[00:00] <geser> are the package introduced through revu currently maintained?
[00:00] <persia> LaserJock: Maybe.  I think the lack of UEHS was the biggest issue.  Lots of that never got updated as it was working fine.
[00:00] <persia> geser: Only weakly.  UEHS was intended to assist with that.
[00:00] <geser> I mean do the packagers update to their packages?
[00:00] <geser> :(
[00:00] <LaserJock> but the issue is that it's contributing to our maintenance load, regardless
[00:01] <LaserJock> if we need to maintain it, it's still a bigger load than syncing from Debian
[00:02] <Taggard> geser: Defien catching unmet deps
[00:02] <persia> I just don't think we should reduce features to reduce workload.  Down that road lies an embedded distro.
[00:02] <LaserJock> no
[00:02] <LaserJock> I agree to an extent
[00:03] <LaserJock> but there seems to be this constant push to package new stuff
[00:03] <LaserJock> regardless of whether it's useful or not
[00:03] <LaserJock> and that has created quite a lot of packages we have to maintain
[00:04] <persia> LaserJock: That's just a matter of fixing the documentation, and guidance we give newcomers.  Personally, I really don't like the GettingStarted page, and encourage the use of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing as a better place to start.
[00:04] <geser> if you run "apt-cache unmet -i" (preferably in a hardy environment) you get a list of packages which can't be installed as there dependencies can't be satisfied. The task it fix them (we never got the list to be empty).
[00:04] <geser> Taggard: ^^
[00:04] <persia> Taggard: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ also has a nice web report that shows some of that.
[00:04] <LaserJock> persia: agreed. I was just a little shocked. I expected to see something around 100-200
[00:05] <Taggard> geser: So just packaging new things
[00:05] <Taggard> Hmm
[00:05] <Taggard> There are a LOT of problem depends
[00:06] <persia> Taggard: Yes.  There's a lot of work remaining for hardy.  Anything you could do to help resolve them would be greatly appreciated :)
[00:06] <geser> Taggard: first you need to find out, why the are unmet deps, e.g. library transitions, removed packages but packages depending on them are still there, FTBFS, etc.
[00:07] <Taggard> Soundsl ike a good way to get involved with ubuntu
[00:07] <geser> Taggard: e.g. apache 1.3 got removed from the archive, but there are still some package left which depend on it
[00:08] <Taggard> geser: What do you do in that case?
[00:09] <geser> Taggard: check what Debian did, check if it also builds a variant for apache2 and disable then the apache1 package or remove it entirely
[00:09] <Taggard> Ahh
[00:11] <awen_> Taggard: it's a good starting point... i got started with packaging in ubuntu solving some 15 of those depending on the old apache
[00:12] <geser> Taggard: for library transitions it's often to check if it builds with the new version and do a rebuild then
[00:12] <Taggard> geser: That makes sense
[00:13] <geser> Taggard: then there is also NBS (Not Build by Source (anymore)): http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
[00:13] <geser> Taggard: these packages are currently still there but will be removed soon leading to more unmet deps, so should also be fixed
[00:14] <geser> the files list the packages still depending on them
[00:14] <mok0> I am fixing a piece of code that's giving me a bunch of warnings:  "deprecated conversion from string constant to ‘char*’" . The code becomes really ugly when you have to cast every string constant. What is the rationale behind this change of the C language?
[00:14] <geser> Taggard: so you see there is enough work where you don't need to do much programming
[00:14] <persia> There's also the conflict checker: http://conflictchecker.ubuntu.com/possible-conflicts/hardy/, when more than one package provides a file, and the packages may nee to either conflict, or one be changed.
[00:14] <persia> mok0: unicode
[00:15] <mok0> persia: I was guessing that. It still looks ugly
[00:15] <geser> mok0: is it C? I believe I've seen it on C++
[00:15] <mok0> geser: I think it's in both
[00:16] <mok0> geser: If it's unicode, C needs the change as well as C++
[00:16] <persia> mok0: Did you ever get satisfactory answers for your package merge or VCS questions?
[00:17] <mok0> Yeah
[00:18] <mcisbackuk> Hi guys, what do I do after packaging a new upstream release? What needs to be uploaded to the Launchpad bug, is it the new diff.gz and dsc, or all of the files, i.e. orig.tar.gz, diff.gz, dsc, dsc.asc, source.build, source.changes??
[00:18] <mok0> geser: I am using git now to keep track of my packaging, it works great
[00:19] <persia> mcisbackuk: An interdiff.  Thanks for the reminder: I meant to add changing that to the meeting agenda.
[00:19] <awen_> mcisbackuk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing ... look for interdiff
[00:19] <Taggard> geser: Yeha
[00:19] <Taggard> geser: Sorry
[00:19] <mcisbackuk> I couldn't find it on there..
[00:20]  * persia thinks https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Interdiff is a better URL
[00:20] <mcisbackuk> persia: You're welcome lol
[00:20] <mcisbackuk> OK so once I've created the interdiff, what needs uploaded?
[00:20] <persia> mcisbackuk: The interdiff.
[00:21] <awen_> persia: didn't know that one :)
[00:21] <mcisbackuk> persia: Just that?
[00:21] <persia> mcisbackuk: Well, it's good to make sure your watch file will grab the latest upstream, but yes.
[00:21] <Taggard> http://pastie.caboo.se/143928 > I get this when I am trying to do the Building a package tutorial
[00:22] <mcisbackuk> persia: Coolio, thanks for your help....again :)
[00:22] <persia> Taggard: Try debuild.  It wraps dpkg-buildpackage and makes sure you are using fakeroot
[00:22] <persia> Alternately, install the fakeroot package
[00:22] <Taggard> persia: debuild where?
[00:23] <persia> andy@andy-desktop:~/hello/hello-2.3$ debuild -S
[00:23] <Taggard> Okay (:
[00:23] <Taggard> persia: Errors
[00:23] <bddebian> Heya gnag
[00:23] <bddebian> Err gang
[00:24] <Taggard> persia: http://pastie.caboo.se/143929
[00:24] <Taggard> hI bddebian
[00:24] <bddebian> Hello Taggard
[00:24] <bddebian> persia: Heya.  How are you with perl/glade? :)
[00:24] <persia> Taggard: cd ..
[00:24] <Taggard> Oh, yeah right
[00:24] <Taggard> I am dumb
[00:24] <persia> bddebian: Never touched it :)  How can I help?
[00:24] <bddebian> hehe
[00:24] <mcisbackuk> persia: One last question sorry lol IF the build of the new source packages fail with debuild will it tell me, I mean if I've done the dependencies wrong will it tell me?
[00:25] <persia> mcisbackuk: Yes.  Also, best to ask questions generally, even if you know I'll likely answer.  Means I can step away for a bit :)
[00:26] <Taggard> persia: I get the exact same erorr
[00:26] <Taggard> error
[00:26] <mcisbackuk> persia: lol sorry, but thanks alot anyway :) appreciated :)
[00:26] <bddebian> I'm trying to move dfontmgr to libgtk2-perl and libgtk2-gladexml-perl but it's kicking my arse.  I'm not sure how to get rid of RunPerl
[00:28] <awen_> Taggard: does debian/rules exists, and does it have executable rights?
[00:28] <Taggard> awen_: Yep
[00:30] <dcordero> hi
[00:32] <dcordero> i have learn how to create my own packages from source codes, and i have practice with various programs. What i could do for start helping on ubuntu?
[00:33] <awen_> Taggard: sounds strange... seems like it complains for a missing makefile (some error in the rules file maybe)
[00:34] <Taggard> awen_: Hmm
[00:34] <persia> bddebian: Do you have a WIP I can hack at?
[00:35] <Taggard> persia: Are you a team leader or somesuch?
[00:36] <persia> Taggard: Nope.  I hope to be a member of Council, but won't find out for a few more days.
[00:36] <Taggard> persia: Ooh :)
[00:36] <bddebian> persia: I haven't gotten far.  I just changed the build deps and see what breaks.  I'm hoping most of the stuff is just gtk -> gtk2 calls but this Glade::RunPerl::pixmaps_directory I don't see a direct replacement for
[00:37] <geser> Taggard: persia is a very active motu
[00:37] <Taggard> What makes someone an official MOTU?
[00:37] <geser> Taggard: when you hang around here some time, you will often read the same nicks
[00:38] <persia> Taggard: The process of helping (and eventually joining) MOTU is described in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[00:38] <pochu> Taggard: And you will end asking questions directly to persia (as everybody does), and persia will be annoyed by that :-)
[00:39]  * awen_ is confused... why would someone package version 0.6 of a package in 2001 when version 0.9 had been avaible since 1999
[00:39] <persia> bddebian: Hrm.  `grep -ri RunPerl *` in the defoma directory gets me nothing :(
[00:39] <bddebian> Or you just whine and complain enough like me and they let you in.. ;-P
[00:39] <bddebian> persia: Sorry, it's PerlRun, I'm dyslexic :(
[00:40] <Taggard> pochu: Hehe
[00:40] <Taggard> Debhelper is fancy!
[00:41] <Taggard> cd de
[00:41] <Taggard> Oops
[00:41] <Taggard> :X
[00:44] <LaserJock> awen_: maybe that's the latest version they found?
[00:45] <bddebian> persia: Actually I'm thinking about just replacing "$Glade::PerlRun::pixmaps_directory/glade2perl_logo.xpm" with "" anyway :)
[00:45] <persia> bddebian: That somehow seems excessive.  Does it work?
[00:45] <awen_> LaserJock: found the reason... the copyright just pointed at cpan.org so had some trouble finding the right package :)
[00:46] <bddebian> persia: Currently, or you mean if I use "" ?
[00:46] <persia> ""
[00:46] <bddebian> That glade2perl_logo.xpm file I can only find in a package called taxbird
[00:46] <bddebian> I don't think it would change anything since I think that file is really missing anyway
[00:47] <persia> Sounds safe...Does it work?
[00:47] <bddebian> Haven't tried it yet :)
[00:49] <Taggard> http://pastie.caboo.se/143935 : Is this bad?
[00:50] <Taggard> Should I be replacing that nice?
[00:50] <persia> Taggard: It can be (and is very common).  If your make clean breaks in a way you didn't expect, it won't tell you.  Better to figure out why it is failing, and trap those conditions.
[00:50] <Taggard> line*
[00:51] <Taggard> persia: I changed the line and it stopped moaning
[00:52] <bddebian> Ugh, DfontmgrUI.pm is going to be much worse :(
[00:53] <awen_> seems to have lost the link for how to get a sponsor for package removal... anyone has a link to the page describing it?
[00:54] <persia> bddebian: PerlRun pixmaps handling is now deprecated in favor of the improved icon cache stuff (as far as I can tell).  Safe to kill all that.
[00:54] <persia> awen_: Just subscribe the sponsors team to your bug as usual.
[00:54] <awen_> persia: any special status required?
[00:55] <persia> Generally New is preferred.  The sponsors will set Confirmed when forwarding to the archive admins.
[00:56] <bddebian> persia: Yeah, I killed that but DfontmgrUI.pm uses "use Glade::PerlRun; "  :-(
[00:57] <dmaster> where can I find .iso file help?
[00:57] <Taggard> .. YAY!
[00:57] <Taggard> I just made my first ubuntu package!
[00:58] <LaserJock> Taggard: rockin!
[00:58] <persia> bddebian: `grep -ri PerlRun * | grep -v pixmaps` tells me that you shouldn't care.
[00:59] <Taggard> I don't acutally know where it went though.
[00:59] <Taggard> dpkg-buildpackage said it is in .. but it isn't
[01:00]  * persia encourages someone to hijack bug #152348 so we have it fixed for hardy
[01:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152348 in mmm-mode "on feisty, the mmm-mode package forces installing emacs21 instead of emacs22" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152348
[01:00] <Taggard> persia: Is this an easy bug?
[01:01] <Taggard> persia: Doesn't this just involve fixing some dependancies in debian/*
[01:01] <persia> Taggard: Yep.  And there's a patch.  It just needs a little massage to be included.
[01:01] <Taggard> persia: Do you think .. I could do it *gasp*
[01:02] <persia> Taggard: Sure.  Give it a shot.
[01:02] <Taggard> persia: Okay
[01:02] <Taggard> persia: Can I be annoying and ask you if I am doing it right?
[01:02] <persia> Taggard: No, but you can ask for help in this channel, and I may well answer :)
[01:02] <Taggard> Hehe
[01:04] <pochu> Taggard: do you see it? I told you you would end asking him directly ;-)
[01:06] <Taggard> Hmm, I don't actually know how to apply the patch
[01:06] <Taggard> And hwat to apply it to
[01:06] <persia> Taggard: Look in the testing debdiffs section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[01:07] <Taggard> Okay
[01:16] <Taggard> I updated the dependancies and added this to the changelog but I remember seeing somewhere I included the bugid in the changelog but I forgot where and how
[01:16] <Taggard> Can anyone tell me?
[01:17] <persia> Taggard: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClosingBugsFromChangelog
[01:17] <Taggard> (:
[01:22] <Taggard> I get this now: http://pastie.caboo.se/143941
[01:22] <Taggard> (Sorry for all this newishness)
[01:23] <bddebian> persia: The way I read the Gtk2::GladXML stuff, I shouldn't have to use the generated perl files at all I don't think
[01:25] <persia> bddebian: cruft removal for the win!
[01:31] <LaserJock> Taggard: that looks ok
[01:31] <Taggard> LaserJock: oh.. I'm silly
[01:31] <Taggard> Ugh
[01:31] <Taggard> I thought that was meant to compile
[01:31] <Taggard> That is pbuilder isn't it
[01:32] <Taggard> Okay, well, I've compiled it
[01:32] <Taggard> It says it put it in .. but it didn't
[01:32] <Taggard> So I don't know where it is
[01:35] <pochu> Taggard: /var/cache/pbuilder/result/ possibly
[01:36] <Taggard> Okay
[01:38] <emgent> heya *
[01:38] <Taggard> Yup, it is there.
[01:39] <Taggard> Okay, so what now?
[01:39] <Taggard> I have fixed the bug.
[01:41] <persia> Taggard: Review the contributing page again.  Make sure you are only incrementing the Ubuntu revision, attach the debdiff, and subscribe the sponsors.
[01:43] <Taggard> Okay :)
[01:44] <Taggard> xemacs22-basesupport (>= 2003.11.13-1): This is a requirement in the control file I noticed after I built the .deb. I Now think I should be changing the date to something but I don't know what. Any ideas?
