Tonio_Riddell: I get lost, it looks like a combinason of issues in fact00:04
Tonio_Riddell: the deadlock issue seems due to line 30, but doesn't happen if you comment line 22....... I'm lost00:05
Nightrosemi: I got the same problem sometimes00:07
Nightrosebut on my whoe screen00:07
RiddellTonio_: runs for me00:10
Tonio_Riddell: works for you ?00:10
Tonio_hum it looks like my installation needs to be freshed up a bit ;)00:11
RiddellTonio_: oh, do you have oxygen installed?00:11
Tonio_Riddell: lemme look00:11
Riddellsudo rm /usr/lib/kde4/lib/kde4/plugins/styles/oxygen.so00:11
Tonio_is that supposed to change something ?00:12
Riddellit'll stop QtDbus being loaded00:13
Tonio_damned that fixed the issue00:13
Riddellyeah, it's a qt bug, had me tearing my hair out for a week00:13
Tonio_Riddell: you are a genius..... finding that a kde4 theme library can cause a python qt4 scrip to fail........00:14
Tonio_Riddell: thanks for the fix ;)00:14
Tonio_Riddell: will read this thanks00:15
Riddell    args = sys.argv + ["-style=plastique"]00:16
Riddell    app = QApplication(args)00:16
Riddellthat'll fix it00:16
Riddellor workaround rather00:16
Tonio_Riddell: I'll upload with that workarround waiting for that to be fixed thanks00:18
Tonio_the stupid thing is that this script doesn't display any qt window ;)00:19
Riddellthere should be a way of telling it that it's not a GUI app00:19
Riddellprobably an argument to QApplication00:19
Tonio_Riddell: well Qapplication is part of QtGui right ?00:23
RiddellTonio_: yes but I seem to remember there's a way of telling it that it's not really a GUI app00:28
Tonio_from PyQt4 import Qt00:29
Tonio_Riddell: instead of QtGui00:29
Tonio_that might work, I'm giving a try00:29
mikde4 don't have in effects loose binding for nvidia ....that is reason why effects is not good here00:30
minvidia bad supported in kde400:30
Tonio_mi ati too :)00:31
mimaybe kde-dev team visit compiz-dev ...lol00:31
Tonio_Riddell:  For non-GUI Qt applications, use QCoreApplication instead,00:32
RiddellTonio_: voila00:33
Tonio_Riddell: but then "isrestoredsession" fails......00:33
Tonio_AttributeError: isSessionRestored00:33
Tonio_I need to investigate in the docs00:34
Riddellnothing wrong with ["-style=plastique"]00:35
Tonio_Riddell: hum, am I wrong saying that if we use coreapplication it might not restore an then there is no need for that test ?00:35
RiddellI've no idea00:36
Tonio_I'll test00:36
Tonio_Riddell: good news also is that with the help of mhb and toma we are not that far to have a kdesudo-kde4 working00:50
Tonio_Riddell: atm it works except fails when sudo has some cached passwd, due to X errors00:50
Tonio_Riddell: I have to get the kcookie thing to work correctly and use a /tmp copied Xauthority file00:51
Tonio_Riddell: once that done hopefully we can release a preliminary version00:51
Tonio_Riddell: bad news is that I may not have time to finish the apt:/ protocol before the feature freeze......00:52
Tonio_Riddell: I'll do my best to make it a bit better before then00:53
Tonio_Riddell: on the other hand the repos addition isn't widelly used, and the main functionnality work (adding, removing packages)00:53
Tonio_trying kblueplugd fixed00:53
Tonio_Riddell: confirmed a qcoreappllication doesn't restore, I'll upload the fixed package01:01
Tonio_Riddell: thanks for the help ! :)01:01
cheguevaraanyone uses mono by any chance01:22
ScottK2cheguevara: RAOF in #ubuntu-motu01:56
cheguevarathx ScottK02:02
cheguevaraooh 4.0.1 tarballs are being uploaded02:45
cheguevarathere was a problem with kde-l10n generation so I have to redo them and02:46
cheguevaraupload later today.02:46
=== Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee
miwhen will see this changes in repo?04:31
=== Hobbsee` is now known as Hobbsee
nixternalhacking under the glow of LED is whicked elite..I feel like I am working in some underground bunker for some corrupt government05:38
nixternalim in your cabinets eatin your captain crunch05:38
nixternalfinally woke up from my over-the-counter drugged up stuper05:39
davmor2Riddell: has the release gone out yet?09:04
nixternaleveryone is just getting about that works on the release, so expect it in the next few hours as long as there aren't any hiccups09:05
* nixternal finally beds09:05
_StefanS_kwwii: can we use the oxygen iconset in kde3, now that its formally released?09:19
_StefanS_probably a longshot ;)09:19
_StefanS_ie. not likely.09:19
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
=== kblizzzek is now known as blizzzek
Riddelldavmor2: no, there's still a problem in the installer10:26
davmor2Riddell: which installer?10:26
Riddelldavmor2: ubiquity10:27
davmor2(back is a bit better so wanted to know if I was too late to test stuff )10:27
Riddellbut 18614710:27
davmor2turns out not by a long shot :)10:27
