[00:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: I get lost, it looks like a combinason of issues in fact
[00:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: the deadlock issue seems due to line 30, but doesn't happen if you comment line 22....... I'm lost
[00:07] <Nightrose> mi: I got the same problem sometimes
[00:07] <Nightrose> but on my whoe screen
[00:07] <Nightrose> *whole
[00:10] <Riddell> Tonio_: runs for me
[00:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: works for you ?
[00:11] <Tonio_> hum it looks like my installation needs to be freshed up a bit ;)
[00:11] <Riddell> Tonio_: oh, do you have oxygen installed?
[00:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: lemme look
[00:11] <Riddell> oxygen.so
[00:11] <Riddell> sudo rm /usr/lib/kde4/lib/kde4/plugins/styles/oxygen.so
[00:12] <Tonio_> is that supposed to change something ?
[00:13] <Riddell> it'll stop QtDbus being loaded
[00:13] <Tonio_> damned that fixed the issue
[00:13] <Riddell> yeah, it's a qt bug, had me tearing my hair out for a week
[00:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: you are a genius..... finding that a kde4 theme library can cause a python qt4 scrip to fail........
[00:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks for the fix ;)
[00:14] <Riddell> http://www.mail-archive.com/pyqt%40riverbankcomputing.com/msg12848.html
[00:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: will read this thanks
[00:16] <Riddell>     args = sys.argv + ["-style=plastique"]
[00:16] <Riddell>     app = QApplication(args)
[00:16] <Riddell> that'll fix it
[00:16] <Riddell> or workaround rather
[00:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll upload with that workarround waiting for that to be fixed thanks
[00:19] <Tonio_> the stupid thing is that this script doesn't display any qt window ;)
[00:19] <Riddell> there should be a way of telling it that it's not a GUI app
[00:19] <Riddell> probably an argument to QApplication
[00:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: well Qapplication is part of QtGui right ?
[00:28] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes but I seem to remember there's a way of telling it that it's not really a GUI app
[00:29] <Tonio_> from PyQt4 import Qt
[00:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: instead of QtGui
[00:29] <Tonio_> that might work, I'm giving a try
[00:30] <mi> kde4 don't have in effects loose binding for nvidia ....that is reason why effects is not good here
[00:30] <mi> nvidia bad supported in kde4
[00:31] <Tonio_> mi ati too :)
[00:31] <mi> maybe kde-dev team visit compiz-dev ...lol
[00:32] <Tonio_> Riddell:  For non-GUI Qt applications, use QCoreApplication instead,
[00:33] <Riddell> Tonio_: voila
[00:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: but then "isrestoredsession" fails......
[00:33] <Tonio_> AttributeError: isSessionRestored
[00:34] <Tonio_> I need to investigate in the docs
[00:35] <Riddell> nothing wrong with ["-style=plastique"]
[00:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, am I wrong saying that if we use coreapplication it might not restore an then there is no need for that test ?
[00:36] <Riddell> I've no idea
[00:36] <Tonio_> I'll test
[00:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: good news also is that with the help of mhb and toma we are not that far to have a kdesudo-kde4 working
[00:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: atm it works except fails when sudo has some cached passwd, due to X errors
[00:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have to get the kcookie thing to work correctly and use a /tmp copied Xauthority file
[00:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: once that done hopefully we can release a preliminary version
[00:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: bad news is that I may not have time to finish the apt:/ protocol before the feature freeze......
[00:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll do my best to make it a bit better before then
[00:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: on the other hand the repos addition isn't widelly used, and the main functionnality work (adding, removing packages)
[00:53] <Tonio_> trying kblueplugd fixed
[01:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: confirmed a qcoreappllication doesn't restore, I'll upload the fixed package
[01:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: thanks for the help ! :)
[01:22] <cheguevara> anyone uses mono by any chance
[01:56] <ScottK2> cheguevara: RAOF in #ubuntu-motu
[02:02] <cheguevara> thx ScottK
[02:45] <cheguevara> ooh 4.0.1 tarballs are being uploaded
[02:45] <Hobbsee> \o/
[02:45] <nosrednaekim> yaaaa
[02:46] <cheguevara> Unfortunately
[02:46] <cheguevara> there was a problem with kde-l10n generation so I have to redo them and
[02:46] <cheguevara> upload later today.
[04:00] <cheguevara> http://www.kde.org/announcements/changelogs/changelog4_0to4_0_1.php
[04:31] <mi> when will see this changes in repo?
[05:38] <nixternal> hacking under the glow of LED is whicked elite..I feel like I am working in some underground bunker for some corrupt government
[05:38] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:38] <nixternal> im in your cabinets eatin your captain crunch
[05:39] <nixternal> finally woke up from my over-the-counter drugged up stuper
[09:04] <davmor2> Riddell: has the release gone out yet?
[09:05] <nixternal> everyone is just getting about that works on the release, so expect it in the next few hours as long as there aren't any hiccups
[09:05]  * nixternal finally beds
[09:18] <_StefanS_> morning..
[09:19] <_StefanS_> kwwii: can we use the oxygen iconset in kde3, now that its formally released?
[09:19] <_StefanS_> probably a longshot ;)
[09:19] <_StefanS_> ie. not likely.
[10:26] <Riddell> davmor2: no, there's still a problem in the installer
[10:26] <davmor2> Riddell: which installer?
[10:27] <Riddell> davmor2: ubiquity
[10:27] <davmor2> (back is a bit better so wanted to know if I was too late to test stuff )
[10:27] <Riddell> but 186147
[10:27] <davmor2> turns out not by a long shot :)
[10:28] <davmor2> bug 186147
[10:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186147 in ubiquity "ubiquity "failed to remove conflicting files"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186147
[10:28] <Lure> _StefanS_: you can, but you need to rename back to old naming scheme - not sure if anybody did that already
[10:28] <_StefanS_> Lure: someone from archlinux did that..
