[00:42] <guillaume_> ogra you there?
[00:44] <stgraber> guillaume_: it's 01:42 at GMT+1
[00:45] <LaserJock> he'll be on in the morning in Germany
[00:45] <guillaume_> hehe allright
[00:47] <guillaume_> I submitted the bug report
[00:48] <guillaume_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/188223
[00:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188223 in ltsp "CHROOT will not upgrade" [Undecided,New]
[00:48] <LaserJock> I saw it
[00:48] <LaserJock> :-)
[00:48] <guillaume_> k
[00:49] <guillaume_> i was wondering if it was good practice to use the pastebin in a bug report
[00:49] <stgraber> no, not really
[00:50] <stgraber> usually you create a text file, then attach it to the bug
[00:50] <guillaume_> is the pastebin reseted once in a while?
[00:50] <stgraber> some pastebin doesn't keep the history for long
[00:50] <guillaume_> ok ill attach a text file then
[00:54] <guillaume_> ok while i am here
[00:55] <guillaume_> this bug was discovered while I was actually trying to make a LT2600 work with edubuntu
[00:55] <guillaume_> I managed to make my wyse s10 work but the lt2600 still isnt working
[00:56] <guillaume_> obviously like with most thin client, the xorg -configure doenst work
[00:56] <guillaume_> so I have to point to a xorg.conf file in the the lts.conf file
[00:57] <guillaume_> the wyse s10 and the lt2600 both use amd geode processor
[00:57] <guillaume_> so specifying the amd driver solved it for the s10 but not for the lt2600
[00:58] <guillaume_> the lt2600 has a amd geode lx800 processor
[00:58] <guillaume_> it just hangs when trying to start the xserver on the client
[00:58] <guillaume_> screen goes black and keyborad stop responding
[00:59] <guillaume_> I feel like I am talking to myself...
[00:59] <stgraber> sort of :) I'm busy testing the remaining ISOs for Alpha4 (to be released today)
[00:59] <guillaume_> ok
[01:00] <guillaume_> btw i tryed testing the alpha3 and it could not buil the ltsp chroot for some reason
[01:00] <guillaume_> I only tried the 64 bit version
[01:09] <guillaume_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/151503
[01:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151503 in ltsp "ltsp scripts dont work properly if chroot basedir is a symlink" [Wishlist,In progress]
[01:10] <guillaume_> could my problem be this?
[01:12] <stgraber> is you chroot basedir a symlink ?
[03:23] <IsleVegan> is there an issue booting an ebox 3800 (via 800 mhz) from a dual processor amd64 x2 with edubuntu 7.10. the thin client gets an ip address via dhcp from one of the server's 2 ethernet cables then I get "pxe-t01: file not found" and then "pxe-e3b: tftp error - file not found" and then "PXE-M0F: Exiting Intel PXE ROM"
[03:24] <IsleVegan> this might be relevant: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2006-August/000214.html
[03:24] <IsleVegan> ?
[03:38] <IsleVegan> should i do this: "sudo rm -r /opt/ltsp/amd64" and then this "sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386"? does the amd64 folder need to be removed?
[03:40] <LaserJock> that would create a i386 chroot
[03:40] <IsleVegan> i'm new to ltsp / edubuntu
[03:40] <IsleVegan> i use ubuntu / xubuntu at home
[03:40] <IsleVegan> but this is new to me
[03:40] <LaserJock> and I don't do much with LTSP so I might not be much help :-)
[03:40] <IsleVegan> ok
[03:41] <IsleVegan> that's what this room is for, right?
[03:43] <IsleVegan> i have the ethernet cable going directly from the thin client to one of the server's ethernet ports, wasn't sure if that would work without a hub / switch or crossover cable between but if it gets a dhcp address i guess it's ok
[03:43] <IsleVegan> right?
