/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/01/28/#ubuntu-devel.txt

LaserJockasac: there is some flexibility via ~ubuntu-sru that's true, but the process seems to dissuade quite a number of people from even trying00:00
jcastrobryce: I think it might be a good idea to bring this up in the -devel mailing list.00:01
LaserJockand although i can see somewhat of a point in making it hard enough to do an SRU that people need to find a good reason for doing it, it can also have a negative effect on how upstreams look at Ubuntu, IMO00:01
jcastrobryce: some gnome'rs have brought up the same issues00:01
jcastrobryce: I am sure you're as jet lagged as I am00:02
jcastroso going to move on at this point...00:02
asacLaserJock: why do they get dissuaded? because they cannot set the right switches in launchpad, or because they don't want to provide patches that are properly documented for each individual issue?00:02
jcastroand I think I am sick now; here comes the ubuflu00:02
crimsunlikely a combination.00:02
asacjcastro: get well soon :-P00:03
brycejcastro: take some airborne; I find it really helps00:03
LaserJockasac: because they feel they did the responsibility of releasing a bug-fix and are being told that they now need to fill out Ubuntu paperwork00:03
brycejcastro: I make it a habit of bringing a tube of it when I'm out of town and take one a day00:03
LaserJockI think the situation would be very much different if we had enough eyes and hands to actively keep up with upstreams00:03
jcastrobryce: lots of liquids seem to help00:03
asacLaserJock: usually the paper work is done by ubuntu devs or contributors that want to see those fixes in it. so somehow you are right that we don't have enough hands to do that. but changing the policy won't help here imo00:04
LaserJockwell, a know that we've had problems in the past where devs and contributors were not filing SRUs because it was excessive paperwork00:05
LaserJockit depends on somebody actually caring enough to do it, and at present I'm not sure we have enough people to even cover Main well if it's a "well if you care so much why don't you file a SRU" kind of thing00:06
bryceasac: I disagree; there are many, many cases where people request an Xorg / driver fix be put out for Gutsy, that I don't do because of all the paperwork.00:06
bryceasac: In fact, I've pretty much given up on the idea of SRU's for Xorg driver updates, and have been working on building something on Envy00:08
brycewhich I think is going to be a better solution all around, but it's admittedly working around the sru process, not fixing it00:09
asacbryce: hmm ... imo if they are not critical enough to do that paper work it might be a good indicator that they shouldn't go in imo. and drivers usually have a high risk to come with hard-impact regressions. if they break they might just break a previously working system completely.00:11
bryceasac, yes this is the circular logic that irritates the heck out of me - "If it's important enough, you ought to be willing to do 3 days worth of paperwork to get it in.  If you're not willing to do 3 days worth of paperwork, then obviously it isn't important enough."00:14
bryceif you're not a terrorist, then why should you have a problem with being cavity searched each time you fly?  If you have a problem, then maybe you are a terrorist?00:15
asacbryce: for you a driver fix takes 3 days? how many bugs do they fix?00:16
bryceand yes, driver changes obviously carry more significant risk than a package like inkscape.  but at the same time the bugs they fix tend to be more severe as well - usually solving "I can't get Ubuntu to work on my computer anymore due to X problems" compared with "Inkscape crashes when I cross my eyes"00:17
bryceasac, 3 days is a best case; obviously usually a driver SRU takes much, much longer00:18
asacyou mean it consumes 3 days of work or takes 3 or more days of your attention00:18
bryceasac, and "has a non-zero chance of breaking a previously working system" is why driver SRU's have proven impossible to file.00:19
bryceasac, packaging, building, and thoroughly testing a driver change can easily consume a day by itself.  The paperwork takes additional time - maybe an afternoon, as does summarizing bug report commentary into problem descriptions and test cases, and then additional time/attention responding to review requests, usually requiring modifying the packaging and going through the rebuild/retest process a few times, then a whole bunch of00:23
brycetime spread over several days or weeks recruiting other people to also test the package and respond to their questions00:23
bryceso I would estimate 3 days of effort to be a minimum for filing a sru for a driver bug00:24
brycebut more likely it would take several week's of attention00:24
bryceand after this, it would almost always be denied.00:24
asacbryce: yeah ... i see. imo the process is right still. if we cannot guarantee that there is no regression, we cannot really upload drivers00:24
bryceasac, ah and I gather you do not see this as an issue?00:25
asacso it does the right thing .... under the assumptions that we follow a "stable release policy" as we currently define it.00:25
asacbryce: of course, but not an issue that can be easily fixed00:26
bryceasac, and in any case, wouldn't it save more time and angst to simply say, "Our policy is no changes to drivers in a Ubuntu release due to risk of regressions," rather than elaborating this extremely lengthy SRU process document with all this paperwork?00:26
bryceasac, it seems like the process is documented with the idea of handling something severe and high risk like Xorg, but is being applied even in cases like Inkscape where really there isn't such a high risk00:27
bryceso it ends up being inapplicable for the former, and too complicated to bother with for the latter00:27
asacwell ... we have two big classes of regressions that we care about: 1. complete system breakage ... 2. feature breakage.00:39
asacif 1. can happen we cannot upload at all (as we found out for the drivers)00:39
asac2. we can only prevent by thoroughly reviewing and not letting in bug fixes that are not high-impact or whose patches don't look reasonably minimal imo.00:40
asacmaybe really raise this on ML. maybe we can really find something we can improve00:45
brycewell, I return to my original point - solving this by imposing a lot of paperwork to the point that people stop bothering to try doing sru's is just sweeping problems under the rug, not really solving the problem.00:45
asacbryce: the paparwork is done to take load from rare resources: sru reviewers00:46
asacyou cannot expect the reviewer to figure out how to get the patches to review them et al00:46
asac(i don't say that all is perfect, but in general it does what we want imo)00:47
bryceI can understand that.  What I'm saying is that pushing that workload back onto the sru requestor ends up reducing the number of sru requestors00:47
bryceso yes, in a way it solves the problem of the sru reviewer's workload00:47
asac ... which can or cannot be a bad thing ...00:47
brycesigh00:48
asac:)00:48
* asac hugs bryce 00:48
asacok i am off going to bed. we should go ahead on ml00:48
brycein any case, it feels like the process is broken, and trying to get it fixed is just wasted breath00:48
brycenight00:48
brycewell, like I said, for my own issues (both inkscape and xorg) I'm just bypassing using sru's to get the work done00:49
bryceI just hope that other people's complaints about the sru process get listened to and not just dismissed as "whining"00:50
brycesince I think long term it could hinder Ubuntu in general00:50
asaci think nobody declares this discussion as whining ... if we can improve things, we should improve them. but i don't see how we can lower the documentation bar because its essential for reviewers. only accepting high-impact bugs is in some way a measure to overcome that we don't have endless resources and the vague definition of high-impact already gives us enough flexibility to approach special cases imo.00:54