[10:28] <_StefanS_> Lure: and it works great.
[10:28] <Lure> _StefanS_: so it should be easy to prepare kde3 package for ubuntu
[10:29] <davmor2> bit of an issue then
[10:29] <Lure> _StefanS_: any links?
[10:29] <_StefanS_> Lure: two secs
[10:29]  * Lure would work on this as does not like kde3 kontact with old icons
[10:29] <davmor2> does this mean I may as well stop testing cause they'll be another version to download any time soon?
[10:30] <_StefanS_> Lure: I'm talking about replacing the default crystal icons with these for hardy
[10:30] <_StefanS_> Lure: if kwii likes it..
[10:30] <Lure> _StefanS_: we could discuss, but at least having it as option would be great
[10:30] <_StefanS_> indeed.
[10:31]  * _StefanS_ really dislikes crystal.
[10:32] <_StefanS_> ah mepislovers :)
[10:32] <_StefanS_> not archlinux heeh
[10:33] <_StefanS_> Lure: http://www.mepislovers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13239&page=2
[10:33] <kwwii> _StefanS_: I would rather not (and it would be a lot of work anyway)
[10:33] <_StefanS_> kwwii: uhm atleast I can dream :)
[10:34] <_StefanS_> kwwii: well, I'm trying to mock up something now
[10:34] <_StefanS_> kwwii: first thing would be to remove that awful (imho) fractal background...
[10:34] <Riddell> davmor2: we have a likely fix for ubiquity, the question is if I can get it in or do we need to wait for the americans to wake up
[10:35] <davmor2> Riddell: harsh :)
[10:37] <davmor2> Riddell: So the big question.  Do I carry on burning the Images I've downloaded or not?
[10:38] <Riddell> davmor2: alternate ones yes, desktop ones well all testing is good but they'll likely be new ones at some point today that need testing too
[10:38] <davmor2> right I'll stick with alts for now then
[10:40] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I guess we will have to stick to the blueish scheme ?
[10:42] <kwwii> _StefanS_: well, unless someone comes up with something that everyone thinks is better, yes
[10:42] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ok
[10:46] <_StefanS_> kwwii: the default size of the wallpapers, should that be 1920x1200, or smaller?
[10:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: Ie. the "max" size we're expecting to have without it getting scaled.
[10:47] <kwwii> _StefanS_: it should be at least that size or bigger
[10:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: oka
[10:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: 4:3 or wide?
[10:47] <kwwii> both, preferably
[10:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: afaik we cant determine that, right?
[10:48] <kwwii> yes
[11:06] <_StefanS_> kwwii: could you make a version of the edgy buttons where the top looks like the bottom, so the minimize/close doesn't fade out in the top?
[11:07] <kwwii> _StefanS_: erm, we do have an svg of the icons and the gimp file used to finalize them...not sure if I have enough time though
[11:07] <kwwii> _StefanS_: if you want the files let me know and I can send them to you
[11:08] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ok send them my way then
[11:10] <_StefanS_> Riddell: it seems like the all black text for kdm wasn't added to alpha4 (date is still grey, and difficult to read)
[11:27] <Lure> kwwii: did you do battery icons for oxygen or was that nuno?
[11:29] <Riddell> grep StatusColor /usr/share/apps/ksplash/Themes/kubuntu/Theme.rc
[11:29] <Riddell> StatusColor = #000000
[11:29] <Riddell> _StefanS_: ^^
[11:35] <kwwii> Lure: the newest ones are from nuno
[11:40] <Lure> kwwii: I would need mouse/keyboard overlay (similar to AC), for battery/keyboard battery presentation
[11:40] <Lure> kwwii: will talk with nuno then
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Riddell: the splash is fine, the kdm decoration is the one I mean
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Riddell: its also the only one with a date :)
[11:53] <mhb> good mornin
[11:54] <Riddell> #
[11:56] <mhb> Riddell: # to you, too
[11:56] <_StefanS_> ##
[12:12] <SlimG> What's the reason for making D3lphin the default filebrowser? imho Konqueror does a great job at that already
[12:15] <Riddell> SlimG: dolphin is focused on file management, you can still use konqueror
[12:16] <SlimG> Riddell: So it has features not yet implemented in Konqueror?
[12:16] <SlimG> advanced features I assume
[12:16] <Riddell> it has a simpler user interface
[12:25] <SlimG> Mkay, I seem to understand that new users (or most users even) prefer separate filemanager and webbrowser to avoid confusion, I just thought more people shared my interpretation of simplicity :)
[12:25] <_StefanS_> hmm just found a bug in dolphin related to fish..
[12:26] <hads> There's a couple o' bugs in 3, 4 is nicer.
[12:27] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I patched the kwin style to allow the shadows only on the active windows: http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot1.png
[12:27] <_StefanS_> kwwii: which is alot better than the current "double" text on inactive windows
[12:36] <kwwii> _StefanS_: cool, looks nice
[12:37] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I will experiment with qtcurve now
[12:37] <_StefanS_> kwwii: donno about the background, I cant seem to find something blue that is nice
[12:38] <kwwii> _StefanS_: actually lots of people like the current wallpaper
[12:39] <_StefanS_> kwwii: the fractals ?? 1996.. ?
[12:40] <mhb> lots?
[12:41] <mhb> I've heard some, but not lots
[12:42] <kwwii> mhb: I have heard quite a few more likes than disklikes
[12:42] <kwwii> in the end, whatever is chosen by the majority wins, naturally
[12:42] <_StefanS_> kwwii: this is how it would look with oxygen on it : http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot2.png
[12:43] <kwwii> personally, I would prefer not using oxygen in kde3
[12:43] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I know, but just to show you
[12:46] <Riddell> using oxygen in kde 3 would make all the oxygen artists grumpy, we don't want that
[12:47] <_StefanS_> yes they will probably be kinda irritated.