[01:45] <persia> Taggard: If you haven't already, you might want to look at the other patches attached to the bug.  My memory is that it was a good solution, and the only missing part was with the changelog (although circumstances may have changed in the meantime)
[01:46] <Taggard> Ahhh, yes.
[01:50] <awen_> libapache-* packages with broken depends for hardy slowly approaching zero :)
[01:50] <persia> awen_: Excellent work.  Thanks.
[01:52] <awen_> persia: i've sent three more removal requests at the sponsor list now... so only one left; awaiting some sort of reply from the debian maintainer for a little longer
[01:52] <persia> awen_: Do you have your next project already planned?
[01:53] <vorian> evening :)
[01:54] <awen_> persia: next project = going to bed.... but i could be needing a project for tomorrow, if you have one lying around? ;)
[01:55] <persia> awen_: I generally recommend people find projects that interest them, but if you're stuck for what to do after you finish the apache1 rdepends, I can probably find you something.
[01:55] <Taggard> This is annoying me :(
[01:57] <awen_> persia: i'm trying to get the imapsync package to work for hardy atm.; but hope to get it through debian as it needs a new package to be included
[01:58] <persia> awen_: Feature Freeze is 14th February.  With the deadline looming, REVU may be faster (although there are only two more REVU days, so it may not be)
[01:58] <RAOF> Hooray for cooperative upstreams!  gtk-nodoka-engine now has license headers.
[01:59] <awen_> persia: it needs an old version of a package; so need to include it with a new package-name and patch it so it can co-exist alongside the new version... and that package should really be called the same in both debian and ubuntu i suppose
[02:00] <persia> awen_: Would it not be better to port the app to work with the new version?
[02:01] <dcordero> hi, i have a problem solving a bug, i am updating a package tacking as source a debian package, have i write on changelog something?
[02:01] <awen_> persia: i've talked to the maintainer... he has started the project slowly, but has given up porting to the new version; so this seems the best solution to me for now
[02:04] <awen_> but as always; i might be wrong, good proposals is welcome :)
[02:06] <vorian> ping pochu :)
[02:06] <persia> vorian: Better to ask your question (and I agree with pochu)
[02:07] <vorian> persia: on the upstream site, it says this package requires chmlib and htmldoc
[02:07] <vorian> http://code.google.com/p/chm2pdf/
[02:07]  * persia looks harder
[02:07] <vorian> The package builds fine with no lintian warnings
[02:07] <bkudria> i'm new to fixing ubuntu packages, and i'm previewing my debdiff, and it looks like it's added and deleted identical lines (in the description in debian/control).  i only chnaged the maintainer to MOTU from the debian address, and i didn't change the description at all.  why is the extra change appearing?
[02:07] <vorian> well, with the suggested changes
[02:08] <persia> bkudria: Likely whitespace issues.  Pastebin your debdiff?
[02:08] <vorian> I made the changes, I just wanted to make sure this was the right decision
[02:08] <bkudria> persia: certainly
[02:09] <bkudria> persia: http://pastebin.ca/874072 , referring to lines 18 and 19
[02:09] <pochu> vorian: pong
[02:09] <vorian> hey pochu, thanks for your feedback
[02:10] <persia> vorian: You're entirely correct about htmlkdoc.  I had been looking at libchm1 and the licensing.
[02:10] <Taggard> I've updated all of the emacs21 instances in the Depends field apart from xemacs21-basesupport because there isn't an xmacs22
[02:10] <Taggard> Ugh
[02:10] <vorian> pochu: I was just trying to clarify what you recommended vs what the upstream site recommended
[02:10] <persia> Taggard: You likely don't want to update: rather support all the different emacs.  The problem was the comma
[02:10] <vorian> persia: ok, thanks for checking :)
[02:11] <Taggard> persia: I am pretty bad at this
[02:11] <persia> Taggard: No, just new :)
[02:11] <pochu> vorian: well, the package doesn't import those (specially since they aren't python modules ;) and doesn't call them with os.popen...
[02:11] <Taggard> Okay
[02:11] <persia> pochu: os.system
[02:11] <Taggard> How do I support all of them?
[02:12] <bkudria> persia: so, can I just remove the lines from the debdiff?  which ones, exactly?
[02:12] <Taggard> I was doing exactly the same as the patch and it still required emacs21
[02:12] <vorian> should I set these two packages to recommends/suggests then?
[02:13] <persia> bkudria: I don't see a difference, but be careful editing diffs (edtidiff can help).
[02:13] <persia> Taggard: | in dependencies means OR
[02:13] <bkudria> persia: i'll try that, thanks
[02:13] <persia> s/edtidiff/editdiff/
[02:13] <Taggard> persia: Okay
[02:13] <Taggard> Thanks
[02:14] <Taggard> Ooooooooooooh
[02:14] <Taggard> I understand now
[02:14] <vorian> :)
[02:14] <persia> vorian: At least for htmldoc, Depends: is correct.  I haven't looked into the others.
[02:14] <pochu> persia: crap. You're right
[02:14]  * persia advocates grep -ri *
[02:14] <pochu> vorian: ignore my comment.
[02:14] <vorian> Taggard: isn't that a great feeling :)
[02:14] <dcordero> ok, i have a new package that fix a bug, This package is the new version of a "aplication". How can i send it now? where? someone can help me?
[02:15] <pochu> persia: well grepping for os.popen didn't show them ;)
[02:15] <vorian> pochu: I did fix the copyright
[02:15] <Taggard> vorian: Yep!
[02:15] <Taggard> vorian: :D
[02:15] <persia> pochu: grep -ri htmldoc * does :p
[02:16] <persia> dcordero: Sounds like an upstream update.  Check the Contributing page, hit the othe bugs in the package, and submit an interdiff
[02:17] <awen_> 14. of february is in general last change of getting new packages in? ... any dates earlier than this one i should be aware of?
[02:17] <pochu> vorian: great. I'll upload it then.
[02:17] <persia> awen_: 4th February is the last scheduled REVU day
[02:17] <eddyMul> Hi. I'm (very) new to Ubuntu packaging. I'm trying to package "WWW SQL Designer" from http://ondras.zarovi.cz/sql/ . Upstream makes releases in ZIP instead of tarballs. Should I unzip and re-tar?
[02:18] <persia> pochu: Who is second advocate?  Also, I don't see the update on REVU
[02:18] <dcordero> persia, thanks
[02:18] <pochu> persia: I'm the second one. And I'm waiting for the update :)
[02:18] <persia> pochu: Advocates are counted by upload, no>
[02:18] <persia> s/>/?/
[02:18] <pochu> persia: do you mean ScottK's vote doesn't count anymore?
[02:18] <vorian> pochu: just uploaded the change
[02:19] <vorian> thanks for being patient with me :)
[02:19] <persia> eddyMul: Two schools of thought about that.  Most would recommend unzipping and building a tar.
[02:19] <bkudria> persia: i get: "diff -u ruby-prof-0.5.2/debian/control ruby-prof-0.5.2/debian/control, rediff: Not supported: +" when trying to use rediff.  any idea?
[02:19] <pochu> persia: this was just linking to GPL-2 in debian/copyright
[02:19] <Taggard> Is there anyway to "fake" installing a package
[02:19] <persia> pochu: According to current practice, it doesn't.
[02:19] <Taggard> Like just to test what it requires and such
[02:19] <pochu> persia: okie
[02:19] <vorian> yeah, the copyright was a bit rough
[02:20] <awen_> i would need an introduction to revu before that then :) ... i suppose a request to sync from debian should be posted around the 4/2 also?
[02:20] <persia> bkudria: Not really.  I usually just repatch and regenerate the debdiff.  editing diffs has caused me pain in the past.
[02:20] <eddyMul> persia: I'll try that for a start. Thanks.
[02:20] <bkudria> persia: oh, ok.  i'll try that
[02:20] <persia> awen_: That makes for the best chance that it would get done before the freeze.
[02:22] <awen_> persia: but if the package in hardy is currently unusable and debian has a working one, it should still have a chance past freeze, or?
[02:23] <persia> awen_: Requires a freeze exception.  If it fixes a nasty bug, and doesn't break anything else, it may well get approved.  On the other hand, this will require more effort on your part to weave through the processes.
[02:23] <pochu> vorian: linking to GPL-2 instead of GPL would have been better, since GPL is now a symlink to GPL-3. Although at the license is GPL2+ and not GPL2-only, I guess it's not a blocker. Advocating.
[02:23] <vorian> thanks pochu
[02:24] <pochu> vorian: no, wait.
[02:24] <pochu> vorian: extract_chmLib and enum_chmLib are in libchm-bin, so you need to change libchm1 with libchm-bin in Depends:
[02:24] <vorian> yes
[02:24] <pochu> vorian: so change that and link to GPL-2 :)
[02:24] <vorian> sure thing
[02:27] <eddyMul> persia: just curious: what's the "other" way of handling zips, other than re-tar-ing?
[02:28] <awen_> persia: i'll work on getting this done before freeze then! ... i suppose "won't do anything apart from casting exceptions" could be called nasty bug :)
[02:28] <persia> eddyMul: Wrapping the zip in a tarball and unzipping during the build.  Don't do that unless you have a really good reason.
[02:28] <persia> awen_: Yep :)
[02:29] <eddyMul> persia: ouch. I see. Thanks. I'll stick with re-tar-ing.
[02:29] <Taggard> Ugh, I have absoloutely no idea why this isn't working.
[02:29] <awen_> must be time now... night everyone
[02:29] <persia> eddyMul: Don't forget to document the process by automating with a get-orig-source rule in debian/rules
[02:30] <Taggard> The dependancy list is "emacs22 | emacs21 | emacsen | emacs-snapshot | xemacs21-basesupport (>= 2003.11.13-1)" and I have emacs22 installed but it still makes me install emacs21.
[02:31] <bkudria> i want to submit a debdiff for sponsorship and review, but the wiki links to a breokn script: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess .  can anyone tell me how to send the request email myself?  alternativly, i already have an LP bug open(#184946), should i just attach the debdiff to that?
[02:32] <persia> bkudria: Just attach the debdiff to the bug.  Feel free to update that wiki page to be less confusing.
[02:32] <persia> bkudria: Also, remember to subscribe the relevant sponsors team for the package you are updating.
[02:33] <bkudria> persia: ok, i'll do that.  the orginal replier (dholbach) to my bug did request going through the sponsorship process.  is subscribing all i need to do?
[02:33] <persia> bkudria: Subscribe, unassign, and set "Confirmed" or "Triaged".
[02:34] <bkudria> persia: ok, thanks
[02:38] <eddyMul> persia: debian/rules: get-orig-source: where can I read more about this? (my gut tells me to add this target (get-orig-source) inside debian/rules. Am I right?)
[02:39] <persia> eddyMul: You have it correct.  http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules documents it.
[02:40] <bkudria> persia: hmm, dholbach requests that it be set back to new.  what's the usual way of doing this?  or does it not matter?
[02:41] <eddyMul> persia: Thanks. What's an example source package with get-orig-source that I can look at?
[02:41] <persia> bkudria: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue is authoritative
[02:42] <persia> (some bugs get "New", and some get "Confirmed" or Triaged", depending on the nature of the sponsorship request)
[02:42] <persia> eddyMul: I don't know of any off-hand that do zip -> tar.gz.  Maybe someone else can help?
[02:43] <eddyMul> persia: how does get-orig-source perform the "get"? Does it use `wget`? or `uscan`? or something else?
[02:44] <persia> eddyMul: I prefer seeing packages that use uscan, but when that doesn't work, wget usually does.  There's no requirement to document the packages required to make get-orig-source work in debian/control.
[02:45] <eddyMul> persia: so I don't need to document that "build depends" includes, among others, zip and uscan?
[02:46]  * Hobbsee waves
[02:46] <persia> eddyMul: Not if those are only used in get-orig-source
[02:46]  * Hobbsee waves
[02:46] <eddyMul> persia: I see. Thanks!
[02:46] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
[02:46]  * persia wonders if Hobbsee's wave frequency is 20 seconds, and expects a null result
[02:46] <Hobbsee> hm, lagging
[02:47] <ion_> The noise-to-signal ratio of the comments in the bug report about flashplugin-nonfree is steadily approaching infinity. :-)
[02:48] <bkudria> persia: ok, looks like i did everything correctly.  thanks for patiently answering my questions
[02:48] <LaserJock> persia: I was wondering if it was gonna be a 20^i
[02:48] <persia> ion_: That's expected.  Any ideas on how to fix it cleanly?
[02:48] <pochu> How many packages does universe/multiverse have?
[02:48] <ion_> I’m not familiar enough with the problem with Konqueror.
[02:48] <persia> LaserJock: That's likely more accurate given the nature of Hobbsee
[02:49] <persia> pochu: About 13,000
[02:49] <pochu> ty
[02:49] <persia> pochu: For accuracy, check Packages.gz
[02:49] <Hobbsee> persia: heh
[02:50] <ion_> Perhaps Launchpad should make it possible to vote comments as signal or noise, and with enough noise votes, a comment would be hidden by default. :-)
[02:51] <persia> ion_: Do you believe there are enough triagers to make that a useful extra part of their work?
[02:51] <ion_> Just a random braindumplet, with a smiley to indicate that it’s not a very serious idea.
[02:52] <LaserJock> pochu: Hardy source Universe+Main is 13693
[02:52] <LaserJock> man oh man there are a lot of people subscribed to that bug
[02:53] <persia> Now that gaphor works again, I think that gets the prize for most duplicated bug.
[02:54] <eddyMul> persia: can you point me to a package which has a get-orig-source target using uscan? I want to learn how to handle uscan's non-zero exit code
[02:56] <persia> eddyMul: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/mscore-0801022000/mscore-0.8.0+dfsg/debian/rules (and please ask questions generally: I don't always have the best or fastest answer)
[02:57] <pochu> vorian: there you have :)
[02:57] <persia> Note that I don't really like the duplicated get-orig-source: rule definition for mscore, but it does work.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#head-4bb01b3c07548aaf98e85ac7eb7983e632f8eb38 may also be useful.
[02:58] <dcordero> how many time have i wait since i sent a package to revu, until i can see the package? i sent it but i cant see it con revu website
[02:58] <eddyMul> persia: thanks
[02:58] <LaserJock> persia: I haven't read all of the flash bugs, but it seemed to me like a package with new md5sums would at least get a lot of people going
[02:58] <persia> dcordero: Usually not more than 10-15 minutes.  If you still don't see it, ask here, and include the package name.
