[00:00] great :) [00:01] an fresh install has finally become 2 times faster as windows (actually, it is that for some timeI guess) [00:01] that is, the installation process I mean [00:02] hm my hardy actually needs about 2mins to start .. [00:02] from poweron to desktop [00:03] I'm around 1:20 I think [00:03] In gutsy I had a problem with the splash screen, which caused a delay of 2 min. [00:04] setting theright resolution in /boot/usplash.conf fixed it [00:04] hm i have no delay.. [00:04] ok [00:04] booting takes very long..than compiz .. [00:04] and all progs i start at login .. [00:05] right [00:06] but i dont care :P i just my linux every few weeks.. [00:07] reboot like never only on kernel update [00:07] I've laptop, but haven't got hibernate working well yet [00:07] and once in a week or sow i can wait 2 mins :) [00:07] how's compiz in hardy with flash? can you do fullscreen flash? [00:08] hm now it does ? [00:08] anyone else desktop icons stop working after todays upgrades? (kubuntu hardy KDE4) [00:08] fullscrenn flash .. ? [00:08] compiz is working for me [00:20] flipstar: now it does? <-- was that pointed to me? [00:20] yup [00:21] sounded like it would work now .. [00:21] I've only once hibernated and when it came back my screen had some strange lines and stuff, but haven't looked at it closely [00:21] have to go now, seeya [00:21] byebye :) === amblin_ is now known as amblin [01:38] When I try to access the "Network" page via nautilus, it says "Cannot display network:///" [01:40] Odd... if I disable my TPM chip in BIOS, Ubuntu won't boot. [01:40] It reaches the point where it'd be starting usplash, and then even if I have splash disabled, the system just mysteriously hangs. [01:42] DanaG: Have you tried playing with cheat codes? [01:44] Was that a joke? [01:44] DanaG: Not at all. [01:45] Try googling "Linux cheat codes" [01:47] It previously worked fine with the TPM chip in either state: enabled or disabled. [02:46] RyanPrior: I found that link in about a minute of searching on launchpad when I had the same issue. [02:46] RyanPrior: what sort of problem were you having? [02:46] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/185756 [02:46] Launchpad bug 185756 in gvfs "Couldn't display "network:///" - Nautilus cannot handle network:locations" [Medium,Triaged] [02:46] That bug. [02:46] I'm unable to access my SSH share via Nautilus. [02:47] Just do it by typing in ssh://user@host [02:47] * Pici goes back to watching his dvd [02:47] Pici: That would be fine if I just wanted SSH, but what I really want is drag-n-drop SCP with Gnome VFS support, which is what Nautilus usually gives me. [02:48] is there a reason SCP is better than SSH? [02:48] norv: SCP uses SSH. [02:48] norv: using SCP a bunch of times on the command line is a pain in the ass compared to using Nautilus, however. [02:50] quick-fix is use konqueror, if you can afford the memory/disk [02:51] norv: I'm going to try using Filezilla, but I'll give Konqueror a try if that doesn't work out,. [02:52] I wish the bug was marked as high priority, though. For people that have remote file management via Nautilus as part of their hourly workflow, having it be entirely broken is a critical bug. [02:53] yeah, that is a big problem with Ubuntu and IMO most distros [02:54] Filezilla works, so that'll be my workaround for now. Thanks. [02:55] one thing I like about KIO (what konqueror uses) is that you don't have to be a kernel hacker to write "fake" filesystem drivers [02:57] well, and the 7zip support. beats the Windows 7-zip gui, and that's why there isn't one for Linux [02:58] norv: That's if you're using KDE though, right? Does Gnome use kioslaves? [02:58] glad you got something that works, though. Can't say the same on this system [02:58] gnome uses gnome-vfs, but it's transitioning to gvfs or gio? [02:58] norv: Filezilla doesn't work on your system? [02:58] Gnome used to use gnome-vfs, and is transitioning to gvfs/gio, which is kinda the same thing. [02:58] RyanPrior: err, other problems regarding video [02:59] I think they should just use FUSE-based VFS drivers rather than their own janky systems like gvfs or kio. [02:59] Or maybe that's what they're doing and I missed it. [02:59] RAOF: are they actually two terms that are the exact same or refer to different aspects? [02:59] That's (kinda) what they're doing. [02:59] well kio can't [03:00] err, probably can now that FUSE is less platform dependent [03:00] RyanPrior: here here! [03:00] The reason why they didn't do that in the first place is, indeed, because FUSE was linux only, and