davmor2bug 18614710:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 186147 in ubiquity "ubiquity "failed to remove conflicting files"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18614710:28
Lure_StefanS_: you can, but you need to rename back to old naming scheme - not sure if anybody did that already10:28
_StefanS_Lure: someone from archlinux did that..10:28
_StefanS_Lure: and it works great.10:28
Lure_StefanS_: so it should be easy to prepare kde3 package for ubuntu10:28
davmor2bit of an issue then10:29
Lure_StefanS_: any links?10:29
_StefanS_Lure: two secs10:29
* Lure would work on this as does not like kde3 kontact with old icons10:29
davmor2does this mean I may as well stop testing cause they'll be another version to download any time soon?10:29
_StefanS_Lure: I'm talking about replacing the default crystal icons with these for hardy10:30
_StefanS_Lure: if kwii likes it..10:30
Lure_StefanS_: we could discuss, but at least having it as option would be great10:30
* _StefanS_ really dislikes crystal.10:31
_StefanS_ah mepislovers :)10:32
_StefanS_not archlinux heeh10:32
_StefanS_Lure: http://www.mepislovers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13239&page=210:33
kwwii_StefanS_: I would rather not (and it would be a lot of work anyway)10:33
_StefanS_kwwii: uhm atleast I can dream :)10:33
_StefanS_kwwii: well, I'm trying to mock up something now10:34
_StefanS_kwwii: first thing would be to remove that awful (imho) fractal background...10:34
Riddelldavmor2: we have a likely fix for ubiquity, the question is if I can get it in or do we need to wait for the americans to wake up10:34
davmor2Riddell: harsh :)10:35
davmor2Riddell: So the big question.  Do I carry on burning the Images I've downloaded or not?10:37
Riddelldavmor2: alternate ones yes, desktop ones well all testing is good but they'll likely be new ones at some point today that need testing too10:38
davmor2right I'll stick with alts for now then10:38
_StefanS_kwwii: I guess we will have to stick to the blueish scheme ?10:40
kwwii_StefanS_: well, unless someone comes up with something that everyone thinks is better, yes10:42
_StefanS_kwwii: ok10:42
_StefanS_kwwii: the default size of the wallpapers, should that be 1920x1200, or smaller?10:46
_StefanS_kwwii: Ie. the "max" size we're expecting to have without it getting scaled.10:47
kwwii_StefanS_: it should be at least that size or bigger10:47
_StefanS_kwwii: oka10:47
_StefanS_kwwii: 4:3 or wide?10:47
kwwiiboth, preferably10:47
_StefanS_kwwii: afaik we cant determine that, right?10:47
_StefanS_kwwii: could you make a version of the edgy buttons where the top looks like the bottom, so the minimize/close doesn't fade out in the top?11:06
kwwii_StefanS_: erm, we do have an svg of the icons and the gimp file used to finalize them...not sure if I have enough time though11:07
kwwii_StefanS_: if you want the files let me know and I can send them to you11:07
_StefanS_kwwii: ok send them my way then11:08
_StefanS_Riddell: it seems like the all black text for kdm wasn't added to alpha4 (date is still grey, and difficult to read)11:10
Lurekwwii: did you do battery icons for oxygen or was that nuno?11:27
Riddellgrep StatusColor /usr/share/apps/ksplash/Themes/kubuntu/Theme.rc11:29
RiddellStatusColor = #00000011:29
Riddell_StefanS_: ^^11:29
kwwiiLure: the newest ones are from nuno11:35
Lurekwwii: I would need mouse/keyboard overlay (similar to AC), for battery/keyboard battery presentation11:40
Lurekwwii: will talk with nuno then11:40
_StefanS_Riddell: the splash is fine, the kdm decoration is the one I mean11:47
_StefanS_Riddell: its also the only one with a date :)11:47
mhbgood mornin11:53
mhbRiddell: # to you, too11:56
SlimGWhat's the reason for making D3lphin the default filebrowser? imho Konqueror does a great job at that already12:12
RiddellSlimG: dolphin is focused on file management, you can still use konqueror12:15
SlimGRiddell: So it has features not yet implemented in Konqueror?12:16
SlimGadvanced features I assume12:16
Riddellit has a simpler user interface12:16
SlimGMkay, I seem to understand that new users (or most users even) prefer separate filemanager and webbrowser to avoid confusion, I just thought more people shared my interpretation of simplicity :)12:25
_StefanS_hmm just found a bug in dolphin related to fish..12:25
hadsThere's a couple o' bugs in 3, 4 is nicer.12:26
_StefanS_kwwii: I patched the kwin style to allow the shadows only on the active windows: http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot1.png12:27
_StefanS_kwwii: which is alot better than the current "double" text on inactive windows12:27
kwwii_StefanS_: cool, looks nice12:36
_StefanS_kwwii: I will experiment with qtcurve now12:37
_StefanS_kwwii: donno about the background, I cant seem to find something blue that is nice12:37
