[00:04] nixternal: Gotta run out for a while. scribus is still building. I'll ping you when I have something [00:08] OK, I should be around for a bit...doing some book writing right now [00:10] * dasKreech peeks over nixternal's e-shoulder [00:11] I was wondering if kubuntu is also going to have a frontend for .apt files [00:12] * ScottK2 hopes not [00:13] why [00:13] ScottK2: why? [00:15] security issues [00:15] !find libspectre hardy [00:15] Package/file libspectre does not exist in hardy [00:15] giving something like this to a user who doesn't no any better, makes it that much easier for that new user to add a 3rd party repo that is dangerous [00:16] nixternal: true. But I think that the functionality is more important. Any way this is no different then someone telling someone how to add it themselves [00:17] This way it is more professional [00:17] well, if there is a .deb file easily available, all a person has to do is click on the link and they will be asked, do you want to save or do you want to install... [00:17] that does not have updates [00:17] there is no need for 3rd party repos imho [00:18] imho? [00:18] how many 3rd party repos are out there that people really need to have? [00:18] in my honest opinion [00:18] I like medibuntu [00:18] Also the wine one is good [00:19] And it seems that there would be more of them for more specific purposes [00:19] the wine one was only good for a while because we had some slowness development wise on our part, but you see that guy \sh_away up top in the user list for this page, he is back and stronger than ever, which now makes the wine repo obsolete :) [00:20] ok [00:20] if applications are good enough to really be packaged and distributed, they should have no problem getting them into a distro officially, so they wouldnn't need a third party repo [00:20] for typical users, they will not have a need really for 3rd party repos..I would have to see a very strong user case supporting otherwise [00:20] I still think we should give the option [00:21] Installing a third party Apt repository is too hard. <- first sentence in that spec [00:21] tells me it was written a while ago [00:21] hah [00:22] with the documentation available, there should be no reason for the creation of an application to add one line to a file...my opinion though [00:23] again I want it to look more professional [00:23] well, it looks professional in Adept and Synaptic [00:24] We also do not want to fall (more?) behind compared to ubuntu. [00:24] having someone click on a link and having it automatically do something for user who doesn't know any better, is the reason Microsoft is dealing with viruses, spyware, malware, tupperware, and have no underware :p [00:24] lol [00:24] screw ubuntu and falling behind..I am sick of hearing about that [00:24] tekteen: not everything ubuntu does need to be done for kubuntu... [00:25] actually, adding a repo in adept is easier than it is in synaptic last I heard [00:25] but I don't use any of those [00:25] especially if it is a bad idea in the first place [00:25] cli is much quicker :) [00:25] I do not know how to use adept [00:25] ya, and I guarantee Ubuntu isn't doing it anyways [00:25] it is very easy in adept now [00:25] never used it [00:26] well then let me tell you: it is easy ;-) [00:26] ok [00:26] tekteen: how can you say we need more apps if you don't know the ones we have? [00:27] not as easy as 'copy link' then 'sudo emacs /etc/apt/sources.list' then paste where I want it and then C-x C-s :p [00:27] I guess you have a point there [00:27] or is it f [00:27] damn, i forgot [00:27] x s [00:27] ya, that's it [00:27] nixternal: learn to use cat :) [00:28] So far you have convinced me. There is one more thing left. Kubuntu will be incompatible with the file type [00:28] or just do: [00:28] ubuntu will be [00:29] echo "deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy main restricted universe multiverse" | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list [00:29] tekteen: