:59] <Mithrandir> packaging is hard, let's go shopping.
[15:59]  * Hobbsee waves to davidm
[16:00] <Mithrandir> hiya David
[16:00] <agoliveira> Hobbsee: Mithrandir, I wish...
[16:00] <agoliveira> davidm: Hi again
[16:00] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: not particulary hard I guess, just freaking boring.
[16:01] <Hobbsee> agoliveira: not enough problem solving?
[16:03] <agoliveira> Hobbsee: No, far from it. Just not the kind I like. To me it's like go to the dentist. I know I have to and I do it from time to time but it does not mean I have to like it.
[16:04] <Hobbsee> mmm
[16:04] <Hobbsee> agoliveira: so get rid of it, and get dumped with all the incredibly difficult problems instead?
[16:05] <agoliveira> Hobbsee: Maybe :) but I don't have a choice, it's part of my job.
[16:06] <agoliveira> I mean, if I want to keep my job, of course :)
[16:07]  * Hobbsee would have thought there would be other people happy to do more packaging, and shelve some of their more complicated stuff that they didn't like doing.
[16:07] <Hobbsee> (ie, and swap)
[16:07] <Hobbsee> unless the aim is to get you skilled in every section, of course
[16:08] <agoliveira> Hobbsee: Yeah, maybe I can get a raise after all :P
[16:09] <Hobbsee> agoliveira: a raise would be required?  i would have thought it was worth it from the job satisfaction POV
[16:12] <agoliveira> Hobbsee: Not required but aways nice nonetheless. But don't get me wrong, I really like my job as a whole and specially the company I'm working for (or I rather leave, I'm not shy in that department) just there's some things I "dislike" to do more than others, that's all.
[16:13] <lool> agoliveira: Are you going to the Bossa Conference on open source and mobile devices?
[16:13] <Hobbsee> agoliveira: eparse - the bit in the brackets
[16:14] <ian_brasil> lool: yes i think so
[16:14] <lool> Would be nice to represent UME there and meet the maemo folks I'd guess
[16:15] <agoliveira> lool: Well, I really want to be there, just need davidm's ok ;)
[16:15] <ian_brasil> you seen the place in Recife..very chic
[16:16] <lool> davidm: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8375523931.html
[16:16] <lool> funded by ian_brasil's company IIUC?
[16:16] <ian_brasil> i wish it were my company...you see the first quarter results?
[16:17] <ian_brasil> Nokia on Thursday reported fourth quarter 2007 net sales of EUR 15.7 billion
[16:17] <agoliveira> lool: Actually, I added that to the conferenceattendence wiki a few weeks ago.
[16:19] <ian_brasil> and debconf in argentina too
[16:22] <lool> Nokia is too rich
[16:22] <lool> They should give money away
[16:23] <Mithrandir> they give out hardware instead.
[16:24] <ian_brasil> it is a drop in the ocean fir sure but have a look at http://shareideas.org/index.php/Main_Page 
[16:24] <lool> Mithrandir: By *cough* mirror
[16:27] <lool> *error
[16:27] <lool> Damn
[16:27] <lool> How could I write mirror instead of error
[16:50] <suihkulokki> lool: they do give money away. buy shares and they'll give you too :)
[16:51] <lool> suihkulokki: haha
[16:57] <HappyCamp_laptop> agoliveira: Did you get a coat for the trip?
[16:58] <agoliveira> HappyCamp_laptop: Yeah, bought a good one in a sports store. The kind one uses for trekking, warm and waterproof.
[16:58] <HappyCamp_laptop> Good to hear :)  I'm sure you will survive
[16:58] <HappyCamp_laptop> We do keep the buildings fairly warm ;)
[16:59] <agoliveira> HappyCamp_laptop: I lived in NJ/NY for some time during winter so I have a good idea :)
[16:59] <HappyCamp_laptop> Well we don't get that cold here!
[17:00] <agoliveira> HappyCamp_laptop: I tought it was actually colder but below a certain point it's all the same to me :)
[17:00] <davidm> #startmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:00. The chair is davidm.