[12:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: how long would it take for you to fix those buttons I talked about?
[12:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: thing is, I'm not that confident in gimp
[12:48] <kwwii> _StefanS_: if i knew *exactly* what I wanted to do it would take a day or so
[12:48] <_StefanS_> kwwii: uhm ok, we dont want to you use a day doing just that :) - I will try
[12:52] <kwwii> _StefanS_: I might find time to take a swing at it but right now I cannot promise
[12:52] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I'm doing it now, no worries. Also I dont know if it will look good. So dont waste your time
[12:53] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I will prepare a patch for kwin-style-crystal where the textShadow only affects active windows, if thats okay?
[12:53] <Riddell> _StefanS_: I don't see any shadow on the text
[12:54] <Riddell> infact you seem to have a slightly different theme than I'm seeing
[12:54] <_StefanS_> Riddell: err.. if you enable textshadow in hardy you will find the inactive windows having a double sort of shadow that looks awful. Its because the inactive window texts are black
[12:55] <Riddell> _StefanS_: oh, so this is only to help people who enable it by default?
[12:55] <_StefanS_> Riddell: well I hoped, if we could agree to enable shadow by default in the active windows :)
[12:56] <_StefanS_> Riddell: does alot to the readability on the active windows.
[12:56] <Riddell> ok
[12:57] <Riddell> _StefanS_: go ahead then
[12:57] <kwwii> one thing that we should do is decide what to set in qtcurve
[12:57] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ok cool
[12:57] <_StefanS_> kwwii: yes ofcourse, I will experiment with that, and come up with more or less conversative ideas
[12:57] <_StefanS_> kwwii: and you guys can have a look at it.
[12:58] <Hobbsee> we're going for qtcurve?
[12:58] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: well only if I can make it look good, and everything likes and so on..
[12:59] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: likes it
[12:59] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[12:59] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: just a my two cents basically.
[13:01] <kwwii> Hobbsee: I think it would be a good time to switch (and qtcurve is pretty nice)
[13:02] <Hobbsee> kwwii: i was never overly impressed with it, but it may well suit kde4 better than kde3
[13:02] <Hobbsee> and, people can probably make it looked good - i only explored the defaults
[13:08] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: it can look really nice
[13:14] <jpatrick> guten tag allee
[13:20] <Hobbsee> tag, jpatrick.  Wie gehts?
[13:21] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I just sent you the patch for kwin-style-crystal
[13:33] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: sher gut, und dir?
[13:34] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: ja, gut.
[13:36] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: kannst du zu Debian upload machen?
[13:37] <cheguevara> Hobbsee, i heard intel is going to be reverted to XAA again?
[13:37] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: nein, ich ein DD nicht.
[13:37]  * allee suggest for next meeting: rename #kubuntu-devel to #kubuntu-devel-de
[13:37] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: i think that's the plan, yes
[13:37] <Hobbsee> allee: if only i could speak it better...
[13:38] <cheguevara> Hobbsee, do you think there's any possibility of convincing X/kernel teams to merge the new drm modules
[13:38] <cheguevara> releasign an LTS with XAA is not good
[13:38] <allee> Hobbsee: was schreibst du?  Ich verstehe kein Englisch mehr ;)
[13:38] <cheguevara> *releasing
[13:38]  * jpatrick suggests allee take a look at http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=kde-style-domino
[13:38] <blizzzek> allee: in the current germen chans, the -de comes right after kubuntu, and the the other part, e.g. #kubuntu-de-offtopic
[13:38] <Hobbsee> allee: :P
[13:38] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: i have commit rights to debian-qt-kde, as does allee
[13:39] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: has debian done so yet?  last i knew, they were waiting on debian
[13:39]  * allee has first to get FAI running :(
[13:39] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: I know, something I have yet to gain
[13:39] <cheguevara> meh ubuntu kernel development is not really in line wtih debian
[13:39] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: the X stuff, in particular
[13:39] <cheguevara> X stuff doesn't need any changes its the kernel
[13:40] <cheguevara> i am building a kernel with the needed modules atm to see how it performs
[13:40] <allee> jpatrick: I'm not a DD or MOTU.  So not much I can sponsor at all
[13:42] <jpatrick> allee: ah, okay, endschdiung
[13:42] <_StefanS_> kwwii: http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot3.png , let me know what you think..
[13:43] <Nightrose> a friend of mine needs flash in konqueror for her work (she is doing website stuff for nestle and needs to test in konqueror) - and I remember that flash in konqueror was broken - is that fixed yet and if not can you tell me when it is expected to be fixed?
[13:44] <buz> works for me
[13:44] <buz> in hardy
[13:44] <buz> did so in gutsy
[13:44] <Nightrose> hmm my flash in gutsy is b0rked in konqueror :(
[13:44] <_StefanS_> Nightrose: I think Riddell just uploaded a new flashplayer ..
[13:44] <Nightrose> _StefanS_: that would be awesome
[13:44] <buz> in konqueror3 it definitely works
[13:45] <_StefanS_> #173890
[13:45] <buz> in konqueror4 it seems broken
[13:45] <_StefanS_> buz: most stuff is.
[13:46] <buz> thats true
[13:46] <Nightrose> _StefanS_: thx a lot - will tell her
[13:46] <_StefanS_> I noticed it didn't work, but havent checked out what might cause it
[13:46] <_StefanS_> Nightrose: well, you should ask Riddell himself to be sure though ;)
[13:47] <Nightrose> yea /me uses kde 4 so it might be due to that
[13:47] <buz> Nightrose: try /usr/bin/konqueror instead of konqueror-kde4
[13:48] <Nightrose> buz: will do to check - but really I use firefox most of the time anyway because of the extensions
[13:48] <Nightrose> so doesn´t bother me much
[13:53] <buz> i like konqueror
[13:53] <buz> its faster than firefox
[13:53] <buz> but firefox is more accepting of broken websites
[13:54] <ScottK> buz: For Konqueror that's a feature, not a bug.