Gnome & KDE both run on much more than linux. [03:00] Is it "Here Here" or "Hear Hear"? [03:01] oh right ;) [03:01] both gnome-vfs and kio are working to make something so you can mount a slave with fuse. but that's slightly different [03:01] But gvfs/gio should help this; from memory there's a DBUS API exported, which is intended to be a cross-desktop standard. [03:01] ooh... fuse mount options would be good. similar to mounted drives in os x or doze [03:02] Yeah. I think that gio has a fuse interface that can export any gio slave as a filesystem via fuse. I'm not sure if that's finished, though. [03:03] Dang, something's preventing my hard drive from spinning down. [03:03] That will be very useful, and I hope it gets well-integrated with Gnome. [03:03] I -think- it's finished in KIO. however, it pulls in lots of kde [03:03] "wmhdplop" shows little blobs every few seconds. [03:04] As it is, I'm limited largely to programs that support gnome-vfs, or writing gnome-vfs support into various programs. A FUSE frontend would be accessible to all programs. :-) [03:04] anyone know if the openchange mapi plugin for evolution is going to get into hardy? [03:05] burner: I don't believe so [03:05] bummer, i'm very excited at the prospect of working exchange sync [03:06] I doubt fuse will replace kio's own implementation though. mostly because of inertia, but how do you implement "man:" in fuse? [03:06] RyanPrior: it'd be accessible though you'd still have to mount it by hand or in another app [03:06] norv: i assume kio could be worked in such a way where fuse only has mount options for filesystems it supports... i.e. smb:// uses fusesmb [03:07] norv: You could just add remote drives to your fstab. :-) [03:07] man: would be disregarded and not allow a "fuse" connection of sorts [03:07] You could implement man:// in fuse. Nothing at all prevents you from doing that. [03:08] You can implement basically anything in fuse, period. [03:08] The real question is whether you should :) [03:08] some protocols just have a clearer need and reason for fuse support [03:08] I do agree that fuse should be used for as much as possible. but don't take away apt- frontends in the process! [03:09] Except that neither KDE nor GNOME are going to use FUSE as their backends. [03:09] fusesmb, ftp, sftp/ssh seem to be the most beneficial in my eyes... it's nice to play an mp3 through a fusesmb share with audacious :) [03:09] Because it doesn't work on !linux [03:09] Speaking of which, I've been thinking it would be neat to write a fuse frontend to apt. Browse packages by folders, double-click to install. :-) [03:10] Dagnabbit, kjournald is keeping my hard drive active. [03:10] kjournald and pdflush. [03:10] Write that journal every 5 seconds! Go! [03:11] Oh, and I fixed the "load cycle" thingy on my PC by making /etc/acpi/power.sh use APM 193 (not 1 or even 128 or even 192). [03:12] Oh yeah, is it safe to use noatime? [03:13] RAOF: doesn't fuse work on most OSes now? except maybe Windows... [03:13] From what I remember of LKML, yes. Unless you're using somithng old and broken, and then it's merely a small inconvenience. [03:14] Though I most certainly don't like the idea of well it works on linux so you should be happy, which I've seen in other places [03:15] norv: If it doesn't work on *one* OS, it can't be default - there are plenty of GTK windows programs, KDE wants to release KDE4 on Windows, etc. [03:15] OOh, Amarok for Windows sounds awesome... especially if it supports MusicBrainz. [03:15] rhythmbox works on os x :) [03:17] I know theer's some kind of Mac support for fuse, but how mature it is and whether it's compatible I don't know. [03:17] Oh, and pidgin is also doing logging. [03:18] How do I make ext3 write the journal less often? [03:18] Hmm, Hitachi drive is rated for 600 000 load cycles, I think. [03:18] I'm currently at 55097. [03:19] And I got the drive the day before thanksgiving. [03:23] damn kjournald. [03:45] So anyone knows how to isolate N *untu-desktops so they don't mix icons in one another? === antdedyet is now known as E_NOMAD === E_NOMAD is now known as antdedyet === antdedyet is now known as technomad === technomad is now known as technoant === technoant is now known as technogeek === technogeek is now known as technoant [04:13] Oh wow, this time Pidgin realized I had suspended! [04:13] I think all it took was one gconf key: for gnome-power-manager, something about networkmanager. [04:13] Wow. === RAOF_ is now known as RAOF [04:44] is the printer menu missing for other people [04:54] hi i'm trying to