[11:24] <Nubae> I want to download alpha4 for testing, but which version should I download? desktop or server?
[11:26] <ogra> to test ltsp use ubuntu-alternate
[11:31] <Nubae> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all - and this?
[11:31] <Nubae> btw, ogra, managed to get fat client working, but only with a minimal xfce env. starting from the terminal
[11:32] <Nubae> the startup scripts are screwing something up somewhere
[11:34] <ogra> the edubuntu CDs shouldnt be there
[11:34] <ogra> all we will have for hardy is the addon and thats not ready yet, we'll skip alpha4 for edubuntu
[11:34] <ogra> all ltsp technology already moved to ubuntu-alternate
[11:35] <Nubae> ok, I'll give that a shot, is that basically choosing from a menu the ltsp parts, or what?
[11:36] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2008-January/003218.html
[11:36] <ogra> see the instructions at the bottom of that mail
[11:37] <ogra> the menu entry will be added after the general menu changes are done ... until them it needs a manual option
[11:38] <laga> ogra: that's great news.. makes it easier to make mythbuntu diskless clients
[11:39] <ogra> yeah
[11:39] <laga> too bad we don't have alternate disks
[11:39] <ogra> well, lets see :)
[11:40] <ogra> (if you mean in shipit=
[11:40] <ogra> )
[11:40] <laga> sorry, i was specifically referring to the mythbuntu disks
[11:40] <ogra> ah
[11:41] <ogra> oh, why dont you build alternate ?
[11:41] <ogra> i imagine a mythbuntu server is a headless machine ...
[11:41] <laga> not sure. gotta ask :)
[11:41] <Nubae> there is no alpha4 ubuntu-alternate then? just daily builds?
[11:41] <ogra> Nubae, its not released yet :)
[11:42] <laga> ogra: not necessarily. not sure if you're familiar with mythtv, but you can have server and client on the same box
[11:42] <Nubae> oh... I must be confused, thought it was
[11:42] <ogra> i tested the 20080131.2 build yesterday there shouldnt be regressions and not many changes for alpha4
[11:42] <ogra> i think its safe to grab that one
[11:42] <juliux> morning
[11:44] <Nubae> ok cool, will do then
[11:45] <Nubae> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ - the one on this page then?
[11:46] <ogra> might be that they rebuild the images ... so the current/ link might change in the middle of your download ... it usually points to the last numbered one, take that rather
[11:47] <ogra> (one dir above)
[11:52] <Nubae> ah ok got it, thanks
[11:54] <ogra> btw usually the topic on #ubuntu-devel tells if an aplha is released (if you dont read the announce mailinglists)
[11:55] <zoon> Hi guys
[11:55] <zoon> Anyone here ?
[11:55] <ogra> only 39 idlers ...
[11:56] <ogra> :)
[11:57] <zoon> :) Could anybody help me with a (I hope) dumb question ?
[11:58] <zoon> I'm wondering how I can change the clients machines once for all ?
[11:58] <ogra> nobody will know if you dont just ask it :)
[11:58] <zoon> :)
[11:58] <ogra> change in what way ?
[11:58] <zoon> setup the menus, remove items, lock stuff, for all users at once
[11:59] <ogra> install sabayon, create a profile and add all users
[11:59] <zoon> so far, all I did was change it on the server itself, and it replicated, but I need stuff as admin that I don't as user
[11:59] <zoon> sabayon is a different distro than edubuntu ?
[11:59] <ogra> right, create two profiles then :)
[11:59] <ogra> no, an app
[12:00] <zoon> ok, and sabayon will let me do that ? is it designed for schools etc ?
[12:01] <ogra> to edit the profiles it spawns a desktop in a window ... you make your changes to that desktop to your liking ... save that as profile ... every user you apply the profle to will have the desktop you defined
[12:02] <zoon> ogra, thanks a lot, you definitly helped me here, i'm going to try it right now
[12:02] <zoon> many thanks
[12:02] <Nubae> hmmm there must be a way to get my startup to work... If I can login as any user from the terminal and type startx and that brings me into a working chroot environment
[12:12] <Nubae> ogra, anything you want tested on x64? I'll have the weekend to play around with alpha4
[12:16] <ogra> x64 needs a manual ltsp-build-client --arch i386 ... post install
[12:17] <ogra> by default it can only use the packages on cd which only suffice for a 64bit client setup
[12:25] <stgraber> ogra: Looks like we have a new italc with a reworked x11vnc server, maybe that'll solve the issue
[12:27] <ogra> yay
[13:34] <sakhi> great
[13:34] <sakhi> kbye
[14:04] <stgraber> ogra: we have fixed the bug !!!!!!