kwwii_StefanS_: actually lots of people like the current wallpaper12:38
_StefanS_kwwii: the fractals ?? 1996.. ?12:39
mhbI've heard some, but not lots12:41
kwwiimhb: I have heard quite a few more likes than disklikes12:42
kwwiiin the end, whatever is chosen by the majority wins, naturally12:42
_StefanS_kwwii: this is how it would look with oxygen on it : http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot2.png12:42
kwwiipersonally, I would prefer not using oxygen in kde312:43
_StefanS_kwwii: I know, but just to show you12:43
Riddellusing oxygen in kde 3 would make all the oxygen artists grumpy, we don't want that12:46
_StefanS_yes they will probably be kinda irritated.12:47
_StefanS_kwwii: how long would it take for you to fix those buttons I talked about?12:47
_StefanS_kwwii: thing is, I'm not that confident in gimp12:47
kwwii_StefanS_: if i knew *exactly* what I wanted to do it would take a day or so12:48
_StefanS_kwwii: uhm ok, we dont want to you use a day doing just that :) - I will try12:48
kwwii_StefanS_: I might find time to take a swing at it but right now I cannot promise12:52
_StefanS_kwwii: I'm doing it now, no worries. Also I dont know if it will look good. So dont waste your time12:52
_StefanS_Riddell: I will prepare a patch for kwin-style-crystal where the textShadow only affects active windows, if thats okay?12:53
Riddell_StefanS_: I don't see any shadow on the text12:53
Riddellinfact you seem to have a slightly different theme than I'm seeing12:54
_StefanS_Riddell: err.. if you enable textshadow in hardy you will find the inactive windows having a double sort of shadow that looks awful. Its because the inactive window texts are black12:54
Riddell_StefanS_: oh, so this is only to help people who enable it by default?12:55
_StefanS_Riddell: well I hoped, if we could agree to enable shadow by default in the active windows :)12:55
_StefanS_Riddell: does alot to the readability on the active windows.12:56
Riddell_StefanS_: go ahead then12:57
kwwiione thing that we should do is decide what to set in qtcurve12:57
_StefanS_Riddell: ok cool12:57
_StefanS_kwwii: yes ofcourse, I will experiment with that, and come up with more or less conversative ideas12:57
_StefanS_kwwii: and you guys can have a look at it.12:57
Hobbseewe're going for qtcurve?12:58
_StefanS_Hobbsee: well only if I can make it look good, and everything likes and so on..12:58
_StefanS_Hobbsee: likes it12:59
_StefanS_Hobbsee: just a my two cents basically.12:59
kwwiiHobbsee: I think it would be a good time to switch (and qtcurve is pretty nice)13:01
Hobbseekwwii: i was never overly impressed with it, but it may well suit kde4 better than kde313:02
Hobbseeand, people can probably make it looked good - i only explored the defaults13:02
_StefanS_Hobbsee: it can look really nice13:08
jpatrickguten tag allee13:14
Hobbseetag, jpatrick.  Wie gehts?13:20
_StefanS_Riddell: I just sent you the patch for kwin-style-crystal13:21
jpatrickHobbsee: sher gut, und dir?13:33
Hobbseejpatrick: ja, gut.13:34
jpatrickHobbsee: kannst du zu Debian upload machen?13:36
cheguevaraHobbsee, i heard intel is going to be reverted to XAA again?13:37
Hobbseejpatrick: nein, ich ein DD nicht.13:37
* allee suggest for next meeting: rename #kubuntu-devel to #kubuntu-devel-de13:37
Hobbseecheguevara: i think that's the plan, yes13:37
Hobbseeallee: if only i could speak it better...13:37
cheguevaraHobbsee, do you think there's any possibility of convincing X/kernel teams to merge the new drm modules13:38
cheguevarareleasign an LTS with XAA is not good13:38
alleeHobbsee: was schreibst du?  Ich verstehe kein Englisch mehr ;)13:38
* jpatrick suggests allee take a look at http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=kde-style-domino13:38
blizzzekallee: in the current germen chans, the -de comes right after kubuntu, and the the other part, e.g. #kubuntu-de-offtopic13:38
Hobbseeallee: :P13:38
Hobbseejpatrick: i have commit rights to debian-qt-kde, as does allee13:38
Hobbseecheguevara: has debian done so yet?  last i knew, they were waiting on debian13:39
* allee has first to get FAI running :(13:39
jpatrickHobbsee: I know, something I have yet to gain13:39
cheguevarameh ubuntu kernel development is not really in line wtih debian13:39
Hobbseecheguevara: the X stuff, in particular13:39
cheguevaraX stuff doesn't need any changes its the kernel13:39
cheguevarai am building a kernel with the needed modules atm to see how it performs13:40
alleejpatrick: I'm not a DD or MOTU.  So not much I can sponsor at all13:40
jpatrickallee: ah, okay, endschdiung13:42
_StefanS_kwwii: http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot3.png , let me know what you think..13:42