install hardy and i get "the installer needs to remove operating system files from the install target, but was unable to do so. the install cannot continue" [04:54] anybody run into that? [04:54] this is with choosing to format my current gutsy partition and keep the /home [04:56] Is /home really a separate partition? If not, that'd be why. [04:56] DanaG: my current set up has /dev/sda3 is / and /dev/sda5 is /home [04:57] aah. [04:57] and that's what i'm choosing in the manual partitioner, as i have been doing since edgy [05:01] yuriy: Maybe you're triggering something in the "install, but preserve /home" code that I think has been added to the intsaller? [05:09] Anyone know how I can troubleshoot why my media keys aren't working in Hardy, even though they did so in Gutsy? Gnome's key shortcuts recognizes an unique code for those keys and dmesg does not report nonexistant keys [05:11] hmm, seems like they work with numlock disabled. [05:12] apologies, looks like my issue has been reported and a fix has been committed. thanks. [05:38] i downloaded alpha 3 and that seems to be installing fine, so it's something that's changed between then and now [05:44] everything seems just like gutsy to me [05:45] no problems yet [05:45] when does the art and theme update get put into hardy? [05:48] for conributing to the ubuntu artwork and theme where do i go? [05:49] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork [05:49] there's also a mailinglist, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/ [05:50] ahh thank you. coding isnt my thing but doing something with PS or GIMP is [05:50] actually, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GetInvolved might be your best starting point :) [05:54] thanks. do you know if there is going to be a major theme update in Hardy? [05:55] Nope, I'm pretty much new to all this stuff [05:55] I think it's their intention [05:56] they're certainly looking at using a new theme engine instead of ubuntulooks, like clearlooks or murrine [05:56] which could be a big change, I guess [05:57] no idea about icons and stuff like that [06:00] ok thanks [06:24] hi, anybody using hibernate? [06:37] I use suspend-to-RAM but not suspend-to-disk. [06:38] suspend (from the shut-down menu) doesnt work at all [06:38] for me [06:38] (there's an option suspend and hibernate [06:38] ) [06:40] suspend just hangs after pressing 'suspend' [06:41] Hmm, the file that controls most of how suspend works is /etc/default/acpi-support. [06:41] Back up that file somewhere, then try mucking around with it for a while until things work. [06:41] but what is the exact difference? [06:41] Look at the VBE and VIDEO stuff. [06:41] suspend doesn't really turn off the whole power? [06:42] Suspend keeps RAM (and some other devices, such as USB port power) awake so it's fast to recover. Hibernate goes to disk, so it can power off entirely. [06:43] so I need hibernate if I want to leave home, go to work, and continue my programs [06:45] Well, suspend often uses so little power that it will last a long time on battery. [06:45] For example, I can be at 5 minutes battery left, then suspend and leave it that way for two hours or more. [06:45] aha, good to know [06:46] thx [06:46] Just be sure to save work before suspend, because it's sometimes not absolutely reliable. [06:46] I think my suspend uses < 1 W, so I could easily leave the laptop suspended on battery for 3 days [06:46] and what's your startup time? [06:47] My laptop often fails to resume on battery, oddly. In addition, even when on AC it fails about 1/4 or 1/3 of the time. [06:47] that's my primary reason for maybe digging into it, faster startup [06:47] Speaking of which, I'll try hibernate. I've never used it. [06:47] My laptop currently doesn't suspend at all, but that's due to nouveau. [06:47] nor mine :) [06:48] Oh, when I was running nvidia-glx-new, it'd suspend & resume 100% reliably. [06:48] I've ATI... [06:49] Ba baw! [06:49] my startup time is around 1:20, and hibernate too [06:49] Resume-from-hibernate probably won't take significantly less time than a full boot, really. [06:51] maybe the time-saving is in closing the lid in stead of shutting down :) === Dana1 is now known as DanaG [06:54] wcb [06:54] Odd.... [06:54] it hibernated, but seemingly didn't even try to resume. [06:55] aha [06:55] I tried to google for it, but couldn't find much experiences from other ubuntu users === Dana1 is now known as DanaG [10:02] Weird; crontab is spitting in my syslog every 9 seconds [10:04] nvm, gnome scheduler is doing sillyness === JSharp_ is now