[14:05] <stgraber> ogra: there are still some remaining warnings but the code now compile fine on amd64 by default + the VNC no longer crashes (and has been updated to the new version of x11vnc)
[14:05] <stgraber> so we'll have a 1.0.6 out soon
[14:30] <stgraber> ogra: UTF-8 issues fixed at the same time and I'm discussing the inclusion of the --isdport thing I did upstream so we'll basically only fix the UI and some local cmds
[14:38] <stgraber> ogra: ok, delta from upstream is now : 0 :)
[14:38] <stgraber> ogra: he applied all my patches
[14:41] <sonjag> Hello! I would like my students to be able to record using their terminals (which have mic ports) but the mic doesn't work. Is there set up or troubleshooting that I can do to fix this?
[14:41] <stgraber> sonjag: What version of edubuntu are you running ?
[14:42] <stgraber> Gutsy Gibbon (7.10) has pulseaudio which gives mic support to apps using pulseaudio (and maybe alsa too)
[14:42] <sonjag> stgraber, Sorry, should have said that. 7.04 Fiesty.
[14:43] <stgraber> ah, Feisty is using esd and then doesn't have mic support
[14:43] <stgraber> I don't know if there is a way to install pulseaudio on Feisty in the same way it's done with Gutsy, if yes that's the way you'll fix your issue
[14:44] <stgraber> you may want to speak to ogra about that
[14:44] <stgraber> or if you can, just upgrade to Gutsy (depends if that's a test network or an already used network)
[14:45] <sonjag> Great sadness. Been thinking of upgrading... this will add to the push for that! I'll see if I can find Ogra and ask him. Yes, the LTSP servers are in production but I might be daring :) Any cautions about upgrading that you would give?
[14:48] <Nubae> sonjag, or you can install a fat 'thin' client
[14:49] <sonjag> Nubae, what is a fat thin client?
[14:50] <Nubae> expand the thin client environment to make apps and devices local
[14:50] <Nubae> sometimes called diskless workstations
[14:53] <sonjag> Is that similar to allowing USB flash drives to mount and be used? I do that here. I am also able to get sound from the terminals, which are diskless workstations. Are you saying I can pass services to the microphone?
[14:54] <stgraber> what he suggest is to put a complete system in the chroot
[14:54] <Nubae> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPFatClients
[14:54] <stgraber> so it won't use the edubuntu server for the X session but start it locally as you would with a standard computer
[14:54] <stgraber> except that the hdd is network mounted
[14:55] <Nubae> yep, /home is mounted via nfs already in feisty
[14:55] <Nubae> so should be relatively easy
[14:55] <Nubae> easier than any other solution I can think of
[14:55] <stgraber> the main difference is that you'll have to update the chroot each time you want to add a software and you'll use your client's CPU instead of the server one
[14:55] <stgraber> so works well only if you have really good clients
[14:56] <Nubae> well, if he wants to use a mic, its likely its a multimedia setup
[14:57] <Nubae> also, really good clients is relative... u can install a light desktop with xfce
[14:58] <Nubae> the messy thing is authentication which u have to do with ldap
[15:02] <sonjag> I have 2 different clients: Symbiont SYM1110 and HP t5135 terms.  They have 333MHz and 400MHz processors and 128MB of DDR RAM. Are those good enuf? And I authenticate against Active Directory with winbind. Can I continue to do that?
[15:03] <Nubae> uuf... no
[15:03] <sonjag> Nubae, no, can't authenticate, or no, not good enuf clients/
[15:03] <Nubae> maybe with a minimal xfce setup, but really, those are good thin client
[15:03] <Nubae> not good enough, and yes can authenticate against AD
[15:05] <Nubae> look, if you do apt-get install edubuntu-addon-light in the chroot
[15:05] <Nubae> and maybe firefox, and gdm
[15:05] <Nubae> you'll have a really light environment
[15:05] <Nubae> so could work
[15:06] <Nubae> since u already have AD authenticating, it makes it slightly easier for u, u just have to set up the clients to authenticate against it, and prepare the chroot
[15:07] <sonjag> Nubae, seems like my best options are either Ogra can tell me how to get PulseAudio into Fiesty or I upgrade. I don't like the sound of "really lightweight" idea... sounds like I'll be limiting us.  I'm also fairly new to this (about a year) so I'm not feeling that daring!
