[00:00] <LaserJock> anybody know how to tell what package a python lib comes from based on the import statement?
[00:01] <goobsoft> I'm looking at the changelog file for pwsafe to see how they do versions for multiple distributions.  How can it be that the changelog doesn't explicitly have a version for gutsy and yet I can find a pwsafe for gutsy when I search for packages on packages.ubuntu.com?  http://pastebin.com/m2edb6f58
[00:01] <desertc> slangasek: Do you think getting 1.2~beta Speex into Hardy is an open possibility over the next two weeks?
[00:01] <slangasek> desertc: if someone does the work, sure :)
[00:02] <desertc> I will certainly see where I can add my assistance to the leg work.
[00:02] <persia> goobsoft: The feisty archive was copied to gutsy as a start, including that package.
[00:02] <tzafrir_home> I guess that the first thing to do is to update speex from experimental to beta3
[00:03] <tzafrir_home> desertc, =^
[00:03] <desertc> tzafrir_home: Do you refer to the Debian packages or Ubuntu packages... or both?
[00:03] <tzafrir_home> well, both
[00:03] <desertc> and if Debian, which repository
[00:04] <slangasek> the Debian packages; Ubuntu has no 'experimental' :)
[00:04] <tzafrir_home> The experimental debian packages are maintained in the pkg-voip svn repo
[00:04] <tzafrir_home> see the link at the bottom of http://packages.debian.org/source/experimental/speex
[00:05] <desertc> So the Debian Experiemental to be brought to beta3, but not the stable?  or did we decide they were the same?
[00:05]  * tzafrir_home wishes buildserver.net would be working again
[00:05] <slangasek> desertc: do you mean unstable rather than stable?
[00:06] <tzafrir_home> At this point it is time to device how to split libspeex and libspeexdsp
[00:06] <desertc> yes, unstable
[00:06] <desertc> I will follow up with this task off-line.  Don't want to get in the way of continued discussion.
[00:06]  * desertc marks down his action-item.
[00:08] <goobsoft> ok
[00:08] <goobsoft> persia: thanks
[00:16] <slicer> I'll have to leave, but I'll stay connected so just send me a message if there's anything I can do.
[00:16] <slicer> I'll see you all tomorrow :)
[00:16] <desertc> Thanks for your time tonight, slicer.
[00:19] <desertc> slangasek tzafrir_home jmspeex : Seems to me, this conversation has resolved some issues - or at least brought some items to light.  I will follow up with tzafrir_home on the Debian package, and I think slicer and jmspeex have some things to discuss, in terms of opening a new library interface.
[00:19] <desertc> Also, I will document the need for the Proprietary term to be removed from the Mumble documentation through the Ubuntu bug report
[00:20] <desertc> Thanks everyone for your time in helping us discuss this topic that will allow increased Speex and voice functionality in Debian and Ubuntu.
[00:21] <losh> Hello, where is the best place to get help building deb packages?
[00:25] <persia> Here is a good place to get help, but one has to be around a while to get an answer sometimes :(
[00:30] <goobsoft> I'm using pbuilder to test my package dependencies and one of the dependencies is sun-java6-bin.  Is there an issue with this because the package requires an acceptance of terms before installing?
[00:32] <goobsoft> snip...
[00:32] <goobsoft> http://pastebin.com/m638dc9f8
[00:32] <goobsoft> how would I dpkg-reconfigure debconf from within the pbuilder env?
[00:36] <blueyed> goobsoft: you cannot use sun-java6 as build dependency, because it requires to accept a license.
[00:36] <goobsoft> doh
[00:36] <blueyed> try icedtea-java-7
[00:37] <goobsoft> ok, I'm really excited about this whole icedtea deal...
[00:38] <blueyed> yes, it's a good thing for java to have it "open".
[00:39] <blueyed> goobsoft: about the distribution in changelogs: packages can also be synced, then there's no ubuntu version name in the changelog
[00:40] <goobsoft> ok
[00:43] <desertc> blueyed: Isn't Java Free Software now, as of recently?
[00:43] <goobsoft> I didn't know icedtea was in gutsy.. dang.  I'll be interested to see how heavily java is used in the future for ubuntu software now that the license is open.
[00:44] <LaserJock> desertc: it's called IcedTea
[00:44] <goobsoft> I think it's always been free and it's always been open source too, but now the open source license used is OSI approved now.
[00:45] <goobsoft> Not because OSI approved the license, but because they changed to an OSI approved license.
[00:45] <ScottK2> goobsoft: No.  Up until recently it was under restricted licensing.
[00:45] <LaserJock> Free vs free
[00:45] <LaserJock> it was free enough to be in Multiverse
[00:46] <ScottK2> Right.
[00:46] <LaserJock> but no free enough to be in Universe
[00:46] <ScottK2> Nope.
[00:46] <blueyed> it will be called openjdk in the end IIRC
[00:46] <desertc> why is it not free enough for universe?  I was wondering this
[00:46] <blueyed> icedtea is a temporary solution afaik
[00:46] <LaserJock> right now IcedTea is basically free Java7
[00:46] <ScottK2> slangasek: I think I found the libdb4.x-ruby problem.  Upstream uses some long deprecated functions that were removed as of 4.5.
[00:47] <slangasek> ah
[00:47] <slangasek> I lose that bet then :)
[00:48] <ScottK2> Grep and upgrade documentation can do wonders, even when you are severly C impaired.
[00:51] <dcordero> hi
[00:53] <dcordero> that is amazing
[00:54] <ScottK2> What's that?
[00:56] <geser> blueyed: building with sun-java-* on the buildds works for hardy
[00:56] <ScottK2> dcordero: What's amazing?
[00:57] <dcordero> ScottK, add a new language on the .desktop file of the bug that told blueyed
[00:57] <jmspeex> slangasek: Why is it you didn't care the 5 other times you released an incompatible libspeex1 then?
[00:57] <ScottK2> jmspeex: Currently we get speex unmodified from Debian.  Unless pointed to it, we wouldn't have a reason to notice.
[00:57] <jmspeex> (I've seen at least 1.1.6, 1.1.10, 1.1.11 and 1.1.12, all of which were incompatible when it came to the new features)
[00:59] <ScottK2> In the releases that are still supported it's just 1.11 and 1.12
[00:59] <slangasek> jmspeex: edgy, feisty, gutsy, hardy, and etch all have 1.1.12.  everything before that is in the past and not fixable after the fact; we /ought/ to have changed the package names between breezy/sarge and dapper, and between dapper and edgy, but that didn't happen
[01:00] <jmspeex> My concern is that if you keep old versions around for "compatibility reasons", you're carrying bugs you don't have to
[01:01] <jmspeex> i.e. you'll end up breaking more stuff as the apps that only need the codec would still be using the old buggy stuff
[01:02] <blueyed> geser: oh, really? it's a common FTBFS issue, as far as I know. Maybe only for packages in multiverse?
[01:02] <slangasek> jmspeex: huh? I said nothing about keeping old versions around
[01:02] <jmspeex> then what does it change???
[01:03] <blueyed> dcordero: did you mean that I can add a language to your debdiff? I'm a bit concerned, because then it's not really sponsoring, but rather hijacking. But better overall, yes..
[01:03] <slangasek> jmspeex: it changes packages not being silently broken on upgrade.
[01:04] <geser> blueyed: it was solved with debconf preseeding so packages in multiverse can (and also do) use sun-java-*
[01:04] <blueyed> dcordero: I had /query'd you, so your "answer" was a bit out of context here.
[01:04] <slangasek> jmspeex: why do you care how we name our packages?
[01:04] <blueyed> geser: but only in mutiverse then, yes?
[01:04] <geser> blueyed: yes, as sun-java is in multiverse, so everything build-depending is also there
[01:05] <jmspeex> slangasek: because then I'll get flooded with "WTF is speex 2 and is it compatible with my speex 1 phone?"
[01:05] <jmspeex> at least call it libspeex1.2 or something
[01:05] <slangasek> jmspeex: er, I already covered the reasons why "speex2" is wrong
[01:05] <jmspeex> didn't see that
[01:05] <jmspeex> bbl
[01:05] <dcordero> blueyed, i dont care if you add a language, is good for the package and is good for me. But i am not a MOTU, this package need be sponsored, althought i think that it just was synced
[01:05] <slangasek> I said libspeex1debian1, I never advocated libspeex2
[01:10] <minghua> Speaking of which, do we have a universal policy for Debian-specific SONAME naming scheme?
[01:11] <blueyed> dcordero: yes, I've requested the sync. I'm only concerned, because it won't show up on your Launchpad +packages page (as "uploaded" by you), when I change it before uploading. But will do so. Might be a good idea for a new round of desktop translation for "Comment=Read and post to twitter" *g
[01:11]  * minghua finds the libblas.so.3gf SONAME rather ugly.
[01:12] <blueyed> Comment[de]=Lese und schreibe zu Twitter ?
[01:13] <LaserJock> minghua: yucky
[01:13] <dcordero> blueyed, sure, add it. I am sure that i wont be famous by my packages uploaded  :)
[01:15] <blueyed> Can somebody translate "Comment=Read and post to twitter" to something other than ca, de, es, pt?
[01:16] <ion_> Does that mean {Read twitter} and {post to twitter}?
[01:16] <nixternal> Comment[en_US]=Read and post to twitter
[01:16] <nixternal> :p
[01:16] <dcordero> :P
[01:17] <dcordero> is stupid, but i thought the same haha
[01:17] <ion_> Comment[en_BR]=Reade ande poste to twitter
[01:17] <ion_> Whoops, _GB
[01:17] <nixternal> Comment[en_UK]=Read and post to twitter
[01:17] <minghua> blueyed: Are you sure you want a Chinese one?
[01:17] <nixternal> err, GB
[01:17] <nixternal> ion_: hahaha
[01:17] <blueyed> minghua: chinese would be different? ;)
[01:17] <blueyed> minghua: sure.
[01:17] <slangasek> blueyed: I'm not sure how to understand the description.  reading what?
[01:18] <blueyed> slangasek: twitter, it's a "webservice". you post short messages about what you are doing currently.
[01:18] <slangasek> so it's (read and post to) twitter?
[01:19] <slangasek> (I'm familiar with twitter, but ECONTEXT)
[01:19] <blueyed> desktop file
[01:20] <minghua> blueyed: So it is like "read and post messages on twitter platform"?
[01:20] <blueyed> minghua: yes
[01:21] <minghua> blueyed: "在 twitter 上读取和发布消息" would be the simplified Chinese (zh_CN) one.
[01:21] <dcordero> wooo
[01:21] <dcordero> hard language for learn
[01:22] <ion_> fi_FI: Lue ja kirjoita viestejä Twitter-palvelussa. (Direct translation: read and write messages in the Twitter service.)
[01:22] <ion_> Alternative fi_FI: Lue ja kirjoita viestejä Twitter-sivustolla. (Direct translation: read and write messages on the Twitter website.)
[01:24] <blueyed> I hope I got it correct, 上 looks too ascii.
[01:25] <blueyed> ion_: I'll use the first one, thanks, for [fi]
[01:28]  * ScottK2 ponders appropriate fates for upstreams that don't update their apps to not use functions that have been deprecated for FIVE releases....
[01:28] <slangasek> :)
[01:29] <persia> ScottK: Send them a patch :)
[01:30] <Fujitsu> ScottK2: How many releases have they made since it was deprecated?
[01:31] <squentin> (if it's not too late) fr: lire et envoyer des messages sur twitter
[01:32] <ion_> squentin: What about the capitalization?
[01:32] <squentin> Yes, Lire et envoyer des messages sur twitter
[01:32] <ion_> (I’d also capitalize Twitter, since that’s what they do on their website.)
[01:32] <squentin> yes if you say so
[01:32] <ScottK2> Fujitsu: It was debricated in DB4.1 and removed in DB4.5 and upstream's current release still uses it.
[01:33] <ScottK2> So I guess that's 4, not 5
[01:33] <ScottK2> Fortunately Oracle still have 4.0 on their web site so I could at least get the docs.
[01:34] <ScottK2> Actually it was deprecated in 4.0
[01:34] <ScottK2> Undocumented in 4.1 and follow
[01:34] <ion_> But yeah, i just wanted to verify the capitalization of the other words, since they were all lower-case and i have no idea about French capitalization rules (e.g. they might have been like German for all i know).
[01:34] <blueyed> How long does it take for sync'ed packages to appear? pitti had synced some packages 9 hours ago (gtwitter, haskell-html, ..), but they are not available yet in the archive. maybe some problem during the sync process?
[01:34] <slangasek> ion_: they're not, Gott sei dank :)
[01:34] <squentin> Twitter is fine in french
[01:35] <blueyed> squentin: not too late.
[01:35] <Fujitsu> ScottK2: Sorry, I meant how many releases has the upstream that still uses the deprecated stuff made?
[01:35] <ScottK2> persia: Yep.  Once I figure a patch.  It took long enough just to find the relevant API docs.
[01:35] <ScottK2> Ah.
[01:35] <ion_> blueyed: I’d suggest capitalizing Twitter in all translations.
[01:35] <ScottK2> Fujitsu: Several.  I'd have to go look.
[01:35] <Fujitsu> blueyed: Should be immediate (well, after a publisher run), unless slangasek is not being so soft with his freeze.
[01:36] <blueyed> ion_: good point. also in  the original.
[01:36] <joejaxx> hell all i have a scenario :) lets say i am gonig to upload a package where someone has done a substantial amount of work and i want to give credit
[01:36] <joejaxx> bah
[01:36] <joejaxx> hello all*
[01:36] <blueyed> Fujitsu: ah, ok. might be the freeze then. I'll just wait some more then.
[01:37] <Fujitsu> I thought it was unfrozen, but I might head over to LP to check..
[01:37] <joejaxx> does the  [ Person here ] in the changelog accept emails as well? or will it error out
[01:38] <joejaxx> or does anyone have an example changelog where this has been implemented?
[01:39] <LaserJock> how do you mean
[01:40] <Fujitsu> Is that part of the syntax actually enforced?
[01:40] <minghua> joejaxx: No, the names in changelog has nothing to do with receiving emails.
[01:41] <joejaxx> minghua: not not that :P
[01:41] <ScottK2> Fujitsu: More releases than I have fingers and toes.
[01:41] <blueyed> joejaxx, Fujitsu: not enforced, it's free text actually, but common sense to e.g. use stars for bullet point
[01:41] <joejaxx> minghua: i want the information to be there
[01:41] <Fujitsu> ScottK2: Oh dear.
[01:41] <minghua> Fujitsu: I think it's just a convention used by dch.
[01:41] <Fujitsu> blueyed: That's what I thought.
[01:41] <joejaxx> minghua: it does not have anything to do with the transportation of email :P
[01:42] <superm1> joejaxx, Fujitsu that's why some releases people will give a title in quotes near the top before they start bulleting
[01:42] <joejaxx> or brackets
[01:42] <joejaxx> but my question is
[01:42] <joejaxx> will it error with
[01:43] <joejaxx> [ Person Lastname <account@server.tld> ]
[01:43] <joejaxx> :D
[01:43] <blueyed> joejaxx: no
[01:43] <LaserJock> oh, the question is if an email address will bork anything up?