known as JSharp [11:22] kaffeine started to segfault today, is this already known ? [11:41] Can not get sun java web plugin working any help would be great have tried sunjava5 or sunjava6 to verify on javatester.org or www.java.com [11:45] packages install fine just not verifying in browser. only ones that will verify are libgcj and icedtea7 only problem with these packages don't work with ssl Explorer connect to work. [11:45] hi can someone tell me if the bug where nautilus doesn't fall back on default search if tracker is removed has been resolved please ive been searching the forums but there's no definitive answer that i can see, i dont have the data allowance to download the alpha and the closest matching launchpad bug i can see is wishlisted? [11:50] man gutsy is probably less stable than hardy at time [11:50] s === nalioth__ is now known as nalioth [13:18] Could someone point me to some information on creating a patch? I've fixed a few (very minor) bug in Gutsy & Hardy. I'd like to submit patches for them to (hopefully) speed up the inclusion process. [13:20] maybe you have more success in #ubuntu-devel or #kubuntu-devel :) [13:20] Didn't know those were around, will do. [13:22] I seem to have found a wiki entry on it, this'll do. But thanks, nice to know about the channel [13:36] !hardy > MasterShrek [13:46] has anyone experienced missing icons and problems with nautilus restartin X when it is opened recently? [14:15] the revolution will not be televised [14:30] hi can someone tell me if the bug where nautilus doesn't fall back on default search if tracker is removed has been resolved please ive been searching the forums but there's no definitive answer that i can see, i dont have the data allowance to download the alpha and the closest matching launchpad bug i can see is wishlisted? [14:36] I just upgraded to hardy, why does synaptic show firefox as local package? [14:36] slytherin: because gutsy-updates has an newer version than hardy [14:36] see "apt-cache policy firefox" [14:37] geser: Oh. Thanks. I will probably use FF3 now. So it doesn't matter much. [14:43] is anyone actually using the new drivers manager? I think it exits with some array index error [14:45] "Driver setup"? Works for me but doesn't seem to be different from the restricted manager thing [14:46] FrankQ: I get this error [14:46] File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/jockey/oslib.py", line 99, in package_description [14:46] short = lines[start].split(' ', 1)[1] [14:46] IndexError: list index out of range [14:47] I don't know, don't get it so not sure what to make of it :) [14:47] FrankQ: Do you have any restricted drivers installed? [14:47] yeah, one [14:48] jockey has errors [14:48] maybe a debianist wrote bugs [14:49] from the code, it might be choking at some description or something [14:49] because the restricted drivers are evil [14:49] i would fire a bug [14:49] file* [14:49] i'm a n00b so wouldn't know anything else [14:50] Good morning all. I am trying to get some help on sharing a cd drive. can anyone help me? [14:50] FrankQ: there is one already, I will just mark it confirmed [14:50] sharing a cd-drive? [14:51] with your friend? [14:51] I have a dvd-rw drive that I am going to use for backups. [14:51] office network === technoant is now known as antdedyet [14:52] steveO, ok and you try to share the backup media on your local computer? [14:52] Steve1: Is it windows network? I think samba would allow sharing but not sure. [14:52] I can see the Ubuntu server on the windows network, but not the dvd-rw drive [14:53] I have the drive on the Ubuntu server [14:53] install nautilus share or something [14:53] Ok,,,will research that [14:55] and listen to smashing pumpkins [15:06] heh [15:06] whats wrong with the tracker?! i got 120K audio files and it doesn't index it for unknow reasons === flipstar_ is now known as flipstar [15:16] hmm [15:16] To help dpkg-shlibdeps find private libraries, you might need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH. [15:16] dh_shlibdeps: command returned error code 512 [15:16] make: *** [binary] Error 1 [15:16] dpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules binary gave error exit status 2 [15:16] i`m up to date with hoary [15:16] and i try to install fglrx from ati site [15:16] and :( i have this erro [15:16] any idea? [15:16] should i set LD_LIBRARY_PATH? [15:16] Infecto: why install from site? [15:17] or reconfigure [15:17] Infecto: and you are actually trying to build the package not install it. [15:17] slytherin: because thats the newest