according to nixternal it is highly unlikely ubuntu will be [00:29] what file type are we talking about? [00:29] nixternal: the apt thingy [00:30] I forget what it is called and I closed out that wiki page [00:30] Developers are going to have issues if the need to give ubuntu packages and only parts of ubuntu use .apt files [00:30] found it [00:30] Nightrose: ubuntu is not going to be doing it? [00:31] tekteen: I said it is unlikely according to nixternal [00:31] and I trust him there [00:31] ok [00:31] holy smokes, Scott Richie of UNIX fame is the drafter of that spec :) [00:32] ? [00:32] hehe well at the time of "copy that line into your sources.list" it made sense... [00:32] more than it does now [00:33] there is no way in hell that Ubuntu would adopt this, especially after the HUGE complaints of "not supporting issues caused by 3rd party repos" last year [00:34] gn8 [00:37] ahh, if you read Scott Ritchie's wiki page, the drafter of the spec, he would like to revive the idea as it is from Dapper [00:37] Jerome hasn't worked on it in a long time and can't do the code work anymore [00:37] so something tells me this is a stale spec with comments keeping the date on the bottom of the page recent [00:42] tekteen: I can honestly say that Ubuntu is going to be following that specification. There is definitely no code activity, and if there is, it isn't located any place readily available for review, and there hasn't been one comment on the spec from any TB/Canonical members at all [00:43] the spec was created in 2006, then 1 year, 7 months, and 2 weeks later, Scott Ritchie decided he would like to work on by making himself the drafter and having Jerome as the approver, with nobody as an assignee..that typically means, it isn't going anywhere fast [00:44] * Nightrose thinks nixternal missed a "not" in that first sentence ;-) [00:44] Nightrose: good catch [00:44] nixternal: ok [00:44] Ubuntu is NOT going to be following that specification :) [00:44] nixternal: err, surely you didn't mistake Scott for Dennis? [00:44] ;-) [00:44] Implementation: Needs Infrastructure [00:44] crimsun: I did [00:44] Scott is considerably younger, at least in appearance at UDS-Boston, than Dennis. [00:44] my buddy is Scott Richie [00:44] but this Scott is Ritchie [00:45] and I got excited with my funny bone :p [00:45] we're talking a couple generations difference [00:45] just a couple [00:46] and here is the funny part...when I worked for AT&T, you better know who Dennis, Doug, and Ken are, otherwise you will fail the employee tests they always sneak in [00:48] thankfully I don't know who any of 'em are. [00:48] are/is* [00:48] they are the 3 at&t employees who created unix [00:49] what's unix? [00:49] hi hunger [00:49] unix is the NT kernel [00:49] now it is what controls the mouse in vista [00:51] I knew you'd know all about vista. [00:51] :=) [00:51] hehe [00:51] I am using it right now in order to help with writing the "Official Ubuntu Book" [00:51] hehe [00:51] we are required to write it in Microsoft Word [00:52] makes me dislike the book even more [00:52] lol... [00:52] nixternal: writing the kubuntu chapter? [00:52] and the entire chapter is "LTSP" which isn't even a part of Edubuntu [00:52] * ryanakca wonders if any open source projects typeset their printed books with LaTeX [00:52] I am writing/rewriting the Edubuntu chapter of all chapters [00:52] why?!? [00:53] nixternal: what? LTSP always gets installed with Edubuntu [00:53] seeing as I created a big majority of their documentation a couple of years ago, I was "highly recommended" by mako [00:53] dasKreech: not any more [00:53] Edubuntu is going to be an add-on CD for Ubuntu [00:53] LTSP will be a part of the Ubuntu Alternative CD [00:54] wazzup! [00:54] hey vorian [00:54] wasabi vorian [00:54] howdy ryanakca, nixternal [00:54] congrats btw :) [00:55] umm, me or ryanakca? and if so, for what? [00:55] nixternal: I don't know [00:55] sorry [00:55] congrats nixternal on your election [00:55] nixternal: I