[01:43] <joejaxx> LaserJock: yes
[01:43] <joejaxx> or if that syntax is correct
[01:44] <LaserJock> usually it's just the name
[01:44] <joejaxx> when wanting to include an email along with the person's name
[01:44] <blueyed> joejaxx: there's not syntax really.
[01:44] <joejaxx> oh
[01:44] <joejaxx> interesting
[01:44] <blueyed> s/not/no/
[01:44] <Fujitsu> It's just convention.
[01:44] <LaserJock> well, there is syntax/format in changelog, just not in that part
[01:44] <joejaxx> ok
[01:44] <joejaxx> :)
[01:45] <joejaxx> thanks :D
[01:49] <minghua> LaserJock: Do you know if "two spaces at the beginning of line" is a required syntax for that part?
[01:50] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not positive about that
[01:50] <LaserJock> I know the firs line and last have to be right
[01:50] <LaserJock> *first
[01:50] <LaserJock> but what's inbetween I'm not so sure
[01:50] <joejaxx> it would not look neat if it did not :P
[01:54]  * minghua usually just relies on Vim's syntax highlighting.
[01:54] <LaserJock> joejaxx: it just illustrates the power of peer-pressure and editor syntax highlighting
[01:55] <joejaxx> LaserJock: lol :P
[01:57] <LaserJock> darn, I need a hardware guru or something
[01:57] <LaserJock> my touchpad doesn't seem to respond to tap_to_click gconf setting since I upgraded to Hardy
[02:01] <minghua> Hmm, I didn't know there is a gconf setting for that.
[02:01] <RAOF> LaserJock: Synaptics touchpad?
[02:02] <LaserJock> I guess so
[02:02] <RAOF> (ie: do you need to make sure SHMConfig is enabled in xorg.conf?)
[02:02] <LaserJock> well, I don't know
[02:02] <LaserJock> I didn't have to do anything in Gutsy
[02:02] <RAOF> Hm.  Probably not, then.
[02:03] <MHz128> I'm having trouble installing U7.1. I've got 1 SATA and 1 IDE drives. When I try to manually partition the IDE drive, I get an error message telling me it can't do it. Any ideas???
[02:04] <ScottK2> MHz128: Ask in #ubuntu.  That's the support channel.
[02:08] <LaserJock> what is up with all the "I'm running version 7.1" lately?
[02:10] <ion_> % units 7.10
[02:10] <ion_>         Definition: 7.1
[02:10] <ubotu> valid types: mass, length, time, scheduling, temperature, temp. diff., current, charge, potential, resistance, conductance, capacitance, magn. flux, inductance, flux density, molecular qty, size of a mol, lum. intens., luminous flux, illuminance, luminance, angle, solid angle, data, data transfer, quantity, interest rate, concentration, force, area, volume, velocity, rot. velocity, fluid flow, gas flow, pressure, (1 more message)
[02:10] <ion_> Uh
[02:10] <joejaxx> lol
[02:10] <RAOF> Probably the "trailing zeros aren't significant after the decimal point" idea.
[02:11] <RAOF> Maybe it should be Ubuntu 7.10x10^0 ;)
[02:11] <ScottK2> Maybe we need #ubuntu-1 for support questions on non-existant releases.
[02:12] <ion_> I’m running 8.04i. It’s imaginary.
[02:12] <LaserJock> can I get the real part of that release?
[02:16] <Fujitsu> Didn't some significant company say recently they were supporting their product on Ubuntu 7?
[02:22] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: *grin*
[02:23] <LaserJock> it just seems like I've only started seeing this 7.1 thing within the last week
[02:24] <LaserJock> I don't remember it so much wen gutsy first came out
[02:24] <Fujitsu> I remember a lot of 6 and 6.1.
[02:25] <minghua> I think I've even seen 7.0.
[02:25] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:26] <ScottK2> And 6.06.2 is a real release number.
[02:26] <ScottK2> So who knows
[02:26] <minghua> Somehow people don't like the second digit after decimal point in version numbers.
[02:27] <minghua> It also doesn't help that a lot of people reference releases by code names (convention from Debian, I suppose).
[02:31] <LaserJock> ScottK2: seems like LP should be smart enough to send a single email with like "You are receiving this email because you are a member of <team> and a direct subscriber"
[02:31] <LaserJock> ScottK2: although, tbh I filter things different and probably would like both emails
[02:45] <ScottK> LaserJock: Smart and LP design aren't two things I routinely associate.
[02:46] <ScottK> Well fixing the obsolete API bits wasn't enough to fix the transaction hang in libdb4.6-ruby, so I'll have to dig some more.
[02:47] <ScottK> slangasek: Would there be any chance of you sponsoring Bug 187892 now that the Alpha release is done?
[02:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 187892 in cyrus-sasl2 "cyrus-sasl2 build-dep on libdb-dev and not libdb4.6-dev" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187892
[03:10] <ScottK> StevenK: Mind if I take a shot at merging Scribus?
[03:11] <ScottK> You touched it last.
[03:11] <jdong> how do you turn a "normal" interdiff back into a human-readable one
[03:11]  * jdong cries
[03:12] <ScottK2> No such thing as human readable interdiff.  that's why we wanted to get away from it.
[03:13] <ScottK2> jdong: I suppose apply the diff and then make a regular diff.gz.
[03:13] <jdong> ScottK2: ok, so just combinediff to generate the new diff.gz then interdiff -p1 between the two?
[03:14] <jdong> I guess that works :)
[03:14] <jdong> I was hoping for more magic (tm)
[03:14] <ScottK2> I don't have any better ideas, but I pretty much stay away from sponsoring recenly when people were using them.
[03:16] <joejaxx> is there a way to see if your upload to a ppa actually made it?
[03:16] <ScottK2> So I'm about to take the plunge and upgrade the old Xandros 3 box that the kids use.
[03:16] <joejaxx> ScottK2: :D
[03:16] <ScottK2> Xandros 3 was a Sarge derivative.
[03:16] <joejaxx> ScottK2: :P
[03:16] <joejaxx> yeap :D
[03:16] <ScottK2> So it'll be Xandros -> Dapper -> Edgy -> Fiesty --> Gutsy
[03:19] <joejaxx> lol that should be interesting
[03:19] <ScottK2> Yeah.  Here goes.
[03:20] <joejaxx> oh nevermind i just received an email about my source package being accepted
[03:20] <joejaxx> woohoo first ppa upload
[03:21] <joejaxx> lol
[03:21] <joejaxx> i guess that is my first taste of how it feels to upload a package
[03:21] <joejaxx> lol :P
[03:21] <joejaxx> i have to wait for this one to build to upload the next, of course that is if the ppa builders actually use the ppa in their source lists
[03:22] <ScottK2> If you need to build-dep on the first one, if your dependencies are correctly versioned it'll just go into dep wait.
[03:22] <joejaxx> oh
[03:22] <joejaxx> nice :D
[03:23] <joejaxx> huzzah
[03:23]  * joejaxx goes to upload another
[03:26] <superm1> ScottK2, i just did (what I think was the first) dapper->hardy jump for a server.  I backported update-manager-core and let loose last night :)
[03:26] <joejaxx> superm1: lol
[03:26] <ScottK2> superm1: In the tests I've done you definitely want to do dapper -> edgy.
[03:27] <superm1> ScottK2, well actually it went fairly smooth
[03:27] <superm1> i had a udev and evms hickup
[03:27] <superm1> but nothing that wasn't resolvable with aptitude
[03:27] <ScottK2> Well they've probably fixed stuff since I tried Dapper --> Gutsy
[03:28]  * ScottK2 doesn't like aptitude.
[03:28] <superm1> i'm hoping that the dist-upgrade logs caught everything though
[03:28] <superm1> well i didn't have a choice since apt-get -f install wouldn't resolve it
[03:28] <superm1> and i was working off ssh
[03:28] <superm1> aptitude figured out the mixup
[03:28] <ScottK2> slangasek: Porting the libdb4.x-ruby upstream to work with is definitely beyond me.
[03:29] <ScottK2> lucas: ^^^ It's not compatible.
[03:31] <ScottK2> Over 900 package updates so far.
[03:37] <superm1> ScottK2, once you catch up to dapper, if you want to give the dapper->hardy a shot, i've put the update-manager-core in dapper-proposed
[03:38] <ScottK2> superm1: I want this one to end up on Gutsy.  My kids use it, so it's not something that should be on a development release.
[03:38] <superm1> and of course the normal GUI update-manager is already in dapper-proposed
[03:38] <superm1> ah i see
[03:39] <ScottK2> That and it's got a sufficiently tortured history that if I found problems, there's really no telling if it'd be a real bug or just a bogus config on the box left behind by Xandros.
[03:44] <ScottK2> So I discover that Xandros had force-overwrite and force-confold in their dpkg config.
[03:44] <ion_> Beautiful :-D
[03:57] <ScottK2> dpkg -P is my friend.
[03:58] <ScottK2> Of course it's a little scary when dpkg is one of the things that gets removed along the way...
[03:59] <LaserJock> hmm, I think reading the Distrowatch Weekly News comments is about as entertaining as the forums
[04:27] <StevenK> ScottK: Go right ahead
[04:39] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:46] <persia> Barry!
[04:49] <bddebian> Hi persia
[04:50] <bddebian> persia: Did you see Guillem's patch for survex?
[04:50] <persia> No.  I'll look now.
[04:50] <LaserJock> Mr. deFreese!
[04:51] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[04:53] <persia> bddebian: That looks like the right patch to me.
[04:53] <persia> bddebian: Anything left at this point, or was that the last?
[04:53] <bddebian> Still CTSim but supposedly the maintainer is working on it
[04:54] <persia> I thought upstream was opposed to the migration, and preferred a drop.  No complaints about keeping it.
[04:54] <bddebian> I think he's working with 2.8
[04:55] <persia> I didn't think the plan to add 2.8 had gotten anywhere.
[04:56] <bddebian> Yeah I was a little confused by that
[04:58] <persia> No traffic to Debian bug #403237 since November.  Is there somewhere else I should be following?
[04:58] <ubotu> Debian bug 403237 in wxwidgets2.6 "wxwidgets2.6: new stable upstream version 2.8.3" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/403237
[04:59] <persia> What do you think about dropping ctsim for hardy, and maybe picking it up later?
[05:03] <bddebian> Wouldn't break my heart but I'm a cold hearted bastard :-)
[05:05]  * LaserJock watches lang packs build
[05:06] <LaserJock> only 300+ left to go
[05:06] <ScottK2> Do we have an alternative package that does what ctsim does?
[05:11] <bddebian> Probably not, it's a pretty specialized app
[05:12] <LaserJock> bddebian: does debian-med look after it?
[05:12] <bddebian> No the maintainer is the upstream developer
[05:13] <bddebian> Unless maybe he's part of debian-med, I don't know
[05:13] <LaserJock> I see
[05:14] <jdong> ryanakca: I think on your basic256 package, you meant to say LP: #foo instead of Closes: #foo? ;-)
[05:15] <bddebian> Jesus, Standards Version 3.1.1
[05:15] <jdong> bddebian: whee :)
[05:15] <bddebian> I think that's the oldest I've seen yet
[05:18] <ScottK2> Has anyone contacted him?
[05:29] <bddebian> ScottK2: Who's him?
[05:29] <ScottK2> The upstream/maintainer of ctsim
[05:30] <bddebian> Yes, I've had some correspondence with him
[05:30] <ScottK2> What's his view?  WX2.4 forever?
[05:30] <bddebian> No, he has concerns about 2.6.  He would rather wait for 2.8 or 3.0
[05:30] <bddebian> But he understands he is the last hold-out at this point
[05:31] <ScottK2> So if he goes for 2.8, we can upload it here and we all win.  Debian will come around at some point.
[05:32] <bddebian> I think ron is waiting on 3.0 for Debian.  It was supposed to have been released already
[05:32] <ScottK2> I think his biggest thing is support no more than 2.
[05:33] <bddebian> He mentioned something yesterday or today about API instability
[06:10] <goobsoft> On the naming convention for packages on the PPA, the quickstart guide recommends appending ~ppaX to the version.  Is there any significance to the ~ or could a dash be used in it's place?
[06:10] <ScottK2> There is a significance
[06:10] <ScottK2> 1~ppa1 is lower than 1 in version ordering
[06:11] <ScottK2> 1-ppa1 is higher than 1 in version ordering.
[06:12] <goobsoft> That that a special case with the ~ symbol only?
[06:13] <goobsoft> Or is there a pattern that I'm not seeing that makes that obvious?
[06:14] <LaserJock> no it's ~
[06:14] <joejaxx> oohhhhh NICE :D PPA uploads come up on /~user/+packages :D
[06:14] <goobsoft> You mean that's the only symbol like that?
[06:16] <LaserJock> goobsoft: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
[06:17] <goobsoft> Thanks I've been looking for something like this.
[06:20] <joejaxx> anyone have an example of what a bzr branch url for launchpad looks like when it is not associated with a project?
[06:21] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:22] <goobsoft> Ok, I'm confused about the "Versioning" paragraph here https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart#head-eceb8e1fd9b5647b2f3127d112ce6ba7374a8f1b
[06:23] <goobsoft> If someone wanted to make the PPA package be used unless the main ubuntu packages included an updated release, wouldn't ~ppa1 be the wrong thing to append to the existing version?  It would be less than the current ubuntu package version and wouldn't get downloaded right?
[06:24] <joejaxx> i use .1~joejaxx1 appended to the version
[06:24] <goobsoft> Say this is in main 1-1ubuntu1
[06:24] <goobsoft> and I use 1-1ubuntu1~ppa1
[06:24] <goobsoft> Wouldn't it never be used?
[06:24] <joejaxx> i was just confused by this a couple of hours ago myself goobsoft :)
[06:24] <joejaxx> goobsoft: yeah it would not be used
[06:25] <goobsoft> I think it would make sense then to use - instead so that your version only is used when there is no newer version.
[06:25] <goobsoft> But it is used when there is NO newer version.
[06:25] <joejaxx> well the thing is
[06:25] <joejaxx> what happens when there is a mainline update?
[06:25] <goobsoft> what would the version be?
[06:26] <goobsoft> 2-1ubuntu1?
[06:26] <joejaxx> oh nevermind
[06:26] <joejaxx> 1-1ubuntu2
[06:27] <joejaxx> hmm
[06:27]  * joejaxx goes to see something
[06:27] <goobsoft> you're right.. that's a problem.
[06:27] <goobsoft> dpkg --compare-versions 1-1ubuntu2 gt 1-1ubuntu1-ppa1 && echo TRUE
[06:27] <goobsoft> that does not echo TRUE and I thought it would
[06:27] <joejaxx> ah
[06:27] <joejaxx> ok
[06:27]  * joejaxx must be confusing himself LOL
[06:28] <joejaxx> :
[06:28] <minghua> goobsoft: You probably need "|| echo TRUE" then.
[06:28] <joejaxx> :P  *
[06:29] <goobsoft> Doesn't && mean only execute the second statement if the first returns 0?
[06:29] <goobsoft> jojaxx: I still don't think using ~ as it is documented works the way people would expect.
