[00:42] ogra you there? [00:44] guillaume_: it's 01:42 at GMT+1 [00:45] he'll be on in the morning in Germany [00:45] hehe allright [00:47] I submitted the bug report [00:48] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/188223 [00:48] Launchpad bug 188223 in ltsp "CHROOT will not upgrade" [Undecided,New] [00:48] I saw it [00:48] :-) [00:48] k [00:49] i was wondering if it was good practice to use the pastebin in a bug report [00:49] no, not really [00:50] usually you create a text file, then attach it to the bug [00:50] is the pastebin reseted once in a while? [00:50] some pastebin doesn't keep the history for long [00:50] ok ill attach a text file then [00:54] ok while i am here [00:55] this bug was discovered while I was actually trying to make a LT2600 work with edubuntu [00:55] I managed to make my wyse s10 work but the lt2600 still isnt working [00:56] obviously like with most thin client, the xorg -configure doenst work [00:56] so I have to point to a xorg.conf file in the the lts.conf file [00:57] the wyse s10 and the lt2600 both use amd geode processor [00:57] so specifying the amd driver solved it for the s10 but not for the lt2600 [00:58] the lt2600 has a amd geode lx800 processor [00:58] it just hangs when trying to start the xserver on the client [00:58] screen goes black and keyborad stop responding [00:59] I feel like I am talking to myself... [00:59] sort of :) I'm busy testing the remaining ISOs for Alpha4 (to be released today) [00:59] ok [01:00] btw i tryed testing the alpha3 and it could not buil the ltsp chroot for some reason [01:00] I only tried the 64 bit version [01:09] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/151503 [01:09] Launchpad bug 151503 in ltsp "ltsp scripts dont work properly if chroot basedir is a symlink" [Wishlist,In progress] [01:10] could my problem be this? [01:12] is you chroot basedir a symlink ? [03:23] is there an issue booting an ebox 3800 (via 800 mhz) from a dual processor amd64 x2 with edubuntu 7.10. the thin client gets an ip address via dhcp from one of the server's 2 ethernet cables then I get "pxe-t01: file not found" and then "pxe-e3b: tftp error - file not found" and then "PXE-M0F: Exiting Intel PXE ROM" [03:24] this might be relevant: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2006-August/000214.html [03:24] ? [03:38] should i do this: "sudo rm -r /opt/ltsp/amd64" and then this "sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386"? does the amd64 folder need to be removed? [03:40] that would create a i386 chroot [03:40] i'm new to ltsp / edubuntu [03:40] i use ubuntu / xubuntu at home [03:40] but this is new to me [03:40] and I don't do much with LTSP so I might not be much help :-) [03:40] ok [03:41] that's what this room is for, right? [03:43] i have the ethernet cable going directly from the thin client to one of the server's ethernet ports, wasn't sure if that would work without a hub / switch or crossover cable between but if it gets a dhcp address i guess it's ok [03:43] right? [03:57] actually, you could also ask the #ltsp channel [03:57] ahh [03:57] you need a switch or crossover cable [03:57] it won't work directly over a regular ethernet cable [04:08] hmm [04:12] IsleVegan: I ran into that when I first tried LTSP [04:12] then I got a crossover cable and it worked [04:15] well, it did get a dhcp address the way it is connected [04:15] i don't have a crossover cable or switch here, just a router, and i'm not sure if the router can do that [04:17] so, i'm trying it this way for now, until i can get a switch / crossover cable, i guess [04:33] it booted up to the spinning gnome cursor [04:33] saw the EDUBUNTU graphic [04:33] now there is just the spinning cursor in the middle of the display, then a flash and a brief moment of the login screen then repeat [04:34] and it's repeating continuously, like there might be a gui / x / gdm issue? [04:44] hiii [04:44] how to make support for printer on ltsp gutsy [04:49] IsleVegan: that could be. You might want to email edubuntu-users (you can find it on http://lists.ubuntu.com) [04:54] ok, thanks, but you learned something too. that it is bootable when connected directly, possibly with the right hardware [04:58] YAY :-) === guillaume is now known as guillaume_ === guillaume_ is now known as Guil-T === nixternal_ is now known as nixternal [10:44] i installed