theunixgeekHow do I make my own window border theme?01:26
theunixgeekHow do I make my close button be red and the minimize button blue without writing a completely new theme? (GNOME, GTK, etc)01:28
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pittiGood mornign06:32
RAOFAfternoon, pitti06:33
LaserJockhi pitti!06:34
LaserJockback from the Sprint?06:34
pittiLaserJock: yeah, got home Saturday evening06:37
* Fujitsu was wondering how jcastro got his photo of a couple of distro-teamers recovering from NM 0.7.06:40
pittiwell, he walked into the room and pointed his cam at us, easy :)07:12
LaserJockpitti: was it a pretty productive sprint?07:14
Fujitsupitti: Well, yes, but I didn't realise there was a sprint.07:14
pittiLaserJock: I'd say so; lots of ad-hoc discussions, hands-on trainings, hacking, and clearing the TODO list07:16
gesergood morning07:16
pittihey geser07:16
geserHi pitti07:17
LaserJockpitti: so we may get Hardy out the door after all? ;-)07:18
pittipossibly :)07:24
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warp10Heya all08:20
l0wrdi need some help.  im appear to be missing glade-2.008:20
l0wrdi keep getting a message "ld: cannot find -lglade-2.0"08:21
l0wrdcan someone help me?08:21
l0wrdi have installed glade3 and done "apt-get install glade"08:21
RAOFl0wrd: Off topic for this channel (it's not development *of* Ubuntu).  Also, you probably want libglade-dev, or somesuch package.08:21
l0wrdRAOF: i see your point.08:22
l0wrdRAOF: thank you for your help, everything is working now.08:24
dholbachgood morning08:48
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asachi08:58
pittihey asac, hey dholbach09:19
dholbachhey pitti, hey asac09:20
* asac hugs pitti + dholbach 09:21
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asacpitti: have you read the SRU discussion we had from 00:00 -> 02:00 yesterday?09:22
asacaeh today :)09:22
pittiasac: no, seems my proxy had some trouble with freenode connection09:22
asacoh unfortunate :) ... i saw you online iirc09:23
asacbut maybe that was at the end09:23
asacpitti: starts at 23:11 here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/01/27/%23ubuntu-devel.txt ... and continues on http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/01/28/%23ubuntu-devel.txt09:25
pittiasac: ugh, that's a lot -- what was the problem and conclusion?09:27
pittiand I don't agree that it's overly bureaucratic09:28
pittiif you can demonstrate the problem, have a patch, and someone to test the upgrade, then you can just do an upload09:28
asaci agree09:28
pittiand if you fail any of these three, then an SRU is absolutely not appropriate09:28
asacits bryce, jcastro and laserjock that disagreed09:28
pitti[23:31] <bryce> I'd never argue that testing should not be thoroughly done or that the process should be "slacker"; but that the sru process as currently written is extremely labor intensive to whomever wishes to push the sru along, and is likely resulting in people not wishing to help in the sru process, with the consequence that justifiably important sru's are not getting through.09:32
pittibryce: ^ please tell me where the SRU process is labor-intensive which is not related to testing and necessary QA09:32
pittibryce: attach a patch and justification to a bug, upload a fix, coordinate testing (or ask sru-verification), that's it for you09:33
seb128I've to admit the wiki page is not inviting09:33
pittibryce: I don't see how it could become any less bureaucratic09:33
pittiI saw a lot of people doing SRUs in 'fire and forget' mode09:33
pittiand the process is deliberately designed to not move these into -updates automatically09:34
pittibryce: I'm always open to suggestions how to improve it and make it less bureaucratic, so please tell me :)09:34
seb128pitti: the wiki description takes several pages, I would not say it looks easy for people who wants to contribute09:34
asacseb128: maybe we can polish the wiki ... like make the main document leaner and put the details in kind of a "check-list" that is kept separate.09:34
seb128asac: would be nice09:35
pittiseb128: right, it's very detailled, since it's documentation09:35
pittibut people already do it incorrectly even with the current level of detail09:35
pittiand it's not nice to push all the work to me, to fix bug states, repeatedly bother people about "is it fixed in hardy yet?" and "please fix it in hardy first", "how can I reproduce", etc.09:36
seb128do you think they read it? or they run away because that looks too complicated?09:37
seb128pitti: I don't think anybody wants to push the work to you09:37
seb128but the wiki description should be something like09:37
seb128* describe the issues and how to trigger it easy09:38
pittino, not 'want', but it ends up being me who does the work because people don't follow the documentation09:38
seb128* attach your changes09:38
pittiso I can always point them to '2.3 of policy' etc.09:38
seb128* subscribe the team and get testing09:38
seb128we discussed the wiki documentation with ogra at the bar some days ago, and I sort of agree with him, we have things too complicated and that scares users away sometimes09:39
seb128we should have a small and easy description09:39
pittiusers shouldn't be concerned about this at all09:39
seb128and an another page with details09:39
pittiwe communicate to them through bug reports09:39
pittii. e. 'Please test the fix in -proosed and tell us how it goes'09:39
seb128users -> contributors09:39
pitti<blatantly candid mode>if a contributor is not able to understand this policy, we should not leave him anywhere near SRU09:40
asacpitti: i think one special case that was discussed and for which the process (righly) is too complex is that of pushing new upstream "bugfix-only releases" ...09:40
pittithose instructions are not at all difficult; they are particularly easy and detailled09:40
asacmy comment was: ...  upstream will always push to fix as many bugs as possible, so their application is perceived as prefect as possible to the majority of their users. the distro itself is more scared about regressions that might hit a minority of production deployments.09:40
seb128well, I've to admit I already delayed SRUs because I didn't do some for some months and I opening the wiki page was enough to make me not want to do it09:41
pittiasac: I see; well, that's orthogonal to the process document, though09:41
pittiseb128: you delayed some SRUs because nobody bothered to do at least a single test09:41
seb128I don't want to read complicated text, I just need to basic actions09:41
pittiseb128: i. e. the 'fire and forget' mode09:41
pittiwhich just doesn't work for SRUs09:41
pittiseb128: I did; I followed up with 'please test the package in -proosed'09:41
seb128no, when I said delayed, it's a SRU I had to do09:41
pittiah09:42
seb128and honestly I find the wiki page too complicated and discouraging09:42
pittiso would it help to split it into a 'process' and a 'checklist for each step'?09:42
seb128I just want the: do the patch, subscribe sru, add a testcase09:42
seb128yes09:42
pittithe problem that i see is that nobody would bother to read the checklist any more09:43
seb128do you really think they do now?09:43
pittiand the SRU team would end up with getting a lot of bad or wrong SRUs09:43
pittiwhich in the end stalls the process much more09:43
pittiseb128: some don't09:43
seb128I think they just decide "it's too complicated, let's upload and tag"09:43
seb128and some other are discouraged and run away09:43
seb128some other do read it most likely too09:44
pittiI don't think that there's a brilliant solution to this TBH09:44
seb128but I'm not sure that those who read the pages would not look at the checklist if they have a doubt09:44
pittian SRU process is inherently complicated, so you cannot really come up with a trivial three-line document to describe it09:44
