[12:40] <warp10> Hi all!
[12:44] <dholbach> heya
[12:45] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 16 minutes
[13:00] <dholbach> Welcome everybody to another MOTU Q&A Session!
[13:00]  * dholbach is Daniel Holbach - who else do we have here today? :)
[13:00]  * Hobbsee is the trouble-making green alien
[13:00] <Hobbsee> don't turn out like me, else you'll have to keep putting out spot fires
[13:01] <dholbach> is that everybody today? :)
[13:01] <dholbach> I thought we'd have a bunch of MOTU and Packaging questions :-)
[13:01] <JonReagan> I have one!
[13:02]  * warp10 is Andrea Colangelo, MOTU contributor, interested in science and games 
[13:02] <dholbach> hey JonReagan - how are you doing?
[13:02] <dholbach> hey warp10
[13:02] <dholbach> JonReagan: fire away
[13:02] <JonReagan> doin' fine.. you?
[13:02] <JonReagan> this will take me a sec to type out...
[13:02] <dholbach> very fine, thanks
[13:03] <dholbach> no problem - we have time
[13:03] <dholbach> warp10: how are you doing?
[13:03] <warp10> dholbach: I would feel better without my flu :S
[13:04] <dholbach> warp10: man, I know how you feel - spent the complete last weekend in bed and felt bad for most of the week :)
[13:04] <JonReagan> I want to bring an app called OpenProj into the repositories.  I have checked the repos, needs-packaging, and found no sign of OpenProj.  Basically, after reading all the packaging pages, from MOTU to licensing, I have one question... Where do I begin? :)
[13:05] <warp10> dholbach: argh :(
[13:05] <dholbach> JonReagan: a good approach I used when I package something new was: look at packages that have a similar build system or are structured in a similar way
[13:05] <dholbach> we have http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Lists/ReferencePackages which lists a few
[13:05] <JonReagan> thanks
[13:06] <dholbach> JonReagan: first of all I'd file the needs-packaging bug and assign it to you, so everybody knows you're on it and they can contact you if they want to help out etc
[13:06] <JonReagan> k
[13:06] <dholbach> JonReagan: did you figure out how the openproj source tarball is made up? build-system wise?
[13:07] <dholbach> does it use python? does it use a ./configure && make approach? what does it do?
[13:07] <JonReagan> I believe it uses the ./configure method
[13:07] <JonReagan> it runs off the java runtime enging
[13:07] <JonReagan> *engine
[13:08] <JonReagan> but the developers said the dependencies can be changed to use something OSS, like Icedtea
[13:08] <dholbach> if it indeed uses ./configure and friends it wouldn't hurt to start with the example that dh_make provides
[13:08] <dholbach> debian/rules would then just make of the configure script it finds
[13:09] <JonReagan> oh
[13:09] <JonReagan> dh_make, is that a programming example package?
[13:09] <dholbach> the dependencies are something you specify in debian/control - that should not be problematic
[13:09] <dholbach> it will provide you with a bunch of example files for the debian directory
[13:09] <JonReagan> whew... good
[13:09] <dholbach> of course you will still have to fill in the gaps
[13:09] <JonReagan> ah
[13:10] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete has information on how to use it (it describes it the case of the 'hello' package)
[13:10] <JonReagan> just downloaded the tar.gz
[13:10] <JonReagan> looks like it comes with a script file to install it.
[13:10] <JonReagan> .sh, to be exact
[13:11] <dholbach> so it looks like it just installs a bunch of .jar files?
[13:11] <dholbach> (to everybody else: if you have a question, just ask)
[13:11] <JonReagan> yup... that's what it looks like
[13:12] <dholbach> we generally prefer if we can build binaries from source, but if there's no other way and the license makes it generally distributable it can still go to multiverse
[13:12] <JonReagan> there is a source package available... I feel smart! :P
[13:12] <dholbach> ahh!
[13:13] <dholbach> do we have any other questions right now?
[13:13] <dholbach> or did the bunch of you come to get openproj packaged? :)
[13:14]  * warp10 has a couple questions
[13:14] <warp10> I have just read on Ubuntu-MOTU mailing list about this Ubuntu Developer Week thing. dholbach, would you like to say something more about what's going on in a couple weeks?
[13:15] <dholbach> JonReagan: it seems to use ant and other java stuff I'm really not familiar with, I'd encourage you to check out other big java packages and maybe get in touch with the upstream developers of openproj to see how they build the .deb file they include on their web page
[13:15] <JonReagan> ok
[13:16] <dholbach> warp10: so Ubuntu Developer Week is going to be from Feb 18th to Feb 22nd - just like at Ubuntu Open Week we're going to have a lot of session explaining about all kinds of things that go on in Ubuntu development land
[13:16] <dholbach> some will explain how a certain team works with Q&A parts and others will directly dive into explaining how to stuff like patching, like submitting things for review, like how to get involved with MOTU and so on
[13:17] <dholbach> right now I asked for proposals of sessions and once we have the schedule filled up, I'll announce it to the public
[13:17] <dholbach> hey wolfger
[13:17] <wolfger> hey
[13:17] <dholbach> warp10: does that answer your question?