[02:58] <bkudria> persia: hmm, you think updating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue is ok, even with the warning at the top of the page?
[02:59] <dcordero> persia, ok thanks
[02:59] <persia> LaserJock: Yes, but it makes konqueror segfault :(
[02:59] <dcordero> i'll wait for a long time
[02:59] <LaserJock> segfault? I thought it was just flash not working
[02:59] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:59] <persia> bkudria: I know that is the official current policy.  The URL will change, but has not yet done so.
[02:59] <persia> LaserJock: Well, it only segfaults when visiting a page with flash.  Personally, gnash works well enough for me.
[03:00] <vorian> thanks again pochu :)
[03:01] <pochu> vorian: you and ScottK did most of the work, no need to thanks me ;)
[03:01] <vorian> lol
[03:03] <pochu> dcordero: your package is there now
[03:03] <pochu> erlang-doc-html I guess
[03:03] <dcordero> pochu, thank, yep, that is it ;)
[03:04] <persia> dcordero: That doesn't really want to be on REVU though :(
[03:05] <dcordero> i read that all new package have to do revu system
[03:06] <persia> dcordero: new packages.  Updated packages (including upstream updates) don't go through REVU.  Check "Preparing New Revisions" in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[03:07] <dcordero> ups
[03:07] <persia> Just for extra clarity, a "NEW" package is one not currently available in the Ubuntu repositories.
[03:07] <persia> We use REVU to make sure that at least two MOTUs have reviewed it and can't find any issues to reduce the number of bugs found in these packages.  For updates, it only takes a sponsor confirming the update is good.
[03:08] <dcordero> and whre is sent updates?
[03:09] <persia> dcordero: In a bug.  See the wiki page referenced above
[03:09] <dcordero> i think that i have to read all the contributing again
[03:19] <mcisbackuk> Evening all.
[03:20] <jscinoz> persia
[03:20] <jscinoz> im stumped for what to do now on the urbanterror package
[03:21] <mcisbackuk> Can someone give me a little bit of guidance with bug #186183. I'm trying to package it, the debuild -S -sa went find, changelog is chaged to reflect new version, but I'm getting build-stamp errors in debian/rules, and I'm not sure what to do
[03:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186183 in drqueue "Update drqueue to version 0.64.3" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186183
[03:22] <persia> mcisbackuk: What sort of errors?
[03:22] <mcisbackuk> sorry......i ran pbuilder on the dsc file
[03:22] <mcisbackuk> ermmm wheres that paste bin thing?
[03:23] <mcisbackuk> ill paste output
[03:23] <dcordero> i dont understand, my mind is crazy, for send a bug to Ubuntu Sponsors for universe i have to belong to Ubuntu Sponsors for universe group. And for belong Ubuntu Sponsors for universe i have to send a bug, I dont understand
[03:23] <pochu> !paste | mcisbackuk
[03:23] <ubotu> mcisbackuk: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[03:23] <Hobbsee> dcordero: you can subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to a bug
[03:24] <mcisbackuk> add the bug, and subscribe them
[03:24] <persia> dcordero: Why do you need to belong to that group?  Just subscribe the team.  If you can't, that's an unacceptable regression in LP, and it will be fixed.
[03:24] <mcisbackuk> thanks pochu
[03:24] <Hobbsee> persia: it's probably just the official new way to use LP :P
[03:26] <mcisbackuk> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53623/ thats what I'm getting during pbuilder
[03:28] <persia> Hobbsee: I am prepared to be very angry if bug #58410 gets closed before there is a sane solution in place for bug #179857
[03:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 58410 in malone ""Subscribe Someone Else" should be restricted to drivers of relevant software" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58410
[03:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 179857 in malone "Package sponsorships involve awkward bugtracker machinations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179857
[03:29] <mcisbackuk> lol
[03:30] <mcisbackuk> Can someone have a quick look for me please at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53623/ - it's what I'm getting when using pbuilder, is this safe, or is there a problem with the rules file, and if so, how do I go about it?
[03:31] <Hobbsee> persia: it looks lost
[03:31] <persia> Hobbsee: What?  Non-members really can't subscribe?
[03:31] <persia> mcisbackuk: Looks to me like ./configure isn't being called
[03:32] <Hobbsee> persia: as in, it looks like no one's talking on it, so it won't get done for ages
[03:32] <tuxmaniac> h0la all! Good morning
[03:32] <persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  Yes.  I'd be perfectly happy for 58410 to be forgotten forever :)
[03:33] <mcisbackuk> persia: There is no configure file, just a makefile
[03:34] <mcisbackuk> correction : not even a make file
[03:34] <persia> mcisbackuk: OK.  pbuilder can't find it in /tmp/buildd/drqueue-0.64.3
[03:34] <persia> mcisbackuk: If there is no makefile, perhaps you don't want to call make?
[03:35] <mcisbackuk> persia: ok.....but then will the source still get built, cuz I sure as hell dont know that much about coding lol
[03:35] <dcordero> ok, it's that ok? -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/erlang-doc-html/+bug/70745
[03:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 70745 in erlang-doc-html "erlang-doc-html conflicts with other erlang packages" [Low,Confirmed]
[03:35] <dcordero> ubotu, what
[03:35] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about what - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[03:35] <dcordero> haha bot
[03:36] <persia> mcisbackuk: I have no idea.  Most upstreams provide instructions on how to build the package with the package.
[03:37] <mcisbackuk> persia: and then I assume its just a case of copying the instructions into a new makefile and then calling it in the rules file?? Is that right?
[03:37] <persia> dcordero: Looks well formed and subscribed to the right team.
[03:37] <dcordero> persia, ok, so, enought for today. Thanks, i'm going to bed
[03:38] <persia> mcisbackuk: debian/rules build should include whatever steps are required to build the package according to the upstream directions.  While this is often as simple as `make`, it may differ for different upstreams.
[03:38] <mcisbackuk> persia: I see...OK I'll try fiddling with that then
[03:46] <tuxmaniac> Hi. please can anyone throw more light on this lintian warning I get. "W: alliance: script-with-language-extension usr/bin/dreal.sh"
[03:48] <LaserJock> I think that's talking about the .sh
[03:48] <LaserJock> that means the user would have to type "dreal.sh" to run it rather than "dreal"
[03:48] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock, yeah. But what is the recommeneded extension?
[03:48] <tuxmaniac> aah ok
[03:48] <LaserJock> none at all
[03:49] <tuxmaniac> how do I resolve this? I have 5 such warnings
[03:49] <LaserJock> the script should have a shebang and no extention is needed
[03:49] <tuxmaniac> ok
[03:50] <LaserJock> I'm guessing mv'ing the files in debian/rules would suffice
[03:51] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock, can I pm for some OT stuff?
[03:52] <LaserJock> sure
[03:54] <mcisbackuk> Every time I run debuild -S -sa, I get gpg skipped and gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: secret key not available, yet i have edited the .bashrc and put export GPGKEY=XXX and exported DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL, how come?
[03:54] <persia> mcisbackuk: The identity on your GPG key doesn't match your changelog entry
[03:55] <mcisbackuk> persia: But I put EXACTLY the same info in...
[03:55] <persia> mcisbackuk: What's your LP page?
[03:55] <mcisbackuk> I'm mcisbackuk on LP but i havent got a page
[03:56] <persia> mcisbackuk: Yes you do :)  https://launchpad.net/~mcisbackuk.
[03:56] <mcisbackuk> oops lol
[03:56] <persia> Anyway, you're GPG key isn't registered, so I can't check that against your changelog :(
[03:56] <persia> s/you're/your/
[03:57] <mcisbackuk> How do i register it? update OpenPGP keys?
[03:57] <persia> mcisbackuk: Exactly.
[04:00] <mcisbackuk> I can't register, I can't decrypt the email as i use hotmail
[04:01] <persia> mcisbackuk: Does hotmail not let you download the raw message?
[04:01] <mcisbackuk> Nope, although I could copy the -----begin pgp----- to end and save in a file
[04:03] <mcisbackuk> But if I do that, how do I decrypt it with my key?
[04:03] <tuxmaniac> grrr. alliance folks have miserable manpages ;-) I am beginning to hate them
[04:03] <tuxmaniac> too many lintian warnings.
[04:05] <persia> mcisbackuk: man gpg should tell you the right option (I forget offhand).
[04:07] <mcisbackuk> persia: Got it! :)
[04:08] <mcisbackuk> persia: Damn I think I just seen the problem....if I happened to have stupidly put a comment when I was creating the key like "GPG Key" would that have to go in the changelog too so it could sign it??
[04:08] <persia> jscinoz: After looking in a bit more detail, I don't have any good suggestions.  It looks like there is an incompatible fork of libjpeg62.  Please hit upstream with a stick, and ask sistpoty to unreject (as it is "absolutely needed").
[04:08] <persia> mcisbackuk: Yes.  Exactly.
[04:09] <mcisbackuk> persia: Damn I'm stupid sometimes, sorry about that lol
[04:13] <jscinoz> i like the stick comment :) i'll do that :P
[04:15] <jscinoz> ugh revu is being screwy
[04:15] <jscinoz> logged in on mainpage, but if i go to package pages im not logged in >_<
[04:17] <persia> jscinoz: The cookie timeout is based on when you logged in, not when you last visited a page.  Reload the main page to log in again.
[04:17] <jscinoz> tried that >_<
[04:18] <jscinoz> prob just need a restart of firefox or somethign along thoes lines, i'll do it in a bit
[04:19]  * persia requests someone familiar with python exception handling to critique http://paste.ubuntu.com/3930/
[04:43] <persia> Hobbsee: If you're around, could you please delete /srv/uploads/dcut.Emmet_Hikory__persia_ubuntu_com_.1201407915.25411.commands
[04:52] <Hobbsee> persia: please reping
[04:52] <persia> Hobbsee: Please delete /srv/uploads/dcut.Emmet_Hikory__persia_ubuntu_com_.1201407915.25411.commands
[04:53] <persia> I was testing a fix to make those not happen anymore :)
[04:59] <Hobbsee> persia: done
[04:59] <persia> Hobbsee: Thank you.
[04:59] <Hobbsee> no problem
[05:05] <Hobbsee> persia: revu looks broken
[05:06]  * persia looks, and wants more context
[05:06] <Hobbsee> persia: http://pastebin.ca/874271
[05:07] <Hobbsee> persia: oh wait.  there never was an orig tarball.  nevermind.
[05:07] <persia> Hobbsee: And console-freecell was due to the key not being in the keyring the first time (now fixed).
[05:07] <Hobbsee> right
[05:19]  * joejaxx wishes DeXtop GUI still existed :(
[05:21] <persia> joejaxx: Doesn't CDE work now?
[05:22] <joejaxx> cde is not available for linux anymore
[05:22] <joejaxx> i cannot even buy it
[05:22] <joejaxx> which fails
[05:22] <LucidFox> ewww, stop poking that corpse, it smells!
[05:23] <joejaxx> CDE is nice
[05:23] <joejaxx> i am so tempted to email the open group and request a special license for myself
[05:24] <joejaxx> since they {cannot,will\ not} open source it
[05:24] <LaserJock> oh for goodness sakes joejaxx, get with the 21st century ;-)
[05:24] <joejaxx> lol :P
[05:25] <LaserJock> it's like me using a sliderule ;-)
[05:25] <LaserJock> which I do on occasion just for fun
[05:25] <persia> joejaxx: Why do you want it?  Can't you get most of that with KDE or GNOME and a one of the less-popular app-launching tools?
[05:26] <joejaxx> i do not like them
[05:26] <joejaxx> kde started out as a cde clone
[05:27] <joejaxx> i have not used kde since 1.x
[05:27] <Nafallo> hmm
[05:27] <Nafallo> I don't think I would like CDE ;-)
[05:27] <joejaxx> xfce started out as a Cde clone as well
[05:27] <joejaxx> i do not like any of the "modern" de/wm's
[05:28] <persia> Hobbsee: For your reduced deletion pain, bug #186275 is now Fix Released.
[05:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186275 in dput "dcut shouldn't pretend to work for Ubuntu" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186275
[05:28] <joejaxx> they are bearable though
[05:28] <Hobbsee> persia: yay!  thansk!
[05:30] <ToyKeeper> I don't like gnome/kde either, but there are countless other options.  :)
[05:30] <joejaxx> like CDE :)
[05:31] <ToyKeeper> ... not too familiar with CDE's features.  I only used it briefly, a decade ago.
[05:31] <joejaxx> it is great :)
[05:32] <ToyKeeper> Sawfish is nice.  I mean, if none of the simpler WMs work.  It's nice being able to add features without recompiling or logging out.
[05:32] <LaserJock> I kinda go back and forth, I like gnome and kde quite a bit, but sometimes I just use openbox for simplicity
[05:33]  * persia cheers the power and simplicity of twm
[05:33] <ToyKeeper> ;P
[05:34]  * Hobbsee cheers at kde and gnome
[05:34] <LaserJock> persia: twm always looked kinda ugly to me
[05:34] <LaserJock> I like that openbox looks nice while being minimalistic
[05:34] <LaserJock> and is being actively developed
[05:34] <persia> LaserJock: You just need a high-enough DPI screen that it becomes a nice even gray.
[05:35] <LaserJock> haha
[05:35] <persia> (and yes, even when I use that interface, I tend to use fluxbox these days)
[05:35] <joejaxx> well that does it i am calling them up tomorrow :)
[05:35] <joejaxx> tomorrow being monday
[05:36] <ToyKeeper> fluxbox is nice.  I like its tabs so much I had to kludge something similar into sawfish.  :)
[05:36] <persia> But seriously, on the DPI point.  When I was a big twm user, I had 1280x1024 on a 15" screen (still have that screen around).  Now I'm lucky if I can find anything even 100 DPI.
[05:36] <joejaxx> ToyKeeper: lol
[05:37] <ToyKeeper> Heh, it's not too hard to find high-dpi screens.  I'm on a 1280x800 12" screen right now.
[05:37] <ToyKeeper> ~124dpi, I think
[05:38] <persia> ToyKeeper: That's surely integrated in a larger chunk of electronics, and won't be useful in 10 years.
[05:38] <ToyKeeper> Perhaps.  I've got some pretty old notebooks which are still useful.