haven't done anything noteworthy lately :) [00:55] ryanakca: heh, didn't know if you became president again [00:55] nixternal: lol [00:55] ryanakca: like I have? all I do is upset people obviously [00:55] vorian: ahh, thanks [00:55] oooh, contest closed 55 minutes [00:55] * ryanakca checks the mockups [00:55] It's been a crazy week [00:56] append ago to that minutes line [00:56] heh [00:56] nixternal: you win, congratulations :D [00:56] hhahahaha [00:56] umm, no votes or what? [00:56] plus, I think we need a real "artist" to work on a mockup [00:57] * dasKreech blames nixternal [00:58] nixternal: well... we haven't had any mockups in a week... since we last talked about it... the only mockup other than yours is a copy of the Ubuntu site in blue [00:58] dasKreech: you don't have to blame me anymore, it just comes naturally now [00:58] ... which we were informed wasn't desired even before the beginning of the contest [00:58] nixternal: do you know any? [00:58] heh [00:58] k to the w to the w to the i to the i [00:58] lol [00:58] hehe [00:59] nixternal: I've started listening to Lupe Fiasco. He's really good [01:00] * ryanakca wonders if we should ping k^w^w^i^i to ask him for a mockup, and act as if he submitted it before the contest ending... [01:00] lol [01:01] kwwii: ? [01:01] I packaged a nifty little ditty called Lemon POS. [01:01] its a point of sale frontend [01:01] kwwii: since you're the only real artist we know, if you wanted to submit a mockup or two for the website some time this week, we'll act as if you submitted it before the contest end :) [01:01] you gotta love IP recording in wordpress [01:02] when you get those "Anonymous" posts, it is easy to find them on IRC [01:02] lol [01:02] hehe [01:02] /who i.p.ad.dress [01:02] ? [01:03] most of the anonymous posts were mine [01:03] * vorian hides [01:03] * ryanakca wonders how he could s/~ryan@d235-228-172.home1.cgocable.net/~ryan@ryanak.ca/ [01:03] no, but you can easily figure them out when their distro is also attached to their comment [01:04] nixternal: you have upload/sponsor/maintainer access to Debian? [01:04] maintainer yes, upload depends, and sponsor no [01:05] so, that means I am not a DD, in which you are looking for :) [01:05] any idler in here have sponsor access/perms / is a DD ? [01:05] nixternal: My debian/rules change worked on i386 for scribus. I'll have a .dsc for you in a moment. [01:05] thanks for the warning [01:05] guess that means I need to reboot from vista into kubuntu :p [01:05] lol [01:06] just when I was having fun doing a disk defrag [01:06] ooh, I heard 'open source' on tv [01:06] * nixternal goes and see [01:06] s [01:06] EWW! [01:06] OPEN SORES! yuck [01:06] hmm... one thing about Vista that I dislike is having to hit 'Alt' to see the apps menubar [01:06] lol! [01:06] lol [01:07] that's how you see the menubar? I will be damn [01:07] I thought it was the new thing to just keep clicking color icons that mean absolutely nothing until you find what you are looking for [01:08] hehe [01:08] HOLY SMOKES MICROSOFT RIPPED OFF KONQI! [01:08] nixternal: http://www.kitterman.com/test/scribus_1.3.3.11.dfsg-1ubuntu2.dsc [01:08] whadda?!? [01:08] who has Office 2007 on their machine? [01:08] eh? [01:08] My mom's does, why? [01:08] go into an Office 2007 app and hit alt, you will see what happens [01:09] okies, /me runs up to check [01:09] ScottK2: rebooting into kubuntu now [01:10] nixternal: alt, and then letter to select option? [01:10] just tap alt [01:10] you get those similar little squares with the letters in them like you do with Konqi when you tap the ctrl key [01:10] did, and then a letter to select the menubar's submenu showed up... [01:10] yeah [01:11] that was never like that before [01:11] menubar--- submenu? what? [01:11] well <0ffice 2007 [01:11] today was the first time I used 2007 [01:11] err, really used 2007 [01:11] my mom swears by it... [01:11] sadly... [01:11] she needs to be popped one, along with jjesse...ribbon lovers! [01:11] My mom swears