[13:18] <warp10> dholbach: it does indeed. It sounds like a very great week! I Hope all sessions will be logged and pasted on the wiki
[13:18] <dholbach> absolutely
[13:18] <dholbach> warp10: you said you had some more questions? :)
[13:18] <warp10> dholbach: yes, a more technical one
[13:18] <dholbach> fire away
[13:19] <warp10> I would like to know a little more about stamps usage in debian/rules. Why should I use (or don't use) them? And why?
[13:19] <warp10> s/and why?/And when?
[13:20] <dholbach> I'm just checking the docs for a clever answer on that, hang on
[13:21] <Skiessl> <_<
[13:22] <Skiessl> >_>
[13:22] <dholbach> what I found right now only explained that it's used to make use of upstream's own Makefile during the build process
[13:22] <dholbach> that's not terribly much
[13:23] <warp10> If this is an interesting topic, maybe we can find a better answer to this topic for next Q&A? Otherwise, never mind :)
[13:24] <dholbach> it's definitely established routine to make use of them, I just can't find much about the actual justification besides making use of the upstream Makefile
[13:24] <dholbach> good idea - sorry for not giving a better answer
[13:24] <dholbach> do we have any other questions?
[13:24] <warp10> dholbach: not a problam at all. :)
[13:24] <dholbach> ok good :)
[13:25] <dholbach> wolfger: how are things going since the Packaging Jam?
[13:25] <wolfger> dholbach: I wasn't able to attend the Packaging Jam, and the second one was supposed to be this weekend, but got postponed
[13:26] <dholbach> (for those that don't know wolfger and his Loco ran a Packaging Jam in Michigan:  http://mitechie.com/index.php?/archives/273-Summary-of-MiLoCo-Packaging-Jam-2007.html )
[13:26] <dholbach> wolfger: but you had a lost of interest in it, right?
[13:26] <wolfger> I tried putting together a package for MeMaker, but I couldn't find a really good tutorial on packaging a Python app from scratch.
[13:26] <wolfger> s/lost/lots/
[13:26] <wolfger> ;-)
[13:27] <dholbach> wolfger: you could take a look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Lists/ReferencePackages which lists a few python packages
[13:27] <dholbach> we'll have a Packaging Jam in Berlin next week and I'm absolutely excited about it
[13:27] <wolfger> MeMaker got somebody else to do the initial package, and now when things settle down, I'll take a crack at upgrading it to the next version.
[13:28] <dholbach> wolfger: did you try the PackagingGuide Recipes already?
[13:28] <dholbach> there's one about upgrading a package to a new version
[13:28] <dholbach> maybe that'll help
[13:28] <wolfger> yes, I know
[13:28] <dholbach> rock on
[13:28] <wolfger> thanks for taking an interest :-)
[13:29] <dholbach> that's what we're here for  :-)
[13:29] <dholbach> any more questions?
[13:29]  * JonReagan raises hand... 
[13:29] <dholbach> any problems you ran into lately?
[13:29] <dholbach> JonReagan: fire away
[13:29] <JonReagan> after I get the source, do I need to build it myself, and upload it as a binary version>
[13:30] <Hobbsee> JonReagan: we're not debian - you only ever upload sources in ubuntu
[13:30] <dholbach> JonReagan: you need to make sure it's buildable by running      debuild    in the source tree or build it with pbuilder (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto)
[13:30] <Hobbsee> JonReagan: but you should check it does build, yes ;)
[13:30] <JonReagan> ah
[13:30] <dholbach> JonReagan: yeah, what Hobbsee said: we just upload the source package to the build daemon and it will produce the binary packages for us
[13:30] <JonReagan> very cool
[13:31] <dholbach> yeah :)
[13:31] <Hobbsee> JonReagan: if you upload binaries to ubuntu, it'll either get sent to /dev/null, or almost to /dev/null, and i'll come and yell at you for gettin git wrong :)
[13:31] <JonReagan> lol
[13:31] <Hobbsee> no binaries.  no dcut.  easy does it :)
[13:31] <dholbach> Hobbsee: gettin git wrong is very easy :)
[13:31] <JonReagan> yeah, I wont do that.
[13:31] <dholbach> good stuff :-)
[13:31] <Hobbsee> dholbach: hehe, yeah well.
[13:31]  * Hobbsee is always somewhat surprised about what people manage to upload to REVU
[13:31] <dholbach> any other troubles you have? pressing questions? problems? stories you want to tell? :)
[13:32] <dholbach> Hobbsee: REVU should just ignore that kind of stuff :)
[13:32] <dholbach> or move it to /dev/null
[13:32] <Hobbsee> dholbach: it almost does
[13:32] <JonReagan> say, is it ok to ask questions on the mailing list?  I should be able to figure just about everything out, but if I run into trouble, is it ok to ask?
[13:32] <dholbach> that sounds like a good start :)
[13:32] <dholbach> JonReagan: sure
[13:33] <JonReagan> ah, great.  That's all the questions I had... thanks folks!