[06:30] <joejaxx> yeah
[06:30] <joejaxx> not on that page anyway
[06:30] <joejaxx> they way i have been doing it is
[06:30] <joejaxx> if the version is : 1-1ubuntu1 i have been doing 1-1ubuntu1.1~joejaxx1
[06:30] <joejaxx> which works
[06:31] <goobsoft> When you update, do you updated the .1 or the x1?
[06:31] <joejaxx> the joejaxx1 to joejaxx2
[06:31] <goobsoft> ok
[06:32] <joejaxx> dpkg --compare-versions 1-1ubuntu1.1~joejaxx2 gt 1-1ubuntu1.1~joejaxx1 && echo true || echo false
[06:32] <joejaxx> true
[06:32] <minghua> goobsoft: Oh, I misread your question.
[06:32] <joejaxx> so they need to change that wiki page
[06:32] <minghua> goobsoft: You can't use "-" in Debian version number.
[06:33] <minghua> goobsoft: You need something like "1-1ubuntu1+ppa1", then things work as you expected.
[06:33] <goobsoft> ah ha!
[06:33] <goobsoft> :)
[06:33] <joejaxx> minghua: wait
[06:34] <joejaxx> what does the +ppa1 do?
[06:34] <goobsoft> That works
[06:34]  * minghua seems to still be confused by && and || in bash. :-(
[06:35] <minghua> joejaxx: Nothing special, just saying it's a version higher than 1-1ubuntu1, and is for PPA.
[06:35] <minghua> joejaxx: While 1-1ubuntu1~ppa1 is saying it's a version lower than 1-1ubuntu1.
[06:35] <joejaxx> is that better than .1~joejaxx1?
[06:36] <goobsoft> well it gets rid of the need for ".1"
[06:36] <joejaxx> true
[06:36] <goobsoft> You could use 1-1ubuntu1+joejaxx1
[06:36] <joejaxx> i wish i would have known about that before lmao
[06:36] <joejaxx> i just uploaded 8 source packages to a ppa
[06:37] <goobsoft> doh
[06:37] <joejaxx> with that versioning scheme
[06:37] <joejaxx> oh well
[06:37] <goobsoft> well, yours works too and as long as it's consistent in your ppa, it shouldn't matter.
[06:37] <goobsoft> I just want to update the documentation for others...
[06:38] <joejaxx> hurry before someone makes a mistake like me :P
[06:38] <joejaxx> make that 11 source packages
[06:40] <joejaxx> actually....
[06:40] <joejaxx> bah
[06:40] <joejaxx> i cannot even switch to the better versioning scheme now
[06:40] <goobsoft> Why not?
[06:41]  * joejaxx plots removing those packages and re-uploading them >:(
[06:41] <joejaxx> dpkg --compare-versions 1-1ubuntu1+joejaxx1 gt 1-1ubuntu1.1~joejaxx1 && echo true || echo false
[06:41] <joejaxx> false
[06:41] <joejaxx> and it is because of the .1
[06:41] <goobsoft> Yeah, you can change, but you have to change all of them... doh
[06:42] <joejaxx> i can switch when it becomes ubuntu2 though
[06:42] <joejaxx> goobsoft: luckily i did not upload my Xorg source
[06:42] <joejaxx> with that versioning scheme
[06:42] <joejaxx> lol
[06:42]  * joejaxx thinks this is one of the reasons he is not going for motu yet LOL
[06:43] <goobsoft> https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart?action=diff
[06:43] <joejaxx> nice
[06:43] <joejaxx> :D
[06:43] <goobsoft> I hope no one cares that I just update wikis.
[06:43] <joejaxx> you have prevents generations of developers from torture
[06:43] <joejaxx> lol
[06:43] <joejaxx> s/prevents/prevented/g
[06:43] <goobsoft> lol
[06:44] <goobsoft> if only irc accepted vi commands
[06:45] <minghua> Hmm, you can simply just edit LP wiki?
[06:45] <goobsoft> I just did :)
[06:45] <joejaxx> lol
[06:45] <joejaxx> ok
[06:45] <joejaxx> i am going
[06:45] <joejaxx> Goodnight All
[06:45] <goobsoft> Maybe I don't know any better, but there was nothing technically stopping me.
[06:46] <goobsoft> It's just a moin moin instance.
[06:46] <goobsoft> Good night joe, thanks for the help.
[06:46] <minghua> goobsoft: You edit is not good.
[06:46] <goobsoft> Why?
[06:46] <minghua> goobsoft: The -0ubuntu1 is kind of a special case.
[06:46] <joejaxx> wait
[06:46] <joejaxx> so that is not good for all versions?
[06:46] <joejaxx> :\
[06:47] <goobsoft> Can you provide a case in which it will fail?
[06:47] <minghua> goobsoft: I think the original text meant that there is no -0ubuntu1 version existing in official archive yet.
[06:47] <minghua> goobsoft: So you name it -0ubuntu1~ppa1, so that later the official -0ubuntu1 will have a higher version.
[06:48] <goobsoft> Well if there was no ubuntu case it would be 0ubuntu0 yes?
[06:48] <joejaxx> hmm so that means my original scheme fails as well
[06:48] <joejaxx> bah
[06:48] <goobsoft> 1-0ubuntu1 is higher than 1-0ubuntu0+ppa1
[06:48] <joejaxx> enough with this confusion lool Goodnight All
[06:49] <minghua> goobsoft: Case: There is 1.0-1 in archive, you are packaging 1.1, you can't use 1.1-0ubuntu1+ppa1 because the official version for first (Ubuntu-only) upload will be 1.1-0ubuntu1.
[06:49] <goobsoft> night
[06:49] <goobsoft> (I'm staying)
[06:49] <goobsoft> yes, I would use 1.1-0ubuntu0+ppa1
[06:50] <minghua> So you probably need to discuss two cases, same upstream version, or new upstream version.
[06:50] <minghua> I think -0ubuntu0+ppa1 is quite safe.
[06:51] <goobsoft> Ok, but I think the paragraph talking about versioning is only talking about the case where the package exists as a ubuntu package.
[06:51] <goobsoft> My point is that ~ does not yield correct results in that case but using + in it's place does.
[06:51] <goobsoft> Do you agree with that?
[06:52] <minghua> No, the paragraph is fine.
[06:53] <goobsoft> You believe that the original version with the ~ is fine?
[06:53] <minghua> To make a PPA on top of 1.0-1ubuntu1, you can use either 1.0-1ubuntu1+ppa1 or 1.0-1ubuntu2~ppa1.
[06:53] <minghua> I was talking about the former, the wiki page is talking about the latter.
[06:54] <minghua> Note the "increasing the package's version" part on the wiki page.
[06:55] <goobsoft> Ah, you are right
[06:55] <goobsoft> Hmm, do you like using ubuntu2~ over ubuntu1+ ?
[06:55] <goobsoft> It seems confusing to me.
[06:55] <LucidFox> minghua> use the latter if you want the "real" version to override the PPA version
[06:55] <LucidFox> for example, if it's a mere backport
[06:56] <minghua> LucidFox: Oh yes, for backport, I definitely prefer the ~ scheme.
[06:56] <LucidFox> apt will upgrade from 1.0-1ubuntu2~ppa1 to 1.0-1ubuntu2, but not from 1.0-1ubuntu1+ppa1
[06:56] <LucidFox> because ~ makes the version number lower
[06:57] <goobsoft> Ok, we need to vote on how the documentation should read.  Should I undo my change, or remove "increasing the package's version and"?
[06:57] <minghua> Why apt wouldn't upgrade from 1.0-1ubuntu1+ppa1 to 1.0-1ubuntu2?
[06:57] <goobsoft> I think it would
[06:58] <joejaxx> dpkg --compare-versions 1.0-1ubuntu2 gt 1.0-1ubuntu1+ppa1 && echo true || echo false
[06:58] <joejaxx> true
[06:58] <joejaxx> bbl
[06:59] <minghua> goobsoft: The previous version of wiki is confusing, but correct, your change made it plainly wrong.
[06:59] <goobsoft> yes, I agree.
[06:59] <minghua> goobsoft: I'm fine either way, but please don't leave it as it is now.
[06:59] <minghua> Good. :-)
[06:59] <goobsoft> ok, I vote for recommending the + usage
[06:59]  * minghua likes agreement as persia.
[06:59] <joejaxx> lol
[07:00] <joejaxx> i wish my brain could agree with my tiredness and shutdown -h now
[07:00] <minghua> LucidFox: Why apt wouldn't upgrade from 1.0-1ubuntu1+ppa1 to 1.0-1ubuntu2?
[07:01] <LucidFox> minghua> whoops
[07:01] <goobsoft> https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart?action=diff
[07:02] <LucidFox> I meant 1.0-1ubuntu2+ppa
[07:02] <LucidFox> but if the version in the archive is -XubuntuY, make the PPA version also -XubuntuY, not -Xubuntu(Y+1)
[07:04] <minghua> LucidFox: That would make it proper to use 1.0-1ubuntu1+ppa1 instead of 1.0-1ubuntu2~ppa1 if the current archive version is 1.0-1ubuntu1, wouldn't it?
[07:08] <LucidFox> minghua> If you want it to always replace the archive version, yes
[07:09] <LucidFox> if you want the archive version to replace the PPA version, use 1.0.1-1ubuntu1~ppa1
[07:09] <minghua> LucidFox: Okay, glad we agree, then.
[07:10] <goobsoft> LucidFox, apt will always select the version that is greatest as returned by dpkg --compare-versions right?
[07:10] <minghua> LucidFox: Oh you said 1.0.1-...?
[07:10] <goobsoft> Let's look at the case where the ubuntu package already exists as 1.0-1ubuntu1.  You need a version X that will be installed over 1.0-1ubuntu1 but not 1.0-1ubuntu2.
[07:12] <minghua> goobsoft: I think LucidFox is more talking about backporting case, like gutsy has 1.0-1ubuntu1, hardy has 1.0-1ubuntu2, and you want to make a PPA for gutsy.
[07:12] <minghua> goobsoft: In that case I agree 1.0-1ubuntu2~ppa1 is more proper (assuming your PPA package is based on the hardy version).
[07:12] <LucidFox> minghua> in this case, I'd use 1.0.1ubuntu2~ppa1
[07:12] <LucidFox> heh
[07:13] <minghua> LucidFox: I think changing upstream version is VERY bad.  And I don't agree at all.
[07:13] <LucidFox> minghua> s/1.0./1.0-/
[07:13] <LucidFox> typo
[07:14] <minghua> Well, you've made too many typos... and when talking about numbers, typos are quite crucial.
[07:15] <goobsoft> minghua: Does your discussion of backporting relate to how people should version the packages on their PPA (i.e. the documentation I just changed)?  I don't want to leave it if it would be better the other way.
[07:16] <minghua> goobsoft: Yes, it's related.  Like an unofficial, PPA-only backport.  Not the official ones like in gutsy-backports.
[07:17] <minghua> goobsoft: The official ones use versions like 1.0-1ubuntu1~gutsy1 anyway.
[07:18] <goobsoft> Is that so when the user upgrade their system to the next dist, they get the non-backported version in the next distribution?
[07:19] <minghua> Yes, exactly.
[07:23] <goobsoft> Ok, so that's a case where ~ is useful.  Do you agree that using + in the example in the documentation is a better recommendation?  I like it because from the ppa developer's perspective, it's better not to change the upstream package version which is "1.0-1ubuntu1".   It seems intuitive to me that your version of the package is 1.0-1ubuntu1 plus changes hence appending "+ppaN"
[07:25] <minghua> Well, depending on how you define "upstream package".
[07:26] <goobsoft> Exactly
[07:26] <minghua> I've said, I'm fine either way, the important thing is to understand what each part of the version number mean.
[07:27] <Packor> Hello, could someone help with a packaging question?
[07:27] <goobsoft> ok, thanks.  I'm like a kid seeking validation because I'm a newb. :p
[07:27] <minghua> goobsoft: If you really want to be perfect, I'd suggest discussing both cases.
[07:27] <ScottK2> goobsoft: It's generally the best thing to be using ~, I'd prefer that in the documentation.
[07:27] <ScottK2> Packor: Just ask.
[07:27] <minghua> But then you risk being too verbose.
[07:28] <ScottK2> StevenK: Perhaps you'd be willing to sponsor Bug #188266 so you'd no longer be TIL.
[07:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188266 in scribus "Please merge scribus 1.2.5.dfsg-5  (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188266
[07:28] <goobsoft> ScottK2, can you tell me why it's best to increment the ubuntu version and use ~ rather than just using +?
[07:29] <ScottK2> Generally when you package something for a PPA you are testing something you hope will be published in the archive later.
[07:29] <ScottK2> So if the archive has 1.0-1ubuntu1, the official version will likely be 1.0-1ubuntu2.
[07:30] <goobsoft> but that would still override 1.0-1ubuntu1+ppa1
[07:30] <ScottK2> If I make my test packages for ubuntu2, ubuntu2~ppaX then when the official package comes out, people will upgrade to it.
[07:30] <ScottK2> Right, but you're packaging ubuntu2.
[07:31] <goobsoft> Oh, so your saying in the case that my changes are in fact a test deployment of what will be ubuntu2
[07:32] <ScottK2> Yes, so 2~ppaX is logically better associated than 1+ppaX
[07:32] <ScottK2> Here's my clamav update PPA as an example: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clamav/+archive
[07:32] <goobsoft> That makes sense, I was thinking about it from the perspective of someone tweaking a package where the tweaks may never get integrated back into the official repositories.
[07:32] <ScottK2> All the packages listed for Dapper have recently been published in dapper-backports
[07:33] <ScottK2> goobsoft: Then you should be asking for help in #launchpad and not here would be my sense.
[07:33] <ScottK2> This channel is about packaging for the archives.
[07:34] <ScottK2> Packor: Did you have a question?
[07:34] <minghua> Hmm, I never thought about this problem from a IRC channel perspective. :-)
[07:34] <ScottK2> From my POV, PPA is a function provided by Launchpad.  Nothing to do with Ubuntu the distro except as it helps us with work on the distro.
[07:35] <goobsoft> true, this starting by my just asking question about versioning and move to the launchpad documentation from that.  I'm in launchpad if anyone wants to make any further comments.
[07:35] <Packor> I'm trying to create a package that has syslog-ng as a dependency.  When the apt-get attempts to install the package, it refuses to install syslog-ng.  I think it's because syslog-ng needs to remove the packages: ubuntu-minimal, klogd, sysklogd.  How do I work around this, so that may package automatically handles this?
[07:36] <ScottK2> Packor: Do you REALLY need syslong-ng?
[07:36] <Fujitsu> I suspect the best way to work around it is to realise you don't need it.
[07:36] <Packor> typo sorry. i mean syslog-ng
[07:37] <ScottK2> Right.
[07:38] <ScottK2> Packor: Take Fujitsu's advice.  Syslog-ng conflicts with sysklogd and so installing your package would change logging for the entire system.
[07:38] <warp10> Good morning
[07:40] <Fujitsu> Not one package in the archive requires syslog-ng.
[07:40] <ScottK2> With that, I think I'm going to bed.  Good night all.
[07:41] <Fujitsu> Night ScottK2.
[07:41] <goobsoft> Good night Scott, Thanks for the help.
[07:42] <TheMuso> Does anybody know how to prevent nautilus in hardy from bringin up new windows whenever somethig is mounted?
