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warp10Hi all!12:40
dholbachMOTU Q&A session in 16 minutes12:45
dholbachWelcome everybody to another MOTU Q&A Session!13:00
* dholbach is Daniel Holbach - who else do we have here today? :)13:00
* Hobbsee is the trouble-making green alien13:00
Hobbseedon't turn out like me, else you'll have to keep putting out spot fires13:00
dholbachis that everybody today? :)13:01
dholbachI thought we'd have a bunch of MOTU and Packaging questions :-)13:01
JonReaganI have one!13:01
* warp10 is Andrea Colangelo, MOTU contributor, interested in science and games 13:02
dholbachhey JonReagan - how are you doing?13:02
dholbachhey warp1013:02
dholbachJonReagan: fire away13:02
JonReagandoin' fine.. you?13:02
JonReaganthis will take me a sec to type out...13:02
dholbachvery fine, thanks13:02
dholbachno problem - we have time13:03
dholbachwarp10: how are you doing?13:03
warp10dholbach: I would feel better without my flu :S13:03
dholbachwarp10: man, I know how you feel - spent the complete last weekend in bed and felt bad for most of the week :)13:04
JonReaganI want to bring an app called OpenProj into the repositories.  I have checked the repos, needs-packaging, and found no sign of OpenProj.  Basically, after reading all the packaging pages, from MOTU to licensing, I have one question... Where do I begin? :)13:04
warp10dholbach: argh :(13:05
dholbachJonReagan: a good approach I used when I package something new was: look at packages that have a similar build system or are structured in a similar way13:05
dholbachwe have http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Lists/ReferencePackages which lists a few13:05
dholbachJonReagan: first of all I'd file the needs-packaging bug and assign it to you, so everybody knows you're on it and they can contact you if they want to help out etc13:06
dholbachJonReagan: did you figure out how the openproj source tarball is made up? build-system wise?13:06
dholbachdoes it use python? does it use a ./configure && make approach? what does it do?13:07
JonReaganI believe it uses the ./configure method13:07
JonReaganit runs off the java runtime enging13:07
JonReaganbut the developers said the dependencies can be changed to use something OSS, like Icedtea13:08
dholbachif it indeed uses ./configure and friends it wouldn't hurt to start with the example that dh_make provides13:08
dholbachdebian/rules would then just make of the configure script it finds13:08
JonReagandh_make, is that a programming example package?13:09
dholbachthe dependencies are something you specify in debian/control - that should not be problematic13:09
dholbachit will provide you with a bunch of example files for the debian directory13:09
JonReaganwhew... good13:09
dholbachof course you will still have to fill in the gaps13:09
dholbachhttp://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete has information on how to use it (it describes it the case of the 'hello' package)13:10
JonReaganjust downloaded the tar.gz13:10
JonReaganlooks like it comes with a script file to install it.13:10
JonReagan.sh, to be exact13:10
dholbachso it looks like it just installs a bunch of .jar files?13:11
dholbach(to everybody else: if you have a question, just ask)13:11
JonReaganyup... that's what it looks like13:11
dholbachwe generally prefer if we can build binaries from source, but if there's no other way and the license makes it generally distributable it can still go to multiverse13:12
JonReaganthere is a source package available... I feel smart! :P13:12
dholbachdo we have any other questions right now?13:13
dholbachor did the bunch of you come to get openproj packaged? :)13:13
* warp10 has a couple questions13:14
warp10I have just read on Ubuntu-MOTU mailing list about this Ubuntu Developer Week thing. dholbach, would you like to say something more about what's going on in a couple weeks?13:14
dholbachJonReagan: it seems to use ant and other java stuff I'm really not familiar with, I'd encourage you to check out other big java packages and maybe get in touch with the upstream developers of openproj to see how they build the .deb file they include on their web page13:15
dholbachwarp10: so Ubuntu Developer Week is going to be from Feb 18th to Feb 22nd - just like at Ubuntu Open Week we're going to have a lot of session explaining about all kinds of things that go on in Ubuntu development land13:16