[13:33] <dholbach> rock on JonReagan
[13:33] <Hobbsee> JonReagan: we like eating new contributors.  :)
[13:33] <JonReagan> hehe
[13:33] <dholbach> Hobbsee: speak for yourself :)
[13:33] <Hobbsee> they're tasty!
[13:33]  * Hobbsee munches happily
[13:34] <dholbach> hey walmis
[13:34] <wolfger> you want fries with that?
[13:34] <dholbach> here for the MOTU Q&A session?
[13:34] <dholbach> probably not :)
[13:35] <dholbach> so we answered all the questions? I mean: all of them? :)
[13:35] <dholbach> if we really did: get to work, there are gazillions of bugs to be fixed! :-))))
[13:36] <dholbach> would you know how to submit a bugfix for inclusion into ubuntu?
[13:37] <dholbach> in case you're wondering: it's http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[13:38] <dholbach> and two things I have on my mind for a while right now are
[13:39] <dholbach>  - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.status_upstream=resolved_upstream    (Bugs that are fixed Upstream or elsewhere already)
[13:40] <dholbach>  - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.has_patch=on (bugs with patches attached)
[13:40] <dholbach> it'd be great to get those lists as close to  0  as possible for hardy as possible
[13:41] <dholbach> maybe it'd help to split them up into main and universe
[13:41] <dholbach> anyway - I'll post my thoughts about that soon :)
[13:41] <dholbach> just wanted to let you know
[13:41]  * wolfger raises hand
[13:42] <dholbach> did I scare you away now?
[13:42] <dholbach> wolfger: fire away
[13:42] <wolfger> What's the best/easiest way to do something useful, as a rank noob?
[13:43] <dholbach> we have http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Bugs
[13:43] <Hobbsee> take a patch, fix it into a debdiff, and subscribe the sponsoring stuff
[13:43] <Hobbsee> that way, it doesn't require you do to "coding"
[13:43] <dholbach> what Hobbsee says is a good idea for example
[13:43] <Hobbsee> (for the easiest)
[13:43] <wolfger> sounds good
[13:43] <wolfger> thanks
[13:43] <dholbach> making sure the patch applies, make sure it builds, make sure it fixes the problem, and submit the debdiff
[13:44] <dholbach> other than that we have lots of lists with open bugs, some are tagged as 'bitesize' (suitable for new contributors)
[13:44] <JonReagan> I gotta run folks, thanks for all the help!
[13:44] <dholbach> but also 'upgrade' bugs (new upstream version), 'ftbfs' bugs for stuff that doesn't build, etc etc :)
[13:44] <dholbach> have a great day, JonReagan
[13:45] <dholbach> wolfger: I'm thinking of running BugJams here in Berlin to get working on some of those lists - I think I heard jcastro mentioning something like that about Michigan
[13:47] <dholbach> are there any more questions?
[13:47] <dholbach> if not, I'd soon run off to grab some lunch *starving*
[13:47] <dholbach> wolfger: generally I'd say that fixing existing packages is much easier than packaging stuff from scratch (which seems to attract much more new contributors)
[13:48] <wolfger> dholbach: great! Yeah, I ran the BugJam here, and jcastro talked me into doing it again for Penguicon
[13:48] <dholbach> wolfger: woah - nice
[13:48] <dholbach> I guess that's going to be huge?
[13:48] <wolfger> I hope so.
[13:48] <dholbach> I'm sure it's going to be :)
[13:49] <wolfger> My presentation focused on the easy stuff, showing people that all you really need to help triage is a knowledge of how to work a web browser
[13:49] <dholbach> that's right
[13:49] <dholbach> did you chat with bdmurray about that?
[13:49] <wolfger> no, I haven't
[13:49] <dholbach> he might be able to give you a list of stuff to work on and some guidelines on the wiki
[13:49] <dholbach> he's our bugmaster
[13:50] <dholbach> (hanging out on #ubuntu-bugs all the time)
[13:50] <wolfger> yes, he's helped me out there more than once
[13:50] <dholbach> ahh col
[13:50] <dholbach> cool
[13:50] <wolfger> didn't know he was "the bugmaster"
[13:50] <dholbach> he earned the title fair and square
[13:51] <dholbach> although pedro_ gives him some good competition, I guess :)
[13:52] <dholbach> ok MOTU Friends - I'll finish the session here today, feel free to ask whatever questions you still have in #ubuntu-motu and thanks for showing up
[13:52] <dholbach> you guys ROCK :-)
[13:52]  * dholbach -> lunch :)
[13:53] <ScottK> Please don't be afraid to ask in #ubuntu-motu.  We're glad to help people learn how to help out.
[13:53] <warp10> dholbach: thanks, and have a good lunch! :)
[13:53] <dholbach> ScottK: exactly :)
[20:18] <ety> hi how can i watch .swf files
[20:20] <ety> anyone on the room
[20:22] <ety> anyone on the room
[20:22] <ety> anyone on the room