seb128right, I'm not sure either09:44
pittithe current policy hasn't been invented out of thin air09:44
seb128it's not really complicated09:45
pittiwe started with a very small process, got breakage, and added checks to it to fix that breakage in the future09:45
seb128it's basically: you have an easy patch which would make things nicer for lot of users, apply it to the stable package, test, write a testcase, upload09:45
pittiseb128: what we can do immediately is to split the process into one for the developer and one for the SRU team09:46
pittiseb128: right, that plus having a bug# and fixing it in hardy first09:46
pittiseb128: I specifically added the 'upload immediately without ack' case a few months ago09:46
pittisince that 'wait for SRU ack' was a discouraging delay09:46
pittiand it works well so far09:47
seb128right, I don't think SRU are too complicates09:47
seb128I think the wiki page is though09:47
* pitti will split the process accordingly (dev vs. SRU team)09:47
seb128you have 6 sections there and up to 7 items in those09:48
seb128right, would be nice to split between what the uploader has to do09:49
seb128and what SRU team, etc have to do to validate09:49
cjwatsonsoren: feel free to send me a patch for the openssh host key thing you mentioned; I guess my only concern is that entropy might be scarce at init time and it could slow down boot substantially, and so it would still be better to generate them in the postinst if possible10:12
cjwatson\sh_away: the decision-tree stuff in console-data has been there for a while now, but you can drop it on merge if you like; we don't use console-data any more10:12
cjwatsonCarlFK: you can if you like, but it won't make any difference since I'm already auto-notified of openssh bugs10:13
cjwatsonCarlFK: I've followed up to your bug10:15
sorencjwatson: Well, the postinst invokes the init script, so they'd be generated at install time regardless.10:18
cjwatsonsoren: right10:21
sorencjwatson: The change just makes the process of distributing a VM with ssh installed in it much simpler. Currently, it needs to do various trickery to replace the host keys (so that not every instance of the vm shares their secret keys) on first install. With the change, you just remove the host keys as one of the last things before shutting down the vm and distributing it, and they'll get generated on boot.10:21
cjwatsonsoren: *nod*10:21
sorenCool. I'll whip up a patch.10:21
cjwatsonsoren: though, I still think that stands a decent chance of having the VM sit there at boot trying to gather entropy - I'd still recommend regenerating the keys before shutdown10:22
sorenErm.. How would that work?10:22
sorenI mean.. In the context of a use case where you want to create a vm image with ssh installed and distribute said image while avoiding that each instance will have the same secret key installed, I don't see how you can do the generation bit at shutdown?10:26
sorencjwatson: ^10:27
cjwatsonsoren: err, yeah, guess not10:28
cjwatsonfair point10:28
sorenUnless you freeze the vm just before shutdown and distribute that, but that would be quirky, and the entropy would be the same for anyone who fires it up, and you'd have lost anyway :)10:28
sorencjwatson: FWIW, I believe Fedora and RedHat have used this approach for a long time and it seems to work for them.10:29
sorenI'll run a few tests and see if it gets stuck on entropy starvation.10:29
pittiasac: ffox 3.0 for hardy-4?10:39
pittiasac: ^ ... alpha ...10:40
gesersoren: as you touched iptables last, would it be possible to include the patch from Debian bug #358637 to get a static library compiled with -fPIC?10:50
ubotuDebian bug 358637 in iptables-dev "libip* should be compiled with -fPIC; attempt to link the current libiptc.a binary into a shared library on amd64 causes an R_X86_64_32S relocation error" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/35863710:50
asacpitti: i will try to do mono today ... if that works well, then yes. otherwise after alpha4 ... but ill try10:50
pittiasac: what does mono have to do with it?10:52
asacmono is in main and has a gecko binding10:53
sorengeser: /me looks10:53
asacpitti: so we could not dump firefox to universe10:53
pittiasac: isn't that pretty independent of making ffox-3.0 the default?10:54
pittiasac: or you mean mono will pull in ffox to the CDs, too?10:54
gesersoren: I see that the patch is for libiptc.a but I need a libipq.a with -fPIC. I guess a similar patch might work there too.10:54
sorengeser: I've not worked my way through all of it yet, but the patch I'm looking at right now adds a libipq_pic.a compiled with -fPIC?10:55
sorengeser: ...and I can't spot any other patches in it?10:57
gesersoren: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=15;filename=003-dev_lib_fPIC.patch;att=1;bug=358637 adds only libiptc_pic.a10:59
asacpitti: haven't looked ... i would like to have transition complete in main before replacing/conflicting firefox-3.0 on firefox. if you want it the way its now, i can do it though.10:59
sorengeser: Ah, so it does. My mistake.10:59
pittiasac: I'm just concerned about doing it RSN, for testing10:59
sorengeser: If you make a patch, I'd be happy to review and upload it.10:59
geserok11:00
sorengeser: I've got an iptables upload pending anyway.11:00
asacpitti:  personally, i don't have much concerns about a lack of testing. the package is pretty mature and we have had a bunch of users for quite some time already. but i understand the concerns from the release-managers point of view11:06
asacpitti: let me try to get this mono thing done today. then we can decide11:06
asacok?11:07
pittisouds good11:08
_StefanS_BenC: you there?11:10
_StefanS_BenC: I was wondering if the acpi/hal problem that reports the double number of batteries will be fixed in the final hardy ?11:12
cjwatsonStevenK: bit early for him as yet11:12
pitti_StefanS_, BenC: you mean the problem that CONFIG_ACPI_PROCFS_POWER=y is enabled?11:12
pitti_StefanS_, BenC: (which causes hal to pick up the battery from both /proc and /sys)11:13
_StefanS_pitti: yep something like that11:13
_StefanS_pitti: yes thats the one.11:13
_StefanS_pitti: I saw it was fixed in the final 2.6.24 kernel (atleast partially)11:13
pitti_StefanS_: then we'll get the fix11:13
_StefanS_pitti: sweet. Thanks11:13
crimsunNo, it's still present in 2.6.24 final.11:14
_StefanS_crimsun: only on some systems, right?11:14
_StefanS_crimsun: I think they patched it to just return an empty list in proc11:14
_StefanS_crimsun: maybe a userspace app needs to changed (e.g. g-p-m / guidance-p-m) to make it skip the empty one (?), thats how I understood it anyways11:16
pittiseb128, thekorn: I found out why apport gets stuck in an endless loop, producing bug spam like bug 18430611:25
ubotuLaunchpad bug 184306 in totem "totem-xine-video-thumbnailer crashed with SIGSEGV in xine_list_get_value()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18430611:25
pittiseb128, thekorn: I reported it as bug 186599; any idea?11:25
ubotuLaunchpad bug 186599 in python-launchpad-bugs "fails to remove tags sometimes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18659911:25
seb128pitti: good11:25
mvosoren: is it known that the generic hardy kernel does not boot in kvm?11:27
sorenmvo: Er... No.11:29
sorenmvo: -v11:29
mvosoren: let me poke a bit more, but currently it looks like I can not boot the hardy generic kernel in my kvm (I haven't tried -virtual or -server yet)11:30
sorenWhat happens?11:30
mvosoren: not sure, the kernel hangs and the last message is "time: pit clocksource has been installed"11:30
sorenmvo: Kernel version?11:31
mvobut let me ensure that everything is up-to-date here first11:31
sorenCool.11:31
pittiHobbsee, Riddell: do you have some minutes for checking/uploading the debdiff on bug 133944?11:31
ubotuLaunchpad bug 133944 in kdepim "package kitchensync 4:3.5.6-0ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/apps/ksync/ksyncui.rc', which is also in package ksync" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13394411:31