[03:57] <LaserJock> actually, you could also ask the #ltsp channel
[03:57] <LaserJock> ahh
[03:57] <LaserJock> you need a switch or crossover cable
[03:57] <LaserJock> it won't work directly over a regular ethernet cable
[04:08] <IsleVegan> hmm
[04:12] <LaserJock> IsleVegan: I ran into that when I first tried LTSP
[04:12] <LaserJock> then I got a crossover cable and it worked
[04:15] <IsleVegan> well, it did get a dhcp address the way it is connected
[04:15] <IsleVegan> i don't have a crossover cable or switch here, just a router, and i'm not sure if the router can do that
[04:17] <IsleVegan> so, i'm trying it this way for now, until i can get a switch / crossover cable, i guess
[04:33] <IsleVegan> it booted up to the spinning gnome cursor
[04:33] <IsleVegan> saw the EDUBUNTU graphic
[04:33] <IsleVegan> now there is just the spinning cursor in the middle of the display, then a flash and a brief moment of the login screen then repeat
[04:34] <IsleVegan> and it's repeating continuously, like there might be a gui / x / gdm issue?
[04:44] <sickonnet> hiii
[04:44] <sickonnet> how to make support for printer on ltsp gutsy
[04:49] <LaserJock> IsleVegan: that could be. You might want to email edubuntu-users (you can find it on http://lists.ubuntu.com)
[04:54] <IsleVegan> ok, thanks, but you learned something too. that it is bootable when connected directly, possibly with the right hardware
[04:58] <IsleVegan> YAY :-)
[10:44] <Erik1> i installed ubuntu desktop from a cd i burned from the dowload site of ubuntu. it installed ok and I added some stuff with synaptic. All this yesyerday evening. Now I boot up and my installation shows I have EDUBUNTU. what's the deal here ???
[13:22] <Nubae> I have a silly question (maybe)... If I have a fat client environment (ltsp with whole edubuntu environment in it) can I update that environment via synaptic from the fat client itself... or does it have to be done in the chroot on the server?
[13:27] <laga> um. if you're using squashfs, you can't update it from the client
[13:31] <Nubae> yeah am, so how could I change it to so that is possible?
[13:32] <laga> you can change your client to boot from the chroot iself, eg export it over NFS. i think you can do that by setting an environment variable somewhere..
[13:32] <laga> but to be honest, i wouldn't do that
[13:32] <Nubae> what I'm ideally looking for is, start up via ltsp from server with full ubuntu environment (local apps, devices, etc) but still be able to centrally manage...
[13:32] <laga> a) NFS doesn't work well with unionfs
[13:33] <laga> b) NFS is slower for booting
[13:33] <laga> IIRC
[13:33] <laga> what do you want to manage centrally?
[13:33] <Nubae> installations
[13:34] <Nubae> of apps, user management, etc... as much as possible really
[13:34] <laga> ah
[13:35] <Nubae> what about loading a generic part via squashfs and then the rest via nfs?
[13:35] <laga> well, why don't you just do that on the server and run ltsp-update-image?
[13:35] <Nubae> the machines are all the same
[13:35] <laga> how do you save files on the fat client, btw?
[13:35] <Nubae> memory stick, nfs mounted home
[13:35] <laga> ah
[13:36] <Nubae> but its not ideal yet... it works, but with many issues
[13:36] <laga> if my patches are accept for hardy, you'll be able to have a writable layer on top of the squashfs. well, actually, that's what's happening currently, but the changes are discared as soon as you reboot
[13:37] <Nubae> wow, that is cool indeed
[13:37] <laga> is does have its issues, too. eg you shouldn't run the package manager on the fat client or you'll run into issues as soon as you update the squashfs.
[13:38] <Nubae> yeah, its all new territory...
[13:38] <laga> Nubae: my suggestion for you right now is that you just chroot into the chroot, apply your changes, exit, and run ltsp-update-image
[13:38] <laga> that's cumbersome but the cleanest way i can think of
[13:38] <Nubae> thats what I currently do ;-)
[13:38] <laga> ah.
[13:39] <laga> disclaimer: i have never really used LTSP, i just hack it for fat client support
[13:39] <Nubae> oh cool, well I'm testing fat stuff a lot at the moment...