ubuntu desktop from a cd i burned from the dowload site of ubuntu. it installed ok and I added some stuff with synaptic. All this yesyerday evening. Now I boot up and my installation shows I have EDUBUNTU. what's the deal here ??? === juliux_ is now known as juliux [13:22] I have a silly question (maybe)... If I have a fat client environment (ltsp with whole edubuntu environment in it) can I update that environment via synaptic from the fat client itself... or does it have to be done in the chroot on the server? [13:27] um. if you're using squashfs, you can't update it from the client [13:31] yeah am, so how could I change it to so that is possible? [13:32] you can change your client to boot from the chroot iself, eg export it over NFS. i think you can do that by setting an environment variable somewhere.. [13:32] but to be honest, i wouldn't do that [13:32] what I'm ideally looking for is, start up via ltsp from server with full ubuntu environment (local apps, devices, etc) but still be able to centrally manage... [13:32] a) NFS doesn't work well with unionfs [13:33] b) NFS is slower for booting [13:33] IIRC [13:33] what do you want to manage centrally? [13:33] installations [13:34] of apps, user management, etc... as much as possible really [13:34] ah [13:35] what about loading a generic part via squashfs and then the rest via nfs? [13:35] well, why don't you just do that on the server and run ltsp-update-image? [13:35] the machines are all the same [13:35] how do you save files on the fat client, btw? [13:35] memory stick, nfs mounted home [13:35] ah [13:36] but its not ideal yet... it works, but with many issues [13:36] if my patches are accept for hardy, you'll be able to have a writable layer on top of the squashfs. well, actually, that's what's happening currently, but the changes are discared as soon as you reboot [13:37] wow, that is cool indeed [13:37] is does have its issues, too. eg you shouldn't run the package manager on the fat client or you'll run into issues as soon as you update the squashfs. [13:38] yeah, its all new territory... [13:38] Nubae: my suggestion for you right now is that you just chroot into the chroot, apply your changes, exit, and run ltsp-update-image [13:38] that's cumbersome but the cleanest way i can think of [13:38] thats what I currently do ;-) [13:38] ah. [13:39] disclaimer: i have never really used LTSP, i just hack it for fat client support [13:39] oh cool, well I'm testing fat stuff a lot at the moment... [13:40] I tried a full edubuntu-desktop apt-get but that didnt work out in the startup phases.... the init scripts freeze the startup [13:40] so I tried a minimal install with a xfce desktop, and taht worked [13:40] authenticating via ldap [13:40] ldap? cool, never used that [13:41] i suggest you search the wiki, there's a switch that'll let you use NFS === ebel_ is now known as ebel [13:42] I'm just working on a fat client howto... I'll show you when its done, maybe you can advise me on what should be changed [13:42] but be warned, it's likely that it'll break unionfs with the current gutsy kernel. it should be fixed in the kernel that currently is in gutsy-proposed. [13:42] I'll do that... [13:42] Nubae: um [13:42] Nubae: never mind. even if you use NFS; you'll still not be able to commit changes. i think [13:42] not with unionfs on top of that [13:42] its not that important... I was just wondering... [13:43] apt-getting the chroot is easy enough [13:43] yup [13:43] i just hate having to build the image every time [13:43] sometimes teh changes are so minimal [13:43] Nubae: my "fat clients" are really just media centre pcs (mythtv frontends for mythbuntu), so it's a lot less complicated [13:43] Nubae: i hear ya. [13:44] i love it when i run ltsp-update-image instead of ltsp-update-kernel, too :/ [13:44] so how are your clients fat, just kernel and module changes? [13:45] Nubae: "fat" means, by my definition, that the client does all the work [13:45] eg video display [13:45] yeah right, local apps and local devices [13:46] so you installed the entire edubuntu-desktop successfully in the chroot? [13:46] no. i installed mythbuntu-desktop. :) [13:46] i created a plugin for ltsp-build-client [13:46] based off the kiosk mode [13:47] ah ok, I'm not sure what mythbuntu is [13:47] http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-diskless/annotate/laga%40prometheus-20080202002313-zpo3cpwwduycc4iy?file_id=30mythtv-20080117192245-pp5zhqeqyyhjciwx-1 [13:47] Nubae: a HTPC distribution based on ubuntu and mythtv [13:47] Nubae: think tivo on steroids [13:48] ah, and you autologin so no need for authentication? [13:48] kind of [13:49] i created a --mythbuntu-copy-user-credentials switch which just copies user and password from the user running ltsp-build-client [13:49] you can also just pass in a password using --mythbuntu-user-credentials user:pass [13:50] hmmm... you're script is a good base for other fat environments [13:51] thanks. as i said, i just added stuff to the kiosk mode :) [13:51] Nubae: what's still missing are the changes i mentioned earlier to have a persistent copy-on-write branch to preserve files over reboots [13:52] so on startup, what do you not boot from ltsp-client-core? [13:52] you mean what i'm not using from it? [13:52] yeah, did u blacklist anything? [13:53] i don't remember what it does, i just remember i don't need it [13:54] i think it sets up stuff like sound and local devices [13:54] I run into problems with ltsp-client-core on startup... system freezes bootup process, but cant pin point exactly where [13:54] just know its around the ltsp-client-core setup phase [13:55] remove it temporarily and try again [13:55] as you can see i removed it completely [13:56] EARLY_PACKAGES="ltsp-client" - what does that do? [13:57] it tells ltsp-build-client to install ltsp-client before most of the other packagres i assume [13:59] i also added RC6_WHITELIST="reboot alsa-utils" because i don't want to be yelled at when volume settings are not preserved across reboots [13:59] yeah, guess that makes sense... well, I'm doing this at the moment: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/fati386 apt-get install edubuntu-addon-light gdm network-manager gnome-mount firefox openoffice.org [14:00] that and ldap [14:00] yeah, that works as well i suppose [14:00] you just have all the ltsp-specific stuff still in there [14:00] but somewhere between that and apt-get install edubuntu-desktop something breaks [14:00] do you get a error message when booting or when installing? [14:01] not installation wise, but trying to startup... I cant get to the error messages [14:01] I took out quiet and splash from pxelinux.cfg [14:01] goes through, almost to the end, and then just sits there... can't even login with root... [14:02] remove the ltsp-client-core startup links in /etc/rc2.d/ and try again.. not sure if it helps. also get a backup so you don't break anything :) [14:03] hehe, I have 3 fat chroot at the moment, all in various stages [14:04] I tried moving the rc2.d ltsp-client-core startup up after gdm [14:04] that didnt help [14:04] do you actually need ltsp-client-core? [14:04] well, haven't really thought about it, maybe, maybe not [14:04] I'm gonna take a look at it... but still, I think its stopping before it gets to that [14:09] whats the best way to test this, take out startup scripts from the runlevels? [14:09] rm :) [14:09] u mean mv ../someplaceforbackup/ [14:09] :-) [14:12] sure. [14:12] %) [14:13] well, you're script has given me some ideas... I'll start with a howto though... then move to a script :-p [14:13] i'm glad it's helping you [14:14] i hope i can submit my initramfs patches this weekend so you (I ;)) can have persistent directories for changes [14:14] so what's your audience for this mythtv thing? [14:15] everyone who uses mythbuntu ;)) heh [14:15] it's for everyone who has a TV card and wants to have a powerful PVR to record things for him [14:16] ah mythbuntu is a distro? [14:16] it's also for people who want to have a complete media centre solution, eg it also has a UI to put on the TV [14:16] yes [14:16] * Nubae is a little slow today [14:17] :) [14:17] hmmm, I just took out ltsp-client-core and system freezes at Starting up log daemon [14:18] I don't get it... I'm gonna have to document every detailed change and then rebuild the image until I get to what is doing this [14:19] :/ [14:19] maybe you can install a sshd [14:19] and log in [14:19] I've tried that, I can't even ping the machine when it gets to the freeze point [14:19] :/ [14:20] i wonder if that's caused by unionfs [14:20] if I could log in as root i could check the logs [14:20] * laga tends to blame unionfs for everything [14:20] maybe, but