[13:54] <buz> i wasnt complaining
[13:54] <ScottK> K
[13:54] <kwwii> _StefanS_: nice...one thing to think about: the gloss on the window deco should match the gloss on the widgets
[13:54] <Riddell> Nightrose: it depends on what version of flash you have
[13:54] <buz> (but i'm in favor of webkit while we're at it)
[13:54] <_StefanS_> kwwii: yep, I will try that
[13:54] <Nightrose> Riddell: ok which one should she have?
[13:56] <_StefanS_> kwwii: http://enhance-it.dk/snapshot4.png ?
[13:57] <kwwii> _StefanS_: close, but it still needs a bit more love
[13:57] <_StefanS_> kwwii: probably :) - what areas?
[13:57] <cheguevara> http://www.osnews.com/story/19254
[13:57] <kwwii> _StefanS_: the lightlight part of the gloss needs to be the same
[13:57] <_StefanS_> kwwii: okay
[13:58] <_StefanS_> kwwii: well on the buttons ?
[13:58] <kwwii> in that screenshot the window deco has a line at which the gloss stops, the qtcurve stuff doesn't
[13:58] <Riddell> Nightrose: it depends how she's installing it
[13:59] <Riddell> Nightrose: updates for konqueror are going into gutsy-proposed today
[13:59] <kwwii> _StefanS_: looks pretty good
[13:59] <Nightrose> Riddell: I assume she did everything via adept (she is new to linux and kubuntu)
[14:02] <_StefanS_> kwwii: to mimic the looks of the widgets/buttons we need to make a new overlay for the windeco it seems
[14:03] <_StefanS_> kwwii: using just "Glass" is what I'm doing now
[14:07] <kwwii> _StefanS_: right, exactly
[14:09] <Riddell> Nightrose: she should enable gutsy-proposed "proposed updates" and install flashplayer-nonfree sometime tomorrow
[14:09] <_StefanS_> kwwii: also the buttons is causing me problems :( - So maybe you could fix them ? the lower half of the kubuntu edgy", I made this (ugly) mockup: http://enhance-it.dk/buttons.png
[14:09] <Nightrose> Riddell: perfect thx
[14:10] <_StefanS_> kwwii: they way they are now is making the buttons look "unfinished"
[14:10] <kwwii> _StefanS_: right
[14:10] <kwwii> _StefanS_: we used a version like that before gutsy
[14:10] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I know, but it didn't have the transperancy going like the current ones
[14:11] <_StefanS_> kwwii: newer ones are nicer
[14:11] <kwwii> ;-)
[14:11] <kwwii> I'll see how much time I have
[14:12] <_StefanS_> kwwii: cool, prefs for the style is here: http://enhance-it.dk/kubuntu-new.qtcurve
[14:18] <kwwii> I really like this wallpaper: http://djmattricks.deviantart.com/art/Aquapattern-46516380
[14:19] <_StefanS_> kwwii: yes thats pretty cool
[14:19] <_StefanS_> kwwii: should ask the guy if we can use it?
[14:20] <kwwii> couldn't hurt
[14:20] <_StefanS_> kwwii: okay
[14:20] <_StefanS_> kwwii: dont know how it would work with the current kubuntu colors on the deco though..
[14:21] <kwwii> _StefanS_: well, we would have to change them then ;-
[14:21] <kwwii> )
[14:21] <_StefanS_> kwwii: yes, I was just thinking that it might become way too light..
[14:21] <Riddell> _StefanS_: it would need to be not noncommercial
[14:22] <_StefanS_> Riddell: okay.. maybe he could change it from creative commons then
[14:23] <Riddell> _StefanS_: CC is fine, just not noncommercial
[14:23] <_StefanS_> Riddell: CC 3.0
[14:24] <Riddell> what about it?
[14:24] <_StefanS_> well its version 3.0.. maybe you knew something I didnt :)
[14:24] <_StefanS_> havent really explored those licenses and what they stand for
[14:25] <_StefanS_> kwwii: seems kinda hard to get his email
[14:25] <Riddell> 14:23 < Riddell> _StefanS_: CC is fine, just not noncommercial
[14:25] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yes I saw it the first time :)
[14:25] <_StefanS_> Riddell: can we use it without asking then ?
[14:25] <Riddell> _StefanS_: no, since it's noncommercial
[14:25] <_StefanS_> ok
[14:27] <_StefanS_> kwwii: got it now, you need to subscribe a membership (which i just did)
[14:31] <jjesse> interesting, micosoft started a hostile takeover of yahoo, 42 billion dollars us
[14:31] <ScottK> jjesse: Linkage please?
[14:32] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ok sent it.
[14:32] <kwwii> _StefanS_: cool, thanks
[14:33] <_StefanS_> kwwii: one thing.. what about the kicker background ?
[14:33] <_StefanS_> kwwii: any preferences, because I'm not sure whats the best solution
[14:34] <jjesse> ScottK: saw it on forbes.com
[14:34] <kwwii> _StefanS_: nope, no opinions on my part
[14:34] <ScottK> Thanks
[14:35] <jjesse> ScottK: http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2008/02/01/afx4602885.html
[14:35] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ok, maybe it will cook something up then
[14:35] <jjesse> yahoo stock up 52%
[14:38] <jjesse> ScottK: http://www.forbes.com/home/markets/2008/02/01/microsoft-yahoo-update-markets-equity-cx_ll_0201markets13.html
[14:38] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:54] <buz> has anyone got a working java plugin in either fireforx or konqui in hardy?