[13:40] <Nubae> I tried a full edubuntu-desktop apt-get but that didnt work out in the startup phases.... the init scripts freeze the startup
[13:40] <Nubae> so I tried a minimal install with a xfce desktop, and taht worked
[13:40] <Nubae> authenticating via ldap
[13:40] <laga> ldap? cool, never used that
[13:41] <laga> i suggest you search the wiki, there's a switch that'll let you use NFS
[13:42] <Nubae> I'm just working on a fat client howto... I'll show you when its done, maybe you can advise me on what should be changed
[13:42] <laga> but be warned, it's likely that it'll break unionfs with the current gutsy kernel. it should be fixed in the kernel that currently is in gutsy-proposed.
[13:42] <Nubae> I'll do that...
[13:42] <laga> Nubae: um
[13:42] <laga> Nubae: never mind. even if you use NFS; you'll still not be able to commit changes. i think
[13:42] <laga> not with unionfs on top of that
[13:42] <Nubae> its not that important... I was just wondering...
[13:43] <Nubae> apt-getting the chroot is easy enough
[13:43] <laga> yup
[13:43] <Nubae> i just hate having to build the image every time
[13:43] <Nubae> sometimes teh changes are so minimal
[13:43] <laga> Nubae: my "fat clients" are really just media centre pcs (mythtv frontends for mythbuntu), so it's a lot less complicated
[13:43] <laga> Nubae: i hear ya.
[13:44] <laga> i love it when i run ltsp-update-image instead of ltsp-update-kernel, too :/
[13:44] <Nubae> so how are your clients fat, just kernel and module changes?
[13:45] <laga> Nubae: "fat" means, by my definition, that the client does all the work
[13:45] <laga> eg video display
[13:45] <Nubae> yeah right, local apps and local devices
[13:46] <Nubae> so you installed the entire edubuntu-desktop successfully in the chroot?
[13:46] <laga> no. i installed mythbuntu-desktop. :)
[13:46] <laga> i created a plugin for ltsp-build-client
[13:46] <laga> based off the kiosk mode
[13:47] <Nubae> ah ok, I'm not sure what mythbuntu is
[13:47] <laga> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-diskless/annotate/laga%40prometheus-20080202002313-zpo3cpwwduycc4iy?file_id=30mythtv-20080117192245-pp5zhqeqyyhjciwx-1
[13:47] <laga> Nubae: a HTPC distribution based on ubuntu and mythtv
[13:47] <laga> Nubae: think tivo on steroids
[13:48] <Nubae> ah, and you autologin so no need for authentication?
[13:48] <laga> kind of
[13:49] <laga> i created a --mythbuntu-copy-user-credentials switch which just copies user and password from the user running ltsp-build-client
[13:49] <laga> you can also just pass in a password using --mythbuntu-user-credentials user:pass
[13:50] <Nubae> hmmm... you're script is a good base for other fat environments
[13:51] <laga> thanks. as i said, i just added stuff to the kiosk mode :)
[13:51] <laga> Nubae: what's still missing are the changes i mentioned earlier to have a persistent copy-on-write branch to preserve files over reboots
[13:52] <Nubae> so on startup, what do you not boot from ltsp-client-core?
[13:52] <laga> you mean what i'm not using from it?
[13:52] <Nubae> yeah, did u blacklist anything?
[13:53] <laga> i don't remember what it does, i just remember i don't need it
[13:54] <laga> i think it sets up stuff like sound and local devices
[13:54] <Nubae> I run into problems with ltsp-client-core on startup... system freezes bootup process, but cant pin point exactly where
[13:54] <Nubae> just know its around the ltsp-client-core setup phase
[13:55] <laga> remove it temporarily and try again
[13:55] <laga> as you can see i removed it completely
[13:56] <Nubae> EARLY_PACKAGES="ltsp-client"  - what does that do?
[13:57] <laga> it tells ltsp-build-client to install ltsp-client before most of the other packagres i assume
[13:59] <laga> i also added RC6_WHITELIST="reboot alsa-utils" because i don't want to be yelled at when volume settings are not preserved across reboots
[13:59] <Nubae> yeah, guess that makes sense... well, I'm doing this at the moment: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/fati386 apt-get install edubuntu-addon-light gdm network-manager gnome-mount firefox openoffice.org
[14:00] <Nubae> that and ldap
[14:00] <laga> yeah, that works as well i suppose
[14:00] <laga> you just have all the ltsp-specific stuff still in there
[14:00] <Nubae> but somewhere between that and apt-get install edubuntu-desktop something breaks
[14:00] <laga> do you get a error message when booting or when installing?