dholbachsome will explain how a certain team works with Q&A parts and others will directly dive into explaining how to stuff like patching, like submitting things for review, like how to get involved with MOTU and so on13:16
dholbachright now I asked for proposals of sessions and once we have the schedule filled up, I'll announce it to the public13:17
dholbachhey wolfger13:17
dholbachwarp10: does that answer your question?13:17
warp10dholbach: it does indeed. It sounds like a very great week! I Hope all sessions will be logged and pasted on the wiki13:18
dholbachwarp10: you said you had some more questions? :)13:18
warp10dholbach: yes, a more technical one13:18
dholbachfire away13:18
warp10I would like to know a little more about stamps usage in debian/rules. Why should I use (or don't use) them? And why?13:19
warp10s/and why?/And when?13:19
dholbachI'm just checking the docs for a clever answer on that, hang on13:20
dholbachwhat I found right now only explained that it's used to make use of upstream's own Makefile during the build process13:22
dholbachthat's not terribly much13:22
warp10If this is an interesting topic, maybe we can find a better answer to this topic for next Q&A? Otherwise, never mind :)13:23
dholbachit's definitely established routine to make use of them, I just can't find much about the actual justification besides making use of the upstream Makefile13:24
dholbachgood idea - sorry for not giving a better answer13:24
dholbachdo we have any other questions?13:24
warp10dholbach: not a problam at all. :)13:24
dholbachok good :)13:24
dholbachwolfger: how are things going since the Packaging Jam?13:25
wolfgerdholbach: I wasn't able to attend the Packaging Jam, and the second one was supposed to be this weekend, but got postponed13:25
dholbach(for those that don't know wolfger and his Loco ran a Packaging Jam in Michigan:  http://mitechie.com/index.php?/archives/273-Summary-of-MiLoCo-Packaging-Jam-2007.html )13:26
dholbachwolfger: but you had a lost of interest in it, right?13:26
wolfgerI tried putting together a package for MeMaker, but I couldn't find a really good tutorial on packaging a Python app from scratch.13:26
dholbachwolfger: you could take a look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Lists/ReferencePackages which lists a few python packages13:27
dholbachwe'll have a Packaging Jam in Berlin next week and I'm absolutely excited about it13:27
wolfgerMeMaker got somebody else to do the initial package, and now when things settle down, I'll take a crack at upgrading it to the next version.13:27
dholbachwolfger: did you try the PackagingGuide Recipes already?13:28
dholbachthere's one about upgrading a package to a new version13:28
dholbachmaybe that'll help13:28
wolfgeryes, I know13:28
dholbachrock on13:28
wolfgerthanks for taking an interest :-)13:28
dholbachthat's what we're here for  :-)13:29
dholbachany more questions?13:29
* JonReagan raises hand... 13:29
dholbachany problems you ran into lately?13:29
dholbachJonReagan: fire away13:29
JonReaganafter I get the source, do I need to build it myself, and upload it as a binary version>13:29
HobbseeJonReagan: we're not debian - you only ever upload sources in ubuntu13:30
dholbachJonReagan: you need to make sure it's buildable by running      debuild    in the source tree or build it with pbuilder (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto)13:30
HobbseeJonReagan: but you should check it does build, yes ;)13:30
dholbachJonReagan: yeah, what Hobbsee said: we just upload the source package to the build daemon and it will produce the binary packages for us13:30
JonReaganvery cool13:30
dholbachyeah :)13:31
HobbseeJonReagan: if you upload binaries to ubuntu, it'll either get sent to /dev/null, or almost to /dev/null, and i'll come and yell at you for gettin git wrong :)13:31
Hobbseeno binaries.  no dcut.  easy does it :)13:31
dholbachHobbsee: gettin git wrong is very easy :)13:31
JonReaganyeah, I wont do that.13:31
dholbachgood stuff :-)13:31
Hobbseedholbach: hehe, yeah well.13:31
* Hobbsee is always somewhat surprised about what people manage to upload to REVU13:31
dholbachany other troubles you have? pressing questions? problems? stories you want to tell? :)13:31
dholbachHobbsee: REVU should just ignore that kind of stuff :)13:32
dholbachor move it to /dev/null13:32
Hobbseedholbach: it almost does13:32
JonReagansay, is it ok to ask questions on the mailing list?  I should be able to figure just about everything out, but if I run into trouble, is it ok to ask?13:32