[16:56] <Riddell> people use java? :)
[16:58] <jpatrick> Riddell: nixternal does
[16:59] <Riddell> well, for applets
[17:01] <buz> somehow, /usr/bin/java does not even exist if i install sun-java5-bin
[17:02] <flipstar> try /usr/lib/jvm/java-5-sun-<version>/jre/
[17:03] <buz> if i install java6 it appears
[17:03] <flipstar> btw for me it does i just linked it for firefox
[17:03] <flipstar> never tested before
[17:03] <Riddell> try sun-java5-jre
[17:04] <buz> the vm crashes
[17:04] <buz> in firefox
[17:04] <buz> lets try java5 again
[17:05] <flipstar> in firefox 3 beta2 and hardy it just works for me
[17:05] <buz> crashes with java5 too
[17:05] <flipstar> but using java-6-sun-1.6.0.04
[17:05] <buz> i must be missing something
[17:06] <Riddell> not working in konqueror, it stays on "loading applet"
[17:06] <buz> mine just stays gray
[17:12] <buz> the vm crashes due to some xlib error
[17:15] <Riddell> I get "java: xcb_xlib.c:82: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed." on one applet
[17:15] <buz> i get that on everything
[17:16] <buz> http://pastebin.ca/887822
[17:17] <flipstar> some time ago it also crashed when i enabled java..but now with firefox 3 beta2 hardy and java-6-sun-1.6.0.04 it seems solved for me :)
[17:20] <buz> reliably crashes with anything i throw at it
[17:21] <buz> ah well i just reported a bug report
[17:28] <flipstar> for me it works ..
[17:34] <buz> could be some xorg issue
[17:34] <buz> what graphics card do you have
[17:45] <flipstar> nvidia gt6800 using nvidia 165.33.09 beta driver
[17:45] <flipstar> my browser is beta by driver also and my os is alpha oO
[18:15] <buz> hmm intel 965 here
[18:24] <cheguevara> buz, whats the bug number
[18:25] <buz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/188106
[18:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188106 in sun-java6 "sun-java6 dumps core on hardy" [Undecided,New]
[18:28] <cheguevara> marked as a duplicate
[18:45] <Riddell> davmor2 and all: new alternate CDs up for testing
[18:48] <buz> interesting, never had that bug before
[18:48] <buz> and i've used java with several apps on gutsy
[18:51] <nixternal> Riddell: echo "export LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK=true" >> ~/.bash_profile
[18:51] <nixternal> that will fix your Java problem
[18:52] <nixternal> Riddell: that issue probably will not go away until the next release of Java
[18:57] <cheguevara> there was a fix in xlib
[18:57] <cheguevara> i don't see why they had to remove it
[18:58] <buz> indeed, no more crashes
[19:00] <buz> nixternal: thanks!
[19:00] <nixternal> no problem
[19:23] <jpatrick> http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=1113
[19:28] <ScottK2> Yep.  I read that and decided not to comment right away.  Better to calm down first.
[19:29]  * jpatrick hugs ScottK2 
[19:29] <ScottK2> Thanks.
[19:31] <Riddell> it would help if Aaron's grumpy comment actually made grammatical sense :)
[19:31] <ScottK2> Sure.  It's just that Jono's rationale doesn't make that much sense to me either.
[19:32] <ScottK2> LTS or not, it's still 3.5 in Main and 4.whatever in Universe.
[19:32] <ScottK2> So KDE4 doesn't affect LTS.
[19:33] <jpatrick> hi Lure
[19:35] <Lure> jpatrick: good evening
[19:35] <jpatrick> Lure: well, it is an evening, don't know about the other part
[19:36] <Lure> jpatrick: then make it good ;-)
[19:36] <Riddell> ScottK2: the rational is that if we're working on two desktops we don't have time to get one of them, even the super stable 3.5, to the quality level of an LTS
[19:36] <jpatrick> Lure: /me is getting a bollocking from pusling in #debian-qt-kde ;)
[19:37]  * Lure needs to answer jono on lts e-mail...
[19:37] <ScottK2> Riddell: Which may even be accurate, but isn't how Jono explained it.
[19:37] <Lure> jpatrick: really?
[19:37] <jpatrick> Lure: ah, he seems to have accepted the package :D
[19:38] <Riddell> ScottK2: true
[19:38] <ScottK2> If he's going to bitch someone out in public, his bitching ought to be accurate.
[19:39] <nixternal> interesting read on the planet just now
[19:40] <jpatrick> nixternal: scroll up :D
[19:40] <nixternal> ahh, you are already talking about it :p
[19:40] <nixternal> hahaha
[19:40] <Riddell> oh stop reading flamewards and go test alpha 4 candidates! :)
[19:40] <ScottK2> That's what you get living an hour behind a real time zone.
[19:40] <nixternal> Riddell: I am doing that now buddy :)
[19:40] <Riddell> nixternal: excellent.  alternates only just yet
[19:40] <nixternal> 13:15:54 (681.19 KB/s) - `hardy-alternate-amd64.iso' saved [695771136/695771136]
[19:40] <nixternal> speaking of which
[19:41]  * nixternal gets to burning
[19:41] <nixternal> my desktop has been yearning for Kubuntu for over a week now :)
[19:41] <nixternal> OK, this going through 100 CDRs every couple of months is getting old
[19:41] <davmor2> ScottK2:  Question for you if KDE4 takes off like a rocket how long before the 3 series gets dropped?
[19:41] <nixternal> I need to get a professional sponsor from a CDR manufacturer :)
[19:41] <Riddell> use RWs?
[19:41] <jpatrick> buy some -rw's
[19:42] <Riddell> davmor2: undecided but could well be in hardy+1
[19:42] <nixternal> I have never been a fan of RWs
[19:42] <davmor2> In which case you can hardly offer LTS support on 3 :)
[19:43] <nixternal> plus, after you go through 200 CDs, you go buy a cold cathode tube from the local electronics shop, and you can make a really cool looking lamp out of your old CDs
[19:43] <ScottK2> davmor2: It's going to be a long time.  KDE has said that.  KDE4 isn't even feature complete yet.