[14:01] <Nubae> not installation wise, but trying to startup... I cant get to the error messages
[14:01] <Nubae> I took out quiet and splash from pxelinux.cfg
[14:01] <Nubae> goes through, almost to the end, and then just sits there... can't even login with root...
[14:02] <laga> remove the ltsp-client-core startup links in /etc/rc2.d/ and try again.. not sure if it helps. also get a backup so you don't break anything :)
[14:03] <Nubae> hehe, I have 3 fat chroot at the moment, all in various stages
[14:04] <Nubae> I tried moving the rc2.d ltsp-client-core startup up after gdm
[14:04] <Nubae> that didnt help
[14:04] <laga> do you actually need ltsp-client-core?
[14:04] <Nubae> well, haven't really thought about it, maybe, maybe not
[14:04] <Nubae> I'm gonna take a look at it... but still, I think its stopping before it gets to that
[14:09] <Nubae> whats the best way to test this, take out startup scripts from the runlevels?
[14:09] <laga> rm :)
[14:09] <Nubae> u mean mv ../someplaceforbackup/
[14:09] <Nubae> :-)
[14:12] <laga> sure.
[14:12] <laga> %)
[14:13] <Nubae> well, you're script has given me some ideas... I'll start with a howto though... then move to a script :-p
[14:13] <laga> i'm glad it's helping you
[14:14] <laga> i hope i can submit my initramfs patches this weekend so you (I ;)) can have persistent directories for changes
[14:14] <Nubae> so what's your audience for this mythtv thing?
[14:15] <laga> everyone who uses mythbuntu ;)) heh
[14:15] <laga> it's for everyone who has a TV card and wants to have a powerful PVR to record things for him
[14:16] <Nubae> ah mythbuntu is a distro?
[14:16] <laga> it's also for people who want to have a complete media centre solution, eg it also has a UI to put on the TV
[14:16] <laga> yes
[14:16]  * Nubae is a little slow today
[14:17] <laga> :)
[14:17] <Nubae> hmmm, I just took out ltsp-client-core and system freezes at Starting up log daemon
[14:18] <Nubae> I don't get it... I'm gonna have to document every detailed change and then rebuild the image until I get to what is doing this
[14:19] <laga> :/
[14:19] <laga> maybe you can install a sshd
[14:19] <laga> and log in
[14:19] <Nubae> I've tried that, I can't even ping the machine when it gets to the freeze point
[14:19] <laga> :/
[14:20] <laga> i wonder if that's caused by unionfs
[14:20] <Nubae> if I could log in as root i could check the logs
[14:20]  * laga tends to blame unionfs for everything
[14:20] <Nubae> maybe, but why?
[14:20] <Nubae> hehe, yeah skapegoat is always good
[14:20] <Nubae> if there is a solution on the horizon
[14:20] <Nubae> :-)
[14:21] <Nubae> thats why I thought, startup with unionfs, then move over to nfs
[14:21] <laga> :)
[14:21] <laga> if it was unionfs, the new kernel in gutsy-proposed would likely help
[14:21] <laga> don't blame me if it doesn't help, though :)
[14:22] <Nubae> whats gutsy-proposed?
[14:22] <laga> if you check your /etc/apt/sources.list
[14:23] <laga> you can see it says things like http://some.mirror/ubuntu gutsy main restricted
[14:23] <laga> if you add another line saying "gutsy-proposed" instead of just "gutsy", you get stuff from gutsy-proposed. it contains packages which might eventually come into gutsy-updates once they're deemed stable enough.
[14:23] <laga> hint hint: they might break  stuff :)
[14:24] <Nubae> righto, ok, didnt know that repository existed
[14:24] <laga> i'm assuming you're running gutsy.