emgentkeescook, ping11:32
Riddellpitti: the gutsy one?11:34
pittiRiddell: yes11:34
thekornpitti: hmm, looks strange, will have a closer look in about half an hour11:34
pittithekorn: awesome, thanks11:34
Riddellpitti: looks all good, want me to upload?11:39
pittiRiddell: would be great, I'll accept it right away then11:39
Riddellpitti: done11:41
* Hobbsee waves11:41
pittihi Hobbsee!11:41
Hobbseepitti: that fix should be fine11:41
* Hobbsee hugs pitti 11:41
mvosoren: my kernel is 2.6.24-5-generic and I try to boot a 2.6.24-5-generic11:44
* soren sighs heavily at git11:46
gesersoren: http://members.ping.de/~mb/tmp/iptables.debdiff is the debdiff for iptables. I've adapted the patch from the Debian bug for libipq and tested the new iptables-dev with building perlipq and nepenthes on AMD6411:49
mvosoren: same problem with the virtual kernel image it seems, let me know if I can help you further (e.g. screenshot of the hang etc)11:53
geserpitti: the delo FTBFS looks like a bug in pkg_create_dbgsym: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11490461/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.delo_0.8-2.2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz11:56
geserdo you agree?11:56
sorenmvo: I'll be all over it as soon as I manage to beat git into submission.11:56
thekornpitti: it seems that removing tags does not work for bugreport which have a 'nickname'11:57
pittigeser: yes, I do; can you please open a bug for it?11:57
pittigeser: might even be the same one as we had for that ocaml package; it's again -X11:58
pittithekorn: ah11:58
geserpitti: the file it complains about isn't -X in the dh_strip call12:01
* Hobbsee curses the evil keyboard bug12:01
* Fujitsu does too, and fails to work out what triggers it.12:01
sorenmvo: How exactly do you invoke kvm?12:06
mvosoren: kvm -m 512 -hda root.qcow212:07
sorenmvo: Ok, nothing fancy I can blame it on, apparantly. :)12:08
mvosoren: I tried -no-acpi for the fun of it, but it does not make a difference12:08
sorenmvo: Exactly which kernel version is it?12:09
mvosoren: meh, I'm an idiot, ignore me. the "problem" is that the name of root changed from hda to sda in hardy (/me is hit by the plague apparently)12:12
sorenmvo: And the UUID magic doesn't work?12:14
geserpitti: filed as bug 186610, looking at the meaning of dh_strip -X again it's an other incarnation of the same bug like in the ocaml package.12:14
ubotuLaunchpad bug 186610 in pkg-create-dbgsym "pkg_create_dbgsym fails if objcopy can't recognize the file format" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18661012:14
gesersoren: is the debdiff for iptables enough for you or should I file a bug about it?12:15
sorengeser: It's fine. It's compiling as we speak.12:16
mvosoren: yes, that seems to be the case, vol_id returns the right ID_FS_UUID number and /etc/fstab looks good too12:17
thekornpitti: I committed a fix to the .main branch of py-lp-bugs12:20
pittithekorn: many thanks! I'll apply that to the retracers12:21
mvosoren: I take a closer look after lunch12:23
sorenmvo: Awesome. Thanks.12:25
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sorengeser: Uploaded.12:26
asac_resurrectedjcastro: there?12:32
=== asac_resurrected is now known as asac
asacjcastro: oh i see you are on holidays ... enjoy12:35
pittipedro_, seb128: FYI, p-lp-bugs fixed locally with thekorn's patch and restarted12:40
seb128pitti: rock on, thanks12:40
pedro_pitti: great, thanks :-)12:40
gesersoren: thanks12:41
=== lamont` is now known as lamont
pittihi lamont12:52
lamontmorning Pici12:54
lamontpitti, even12:54
PiciMorning :p12:54
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
sorengeser: Oh, thank *you*.12:58
pittiStevenK, Mithrandir: hildon-fm-l10n promoted by your request, but please keep in mind that this won't actually give you anything but an useless empty package13:01
pittiStevenK, Mithrandir: TBH I'd much rather keep this in universe (since it doesn't make sense in main) until this is sorted out; if you prefer that, I can demote it agaih13:02
pittis/h$/n/13:02
\shbryce, ping bug #1760113:02
ubotuLaunchpad bug 17601 in xterm "[xterm] add better charclass map" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760113:02
\shpitti, what do you need from me to include some more libs to ia32-libs? :)13:03
brycehi \sh13:03
\shhey bryce13:03
pitti\sh: a list of packages and a poke to do it :)13:03
\shpitti, ok...I just need at least 2 or 3 more libs to have wine on amd64 working like on x86_3213:04
\shbryce, we introduced this change in xterm during breezy, now it's gone completly ... I re-added it...mind using it? :)13:05
bryce\sh yes it looks good13:07
\shbryce, do we have something like a bzr branch for xterm?13:12
bryce\sh nope, not for xterm13:14
bryce\sh, I believe it's contained in one of the x11- packages, I can check for you, one sec...13:15
brycehmm, nope, looks like it's a discrete package13:16
bryceso it's just a straight upload13:17
\shbryce, yepp...it went from the X packages a long time ago :)13:18
bryce\sh actually we recently re-merged them into some collections of apps.  But looks like this was retained as separate13:18
=== Hobbsee is now known as LongPointyStick
tjaaltonbryce, \sh: xterm is separate in debian as well13:21
tjaalton\sh: please push that change to debian as well13:22
brycetjaalton: any idea on why the patch got dropped?  I don't see a mention of the bug# or 'charclass' in the changelog, so wonder if it just got accidentally dropped in a sync or something?13:23
jwendellgdm in hardy is not playing the sound... is that an know issue?13:23
tjaaltonbryce: don't know, I'll check13:23
\shbryce, when I introduced the patch I wonder if I used the LP bug number these days13:24
bryce\sh ah, that could explain it too13:25
tjaaltonbryce: seems that it was uploaded to feisty in Dec. 2006, way before me :)13:25
\shbryce, ah now13:26
tjaaltonum, "before I did anything related to X"13:26
seb128jwendell: ogra mentionned it some days ago but nobody really looked at why it's broken yet13:26
\shbryce,    + Excluded patches:13:26
\sh      - charClass patch is merged to upstream13:26
\shxterm (208-0ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low13:26
\shupstream dropped it somehow13:26
\shbah it was me too ,-)13:26
jwendellseb128, should I fill a bug?13:26
seb128jwendell: if there is none yet feel free to open one13:27
ograseb128, dint you say there would be hal involved ?13:27
seb128jwendell: that's likely an upstream issue though13:27
ograafter looking13:27
seb128ogra: that was for the login sound13:27
_MMA_seb128: I think its related to the sound issues you and I had talked about.13:27
seb128_MMA_: I don't think so, gdmplay just calls aplay13:28
seb128it doesn't use libgnome13:28
ograseb128, ah, k .... i just remembered that asac had ahl probs as well and was wondering if our hal pobably starts to late13:28
jwendellseb128, maybe something related to esd->pulseaudio migration?13:28
_MMA_Ahh..13:28
seb128jwendell: not likely, it uses aplay directly13:28
jwendellseb128, ok, i'll find any related bug in upstream (when b.g.o is back)13:29
asacogra: apparently hal startup has been moved back at some point ... i had 15 here ... while other users have 2313:29
ograasac, ah13:31
asacstrange though.13:32
jcastroasac: I am around13:32
asacjcastro: good ... currently talking in #mono on irc.gnome.org13:34
_MMA_ogra: Have you done a clean Edubuntu install lately? Ubuntu Studio mirrors how Edubuntu sets things up but currently gets no login/out sounds. Im wondering if its the same for you on Edubuntu.13:35
ogra_MMA_, the edubuntu CD is going away in that form, so i dint test ... i had the prob on my classmate image which is a very specific setup and not really comparable to a normal install13:37
_MMA_Ahh... Ok. Ill have to poke around more. Maybe tie crimsun down at some point.13:37