[07:42] <TheMuso> I'm finding that when I use sbuild, nautilus brings up windows for every new mount for the chroot.
[07:42] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: I noticed that too. It even does it for G(NOME-)VFS mounts, so I always get two windows open.
[07:42] <Fujitsu> Not sure if there's a solution.
[07:43] <ScottK2> TheMuso: I think \sh had that problem a few days ago and figured something out.
[07:43] <TheMuso> Right.
[07:43] <ScottK2> minghua: Thanks for you mail to the MC list.  I appreciated it.
[07:43] <TheMuso> Its also annoying when I run my script to update my chroots.
[07:43] <ScottK2> TheMuso: Switching to Kubuntu also works.
[07:44] <TheMuso> ScottK2: Yes, if I wish to have no accessibility, I might want to do that.
[07:44] <ScottK2> Ah, well more work to do there then.
[07:44] <ScottK2> Didn't know.
[07:44] <ScottK2> Good night for real this time.
[07:44] <TheMuso> Yeah I know, its coming along, thanks to some of the framework thats used for GNOME being ported to dbus.
[07:45] <minghua> ScottK2: Oh sure, I was very surprised to hear that many people asked Daniel to investigate the ban.
[07:45] <minghua> ScottK2: and good night.
[07:45]  * Fujitsu was too... it seems quite a reasonable thing to do.
[07:46]  * TheMuso doesn't remember seeing minghua's mail...
[07:47] <Fujitsu> I can't see it eithr.
[07:47] <Fujitsu> *either
[07:47] <minghua> It was about only an hour ago.
[07:48] <minghua> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-February/003194.html
[07:48] <Packor> Does anyone know how I can work around the problem of apt-get not installing a package, when its dependencies require that existing packages must be removed?
[07:48] <Fujitsu> Packor: You don't depend on things like syslog-ng, as that is a very very big change.
[07:49] <Packor> Fujitsu, this is an in-house developed package that requires syslog-ng, and we're OK with our servers having that change.
[07:49] <minghua> TheMuso, Fujitsu: I believe some gconf key under /desktop/gnome/volume_manager/ would help, autobrowse maybe?
[07:50] <minghua> TheMuso, Fujitsu: I'm currently under Debian and GNOME 2.20 though.
[07:50] <Fujitsu> Shouldn't it only display icons for removable media, and not every FS?
[07:50] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yes, thats correct.
[07:50] <TheMuso> minghua: GNOME 2.21 + hardy
[07:51] <TheMuso> minghua: Turning off browse removable media etc was the first thing I tried.
[07:52] <Fujitsu> I think somebody mentioned and filed a similar bug in #ubuntu-devel this morning (the unionfs or whatever appearing on the desktop of the desktop CD).
[07:52] <TheMuso> It doesn't help also if network mounts are being displayed with the wrong icon.
[07:52] <minghua> Yes, yes, just a disclaimer that your gconf key may be different.  I didn't try here.
[07:54] <TheMuso> minghua: Ah yes, just got your message. Thought it was on the MC list, but its not.
[07:57] <minghua> Got to go to bed, goodbye everyone.
[08:04] <goobsoft> What does it mean to ping someone on irc?
[08:04] <goobsoft> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-January/000762.html
[08:04] <goobsoft> "He pings people on IRC instead of waiting for his turn."
[08:04] <TheMuso> goobsoft: To ping someone, is to see if they are around, and get their attention.
[08:05] <TheMuso> goobsoft: Its better to simply ask the question and wait for their response.
[08:05] <goobsoft> is that a /command, or does that just mean:   "Hey TheMuso, I need to ask you a question"
[08:06] <TheMuso> goobsoft: Its basically this...
[08:06] <TheMuso> goobsoft: ping
[08:06] <TheMuso> goobsoft: Nothing more to it. No /command at all.
[08:06] <goobsoft> ok, thanks
[08:07] <goobsoft> Does that do something in some people's irc clients like play a sound?
[08:07] <TheMuso> goobsoft: Depending on how things are set up, yes.
[08:20] <nixternal_> TheMuso: ping
[08:20] <nixternal_> :p
[08:20]  * nixternal_ runs and hides in bed now
[08:21] <TheMuso> nixternal: hehe
[08:22] <nixternal> I had to do it
[08:22] <LucidFox> Now that serpentine is in universe, shouldn't bug #159712 have u-u-s subscribed instead of u-m-s?
[08:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159712 in serpentine "kde menu entry for 'Serpentine Audio CD Creator' has no icon" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159712
[08:41] <Aloha> how do i install custom made man pages? i'm going to do html2man but i don't know where i should store them in the package. anyone know?
[08:43] <Seveas> Aloha, dh_installman :)
[08:43] <Aloha> Seveas, yes. but do i put the man pages in the <packagename> directory? or <packagename>/debian?
[08:44] <Seveas> Aloha, if you created them and they're not part of upstream, then they're not in the orig.tar.gz so should be in debian/
[08:46] <Aloha> Seveas, ok gotcha. so im debian/manpages do i list the entries as "debian/<custom-manpage>" or "<custom-manpage>"?
[08:46] <Aloha> s/im/in/
[08:47] <slangasek> ScottK2: sorry, was out all evening and no time for sponsoring cyrus-sasl2 right now; if you can shoot me an email I can have a look tomorrow evening
[08:47] <slangasek> ScottK2: on libdb-ruby, do you have some sort of work-in-progress I might be able to take a look at?
[08:47] <Seveas> Aloha, debian/custom-manpage.x
[08:48] <Aloha> Seveas, thank you
[09:02] <lucas> ScottK2: the upstream maintainer told me that it was supported
[09:15] <LucidFox> If I'm modifying a dpatch for a new upstream version, should I strive for minimum changes (even if it means lots of "Hunk X succeeded with..." warnings) or regenerate it completely?
[09:28] <AnAnt> Hello, how much time does it take to get to get approval/denial for request of a new mailing list to be created ?
[09:37] <AnAnt> anyone here ?
[09:38] <LucidFox> AnAnt> I'm here
[09:38] <LucidFox> just can't answer your question :(
[09:38] <AnAnt> I made a couple of packages for Ubuntu, does that qualify me to get ubuntu membership ?
[09:39] <AnAnt> and few packages for Debian too
[09:39] <gnudles> you need to get approved...
[09:43] <AnAnt> ok
[09:49] <wattazoum> hello
[09:49] <wattazoum>  Could someone please review the  Bug #188288 ? A patch is associated and a debdiff is available .
[09:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188288 in nautilus "NautilusMenuItemDetails not defined in header file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188288
[10:18] <RainCT> hi
[10:19] <gnudles> hi
[10:21] <rulus> I need advocates for gtkvd! (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gtkvd) Can someone have a look please? :) Thanks!
[11:13] <sistpoty> morning everyone
[11:14] <geser> morning sistpoty
[11:14] <sistpoty> hi geser
[11:14] <Hobbsee> greetings!
[11:15] <sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
[11:15] <geser> Hi Hobbsee
[11:17] <Hobbsee> anything blown up today?
[11:18]  * Fujitsu spontaneously combusts.
[11:19]  * Hobbsee warms up, with the heat
[11:20]  * geser continues watching the snow outside
[11:20]  * sistpoty still tries to wake up and gets another coffee
[11:21]  * Hobbsee inserts the caffeine drip into sistpoty
[11:22]  * sistpoty starts to shiver due to high coffeine levels
[11:30] <zul> ive had 2 heartattacks from all of the snow im going to have shovel this morning
[11:30]  * Fujitsu notes that it's annoyingly hot and humid here.
[11:33] <zul> Fujitsu: switch?
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[11:45] <james_w> Fujitsu: hi. I'm trying to organise a couple of sessions for Developer week. DktrKranz has offered to do a session on SRU/Security updates, but he would like someone on the security side to help out to make sure he gets his information in that area correct. Would you be interested?
[11:46] <Fujitsu> james_w: I forget exactly when developer week is; I may be unavailable for most of it. Otherwise, sure.
[11:47] <james_w> Fujitsu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep 18th-22nd Feb, 1500-2000 UTC.
[11:47] <Fujitsu> Ah, so not the week I thought it was. Good.
[11:47] <james_w> Fujitsu: so you are available?
[11:47] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[11:48] <james_w> Fujitsu: \o/ great. Do you have any restrictions on the day/time?
[11:48] <proppy> oy
[11:49] <Fujitsu> Hm, damn, all of it's from my 2am-7am. I can probably do any if necessary, but a 7am would be best.
[11:50] <james_w> Fujitsu: of course. If you like I can suggest to Daniel that we run late one night to at least make it 8am for you.
[11:50] <Fujitsu> 7am is fine. I'm often up by them.
[11:51] <Fujitsu> .
[11:51] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[11:51] <james_w> Fujitsu: great, thanks. I'll suggest that to Luca.
[11:56] <sistpoty> hm... for a mere rebuild, I don't need to change the maintainer field, right (since it wouldn't have a -XubuntuY, but rather a -XbuildY version)?
[11:57] <Fujitsu> sistpoty: Don't change it, as there will be no changes bar the changelog.
[11:58] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: ah, k... seems like it won't get matched by dpkg-source then as well :)
[12:04] <sistpoty> geser: did you leave me any haskell packages? *g*
[12:04] <sistpoty> (/me just rebuilt a recent sync, due to mirror being one day behind *g*)
[12:05] <geser> sistpoty: there should still be some
[12:05]  * sistpoty looks if missingh can be synced
[12:05] <geser> sistpoty: but most of them are missing build-deps
[12:05] <geser> sistpoty: iirc is missingh waiting on haskell-regex-compat (in NEW)
[12:06] <sistpoty> geser: in debian/NEW? (there is a 1.0.0)
[12:06] <geser> sistpoty: no, Ubuntu NEW
[12:07] <sistpoty> hm... now I'm confused... on releases in LP it says 0.18.6, and I can't find any (sync) bugs
[12:08] <geser> for missingh? I didn't file one yet, as it currently can't be build in hardy (the last time I checked)
[12:08] <sistpoty> ah, k... now I get it, haskell-regex-compat is in new
[12:08] <sistpoty> thanks
[12:10] <geser> sistpoty: gtk2hs has once again build problems in Ubuntu
[12:10] <sistpoty> grml... didn't have the time to fix this for gutsy, I'll take a look
[12:16] <geser> sistpoty: can you reproduce the listlike FTBFS? it builds fine here on amd64
[12:16] <sistpoty> geser: I've just started building the new debian version... (but I'm on amd64 as well, so *g*)
[12:18] <geser> sistpoty: it failed on the amd64 buildd but succeeded on i386 buildd
[12:19] <sistpoty> geser: hm? am I looking at the wrong thing again? 0.9.12-1 shows a successful i386 and amd64 build in LP
[12:22] <sistpoty> geser: the 0.9.12.1-1 failed for me though
[12:22] <geser> sistpoty: gtk2hs 0.9.12 is for ghc6 6.6, I didn't requested a sync for 0.9.12.1 for ghc6 6.8 as I couldn't successfully build it
[12:22] <sistpoty> yes, saw that... I guess I should first get another coffee to get less confused *g*
[12:24] <geser> Hobbsee: please put an other caffeine drip into sistpoty :)
[12:24] <sistpoty> heh
[12:24] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:24] <sistpoty> hm... this looks suspicious: cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fno-toplevel-reorder"
[12:27] <sistpoty> I guess, I can fix it :)
[12:28] <geser> sistpoty: any idea how to proceeded with the ghc6 transition as FF is nearing? sync everything now and deal with build failures and the right build order later or request a FF exception for the packages?
[12:28] <sistpoty> geser: how many packages do you think are left?
[12:29] <sistpoty> geser: imo it makes sense to request FF exceptions (or rather to request a general FF exception for all unmet haskell libraries)
[12:29] <sistpoty> since these aren't working anyway
[12:30] <geser> sistpoty: I've still 15-20 mails from d-d-changes for ghc6 packages, perhaps some more
[12:32] <sistpoty> geser: OTOH filing sync requests now might also be ok.. (I still need to make ghc6 build on sparc again, and have bootstrapping plans for hppa and lpia32 as well)
[12:32] <sistpoty> so there might still be some fun ahead
[12:32] <geser> btw: I've looked what blocks the building of the haskell packages on the other archs: they are caught in a build-dependency loop
[12:33] <geser> sistpoty: good, does it involve some activity from a build admin?
[12:34] <sistpoty> geser: hppa/lpia definitely. sparc: not too sure. imho the build was prematurely killed by LP but would have succeeded, but I'll start a test build on sparky any minute
[12:41] <effie_jayx> can one still help out with merges?
[12:45] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: sure, but try to avoid big breakages (e.g. library transitions)
[12:46] <sistpoty> I guess I won't know before tomorrow, if ghc6 builds fine on sparky *g*
[12:47] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  thanks
[12:51] <RainCT> what would the German translation for "Emerald Theme Manager" and "Configure Emerald themes" be? (translations for other languages beside ca/es/fr are also welcome)
[12:53] <txwikinger> RainCT: Emerald Motiv Manager and Konfiguriere Emerald Motiv
[12:54] <txwikinger> or better Konfiguration Emerald Motiv for the second
[12:56] <geser> txwikinger: is "Motiv" a commonly used translation for "theme"? I'd probably translate it to "Aussehen"
[12:56] <txwikinger> geser: Aussehen is more individual
[12:56] <geser> I'm so used to the English names that I don't know how to translate it properly
[12:57] <txwikinger> Theme like a fashion theme, colour theme etc, is IMHO best translated as Motiv
[12:57] <txwikinger> Well... I always have to think to
[12:57] <RainCT> txwikinger: Motiv or Motive for the 2nd? (it's the comment for a menu entry)
[12:57] <txwikinger> RainCT: yes
[12:57] <txwikinger> Motive I mean
[12:57] <txwikinger> for more than one
[12:57] <geser> shouldn't comments start with a verb?
[12:58] <RainCT> right
[12:58] <txwikinger> verbs are problematic in German because of the Sie/Du issue
[12:59] <txwikinger> You maybe have to look how it is commonly done and stay in line with that
[12:59] <geser> txwikinger: my first connotation with "Motiv" would be when taking pictures or in art but not a theme
[13:00] <txwikinger> geser: Yes that is a meaning of motiv too
[13:00] <RainCT> txwikinger: "Konfiguriert Emerald Motive"? (Pidgin and OO.o have it like that)
[13:00] <txwikinger> RainCT: sounds good
[13:02] <sistpoty> geser: do you recall the haskell package, where you turned splitobj off?
[13:05] <sistpoty> geser: nevermind, found it
[13:06] <tuxmaniac> please can someone review/advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=alliance
[13:08] <RainCT> txwikinger: thanks
[13:08] <txwikinger> RainCT: np
[13:09] <RainCT> anyone up for checking a package upgrade?
[13:10] <LucidFox> RainCT> Which package?
[13:10] <RainCT> LucidFox: emerald
[13:11] <RainCT> I've a package for 0.5.2 ready
[13:17] <RainCT> anyone?