Nightrosea friend of mine needs flash in konqueror for her work (she is doing website stuff for nestle and needs to test in konqueror) - and I remember that flash in konqueror was broken - is that fixed yet and if not can you tell me when it is expected to be fixed?13:43
buzworks for me13:44
buzin hardy13:44
buzdid so in gutsy13:44
Nightrosehmm my flash in gutsy is b0rked in konqueror :(13:44
_StefanS_Nightrose: I think Riddell just uploaded a new flashplayer ..13:44
Nightrose_StefanS_: that would be awesome13:44
buzin konqueror3 it definitely works13:44
buzin konqueror4 it seems broken13:45
_StefanS_buz: most stuff is.13:45
buzthats true13:46
Nightrose_StefanS_: thx a lot - will tell her13:46
_StefanS_I noticed it didn't work, but havent checked out what might cause it13:46
_StefanS_Nightrose: well, you should ask Riddell himself to be sure though ;)13:46
Nightroseyea /me uses kde 4 so it might be due to that13:47
buzNightrose: try /usr/bin/konqueror instead of konqueror-kde413:47
Nightrosebuz: will do to check - but really I use firefox most of the time anyway because of the extensions13:48
Nightroseso doesn´t bother me much13:48
buzi like konqueror13:53
buzits faster than firefox13:53
buzbut firefox is more accepting of broken websites13:53
ScottKbuz: For Konqueror that's a feature, not a bug.13:54
buzi wasnt complaining13:54
kwwii_StefanS_: nice...one thing to think about: the gloss on the window deco should match the gloss on the widgets13:54
RiddellNightrose: it depends on what version of flash you have13:54
buz(but i'm in favor of webkit while we're at it)13:54
_StefanS_kwwii: yep, I will try that13:54
NightroseRiddell: ok which one should she have?13:54
_StefanS_kwwii: http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot4.png ?13:56
kwwii_StefanS_: close, but it still needs a bit more love13:57
_StefanS_kwwii: probably :) - what areas?13:57
kwwii_StefanS_: the lightlight part of the gloss needs to be the same13:57
_StefanS_kwwii: okay13:57
_StefanS_kwwii: well on the buttons ?13:58
kwwiiin that screenshot the window deco has a line at which the gloss stops, the qtcurve stuff doesn't13:58
RiddellNightrose: it depends how she's installing it13:58
RiddellNightrose: updates for konqueror are going into gutsy-proposed today13:59
kwwii_StefanS_: looks pretty good13:59
NightroseRiddell: I assume she did everything via adept (she is new to linux and kubuntu)13:59
_StefanS_kwwii: to mimic the looks of the widgets/buttons we need to make a new overlay for the windeco it seems14:02
_StefanS_kwwii: using just "Glass" is what I'm doing now14:03
kwwii_StefanS_: right, exactly14:07
RiddellNightrose: she should enable gutsy-proposed "proposed updates" and install flashplayer-nonfree sometime tomorrow14:09
_StefanS_kwwii: also the buttons is causing me problems :( - So maybe you could fix them ? the lower half of the kubuntu edgy", I made this (ugly) mockup: http://enhance-it.dk/buttons.png14:09
NightroseRiddell: perfect thx14:09
_StefanS_kwwii: they way they are now is making the buttons look "unfinished"14:10
kwwii_StefanS_: right14:10
kwwii_StefanS_: we used a version like that before gutsy14:10
_StefanS_kwwii: I know, but it didn't have the transperancy going like the current ones14:10
_StefanS_kwwii: newer ones are nicer14:11
kwwiiI'll see how much time I have14:11
_StefanS_kwwii: cool, prefs for the style is here: http://enhance-it.dk/kubuntu-new.qtcurve14:12
kwwiiI really like this wallpaper: http://djmattricks.deviantart.com/art/Aquapattern-4651638014:18
_StefanS_kwwii: yes thats pretty cool14:19
_StefanS_kwwii: should ask the guy if we can use it?14:19
kwwiicouldn't hurt14:20
_StefanS_kwwii: okay14:20
_StefanS_kwwii: dont know how it would work with the current kubuntu colors on the deco though..14:20
kwwii_StefanS_: well, we would have to change them then ;-14:21
_StefanS_kwwii: yes, I was just thinking that it might become way too light..14:21
Riddell_StefanS_: it would need to be not noncommercial14:21
_StefanS_Riddell: okay.. maybe he could change it from creative commons then14:22
Riddell_StefanS_: CC is fine, just not noncommercial14:23
_StefanS_Riddell: CC 3.014:23
Riddellwhat about it?14:24
_StefanS_well its version 3.0.. maybe you knew something I didnt :)14:24
_StefanS_havent really explored those licenses and what they stand for14:24
_StefanS_kwwii: seems kinda hard to get his email14:25
Riddell14:23 < Riddell> _StefanS_: CC is fine, just not noncommercial14:25
_StefanS_Riddell: yes I saw it the first time :)14:25
_StefanS_Riddell: can we use it without asking then ?14:25
Riddell_StefanS_: no, since it's noncommercial14:25
_StefanS_kwwii: got it now, you need to subscribe a membership (which i just did)14:27
jjesseinteresting, micosoft started a hostile takeover of yahoo, 42 billion dollars us14:31
ScottKjjesse: Linkage please?14:31
_StefanS_kwwii: ok sent it.14:32
kwwii_StefanS_: cool, thanks14:32
_StefanS_kwwii: one thing.. what about the kicker background ?14:33