[19:43] <davmor2> and currently 4 isn't via for LTS :( which is a shame I actually quite like it (sshh I'm a gnome user)
[19:44] <Riddell> davmor2: one could, it won't get dropped from hardy ever
[19:44] <ScottK2> Riddell: Given where we are though, I think it'd only be fair to provide Dapper --> Hardy upgrade support for Kubuntu since people who went with LTS were sort of promised an upgrade path.
[19:45] <jjesse_> i would agrre w/ ScottK2
[19:45] <Riddell> that's actually the hardest bit
[19:45] <ScottK2> Yes, but it's the bit that's been promised to those who stuck with the previous LTS.
[19:46] <jpatrick> I thought we upgraded to KDE 3.x
[19:46] <nixternal> before we try that, it would be nice to see how many people are still updating via the repos, a Kubuntu Dapper install
[19:46] <nixternal> there has got to be logs of that stuff somewhere
[19:46] <ScottK2> nixternal: How would you know?
[19:46] <nixternal> don't the repos log each connection and what it is grabbing at all?
[19:47] <ScottK2> nixternal: How many mirrors are there?
[19:48] <nixternal> OK, time to go all business for a second...what really irritates me about Free/Open Source Software projects, 99.9% of the time, they make decisions w/o one lick of data to back up that decision
[19:49] <nixternal> they go by instinct/gut feeling, by people saying "ya that would rock", and so on
[19:49] <nixternal> sometimes they get lucky, but quite a bit of the time, they get bitched at
[19:50] <nixternal> Red Hat/Fedora realizes that, and have been working on creating a dataset just to see how much action/interaction is taking place
[19:51] <nixternal> we can't sit here and say  we need Dapper -> Hardy for all of the users, and come to find out that there is 1 person who is remotely interested in it, or 1 person who is only using Dapper
[19:51] <nixternal> we are wasting resources, especially when we are lacking resources
[19:52] <ScottK2> Personally, I've been more worried about it reinforcing the perception that Kubuntu is a 2nd class citizen.
[19:53] <ScottK2> Anyone here know anything about Ruby?
[19:53] <nixternal> for all the people saying that "kubuntu is a 2nd class citizen", they still seem to enjoy using it
[19:53] <nixternal> I know absolutely dooky about Ruby
[19:53] <jpatrick> ScottK2: some of us do... :)
[19:53] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Could you help me test something out?
[19:53] <jpatrick> of course
[19:54] <ScottK2> We're trying to kill off libdb4.2/3/4.  So libdb4.2/3-ruby need to die too.
[19:55] <ScottK2> I've made a libdb4.6-ruby package, but am unable to tell if it really works or not.
[19:55] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Would you be willing to play with the examples a bit if I gave you the package?
[19:55] <jpatrick> is it for Hardy?
[19:55] <ScottK2> Yes, but it builds fine on Gutsy too.
[19:56] <davmor2> Riddell: have the new builds gone through now?
[19:56] <jpatrick> ScottK2: ok, I can test
[19:56] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Great.  I'll give you a link for the .dsc in a moment.
[19:57] <ScottK2> jpatrick: http://www.kitterman.com/test/libdb4.6-ruby_0.6.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
[19:57]  * jpatrick dgets
[19:57] <ScottK2> jpatrick: I've got a Gutsy i386 .deb if you want it.
[19:57] <nixternal> heh, someone gave me a ruby app to test for them recently, and I was absolutely dumbfounded on what the hell I should do with it :)
[19:58] <ScottK2> Maybe jpatrick would be willing to learn you something while he's at it.
[19:58] <jpatrick> ScottK2: ah, I just feed it to prevu :)
[19:58] <nixternal> I bought a Ruby book, but haven't even stressed the binding on it yet :p
[19:59]  * ScottK2 shudders
[19:59] <jpatrick> nixternal: oh, and congrats btw!
[19:59] <jpatrick> ScottK2: but I can test the .deb sure
[20:00] <nixternal> thanks jpatrick
[20:00] <ScottK2> jpatrick: The .deb's in the same place.
[20:04] <jpatrick> ScottK2: ok, installed, what should I test?
[20:04] <ScottK2> jpatrick: If you look in the source package, there are several examples.
[20:04] <ScottK2> I'd suggest running through the examples and see if they 'work'.
[20:08] <jpatrick> ScottK2: appears to be missing something..
[20:08] <jpatrick> ./clean.rb:1:in `require': no such file to load -- ../src/bdb (LoadError)
[20:08] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Yes /src/bdb exists.  That confused me.
[20:12] <Riddell> davmor2: alternate only
[20:12] <jpatrick> ScottK2: is it not a binary? (juding by the .c files)
[20:12] <Riddell> (seems I was wrong saying alternate didn't need a rebuild earlier)
[20:12] <ScottK2> Ah.
[20:13] <davmor2> Grrrr shugin fashin shugin fashin dick dastardly
[20:14] <davmor2> Riddell: any ideas when they'll be available?
[20:15] <Riddell> davmor2: shortly after 1.7.6 appears here
[20:15] <Riddell> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ubiquity/
[20:15] <Riddell> hopefully < an hour
[20:16] <davmor2> :(
[20:18] <Riddell> 20:17 < slangasek> ok, ubiquity published at last, starting image builds
[20:18] <Riddell> davmor2: ^^
[20:19] <davmor2> yay
[20:19] <ScottK2> jpatrick: What happens if you execute the example from in the source tree?
[20:20] <jpatrick> ScottK2: same
[20:20] <ScottK2> Urgh.
[20:21] <ScottK2> jpatrick: You're the Ruby expert in the room.  Any suggestions?