[05:38] <ToyKeeper> Once they get old, it seems size is all that matters.  :)
[05:39] <LaserJock> my ClassmatePC is 7" 800x480
[05:39] <joejaxx> LaserJock: :D
[05:40]  * persia has a 3.7" 640x480, but that's beside the point.  None of these are desktop monitors.
[05:41] <LaserJock> my classmate is not a desktop, but it is a laptop which sort of counts, no?
[05:42] <ToyKeeper> Hmm, lessee...  94dpi on my desktop monitor.  I fail.
[05:42] <joejaxx> ToyKeeper: lol
[05:47] <ToyKeeper> I wonder what the chances are of seeing openvz kernel packages in hardy.
[05:48] <joejaxx> :)
[05:48] <joejaxx> i believe we are past the point for any kernel flavour inclusions
[05:49] <joejaxx> any new*
[05:50] <ToyKeeper> I'm not really expecting any virtualization stuff until at least 8.10.
[05:50] <ToyKeeper> Even a third party package source would help, though.  :)
[05:50] <joejaxx> :)
[05:50] <RAOF> What's different with openvz over, say, Xen or kvm?
[05:50] <joejaxx> openvz is shared kernel
[05:51] <ToyKeeper> Basically.  Openvz and linux-vserver implement containers instead of virtual machines.
[05:51] <joejaxx> yeap
[05:52] <ToyKeeper> A lot of container stuff is getting mainlined, though.  Expect to see a lot more of it in 2.6.25 and 2.6.26.
[05:52] <ToyKeeper> It's helpful for splitting a large, multi-purpose server into smaller, easy-to-maintain chunks.
[05:52] <joejaxx> :)
[05:54] <ToyKeeper> So, less flexible than xen/kvm, but a lot faster.  There is a 4X-6X speed difference.
[06:05] <RAOF> Does anyone from .au want to guess how much Harvey Norman sells 1.5 metre DVI->HDMI cables for?
[06:06] <persia> RAOF: I'm not in AU, but can I play?  ($135)
[06:09] <joejaxx> persia: :P
[06:12] <Hobbsee> RAOF: shared kernel, and shared ram
[06:12] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: Hi :D
[06:12] <Hobbsee> heya joejaxx!
[06:14] <joejaxx> :D
[06:20] <ToyKeeper> Oh yeah, shared RAM is kind of important too.  :0
[06:20] <ToyKeeper> :) even
[06:20] <Hobbsee> RAOF: why?
[06:22] <ToyKeeper> HDMI cables are horrible and expensive ...  designed at least 10 miles from the nearest RF signal engineer.  :)
[06:23] <persia> ToyKeeper: Make a better one
[06:23] <tritium> Why should RF engineers design them?
[06:23] <ToyKeeper> Heh, I'm not even remotely qualified.  :)
[06:23] <persia> tritium: They are designed to carry RF, no?
[06:23] <LaserJock> tritium!
[06:23] <tritium> persia: no
[06:23] <tritium> LaserJock: Hey :)
[06:24]  * persia reads the HDMI spec
[06:24] <ToyKeeper> There's a reason why HDMI cables don't come in lengths of, say, 25m...  yet coax works fine over much longer distances.
[06:25]  * persia gets annoyed at the HDMI website, and reads open sources instead
[06:25] <joejaxx> persia: wikipedia :D
[06:25] <ToyKeeper> persia: It's really not that interesting...  probably not worth the effort.
[06:26] <persia> tritium: HDMI carries an electrical signal path.  Difference between this and RF is semantics.
[06:27] <tritium> persia: important semantics, however.  Not all electrical signals are radio frequency.
[06:27] <persia> tritium: That's not what I learned at uni.
[06:28] <tritium> In fact, most circuits are _not_ designed for RF.  RF layout is quite a unique art.
[06:29] <tritium> persia: the simplest counter-example would be DC.
[06:29] <ToyKeeper> HDMI cables are not circuits.  They're just designed as if the circuit approach works over long distances.  :)
[06:29] <persia> Unless you mean a specific limited section of spectrum by "radio frequency".  The lack of attention paid the the frequency domain was the topic of one of the lectures in a circuits class, and we were told to pay special attention for digital signals.
[06:30] <tritium> persia: I do mean that, but that's because I'm an E.E., and I pay attention to those kind of things.
[06:30] <persia> tritium: OK.  Yes.  Continuous current DC, with all capacitors and inductors balanced, and not in a EM field of any other sort doesn't generate anything.  I've never seen such a circuit in real life.
[06:31] <persia> tritium: Ah.  OK.  My misdefinition of "radio frequency" then (and misuse of RF previously).
[06:31] <LaserJock> my laser creates a silly RF that's rather annoying. I have to isolate my oscilloscope or put it on another table
[06:31] <tritium> persia: eh, no worries :)
[06:32] <tritium> ToyKeeper: they form circuits with other electrical components.
[06:33] <persia> ToyKeeper: Also, circuits do work over long distances.  How close is your computer to a generator?
[06:33] <tritium> LaserJock: how's the dissertation?
[06:33] <tuxmaniac> is it absolutely necessary that _all_ lintian wrnigns have to get resolved? <- I know its a stupid question. But I feel some changes that I make to resolve this might/could break some other stuff.
[06:33] <ToyKeeper> persia: True, I was thinking of a different meaning for circuit.
[06:34] <persia> tuxmaniac: For NEW packages, almost always yes.  What warning is giving you trouble?
[06:34] <tritium> I think we all agree, it's just semantic differences :)
[06:36] <persia> tritium: Just out of curiosity, if RF is 3Hz-300GHz, and HDML is pumping at 10.2Gbit/s, what frequency does it use?
[06:36] <tuxmaniac> persia, most of the lintian warnings that I have are manpages related. and upstream has a few manpages only in french.
[06:37] <persia> tuxmaniac: OK.  Can they not be translated?
[06:37] <tuxmaniac> persia, I am writing a mail now. But I am afraid whether it shall be done before FF :-|
[06:38] <tuxmaniac> persia, I will try to get it translated myself in collaboration with French translator at office
[06:38] <persia> tuxmaniac: Understood.  Are these the one that your changes to resolve might break other things?
[06:39] <tuxmaniac> persia, some have invalid extensions it seems. instead of filename.gz some have filename.something.gz
[06:39] <tuxmaniac> persia, and I never know where they have included what. they use a lot of manpage includes
[06:39] <persia> tuxmaniac: I need a little more context.  Could you please pastebin your lintian output?
[06:40] <tuxmaniac> persia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53632/
[06:40] <tritium> persia: I'd have to look into the physical layer, to find out
[06:40] <tuxmaniac> i have removed 19,20,21 already
[06:41] <persia> tritium: Oh well.  I was hoping you knew offhand.  I'm not willing to pay enough to read the spec and find out :)
[06:41] <tuxmaniac> persia, also removed 1, 4, 6
[06:41] <tritium> persia: sorry, I don't.  If I can find out, I'll let you know.
[06:41] <tuxmaniac> build in progress
[06:44] <persia> tuxmaniac: check the manpage for 2&3.  I suspect it's not required for linux installations.  5&7 are likely typos.  8-11 need inspection of the source: something is odd there: maybe an encoding issue?  12-17 are violations of policy: the .sh must be stripped from the name (and you might have to adjust the files to expect that).
[06:45] <persia> For 18, check how the script is used.  It should be sourced by other executables, rather than run, and likely should have the initial !# line removed.
[06:45] <tuxmaniac> ok persia thanks for the quick comments. I shall look into them
[06:46] <persia> tuxmaniac: Good luck.  You've 3 hours and 15 minutes before REVU day :)
[06:46] <tuxmaniac> REVU Day!? After that no new packages are accepted?
[06:47] <persia> tuxmaniac: No, but getting it in before REVU Day increases the chances it will get reviewed this week.
[06:47] <tuxmaniac> persia, OMG.
[06:47]  * tuxmaniac switches to top gear
[06:49] <LaserJock> dang, I should get squeak fixed up soon
[06:49] <LaserJock> some of it's gonna have to go through NEW
[06:51] <persia> LaserJock: Best try to get it in soon then.  There's a lot of candidates on REVU, and people are busy.
[06:52] <LaserJock> I wasn't even thinking of putting them on REVU ...
[06:52]  * LaserJock has to get his brain into "policies" again
[06:53] <RAOF> Wow, I really managed to start that up :)
[06:53] <RAOF> persia: Higher.
[06:55] <persia> RAOF: Wow!  I was guessing about 10,000 yen + markup to ship to the bottom of the world.  I'm suddenly glad I'm not in the HDMI cable market :)
[06:55] <RAOF> In fact, you're off by a factor of >2
[06:56] <RAOF> Although this is not a reflection of the total market, just the Harvey Norman market.  Which is apparently populated entirely by audiophiles with huge disposable income.
[06:56] <persia> That's a lot of money.  18,000 yen for 1m here :(
[06:57]  * LaserJock pats the roll of coax sitting behind his TV
[06:57] <persia> No, that was just a bad brand.  Panasonic has a 1.5m for 5,000 (which, even with markup, shouldn't be more than $60)
[07:17] <LucidFox> persia> You're in Japan?
[07:18] <persia> LucidFox: That's what LP says
[07:19] <LaserJock> persia: you're so integrated in LP that it tells you where you live? :-)
[07:20] <persia> LaserJock: How else is one to keep track in this modern international society?
[07:21] <LucidFox> I'm interested in Japan. I'm currently studying Japanese.
[07:22] <Aloha> LucidFox, domo arrigato
[07:23] <persia> LucidFox: So you'll be coming to visit soon?
[07:25] <LaserJock> persia: facebook of course!
[07:25] <persia> LaserJock: The advantage of LP over facebook is that one doesn't have to manage freinds lists :p
[07:27] <LucidFox> persia> No
[07:27] <persia> Oh well.  Maybe later then...
[07:27] <LucidFox> I'm not in a sufficiently solid material position to :)
[07:28] <persia> LucidFox: Depends how you go.  Trans-Siberian isn't that expensive, and there's a ferry, but that turns a week vacation into a month-long journey.
[07:32] <LaserJock> persia: hmm, maybe I should file a bug for LP to get friend lists and status boards and ...
[07:32] <persia> LaserJock: Please no.  I've already retreated from several places infected by the social meme
[07:35] <minghua> LaserJock: Although I also think it's a horrible idea, I am curious what do you think adding a friend list to LP can do?
[07:35] <minghua> I can watch the bugs my friends report?
[07:35] <LaserJock> and see who's online and leave messages
[07:36] <LaserJock> "yo, fix this bug you nut"
[07:36] <LaserJock> "you seriously didn't just merge that? ;p"
[07:37] <LaserJock> "OMG OMG isn't this the coolest package eva!?!?!"
[07:38]  * persia thought that was why we used IRC
[07:39] <LaserJock> alright, maybe it wasn't the best idea
[07:39] <LaserJock> ;-)
[07:39] <LaserJock> I'm heading to bed
[07:39] <minghua> Good night LaserJock.
[07:40] <warp10> Heya all
[07:48] <tuxmaniac> persia, those encoding issues you pointed out are those in lines where there are stuff like \351 \352 etc. How do I find out which character is that and what is missing?
[07:48] <tuxmaniac> persia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53632/ again for reference.
[07:53] <persia> tuxmaniac: I suggest looking for a latin1 encoding reference, as that seems to be the most common non-unicode encoding used in europe.
[07:53] <persia> Extra points for asking questions generally or waiting for the person you pinged to get back to you.
[08:23] <persia> shibata: re: termlauncher-applet: It is acceptable for upstream to have those extra files in their tarball.  You probably want to delete them in debian/rules clean:
[08:32] <shibata> persia: Should write in clean rule "rm -rf src/*.pyc autom4te*" ?
[08:32] <persia> shibata: To me, that seems the right method to use.
[08:35] <shibata> persia: thank you. I will do from now.
[08:36] <persia> shibata: Thank you.  I will review it again thereafter.
[08:46] <Gunirus> afk
[08:51] <persia> shibata: Also, I wonder if bbs2chreader or さいたま皮 would be good to include, or if only JD is enough.  I don't think many here would be prepared to package them, but maybe not having a dependency on GTK would be nice.
[09:03] <shibata> persia: sorry, I failed to understand what you meant. Is it which you should use?
[09:04] <persia> shibata: I use jd, but I thought that another one might be good for KDE users, as JD depends on GTK.
[09:08] <shibata> persia: if KDE users generally use Firefox, then bbs2chreader+saitama skin is good.
[09:09] <shibata> persia: If you want standalone 2ch reader for KDE users, how about kita?
[09:09] <persia> shibata: Standalone is even better.  I didn't know about kita.  Maybe that is a better choice?
[09:11] <minghua> Hmm, 2ch reader.
[09:11] <persia> minghua: Much better than the web interface (which is painful)
[09:11] <minghua> persia: I agree web-interface BBS is painful.
[09:12] <shibata> persia: I have not use Kita, but it is seemed to use Qt libraly.
[09:14] <persia> shibata: Looking at http://kita.sourceforge.jp/, it looks to me like it uses more KDE than just QT, but the license looks free enough.
[09:17] <jeromeg> hello
[09:18] <jeromeg> i wonder what is the difference between "dh_scrollkeeper -i" and "dh_scrollkeeper" in debian/rules
[09:18] <jeromeg> can anyone explain this to me ?
[09:21] <shibata> persia: There are kita package in Japanese local repository. If it is necessary, do I hear to packager whether upload to official repository?
[09:24] <persia> shibata: If you don't mind.  I think it would be better to get things into the official repository, rather than the local repository.  While I'm not sure about the licensing on the fonts, and UTF-8 is still unpopular here, most of the other applications seem like good candidates.
[09:25] <persia> jeromeg: -i acts only on arch:all (similarly, -a acts only on arch:something)
[09:26] <jeromeg> persia: ok thanks
[09:26] <persia> jeromeg: man debhelper :)
[09:26] <jeromeg> persia: ok i'll have a look
[09:30] <shibata> persia: I found one more alternative. It is "V2C", Java base browser. http://v2c.s50.xrea.com/
[09:31] <persia> shibata: That upstream seems much more active as well.  I wonder if it works with icedtea
[09:44] <shibata> persia: V2C seems to work somehow on icedtea, but it is not yet tested enough, there are some problems.
[09:45]  * RAOF is subdued by his rampaging mythtv non-setup.