seb128pitti: there is a hal dependency issue somewhere, I did apt-get upgrade my desktop and now hal doesn't start13:44
seb128pitti: hal has been put on hold by I guess something else has been updated that doesn't work with the old hal or something13:45
seb128ah13:46
seb128I've libpolkit 0.7 installed with policykit 0.613:46
pittiseb128: can you please give some details? it works here13:47
pittiseb128: maybe because I introduced the Breaks: of policykit-gnome and policykit?13:47
seb128pitti: no, I think it's a lack of break13:47
seb128I've libpolkit 0.7 and policykit 0.613:47
seb128I guess the lib should not be updated without policykit13:48
seb128hal error is "Could not init PolicyKit context: (null)"13:48
seb128let me get libpolkit 0.613:49
seb128pitti: bingo, downgrading libpolkit and libpolkitdbus to 0.6 fixes the issue13:53
seb128pitti: either libpolkit 0.7 should Depends on policykit >= 0.7 or Breaks policykit <= 0.713:53
pittithe latter, I think13:53
seb128ok13:53
seb128should I file a bug about it?13:54
pittiit's about as fast to just fix it IMHO13:54
seb128that's a partial upgrade issue so not high importance13:54
seb128do you have that in bzr or should I just do the change?13:54
pittiseb128: already at it (no bzr)13:55
seb128pitti: ok, thanks13:55
* seb128 hugs pitti13:55
pittiseb128: uploaded13:56
seb128excellent ;-)13:56
mantiena-baltixhi all13:58
mantiena-baltixmaybe someone knows why there are not translation templates for brasero CD/DVD burner ? brasero is in main13:59
mantiena-baltixsee https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/brasero13:59
seb128mantiena-baltix: likely because there has been no upload building a template since it has been promoted in hardy13:59
seb128mantiena-baltix: should be fixed when somebody does the 0.7.1 update14:00
mantiena-baltixseb128: it seems so, tnaks14:00
mantiena-baltixseb128: lmedinas should do that ;)14:00
seb128you are welcome14:00
mantiena-baltixlmedinas already packaged 0.7.114:01
seb128mantiena-baltix: so it just require sponsoring?14:01
mantiena-baltixmaybe, if Lois isn't ubuntu developer ;)14:02
seb128mantiena-baltix: bug #18644314:02
ubotuLaunchpad bug 186443 in brasero "New upstream version: 0.7.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18644314:02
seb128mantiena-baltix: should be uploaded soon I think14:02
mantiena-baltixseb128: I too ;)14:02
seb128I meant that it'll likely been uploaded soon since dholbach already commented on the bug14:03
mantiena-baltixseb128: btw, ppa build daemons still removes translations from debs without universe in section ?14:04
seb128mantiena-baltix: no idea about this one14:06
seb128pitti: can you also backport the change from bug #184594 to the retracer? it fails retracing some bugs and just untag those due to it14:16
ubotuLaunchpad bug 184594 in python-launchpad-bugs "AssertionError: Wrong XPath-Expr in InfoTable.parse() 'type'" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18459414:16
pittiseb128: I'd love to, yes14:16
seb128or tell me how to do it maybe so next time I can do it myself rather14:16
_MMA_seb128: Who should I talk to about Bug 186365?14:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 186365 in kdelibs "Please move xdg-user-dirs depend to "recommend"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18636514:19
seb128_MMA_: kdelibs? the kubuntu team most likely14:20
_MMA_Ok.14:20
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
Riddell_MMA_: not having xdg-user-dirs installed does bad things to kde apps14:22
_MMA_Riddell: Many apps K apps are relying on these dirs now?14:23
Riddell_MMA_: well kdelibs does14:24
_MMA_Does xdg-user-dirs do more that stick those 5 dirs in a users home dir?14:25
_MMA_s/that/than14:25
evandRiddell: indeed, he also posted to the whiteboard on ubiquity-slideshow and to the ubuntu-installer ML.  Thanks for the heads up, I'll be following up to his post on the ML.14:25
_MMA_Riddell: Does xdg-user-dirs do more that stick those 6 dirs in a users home dir? And if they rely so heavily on them, why is one allowed to remove the folders? I'm just trying to figure out what it does.14:32
Riddell_MMA_: that and xdg-user-dir to answer where the directories are14:34
bryce_MMA_ good questions; I've wondered the same14:34
_MMA_Riddell: We're getting our users doing the same thinga as Bug #158146. "From what I have seen, a lot of new Ubuntu users moves half of the xdg dirs into trash right after installation." So we just decided to not take on this package from Ubuntu. Now it looks like we're forced to because our our inclusion of a K-app.14:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 158146 in xdg-user-dirs "xdg-user-dirs should ignore ~/.Trash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15814614:35
_MMA_Riddell: If its moved to a "recommend" anyone installing from the repo should get it right? And xdg-user-dir is already in the kubuntu-desktop seed. Isnt this enough?14:39
Riddell_MMA_: maybe, looking for the bug that made me make that change14:42
_MMA_Ok.14:42
Riddell_MMA_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/17598214:44
ubotuLaunchpad bug 175982 in ubuntu "Kdesktop in Kubuntu Hardy shows / icons rather than icons from /home/'usr'/Desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed]14:44
* _MMA_ looks.14:44
\shpitti, do you have any clue about dh_strip and those error messages? BFD: /home/shermann/packages/hardy/wine/0.9.54/new/wine-0.9.54/debian/wine-dbgsym/usr/lib/debug/./usr/bin/wine-kthread: section `.note.ABI-tag' can't be allocated in segment 2 ?14:44
Riddellso it breaks kdesktop not having it installed14:45
pitti\sh: ergh, no; I never saw anything like that, I'm afraid14:45
_MMA_Riddell: Even if set as a depend in kubuntu-desktop? (I dont know if thats how you currently have it set up for Gutsy) And this is mostly an annoying cosmetic bug. Id like a better solution if there can be one but understand your position.14:48
Riddell_MMA_: two options, the proper way would be to fix our xdg patches to do something sensible when xdg-user-dirs isn't installed, an easier way would be to make xdg-user-dirs a recomends on kdelibs and a depends on kdesktop (I'd just worry it would break other kde apps)14:49
_MMA_Riddell: Yes. The latter is something like what I was hoping for as a quick solution but like I said, I understand your position.14:51
Riddell_MMA_: lets do the latter then and see what breaks14:52
_MMA_Ok. Let me know after the change if you want me to test thing. If it has to revert, I understand.14:52
_MMA_s/thing/something14:53
Riddell_MMA_: what kde app are you shipping?14:54
_MMA_Rosegarden I believe. Might be another.14:55
* _MMA_ looks.14:55
_MMA_Riddell: Rosegarden and creox. Both sound apps we've shipped for 2 releases.14:57
* soren hugs pedro_ 14:57
sorenpedro_: Thanks for checking the bind9 updates.14:57
pedro_soren: you're welcome  :-)14:58
seb128pitti: retracers fixed now15:06
pittiseb128: yay you15:06
seb128pitti: I've changed the gutsy and hardy on i386 and amd64 and verified it retraced correctly a bug which failed before15:06
=== psicus78_ is now known as psicus78
\shpitti, when do you have time to work with me for the octave3.0 transition? :)15:17
\shs/for/on/15:17
pitti\sh: what do I need to do for that?15:18
\shpitti, first, we need to sync octave3.0 from debian sid :) second, get rid of octave2.1 and octave2.9, when octave3.0 is build we need to sync some other packages, and I'll upload some more :)15:19
\shpitti, and as a third point, get rid of  koctave... there is a removal report pending :)15:20
\shpitti, there is a reference on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/octave2.9/+bug/18595915:20
ubotuLaunchpad bug 185959 in xmds "octave3.0 transition" [Undecided,Confirmed]15:20
pitti\sh: I can do that any time; just tell me what to do in IRC, and I'll do it15:20
\shpitti, cool :)15:20
\shpitti, so I think as a start, sync octave3.0 from debian sid (see bug #185653)15:24