[20:22] <jpatrick> ScottK2: that'd be apachelogger_ :)
[20:22]  * ScottK2 looks around....
[20:22] <jpatrick> ScottK2: but basically it's trying to "import" something it can't find
[20:23] <jpatrick> like that lib
[20:23] <ScottK2> I've no idea what to do about that.
[20:24] <jpatrick> one sec, I'll poke around some here
[20:24] <ScottK2> Thanks.
[20:25] <ScottK2> jpatrick: libdb4.3-ruby1.8 is in the archives if you want a know to work package to play around with.
[20:39] <jpatrick> ScottK2: hmm, complex issue
[20:40]  * ScottK2 listens
[20:41] <jpatrick> built and it still doesn't pick it up
[20:42] <jpatrick> sorry, I just don't know.. :(
[20:43] <ScottK2> jpatrick: I think I found another person to look at it.
[20:43] <ScottK2> Thanks for looking
[20:43] <jpatrick> #ruby should be full of fish
[20:43] <ScottK2> There's a project I'm consulting on that is being done in Ruby, and the guy that's coding it just showed up.
[20:44] <ScottK2> If he doesn't come up with something, I'll try there.  Thanks again.
[20:44] <jpatrick> there's always apachelogger_
[20:45]  * ScottK2 looks around again...
[20:54]  * Lure had to reply on his own e-mail after reading jon blog post :-(
[20:55] <Lure> why are we opening this can of worms again - I though that we are behind it :-(
[20:55] <ScottK2> Apparently not.
[21:04] <jpatrick> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/kde-style-domino_0.4-1.html
[21:08] <mhb> Lure: what email?
[21:08] <mhb> Lure: I've read the blog post, but what e-mail?
[21:09] <Lure> mhb: jono contacted me privatelty before post as I was very vocal on mailing list
[21:09] <mhb> ah.
[21:09] <mhb> right
[21:10] <jpatrick> which ml?
[21:10] <Lure> I just do not get it why we need to open this again
[21:10] <Lure> jpatrick: old LTS discussion on kubuntu-devel
[21:10] <jpatrick> ah
[21:12] <Lure> let's rather talk about MS and Yahoo ;-)
[21:12] <mhb> that's a bit off-topic here, isn't it?
[21:12] <mhb> not anything we can influence
[21:12]  * Lure thinks MS will not be happy as Kubuntu LTS will again take them air time on the media ;-)
[21:13] <Lure> mhb: just joking ;-)
[21:13] <mhb> not really
[21:13] <mhb> Microsoft can buy air time
[21:13] <mhb> they can buy just about anything :o)
[21:13] <Lure> good, so they will need to spend even more - hopefully paying google for it ;-)
[21:14] <Lure> mhb: I think they are behind the point of being able to buy google
[21:15] <mhb> of course, they cannot buy the U.S. either
[21:16] <mhb> I'd still be happy if Kubuntu had 1/1000 the budget they have.
[21:16] <Lure> Riddell: anybody working on 4.0.1 packaing already?
[21:16] <jpatrick> Lure: ana was
[21:16] <mhb> Riddell had some trouble yesterday with it
[21:16] <mhb> ana?
[21:17] <jpatrick> Debian KDE/Qt packager
[21:17] <Lure> mhb: really, I would expect it should be easy upgrade...
[21:18] <jpatrick> http://people.debian.org/~ana/401/
[21:19] <Lure> jpatrick: how does the process look if I would like to get on kubuntu package into debian? are DD cooperative to take such packages?
[21:20] <jpatrick> Lure: one sec (meeting)
[21:20]  * Lure would push qlandkarte to debian...
[21:20] <Lure> jpatrick: no hurry
[21:21] <Riddell> Lure: yes, I am
[21:21] <Riddell> Lure: rpath seems to have stopped working randomly
[21:21] <Lure> Riddell: that is strange... would have expected to be minor upgrade...
[21:30] <jpatrick> Lure: right, I'm free now
[21:31] <Lure> jpatrick: I want qlandkarte to push to debian, what would be the best approach?
[21:31] <jpatrick> Lure: get an account at http://mentors.debian.net/
[21:31] <jpatrick> Lure: /connect irc.oftc.net && /join #debian-qt-kde
[21:32] <jpatrick> Lure: and get ready for weird stuff like relibtoolizing packages :)
[21:32] <Artemis_Fowl> So, KDE 4.0.1 is released in 5 days?
[21:32] <Lure> Artemis_Fowl: yep
[21:32] <Artemis_Fowl> nice
[21:33] <jpatrick> Lure: it's like revu, just upload it and point them to it
[21:34] <Lure> jpatrick: ok, will check this
[21:34] <Lure> jpatrick: thanks
[21:34] <Riddell> davmor2: new CDs up!
[21:34] <jpatrick> Lure: and don't worry, they may be harsh but they're just making you learn the hard way
[21:35] <Lure> jpatrick: ;-)
[21:35] <jpatrick> Lure: on otfc you might want to join #debian-mentors too
[21:35] <Lure> jpatrick: if it will be too hard, I will rather spend time on kde 4 hacking ;-)
[21:36] <jpatrick> Lure: If I can get a package in, you can too!
[21:36] <Lure> jpatrick: will do (even though that I have problems already with current # of channels)
[21:36]  * jpatrick is on 29 channels
[21:36] <jpatrick> and I hear Riddell arrives at 120
[21:38] <Lure> jpatrick: qlandkarte is my first package from scratch
[21:38] <Lure> jpatrick: I got into this packaging stuff by accident ;-)
[21:38] <jpatrick> Lure: was it my fault? ;)
[21:39] <Lure> jpatrick: Riddell did not want to accept my knetconf code patches, but wanted some strange thing called debdiff ;-)
[21:39] <Lure> jpatrick: you just helped me not die in the rpocess ;-)
[21:39] <Lure> process even
[21:39] <jpatrick> smashing
[21:39] <jpatrick> now I help with Debian ;)
[21:40] <Lure> jpatrick: it seems I cannot escape you
[21:40] <jpatrick> Lure: you'll learn fast my older-than-me padawan
[21:43]  * jpatrick off to bed - night!