[17:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:00] <davidm> It's that time again
[17:01] <davidm> I'm thinking this will be failry short since the sprint is next week and we only have two prior items and no current items yet.
[17:02]  * bspencer__ quickly updates agenda...
[17:02] <alek_desk> :)
[17:02] <davidm> [topic] Michael Frey (ChickenCutlass) to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3
[17:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Michael Frey (ChickenCutlass) to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 
[17:02] <ChickenCutlass> There is a boot chart uploaded to http://people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/mfrey-bootchart-20080117-1.png
[17:02] <ChickenCutlass> This is for ext3 since agoliveira already did charts for squashfs
[17:03] <davidm> very good
[17:03] <lool> Still quite CPU bound it seems
[17:03] <Mithrandir> ChickenCutlass: agoliveira doesn't have a menlow system, though.
[17:03] <ChickenCutlass> If anyone sees anything that jumps out please shout
[17:03] <smagoun> ChickenCutlass: that's on the C0 CB, right?
[17:03] <agoliveira> Indeed, I tried on my Q1.
[17:03] <davidm> [link] http://people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/mfrey-bootchart-20080117-1.png
[17:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/mfrey-bootchart-20080117-1.png 
[17:03] <ChickenCutlass> smagoun, yes C0 CB
[17:04] <ChickenCutlass> ah did  not know that agoliveira was on Q1
[17:04] <ChickenCutlass> not CB
[17:04] <Mithrandir> smagoun: weren't you going to talk to cjwatson about getting ckbcomp and such to not be run on each boot?
[17:04] <agoliveira> Looks even more cpu-bound than on Q1.
[17:04] <Mithrandir> also, have you tested with the hardy image?
[17:04] <smagoun> Mithrandir: once upon a time, yes. Other things have gotten in the way
[17:04] <ChickenCutlass> no -- have not done any Hardy testing
[17:05] <davidm> smagoun, can you take an action to talk to cjwatson about getting ckbcomp and such to not be run on each boot?
[17:05] <Mithrandir> smagoun: can we give you an action to get that done?  It should shave off 2s on the boot time, which is good (and basically free)
[17:05] <smagoun> davidm: yes
[17:06] <davidm> [action] smagoun, to talk to cjwatson about getting ckbcomp and such to not be run on each boot?
[17:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  smagoun, to talk to cjwatson about getting ckbcomp and such to not be run on each boot? 
[17:06] <davidm> smagoun, thanks
[17:06] <Mithrandir> it'd be interesting to see if hardy is any better as well.
[17:06] <bspencer__> I'm not certain what we've discovered (excuse my naivety)
[17:06] <Mithrandir> any chance you could be convinced to take on that?
[17:06] <bspencer__> is ext3 much faster?
[17:07] <davidm> ChickenCutlass, what would it take to run the same test on Hardy?
[17:07] <ChickenCutlass> davidm, I could run the test -- do we have a Hardy image ready?
[17:07] <agoliveira> bspencer__: It's not a very fair way to compare as we used 2 different platforms but the answer would be no.
[17:08] <ToddBrandt> here
[17:08] <davidm> ChickenCutlass, we do 
[17:08] <ChickenCutlass> davidm, ok -- give me URL and I will test it
[17:08] <bspencer__> agoliveira: sure.  so we are going to do a valid test on Menlow.. or even one on Q1 with both ?
[17:08] <davidm> We actually need to do three tests ext3 since the prior test was not on CB and then both on hardy
[17:09] <agoliveira> bspencer__: That kind of answers I guess ;)
[17:09] <davidm> [action] ChickenCutlass to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy and boot charts for gutsy ext3 on CB
[17:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ChickenCutlass to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy and boot charts for gutsy ext3 on CB 
[17:09] <davidm> Mithrandir, can you provide URL to ChickenCutlass for hardy image please?
[17:10] <amitk> is udev or related scripts maxing out the cpu between 12 and 20s?