[15:07] <sonjag> Thanks for the ideas, though. Interesting that you can do that. I'm always amazed at how flexible this stuff is.
[15:08] <Nubae> well, its early days for this stuff too, I only managed to get the 'fat' thin clients working today, heh
[15:08] <Nubae> but lightweight = expandable... it means fast
[15:08] <sonjag> I like the idea of upgrading anyway, I want to use the load balancing. Right now I physically separate the terminals for fake load balancing.
[15:09] <Nubae> you install the apps you want, but in the chroot, instead of in the server
[15:09] <sonjag> I think I'll play with that on the side... not quite ready to risk production on that!
[15:09] <sonjag> Thanks much!
[15:09] <Nubae> well, the good thing about ltsp is you can install as many chroots as you like
[15:10] <sonjag> huh?
[15:10] <Nubae> one for each environment... hell you could even run fedora, debian, and ubuntu all along side each other in different environments
[15:10] <sonjag> Like off the same server, without virtualization?
[15:10] <Nubae> ep
[15:10] <Nubae> yep
[15:11] <sonjag> is that in the same link you sent me before?
[15:11] <Nubae> no, there I'm speculating into the future, but its possible (drbl - another technology like ltsp) does it
[15:12] <Nubae> I have 4 chroots running in tandem here... one with a special ATI driver compiled in the kernel, another with xfce, another normal one and a amd64 one
[15:13] <sonjag> really interesting. I've never tried xfce... need to do that too. so much to do, so little time1
[15:13] <Nubae> sonjag, I'm almost done with a HowTo for this, I'll let u know when its up
[15:13] <sonjag> Thanks Nubae!
[15:16] <sonjag> Another question: I have a NFS server with my home folders that the app servers mount. Works great. However, I want my students to be able to see those folders from Windows. Is there something I need to do to be able to do that?
[15:16] <Nubae> nah, just share via samba
[15:17] <Nubae> system administration share folders
[15:17] <stgraber> ogra: 1.0.6-rc1 released containing most of my patches, the utf-8 patch and the fix for the network bug, I'm building it and should have packages ready for testing very soon
[15:38] <sonjag> Nubae, I'm back. Okay, you're talking about the GUI with the share folders, right?
[15:39] <Nubae> yeah
[15:40] <sonjag> Slick. I'll go try it.
[15:55] <stgraber> ogra: test packages are up : http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/
[15:56] <stgraber> ogra: if we don't find a bug, 1.0.6 will officially be released next week so we can use a proper upstream version
[17:10] <stgraber> RichEd: we have a working iTalc !!! (in case you haven't read what I said a bit before)
[17:35] <sonjag> Nubae, I tried making a shared Windows folder, but I can't browse to it from Windows. Any suggestions?
[17:46] <LaserJock> ogra, RichEd: it seems we may get our gutsy gcompris translations Mondayish
[18:07] <stgraber> ogra: new italc works except the demo mode which is a known bug by upstream and will be fixed soon
[18:37] <ogra> stgraber, awesome news
[18:37] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:37] <ogra> LaserJock, likewise :)
[18:38] <LaserJock> hopefully this works
[18:38] <ogra> better than TCM in any case
[18:38] <LaserJock> I'm currently checking the .po from rosetta against the one in the gcompris source
[18:38] <ogra> and independent of ltsp
[18:38] <ogra> oh, you mean the translations
[18:38] <ogra> sorry
[18:39] <LaserJock> downloading the the rosetta translations took 193MB and gcompris source is 86MB
[18:39] <ogra> phew
[18:39] <LaserJock> ogra: heh, I'm more optimistic about italc than translations ;-)
[18:40] <ogra> well, for hardy its fixed you said
[18:40] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:40] <ogra> gutsy is a nice to have ...
[18:40] <LaserJock> but bbdoin said that it was causing big problem in France
[18:41] <LaserJock> since he was trying to get it into schools
[18:41] <LaserJock> but he put up a wiki page with a workaround
[18:41] <ogra> right, we should fix it i didnt say we shouldnt :)
[18:41] <ogra> but freezes are higher prio for me atm
[18:42] <LaserJock> well, I told gcompris-devel it'd be fixed like in November, so I'm a little embarrassed it's taken this long
[18:42] <LaserJock> but yeah
[18:42] <ogra> where is it stuck ?