why? [14:20] hehe, yeah skapegoat is always good [14:20] if there is a solution on the horizon [14:20] :-) [14:21] thats why I thought, startup with unionfs, then move over to nfs [14:21] :) [14:21] if it was unionfs, the new kernel in gutsy-proposed would likely help [14:21] don't blame me if it doesn't help, though :) [14:22] whats gutsy-proposed? [14:22] if you check your /etc/apt/sources.list [14:23] you can see it says things like http://some.mirror/ubuntu gutsy main restricted [14:23] if you add another line saying "gutsy-proposed" instead of just "gutsy", you get stuff from gutsy-proposed. it contains packages which might eventually come into gutsy-updates once they're deemed stable enough. [14:23] hint hint: they might break stuff :) [14:24] righto, ok, didnt know that repository existed [14:24] i'm assuming you're running gutsy. [14:24] I'm gonna install alpha4 now anyway, so I'll test with that [14:24] yeah I am [14:25] not sure if alpha4 is fixed yet [14:26] fixed? whats wrong with it? I have a recent daily build ogra told me is stable enough [14:26] ah [14:26] well, with regards to unionfs. if that ever was your problem, that is [14:26] * laga ponders [14:26] * laga thinks hard [14:27] yeah sure gonna try it, I need a solution, because I have 21 dual core intel pcs with 2 gigs of ram sitting here running as ltsp thin clients [14:27] not, that really shouldn't be the problem. unless you boot from nfs instead of squashfs [14:27] haha :) [14:27] nice setup [14:27] yeah, the school has been moaning at me for a while now about this [14:27] bandwidth lockups with multimedia, flash, shockwave [14:28] :/ [14:28] ah, and they are laptops, lol [14:29] laptops.. school.. [14:29] let me guess, they're chained to the desks? [14:30] they computer lab at my school were a bunch of durons on VIA boards running win 98 or ME [14:30] i often wished i could just raid the place with some ltsp ninjas [14:32] yep chained indded [14:33] they spent over 1000 euros per laptop, just to see them used as thin clients chained to desks [14:33] bought because the 'looked good' [14:33] it's not much better if they're fat clients chained to desks [14:33] ouch. [14:34] a used thin client + new LC display is like 300€ i guess.. [14:34] I just bought 20 old p3 500mhz for 200 euros [14:34] sorry 400 [14:34] in total [14:35] nice [14:35] many companies are just trying to get rid of their older stuff and will even pay people to do it... I fantasised about starting a ltsp based company that did something with that [14:36] u know, took from the rich and gave to the poor :p [14:36] call it robinhoontu [14:37] hehe [14:37] i think there's something like that in the US... [14:38] http://freegeek.org/ [14:38] r u in the US? [14:38] no [14:38] germany [14:39] ah, I'm in Spain myself... think it will be some time before something like that is possible here [14:41] yup [14:44] spain. [14:44] * laga goes out a bit :) [14:47] South of Spain even ; === ebel_ is now known as ebel [20:15] i have a thin client with a geode gx processor, it suport good rez and all but graphics are extremely slow [20:15] are there some tweeks i can try to boost performance [20:16] even the desktop is slow and choppy [23:11] I have a bit of trouble with undisciplined users not closing down their sessions [23:11] and load going up to > 10 [23:11] the human approach doesn't seem to be working yet [23:12] I wonder if it would be useful to kill all processes with uid > 999 every night [23:12] no one is ever doing anything late at night [23:12] or would you suggest other, more gentle stopgap solutions [23:20] markvandenborre: you may want interested in xterminator, haven't used it though but it looks like what you are looking for [23:21] https://edge.launchpad.net/xterminator [23:21] s/edge\.// if you are not beta tester [23:31] stgraber: will have a look [23:33] the thing is it doesn't need a lot of idle users [23:33] to make the load go up incredibly high [23:33] idle or logged out ones [23:33] so if 2 or 3 are still there, this one is not a solution [23:34] 2 or 3 nautilus instances, I mean, because the load will go up to > 3, 4, 10 sometimes [23:34] but thanks for the suggestion anyway [23:34] ! [23:35] (btw, this is rather beefy hardware, dual quadcore xeon with 4Gb of ram and 15k rpm hardware raid 5 disks [23:35] ) [23:35] so that's not the problem either