_StefanS_kwwii: any preferences, because I'm not sure whats the best solution14:33
jjesseScottK: saw it on forbes.com14:34
kwwii_StefanS_: nope, no opinions on my part14:34
jjesseScottK: http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2008/02/01/afx4602885.html14:35
_StefanS_kwwii: ok, maybe it will cook something up then14:35
jjesseyahoo stock up 52%14:35
jjesseScottK: http://www.forbes.com/home/markets/2008/02/01/microsoft-yahoo-update-markets-equity-cx_ll_0201markets13.html14:38
=== alleeHol is now known as allee
=== sebas_ is now known as sebas
=== keffie_jayx is now known as effie_jayx
=== firephoto_ is now known as firephoto
buzhas anyone got a working java plugin in either fireforx or konqui in hardy?16:54
Riddellpeople use java? :)16:56
jpatrickRiddell: nixternal does16:58
Riddellwell, for applets16:59
buzsomehow, /usr/bin/java does not even exist if i install sun-java5-bin17:01
flipstartry /usr/lib/jvm/java-5-sun-<version>/jre/17:02
buzif i install java6 it appears17:03
flipstarbtw for me it does i just linked it for firefox17:03
flipstarnever tested before17:03
Riddelltry sun-java5-jre17:03
buzthe vm crashes17:04
buzin firefox17:04
buzlets try java5 again17:04
flipstarin firefox 3 beta2 and hardy it just works for me17:05
buzcrashes with java5 too17:05
flipstarbut using java-6-sun-
buzi must be missing something17:05
Riddellnot working in konqueror, it stays on "loading applet"17:06
buzmine just stays gray17:06
buzthe vm crashes due to some xlib error17:12
RiddellI get "java: xcb_xlib.c:82: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed." on one applet17:15
buzi get that on everything17:15
flipstarsome time ago it also crashed when i enabled java..but now with firefox 3 beta2 hardy and java-6-sun- it seems solved for me :)17:17
buzreliably crashes with anything i throw at it17:20
buzah well i just reported a bug report17:21
flipstarfor me it works ..17:28
buzcould be some xorg issue17:34
buzwhat graphics card do you have17:34
flipstarnvidia gt6800 using nvidia 165.33.09 beta driver17:45
flipstarmy browser is beta by driver also and my os is alpha oO17:45
buzhmm intel 965 here18:15
cheguevarabuz, whats the bug number18:24
ubotuLaunchpad bug 188106 in sun-java6 "sun-java6 dumps core on hardy" [Undecided,New]18:25
cheguevaramarked as a duplicate18:28
Riddelldavmor2 and all: new alternate CDs up for testing18:45
buzinteresting, never had that bug before18:48
buzand i've used java with several apps on gutsy18:48
nixternalRiddell: echo "export LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK=true" >> ~/.bash_profile18:51
nixternalthat will fix your Java problem18:51
nixternalRiddell: that issue probably will not go away until the next release of Java18:52
cheguevarathere was a fix in xlib18:57
cheguevarai don't see why they had to remove it18:57
buzindeed, no more crashes18:58
buznixternal: thanks!19:00
nixternalno problem19:00
ScottK2Yep.  I read that and decided not to comment right away.  Better to calm down first.19:28
* jpatrick hugs ScottK2 19:29
Riddellit would help if Aaron's grumpy comment actually made grammatical sense :)19:31
ScottK2Sure.  It's just that Jono's rationale doesn't make that much sense to me either.19:31
ScottK2LTS or not, it's still 3.5 in Main and 4.whatever in Universe.19:32
ScottK2So KDE4 doesn't affect LTS.19:32
jpatrickhi Lure19:33
Lurejpatrick: good evening19:35
jpatrickLure: well, it is an evening, don't know about the other part19:35
Lurejpatrick: then make it good ;-)19:36
RiddellScottK2: the rational is that if we're working on two desktops we don't have time to get one of them, even the super stable 3.5, to the quality level of an LTS19:36
jpatrickLure: /me is getting a bollocking from pusling in #debian-qt-kde ;)19:36
* Lure needs to answer jono on lts e-mail...19:37
ScottK2Riddell: Which may even be accurate, but isn't how Jono explained it.19:37
Lurejpatrick: really?19:37
jpatrickLure: ah, he seems to have accepted the package :D19:37
RiddellScottK2: true19:38
ScottK2If he's going to bitch someone out in public, his bitching ought to be accurate.19:38
nixternalinteresting read on the planet just now19:39
jpatricknixternal: scroll up :D19:40
nixternalahh, you are already talking about it :p19:40
Riddelloh stop reading flamewards and go test alpha 4 candidates! :)19:40
ScottK2That's what you get living an hour behind a real time zone.19:40
nixternalRiddell: I am doing that now buddy :)19:40
Riddellnixternal: excellent.  alternates only just yet19:40
nixternal13:15:54 (681.19 KB/s) - `hardy-alternate-amd64.iso' saved [695771136/695771136]19:40
nixternalspeaking of which19:40
* nixternal gets to burning19:41
nixternalmy desktop has been yearning for Kubuntu for over a week now :)19:41
nixternalOK, this going through 100 CDRs every couple of months is getting old19:41