[13:17]  * RainCT is happy he doesn't need a sponsor :P
[13:17] <RainCT> s/he/that he
[13:18] <LucidFox> RainCT> well, I can only test it on Gutsy
[13:19] <RainCT> LucidFox: should work, no dependencies changes (I'm using it right now and my desktop didn't explode yet, but I'd like a second check :))
[13:19] <txwikinger> I think my test machine with hardy on it does not have a graphic card capable of compiz
[13:20] <LucidFox> RainCT> May I have a link to the package, then?
[13:21] <monstergod> Would this be the place to suggest a package for inclusion in universe, or should I quietly kick myself out again?
[13:22] <gnudles> free speech!
[13:22] <RainCT> LucidFox: http://rainct.homelinux.net/emerald_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.dsc :)
[13:23]  * LucidFox dgets
[13:23] <RainCT> monstergod: you're right here, but you'll probably have more luck filling a needs-packaging bug on Launchpad
[13:23] <LucidFox> indeed
[13:23] <monstergod> alright
[13:24] <LucidFox> monstergod> search here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging if such a request has already been filed
[13:24] <monstergod> Ta, willdo =)
[13:24] <LucidFox> if not, file a new bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?field.tag=needs-packaging
[13:25] <RainCT> btw, anyone familar with python-launchpadbugs here?
[13:25] <monstergod> I assume if it doesnt show up after searching for the app name, it wont be there
[13:26] <LucidFox> indeed
[13:26] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: ping
[13:28] <joejaxx> Good Morning All
[13:28] <monstergod> ah, I can see its already there. If I build a package, would the inclusion be speeded up? I assume you only take packages from trusted sources, though
[13:29] <RainCT> !revu
[13:29] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[13:29] <LucidFox> monstergod> If you want to package it yourself, you can upload the package to REVU
[13:29] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  pong?
[13:29] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: please fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/110268
[13:29] <monstergod> Thank you, very helpful =)
[13:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110268 in gweled "gweled does not record high scores" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[13:29] <LucidFox> monstergod> Also, you can search if it's in Debian, and if it is, file a sync request
[13:30] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: if you fix it, i'll sponsor it :)
[13:30] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee, which... the one with the manpage error in kdepim?
[13:30] <RainCT> monstergod: (http://packages.debian.org)
[13:31] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I still haven't gotten it to build, I did fix a smaller one... I am looking for a more interesting bug just now
[13:31] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: no, the gweled one
[13:31] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee, ok
[13:31] <Hobbsee> kdepim is always a pain
[13:32] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: thanks :)
[13:32] <monstergod> its not in the debian repo (tuxcap), but I can see its been filed on launchpad and is in progress
[13:33] <LucidFox> monstergod> Link, please
[13:33] <monstergod> application:  http://sourceforge.net/projects/tuxcap
[13:33] <LucidFox> no, not that
[13:33] <monstergod> launchpad:   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/187110
[13:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 187110 in ubuntu "tuxcap needs packaging" [Undecided,In progress]
[13:33] <monstergod> =D
[13:33] <LucidFox> ah
[13:33] <LucidFox> thanks
[13:33] <LucidFox> so, it's on REVU
[13:34] <monstergod> yes it looks that way
[13:34] <monstergod> thanks for pointing me where to look for all this, never thought about another package Id like before
[13:34] <monstergod> well, I have, just never bothered with trying to find out how to suggest it ;)
[13:35]  * sistpoty needs to buy food, cu later
[13:35]  * LucidFox looks
[13:40] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I checked the bug... but what persia suggests is there... as far as I can see
[13:40] <effie_jayx> chown root:games /var/games/$FILES
[13:40] <effie_jayx> chmod 664 /var/games/$FILES
[13:41] <effie_jayx> where $FILES is SCORE_FILES="
[13:41] <effie_jayx> gweled.easy.scores
[13:41] <effie_jayx> gweled.timed.scores"
[13:41] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: clearly it's not working
[13:42] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee, there must be some logical mistake there... let me check futher
[13:43]  * Hobbsee wonders if the whitespace makes a difference or something
[13:45] <RainCT> effie_jayx: wouldn't that end up as "/var/games/gweled.easy.scores gweled.timed.scores" ?
[13:45] <effie_jayx> RainCT,  mmm
[13:45] <RainCT> effie_jayx: instead of "/var/games/gweled.easy.scores /var/games/gweled.timed.scores" what it should be
[13:45] <Hobbsee> RainCT: erm, why would it be?
[13:46] <effie_jayx> shall I paste the .postinst file for us to beeter see?
[13:47]  * Hobbsee glares at command not found
[13:47] <Hobbsee> how do you set variables in bash now?
[13:47] <dcordero> hi
[13:48] <LucidFox> by the way, RainCT, what happened to  smplayer-themes? I saw that you assigned and then unassigned yourself...
[13:48] <RainCT> LucidFox: is it that one with the interdiff?
[13:49] <LucidFox> yes
[13:49] <RainCT> LucidFox: couldn't get the source :$
[13:50] <RainCT> (I mean, apply the interdiff to it)
[13:51] <effie_jayx> RainCT,  well there is a for that states that for each FILE in SCORE_FILES, create the file , chown root:games /var/games/$FILES and then chmod 664 the file created
[13:51] <LucidFox> Did you try the readable interdiff, or the full one?
[13:52] <RainCT> LucidFox: full
[13:52] <RainCT> effie_jayx: ahh ok
[13:53] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: thing="Boo" ?
[13:53] <RainCT> effie_jayx: then it should be ok
[13:53] <LucidFox> hmm, strange... then you should have had no problems following the instructions on the wiki...
[13:53] <LucidFox> never mind then :)
[13:53] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: ahhh. too much whitespace.
[13:54] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: I had the same problem before
[13:55] <RainCT> LucidFox: does emerald work?
[13:57] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I'm trying whitespaces and see
[13:57] <effie_jayx> the problem file is easy.scores and it has one space
[13:58] <LucidFox> whoops, I forgot
[13:58] <LucidFox> building now
[13:58] <laga> hello. i've just uploaded mythbuntu-diskless to REVU. it's a simple package which just creates three meta packages (one of them installing a config file, too). it'd be cool if someone could take a look :)
[13:59] <LucidFox> laga> I don't see the package on REVU, must still be processing
[13:59] <laga> LucidFox: i just uploaded it a minute ago
[14:01] <LucidFox> laga> looking
[14:02] <laga> LucidFox: thanks
[14:04] <LucidFox> laga> commented
[14:04]  * RainCT is checking too
[14:04] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I am building the package with a fix and see if it works
[14:04] <RainCT> laga: why is there an empty debian/docs file? :P
[14:05] <laga> LucidFox: i totally need to grep my stuff for FIXME:
[14:05] <LucidFox> RainCT> I mentioned that :)
[14:05] <LucidFox> We really should patch dh_make to be more Ubuntu-friendly.
[14:06] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: :)
[14:06] <RainCT> LucidFox: ah right, didn't see the comment :)
[14:06] <yamal> Any motu willing to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=sabnzbdplus please? Should be in pretty good shape.
[14:07] <LucidFox> Gah!
[14:07] <LucidFox> And mok0 left six minutes before I was going to inquire him on bug #119821
[14:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 119821 in dh-make "dh_make does not follow blueprint" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119821
[14:10] <laga> go easy on me, it's my first package ;)
[14:12] <laga> if i want to do a new upload to revu, do i have to bump the version number?
[14:12] <RainCT> laga: no, just remove the .upload file and dput again :)
[14:12] <RainCT> (or use dput --force)
[14:12] <laga> cool, thanks.
[14:13] <laga> RainCT: this basically is a ubuntu native package. i do have a get-orig-source rule however. am i suppose to do a native package or should i upload a orig.tar.gz as well?
[14:14] <LucidFox> laga> since this is a native package, there's only one tar.gz
[14:14] <LucidFox> no orig.tar.gz or diff.gz
[14:14] <joejaxx> if source packages are uploaded to a shared ppa do all members receive notification that a package was uploaded?
[14:14]  * joejaxx hopes not
[14:14] <laga> good
[14:15] <LucidFox> and per RainCT about consecutive uploads - I use dput -f instead of dput --force, as it's faster to type
[14:15] <laga> where can i get that "standard GPL header"? /usr/share/common-licences/ seems to have the full version only
[14:15] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: no, but any build failures will go to all members of the team
[14:15] <LucidFox> laga> it's _inside_ the text of the GPL
[14:15] <ryanakca> jdong: no
[14:15] <LucidFox> in the portion where it says how to apply the GPL to your software
[14:15] <ryanakca> jdong: I intended Closes: #foo, since it was originally intended for Debian
[14:16] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: yeap lol i noticed that
[14:16] <joejaxx> two of the packages i uploaded failed on amd64 and lpia and i received to two notices: one to my personal email and one from the mailing list
[14:16] <ryanakca> jdong: I'm just having a bit trouble getting it into Debian ATM because they're all going "AAAAAAH! BASIC! Why would we want BASIC?!?!? NOOOO!"
[14:16]  * ryanakca nods
[14:16] <laga> LucidFox: thanks, just found it. helps to have your eyes open
[14:17] <jpatrick> ryanakca: they have a point..
[14:17]  * jpatrick hides
[14:17] <RainCT> laga: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4099/plain/
[14:17]  * ryanakca growls at jpatrick 
[14:18] <ryanakca> jpatrick: cause we're all going to teach C++ or asm to our 8 year old kid
[14:18] <jpatrick> ryanakca: why, yes of course
[14:20] <ryanakca> lol
[14:20] <RainCT> yamal: the packages mentioned in TODO won't have the same source package, or?
[14:20] <RainCT> *debian/TODO
[14:21] <yamal> RainCT: some will, but not all, upstream includes 3 themes/templates in their standard release
[14:24] <laga> RainCT, LucidFox: ok, i've just uploaded a version which is hopefully better
[14:28] <frafu> Could anybody please help me with dh_gconf in a package debianized with debhelpers (not cdbs). What else do I have to do, apart adding dh_gconf in the binary-arch target?
[14:28] <dcordero> i dont know what means a bug status "Triaged" :/
[14:28] <ploum> Hello
[14:28] <LucidFox> dcorcero> It's basically a flashier version of Confirmed :)
[14:28] <ploum> I want to open my own ppa archive
[14:29] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: have you won yet?
[14:29] <ploum> Can someone point me to a documentation
[14:29] <Hobbsee> !ppa
[14:29] <RainCT> yamal: commented
[14:29] <Hobbsee> ubotu: ping
[14:29] <ubotu> With Launchpad's Personal Package Archives (PPA), you can build and publish binary Ubuntu packages for multiple architectures simply by uploading an Ubuntu source package to Launchpad. See https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart.
[14:29] <ubotu> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
[14:29] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: :P
[14:30] <Hobbsee> ROFL!
[14:30]  * Hobbsee renames ubotu "Marvin the paranoid android"
[14:30] <yamal> RainCT: tx
[14:30] <LucidFox> heh
[14:30] <jpatrick> with his job, I wouldn't be surprised if he already was..
[14:31] <RainCT> yamal: looks good otherwise :)
[14:32] <laga> wow. lintian was yelling at me because my standards version is too old. now linda is complaining because it's too new. :)
[14:32] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  lol... nah ... had som problems with mu pbuilder... almost done
[14:32] <LucidFox> laga> that's normal
[14:32] <LucidFox> linda is outdated
[14:33] <laga> LucidFox: thought as much
[14:33] <yamal> RainCT: by 'indenting' you just mean like a tab at the beginning of a line?
[14:33] <laga> (unless i'm supposed to use fractions)
[14:33] <jpatrick> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54472/ - ideas anyone?
[14:33] <LucidFox> RainCT> emerald has built successfully and works on my Gutsy machine
[14:34] <RainCT> yamal: yes. (usually for spaces are used in debian/control, but tabs are also ok)
[14:34] <RainCT> LucidFox: thanks for checking :)
[14:34] <LucidFox> jpatrick> You have an install rule in debian/rules that tries to install to /usr/share
[14:35] <RainCT> jpatrick: install -p -m664 debian/dragon.xpm $(CURDIR)/debian/dragonplayer/usr/share/pixmaps/     or use dh_install
[14:35] <jpatrick> ah, yes
[14:35] <jpatrick> :)
[14:35] <LucidFox> jpatrick> RainCT beat me to it :)
[14:35] <LucidFox> just replacing "install" with "dh_install" should be enough
[14:36] <LucidFox> jpatrick> By the way, why don't you just try building the Ubuntu dragonplayer package on your machine, or installing from PPA?
[14:36] <LucidFox> (assuming you use Gutsy)
[14:37] <jpatrick> LucidFox: I'm putting it into Debian
[14:37] <LucidFox> ah
[14:49] <jpatrick> hmm, where should .menu files go?
[14:50] <LucidFox> jpatrick> in debian/
[14:50] <LucidFox> where else? :)
[14:50] <pochu> jpatrick: /usr/share/menu/
[14:50] <jpatrick> LucidFox: and installed?
[14:50] <jpatrick> aha, there
[14:50] <jpatrick> so: /usr/share/menu/app
[14:50] <LucidFox> dh_installmenu will automatically take care of installing them there
[14:51] <LucidFox> you don't need to manually work with this directory
[14:51] <pochu> jpatrick: dh_installmenu will automatically install them I think.
[14:51] <jpatrick> didn't here
[14:51] <jpatrick> dh_installmenu debian/dragon.menu
[14:51] <LucidFox> maybe you have it named wrong?
[14:51] <LucidFox> no
[14:51] <ion_> Look at dh_installmenu’s man page.
[14:51] <LucidFox> just dh_installmenu
[14:51] <LucidFox> no arguments
[14:51] <LucidFox> and it should be (packagename).menu
[14:51] <LucidFox> so, in this case, dragonplayer.menu
[14:52] <jpatrick> LucidFox: dh_installmenu -pdragonplayer - package runs that and does not put the file into the right place (or anywhere)
[14:52] <LucidFox> jpatrick> it should be named dragonplayer.menu and not dragon.menu
[14:52] <LucidFox> or just "menu"
[14:53] <jpatrick> LucidFox: here's to the 8th pbuild of the day of the same package!
[14:54] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:54] <pochu> bddebian!
[14:55] <bddebian> Hello pochu
[14:55] <pochu> bddebian: how is it going?
[14:55] <bddebian> Fair to midland, thanks.  You?
[14:55]  * laga going out for a while. if someone could take a look at the new version of mythbuntu-diskless in revu it'd be much appreciated :)
[14:55] <ion_> jpatrick: Also, cdbs automatically calls dh_installmenu, so if you’re using it, all you need to do is to put the file to debian/
[14:55] <pochu> Pretty well, thank you :)
[14:56] <jpatrick> ion_: that's what I was wondering about
[14:57] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I have an issue
[14:57] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: oh?
[14:57] <geser> Hi bddebian
[14:58] <effie_jayx> the package builds fine but I can't test it... I seem to have lost my virtual machine with hardy :S. I may have to reinstall it to test
[14:58] <bddebian> Heya geser
[14:59] <effie_jayx> though I could just check if once isntalled the two files get the permision settings right...
[14:59] <effie_jayx> :P
[14:59] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: that's what i'd do
[14:59] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I am going for that then
[14:59] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: install it in a pbuilder, then check the file permissions
[14:59] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  great
[14:59]  * tuxmaniac wonders when he will be kicked for spamming this channel. But still.. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=alliance is up for review/advocation again!! 