ubotuLaunchpad bug 185653 in octave3.0 "[MoM SYNC] octave3.0 3.0.0-1" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18565315:24
pitti\sh: shall I remove the older ones now?15:26
\shpitti, nope...let octave3.0 build first...we have enough time to get rid of 2.1 and 2.915:26
pitti\sh: ok15:27
\shpitti, thx a lot :)15:27
pittiyou're welcome!15:27
cjwatsonogra: could you commit the final debian/changelog diff from livecd-rootfs 0.48, please? the changelog still says UNRELEASED15:30
pittimathiaz: hi15:34
mathiazpitti: hi !15:35
pittimathiaz: do you still plan to switch dhclient to an AA profile, so that we can drop the client derooting patch?15:35
mathiazpitti: hum... not in the short term15:35
* Mithrandir is unhappy about dropping derooting patches just because you can use apparmour instead.15:35
slangasekseb128: you said there was a new seahorse upstream pending, right?  does it fix the 64-bit issues when building with openldap 2.4 due to upstream API deprecation?15:37
pittiMithrandir: I'm not talkign about droping the dhcp server side one, that's much more robust than anything you can get with AA15:38
pittiMithrandir: but the client-side patch is horrible and still breaks things occasionally15:38
seb128slangasek: doesn't look like so, no, do you have a bug about this issue?15:38
pittiMithrandir: and besides I think the client script suid root wrapper is buggy (you can probably inject environment variables and thus circumvent the derooting)15:38
slangasekseb128: I have the ia64 w-b state for seahorse in Debian :/15:44
slangasekwell, in the build log rather - http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?pkg=seahorse&arch=ia64&ver=2.20.3-1%2Bb1&stamp=1201299907&file=log&as=raw  , last line15:44
slangasekthe issue is that ldap_init() (and many other functions) are deprecated upstream, and prototypes are only available if you specify -DLDAP_DEPRECATED15:45
seb128slangasek: can you open a bug about that? I'm busy with other things right now but I can have a look and send that upstream later15:50
slangasekseb128: yes15:51
seb128thanks15:51
\shpitti, how can I say pkg_create_dbgsym to exclude some items like dh_strip -X is doing?16:03
pitti\sh: -X is actually meant to work; however, it currently doesn't (bug 180364)16:04
ubotuLaunchpad bug 180364 in pkg-create-dbgsym "ocamlrpcgen no longer works on Gutsy. Probably a wrongly stripped binary" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18036416:04
\shpitti, well, I think wine is having a similar problem...as mentioned earlier with the ".note.ABI-tag" symbol somehow...objcopy fails and -X doesn't work ;)16:08
vrodictried running latest 2.6.24 package on a Vaio VGN-N31S, got a hang on boot with ACPI: EC: acpi_ec_wait timeout, status=0, expect_event=116:10
vrodicand ACPI: EC: read timeout, command=12816:10
\shpitti, adding some libs to ia32-libs just needs to add the i386 binary packages to pkgs/ and adding the needed source packages, right?16:19
pitti\sh: no16:20
pitti\sh: just add it to the list in fetch-and-build16:20
pitti\sh: then run that script, add changelog, upload16:20
pitti\sh: I can do it on ronne in the DC, though; the source is incredibly big16:20
\shpitti, yeah, I just need to test my theory first, so I need to add some libs to it to verify :)16:21
pittiah16:21
pitti\sh: you can verify by copying the i386 libs from the i386 debs to /usr/lib32/16:21
\shpitti, right ;) just need to think about easier ways next time :)16:22
pittibdmurray: can you please moderate my 'bugpatterns in bzr now' mail to -qa@?16:27
ogracjwatson, thats weird ...16:28
ograogra@laptop:~/livefs/trunk$ bzr st16:28
ograogra@laptop:~/livefs/trunk$ grep hardy debian/changelog |head -116:28
ogralivecd-rootfs (0.48) hardy; urgency=low16:28
cjwatsonogra: have you pushed?16:28
cjwatsonI'm at revision 16016:28
ograogra@laptop:~/livefs/trunk$ bzr push16:28
ograUsing saved location: bzr+ssh://ogra@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/16:28
ograNo new revisions to push.16:28
cjwatsonogra: oh, er, *blush*, somehow I have a hardy -> UNRELEASED diff in my local copy16:29
cjwatsonwonder how that happened16:29
ograah, phew16:29
ograwas worried alrready16:29
bddebianpitti: Hey, sorry to keep bugging you about plr but luk is now asking me if it is even worth keeping in the repo.  Do you happen to know of any users?  Do you use it?16:33
pittibddebian: I know that there are quite a few users in Debian, but no idea about Ubuntu16:33
pittibddebian: and I have never personally used it myself16:34
bddebianpitti: Hmm, OK, thanks16:34
pittibddebian: I ended up being the Debian maintainer because in ancient versions plr was built from the postgresql source package16:34
pittibddebian: I split it out, but I haven't found an interested maintainer so far16:34
bddebianAye16:34
=== _MMA1 is now known as MetalMusicAddict
=== MetalMusicAddict is now known as _MMA_
keescookoooh... that's fun -- recent gnome pops a file window for every automounted NFS mount I have.  :)16:53
seb128keescook: right, you can go to nautilus properties, media tab, and unselect the option there16:54
seb128keescook: that's the "browse media when insered"16:54
sorenIt also pops up when sbuild runs :)16:55
ion_And when my camera (which uses PTP) is connected, it opens an error dialog about not being able to mount it.16:56
ion_I’d suggest changing the default value for that setting.16:56
seb128ion_: I suggest trying to fix the bugs and making it smarter in what it mounts rather16:56
bdmurraypitti: done16:56
pittibdmurray: cheers16:57
keescookheh, but I like it when CD/DVD insert.  I need an "ignore NFS" option.  ;)16:58
\shkeescook, me needs an ignore lvm snapshot mounts ;)17:02
\shbut this key for "browse media when inserted" set to false helps a lot17:03
mdztracker is bringing my machine to its knees again17:12
MithrandirI think tracker has been bestowed on us as a compensation for the work we're doing to bring power consumption down.17:13
mdzit apparently churned all weekend, though I didn't add anything new to my home dir17:15
seb128it's buggy17:15
mdz979M/home/mdz/.cache/tracker17:15
mdzthat's >10% of my home dir :-)17:16
seb128I tend to agree that it has bugs and doesn't bring a lot and should probably not be installed on hardy by default17:16
ograubuntu hardy minimal requirements for laptops: 4Gig of ram and at least a RAID0 array with 10000rpm disks :P17:17
ograseb128, did we ever had that many probs with beagle ?17:18
ogra*have17:18
ograwe should probably just switch back to not lose features17:19
ogra(desktop searching was promoted pretty loud in gutsy, people might expect it)17:20
seb128ogra: beagle is to universe, has no maintainer in ubuntu and we basically didn't test it, I would not recommend switching right now before a lts17:23
ograah, bad ... i didnt know nobody takes care for it aymore17:23
ion_All things considered, i’ve always had a better experience with tracker. It also has the whole generic metadata DB thing, which will be teh awesome when programs start using it.17:24
ograion_, well, after gutsy release i had a lot of ltsp people complaining ... while we dont install it in edubuntu, there are setups out there where people use ubuntu-desktop in an ltsp setup with nfs mounted homedirs and 200 users logging in in the morning ...17:26
ograi bet you can imagine what tracker does to your network in such a case17:26
jamiemccogra: its designed to ignore nfs by default however there is a bug in the index mounted option17:27
jamiemccwe are working on resolving all serious bugs17:27
jamiemccmdz: do you have any details on your problem?17:28
* ogra goes for dinner and caring for his cold ...17:29
\shogra, gute besserung17:29
ogra\sh, danke17:30
ogra\sh, i'm appaernly better than the others that catched something, so i won moan :)17:30
\shogra, oh sprint flu? ;)17:30
ograjust a cold here17:30
ograothers seem to have a flu17:31
mdzjamiemcc: apart from this?17:31
mdz24644 mdz       39  19 1049m 641m 1644 S 14.9 42.3   1915:33 trackerd17:31