davmor2ScottK2:  Question for you if KDE4 takes off like a rocket how long before the 3 series gets dropped?19:41
nixternalI need to get a professional sponsor from a CDR manufacturer :)19:41
Riddelluse RWs?19:41
jpatrickbuy some -rw's19:41
Riddelldavmor2: undecided but could well be in hardy+119:42
nixternalI have never been a fan of RWs19:42
davmor2In which case you can hardly offer LTS support on 3 :)19:42
nixternalplus, after you go through 200 CDs, you go buy a cold cathode tube from the local electronics shop, and you can make a really cool looking lamp out of your old CDs19:43
ScottK2davmor2: It's going to be a long time.  KDE has said that.  KDE4 isn't even feature complete yet.19:43
davmor2and currently 4 isn't via for LTS :( which is a shame I actually quite like it (sshh I'm a gnome user)19:43
Riddelldavmor2: one could, it won't get dropped from hardy ever19:44
ScottK2Riddell: Given where we are though, I think it'd only be fair to provide Dapper --> Hardy upgrade support for Kubuntu since people who went with LTS were sort of promised an upgrade path.19:44
jjesse_i would agrre w/ ScottK219:45
Riddellthat's actually the hardest bit19:45
ScottK2Yes, but it's the bit that's been promised to those who stuck with the previous LTS.19:45
jpatrickI thought we upgraded to KDE 3.x19:46
nixternalbefore we try that, it would be nice to see how many people are still updating via the repos, a Kubuntu Dapper install19:46
nixternalthere has got to be logs of that stuff somewhere19:46
ScottK2nixternal: How would you know?19:46
nixternaldon't the repos log each connection and what it is grabbing at all?19:46
ScottK2nixternal: How many mirrors are there?19:47
nixternalOK, time to go all business for a second...what really irritates me about Free/Open Source Software projects, 99.9% of the time, they make decisions w/o one lick of data to back up that decision19:48
nixternalthey go by instinct/gut feeling, by people saying "ya that would rock", and so on19:49
nixternalsometimes they get lucky, but quite a bit of the time, they get bitched at19:49
nixternalRed Hat/Fedora realizes that, and have been working on creating a dataset just to see how much action/interaction is taking place19:50
nixternalwe can't sit here and say  we need Dapper -> Hardy for all of the users, and come to find out that there is 1 person who is remotely interested in it, or 1 person who is only using Dapper19:51
nixternalwe are wasting resources, especially when we are lacking resources19:51
ScottK2Personally, I've been more worried about it reinforcing the perception that Kubuntu is a 2nd class citizen.19:52
ScottK2Anyone here know anything about Ruby?19:53
nixternalfor all the people saying that "kubuntu is a 2nd class citizen", they still seem to enjoy using it19:53
nixternalI know absolutely dooky about Ruby19:53
jpatrickScottK2: some of us do... :)19:53
ScottK2jpatrick: Could you help me test something out?19:53
jpatrickof course19:53
ScottK2We're trying to kill off libdb4.2/3/4.  So libdb4.2/3-ruby need to die too.19:54
ScottK2I've made a libdb4.6-ruby package, but am unable to tell if it really works or not.19:55
ScottK2jpatrick: Would you be willing to play with the examples a bit if I gave you the package?19:55
jpatrickis it for Hardy?19:55
ScottK2Yes, but it builds fine on Gutsy too.19:55
davmor2Riddell: have the new builds gone through now?19:56
=== hunger_t is now known as hunger
jpatrickScottK2: ok, I can test19:56
ScottK2jpatrick: Great.  I'll give you a link for the .dsc in a moment.19:56
ScottK2jpatrick: http://www.kitterman.com/test/libdb4.6-ruby_0.6.2-0ubuntu1.dsc19:57
* jpatrick dgets19:57
ScottK2jpatrick: I've got a Gutsy i386 .deb if you want it.19:57
nixternalheh, someone gave me a ruby app to test for them recently, and I was absolutely dumbfounded on what the hell I should do with it :)19:57
ScottK2Maybe jpatrick would be willing to learn you something while he's at it.19:58
jpatrickScottK2: ah, I just feed it to prevu :)19:58
nixternalI bought a Ruby book, but haven't even stressed the binding on it yet :p19:58
* ScottK2 shudders19:59
jpatricknixternal: oh, and congrats btw!19:59
jpatrickScottK2: but I can test the .deb sure19:59
nixternalthanks jpatrick20:00
ScottK2jpatrick: The .deb's in the same place.20:00
jpatrickScottK2: ok, installed, what should I test?20:04
ScottK2jpatrick: If you look in the source package, there are several examples.20:04
ScottK2I'd suggest running through the examples and see if they 'work'.20:04
jpatrickScottK2: appears to be missing something..20:08
jpatrick./clean.rb:1:in `require': no such file to load -- ../src/bdb (LoadError)20:08
ScottK2jpatrick: Yes /src/bdb exists.  That confused me.20:08
Riddelldavmor2: alternate only20:12
jpatrickScottK2: is it not a binary? (juding by the .c files)20:12