[14:59]  * Hobbsee will have to make the supreme sacrifice and test it herself
[15:00] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  let me
[15:00] <Hobbsee> i meant the playing of it :)
[15:01] <emgent> heya people
[15:02] <Hobbsee> hi emgent
[15:02] <frafu> Could anybody help me with how to use dh_gconf in order to install schemas?
[15:02] <emgent> Hobbsee, :)
[15:05] <RainCT> laga: commented
[15:05] <RainCT> laga: ping me once it's fixed and I'll advocate
[15:10] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee, it doesn't do it
[15:10] <effie_jayx> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 Feb  2 14:36 gweled.easy.scores
[15:10] <effie_jayx> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root games 0 Feb  2 15:11 gweled.timed.scores
[15:10] <Hobbsee> ugh :(
[15:12] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  I'm on to it... I have all day
[15:12] <Hobbsee> :)
[15:12] <effie_jayx> :D
[15:12] <ScottK2> frafu: Did you read man dh_gconf?
[15:13] <frafu> ScottK2: yes
[15:14] <frafu> ScottK2: but it is not very helpful about how to use it
[15:16] <frafu> ScottK2: apart adding dh_gconf to the binary target in the rules file, what else do I have to do?
[15:16] <ScottK2> frafu: From reading the man page, I think nothing, but I'm not at all familiar with gconf (I use KDE).
[15:18] <protonchris> effie_jayx: I just wanted to say thanks for your MOTU journey wiki page.  I'm finding it very useful and it inspired me to start my own :)
[15:19] <effie_jayx> protonchris,  get started... If I can ... anyone can
[15:19] <effie_jayx> :D
[15:19] <frafu> ScottK2: maybe you know some simple packages that uses dh_gconf that I could use as reference; unfortunately, all the packages i downloaded with apt-get source use cdbs :(
[15:24] <protonchris> effie_jayx: My MOTU wiki page is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/protonchris/MOTU
[15:24] <protonchris> effie_jayx: Any suggestions are appreciated.
[15:25] <effie_jayx> protonchris, great.. I'll give it a kick look :D
[15:26] <pochu> protonchris: from a quick grep in debian pkg-gnome: ekiga, epiphany-browser, totem, gnome-screensaver, gnome-utils
[15:26] <ScottK2> frafu: No I don't, but that's a good idea for how to figure it out.
[15:26] <pochu> and that's only in desktop, haven't grep'ed the rest of the packages...
[15:27] <protonchris> pochu: ?
[15:27] <ScottK2> protonchris: I think that was meant for frafu
[15:27] <pochu> Right. frafu ^
[15:27] <pochu> protonchris: sorry
[15:28] <pochu> frafu: and software-properties, gnome-app-install, update-manager, libgnomedb{,3} from the rest of the packages
[15:28] <pochu> frafu: I hope that's enough ;-)
[15:28] <frafu> pochu: thanks; how did you get the list?
[15:29] <pochu> frafu: emilio@pochu:~/dev/deb/pkg-gnome/desktop/unstable$ grep -R dh_gconf */*/rules
[15:29] <protonchris> pochu: no problem.  I thought I must of missed something :)
[15:30] <pochu> frafu: and same on packages/unstable/
[15:31] <joejaxx> the meta field for the Debian Maintainer field is XSBC-Original-Maintainer right?
[15:31] <frafu> pochu: thanks again :)
[15:31] <ScottK2> joejaxx: Yes
[15:31] <joejaxx> ScottK2: ok great thanks :D
[16:12] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  it seems like the .postinst is fine
[16:14]  * effie_jayx checks debian/rules for any other clues on what may happen
[16:20] <laga> RainCT: thanks, will do
[16:23] <laga> RainCT: silly mistake, i'd already fixed that before i accidentally blew away my working copy
[16:32] <effie_jayx> anyone sharp in debhelper around?
[16:32] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: what's your problem?
[16:32] <effie_jayx> I want to know exacly what this line is doing
[16:33] <effie_jayx> chmod u+w $(CURDIR)/debian/gweled/usr/games/*
[16:33] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: but that's not debhelper specific ;)
[16:33] <effie_jayx> not that one sorry
[16:33] <effie_jayx> DEB_DH_FIXPERMS_ARGS := -X/var/games/.*scores -X/usr/games
[16:33] <pochu> That's CDBS :)
[16:34] <effie_jayx> ohhhh noooooo
[16:34] <sistpoty> hm... that's cdbs again...
[16:34] <effie_jayx> here we go again :D
[16:34] <effie_jayx> it cdbs calling debhelper
[16:34] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: I'd look at the debhelper.mk rule, where the variable DEB_DH_FIXPERM_ARGS is used (most probably to a debhelper command)
[16:35] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: but my guess (w.o. looking) is that it's dh_fixperms -X/var/games/.*scores -X/usr/games
[16:35] <Lutin> it prevents dh_fixperms from acting on the specified files
[16:35] <sistpoty> (or dirs=
[16:35] <sistpoty> s/=/)
[16:36] <effie_jayx> ok
[16:37] <effie_jayx> I am looking for some section that may alter permisions to a file in /var/games/
[16:39] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: you could try to set DH_VERBOSE=1 in debian/rules... this will give you lots of output from the debhelper commands (even if called through cdbs)
[16:39] <sistpoty> including what the system commands executed by these are
[16:40] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  I'll try that
[16:42] <Lutin> geser: is it you who added the DaD comment on flowscan ?
[17:04] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock,
[17:04] <LaserJock> hi
[17:05] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock, any possibility of alliance package review? have closed some of bddebian 's review comments.
[17:05] <tuxmaniac> oh bddebian is also here!
[17:10] <LaserJock> tuxmaniac: k, I'll have a look
[17:17] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  I installed and it doesn't show anything related to asigning permissions
[17:17] <sistpoty> hm.
[17:18] <effie_jayx> and the bug remains
[17:18] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: what's the problem/what gets changed?
[17:18] <effie_jayx> ok
[17:18] <effie_jayx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gweled/+bug/110268
[17:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110268 in gweled "gweled does not record high scores" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[17:18] <effie_jayx> it's a permissions issue
[17:19] <effie_jayx> the file for highscores is set to root
[17:20] <effie_jayx> the file is created in debian/gweled.postinst
[17:20] <effie_jayx> both score files should get the same permisions
[17:20] <effie_jayx> but somehow it does not happen
[17:21] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: ah, then it won't have to do anything with debian/rules (which only affect *build* behaviour)
[17:21] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  I have tried the logics of the bash script in postinst and it is fine
[17:21]  * sistpoty takes a look
[17:21] <effie_jayx> let me show you
[17:21] <effie_jayx> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/4101/
[17:21] <effie_jayx> I did it manually
[17:22] <effie_jayx> and it works
[17:23] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: have you tried a fresh install? (without having any highscore file there)?
[17:23] <effie_jayx> yes
[17:23]  * effie_jayx tries pbuilder
[17:23] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: what are the permissions then?
[17:23] <geser> Lutin: no
[17:24] <effie_jayx> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 Feb  2 17:04 gweled.easy.scores
[17:24] <effie_jayx> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root games 0 Feb  2 17:16 gweled.timed.scores
[17:25] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: hm... strange, it *should* work on a fresh install (i.e. no file there), but not, if a file is already there
[17:25]  * sistpoty tests
[17:25] <sistpoty> I guess I'll better test the functionality of gweled as well *g*
[17:27] <albert23> effie_jayx: the problem is probably that gweled.easy.scores is included in the package, and therefore is skipped in postinst
[17:28] <effie_jayx> albert23,  what do you suggest I do...
[17:28] <albert23> effie_jayx: In my opinion both files should be created in postinst.
[17:29] <effie_jayx> albert23,  ok I'm going to see if the file is indeed included.
[17:29] <albert23> effie_jayx: I think if a highscore file is in the package, it will be replaced when you upgrade the package, so you would loose yyour highscores
[17:30] <effie_jayx> albert23,  I see your point
[17:34] <effie_jayx> albert23,  I am looking for the place where the file might be created prior to postinst
[17:35] <albert23> effie_jayx: I have touch /tmp/buildd/gweled-0.7/debian/gweled//var/games/gweled.easy.scores in my buildlog
[17:36] <albert23> effie_jayx: and that is done in the Makefile
[17:48] <effie_jayx> albert23,  thanks for the heads up
[17:49] <albert23> effie_jayx: no problem
[17:49] <vemon> which state should a [needs-packaging] bug move to when a package is uploaded to REVU?
[17:49] <vemon> if it was previously in "In Progress"
[17:51] <sistpoty> vemon: yes, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/ReviewProcessConvergence
[17:54] <LaserJock> vemon: In Progress is good
[17:57] <effie_jayx> albert23,  I just saw MakeFile.am and the file is created and chown'ed 644
[17:58] <albert23> effie_jayx: That's right.
[17:58] <effie_jayx> albert23,  should I remove that then?
[17:59] <albert23> effie_jayx: That would be one solution
[17:59] <albert23> effie_jayx: Alternatively you could remove the file in debian/rules
[17:59] <albert23> effie_jayx: I don't know what is best practice though
[18:04] <sistpoty> both are equally good imo ;)
[18:08] <laga> RainCT: i've uploaded a new version of mythbuntu-diskless to REVU. it should show up in a few moments.
[18:08] <vemon> is there any other ways to get the attention of MOTUS's for REVU-packages than asking here? :) compared to actual bugs which can be subscribed to "ubuntu-universe-sponsors"
[18:08] <sistpoty> vemon: nope, there isn't
[18:08] <laga> vemon: send them flowers or cookies. </silly advice>
[18:09]  * sistpoty also accepts beer *g*
[18:09] <StevenK> No, beer and chocolate
[18:09] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  If I erase would that cause trouble?
[18:09] <vemon> :D
[18:09]  * effie_jayx tries
[18:09] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: what do you mean with erase?
[18:09] <vemon> so this actually involves being social. damn :)
[18:10] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  modify makefile to change the creation of the file and leave it all to postinst ...
[18:10] <tuxmaniac> if there is a bug needs to be reported upstream, what changes do I have to make to LP after reporting the bug upstream?
[18:10] <albert23> effie_jayx: gweled uses simple-patchsys.mk, so you need to make a patch to keep the sponsors happy
[18:11] <effie_jayx> oooohhhh lord
[18:11] <effie_jayx> :D
[18:11] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: this is autotools, right? (with configure), if you just change it in the makefile, configure will screw that. if the autotools boogie is done (aclocal, autoconf, automake etc) during build, Makefile.in's will also get recreated
[18:11] <laga> RainCT: oops. i uploaded it to main accidentally :)
[18:11] <wolfger> Hey all. Is there any way to get Kopete to use Firefox instead of Konqueror to open URLs?
[18:11] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: others then knowing which makefile's are getting recreated, it won't cause problems I guess.
[18:12] <LucidFox> wolfger> Is Firefox registered in KDE as the default web browser?
[18:12] <wolfger> LucidFox: probably not...
[18:14] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  sorry ... I have not the knowledge to fully understand. but Modifying the makefile won't do is what I understood
[18:15] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: let me try to explain
[18:15] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: gweled uses autotools
[18:15] <wolfger> lol... I just realised I joined #kopete but then asked my question here. Sorry about that
[18:15] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: in an upstream project that uses autotools, you've just got a number of Makefile.am's lying around
[18:16] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: if you run aclocal, autoconf, automake, for each Makefile.am a Makefile.in gets created
[18:16] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: that's usually what you are distributing as upstream (sources together with Makefile.in's)
[18:17] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: if you then run ./configure, Makefiles get created from Makefile.in's
[18:17] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: and that's what's usually gets done in debian/rules, to run configure first
[18:17] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: so if you modify a Makefile, it will get overwritten during build because configure is executed
[18:18] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: so you'd want to fix the Makefile.in here
[18:18] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: and another side note: this package uses a patch system, so it would be nice to have it around as a patch ;)
[18:19]  * effie_jayx knows nothing of patches :S
[18:20] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  "have it around as a patch :)" have what as a  patch?
[18:20] <paas> LucidFox:  Thanks for reviewing my package. I've just uploaded an updated version which fixes for all your comments.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libtuxcap cheers
[18:20] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: if you directly modify any source file and then build the source package, the difference will land in .diff.gz
[18:21] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: some maintainers prefer to seperate different changes they do to upstream sources though
[18:21] <effie_jayx> yep, that I know
[18:21] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: hence they use a patch system (there are quite some out there)
[18:21] <LucidFox> paas> Excellent. It's better to seek different reviewers each time, though, as they rend to catch different things.
[18:21] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: most ship with a command to create a patch which will then land in debian/patches
[18:21] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: gweled uses cdbs' simple-patchsys, so the command is cdbs-editpatch
[18:22] <LucidFox> so it's better to direct your REVU-pimpings to the entire channel rather than a specific person
[18:22] <effie_jayx> sistpoty, I see.
[18:22] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: so if you type cdbs-edit-patch nameofthepatch, you'll get a copy of the sources, where you can modify to your liking
[18:23] <sistpoty> if you exit that shell, cdbs-edit-patch will take care to put the difference into debian/patches/nameofthepatch
[18:23] <sistpoty> that way you can separate individual changes...
[18:23] <sistpoty> which of course will also be in the .diff.gz (because it's in the debian dir)
[18:23] <effie_jayx> ok... so first make a patch, edit what I need to edit
[18:24] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: first cdbs-edit-patch agoodnameofwhatyoulldo
[18:24] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: then edit files to your liking
[18:24] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: then exit this shell and you'll have your patch ;)
[18:24] <paas> LucidFox, ok thanks for the tip. I was under the impression that you seek another reviewer once the current one has advocated the package.
[18:24] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  then I generate a debdiff to post with the bug in LP?
[18:25] <LucidFox> paas> Well, I'm not a MOTU, so I can't advocate it anyway
[18:25] <LucidFox> and no, this is not how REVU works
[18:25] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: first you shoul test-build and test your changes, then attach the debdiff ;)
[18:25] <LucidFox> paas> commented, by the way
[18:26] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  I am still a bit unsure of the steps I need to take. 1) generate patch. modify what I want... at this stage when I build a source package, where do I do it... in the patch I made?
[18:27] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: no, you'll exit the cdbs-edit-patch shell, so that you have your patch in debian/patches
[18:27] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: then you build the package as usual
[18:27] <sistpoty> during building, cdbs (or rather the simple-patchsys rule) will take care to apply every patch lying in debian/patches to the sources
[18:27] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  about the change in the MakeFile.in you suggested that I didn't modify it
[18:28] <effie_jayx> it gets regenerated
[18:28] <effie_jayx> then how should I tackle it?
[18:28] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: no, not during package build
[18:28] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: during package build Makefile's (*not* Makefile.in's) will get generated
[18:29] <sistpoty> upstream would (usually) recreate the Makefile.in's from Makefile.am's (though there are some packages which in fact do this during building as well)
[18:30] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  how then?
[18:30] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: for gweled, you can modify the Makefile.in's
[18:33] <RainCT> laga: :)
[18:34] <TuxCrafter> hello guys how can I see which ubuntu packages depend on libgnomevfs2-0 ?