[17:10] <bspencer__> smagoun: in your chart, does it show the time of loading Hildon/mozembed/home screen ?  I'm trying to find related info.  When does the timing measurement end during boot process?
[17:10] <davidm> [action] Mithrandir to provide ChickenCutlass URL to hardy images
[17:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Mithrandir to provide ChickenCutlass URL to hardy images 
[17:10] <Mithrandir> ChickenCutlass: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/ has hardy images
[17:10] <ChickenCutlass> Mithrandir, thanks
[17:11] <Mithrandir> amitk: it's called "kernel is in modprobe land", I think.
[17:11] <Mithrandir> amitk: but udev is spinning waiting for the kernel to return.
[17:11] <amitk> Mithrandir: i thought that was done between 2 and 7s
[17:12] <amitk> but you are probably right, there are calls to modprobe from udev too
[17:12] <Mithrandir> amitk: the first one is initramfs, the second one is the normal system
[17:12] <smagoun> bspencer__: the chart ends before mozembed starts
[17:12] <bspencer__> smagoun: so it is really >35s before the user sees a UI he can interact with
[17:12] <bspencer__> perhaps >40s
[17:13] <smagoun> bspencer__: yes. the chart doesn't include the bios (10sec) or bootloader (2sec) either
[17:13] <alek_desk> bspencer__, that's why Martin is working on fast boot
[17:13] <bspencer> alek_desk: we are interested in fast boot but normal boot is also very important to reduce
[17:13] <alek_desk> of course
[17:15] <davidm> OK can we look at this further next week at the sprint?
[17:15] <davidm> ChickenCutlass, is it possible to get the tests run before the sprint?
[17:16] <ChickenCutlass> davidm, I can do the gutsy ext3 no problem but I need a saved MIC project for Hardy to do the ext3 test
[17:16] <davidm> ChickenCutlass, OK thanks that will help
[17:16] <davidm> Mithrandir, can we get ChickenCutlass a saved MIC project for Hardy?
[17:16] <Mithrandir> bspencer: mjg59 at least is not very comfortable with shipping anything based on hibernate, since it mostly works by accident and he believes the error rate will be too high.
[17:17] <Mithrandir> davidm: I'll see if I can get him one.
[17:17] <bspencer> Mithrandir: I hear ya.
[17:17] <bspencer> I would really like to focus on reducing normal boot.
[17:17] <Mithrandir> bspencer: (I'm just the messenger here; I don't know the details, so please don't ask for them. :-)
[17:18] <davidm> [action] Mithrandir to try to get ChickenCutlass  a saved MIC project for Hardy quickly
[17:18] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Mithrandir to try to get ChickenCutlass  a saved MIC project for Hardy quickly 
[17:19] <davidm> OK can we pick this up at the sprint?
[17:19] <Mithrandir> sounds good to me
[17:19] <Mithrandir> speaking of which, will we have some C0 (or D0) systems available for hacking on?
[17:19] <davidm> Yes Mauri said we will have some
[17:19] <HappyCamp_laptop> Mithrandir: I think so, mawhalen was going to make sure we have some.
[17:20] <Mithrandir> excellent
[17:20] <davidm> 4 I think
[17:20] <davidm> [topic] Bob Spencer (bspencer) to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case.
[17:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bob Spencer (bspencer) to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case. 
[17:20] <bspencer> I have not completed my action item.  Very sorry.  Will discuss it with the team before the sprint.  I've been out of the office Friday to Wednesday (yesterday)
[17:20] <mawhalen> Yes, we will have at least 3 D0 systems to use during the Spring
[17:20] <mawhalen> Sprint
[17:20] <davidm> bspencer, I'll carry the action
[17:20] <davidm> mawhalen, thanks for update
[17:20] <davidm> [action] Bob Spencer (bspencer) to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case.
[17:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Bob Spencer (bspencer) to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case. 