[09:45] <persia> shibata: Beyond those related to the trouble I'm having getting icedtea installed locally? :)
[09:48]  * persia is now annoyed.  command-not-found encourages installation of icedtea-java7-bin to get `java`, but installing this package doesn't actually succeed in providing `java`.
[09:51] <persia> Right.  $JAVA_HOME.  Anyway, v2c coredumps for me :(
[09:59] <shibata> persia: According to V2C thread in 2ch, there are report to good for Fedora 8+Icedtea+V2C(non JRE).
[09:59]  * persia looks
[10:00] <shibata> persia: Sorry, my reply is too late. I'm not so good to use English.
[10:01] <persia> 柴田：あなたの英語が僕の日本語より良いです。
[10:01] <shibata> persia: No. 580 in "Java+Swingによる2chブラウザ V2C_T8" thread.
[10:04] <shibata> persia: thank you. and I uploaded termlauncher-applet into revu.
[10:18]  * persia is happy to see reports of v2c working on gutsy, and wonders if anyone feels like packaging it
[10:18] <rulus> Since it's REVU day, I'll ask again to review my package please :) It's at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gtkvd Thanks!
[10:22]  * persia syncs the keyring
[10:26] <persia> rulus: commented
[10:26] <shibata> persia: If there is time, I hope I will challenge it. But I'm not confident to make it until last REVU Day.
[10:27] <persia> shibata: Understood.  Good luck.
[10:28] <rulus> persia: thanks, I'll fix it asap :)
[10:30] <shibata> persia: Thank you.
[10:31] <shibata> By the way, I have a question. I'm creating package which should include in multiverse. Can I upload it to revu?
[10:35] <geser> shibata: yes
[10:36] <geser> if it's redistributable
[10:37] <shibata> geser: According to license, "redistribution" is OK, "altered" is NG. Probably, "altered" mean "modify".
[10:40] <persia> shibata: termlauncher commented
[10:40] <persia> shibata: Which package?  (which upstream?)
[10:42] <shibata> persia: Thank you for comment, and package is poppler-data
[10:42] <shibata> http://poppler.freedesktop.org/
[10:43] <minghua> I think we have poppler-data?
[10:44] <persia> shibata: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poppler.  You probably want to ask on #ubuntu-desktop about poppler-data
[10:45] <minghua> Hmm, apparently not.
[10:45] <shibata> minghua: Really? I can not find in repository.
[10:45] <minghua> There is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=453172 though.
[10:45] <ubotu> Debian bug 453172 in wnpp "RFP: poppler-data -- Encoding data for the poppler PDF rendering library" [Wishlist,Open]
[10:45] <persia> Urgh.  Right.  So CJK+Cyrillic is broken :(  Still best to ask in #ubuntu-desktop
[10:46] <pochu> shibata: RFP means request for package. You might want to own it
[10:46] <persia> shibata: Based on my reading of poppler-data COPYING, it should be safe for multiverse.
[10:46] <hellboy195> Hey folks, Debian Changelog site down?
[10:46] <persia> hellboy195: Which site?
[10:47] <hellboy195> persia: packages.debian.org/changelogs  <-- I can't connect
[10:48] <persia> hellboy195: Doesn't work for me either.  Might want to look around on OFTC to see if there is any news.
[10:49] <wallyweek> g'morning all
[10:49] <hellboy195> persia: sry, whats OFTC?
[10:49] <geser> hellboy195: another IRC network
[10:50] <hellboy195> geser: ah. haven't heard about it yet ^^
[10:50] <persia> hellboy195: The IRC network used by Debian.  Try irc.debian.org if you need a name and don't want to track one down.
[10:50] <geser> hellboy195: http://www.oftc.net
[10:50] <hellboy195> thx thx
[10:50] <wallyweek> with latest fixes sdlmame should only need advocation... can anyone review it, please? It's now nearly 1 year it waits uploading! :( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sdlmame
[10:50] <wallyweek> thanks
[10:51] <minghua> It would be nice to have poppler-data, I sometimes need it as well.
[10:55] <theseinfeld> Hi ll
[10:55] <theseinfeld> A very strange thing happen to my upload
[10:55] <theseinfeld> I uploaded last package on 23rd of January and it was 1ubuntu7 version
[10:55] <theseinfeld> to see today that somebody uploaded on revu the 1ubuntu3
[10:55] <theseinfeld> how the hell was that possible to superseed the 7 version?
[10:55] <persia> theseinfeld: REVU doesn't care about versions
[10:56] <theseinfeld> ok
[10:56] <theseinfeld> but how did it get uploaded then?
[10:56] <theseinfeld> I was not even connected
[10:56] <theseinfeld> ?
[10:56] <persia> theseinfeld: Someone used dput.  Which package?
[10:56] <theseinfeld> libdc1394-22
[10:57] <theseinfeld> when you use dput don't you need the gpg key?
[10:57] <theseinfeld> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libdc1394-22&upid=1530
[10:58] <wallyweek> theseinfeld: no, you don't, AFAIK you only need to sign source package
[10:59] <theseinfeld> is it a rogue upload then?
[10:59] <theseinfeld> how should I fix it?
[10:59] <persia> theseinfeld: You just need a GPG key on the keyring.  Doesn't have to match the uploader name, if someone uses the sponsor flag for debuild/dpkg-buildpackage
[10:59] <wallyweek> theseinfeld: upload it again
[10:59] <theseinfeld> ok
[10:59] <persia> theseinfeld: Upload a new one.  Also, please collapse your changelog.  It should be -0ubuntu1 when it enters the archive.
[11:00] <theseinfeld> persia: roger that
[11:00] <theseinfeld> incoming package :)
[11:00] <wallyweek> persia: have you got some time to look at sdlmame, please? :D
[11:01] <persia> wallyweek: Not tonight.  Maybe tomorrow.
[11:01] <rulus> persia and others: I updated gtkvd: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gtkvd :)
[11:03] <wallyweek> persia: ok
[11:04] <shibata> minghua and persia: Well, poppler-data package is going to be made in Debian anyone. And I should wait to upload and to sync Ubuntu. Is it OK?
[11:05] <persia> shibata: Depends on timing.  FeatureFreeze is 14th February.  If it goes to Debian fast enough, that works.  If there may be delays, maybe it would be good to bring to Ubuntu sooner.
[11:05] <minghua> shibata: That's usually the preferred way.  You can always get involved in the Debian packaging effort.
[11:10] <minghua> "Lotus Notes 8.5 Will Support Ubuntu 7.0"  http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/applications/enterprise/news/index.cfm?newsid=7193&print
[11:10]  * minghua wonders what version they meant.
[11:11]  * wallyweek wanders what they mean with "will support"
[11:12] <persia> Probably 7.04, as 7.10 is usually incorrectly written as "7.1".  Anyway, based on Mr. Murphy's quotes, I expect it should work fine for 8.04 as well.
[11:13] <wallyweek> I never heard about an app supporting an os... ;)
[11:13] <persia> wallyweek: Really?  I remember Escape Velocity finally supporting Windows being huge news.
[11:15] <hellboy195> persia: working again. nobody knows why ^^
[11:16] <wallyweek> persia: maybe it's simply a matter of terms, but I would expect to hear ubuntu will support lotus notes protocols/data formats
[11:17] <smarter> hi all
[11:17] <persia> wallyweek: Really?  That's not traditionally an OS vendor's job.  Typically, the application firm writes something to be cross-platform, and has to readjust for each new revision from the OS vendor.  This team (MOTU) tries to help with that some, but...
[11:17] <smarter> I've some packages ready for review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=kde4-style-bespin and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=extremetuxracer
[11:18] <persia> smarter: Don't use dcut.  It just doesn't work for Ubuntu.
[11:19] <smarter> persia: I don't use dcut
[11:21] <Ng> wallyweek: loads of "enterprise" apps support (ie certify to be compatible with) OSes
[11:22] <persia> Commercial games also tend to be public about which OS they support, as there are often lots of quirks that break in other environments.
[11:23] <wallyweek> persia, ng: ok, so "will support" should be read "will be available for" ;)
[11:24] <persia> wallyweek: Actually, they probably support it as well, meaning you can pay IBM to help you if you have problems with Notes on Ubuntu.
[11:25] <persia> (whereas, I doubt IBM would take your money if you had problems with Notes on QNX)
[11:25] <wallyweek> persia: do you mean lotus notes is already available for linux? :o
[11:26] <persia> wallyweek: Google can answer your question better than I
[11:26] <theseinfeld> persia: done. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libdc1394-22
[11:27] <persia> theseinfeld: Great.  Now it's ready for review :)
[11:27] <LucidFox> Oh, so REVU day has begun?
[11:27] <wallyweek> persia: right... googling... done! yes, it is since rel. 7 :o
[11:27] <theseinfeld> persia: yeah... find a reviewer if you can :)
[11:28] <LucidFox> I would like to pimp http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libgee - it's not my package, but I'm interested in it
[11:28]  * wallyweek is surprised to know lotus notes was already available for linux
[11:28] <persia> LucidFox: Are you still happy with the latest upload?
[11:28] <theseinfeld> wallyweek i think it was for quite some time. since IBM decided to go OSS
[11:29] <theseinfeld> DaveMorris hi!
[11:29] <DaveMorris> hi
[11:30] <LucidFox> persia> holy... I didn't notice how huge the diff was, I thought he just corrected the debian/docs issue
[11:31] <LucidFox> although wait, it's a new upstream release... that explains why it's huge
[11:31] <persia> LucidFox: This is why we ignore previous advocations for the same package when we get a new revision.  Please review again, and add your support if it is good.
[11:31] <persia> For a new upstream, if may be worth downloading both versions and playing with interdiff -p1
[11:32]  * LucidFox downloads
[11:33] <persia> jdong: clutch commented
[11:38] <LucidFox> persia> he migrated to CDBS, that changes things and I've posted a new objection
[11:38] <persia> LucidFox: OK.  I'll ack.
[11:39] <vemon> persia, hi. it seems that the .desktop file is not installed automatically even if the gnome.mk is included in rules
[11:39] <vemon> i tried to put it to debian/ also
[11:40] <LucidFox> vemon> desktop files in debian/ are not automatically installed
[11:40] <vemon> then i dl'd source of vkeybd which seems to have a debian/install -file that lists the vkeybd.desktop to be installed in /usr/share/applications/
[11:40] <vemon> so is this the right way to do it?
[11:41] <vemon> or does an "automatic" way exist?
[11:41] <LucidFox> not at the moment
[11:41] <vemon> ok. thanks!
[11:41] <LucidFox> you will need to explicitly install desktop files in debian/ with dh_install or cp
[11:42] <persia> s/cp/install/
[11:43] <LucidFox> well, I've never seen plain install used in debian/rules, although I have seen dh_install with arguments
[11:43] <persia> If you look in some of the older packages, you'll see it.  install is preferred over cp as it allows one to set the permissions properly.
[11:43] <LucidFox> Ah.
[11:43] <persia> (or the updated packages by those who dislike debhelper)
[11:46] <LucidFox> I don't like maintainers who prefer to do things their own way
[11:47] <persia> LucidFox: I actually use install whenever I need to change a filename, as dh_install doesn't support that.
[11:48] <man-di> install has another nice feature, it can create the target directory for you if needed
[11:49] <LucidFox> true
[11:49] <persia> I generally use dh_installdirs for that, but it can be handy
[11:49] <persia> vemon: lashwrap commented
[11:49] <LucidFox> for example, the lsb_release patch for psi - it was a dpatch in Ubuntu, but when I advocated it to the Debian maintainer, he said he "didn't like dpatch" and lumped it into the diff.gz with some other changes already there
[11:50] <vemon> persia, thx! i have a new upstream version though :)
[11:50] <man-di> persia: I normally use dh_installdirs too, but I dont like to introduce it when I only need one small dir
[11:50] <persia> LucidFox: In that case I agree with the Debian maintainer.  He probably tracks changes in a VCS, and dpatch just makes merging harder.  Mind you, dpatch is useful for packages not maintained in VCS (or with only debian/ maintained in VCS)
[11:50] <persia> man-di: Makes sense.
[11:52] <persia> man-di: On another note, how did libxml-commons-resover1.1-java come to be 1.2?  Is that just an annoying historical naming issue?
[11:52] <LucidFox> probably the same way how libmono-addins0.2-cil is version 0.3 in Hardy :)
[11:53] <man-di> the package was libxml-commons-resover-java 1.0... originally, then 1.1 came out and it was API incompatbile, 1.2 was API compatibale to 1.1...
[11:53] <persia> Right.  Why do we put versions in package names again?
[11:53] <man-di> persia: for some time we had libxml-commons-resolver-java AND libxml-commons-resolver1.1-java
[11:53] <persia> man-di: That makes sense.  Thanks.  I'll be pulling it soon, possibly with a patch.  Do you happen to be familiar with the internals?
[11:54] <man-di> persia: partly
[11:55] <persia> man-di: I've been asked to apply http://paste.ubuntu.com/3934/.  I'm waiting on some explanation about the last chunk from the author, but wondered if you had any reservations.
[11:57] <man-di> persia: I have seen your discussion with slytherin about this, I would be interested in the explanation for the last chunk too.
[11:57] <persia> man-di: You agree then that the first two seem reasonable?
[11:58] <man-di> I wonder where getPublicIDs() gets used
[11:58] <man-di> the rest seems fine
[11:59] <persia> man-di: Additional introspection to support NetBeans.  I'm not at all sure why they felt it belonged in this library.
[11:59] <man-di> no objections, it should not hurt at least
[11:59] <persia> On the other hand, I'm not sure how adding a function would break anything, and I have complained about them not pushing changes back to upstream properly.
[12:00] <tuxmaniac> persia, for that "script-has-language-extension" lintian warning, the line     mv $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin/dreal.sh $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin/dreal in debian/rules enough?
[12:00] <man-di> persia: unfortunately its common for java developers to take some 3rd party library, change it and ship it
[12:00] <persia> man-di: Thanks for the confirmation.  I'll pass the explanation for the third chunk and the patch to the BTS if they can defend it sensibly.
[12:00] <persia> tuxmaniac: Yes,
[12:00] <tuxmaniac> its saying no such file found! Any clues why.
[12:00] <man-di> persia: Thanks for your work, its really appreciated
[12:01] <persia> man-di: Unfortunately true.  All we can do is try to educate them as to the advantages of non-duplication of code.
[12:02] <persia> man-di: No.  Thank YOU.  This wouldn't even be possible without your efforts to get Java in shape, and all your previous work with the same people to get the rest of the libraries in.