[18:35] <effie_jayx> thanks sistpoty for the very detailed explanation
[18:35] <sistpoty> np
[18:35] <paas> LucidFox: thanks, will fix it right away
[18:35] <sistpoty> TuxCrafter: apt-cache rdepends is your friend
[18:35] <TuxCrafter> thanks looking into it
[18:36] <sistpoty> TuxCrafter: just add the packagename (apt-cache rdepends libgnomevfs2-0)
[18:36] <TuxCrafter> sistpoty: thanks indeed i just looked it up in the man page
[18:38] <laga> RainCT: great. thanks
[18:39] <TuxCrafter> apt-cache rdepends libgnomevfs2-0 | grep gtk
[18:39] <TuxCrafter> why is libgtkhtml depending on gnome libs?
[18:48] <sistpoty> TuxCrafter: maybe it uses symbols from it? objdump -p /usr/lib/libgtkhtml-2.so | grep NEEDED will show you dependencies based on symbol usage
[18:49] <sistpoty> TuxCrafter: mine doesn't show any needed thing from libgnomevfs2-0 though... strange
[18:51] <sistpoty> TuxCrafter: and it doesn't have a dependency (though I'm not sure, if I'm up to date)
[18:51] <TuxCrafter> wierd
[18:52] <sistpoty> oh, I was looking at libgtkhtml2-0
[18:56] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  I changed MakeFile.in how do I get out ot th shell for cdbs
[18:56] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: either type exit or use ctrl-d
[18:57] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  Should I have done the edit of the changelog there as well :S?
[18:58] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: heh, no... you don't want a patch for anything under debian/ ;)
[18:58] <effie_jayx> :D
[18:58] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: you could ask pitti about that though :P
[18:59] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  I'm buidling source and test building to see
[19:00] <paas> I've removed DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR = debian/tmp from the rules file but now it fails during pbuilder. Should it be in the rules file and should it look like this DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR = $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
[19:01] <superm1> hey folks, looking for another MOTU to take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gmyth
[19:01] <sistpoty> superm1: just read a revu comment from you... the Xs-Vcs-* fields are nowadays accepted AFAIK, so these don't need the Xs- prefix any longer
[19:01] <superm1> sistpoty, ah was not aware of that.
[19:02] <sistpoty> heh, I wasn't aware of 3.7.3 before a few days *g*
[19:02] <paas> by the way I'm using cdbs
[19:02] <ion_> An alternative to a patch system is making the changes as commits to the packaging branch, which has been forked from the upstream branch.
[19:02] <superm1> sistpoty, surprised that linda/lintian isn't telling about that then.  that's how I learned of 3.7.3 in the first place, but didn't explore its details yet :)
[19:02] <sistpoty> heh
[19:05] <Laney> Hey guys, I'm trying to work on my first bitesize bug and coming across a problem. Can someone take a look? Output here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/4105/
[19:06] <Laney> I guess it can't show the image in the diff file, but what can I do about that?
[19:06] <ScottK2> Laney: Did you modify debian/alsa-tools.png
[19:06] <Laney> ScottK2: That's one of the files that I added, yes.
[19:06] <ScottK2> Laney: Did you make a debian/changelog entry and increment the revision number?
[19:06] <StevenK> .png files are binary, and diff doesn't like binary files
[19:07] <Laney> ScottK2: No, not yet. I'm just trying to test-compile it. Could that cause the problem?
[19:07] <ScottK2> Laney: You need to convert it into another format.
[19:07]  * ScottK2 is blanking on what.
[19:07] <LaserJock> xpm?
[19:08] <LaserJock> or is that xbm
[19:08] <Laney> I have the xpm, but I saw on the wiki that I can optionally provide a png icon too.
[19:08] <LaserJock> Laney: on what wiki?
[19:08] <Laney> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles
[19:08] <Laney> (it doesn't actually say what to do with the png :()
[19:09] <LaserJock> hmm, that is a little unfortunate
[19:09] <LaserJock> you can use a .png if it's already in the upstream source
[19:09] <superm1> either that or depend on sharutils
[19:09] <superm1> and uuencode/uudecode it
[19:09] <LaserJock> but you can't diff a binary file in the .diff.gz
[19:10] <Laney> Hmm, would it be best to just leave the png out then?
[19:10] <LaserJock> superm1: but that's a little silly if you already have an .xpm
[19:10] <superm1> well in some cases you can't do that though.
[19:10] <LaserJock> Laney: you only need one
[19:10] <superm1> say if the app can't read the xpm
[19:10] <superm1> depends what the purpose of the png is
[19:10] <Laney> LaserJock: Right then
[19:10] <Laney> I was just following the docs ;)
[19:10] <LaserJock> superm1: we're talking about .desktp files
[19:10] <LaserJock> Laney: I know
[19:11] <superm1> i should read comments 8 comments before me.  carry on then :)
[19:11] <sistpoty> you can also convert it to a sng and convert it back during build from that one
[19:11]  * Laney removes
[19:12] <effie_jayx> sistpoty,  fixed
[19:12] <effie_jayx> :D
[19:13] <Laney> Well that seems to work fine :)
[19:14] <effie_jayx> sistpoty, now I just generate a debdiff and the rest is just like normal... ?
[19:15] <sistpoty> effie_jayx: yep
[19:15] <effie_jayx> the only difference was using cdbs-edit-patch to make the changes...
[19:15] <effie_jayx> great learning today :D
[19:25] <luisbg> libvte-doc package description seams to be wrong... it says development where it should say docs
[19:25] <luisbg> I'm looking at gutsy's version
[19:25] <luisbg> going to check hardy's
[19:26] <luisbg> same... who should I poke to get this changed?
[19:27] <luisbg> it's so small it doesn't even need a bug report :P
[19:33] <LaserJock> luisbg: poke Debian?
[19:34] <luisbg> LaserJock, I'm going to call him on the phone :P
[19:34] <pochu> luisbg: I'll fix it, thanks
[19:34] <luisbg> pochu, no problem
[19:35] <LaserJock> pochu: fix it where?
[19:36] <pochu> LaserJock: Debian pkg-gnome, where it's packaged
[19:37] <LaserJock> k
[19:38] <Laney> Can someone check out my patch on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-tools/+bug/159727 ?
[19:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159727 in alsa-tools "all desktop files in alsa-tool-gui package do not specify icons" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[19:39] <Laney> I used the icon that someone posted on that bug, hope that's ok...
[19:39]  * RainCT wonders why 3/4 of all the packages I reviewed so far had all "priority: extra" :P
[19:40] <laga> RainCT: dh_make :)
[19:40] <pochu> luisbg: done
[19:41] <luisbg> pochu, that was quick!
[19:41] <crimsun> Laney: a lot of cruft in that debdiff
[19:42] <Laney> Yeah, I wondered where that came from and if it would be a problem.
[19:42] <crimsun> it's created when you autotoolised again.
[19:42] <crimsun> you can use filterdiff to remove it from the debdiff
[19:42] <luisbg> hey crimsun
[19:43] <crimsun> hi luisbg
[19:43] <luisbg> does somebody know in which package glib/gchecksum.h is?
[19:43] <crimsun> libglib2.0-dev
[19:43] <luisbg> libglib2.0-dev is already the newest version.
[19:43] <luisbg> md5.c:20:28: error: glib/gchecksum.h: No such file or directory
[19:44] <crimsun> luisbg: for which glib version is it looking?  Check config.log.
[19:45] <luisbg> glib-2.0
[19:45] <Laney> crimsun: So would it be fine if I just got rid of the Makefile stuff in the debdiff?
[19:45] <crimsun> luisbg: how is configure checking it?  Is it generated correctly from configure.{ac,in}?
[19:46] <crimsun> Laney: ld10k1/*, according to diffstat.
[19:46] <luisbg> crimsun,  glib-2.0 >= $GLIB_REQUIRED dnl
[19:46] <Laney> crimsun: Yeah, I've zapped that
[19:47] <crimsun> luisbg: please post the source package.
[19:47] <luisbg> http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-terminal/trunk/
[19:47] <crimsun> err...
[19:48] <luisbg> did you say source package? :P
[19:48] <luisbg> shouldn't it be able to compile from svn source?
[19:48] <crimsun> luisbg: I have no idea in what shape SVN trunk is.
[19:49] <luisbg> going to try from source package
[19:49] <luisbg> apt-get source gnome-terminal... on it's way!
[19:50] <luisbg> there should be a cool way of doing... apt-get source (and installa all build dependencies) package
[19:50] <luisbg> is it?
[19:50] <luisbg> s/installa/install
[19:50] <Laney> apt-get build-dep?
[19:50] <crimsun> `apt-get build-dep gnome-terminal && apt-get -b source gnome-terminal`
[19:51]  * luisbg feels stupid now
[19:51] <Jack_Sparrow> crimsun: HEy, I had a question for you..  I was told you had a good cli command for diagnostics?
[19:52] <crimsun> err...
[19:52] <Jack_Sparrow> crimsun: It may have been priceChiled or ljl
[19:52] <crimsun> what sort of diagnostics?
[19:52] <Jack_Sparrow> JUst to try and sort out video or sound issues
[19:53] <crimsun> video -> no idea.  What specifically for audio?
[19:53] <Jack_Sparrow> may have been networking..  I wrote some new modules for upstreamdev and I was collecting the best cli commands querries I could get
[19:53] <crimsun> Are we referring to open fds?
[19:53] <Jack_Sparrow> Ubuntu
[19:53] <crimsun> aka "what's using sound"?
[19:54] <Jack_Sparrow> I have been so busy, I dont know.  I had a note to ask you about some cli command you had people download?
[19:54] <luisbg> crimsun, a little off topic but it would really impress me if you know the answer to this one...
[19:54] <crimsun> oh, alsa-info.sh?
[19:55] <Jack_Sparrow> That sounds like it
[19:55] <luisbg> in a typical ,/configure; make; make install ... where can I define it I just want it to build the binary executable in my working directory? I don't want it to clash with my stable install running version
[19:55] <crimsun> a prelim version hacked up by the #alsa folks is at http://trilug.org/~crimsun/alsa-info.sh
[19:55] <crimsun> it's being cleaned up and incorporated into alsa-utils upstream proper.
[19:56] <crimsun> luisbg: provide [a different] --prefix
[19:56] <Jack_Sparrow> Ah, cool...
[19:59] <Jack_Sparrow> Thanks, going to go look it over now
[19:59] <luisbg> crimsun, to the configure or the make?
[19:59] <pochu> luisbg: configure
[19:59] <luisbg> pochu, ./configure --prefix (?)
[19:59] <crimsun> yes.  See --help
[20:00] <luisbg> --prefix=$HOME
[20:00] <luisbg> nice! :)
[20:00] <luisbg> I always forget how bash uses the -- for long and - for short
[20:00] <luisbg> shell is different
[20:12] <TuxCrafter> mr_pouit: hello
[20:15] <LaserJock> does the LiveCD work to install onto LVM?
[20:15] <crimsun> dunno, but I normally use the alternate for LVM.
[20:16] <LaserJock> yeah, I wonder if it can't use them at all, or just can't create LVM partitions/volume groups/etc.
[20:18] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow, no, i told you that crimsun might be able to give you some good hints about commands that can be used to troubleshoot *sound* problems specifically
[20:19] <luisbg> ok if I ./configure --prefix=$HOME ; make ; make isntall
[20:19] <luisbg> why isn't it in $HOME?
[20:19] <crimsun> what isn't in home?
[20:20] <crimsun> ~/bin/gnome-terminal or whatnot should exist
[20:20] <luisbg> ha!
[20:20] <crimsun> what precedence does ~/bin have in $PATH?
[20:20] <luisbg> ~/bin was the key
[20:20] <luisbg> lol
[20:20]  * luisbg can feel dumber and dumber every second
[20:20] <luisbg> long time I haven't touched automake stuff, besides my own work code :P
[20:21] <Jack_Sparrow> LjL: Thanks...
[20:21] <Jack_Sparrow> The script is very good... lots of good ideas in there...
[20:22] <Jack_Sparrow> LjL: We have had the baby this week so , not much sleep for me.
[20:23] <LjL> :)
[20:23] <Jack_Sparrow> Feeling very punchy.. didnt mean to make waves..
[20:30] <sistpoty> superm1: still around? just looking at gmyth...
[20:31] <superm1> yes
[20:32] <sistpoty> superm1: debian/copyright: the copyright holder (e.g. Copyright (C) 2007 INdT - Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia.) is missing, years would be nice as well
[20:32] <sistpoty> superm1: also I'd point back to gpl, as it is gpl 2 or any later version, but that's just a matter of taste
[20:32] <superm1> sure i can do that
[20:33] <sistpoty> others than that, I'll first need to take a closer look ;)
[20:34] <crimsun> Laney: thanks, uploaded.
[20:34] <Laney> crimsun: Great! Thank you!
[20:35] <superm1> sistpoty, okay thanks.  i'll avoid uploading another upload in case you see anything else, but if you don't can you just mark it as acked, and i'll just upload to the archive with the copyright update?
[20:35] <sistpoty> superm1: sure... anyways MOTUs don't need to go through revu, (but are greatly encouraged to do so)
[20:37] <sistpoty> superm1: oh, I saw s.th. else, but first need to build the package: the hardcoded dependency of gmyth-utils to libgmyth0 seems strange to me
[20:38] <sistpoty> (while it's arch:any, but doesn't come with shlibs:Depends)
[20:38] <superm1> sistpoty, it wasn't coming in from the shlibs:depends, but that could have been a mistake on my part
[20:40] <sistpoty> superm1: that would be the dh_shlibdeps -L<librarypackage> -lpath_to_shared_objects_during_build thingy (not too sure how you can do it via cdbs)
[20:40] <sistpoty> superm1: but it doesn't have any shlibs:depends, which seems wrong for an arch:any package to me ;)
[20:41] <superm1> sistpoty, let me pop them back on and see if I can finagle some more luck out of it then.
[20:41] <sistpoty> sure
[20:41] <goobsoft> If I'm building a new package based on a custom program and I want to make a man page for it, does anyone recommend using something other than groff source files?
[20:42] <sistpoty> superm1: please also run lintian on the binary packages (says s.th. about debian/changelog file being a symlink)
[20:42] <ScottK2> goobsoft: Many people use docbook and docbook2man
[20:42] <superm1> yeah i did run it on the binaries, but I saw that as a mistake with lintian
[20:42] <superm1> because there shouldn't be any problem with the changelog being a symlink
[20:43] <superm1> since they get installed together
[20:43] <sistpoty> superm1: afaict it's best practice to either symlink the entire /usr/share/doc or not symlink anything in that directory... not too sure if I that's policy though
[20:43] <ScottK2> superm1 and sistpoty: It's more a question of an Ubuntu optimization that lintian hasn't been taught about
[20:44] <ScottK2> pitti added some magic for space saving with symlinks
[20:44] <ScottK2> Not sure if that's what's up with your package or not.