[18:42] <LaserJock> well
[18:42] <LaserJock> apparently Launchpad was eating it or something
[18:42] <ogra> hrm
[18:43] <ogra> not a great advert for LP
[18:43] <LaserJock> I kept bugging carlos and he got it fixed recently
[18:43] <LaserJock> and then I talked to pitti and it looks like they are in the latest translations tarball he has
[18:43] <ogra> yay
[18:43] <LaserJock> I just want to make sure it's using the right ones
[18:44] <LaserJock> because the stuff on Rosetta is totally wrong
[18:44] <LaserJock> it's not a great advert at all for Rosetta/lang packs because gcompris is better translated usptream I think and we totally lost that
[18:47] <LaserJock> ah crap, and I got the wrong gcrompis :/
[18:47] <LaserJock> I shouldn't try to work with translations while sick :-)
[18:49] <ogra> yeah
[20:50] <stgraber> ogra: around ?
[20:51] <stgraber> ogra: What should I test with Edubuntu for Alpha4 ?
[21:39] <calimer-> LaserJock feel better
[21:39] <calimer-> and I submitted an e-mail to the edubuntu mailing list today, wooo!!!
[22:53] <guillaume> hi
[22:53] <guillaume> anybody online?
[22:53] <LaserJock> perhaps
[22:53] <guillaume> ok am i the only one with a broken chroot?
[22:54] <guillaume> recently both my edubuntu server cant upgrade the chroot
[22:54] <guillaume> apt-get install does not work either
[22:55] <guillaume> my clients boot fine but I wanted to install some drivers that required git
[22:55] <guillaume> tryed apt-get install git-core but errors started popoing up
[22:55] <guillaume> then tryed to upgrade and same errors poped up
[22:56] <LaserJock> can you pastebin the errors?
[22:56] <guillaume> hmmm pastebin
[22:56] <guillaume> what and where is pastebin
[22:56] <LaserJock> !pastebin
[22:56] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[22:57] <guillaume> ok im on it
[22:59] <guillaume> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54395/
[23:00] <guillaume> there you are
[23:01] <LaserJock> interesting
[23:01] <LaserJock> it's not wanting to install the kernel update
[23:01] <guillaume> this server is a dual xeon (8cores) with 8gb with the 64 bit edubuntu GG
[23:02] <guillaume> ya
[23:02] <guillaume> and my other server is a simple intel core 2 duo with 3 gb with the 32 bit edubuntu and get the same error
[23:02] <guillaume> this install is fresh from yesterday
[23:03] <guillaume> its like dpkg was broken
[23:03] <guillaume> I tryed reconfiguring dpkg and it seems ok
[23:03] <LaserJock> well, it doesn't like that it can't do the update right
[23:04] <LaserJock> dpkg itself isn't broken
[23:04] <LaserJock> but it's left the system in a non-happy state
[23:05] <guillaume> ok
[23:05] <guillaume> line 83 is suspicious
[23:05] <guillaume> Cannot open ``/boot/nbi.img-2.6.22-14-386'':File exists
[23:06] <LaserJock> yeah, basically it tries to run /etc/kernel/postrm.d/ltsp-update-kernels
[23:06] <LaserJock> and that dies on that
[23:06] <guillaume> hmm of course
[23:06] <guillaume> can it update kernels from inside the chroot?