[12:02] <man-di> persia: thank you too *g*
[12:03] <tuxmaniac> persia, do I remove the $(destdir) directive and check?
[12:03] <persia> tuxmaniac: Is DESTDIR defined?  You might need $(CURDIR)/debian/...
[12:04] <DaveMorris> persia: any small packages which I could revu for you guys?
[12:05] <persia> DaveMorris: Feel free to comment on anything waiting for review on REVU.  Those that have not yet had any reviews are the ones needing the most attention.
[12:56] <jonnymind> Hello;
[12:56] <pochu> hey jonnymind
[12:56] <jonnymind> yo
[12:56] <jonnymind> I don't understand the last point of the comments at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=falconpl
[12:57] <pochu> I think it means whether the clean target removes debian/tmp
[12:57] <jonnymind> Can someone explain that to me? -- I copied that clean: section from the book
[12:58] <jonnymind> And it shouldnt?
[12:58] <pochu> jonnymind: basically, if "dpkg-buildpackage && fakeroot debian/rules clean && dpkg-buildpackage" works, you are done.
[12:58] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[12:59] <jonnymind> pochu: I use pbuilder, and everything builds fine...
[12:59] <pochu> jonnymind: it should AFAIK. But perhaps geser means that you don't need to say it, it will be done automagically
[12:59] <pochu> hey hey DarkSun88
[12:59] <jonnymind> Ok. So I just remove it.
[13:00] <pochu> and try the command above (build a package twice in a row)
[13:00] <jonnymind> Ok
[13:02] <smarter> IIRC dpkg-buildpackage already does debian/rules clean
[13:04] <geser> jonnymind: does your clean target also clean the package dirs below debian/?
[13:04] <jonnymind> No, only /tmp.
[13:05] <jonnymind> Is that the problem?
[13:05] <jonnymind> clean:
[13:05] <jonnymind> 	dh_testdir
[13:05] <jonnymind> 	rm -f build
[13:05] <jonnymind> 	rm -rf *~ debian/tmp debian/*~ debian/files* debian/substvar
[13:06] <man-di> jonnymind: you should really use dh_clean
[13:06] <jonnymind> man-di: thanks
[13:07] <jonnymind> clean:
[13:07] <jonnymind> 	dh_testdir
[13:07] <jonnymind> 	rm -f build
[13:07] <jonnymind> 	dh_clean
[13:07] <geser> jonnymind: after a build and calling the clean target your dir should like before (like the fresh unpacked source package)
[13:07] <jonnymind> man-di: like the above?
[13:08] <jonnymind> IC
[13:10] <jonnymind> In other words, making packages should be idempotent... I get the picture.
[13:14] <jonnymind> diff -r falbuild_ubuntu/falconpl-0.8.8/ falbuild_ubuntu_cp/falconpl-0.8.8/
[13:15] <jonnymind> this after a build and fakeroot debian/rules clean on the second dir.
[13:15] <jonnymind> So, yes, I would say that now they are idempotent. -- reuploading.
[13:17] <rexbron> Hey everyone! Would I be able to get a review of libopenfx? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libopenfx
[13:27] <dcordero> hi
[13:27] <dcordero> what is the difference between use pbuilder or debootstrap?
[13:28] <dcordero> This are 2 tools with exactly the same target, arent this?
[13:29] <smarter> pbuilder is used to automaticaly build a package in a clean environment
[13:30] <smarter> debootstrap is used to create a debian or ubuntu system where you can chroot in to test things for example
[13:30] <smarter> IIRC, pbuilder use debootstrap
[13:31] <tuxmaniac> hello. to avoid script-with-language-extension lintian warning. I added a line  mv $(CURDIR)/debian/alliance/usr/bin/dreal.sh $(CURDIR)/debian/alliance/usr/bin/dreal
[13:32] <tuxmaniac> but it keeps saying file not found.
[13:32] <dcordero> i see, so, pbuilder is a tool that keep a clean system using dbootstrap for build packages. And with debootstrap you can do all that you want in you new system
[13:33] <tuxmaniac> and I added them in install section of debian/rules
[13:33] <tuxmaniac> anything wrong?
[13:33] <tuxmaniac> i have been breaking my head with this thing for quite some time now
[13:34] <Lamego> dcordero, debootstrap is the tool to build a new debian system, it has nothing to do with what you plan to use that system for
[13:34] <dcordero> Lamego, ok, i understand now. Thanks
[13:35] <Lamego> dcordero, also I would recommend to talke a look at schroot/sbuild
[13:36] <tbutter> tuxmaniac: why not "mv $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin/dreal.sh $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin/dreal"?
[13:36] <dcordero> ok, i'll read about it, thanks again
[13:36] <tuxmaniac> tbutter, that doesnt work
[13:37] <tuxmaniac> tbutter, it also givees the same file not found error
[13:38] <tbutter> where did you put it in the install section? at the end?
[13:39] <tuxmaniac> tbutter, the last line of the install section is this
[13:39] <brinley> Hi, I've just uploaded a patch to fix a bug, is there anyone here who can review it?
[13:40] <tuxmaniac> tbutter, I have 5 such warnings and is really important that I get this fixed for my package to get reviewed soon
[13:40] <tuxmaniac> the debian.install file installs it in usr/bin/filename.sh only
[13:40] <tuxmaniac> tbutter, but the mv commands fails for some reason.
[13:41] <tbutter> tuxmaniac: wait a min, i am trying to build it
[13:41] <tuxmaniac> tbutter, its alliance on revu. just in case you build a wrong one. :-)
[13:45] <rexbron> Sorry to review spam again, but I made a large booboo that needed to be fixed :P http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openfx
[13:46] <rulus> Can anyone review gtkvd? I think I fixed the comments raised earlier today, I'd really like it to be in Hardy :) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gtkvd Thanks!
[13:52] <Hobbsee> erk. something's broken ruby
[13:54] <Hobbsee> an autosync.
[13:55] <rexbron> Thats no fun
[13:55] <Hobbsee> so, we have ruby source, and ruby-defaults, apparently
[13:58] <tuxmaniac> tbutter, any clues yet?
[14:01] <Hobbsee> 8 packages to fix
[14:01] <tbutter> tuxmaniac: its still building...
[14:01] <tuxmaniac> hello Hobbsee
[14:02] <Hobbsee> hi tuxmaniac
[14:02] <\sh> Hobbsee, which version of ruby?
[14:03] <Hobbsee> \sh: (< 1.9.0)
[14:03] <\sh> Hobbsee, ah so not my fault with ruby1.9 ,-)
[14:03] <Hobbsee> \sh: they've decided to change the version #, and now have nothing in common with the actual version of ruby.
[14:04] <\sh> Hobbsee, you mean the version of the ruby package..grmpf..why that?
[14:05]  * \sh tries to find out why some libs for wine amd64 are not found by configure...
[14:06] <Hobbsee> \sh: yes.  see their changelog
[14:09] <Hobbsee> oh, twitch
[14:09] <\sh> Hobbsee, you mean 1.8.6.111 is wrong?
[14:10] <Hobbsee> \sh: i mean 4.1 is wrong.
[14:10] <tbutter> tuxmaniac: it is because you install the /usr/bin/*.sh files with alliance.install
[14:11] <shibata> persia: uploaded and commented: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=termlauncher-applet
[14:11] <\sh> Hobbsee, where do you see 4.1? /me is not really awake today :(
[14:12] <Hobbsee> \sh: version of ruby-defaults, of which the ruby binary is now built from
[14:12] <tbutter> tuxmaniac: those files are copied after your mv command. just do it manually.
[14:12] <tuxmaniac> tbutter, manually as in change the filename itself?
[14:13] <tbutter> tuxmaniac: i think renaming the initial files in debian/desktop would be the best. otherwise you could cp/install them in the rules file instead of using alliance.install
[14:14] <tbutter> anyone would like to review my package at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=jodviewer ?
[14:14] <tuxmaniac> tbutter, thanks a million for those valuable inputs. Hope I get someone to review my package before REVu day gets to a close
[14:15] <tuxmaniac> affter fixing those warnings ofcourse
[14:17] <\sh> Hobbsee, now I get it...
[14:20] <Hobbsee> \sh: i'm guessing the breakage of 8 packages are those that use the old ruby
[14:20]  * Hobbsee would have expected higher
[14:21] <\sh> Hobbsee, yepp
[14:26] <Godofgods> hello
[14:27] <Godofgods> can anyone help me with regards to developing software for linux?
[14:31] <jonnymind> Suggests fields in control should refer (= ${source:Version}) or (= ${binary:Version}) ?
[14:31] <jonnymind> (if they refer other binary pacakges in the same source control file?)
[14:36] <\sh> bah we need more libs in ia32-libs :(
[14:36] <geser> jonnymind: it depends mostly on the Architecture type (all or any) of the affected packages
[14:37] <peter1209>  hello
[14:37] <jonnymind> I think I got it;
[14:38] <jonnymind> geser: with architecture any?
[14:45] <geser> jonnymind: see "How to make packages binNMU safe?" on http://wiki.debian.org/binNMU
[14:45] <jonnymind> grazie
[14:45] <jonnymind> *thanks
[14:51] <jonnymind> gezer: If I get it right, in short any-to-any dependency and suggestion should be on binary version.
[14:52] <geser> tbutter: re jodviewer: it looks like you can build jodviewer with a java compiler from universe, but depend on a runtime from multiverse. This means the jodviewer must go to multiverse. Doesn't it run with a free jre?
[14:53] <geser> jonnymind: yes, if you need them to be strict
[14:53] <jonnymind> geser: k, thanks.
[14:55] <tbutter> geser: it runs with icedtea which is in universie
[14:56] <tbutter> geser: icedtea provides java6-runtime
[15:00] <geser> tbutter: but you list the sun-java6-jre as first in Depends
[15:01] <dcordero> i am fixing a bug, and must be to hardy because dont pass the stable conditions for changes in gutsy. Ok, i write on debian/changelog "hardy" but then lintian tell me:
[15:01] <dcordero> N:   Your version string suggests this package is for Ubuntu, so your
[15:01] <dcordero> N:   distribution should be one of gutsy, feisty, edgy, dapper, breezy,
[15:01] <dcordero> N:   hoary or warty.
[15:02] <geser> dcordero: lintian in gutsy doesn't know hardy.
[15:02] <Nafallo> outdated lintian
[15:02] <geser> dcordero: gutsy-backport has a newer lintian
[15:02] <dcordero> mmm ok ok ;/
[15:02] <dcordero> thanks
[15:04] <tbutter> geser: so the order matters?
[15:10] <tuxmaniac> how do I put in manpage the value "(*(*foobar". Is this right? \(*\\(*foobar
[15:10] <rexbron> Hey everyone! looking for a review. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=openfx
[15:10] <geser> tbutter: sort of, apt tries sun-java6-jre first before it looks for other packages providing java6-runtime
[15:11] <tbutter> geser, ok i'll change the order
[15:12] <tbutter> thx
[15:14] <geser> tbutter: if you change the order, you should list a real package as the first alternative
[15:16] <geser> rexbron: re openfx: what are the headers good for? doesn't it need to be linked to some library?
[15:16] <rexbron> geser, openfx is a c api only
[15:17] <rexbron> it only defines how to handle a plugin type in a program
[15:17] <rexbron> openfx does not do anything by itself
[15:18] <geser> do libraries exist which implement this API?
[15:20] <rexbron> geser, yes, OpenLibs but that is a seperate source package. The other implimentations are propritary
[15:20] <rexbron> Note that this is an optional dep for OpenLibs
[15:20] <geser> rexbron: the "Recommends: libopenfx" in libopenfx-doc is correct? shouldn't it recommend the -headers package?
[15:21] <rexbron> hmm, let me look
[15:21] <geser> rexbron: you use the wrong automatic bug closure syntax. it's "(LP: #xxx)" (the () are optional)
[15:22] <rexbron> ok, fixing both
[15:23] <rexbron> geser, Pushed a new source package.
[15:25] <awen_> when making copyright / changelog files what is the max number of columns in a line that i should use?
[15:26] <\sh> awen_, vim does know it ;)
[15:26] <rexbron> awen_, iirc 80
[15:26] <geser> awen_: it should fit into a normal terminal
[15:26] <awen_> \sh: needs to be trained for vim at some point :P
[15:27] <awen_> rexbron: thx
[15:28] <man-di> awen_: 76 is better
[15:28] <ion_> 72 is even better: you can indent it by an entire tabulator and it still fits. ;-)
[15:30] <awen_> i'll stick with 80 as some of it is already at 78 ;)
[15:30] <ion_> (By the way, you can reformat text in vim with the gq command.)
[15:36] <pochu> Is it a good idea to suggest -dev packages in the normal ones?
[15:37] <dcordero> i have subscribe to ubuntu sponsor to 2 bugs that i have fix. What i have to do now? only wait?
[15:37] <pochu> yes
[15:37] <dcordero> oki
[15:42] <mok0> I thought needs-packaging bugs were automatically closed when the package was uploaded...
[15:43] <rexbron> geser, Fixed another issue, new upload available
[15:43] <rexbron> mok0, iirc, the uploader sets it to "Fix Commited" and the build daemon/archive uploader will set it to "Fix Released" when the updated pacakge is in the archives
[15:44] <rzr> mok0: I had to close it myself too
[15:44] <mok0> rexbron: ok, so being in packages.ubuntu.com is not enough?
[15:45] <mok0> Is it ok to close it yourself?
[15:45] <rexbron> mok0, I could be wrong but that is the way I believe it should work. Check to see if binary packages are in archive.ubuntu.com
[15:45] <mok0> I want them off my list
[15:46] <mok0> rexbron: yeah, they're there.
[15:47] <rexbron> should be fine then
[15:47] <mok0> rexbron: fine to close, you mean?
[15:47] <rexbron> mok0, yes
[15:47] <mok0> rexbron: great, thx
[15:48]  * mok0 goes off to close some bugs
[15:48] <rexbron> mok0, That this did not happen automatically could be releated to the bugs not being set as "Fix Commited" when it was uploaded
[15:49] <mok0> rexbron: yeah that didn't happen
[15:50] <mok0> rexbron: uhm, it did happen on one of them
[15:50] <rexbron> Then perhaps I am incorrect as to how it works
[15:50] <mok0> rexbron: perhaps it doesn't :-)
[15:53]  * mok0 waits to get his karma updated :-)
[15:55] <warp10> Heya gang!