[20:44] <sistpoty> ScottK2: no idea actually... it's cdbs *g*
[20:45] <sistpoty> anyway, you don't save that much with the changelog, but OTOH I don't mind it being a symlink if the packages have a hard dep on the package providing the file
[20:46] <superm1> sistpoty, yeah libmyth0 is the one that provides it, so i won't worry there
[20:47] <sistpoty> as I wrote... no blocker for me ;)
[20:48] <sistpoty> superm1: gmyth.h is 26Mb big? wow
[20:50] <superm1> sistpoty, that seems like a bit of mistake on upstream's part.  i'll contact them before uploading.  it looks like a lot of whitespace in gmyth.h
[20:50] <sistpoty> superm1: heh, yeah
[20:50] <superm1> only applicable parts are the last 32 lines and the first 10
[20:51] <ion_> A 3.25 MiB header? Nice. :-)
[20:51] <sistpoty> heh, so I guess that's where we really could save space instead of the symlinks *g+
[20:51] <superm1> hehe
[20:52] <ion_> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.1M 2008-01-16 20:33 /usr/include/boost/typeof/vector200.hpp
[20:52] <ion_> That’s the winner on my system. :-)
[20:59] <laga> KGJ|will_nen_eee: buy one
[20:59] <KGJ|will_nen_eee> nice idea :-)
[21:00] <KGJ|will_nen_eee> give me the money... although in 3 months i will have enough. but i wanna buy a new desktop pc in 1 year... hmn
[21:05] <eddyMul> I'm trying to make some changes to git-core_1.5.2.5-2build1. For Launchpad PPA, is git-core_1.5.2.5-2build1-0ubuntu1+ppa1 the right version string?
[21:06] <ScottK2> eddyMul: Why git-core?
[21:06] <crimsun> s|+|~|
[21:07] <eddyMul> ScottK2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/git-core/+bug/188218
[21:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188218 in git-core "git-core doesn't install bindings for emacsen" [Undecided,New]
[21:07] <crimsun> 1:1.5.3.8-1~ppa1  makes more sense IMO.
[21:07] <crimsun> err
[21:07] <eddyMul> crimsun: 1.5.3.8 is hardy. I'm building the gutsy package
[21:08] <ScottK2> 1.5.2.5-2ubuntu1~ppa1
[21:08] <eddyMul> crimsun: https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart just changed ~ to +, I think.....
[21:08] <crimsun> 1:1.5.2.5-2build1~ppa1, right.
[21:08] <ScottK2> Eventually you'll want to build a package for Hardy so your fix can get into the official repos
[21:09] <ScottK2> What's the current state of the art in Gutsy for resizing partitions?
[21:09] <eddyMul> ScottK2: hardy: I'll do that after I tested the gutsy version    :)
[21:10] <ScottK2> Sure.
[21:10] <eddyMul> crimsun, ScottK2: so replace "build" with "ubuntu"?
[21:10] <ScottK2> Yes
[21:10] <ScottK2> and then ~ppa1
[21:11] <minghua> In any case, 1.5.2.5-2build1-0ubuntu1+ppa1 is rather wrong.
[21:11] <minghua> Err... Should have read everything first.
[21:12] <eddyMul> ScottK2, crimsun, minghua: thanx, everyone.
[21:12] <ScottK2> You're welcome.  Thank you for showing up to help out.
[21:24] <yamal> revu offline?
[21:26] <sistpoty> yamal: looks like it... probably it got DoS'd again, I'm just trying to login to sparky
[21:28]  * yamal wonders over a beer why people fancy ddos'ing something a service like revu
[21:30] <sistpoty> yamal: last time it wasn't an intended DoS, but rather a spider not obeying robots.txt, which looked at the debdiff links as well (and that caused very much load on sparky)
[21:30] <minghua> Bad, bad spider.
[21:32] <mgunes> should I mark debdiffs as patches when submitting for review for sponsorship?
[21:32] <ScottK2> mgunes: Yes
[21:32] <minghua> Yes.
[21:32] <mgunes> done, thanks (my first) :)
[21:34] <sistpoty> grml, grml... still hanging in ssh login, and I already drank a beer, so I cannot drive to uni and hit reset at sparky (at least not before tomorrow *g*)
[21:34] <pochu> sistpoty: lukily it isn't REVU day ;)
[21:34] <sistpoty> heh
[21:34] <pochu> mgunes: and subscribe u-u-s (or u-m-s)
[21:34] <desertc> What is a SVN browser package that I can install?
[21:34] <mgunes> pochu, I did that, thanks
[21:35] <sistpoty> desertc: as in gui for svn?
[21:35] <ion_> sistpoty: A single beer? You shouldn’t have too much alcohol in your blood.
[21:36] <sistpoty> ion_: well... *g* s/single/multiple/ ;)
[21:36] <desertc> sistpoty: sigh .. uh, what do I mean.. do I download the branches and look at them locally?
[21:37] <desertc> sistpoty: you'll let me know when I start getting warmer to the terminology I am supposed to use, right?  :-)  this is all a bit new to me
[21:38] <sistpoty> desertc: I'm just not sure what you want to do/what you're looking at ;)
[21:38] <ion_> The first lesson: stay far away from SVN if you have any choice in the matter. :-)
[21:38] <desertc> to interface with svn:// what application is required?
[21:38] <desertc> is it subversion?
[21:38] <sistpoty> desertc: just from the shell: subversion (e.g. svn co http://some/place/to/the/repository)
[21:39] <desertc> k - need to install that  :)
[21:39] <ScottK2> ion_: Unless the other choice is CVS
[21:39] <sistpoty> desertc: but there are gui's as well (e.g. rapidsvn package)
[21:39] <desertc> which do you recommend?
[21:40] <sistpoty> ion_, ScottK2: I'm forced to use cvs at work :/
[21:41] <ion_> sistpoty: Look at the bright side: you’ll die within a century.
[21:41] <sistpoty> heh
[21:42]  * minghua thinks SVN is still the best choice if you have a relative large team, and many members are not computer experts and use Windows.
[21:43] <ion_> Also, if nobody ever needs to merge anything and everyone likes slow software.
[21:44] <mwolson> :^)
[21:45] <minghua> Well, it's almost a given that merge is not a frequent thing when most team members are not computer experts...
[21:47] <yamal> sistpoty: seems it's alife again
[21:48] <sistpoty> not completely... but at least I could login in the meantime
[21:49]  * sistpoty wisthles
[21:54] <lopezlean> Hello. When i upload a package to my PPA it fails... can anyone help me ( sorry for stupid question )
[21:54] <lopezlean> log message says:
[21:54] <lopezlean> dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture i386
[21:54] <lopezlean>  /usr/bin/fakeroot debian/rules clean
[21:54] <lopezlean> debian/cdbs/cmake.mk:30: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/buildcore.mk: No such file or directory
[21:54] <lopezlean> debian/cdbs/cmake.mk:45: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk: No such file or directory
[21:54] <lopezlean> debian/cdbs/zmviewer.mk:5: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
[21:54] <lopezlean> debian/cdbs/zmviewer.mk:6: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk: No such file or directory
[21:54] <lopezlean> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk'.  Stop.
[21:54] <lopezlean> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: /usr/bin/fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2
[21:54] <lopezlean> ******************************************************************************
[21:54] <pochu> !paste | lopezlean
[21:54] <ubotu> lopezlean: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[21:54] <geser> lopezlean: did you list cdbs in Build-Depends?
[21:54] <lopezlean> ok, sorry
[21:54] <desertc> I need a crash course in building debian packages.
[21:55] <lopezlean> log is here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11734932/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.zmviewer_0.1.6-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[21:55] <pochu> !packagingguide | desertc
[21:55] <ubotu> desertc: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
[21:56] <geser> lopezlean: add cdbs to Build-Depends
[21:56] <lopezlean> geser: nop... thanks... and sorry
[21:56] <desertc> pochu: thank you
[21:58] <superm1> sistpoty, yeah adding the shlibs back in is working this time around.  wasn't in a very early version of the package.  i've got everything cleaned up and let upstream know about that problem on the header file (with a local fix), so i'll get this into the archive now.  Thanks for looking it over.
[21:58] <sistpoty> np
[21:59] <lopezlean> geser: yes :). thanks a lot
[22:04] <jdong> ryanakca: so you uploaded into Ubuntu to close a Debian bug? :D
[22:05] <desertc> I checked out a debian svn and there was no source code within
[22:05] <desertc> ... does that make sense?
[22:06] <crimsun> meaning a svn snapshot of a source package?  If so, which?
[22:07] <desertc> crimsun: I just checked out svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-voip/speex/
[22:07] <pochu> superm1: is libgmyth-dev in the archive? I can't find it.
[22:07] <desertc> Lots of files which describe the program, but no program.
[22:08] <superm1> pochu, its in NEW
[22:08] <superm1> pochu, so gstreamer's plugins will go into depwait
[22:08] <pochu> superm1: that explains it :)
[22:08] <minghua> desertc: Only a debian/ directory?
[22:09] <desertc> right
[22:09] <superm1> pochu, i talked to seb128 about it, and after gmyth-dev enters, gonna get it into main as soon as i can, and then totem will get gmyth support too
[22:09] <desertc> ^ minghua:
[22:10] <minghua> desertc: It seems svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-voip/speex/ is a svn-buildpackage layout.
[22:12] <crimsun> desertc: were you expecting upstream source?
[22:12] <crimsun> it's the packaging infrastructure, to which minghua alluded.
[22:12] <pochu> superm1: the only "bad" thing is that it will mean we can't be in sync with debian... unless you package it in debian too ;-)
[22:13] <superm1> pochu, yeah i want to get into debian too
[22:13] <minghua> I think maybe desertc should just start from a source package, instead of trying svn checkout.
[22:13] <superm1> and that's the feel for upstream after talking to them
[22:13] <desertc> minghua crimsun: I expected the program code to be in there... is that not how it is done?
[22:13] <pochu> superm1: that would be super
[22:13] <superm1> but this late in the game, this is the best way
[22:13] <pochu> superm1: yeah, I agree with you
[22:13] <minghua> desertc: It's not in this case.  You also need released tarballs from upstream.
[22:13] <pochu> since you need to do the MIR...
[22:14] <superm1> pochu, should I just do it before it clears NEW you think?
[22:14] <desertc> minghua: upstream being debian, or being speex ?
[22:14] <superm1> and see if i can convince ubuntu-archive to just bring it right into main instead
[22:14] <pochu> superm1: submitting to debian? the sooner, the better.
[22:14] <pochu> superm1: oh, writting the mir!
[22:15] <crimsun> desertc: upstream upstream.
[22:15] <pochu> superm1: I'll write it up, but won't ask the archive admins until it's new'ed
[22:15] <superm1> pochu, okay great thanks :)
[22:15] <minghua> desertc: speex.
[22:15] <desertc> upstream upstream?  ... I am going to take a break for a while and get some air.
[22:15] <pochu> superm1: s/I'll/I'd/ ... I won't do it for you as I don't know the code ;)
[22:16] <superm1> pochu, hehe, i thought that was a little too nice, but wasn't going to complain :)
[22:16] <pochu> hehe
[22:16] <superm1> pochu, i've got a few things to bring up to debian, so i'll have to touch bases with one of the DD's that hangs out here
[22:25] <jmspeex> minghua: what do you need from upstream?
[22:27] <minghua> jmspeex: I don't need anything, desertc needs the released speex tarballs from speex upstream.
[22:27] <jmspeex> ok
[22:29] <sistpoty> hm... now I know who's DoS'ing revu...
[22:29] <sistpoty> *whistle*
[22:30] <ion_> Sorry, i forgot a ‘ping revu.tauware.de’ running in a terminal.
[22:30] <sistpoty> I guess I shouldn't have started the ghc6 build on sparky, it takes enourmous amounts of memory, and that's what sparky doesn't have
[22:30] <sistpoty> should be back to normal in a few seconds
[22:31] <ion_> How much memory does the box have?
[22:31] <crimsun> 640KB.
[22:31] <sistpoty> MemTotal:       125000 kB
[22:31] <ion_> Ouch :-)
[22:32] <sistpoty> hrmpf, so I guess I'll need to setup spooky this week to debug the ghc6 build failure *g*
[22:33] <sistpoty> (build failure on sparc i.e.)
[22:34] <ion_> I really should get around to actually studying haskell some day.
[22:34] <sistpoty> it was really hard for me to learn haskell, and I guess I've forgotten half of what I learned by now
[22:36] <desertc> Will I be able to run CDBS (common debian build system) from within Ubuntu ?
[22:36] <ion_> I know the basics of how a functional programming language works, but i’d need to study the haskell syntax and libraries. Probably best to start some project using the language.
[22:36] <ion_> Yes, CDBS works in Ubuntu just like in Debian.
[22:38] <minghua> If I don't know about functional programming language at all and want to learn one, should I try lisp or haskell?
[22:39] <sistpoty> I haven't programmed lisp yet, only scheme so far, but I'd tend to haskell
[22:39] <ion_> Lisp is a good starting point to learn any kind of programming. :-)
[22:39] <ion_> That is, a dialect of Lisp.
[22:40] <sistpoty> yes
[22:40] <ion_> Some awesome video lectures: http://johan.kiviniemi.name/blag/2007/02/13/structure-and-interpretation-of-computer-programs/
[22:43] <minghua> Well, too late for starting point, I suppose. :-)  I learned programming from basic.
[22:43] <sistpoty> welcome to the club, minghua
[22:43]  * Fujitsu admits to that too.
[22:43] <ion_> My first language was Basic as well, unfortunately. :-)
[22:43] <ion_> It could have been worse, though: http://tnx.nl/php.jpg ;-)
[22:44] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[22:44] <sistpoty> well, I did quite some php programming back then, which is why I really hate that language now *g*
[22:45] <Fujitsu> I still have to deal with PHP quite a bit at work (and of course loathe it).
[22:47] <ScottK2> I've never done PHP, but my first programming on a microcomputer was BASIC on a Radio Shack TRS-80 model 1.
[22:47] <ScottK2> It'd give almost random results that I was convinced was my programming, but it was just the computer being flaky.
[22:51] <sistpoty> heh, if my programs didn't work, it was always my fault *g*
[22:52] <minghua> Hmm, somehow the news of alpha 4 release makes to slashdot front page.
[22:53] <Fujitsu> Hm, indeed.
[22:53] <jdong> minghua: any jokes about the release name yet?
[22:53]  * Fujitsu waits for the comments complainting about it.
[22:54] <Fujitsu> `Still doesn't work properly. But 8.04, it's bloody nice.' Uh, right.
[22:54] <jdong> Fujitsu: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=440100&cid=22276728 found one
[22:55] <Fujitsu> Indeed.
[22:57] <minghua> jdong: It's "from the that-bird-can-take-a-beating dept."  Don't know if it counts as a joke or not.
[22:58] <jdong> minghua: sounds like one to me :)
[23:07] <james_w> Fujitsu: I have moved the session to Wednesday at the request of Luca. I hope this still suits you.
[23:07] <Fujitsu> That should be fine.
[23:12]  * sistpoty is off to bed
[23:12] <sistpoty> cya
[23:27] <ryanakca> jdong: no, I was going to upload to Debian, then sync to Ubuntu, so I ran out of time, so I uploaded a copy to each, and then we'll get a sync from debian at hardy+1
[23:33] <pochu> ryanakca: you can still request syncs
[23:44] <ryanakca> pochu: yes, but it still needs to get sponsored, threw NEW, and then have the sync processed into Ubuntu
[23:46] <ScottK2> ryanakca: If it's been newed already, it won't need newed again when you sync it