Riddell(seems I was wrong saying alternate didn't need a rebuild earlier)20:12
davmor2Grrrr shugin fashin shugin fashin dick dastardly20:13
davmor2Riddell: any ideas when they'll be available?20:14
Riddelldavmor2: shortly after 1.7.6 appears here20:15
Riddellhopefully < an hour20:15
Riddell20:17 < slangasek> ok, ubiquity published at last, starting image builds20:18
Riddelldavmor2: ^^20:18
ScottK2jpatrick: What happens if you execute the example from in the source tree?20:19
jpatrickScottK2: same20:20
ScottK2jpatrick: You're the Ruby expert in the room.  Any suggestions?20:21
jpatrickScottK2: that'd be apachelogger_ :)20:22
* ScottK2 looks around....20:22
jpatrickScottK2: but basically it's trying to "import" something it can't find20:22
jpatricklike that lib20:23
ScottK2I've no idea what to do about that.20:23
jpatrickone sec, I'll poke around some here20:24
ScottK2jpatrick: libdb4.3-ruby1.8 is in the archives if you want a know to work package to play around with.20:25
jpatrickScottK2: hmm, complex issue20:39
* ScottK2 listens20:40
jpatrickbuilt and it still doesn't pick it up20:41
jpatricksorry, I just don't know.. :(20:42
ScottK2jpatrick: I think I found another person to look at it.20:43
ScottK2Thanks for looking20:43
jpatrick#ruby should be full of fish20:43
ScottK2There's a project I'm consulting on that is being done in Ruby, and the guy that's coding it just showed up.20:43
ScottK2If he doesn't come up with something, I'll try there.  Thanks again.20:44
jpatrickthere's always apachelogger_20:44
* ScottK2 looks around again...20:45
* Lure had to reply on his own e-mail after reading jon blog post :-(20:54
Lurewhy are we opening this can of worms again - I though that we are behind it :-(20:55
ScottK2Apparently not.20:55
mhbLure: what email?21:08
mhbLure: I've read the blog post, but what e-mail?21:08
Luremhb: jono contacted me privatelty before post as I was very vocal on mailing list21:09
jpatrickwhich ml?21:10
LureI just do not get it why we need to open this again21:10
Lurejpatrick: old LTS discussion on kubuntu-devel21:10
Lurelet's rather talk about MS and Yahoo ;-)21:12
mhbthat's a bit off-topic here, isn't it?21:12
mhbnot anything we can influence21:12
* Lure thinks MS will not be happy as Kubuntu LTS will again take them air time on the media ;-)21:12
Luremhb: just joking ;-)21:13
mhbnot really21:13
mhbMicrosoft can buy air time21:13
mhbthey can buy just about anything :o)21:13
Luregood, so they will need to spend even more - hopefully paying google for it ;-)21:13
Luremhb: I think they are behind the point of being able to buy google21:14
mhbof course, they cannot buy the U.S. either21:15
mhbI'd still be happy if Kubuntu had 1/1000 the budget they have.21:16
LureRiddell: anybody working on 4.0.1 packaing already?21:16
jpatrickLure: ana was21:16
mhbRiddell had some trouble yesterday with it21:16
jpatrickDebian KDE/Qt packager21:17
Luremhb: really, I would expect it should be easy upgrade...21:17
Lurejpatrick: how does the process look if I would like to get on kubuntu package into debian? are DD cooperative to take such packages?21:19
jpatrickLure: one sec (meeting)21:20
* Lure would push qlandkarte to debian...21:20
Lurejpatrick: no hurry21:20
RiddellLure: yes, I am21:21
RiddellLure: rpath seems to have stopped working randomly21:21
LureRiddell: that is strange... would have expected to be minor upgrade...21:21
jpatrickLure: right, I'm free now21:30
Lurejpatrick: I want qlandkarte to push to debian, what would be the best approach?21:31
jpatrickLure: get an account at http://mentors.debian.net/21:31
jpatrickLure: /connect irc.oftc.net && /join #debian-qt-kde21:31
jpatrickLure: and get ready for weird stuff like relibtoolizing packages :)21:32
Artemis_FowlSo, KDE 4.0.1 is released in 5 days?21:32
LureArtemis_Fowl: yep21:32
jpatrickLure: it's like revu, just upload it and point them to it21:33
Lurejpatrick: ok, will check this21:34
Lurejpatrick: thanks21:34
Riddelldavmor2: new CDs up!21:34
jpatrickLure: and don't worry, they may be harsh but they're just making you learn the hard way21:34
Lurejpatrick: ;-)21:35
jpatrickLure: on otfc you might want to join #debian-mentors too21:35
Lurejpatrick: if it will be too hard, I will rather spend time on kde 4 hacking ;-)21:35
jpatrickLure: If I can get a package in, you can too!21:36
Lurejpatrick: will do (even though that I have problems already with current # of channels)21:36
* jpatrick is on 29 channels21:36
jpatrickand I hear Riddell arrives at 12021:36
Lurejpatrick: qlandkarte is my first package from scratch21:38
Lurejpatrick: I got into this packaging stuff by accident ;-)21:38
jpatrickLure: was it my fault? ;)21:38
Lurejpatrick: Riddell did not want to accept my knetconf code patches, but wanted some strange thing called debdiff ;-)21:39