[15:57] <wallyweek> hi folks!
[16:06] <Legendario> i am having "make error 1" when trying to build a package. Does anyone know what it is?
[16:06] <Legendario> the error: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53400/
[16:07] <Legendario> i have already tried to download all the build dependencies i could guess...
[16:08] <mok0> Legendario: it tells you: you need pidgin installed
[16:08] <geser> Legendario: as configure complains about pidgin try pidgin-dev
[16:10] <Legendario> mok0: i have pidgin installed
[16:11] <Legendario> geser: and have installed the pidgin-dev
[16:11] <mok0> Like geser said, it is -dev
[16:11] <Legendario> thats the problem
[16:11] <mok0> Legendario: perhaps you need a switch to configure, to tell it where to find it. The macros are not always very smart
[16:11] <LucidFox> Gah!
[16:12] <mok0> Legendario: configure --help should tell you
[16:12]  * LucidFox goes to #ubuntu to rant about how his keyboard suddenly stopped working with a normal GNOME login
[16:12] <mok0> LucidFox: did you check the cable?
[16:13] <LucidFox> it works right now, in a safe mode xterm session
[16:13] <Legendario> mok0: what exactly should i do?
[16:14] <mok0> Legendario: does configure --help tell you something?
[16:14] <Legendario> mok0: tells me lots of things... i will paste bin. One second
[16:15] <Legendario> mok0: here it is: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53712/
[16:15]  * mok0 looks
[16:17] <mok0> Legendario: please pastebin configure.in (or configure.ac)
[16:17] <Legendario> ok
[16:18] <Legendario> mok0: here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53714/
[16:19] <mok0> Legendario: can you do a dpkg -l pidgin for me?
[16:19] <wallyweek> after nearly 1 year of work, sdlmame should be ready for advocation: can anyone have a look at it, please? :D http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sdlmame
[16:20] <mok0> wallyweek: the slowest packager in the Universe :-P
[16:22] <wallyweek> so it seems :(
[16:22] <mok0> wallyweek: j/k
[16:22] <mok0> Legendario: can you do a dpkg -l pidgin for me?
[16:23] <wallyweek> mok0: of course! :)
[16:24] <Legendario> ok
[16:25] <mok0> wallyweek: seems like it's gone through a few cycles of reviewing
[16:26] <Legendario> mok0: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53717/
[16:27] <mok0> Legendario: after that do: pkg-config --variable=libdir pidgin
[16:27] <mok0> ... and pkg-config --variable=datadir pidgin
[16:29] <Legendario> mok0, should i type /usr/bin in the place of libdir pidgin?
[16:29] <mok0> Legendario: no, just cut-n-paste this:
[16:30] <mok0> pkg-config --variable=datadir pidgin
[16:30] <mok0> into your terminal
[16:30] <mok0> Legendario: it should say: /usr/share
[16:30] <wallyweek> mok0: yes, with some gaps between each other
[16:30] <Legendario> mok0, that's it
[16:31] <mok0> Legendario:  pkg-config --variable=libdir pidgin
[16:31] <mok0> Legendario: that should say: /usr/lib
[16:31] <Legendario> mok0, /usr/share
[16:31] <mok0> Legendario: /usr/share, for libdir?
[16:32] <Legendario> mok0, no. /usr/lib
[16:32] <mok0> Legendario: that's fine
[16:32] <Legendario> mok0: sorry
[16:32]  * mok0 thinks for a while
[16:34] <Legendario> mok0, both have default values... what could it be?
[16:35] <mok0> Legendario: Something is wrong in the macro PKG_CHECK_MODULES. Try to comment it out, like this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53722/
[16:35] <albert23> Legendario: you are building in a pbuilder. That does not see pidgin on your local system.
[16:36] <Legendario> albert23, do u have any other solution?
[16:36] <LucidFox> I've determined that the keyboard lockup is caused by gnome-settings-daemob
[16:36] <LucidFox> *daemon
[16:36] <mok0> Legendario: you need pidgin-dev in Build-Requires
[16:36] <geser> Build-Depends
[16:37] <albert23> Legendario: what mok0 says. That will install pidgin in the pbuilder
[16:37] <Legendario> mok0, i have download the package already. What else should i do? i have updated pbuilder also
[16:37] <mok0> Legendario: errhh, like geser says: Build-Depends:
[16:38] <mok0> Legendario: The line build-depends tells pbuilder what packages to install before attempting to compile
[16:38] <mok0> Legendario: Pbuilder has a very basal system, it knows nothing about the system you are working on
[16:39] <Legendario> mok0, could you please guide me step by step?
[16:39] <mok0> Legendario: edit debian/control
[16:40] <mok0> Insert "pidgin-dev" in the line that appears near the top, that says "Build-Depends:"
[16:40] <mok0> remember a comma
[16:41] <mok0> Legendario: have you done that?
[16:41] <Legendario> mok0, do i have to build the source again with debuid -S -sa after it?
[16:41] <mok0> Legendario: yes
[16:41] <mok0> Legendario: to get your new changes in the diff.gz file
[16:41] <Legendario> ok
[16:42] <mok0> Legendario: then run your pbuilder
[16:42] <Legendario> mok0, i will try it
[16:42] <mok0> albert23: thanks for noticing the pbuilder
[16:42] <mok0> albert23: I was going out on a limb
[16:42] <albert23> mok0: no problem
[16:46] <Legendario> does pbuilder install "another system" tree on it's folder?
[16:46] <mok0> Legendario: yes
[16:46] <mok0> Legendario: it keeps it around in "base.tgz"
[16:47] <Legendario> mok0, so building packages is very space consuming... ;-)
[16:47] <mok0> Legendario: that's the nice thing: you don't need to pollute your workstation with all kinds of weird development packages
[16:48] <mok0> Legendario: not so much, that base.tgz is < 100 Mb
[16:50] <mok0> Legendario: expands to ~250Mb
[16:50] <Legendario> mok0, so i wasn't supposed to install the pidgin-dev on my system, only on the pbuilder?
[16:50] <mok0> Legendario: you are supposed to put it in Build-Depends, then it is automatically installed by the build system in pbuilder
[16:51] <mok0> Legendario: you should not install anything manually in your pbuilder system. Only update it now and then
[16:53] <Legendario> mok0, i haven't installed it manually on the pbuilder, but on my system through apt-get...
[16:53] <mok0> Legendario: I understand. If you want to build your system without using pbuilder, you need it of course
[16:54] <Legendario> mok0, i can probably uninstall it with no problens right?
[16:54] <mok0> Legendario: yes
[16:54] <mok0> Legendario: in general, you don't need -dev packages
[16:55] <Legendario> mok0, well it's downloading 123 packages... i guess it is going to take a while. I have to go now. I come back here later to tell you guys if it has worked
[16:55] <mok0> Legendario: cool
[16:55] <Legendario> mok0, thanks a lot
[16:55] <mok0> Legendario: don't thank me yet :-)
[16:56] <Legendario> you too albert123
[16:56] <Legendario> i gotta go now
[16:57] <mok0> So, my package gpp4 reached the archives, but the _all subpackage is not found for my amd64 system?
[16:58] <mok0>  libgpp4-dev: Depends: libgpp4-0 (= 1.0.4-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[16:58] <mok0> :(
[16:59] <mok0>   libgpp4-0: Depends: libgpp4-data but it is not installable
[17:01] <crimsun> mok0: what is libgpp4-data's source package?
[17:01] <mok0> crimsun: gpp4
[17:01] <mok0> crimsun: everything is in that
[17:02] <crimsun> mok0: there is no binary package named libgpp4-data in gpp4's debian/control.
[17:02] <mok0> crimsun: what??
[17:02] <crimsun> crimsun@Box:~/pulse.migration/gpp4-1.0.4$ grep -nH libgpp4-data debian/control
[17:02] <crimsun> debian/control:14:Depends: libgpp4-data, ${shlibs:Depends}
[17:02] <crimsun> looks like a packaging error.
[17:02] <mok0> crimsun: that is _strange_
[17:03]  * mok0 checks
[17:05] <mok0> crimsun: thank you. I merged that package into the shared library one in the very last minute. I don't know how I could have missed that dependency error
[17:06] <bddebian> Heya gang
[17:06] <geser> Hi bddebian
[17:06] <bddebian> Heya geser
[17:09] <wallyweek> hi bddebian!
[17:10] <wallyweek> bddebian: could you please have a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sdlmame :D
[17:13] <bddebian> Hello wallyweek.  I'll try
[17:13] <wallyweek> bddebian: thanks!
[17:17] <jdong> persia: thanks!
[17:21] <mok0> If someone could take a look at Bug #186393 before revu day, I would be grateful
[17:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186393 in gpp4 "Bogus dependency in libgpp4-0 shared library package" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186393
[17:29] <geser> mok0: looks ok, I'll try to remember to upload it later
[17:46] <\sh> what is the syntax for adding more bugnos to (LP: #<bugno>), is it comma separated?
[18:47] <tbutter> i uploaded a new version at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=jodviewer . anybody want to give it a review?
[19:01] <\sh> Nightrose, done :)
[19:01] <Nightrose> \sh: done what?
[19:01] <\sh> Nightrose, xing
[19:02] <Nightrose> ohhh ;-) hehe thx
[19:08] <\sh> ok...pushed wine with some bugfixes...
[19:44] <jdong> persia: when you commented upstream changelog would be nice, you mean try to find the SVN changelog up to the 0.2 release and ship it as a debian/docs?
[19:45] <Taggard> persia: That dependancy thing you gave me: I have no idea how to do it because I have n oidea why it won't work.
[19:45] <Taggard> persia: Ive added emacs22 as an optional dependacy but it still doesnt work
[19:46] <juliank> persia: I've done what you requested @ http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=industrial-icon-theme
[19:46] <jdong> O_O did I just start a ping persia flood? :D
[19:47]  * Taggard laughs at everyone taqlking to persia 
[19:47] <mok0> i would be grateful if someone could take a quick look at bug #186393 -- before revu day would be great because it is a dependency of the clipper package that I will upload later
[19:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186393 in gpp4 "Bogus dependency in libgpp4-0 shared library package" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186393
[19:53] <Taggard> mok0: I can't find the package in question
[19:54] <mok0> Taggard: hang on...
[19:54] <mok0> Taggard: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gpp4/gpp4_1.0.4-0ubuntu1.dsc
[19:55] <Taggard> mok0: Okay
[20:25] <persia> jdong: I think upstream changelogs are user-useful.  Others disagree.  IF you pull a changelog from somewhere and install it, you make me happy.
[20:25] <persia> Taggard: What happens if you just change "gutsy" to "hardy" in the last proposed patch?
[20:25] <civija> guys, where can i find some info why there are no freenx packages for gutsy?
[20:26] <persia> juliank: Excellent.  Now you just need another reviewer :)
[20:26] <Taggard> persia: I did that
[20:27] <persia> civija: There's never been any freenx package.  Maybe search for a needs-packaging bug?
[20:27] <persia> Taggard: And it still didn't work?
[20:27] <Taggard> persia: It makes me install emacs21, yeah
[20:28] <persia> Hmm....  which bug was it again?
[20:28] <Taggard> persia: Let me see
[20:28] <Taggard> bug #152348
[20:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152348 in mmm-mode "on feisty, the mmm-mode package forces installing emacs21 instead of emacs22" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152348
[20:29] <persia> Taggard: Did you already have emacs22 installed before installing mmm-mode?
[20:31] <Coper> Hi can someone revu http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=console-freecell thanks.
[20:32] <civija> persia: you are right, there is needs-packaging bug
[20:32] <civija> persia: if i decide to package it how can i get it included in universe?
[20:33] <Seveas> civija, good luck with that -- upstream for NX has an insane buildsystem from hell
[20:33] <civija> Seveas: that is why you quit packaging it?
[20:33] <Seveas> civija, and archive admins told me in the past that NX won't be accepted because it's basically an unpatched old version of X
[20:34] <civija> aha, tnx
[20:34] <Seveas> It's just not worth the trouble
[20:40] <steveire> jdong: ping?
[20:58] <LaserJock> hmmpf, I don't understand how people can subscribe themselves to a list and not figure out how to unsubscribe
[20:58] <jdong> LaserJock: it onl says on the bottom of every e-mail...
[20:58] <jdong> :D
[20:58] <LaserJock> exactly
[20:59] <LaserJock> and I'm staring at an email that says "please unsubscribe me from this list"
[21:00] <jdong> persia: thanks for the opinion, indeed half-decent upstream changelogs are good to have, but my upstream provides none. I've uploaded another candidate with an upstream svn listing, but that isn't nearly as interesting as an upstream changelog, I am considering at this point to not include that in the final candidate :)
[21:01] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: pingaloo, can you make me an admin for ~motuscience?
[21:01] <persia> jdong: Seems reasonable.  My basic position is that upstream changelogs are good, as debian/changelog is often populated with "New Upstream Version (LP: #nnnnnn)", but this only makes sense when the upstream changelog is actually readable and contains useful information.
[21:02] <jpatrick> jdong: you're wanted in #kubuntu-devel
[21:02] <jdong> jpatrick: ooh, for what?
[21:02] <jpatrick> backports
[21:03] <jdong> persia: right. Well I'm not all that familiar with this project's history, but definitely for the next version I'd know enough about the release to populate at least a bit more than "new upstream release" and summarize changes
[21:04] <persia> jdong: As long as someone is hand-parsing and populating debian/changelog reasonably, the upstream changelog is less important.
[21:05] <jdong> persia: agreed
[21:07] <Taggard> persia: I did, yes.
[21:07] <Taggard> persia: Sorry for the longg delay
[21:10] <persia> Taggard: Strange.  I'm about to run off, but I suggest reviewing the dependencies of your binary package.  You might need a | emacs22 |
[21:12] <Taggard> persia: Okay
[21:12] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Sure.
[21:14] <mok0> Taggard: so, what's the verdict on the bug? Can you re-upload?
[21:19] <Taggard> mok0: Eh, I haven't been able to get the source. I am sorry if you got your hopes up, I'm just new around here. If you can tell me the name of the source package I can try though.
[21:20] <mok0> Taggard: couldn't you get the source from that link I posted?
[21:20] <Taggard> mok0: No, I tried all the packages in there.
[21:20] <Taggard> mok0: apt-get source failed on all of them, and I also tried some regexp's.