version? [15:17] slytherin: yes, my fault [15:20] any idea? [15:39] Infecto: if you want to install a .deb file you should double click on it [15:42] There's a bug but I don't know which package it is caused by. The Unlock button that is found in User accounts and network Manager throws an "unexpected error" "cannot authenticate", and launching it from the terminal I can see "** (users-admin:11615): CRITICAL **: The name org.gnome.PolicyKit was not provided by any .service files" and with sudo "** (users-admin:11618): CRITICAL **: Unable to lookup session information for process '11618' [15:42] I wanted to report it btu I can't figure out enough details [15:42] slytherin: i try to build deb [15:43] i use linux console not clicking tools [15:43] Infecto: Sorry I don't use fglrx so can't help much [15:43] me too but not everyone does (also, I know this was not directed at me) [15:49] ok, it must be gnome-system-tools [15:53] heh [15:53] is those hairspray glow any good? [15:53] i saw it on the movie "coming to america" [15:54] !offtopic [15:54] #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome! === gribelu_ is now known as gribelu === marcel__ is now known as marcel === dr_fate is now known as blkorpheus [17:43] seahorse is acting up [17:43] trash bin is faulty too [17:46] +1 @ trash bin [17:47] trash:// isn't working? [17:48] or trash-applet (which may/may not have been ported to gio yet) [17:52] seahorse does what again? [17:52] !info seahorse [17:53] hrmm no bot [17:53] seahorse (source: seahorse): A Gnome front end for GnuPG. In component main, is optional. Version 2.21.4-0ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 1160 kB, installed size 10328 kB [17:53] aah there [17:53] looks pretty huge to just be a frontend [17:53] awalton__, trash app [17:55] hit, lastest svn is still gnomevfs, looks like it should be a quick port though [17:56] oop, spoke too soon, there already is a patch [17:57] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=103518&action=view [17:59] ah, great [17:59] trash bin does not get rid of all trash .. including the icon stays 'full' [18:00] icon says empty to me, tho it doesn't remove any files [18:01] and seahorse is not able to sync any key to keyserver ; cant seem to encrypt files either [18:01] i had an option on right click for encryption , its not present anymore [18:04] hello all [18:06] x86_64 resume | standby | sleep modes : unusable - screensaver is fine as long as i dont use a password [18:06] Gnine, if seahorse is using a nautilus-extension, it's going to have to be patched too [18:06] i see [18:07] i just installed alpha3 and I have 17 packages that wouldn't upgrade (not really an issue I'll figure that out) but Nautilus says that it cannot handle network: locations [18:07] network: hasn't been rewritten for gvfs yet [18:07] but you can use smb: if you need to browse samba connections [18:07] ahhh, ty [18:09] Gnine, as for your trash problem, check that ~/Trash/ is empty [18:09] will do [18:09] and for anything you trash from now on, it should be around in trash:// [18:09] check [18:10] (which is actually ~/.local/share/Trash/ but it follows the XDG spec and can/will-soon-be-able-to restore files [18:11] there are some files present in ~/.trash [18:11] yeah, if you want to kill those, just rm them [18:12] done.. worked fine for now.. trashing some other files for testing.. [18:12] there needs to be some kind of transitional code that will move files to the real trash, but it's not there yet either. [18:12] and a symlink won't work because stupid gnomevfs apps don't understand xdg-trash [18:16] test ok. [18:26] hey all... gcc seems to be segfaulting in hardy [18:26] which is annoying [18:26] is this known? [18:26] check launchpad [18:27] if you find anything.. subscribre to it.. else report it [18:29] * mtaylor grumbles at the sensible answer [18:33] okay heres something odd [18:33] i have a shell script that uses gksu .. so i normally run it .. punch in the password and im done [18:34] now.. i decided to leave it for a bit.. and it says "opening " you can stop this operation by clicking cancel [18:34] question is WHY does it want me to cancel [18:35] Er, how big are the amount of update to daily with hardy? I read that it is more than gutsy. [18:35] Martian: well, it's certainly moving "fast and furious"ly [18:36] Martian: it's way more than gutsy, but that's because it's not complete yet [18:36] a couple hundred MB daily isn't uncommon [18:36] yeah [18:36] normally every 2nd day i see around 200-400 mb [18:36] My internet would never