mdzjamiemcc: I'm not sure how to determine what it's doing17:31
mdzjamiemcc: the applet says intermittently "indexing completed" and "indexing in progress"17:31
Spenser309Can anyone tell me how to run an shell command automatically when a cd is inserted?17:32
jamiemccmdz: is anything being modified file wise?17:32
mdzjamiemcc: I'm reading mail, which means files are being moved around within my maildirs17:32
mdzjamiemcc: xchat is writing to its logfiles17:32
mdzbut the total size of the files being updated should be miniscule17:33
jamiemccmdz: yeah17:33
jamiemccmdz: what about cpu?17:33
jamiemccis trackerd consuming tons?17:33
mdzjamiemcc: it seems to take a much longer time to update the index for small changes than I would expect17:33
\shogra, huehnerbruehe should be good for that, as my grandma said :)17:33
mdzjamiemcc: right now it's holding 15-20%, but I've seen it much higher17:33
keescooksoren, \sh: yeah, I hadn't gotten to the snapshot mounting yet either.  Heh.  Maybe a "ignore paths: /var/schroot/mount, ..." option17:33
mdzit's consuming gobs of memory too17:33
jamiemccmdz: yeah its beacuse ext3 really sucks when doing lots of small writes17:34
mdzjamiemcc: is the size of my index normal?17:34
jamiemccmdz: 900mb?17:34
mdzjamiemcc: for a ~13G /home17:34
mdzmostly photos and music17:34
jamiemccmdz: for text files (source and emails) its usually no more than 20%17:35
jamiemccmdz: is file-meta.db huge?17:35
mdz 12K email-contents.db  293M file-contents.db  1.8M file-update-index.db17:35
mdz1.2M email-index.db     489M file-index.db17:35
mdz100K email-meta.db      195M file-meta.db17:35
\shpitti, looks like that I need libjack, libcapi20 and unixodbc in ia32-libs...let's see when the build is finished and hopefully when wine starts17:35
jamiemcc195MB seems a bit high - a file normally eats about 1K so unless you have 200,000 files it might be too high?17:36
mdzjamiemcc: I might, I have tens of thousands of emails17:37
mdz193001 files17:37
jamiemccmdz: thats a lot17:37
mdzI should probably exclude my maildirs; it isn't very useful to have them indexed anyway17:37
jamiemccmdz: it seems to be indexing your emails as files though17:38
jamiemccmdz: because your email-* is very small17:38
mdzjamiemcc: yes, I assumed that was normal.  is it supposed to recognize maildirs as email?17:38
jamiemccmdz: not yet - we only support evolution mbox and imap17:38
mdzjamiemcc: imap? how does that work?17:39
jamiemccmdz: i would recommend adding maildirs to ignore paths in tracker-preferences17:39
jamiemccmdz: if imap files are stored locally under .evolution we index them as emails17:39
mdzI've excluded them now, will see if that makes a difference17:40
jamiemccmdz suggest you do trackerd -R to reindex so that it cleans it up17:40
jamiemccyou will have much smaller dbs then17:40
Mithrandirseriously, does it use a gigabyte for only 300k files?17:42
jamiemccMithrandir: no worst case (if files contain a lot of metadata)17:42
jamiemcca text file has maybe a 100bytes of metadata17:42
jamiemccan mp3 might have 1kb+17:43
\shpitti, please get rid of koctave (see bug #185989) (source and bins for hardy) thx :)17:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 185989 in koctave "[REMOVAL REQUEST] koctave" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18598917:43
mdzjamiemcc: changing my preferences restarted trackerd, and now it's grinding away again, "indexing in progress" "1/2 folders"17:43
jamiemccmdz: yeah its probably deleting all the files in that ignored directory17:44
mdzmy index just grew another 50M17:44
jamiemccmdz: if you had a ton of files there its better to reindex17:44
Mithrandirjamiemcc: well, I have about 1.9M files in ~..17:44
mdzok17:45
mdzMithrandir: mostly source code? that should be fun17:45
jamiemccMithrandir: heh17:45
jamiemccMithrandir: its why we have the ignored folder setting17:45
Mithrandirmdz: mostly emails.17:46
MithrandirI have 12 years of emails, in maildirs.17:46
mdzMithrandir: my mail from pre-2003 is compressed and archived17:47
mdzbecause I never look at it17:47
jamiemccI guess i need to make sure tracker does not treat mail dirs as files17:47
mdzjamiemcc: maybe better to exclude them until they're properly supported, if that's simpler17:48
jamiemccmdz: yeah makes sense17:48
\shjamiemcc, do you actually know what could it be, that even I disabled trackerd from my gnome-session completly, that it's re-starting...even when told not to start at all? I wonder what's the trigger is, mostly it does it after upgrading17:49
jamiemcc\sh: could be activated by nautilus17:49
jamiemcc\sh: disable tracker in tracker-prefs (set watch dir to something bogus)17:49
\shjamiemcc, ok..done17:52
pitti\sh: koctave removed17:53
\shpitti, you rock..thx :)17:53
Spenser309can anyone point me to a hal example18:04
pittiseb128: oh, argh, it needs ggz-server, too18:05
seb128pitti: ups18:06
pittiseb128: I'll upload a new package with a fixed libdb dep and take a look18:06
seb128pitti: thanks18:06
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warp10Heya all!18:27
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slangasekis anyone working on bug #184585 in gnome-mount?  this seems to happen quite regularly for me on hardy :/19:31
ubotuBug 184585 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/184585 is private19:31
\shpitti, could you un-NEW octave3.0 binaries for i386 and amd64, pls? :)19:31
slangasekhrm, "private", perhaps that's its own answer...19:32
* ScottK mumbles something about sylpheed-claws-gtk2 stuck in dapper-backports NEW ..19:32
slangasekah, did pitti not get to that one?19:32
ScottKslangasek: No.  I forgot to ask for it.19:33
* ScottK forget that sylpheed-claws spawns new packages at a rate of several per release.19:34
ScottKforget/forgot19:34
* slangasek hehs19:34
* ScottK hopes that was funny enough to rate getting his package binary NEWed.19:35
slangasekI think so. :)19:36
slangasekbut first I have to un-bork grub19:36
ScottKGreat.19:37
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=== cr3_ is now known as cr3
tmccraryDoes ubuntu support multiarch?20:24
Mithrandirno20:24
tmccraryAre there any plans to support in the near future?20:25
Mithrandirnot in the near future, no.  Long-term, hopefully.20:26
daxrocEvening all20:28
daxrocIs this the channel to discuss hardy suspected bugs ?20:29
LaserJocknot really, #ubuntu-bugs might be a better place or maybe #ubuntu+120:30
daxrocThanks LaserJock20:30
tjaaltonslangasek: b.edge.lp.net doesn't like my sync requests (getting an Oops every time).. could you sync xserver-xorg-video-nv from unstable, there was a new bugfix release on Friday, includes the only patch in our package20:31
=== _MMA1 is now known as _MMA_
slangasektjaalton: any chance that b.lp.net works better than b.edge.lp.net?  I'm happy to do the sync but can't promise that my memory is longer than my todo list at the moment20:34
pochutjaalton: bug 18656420:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 186564 in malone "OOPS with edge.launchpad.net while submitting a report without an attachment" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18656420:35
tjaaltonslangasek: I bet it works there, will do20:36
tjaaltonpochu: ok, nice to know it's fixed already :)20:36
tjaaltonslangasek: done, u-a subscribed20:39
slangasektjaalton: cheers20:40
\shcjwatson, ping a question concerning your gpg key and the signatures on your subkey20:44
lamonthrm... can one Pre-Recommends, I wonder?21:00
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
slangasekhow is that going to be different than a regular Recommends?21:01
slangasekif it's a recommends, it's not enforced; so what difference if it fails to be enforced before or after unpacking? :)21:01
lamontpoint21:01
* lamont wonders what the failure mode is that caused lzma to be a pre-depends of dpkg in hardy21:01
StevenKlamont: calc21:04
ScottK2slangasek: How's grub?  Standing up again on it's own?21:05
slangasekScottK2: yeah, I'm just about to upload my changes21:05