[14:24] <Nubae> I'm gonna install alpha4 now anyway, so I'll test with that
[14:24] <Nubae> yeah I am
[14:25] <laga> not sure if alpha4 is fixed yet
[14:26] <Nubae> fixed? whats wrong with it? I have a recent daily build ogra told me is stable enough
[14:26] <laga> ah
[14:26] <laga> well, with regards to unionfs. if that ever was your problem, that is
[14:26]  * laga ponders
[14:26]  * laga thinks hard
[14:27] <Nubae> yeah sure gonna try it, I need a solution, because I have 21 dual core intel pcs with 2 gigs of ram sitting here running as ltsp thin clients
[14:27] <laga> not, that really shouldn't be the problem. unless you boot from nfs instead of squashfs
[14:27] <laga> haha :)
[14:27] <laga> nice setup
[14:27] <Nubae> yeah, the school has been moaning at me for a while now about this
[14:27] <Nubae> bandwidth lockups with multimedia, flash, shockwave
[14:28] <laga> :/
[14:28] <Nubae> ah, and they are laptops, lol
[14:29] <laga> laptops.. school..
[14:29] <laga> let me guess, they're chained to the desks?
[14:30] <laga> they computer lab at my school were a bunch of durons on VIA boards running win 98 or ME
[14:30] <laga> i often wished i could just raid the place with some ltsp ninjas
[14:32] <Nubae> yep chained indded
[14:33] <Nubae> they spent over 1000 euros per laptop, just to see them used as thin clients chained to desks
[14:33] <Nubae> bought because the 'looked good'
[14:33] <laga> it's not much better if they're fat clients chained to desks
[14:33] <laga> ouch.
[14:34] <laga> a used thin client + new LC display  is like 300€ i guess..
[14:34] <Nubae> I just bought 20 old p3 500mhz for 200 euros
[14:34] <Nubae> sorry 400
[14:34] <Nubae> in total
[14:35] <laga> nice
[14:35] <Nubae> many companies are just trying to get rid of their older stuff and will even pay people to do it... I fantasised about starting a ltsp based company that did something with that
[14:36] <Nubae> u know, took from the rich and gave to the poor :p
[14:36] <Nubae> call it robinhoontu
[14:37] <laga> hehe
[14:37] <laga> i think there's something like that in the US...
[14:38] <laga> http://freegeek.org/
[14:38] <Nubae> r u in the US?
[14:38] <laga> no
[14:38] <laga> germany
[14:39] <Nubae> ah, I'm in Spain myself... think it will be some time before something like that is possible here
[14:41] <laga> yup
[14:44] <laga> spain. </jealousy>
[14:44]  * laga goes out a bit :)
[14:47] <Nubae> South of Spain even ;
[20:15] <Guil-T> i have a thin client with a geode gx processor, it suport good rez and all but graphics are extremely slow
[20:15] <Guil-T> are there some tweeks i can try to boost performance
[20:16] <Guil-T> even the desktop is slow and choppy
[23:11] <markvandenborre> I have a bit of trouble with undisciplined users not closing down their sessions
[23:11] <markvandenborre> and load going up to > 10
[23:11] <markvandenborre> the human approach doesn't seem to be working yet
[23:12] <markvandenborre> I wonder if it would be useful to kill all processes with uid > 999 every night
[23:12] <markvandenborre> no one is ever doing anything late at night
[23:12] <markvandenborre> or would you suggest other, more gentle stopgap solutions
[23:20] <stgraber> markvandenborre: you may want interested in xterminator, haven't used it though but it looks like what you are looking for
[23:21] <stgraber> https://edge.launchpad.net/xterminator
[23:21] <stgraber> s/edge\.// if you are not beta tester
[23:31] <markvandenborre> stgraber: will have a look
[23:33] <markvandenborre> the thing is it doesn't need a lot of idle users
[23:33] <markvandenborre> to make the load go up incredibly high
[23:33] <markvandenborre> idle or logged out ones
[23:33] <markvandenborre> so if 2 or 3 are still there, this one is not a solution
[23:34] <markvandenborre> 2 or 3 nautilus instances, I mean, because the load will go up to > 3, 4, 10 sometimes
[23:34] <markvandenborre> but thanks for the suggestion anyway
[23:34] <markvandenborre> !
[23:35] <markvandenborre> (btw, this is rather beefy hardware, dual quadcore xeon with 4Gb of ram and 15k rpm hardware raid 5 disks
[23:35] <markvandenborre> )
[23:35] <markvandenborre> so that's not the problem either