handle that. [18:36] 55 megs so far today [18:36] Thanks for the help. [18:37] there are updates today? [18:37] yea [18:42] problem in new updates [18:43] error: pkgproblemresolver:resolve generated breaks this may be cause by the ld package [19:10] how may I install one software that stay in hardy, i use gutsy [19:11] find if theres a backport [19:25] whee [19:25] "And it turns out null-pointer dereferences are bad." [19:28] it is? [19:30] generally, yes. [19:30] you can, however, do Neat Things with them. [19:32] like crash X ;) [19:32] does coverity not consider a possible null dereference a fault? [19:33] err, their checker does flag it. [19:35] well, i dont have access to x's listings, so who knows if it was listed or not, i guess [19:51] Anyone any idea of a revision control system (That I can use one solaris and one linux server) and replicate them automatically and easily [19:55] yoza [19:59] okay i cant report stuff.. cause packages are broken [19:59] this sucks :( [19:59] eh? [20:00] we're mid-stream Evolution transition, but that's about it. [20:00] yeah thats causing my adept to NOT update [20:01] and i had a crash i wanted to report.. but adept didnt . cause it says i got old packages [20:02] trying to report as many issues as i can... [20:03] figure the more i report.. the better my chances of getting a stable release [20:05] i broke avant [20:10] broke [20:10] and i cant report :( [20:11] but you did upgrade adept ? [20:11] yep [20:12] evolution transition doesnt let me update [20:13] uhm you can by update-manager -d but i guess there is a sence by holding it back === _emgent is now known as emgent [20:13] yeah [20:13] thing is .. im good at breaking things [20:13] so im tyingg to report stuff [20:14] i may not be good in manual reports .. so something like apport is kinda required [20:14] apport is still very nice for that [20:14] ..when it works [20:15] yeah.. thats why i wanna report using that [20:32] nautilis cant handle network:// ? [20:33] Nope, and neither can it ftp://, fonts://, sftp:// and obexftp [20:34] they have upgraded nautilus to Gnome's new GIO system and basically they changed Nautilus to made use of it [20:34] but they haven't gotten to those things yet and it's not sure whether they will in time for the release :-/ [20:35] and i also get a thing with evolution messing up my upgrade ;o [20:35] The following packages have unmet dependencies: evolution-data-server: Depends: evolution-data-server-common (= 2.21.5.1-0ubuntu1) but 2.21.90-0ubuntu2 is to be installed [20:36] just do a safe-upgrade with aptitude and wait [20:39] nothing to report? [20:39] Why would there be [20:40] Well, it's what update manager tells the user to do ;-) [20:41] Dunno does it specify this channel explicitly ? [20:41] No. [20:41] I don't like it - I trust aptitude much much more [20:42] ftp:// will be done as it's a blocker for 2.22, even if everyone has to drop everything to do it.. fonts, themes may have to wait, obexftp is sitting in bugzilla waiting for completion & reviews [20:42] sftp is done, as is smb [20:42] It's been made a blocker? That's great news. [20:42] so trash:// works and thats it ? [20:42] I was pretty annoyed at reading desktop-devel and several going like "well who knows" [20:43] trash, sftp, smb, dav/http, off the top of my head are in working order [20:43] +/- some bits here and there [20:43] I take network:// is either close to working order or a blocker? [20:43] network hasn't even been started, but it should be fast like computer:// was to implement [20:43] it's a "metabackend" that indexes avahi shares and smb:// [20:44] That's good to hear. It's more hopeful than what you read at desktop-devel :) [20:44] hrmm [20:44] helps when you camp svn and talk to the devs every other day about it.. *snicker* [20:45] I wonder if gnome will get sensible randr 1.2 support for this release (Only e17 acts sanely I have found so far) [20:45] if i can understand monodevelop vs sharpdevelop. i can start making some apps :| [20:45] I'm glad people are pursuing it. I thought it was quite a severe regression [20:45] yeah, but it's so, so much nicer all around [20:45] awalton__: what is? [20:46] gvfs [20:46] whats that [20:46] not a lot is working yet, but what is working works pretty darn well. [20:46] it's the new virtual file system for gnome [20:46] deprecates gnomevfs [20:46] err.. what does that fs do? [20:46] why do you need a vfs? [20:47] allows applications aware of it to read and write to e.g. network shares, special volumes like bluetooth devices, etc. [20:48] kudos [20:48]