slangasekafter a morning-long foray into setting up my first lp bzr project21:06
ScottK2Yummy.21:06
=== rzr is now known as rZr
seb128grrr tracker eating 100% CPU when the laptop is on battery21:12
seb128ah, it's broken again, the applet doesn't indicate what it's doing21:14
=== Ubulette_ is now known as Ubulette
loolseb128_: lalala tracker lalala :)21:23
loolseb128_: But you were right, one can get rid of the icon completely by removing all tracker packages21:23
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cjwatson\sh_away: pong21:56
cjwatsonlamont: dependencies of essential packages generally need to be pre-depends instead in order to enforce that the package works even while unconfigured21:57
cjwatsonhence why coreutils and libc6 are pre-depends too21:57
lamontcjwatson: yeah. OK.21:57
lamontjust makes what I'm banging my head against more painful21:57
cjwatson(gzip and bzip2 aren't there because dpkg links statically against zlib and libbz2. you probably know this but I mention it for completeness.)21:58
* lamont needs an lzma packaged package22:40
ScottK2lamont: I think python-qt4 is, but I'm not certain.22:42
lamonter. source or bin?22:42
slangaseknothing in the archive will be.  I think the test subject for lzma is OOo...22:42
lamontah, ok22:42
lamontDOH22:43
lamontslangasek: thank you for the cluebat22:43
slangaseklamont: for pointing out that there are no such packages in the archive because we're waiting on what you're doing? :-)22:43
lamontgot it in one22:43
* LaserJock wondered22:43
lamontslangasek: so, um, my python-apt is not for non-english-speakers. :-P22:45
cjwatsongrab some random small package and do dh_builddeb -- -Zlzma on it22:45
slangaseklamont: ...ok?22:46
lamontdh_builddeb -Zlzma22:48
lamontUnknown option: Z22:48
lamontcjwatson: please tell me we don't need debhelper for this... that's way scary22:49
slangasekdouble-dash22:49
lamontoh22:49
slangasekyou can do it with dpkg-deb too, I suppose?22:49
cjwatsonindeed22:49
cjwatsondh_builddeb -- OPTIONS-TO-DPKG-DEB22:49
lamontx - data.tar.lzma22:51
lamontUnpacking ed (from .../lamont/ed_0.7-1build1_i386.deb) ...22:51
lamontSetting up ed (0.7-1build1) ...22:51
lamontwin22:51
* lamont finds a certain amount of humor in gutsy's dpkg + lzma being able to unpack the .deb too22:54
lamontslangasek: in the end, my solution to python-distutils-extra was, um, a crowbar.22:59
lamontif someone cares, they can give me a patch. :-P22:59
slangasekI think caring about that is your department, not ours :)23:01
lamontgiven the target audience, ENOPROBLEM23:02
TheMusocjwatson: Thanks for the ubuntustudio seed merge, however joejaxx could have easily taken care of it.23:04
* ScottK idly mentions that someone earlier said something about NEWing something in dapper-backports after grub was fixed ...23:05
cjwatsonTheMuso: oh, I was just merging everything at once, not specifically ubuntustudio23:05
ScottK... and then runs off to untangle the necklace his 4 year old just handed him.23:05
TheMusocjwatson: Fair enough.23:05
cjwatsondue to being up to my armpits in seed reorg stuff at the moment23:06
lamontScottK: btw, 2.5.0-1 uploaded to experimental if you want to have fun with it23:06
lamont(and like see if you see any major b0rkage, etc)23:06
* milli will try out 2.5.0-1, thanks23:07
lamont   postfix |    2.5.0-1 |  experimental | source, i386, sparc23:07
lamontmilli: oh, thanks.23:07
milliどういたしまして23:09
lamontcjwatson: slangasek: lest you think we're too far along, there is still a bit of testing to make sure we didn't break anything horribly elsewhere, etc, etc.23:14
millialthough best I can do is build from source, it seems..23:14
lamontmilli: yeah.  let me get you a gutsy version?23:14
millifeisty :)23:15
lamontmilli: SLACKER23:15
million the main mail server..23:15
milliI resemble that remark!23:15
* lamont builds gutsy for his home machine first23:15
* lamont just nuked the local feisty mirror, you see.23:16
* milli is grabbing source for feisty box23:16
lamontok.  just please remember to tweak changelog to say '2.5.0-1~feisty1', mk?23:17
millivi changelog...23:17
lamontapt-get install devscripts; dch -i23:17
lamontor you could just vi23:17
lamontor we could read the manpage and see how to tell dch to get the ~feisty1 version without changing it in vi23:18
lamontii  postfix                                    2.5.0~rc2-0~gutsy1                   High-performance mail transport agent23:18
lamontheh.  I think this should wokr23:18
ScottK2dch -v23:18
* lamont wanders off23:21
jdongurr.... launchpad is not accepting my bug report?23:27
* jdong screams scandal23:27
crimsunjdong: see the topic of #launchpad23:30
jdongcrimsun: thanks :)23:31
crimsunyw23:31
jdongkk tx gl hf gg nr20 tvb no zerg23:32
ScottKlamont: I'm going to throw Postfix 2.5.0 up in my ppa.23:36
* LaserJock wonders if ScottK will throw it hard enough to break23:36
ScottKWe're about to find out.23:36
StevenKpitti: I've run ./update for -meta and it's removing restricted-managed -- baaaaad?23:38
cjwatsonrestricted-manager got renamed23:39
jdongaww I was hoping for a more sensational explanation :(23:39
StevenKcjwatson: Ahh. What's the new name, so I can check it still exists?23:39
TheMusojockey-gtk/jockey-common23:40
StevenKJockey? Oh man.23:40
bigonmmm I have a question shouldn't libasound2-plugins be installed by default to make pulseaudio works by default on hardy?23:41
StevenKWhich isn't in debian/control23:41
TheMusobigon: Um, pulseaudio gets installed and gets used by default, without the need for that package.23:41
TheMusobigon: That package has a plugin to allow alsa apps to be sent through pulseaudio however.23:42
StevenKcjwatson: Should I be worried that jockey-{gtk,common} isn't in debian/control of -meta?23:42
bigonTheMuso: aplay doesn't work without it23:42
TheMusobigon: hrm. I'd need to confirm that myself, which I currently can't do.23:42
crimsunis pulseaudio-utils in the desktop seed?23:43
crimsunif so, aplay "not working" is moot, since you can just use paplay.23:43
lamontUnable to find distroseries: fiesty23:43
lamontScottK: it's spelled 'fisty'23:43
lamontor something liek that23:43
cjwatsonStevenK: sounds odd, worth checking23:43
bigonpaplay is not installed here23:43
ScottKHmmm23:43
cjwatsonStevenK: should be showing up in desktop-recommends or whatever it is23:44
crimsunbigon: then pulseaudio-utils needs to be massaged in[to] the seeds.23:44
bigonok23:44
ScottKi before e, except after c.  I know.23:46
StevenKcjwatson: Interesting. jockey-gtk is in desktop-recommends-i386, but not in debian/control23:47
* ScottK tries again.23:48
cjwatsonStevenK: err. did you look at debian/control, or are you just grepping? :-)23:50
cjwatsonStevenK: it uses substvars rather extensively ...23:50
StevenKcjwatson: I was just grep'ing, so I'm a dork. :-)23:51
cjwatsonStevenK: that's a relief ;-)23:53
lbathncwhat programing language should one learn to program in Ubuntu23:53
Nafallopython23:53
ScottKlamont: It's in my PPA for dapper/edgy/feisty (now spelled correctly)/gutsy.  Now I wait to see if it builds.23:53
ToyKeeperHeh, generally a good choice anyway...  easy to learn, yet has a high abstraction ceiling.  :)23:53
* LaserJock recommends C++ :-)23:54
LaserJockjust to be different23:54
lamontScottK: it'll need to have had s/binary:Version/Source-Version/ in debian/control, as well as the db hackery23:54
lbathncwhy choose Ubuntu over Fedora core 823:55
lamontLaserJock: my coding is a mashup of C, python, and sh, actually23:56
lamontsh for trivial stuff, python when it gets a bit more complex, and C when it has to be.23:57
lamontor I'm working on a package.23:57
LaserJocklamont: that's about what I do, except I guess s/C/C++/ but that's sort of trivial23:57
lamontC++ is on my list of 'gonna learn that thar thang someday'23:57
lamontactually started reading a book a little.23:57
milliC++ ain't that hard23:58
lbathncwhy C++ over python23:58

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