dholbachthat sounds like a good start :)13:32
dholbachJonReagan: sure13:32
JonReaganah, great.  That's all the questions I had... thanks folks!13:33
dholbachrock on JonReagan13:33
HobbseeJonReagan: we like eating new contributors.  :)13:33
dholbachHobbsee: speak for yourself :)13:33
Hobbseethey're tasty!13:33
* Hobbsee munches happily13:33
dholbachhey walmis13:34
wolfgeryou want fries with that?13:34
dholbachhere for the MOTU Q&A session?13:34
dholbachprobably not :)13:34
dholbachso we answered all the questions? I mean: all of them? :)13:35
dholbachif we really did: get to work, there are gazillions of bugs to be fixed! :-))))13:35
dholbachwould you know how to submit a bugfix for inclusion into ubuntu?13:36
dholbachin case you're wondering: it's http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess13:37
dholbachand two things I have on my mind for a while right now are13:38
dholbach - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.status_upstream=resolved_upstream    (Bugs that are fixed Upstream or elsewhere already)13:39
dholbach - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.has_patch=on (bugs with patches attached)13:40
dholbachit'd be great to get those lists as close to  0  as possible for hardy as possible13:40
dholbachmaybe it'd help to split them up into main and universe13:41
dholbachanyway - I'll post my thoughts about that soon :)13:41
dholbachjust wanted to let you know13:41
* wolfger raises hand13:41
dholbachdid I scare you away now?13:42
dholbachwolfger: fire away13:42
wolfgerWhat's the best/easiest way to do something useful, as a rank noob?13:42
dholbachwe have http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Bugs13:43
Hobbseetake a patch, fix it into a debdiff, and subscribe the sponsoring stuff13:43
Hobbseethat way, it doesn't require you do to "coding"13:43
dholbachwhat Hobbsee says is a good idea for example13:43
Hobbsee(for the easiest)13:43
wolfgersounds good13:43
dholbachmaking sure the patch applies, make sure it builds, make sure it fixes the problem, and submit the debdiff13:43
dholbachother than that we have lots of lists with open bugs, some are tagged as 'bitesize' (suitable for new contributors)13:44
JonReaganI gotta run folks, thanks for all the help!13:44
dholbachbut also 'upgrade' bugs (new upstream version), 'ftbfs' bugs for stuff that doesn't build, etc etc :)13:44
dholbachhave a great day, JonReagan13:44
dholbachwolfger: I'm thinking of running BugJams here in Berlin to get working on some of those lists - I think I heard jcastro mentioning something like that about Michigan13:45
dholbachare there any more questions?13:47
dholbachif not, I'd soon run off to grab some lunch *starving*13:47
dholbachwolfger: generally I'd say that fixing existing packages is much easier than packaging stuff from scratch (which seems to attract much more new contributors)13:47
wolfgerdholbach: great! Yeah, I ran the BugJam here, and jcastro talked me into doing it again for Penguicon13:48
dholbachwolfger: woah - nice13:48
dholbachI guess that's going to be huge?13:48
wolfgerI hope so.13:48
dholbachI'm sure it's going to be :)13:48
wolfgerMy presentation focused on the easy stuff, showing people that all you really need to help triage is a knowledge of how to work a web browser13:49
dholbachthat's right13:49
dholbachdid you chat with bdmurray about that?13:49
wolfgerno, I haven't13:49
dholbachhe might be able to give you a list of stuff to work on and some guidelines on the wiki13:49
dholbachhe's our bugmaster13:49
dholbach(hanging out on #ubuntu-bugs all the time)13:50
wolfgeryes, he's helped me out there more than once13:50
dholbachahh col13:50
wolfgerdidn't know he was "the bugmaster"13:50
dholbachhe earned the title fair and square13:50
dholbachalthough pedro_ gives him some good competition, I guess :)13:51
dholbachok MOTU Friends - I'll finish the session here today, feel free to ask whatever questions you still have in #ubuntu-motu and thanks for showing up13:52
dholbachyou guys ROCK :-)13:52
* dholbach -> lunch :)13:52
ScottKPlease don't be afraid to ask in #ubuntu-motu.  We're glad to help people learn how to help out.13:53
warp10dholbach: thanks, and have a good lunch! :)13:53
dholbachScottK: exactly :)13:53
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etyhi how can i watch .swf files20:18
etyanyone on the room20:20
etyanyone on the room20:22
etyanyone on the room20:22

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