[17:21] <davidm> New business
[17:21] <davidm> [topic] Hildon 2.0 release discussion (bspencer)
[17:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Hildon 2.0 release discussion (bspencer) 
[17:21] <bspencer> Hildon 2.0 has been officially released.  I would like to propose that we update to it.  Horace and I can do the work.  Here's the plan:
[17:21] <bspencer>   - Update to Hildon 2.0 in Ubuntu PPA
[17:21] <bspencer>   - Add new patches to make Hildon freedesktop.org compliant (small things)
[17:21] <bspencer>   - Add other patches already part of Ubuntu version of Hildon.
[17:21] <bspencer> (suggestions welcome)
[17:22] <bspencer> I'd like to clearly identify everything that is different from upstream and keep these separate as patches
[17:22] <bspencer> I also plan to add a webpage to moblin.org detailing the latest status of MID use of Hildon for pepole to see.
[17:22] <lool> bspencer: Did you discuss the XDG patches with upstream?
[17:23] <bspencer> I think this work will be small because we updated just 6weeks ago.  The diffs should be minor.
[17:23] <bspencer> lool, no because I didn't know if we had patches yet.
[17:23] <lool> Oh ok
[17:23] <bspencer> but we will do that.
[17:23] <lool> bfiller was also interested in participating, and naturally I am
[17:23] <bspencer> yes -- ok.  Will keep you two on all chatter I hear about it.
[17:23] <bfiller> bspencer: I have recently merged some of Horace's changes into Launchpad as well as a bunch of my own changes
[17:24] <bfiller> bspencer: we should make sure these all get included..
[17:24] <bspencer> bfiller: changes to Hildon in particular?
[17:24] <bfiller> bspencer: yes
[17:24] <bspencer> bfiller: agree  (all patches get included)
[17:24] <bspencer> bfiller: I'll take a look at your patches.  I'm interested to know what you updated.
[17:24] <bspencer> (but can do that offline)
[17:25] <bspencer> that's all I have about Hildon 2.0 from my end.
[17:25] <bfiller> bspencer: maybe we could work on testing/debugging hildon 2.0 next week at sprint?
[17:25] <lool> bspencer: One thing which might be a bit hard if we want patches as patch files is to extract our current changes as patches
[17:25] <bspencer> bfiller: great idea.  Let's set that as a goal of the sprint.
[17:25] <bspencer> lool, agree.  I like the idea though if it is possible without killing us
[17:26] <bspencer> I'd like to separate upstream with our additions.  Not sure if that is feasible.
[17:26] <lool> We can discuss this with more depth later on, but people have expressed disagreement with the usage of patches along with bzr: bzr branches should be used instead
[17:26] <lool> I personally don't mind one or the other; mixing bzr changes and patch files sounds bad though
[17:26] <bspencer> lool: true -- I recall such a discussion.  Let's chat at the sprint. 
[17:27] <lool> (I never managed a collection of patches as bzr branches so I find patch files easier for me at the moment ;)
[17:27] <lool> bspencer: *cough*
[17:27] <lool> bspencer: I wont be at the sprint
[17:27] <lool> bspencer: I'm moving to my new house after all
[17:27] <lool> (Date only slipped by 3 days)
[17:27] <bspencer> lool: ok.  new house (woo)
[17:27] <bspencer> they must pay good at canonical ;)
[17:27] <lool> Will miss you all, folks!
[17:28] <lool> bspencer: Pffff :)
[17:28] <davidm> lool, will you have time Monday to talk further?
[17:28] <lool> bspencer: Yeah, 1 house in 3 months is pretty decent pay
[17:28] <agoliveira> bspencer: They have 50 years mortgages there...
[17:28] <lool> davidm: Certainly
[17:28] <bspencer> agoliveira:  lol 
[17:28] <davidm> OK can I suggest we take this up first thing Monday then?
[17:28] <agoliveira> bspencer: I'm not joking, ask Lool!
[17:28] <lool> davidm: I guess up to wednesday included, I should be able to clear anything outstanding
[17:28] <bspencer> davidm: yes.  sounds good.  Thanks.