Lurejpatrick: you just helped me not die in the rpocess ;-)21:39
Lureprocess even21:39
jpatricknow I help with Debian ;)21:39
Lurejpatrick: it seems I cannot escape you21:40
jpatrickLure: you'll learn fast my older-than-me padawan21:40
* jpatrick off to bed - night!21:43
Lurejpatrick: good night21:44
jpatrickLure: they've discovered us..21:46
Lurejpatrick: we cannot hide :-)21:46
Lurejpatrick: I suspect I want to clean us much ubuntu/kubuntu specific outs of package before upload? ("This man page was written for Ubuntu project", patches with kubuntu_ prefix)?21:49
jpatrickLure: yeah..21:50
mhbRiddell: are we going to have the KDE4 Live CDs before Feature Freeze?21:53
ScottK2jpatrick: The answer was to change require "../src/bdb" to require "bdb46".  Then the examples work.21:55
blueyedCan I help somewhere out with packaging?21:55
jpatrickScottK2: aha, right21:56
Riddellmhb: I'm told we will21:58
mhbRiddell: right, thanks22:00
* mhb saves his bandwidth limits for that occasion22:00
Riddellmhb: changing the seeds is mostly waiting on alpha 4 I think22:01
mamefanTrying to build kdepim-3.5.7enterprise2008012722:48
mamefangetting: make[3]: *** No rule to make target `kmail-3.5-filter-icons.pl', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.22:48
mamefanAnd advice?22:48
Riddellmamefan: why are you building it? surely we have builds already22:51
mamefanYes, but the the free/busy URI has hardcoded .ifb extension and I need .vfb.22:52
Riddellshrug, try make -f debian/rules buildprep && debuild22:53
mhbRiddell: what do you think about "putting" some administration related non-kcontrol icons into systemsettings?22:57
mhbRiddell: what I mean is - there is not a clear line between configuration tools and administration-related configuration apps22:58
Riddellmhb: no, wouldn't say there is22:58
Riddellmhb: what do you have in mind?22:58
mhbRiddell: for instance "KArm" is a tool which pretty much belongs to an administration toolkit, if it were in Ubuntu it would certainly fit into the "System->Administration" menu22:59
Riddellmhb: the work timer?22:59
RiddellI don't see anything administrative about that23:00
mhbno, kcron23:00
Riddelloh right, fair enough for htat23:00
mhbI always mix the two23:00
Riddellalthough I don't know the value of that to users, it might not be needed at all23:01
mhbit might make sense to put administration tools like this as links into systemsettings23:01
mhbRiddell: I'll ask seele about it, but I wanted to know first what you think of it...23:01
mhbyou're the guru figure for me23:02
mhbthanks for your opinion.23:02
Riddelloh I'm sure you'd tell me if I was wrong :)23:02
RiddellI'm unsure about this one http://launchpad.net/bugs/8172523:02
ubotuLaunchpad bug 81725 in kdegraphics "Moving KPDF menu entry to Office instead of Graphics?" [Low,Confirmed]23:02
mhbit may be worth it to reopen it upstream23:03
mhbbecause "okular" (touted as a Document viewer") is in Graphics, too23:04
Riddellupstream seem to be as indecisive as me23:04
nixternalgo figure :)23:05
mhbto me, office sounds more logical.23:05
mhbof course, this is not for me, a programmer with no UI education at all, to decide :o)23:05
nixternalditto for office23:06
Riddellsounds like a decision :)23:07
nixternalI mean, PDF does stand for Portable DOCUMENT Format, don't see how Document fits into graphics :)23:07
nixternalman I am so logical after the drugs wear off :)23:07
mhbnixternal: you feeling better now?23:08
nixternala bit better, yes23:08
mhbthat's good to hear23:08
nixternalI thought D3lphin was now Dolphin in KMenu23:08
Riddellnixternal: always has been23:10
Riddellit's not any more23:10
nixternalok, just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy23:10
mhbI guess I'm lost in the way the KDE4 systemsettings generates the "icons"23:16
mhball the official KDE4 systemsettings modules are .desktop files for services23:17
mhbis it possible to put there a non-service one, launching anything you desire?23:18
Riddellmhb: i doubt it23:18
Riddellalthough worth trying23:18
mamefanRiddell:  make -f debian/rules buildprep && debuild gives:23:20
mamefandebian/rules:6: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory23:20
mamefanOops, sorry no cdbs installed.23:21
mhbkdebase/workspace/kcontrol/PURPOSE is funny23:34
mhbespecially the part "System settings is not system administration"23:34
* mhb wonders which dictator has stated it23:34
nixternalgotta love when you respond to a bug in lp, the person decides to email you info concerning the bug instead of adding it to the report itself23:56
nixternalreply("please attach this info to the bug report otherwise it will not get fixed");23:57
wolfgeryeah, I was just looking at some old bugs in which comments on the bug included quotes obviously lifted from an e-mail.23:59

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