[21:44] <Lure> jpatrick: good night
[21:46] <jpatrick> Lure: they've discovered us..
[21:46] <Lure> jpatrick: we cannot hide :-)
[21:49] <Lure> jpatrick: I suspect I want to clean us much ubuntu/kubuntu specific outs of package before upload? ("This man page was written for Ubuntu project", patches with kubuntu_ prefix)?
[21:50] <jpatrick> Lure: yeah..
[21:53] <mhb> Riddell: are we going to have the KDE4 Live CDs before Feature Freeze?
[21:55] <ScottK2> jpatrick: The answer was to change require "../src/bdb" to require "bdb46".  Then the examples work.
[21:55] <blueyed> Can I help somewhere out with packaging?
[21:56] <jpatrick> ScottK2: aha, right
[21:58] <Riddell> mhb: I'm told we will
[22:00] <mhb> Riddell: right, thanks
[22:00]  * mhb saves his bandwidth limits for that occasion
[22:01] <Riddell> mhb: changing the seeds is mostly waiting on alpha 4 I think
[22:48] <mamefan> Trying to build kdepim-3.5.7enterprise20080127
[22:48] <mamefan> getting: make[3]: *** No rule to make target `kmail-3.5-filter-icons.pl', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.
[22:48] <mamefan> And advice?
[22:48] <mamefan> And=Any
[22:51] <Riddell> mamefan: why are you building it? surely we have builds already
[22:52] <mamefan> Yes, but the the free/busy URI has hardcoded .ifb extension and I need .vfb.
[22:53] <Riddell> shrug, try make -f debian/rules buildprep && debuild
[22:57] <mhb> Riddell: what do you think about "putting" some administration related non-kcontrol icons into systemsettings?
[22:58] <mhb> Riddell: what I mean is - there is not a clear line between configuration tools and administration-related configuration apps
[22:58] <Riddell> mhb: no, wouldn't say there is
[22:58] <Riddell> mhb: what do you have in mind?
[22:59] <mhb> Riddell: for instance "KArm" is a tool which pretty much belongs to an administration toolkit, if it were in Ubuntu it would certainly fit into the "System->Administration" menu
[22:59] <Riddell> mhb: the work timer?
[23:00] <Riddell> I don't see anything administrative about that
[23:00] <mhb> argh
[23:00] <mhb> no, kcron
[23:00] <Riddell> oh right, fair enough for htat
[23:00] <Riddell> that
[23:00] <mhb> I always mix the two
[23:01] <Riddell> although I don't know the value of that to users, it might not be needed at all
[23:01] <mhb> it might make sense to put administration tools like this as links into systemsettings
[23:01] <mhb> Riddell: I'll ask seele about it, but I wanted to know first what you think of it...
[23:02] <mhb> you're the guru figure for me
[23:02] <mhb> thanks for your opinion.
[23:02] <Riddell> oh I'm sure you'd tell me if I was wrong :)
[23:02] <Riddell> I'm unsure about this one http://launchpad.net/bugs/81725
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 81725 in kdegraphics "Moving KPDF menu entry to Office instead of Graphics?" [Low,Confirmed]
[23:03] <mhb> it may be worth it to reopen it upstream
[23:04] <mhb> because "okular" (touted as a Document viewer") is in Graphics, too
[23:04] <mhb> "
[23:04] <Riddell> upstream seem to be as indecisive as me
[23:04] <mhb> hmm
[23:05] <nixternal> go figure :)
[23:05] <mhb> to me, office sounds more logical.
[23:05] <mhb> of course, this is not for me, a programmer with no UI education at all, to decide :o)
[23:06] <nixternal> ditto for office
[23:07] <Riddell> sounds like a decision :)
[23:07] <nixternal> I mean, PDF does stand for Portable DOCUMENT Format, don't see how Document fits into graphics :)
[23:07] <nixternal> man I am so logical after the drugs wear off :)
[23:08] <mhb> nixternal: you feeling better now?
[23:08] <nixternal> a bit better, yes
[23:08] <mhb> that's good to hear
[23:08] <nixternal> I thought D3lphin was now Dolphin in KMenu
[23:10] <Riddell> nixternal: always has been
[23:10] <Riddell> erk!
[23:10] <Riddell> it's not any more
[23:10] <nixternal> ok, just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy
[23:16] <mhb> hmm
[23:16] <mhb> I guess I'm lost in the way the KDE4 systemsettings generates the "icons"
[23:17] <mhb> all the official KDE4 systemsettings modules are .desktop files for services
[23:18] <mhb> is it possible to put there a non-service one, launching anything you desire?
[23:18] <Riddell> mhb: i doubt it
[23:18] <Riddell> although worth trying
[23:20] <mamefan> Riddell:  make -f debian/rules buildprep && debuild gives:
[23:20] <mamefan> debian/rules:6: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
[23:21] <mamefan> Oops, sorry no cdbs installed.
[23:34] <mhb> kdebase/workspace/kcontrol/PURPOSE is funny
[23:34] <mhb> especially the part "System settings is not system administration"
[23:34]  * mhb wonders which dictator has stated it
[23:56] <nixternal> gotta love when you respond to a bug in lp, the person decides to email you info concerning the bug instead of adding it to the report itself
[23:57] <nixternal> reply("please attach this info to the bug report otherwise it will not get fixed");
[23:59] <wolfger> yeah, I was just looking at some old bugs in which comments on the bug included quotes obviously lifted from an e-mail.