[21:21] <mok0> Taggard: dget -x http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gpp4/gpp4_1.0.4-0ubuntu1.dsc
[21:21] <mok0> Taggard: use dget
[21:21] <Taggard> mok0: Ah :)_
[21:21] <Taggard> mok0: I'll have a hack at it then, what is the bug number?
[21:21] <Taggard> mok0: I don't promise anything though
[21:22] <mok0> Taggard: bug 186393
[21:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186393 in gpp4 "Bogus dependency in libgpp4-0 shared library package" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186393
[21:24] <Taggard> mok0: Building it
[21:24] <mok0> Taggard: could you apply the debdiff?
[21:25] <Taggard> mok0: I fixed the bug
[21:26] <mok0> Taggard: When did you become motu?
[21:26] <Taggard> mok0: I'm not an motu, but I'm trying to help
[21:26] <Taggard> a mptu*
[21:26] <Taggard> motu**
[21:26] <mok0> Taggard: Ah, ok, but then you can't upload
[21:27] <Taggard> mok0: No :(
[21:28] <steveire> siretart: ping?
[21:28] <Taggard> mok0: Do ou want libgpp4-0_1.0.4-0ubuntu2_i386.deb
[21:28] <mok0> Taggard: I've got it
[21:28] <Taggard> mok0: ubuntu2?, that is the version I just built
[21:29] <mok0> Taggard: My problem is getting someone to re-upload the fixed package at ubuntu's server
[21:29] <crimsun> mok0: I've uploaded it.  In the future, you just need to ask for a correction.
[21:29] <Taggard> mok0: Oh :/
[21:29]  * Taggard sighs.
[21:29] <mok0> crimsun: in what way do you mean, correction?
[21:29] <crimsun> mok0: just ask for it to be uploaded.
[21:29] <mok0> Thanks for your effort, Taggard
[21:30] <Taggard> mok0: Hehe.
[21:30] <mok0> crimsun: here on the channel?
[21:30] <Taggard> mok0: It is good practice even if I did the wrong thing
[21:30] <mok0> Taggard: exactly!
[21:30] <crimsun> yes, because ~u-u-s has a higher latency.
[21:30] <mok0> crimsun: got it, thanks!
[21:30] <crimsun> subscribing u-u-s and asking are sufficient.
[21:30] <mok0> crimsun: I think I subscribed u-u-s, didn't I?
[21:31] <crimsun> mok0: yes.
[21:31] <crimsun> (i.e., there's usually someone around who can upload)
[21:31] <mok0> crimsun: It's was a stupid little error to get stuck on
[21:31] <crimsun> at least it was innocuous.
[21:32] <mok0> crimsun: the library is a dependency of a package I will upload shortly
[21:32] <Taggard> Anyway, is there a tool or way to check the dependancies of a binary .deb package?
[21:32] <mok0> Taggard: a pbuilder is good
[21:33] <Taggard> mok0: ?
[21:33] <mok0> Taggard: install the package in a pbuilder
[21:33] <Taggard> Oh
[21:33] <Taggard> :/ I unfortunately have no idea what you mean.
[21:33] <Taggard> I'm really kinda new at this.
[21:34] <mok0> ubotu, !pbuilder > Taggard
[21:35] <Taggard> mok0: Oh, I've done that. But I don't know how to install them in the chroot.
[21:35] <Taggard> I've only used pbuilder to build
[21:35] <mok0> pbuilder --login
[21:36] <Taggard> Okay!
[21:36] <Taggard> So then I'd jsut install a package like normal?
[21:36] <crimsun> pbuilder has a couple hooks that can be used to automate testing package installation/upgrade/removal
[21:36] <mok0> Taggard: you can use apt-get like always
[21:37] <crimsun> these exist in /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/
[21:37] <crimsun> namely, B91dpkg-i and execute_installtest.sh
[21:37] <Taggard> mok0: Heh, you are better qualified than me at this
[21:38] <mok0> Taggard: nah, crimsuns the man :-)
[21:38]  * mok0 should play with pbuilder hooks
[21:38] <Taggard> crimsun: This is what I wanted
[21:40] <mok0> crimsun: Is B91dpkg-i executed from within the chroot?
[21:41] <mok0> crimsun: I don't see how the packages get into /tmp/buildd
[21:41] <Taggard> mok0: You move then
[21:41] <Taggard> them
[21:41] <crimsun> mok0: specify a directory containing the hooks you want.  See pbuilder(8).
[21:43] <Taggard> crimsun: This is gunna help a lot :)
[21:43] <crimsun> e.g., sudo pbuilder build --hookdir "~/blah" junk.dsc
[21:43] <crimsun> you could also use --execute [...].
[21:44] <mok0> crimsun: Ah, I understand, it will execute all the scripts at different points in the process
[21:45] <mok0> I guess you can also use --bindmounts if you don't have your .debs in an apt-get'able archive
[21:47] <crimsun> with the usual caveat of such mounts, e.g., don't blow away files willy-nilly.  Bad Things can happen.
[21:47] <crimsun> not that that has ever happened to me.  *cough*
[21:48] <mok0> crimsun: /tmp is a good candidate
[21:49]  * mok0 uses /tmp for all his development work ;-)
[21:56] <jdong> is this a good place to cry about revu UI annoyances or is there a more appropriate venue?
[21:56] <jdong> crimsun: haha recursive deletes and mountpoints... dont' we all have those nightmares to relive :D
[21:58] <jdong> nvm, grievance already filed
[22:02] <crimsun> hmph.  I guess it would be a good idea to backport alsa-driver 1.0.16rc1.
[22:21] <mcisbackuk> How do I help out with the unmet-deps? I know how to change the control files and make sure that the builds are fine, and create interdiff patches for the changes, does this get done through LP or??
[22:22] <crimsun> mcisbackuk: yes, bugs should be filed using LP against the appropriate source packages, and debdiffs, attached.
[22:23] <mcisbackuk> crimsun: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ so just check on there, file bug for one of them unless one is there, fix and upload debdiff?
[22:25] <crimsun> mcisbackuk: and subscribe the appropriate ubuntu-foo-sponsors LP team as appropritae
[22:25] <crimsun> appropriate*
[22:26] <mcisbackuk> yup got that kewl thanks for help :)
[22:26] <mcisbackuk> oh one other thing, does the version number get changed, like from 1ubuntu1 to 1ubuntu2?
[22:28] <crimsun> generally, dch -i will get it correct.
[22:29] <mcisbackuk> ok kewl thanks crimsun :)
[22:39] <vemon> ok. the first version of phasex is in revu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=phasex
[22:39] <vemon> please revu if you got some time & are interested in getting bleeding edge sound synths to ubuntu :)
[22:45] <mok0> vemon, not a motu but a couple of comments
[22:45] <mok0> vemon: debian/docs, no need to include COPYING
[22:45]  * ion_ purchased a hardware synth recently. :-)
[22:46] <mok0> vemon: phasex.man must be phasex.1
[22:46] <vemon> damn.. i first named it phasex.1 but saw .man postfix in some other packages
[22:47] <mok0> vemon: I'm not sure, dh_installman may rename it
[22:47] <vemon> it probably does since it works after installing the package
[22:47] <vemon> i thought it would be more clear to have .man postfix in the package source
[22:47] <mok0> vemon: I'll try and see
[22:47] <ion_> As long as it’s installed correctly, i don’t think there’s a problem. But i don’t have authoritative knowledge about the issue.
[22:48] <vemon> yes, it seems to rename it. at least the .deb has usr/share/man/man1/phasex.1.gz
[22:54] <mok0> vemon: yep
[22:54] <mok0> vemon: that's dh_installman magick
[22:55] <vemon> lord, i thank thy for the magic :)
[22:56] <jdong> thee.
[22:56] <vemon> i don't have to upload a new version.. at least not yet :D
[22:56] <mok0> vemon: You need a priority field in debian/control
[22:56] <mok0> vemon: Priority: optional
[22:56] <vemon> ok. i just removed "Prioriry: extra" :D
[22:56] <vemon> Priority
[22:56] <mok0> vemon: put it back
[22:57] <jdong> and I beleive thy magic is correct too
[22:57] <mok0> vemon: remove COPYING from debian/docs
[22:57] <jdong> I thankest thou?
[22:58] <vemon> mok0, done. anything else you noticed?
[22:59] <mok0> vemon: In manpage, you need a correct .SH NAME line
[22:59] <joejaxx> woohoo
[22:59]  * joejaxx is about to do something crazy
[22:59] <joejaxx> :)
[22:59] <joejaxx> like upgrade the gutsy livecd to hardy live
[23:00] <mok0> phasex \- program to do something
[23:00] <LaserJock> DktrKranz: ping
[23:00] <mok0> vemon: that's a fixed format
[23:00] <vemon> mok0, in the manfile?
[23:00] <DktrKranz> LaserJock, pong
[23:00] <mok0> vemon: yes, the line after .SH NAME
[23:01] <vemon> mok0, should it be the binary name?
[23:01] <vemon> or the program name
[23:01] <mok0> vemon: i.e. phasex
[23:01] <vemon> phasex vs. PHASEX
[23:01] <mok0> vemon: binary name
[23:01] <LaserJock> DktrKranz: you didn't think a crash for klavaro warranted an SRU?
[23:02] <LaserJock> seems like that would fall under the "regression" category
[23:02] <mok0> vemon: phasex \- advanced software synthesizer
[23:03] <mok0> vemon: I also think your manpage is b.o.r.i.n.g. This is where you want to advertise your program and say how good and fantastic it is
[23:03] <DktrKranz> LaserJock, I had some doubt about it because it is reproducible with some locales only and it is quite hard to reproduce, but I agree it may fall under "regression"
[23:03] <mok0> vemon: explain what you can do with the program, why it is better than others, what it can do that others can't etc.
[23:05] <mok0> vemon: it is also good with some examples (if relevant) in the manpage. So the casual user can try it out and get it to work right away
[23:06] <DktrKranz> LaserJock, my main concern is about what we mean with "severe regression", though
[23:09] <TheMuso> Mousetweaks on revu is seeking a second advocate.
[23:09] <TheMuso> I just advocated it.
[23:12] <jdong> TheMuso: I don't get any love?
[23:13] <TheMuso> jdong: ??
[23:13] <jdong> TheMuso: never mind ;-)
[23:13] <TheMuso> jdong: Ok.
[23:13] <mcisbackuk> Can someone have a look at bug #186457, I'm not sure if I done it right, it's literally a 2 second look lol :) Thanks
[23:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186457 in a2mp3 "[unmet-deps] a2mp3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186457
[23:13] <TheMuso> jdong: If you want a package looked over, let me know. I doubt I can do a thorough job now, but I can have a lgood look later, when  I have more time, and am a bit less tired.
[23:14] <steveire> siretart: ping?
[23:14] <jdong> TheMuso: yeah, clutch, already on revu. It should be at the 90%-ish ready state
[23:14] <LaserJock> DktrKranz: hmm, I see. Although it doesn't look like it takes too much to fix it, the debdiff is small. They went to all the trouble
[23:14] <TheMuso> jdong: Ok, will take a look when I get a chance, probably when I get home.
[23:15] <LaserJock> steveire: he's on German time and not likely around at the moment and you've already pinged him so perhaps email or waiting until he gets up is a good idea
[23:15] <jdong> DktrKranz / LaserJock: I took a quick look at that, and if they are willing to follow through I don't see why it shouldn't be approved. "I don't have a configuration that triggers the bug so it must not be important" doesn't sound all that right :)
[23:16] <steveire> LaserJock: OK. I'll try tomorrow. Cheers
[23:16] <jdong> TheMuso: thanks in advance
[23:16] <TheMuso> jdong: np
[23:16] <steveire> What's the deal with that anyway? Do people leave their computers on and logged into IRC?
[23:16] <jdong> steveire: I do
[23:17] <RAOF> I do, but more so.
[23:17] <mcisbackuk> Did I do wrong fixing a debian policy change bug #186457, I don't wanna get flamed for it, just trying to help out, but is this right, and OK?
[23:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186457 in a2mp3 "[unmet-deps] a2mp3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186457
[23:17] <mok0> vemon: I put comments on revu for your reference
[23:17] <jdong> steveire: it's been 4 or so months since I've logged out
[23:17] <steveire> What's the benefir?
[23:17] <LaserJock> steveire: yes, many do so that they can read what's been going on
[23:17] <steveire> t*
[23:17] <jdong> steveire: I do read all mentions of my name while away and also like to know what's been going on since
[23:17] <steveire> oh right.
[23:17] <DktrKranz> jdong, well, my configuration triggered the crash (with some locales only). My main doubt is about severity of that bug.
[23:17] <steveire> It must take a while to catch up.
[23:18] <jdong> DktrKranz: well if one person was irritated enough to go all the way to the point of a debdiff, I think it's fair to assume a fair number of people were irritated by the bug
[23:20] <DktrKranz> jdong, good point. Can we assume "severe regression" includes such cases? No doubt is a regression, but I think we should analyze what we mean with "severe"
[23:21] <DktrKranz> jdong, anyway, it's reproducible (at least I was able to) and should be easy to test the fix as well.
[23:29] <jdong> DktrKranz: severe to me means that the defect significantly impairs the operation of the program. A crash would definitely suffice, while a spelling mistake in the preferences window is not.
[23:29] <jdong> DktrKranz: Of course this is much looser than what I'd say if we were ~ubuntu-sru
[23:30] <emgent> heya
[23:34] <DktrKranz> jdong, I was looking at some bugs approved by ~ubuntu-sru, and in some circumstances sigsegv-fix SRUs passed without many discussions, so I agree with you.
[23:36] <crimsun> I can't help but think that perhaps we're misthinking the entire SRU testing infrastructure.
[23:36] <crimsun> why aren't we using vm images?
[23:37] <crimsun> (granted, it's not feasible for some portion of the testing range, like some packages affecting hardware)
[23:38] <LaserJock> crimsun: yep
[23:38] <DktrKranz> crimsun, IIRC use of vm images is fine: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification
[23:40] <crimsun> DktrKranz: more complicated than that, but I don't have it fleshed out yet.
[23:47] <crimsun> there's no SRU/security policy that can satisfy every possible requirement.  They're just starting points.  We have a release manager.  Shouldn't our release manager have authority to say, "look, this is a serious bugfix and needs to get in now"?
[23:49] <emgent> heya crimsun DktrKranz
[23:50] <crimsun> hi
[23:50] <DktrKranz> hi emgent
[23:51] <LaserJock> crimsun: well, um that'd be nice