[23:07] <LaserJock> well, I'm wondering if that's the problem
[23:07] <LaserJock> it's meant to be done *outside* the chroot
[23:07] <LaserJock> and so it's dying when it's run inside
[23:07] <guillaume> yep
[23:07] <guillaume> hmmm
[23:08] <guillaume> so the script is broken
[23:08] <LaserJock> I don't have LTSP installed here so I'm flying blind but let me check something real quick
[23:09] <guillaume> thanx
[23:09] <guillaume> I could install a nx server and give you an account
[23:10] <LaserJock> nah, we're not that desperate yet ;-)
[23:10] <guillaume> lol
[23:16] <LaserJock> well hmm
[23:17] <LaserJock> it looks like it should be running update-kernels instead of ltsp-update-kernels
[23:18] <guillaume> hmm I could try that
[23:18] <guillaume> where is the script residing
[23:19] <LaserJock> hmm
[23:19] <LaserJock> what if you get out of the chroot and run ltsp-update-kernels and then go back in
[23:19] <guillaume> well it works but apt-get upgrade will fail again
[23:20] <guillaume> Cannot open ``/boot/nbi.img-2.6.22-14-386'':File exists
[23:21] <guillaume> guillaume@poweredge:~$ sudo ltsp-update-kernels
[23:21] <guillaume> [sudo] password for guillaume:
[23:21] <guillaume> Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386
[23:21] <guillaume> Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/amd64
[23:21] <guillaume> guillaume@poweredge:~$
[23:21] <guillaume> sorry for second last post
[23:22] <guillaume> ok there are 2 scripts ltsp-update-kernels
[23:22] <guillaume> one in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/kernel/postinst.d
[23:22] <guillaume> other in postrm.d
[23:23] <LaserJock> k
[23:24] <LaserJock> now it's actually update-kernels in the chroot that is what's been called
[23:24] <LaserJock> those should be symlinked to /usr/lib/ltsp/update-kernels in the chroot
[23:26] <guillaume> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54396/
[23:26] <guillaume> here is the script
[23:29] <LaserJock> boy, I don't know what line it's having problems with
[23:31] <LaserJock> guillaume: I don't see an open bug report on this
[23:32] <LaserJock> guillaume: you might file a bug report and/or email edubuntu-users
[23:32] <guillaume> ok
[23:32] <LaserJock> I think this will require Oliver or somebody more familiar with the script
[23:32] <guillaume> but I was wondering because both my different systems do that
[23:32] <guillaume> thank you for your help
[23:33] <LaserJock> yeah, I think maybe it could be a general problem
[23:33] <LaserJock> as we just got a newish kernel in 7.10 it could be that you're the first to encounter the problem
[23:33] <guillaume> ya the user base is not that big and poeple rarely upgrade the chroot
[23:34] <LaserJock> yeah, if it was the server itself I bet there would be more reports
[23:34] <guillaume> Is Oliver online at known times?
[23:35] <LaserJock> yes, he's in Germany
[23:35] <guillaume> ok
[23:35] <LaserJock> ogra: you might want to look at guillaume's problem here ^^ when you're awak
[23:37] <LaserJock> guillaume: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bugs is the place to look for or file bugs for LTSP
[23:38] <guillaume> ok
[23:38] <hyperactivecrond> Does edubuntu currenty implement a student scheduling system?
[23:39] <LaserJock> not out of the box no
[23:39] <LaserJock> it's something we'd definitely like to have
[23:39] <LaserJock> but it's hard to find good/secure/maintained/supportable/free apps for it
[23:40] <hyperactivecrond> yes
[23:40] <LaserJock> we used to have SchoolTool
[23:41] <hyperactivecrond> i tell ya, if a company wants to make money, they should sponser an open-source scheduling program and provide support for it for a fee
[23:41] <hyperactivecrond> Programs like WinSchool (currently popular) charge yearly
[23:41] <LaserJock> but SchoolTool had some problems, hopefully we'll get it back
[23:42] <hyperactivecrond> see a big problem with this sort of programs is that MySQL isn't terribly good at this kind of stuff
[23:42] <hyperactivecrond> for example: we'd need a new table every day for absentees
[23:42] <hyperactivecrond> and a lot of tables in a database can slow it down, and MySQL isnt terribly fast
[23:43] <hyperactivecrond> A sorting algorithm would have to be written
[23:43] <hyperactivecrond> Everything would have to be tied into a nicer GUI
[23:43] <hyperactivecrond> well at least a learnable one
[23:45] <hyperactivecrond> I know with WinSchool, in theory, when a schedule sort is done, ~60% of the schedules are correct
[23:45] <LaserJock> you should have a look at SchoolTool
[23:46] <hyperactivecrond> see everything still needs to be done by hand.
[23:46] <hyperactivecrond> Even with a smaller, Catholic high school of about 800 students, the inputable time is not feasable
[23:48] <hyperactivecrond> for creating schedules
[23:48] <hyperactivecrond> although, it'd still be more accurate probably </tongue in cheek?
[23:48] <hyperactivecrond> eh HTML parse error there. s/?/>/g
[23:50] <hyperactivecrond> It looks like an interesting project if it ever takes off