[17:29] <davidm> lool, great, thanks
[17:29] <lool> davidm: Absolutely, but with the TZ issue naturally
[17:29] <davidm> [action] further review of Hildon 2.0 release discussion at sprint Monday morning 
[17:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  further review of Hildon 2.0 release discussion at sprint Monday morning  
[17:29] <lool> (And while I'm at it: I wont be around from thursday next week for about 10 days)
[17:30] <davidm> OK that concludes new business
[17:30] <bspencer> lool:  so we need to settle on maintainership of the Hildon stuff too so we can make sure changes are doable while you are away
[17:30] <bspencer> (at the sprint)
[17:30] <lool> bspencer: Yep; albeit other people in the team can sort anything I suppose
[17:31] <davidm> Any other new business?
[17:31] <amitk> Intel was to provide us with a list of folks who should have logins on kernel.ubuntu.com for joint integration efforts. I haven't received those names yet.
[17:31] <davidm> bspencer, can you look into this for next week?
[17:31] <alek_desk> amitk, i know the name list
[17:31] <bspencer> davidm: yes.
[17:31] <davidm> [topic] Intel was to provide Canonical with a list of folks who should have logins on kernel.ubuntu.com
[17:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Intel was to provide Canonical with a list of folks who should have logins on kernel.ubuntu.com 
[17:32] <bspencer> oh... spoke too soon.
[17:32] <bspencer> alek_desk: can do it :)
[17:32] <amitk> alek_desk: send me the names and preferred login ids in email
[17:32] <davidm> please CC me too
[17:32] <alek_desk> amitk, sure
[17:32] <alek_desk> davidm, ok
[17:33] <davidm> [action] alek_desk: to send Amitk and Davidm the names and preferred login ids in email for kernel.ubuntu.com logins
[17:33] <MootBot> ACTION received:  alek_desk: to send Amitk and Davidm the names and preferred login ids in email for kernel.ubuntu.com logins 
[17:33] <davidm> OK any other new business?
[17:33] <davidm> amitk, please edit the wiki page with the item
[17:33] <davidm> going once............
[17:34] <amitk> davidm: sure
[17:34] <davidm> going twice............
[17:34] <davidm> #endmeeting
[17:34] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:34.
[17:35] <davidm> lool, can you join me now in the conference room near where I am sitting please?
[17:35] <lool> davidm: Absolutely
[17:35] <asac_the_2nd> raji: network manager 0.7 bits are avail my ppa ... if you wanna give it a try: https://edge.launchpad.net/~asac/+archive
[17:51] <cjwatson> Mithrandir,smagoun,davidm: pretty sure I fixed that console-setup issue already in hardy; I think I mailed some subset of you about it
[17:51] <cjwatson>   * Backport from trunk:
[17:51] <cjwatson>     - Run setupcon with --save in the postinst to ensure that required data
[17:51] <cjwatson>       is copied to /etc.
[17:51] <cjwatson>     - Load the saved keymap in /etc/console-setup/boottime.kmap.gz if
[17:51] <cjwatson>       available rather than running ckbcomp (which is slow), unless we're
[17:51] <cjwatson>       being called with --save or --save-only.
[17:51] <cjwatson> console-setup 1.19ubuntu1
[17:52] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: oh, of course.  That image is based off gutsy which explains it.
[17:52] <Mithrandir> smagoun: ^ ; you probably want to put that into the gutsy ppa.
[17:56] <cjwatson> can give you the isolated diff if you want
[17:56] <lool> If you have it available, that'd be nice
[17:58] <cjwatson> you want http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/console-setup/trunk/revision/19 and http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/console-setup/trunk/revision/20
[17:58] <lool> Thanks!
[17:59] <smagoun> cjwatson: Mithrandir thanks. I'll look at that today.
[18:55] <lool> smagoun: I have an upload for the above ready; mind if I push to the gutsy ppa for you to have a look?
[18:57] <smagoun> lool: that would be great
[19:19] <mawhalen> davidm: ping
[22:20] <smagoun> lool: the console-setup you added to the gutsy ppa seems to work. I'll try to get performance numbers tomorrow. Thanks!