at it [01:11] lol [01:12] !nixternal [01:12] Oh no! The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived! He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too! [01:12] oooh, free money? [01:12] I do think that Vista > OS X [01:12] * ryanakca is saving up to buy a coffee grinder... Mazzer Mini ;)... and then I'm saving up for Uni... [01:12] much like 3 > 3i [01:12] I have a brand new Mac Pro, and I haven't even booted it up in 2 weeks [01:12] OS X is the most annoying OS ever [01:13] OS X... never used. Vista? I only use it when I have to fix my mom's computer. [01:13] say what? [01:13] it's pretty cool, IMHO. [01:13] crack is cool, os x isn't [01:13] mhb: What if i=0 ? [01:13] bahaha [01:13] * ryanakca debates between doing some bzflag server admin work and C++ [01:13] I mean it's still proprietary, but you can connect via ssh to your linux out-of-the-box [01:13] when I click a RED X, I expect it to close out the app, not shrink it and bounce it at the bottom of the screen [01:14] hahaha [01:14] lol [01:14] mac os - liger [01:14] that's next, mark my words [01:14] nixternal: I could hear the Windows user on Linux [01:14] hmm... one of my favorite keyboard shortcuts has to be ctrl-alt-esc [01:14] nixternal: "when I double click the icon I expect it not to open twice!" [01:14] mhb: no, hear this! and Vista and OS X stink because they don't have a bouncing icon to notify me that something is happening :p [01:15] ... except that that prehistoric skull & cross-bones really needs a make-over [01:15] who uses icons anyways? :) [01:15] ryanakca: ha.... thought I recognized you :) [01:15] nosrednaekim: wadda? [01:15] ryanakca: bzFlag [01:15] lol [01:16] * ryanakca runs the bzflag servers on bzfmaps.net from port 6200 to 6300 ;) [01:16] nixternal: but I have never run Vista, I cannot compare. [01:16] nixternal: every OS has some cool stuff [01:16] that it does [01:16] vorian: I was going for macOSX Cheetara [01:16] nixternal: for example the composite char input on OS X is awesome [01:16] OS X has a bit more of a prestigious look to it honestly [01:17] ^5 dasKreech, that's a winner :) [01:17] but usability is garbage [01:17] when you press say ", the cursor turns yellow and you see what accent you typed [01:17] " as in ö as in Böhm [01:18] hard to appreciate when you're named John Smith, I guess :o) [01:18] or Rich Johnson :p [01:19] he is giving out money!! [01:19] * nixternal lost his money card today for real though [01:19] so I can't give out anything [01:19] not until next week at least :) [01:19] lol [01:19] nixternal: also try launching their "system preferences" and using the quick search [01:20] their system preferences look like our system settings [01:20] mhb: I do wish we had that in KDE... the "o for ö, 'e for é, etc. [01:20] or our system settings look like their system preferences [01:20] the latter... [01:20] nixternal: that is one fancy effect, also they have the keywords worked out really well, so you can input "change the background" and it shows which module to click [01:20] mhb: I ended up creating my own keyboard layout... instead of having to relearn a whole new layout for french dvorak, I just added a pile of deadkeys to the english layout [01:21] * Jucato wonders why he butt in.. goes back to be.d... [01:21] ryanakca: well we do have keyboards that can combine those chars [01:21] ryanakca: like mine (Czech), can do the composite input, but it is not visible [01:21] mhb: like you have a keyboard with keys dedicated solely to 'é' or 'ö' or something? [01:22] ryanakca: nope [01:22] ryanakca: just have that " sign and standard o,u,a,e,i [01:23] mhb: yeah, well, thats what I did to the dvorak layout... alt-"-[aoeui], etc. [01:24] ah. [01:24] like, the Dvorak-fr layout ( http://www.algo.be/ergo/imprime/dvorak-fr.pdf ) looks nothing like the Standard Dvorak layout... [01:24] * ryanakca considers publishing his layout to planet or contributing it to X11 [01:25] ryanakca: that is logical, because the layout is based on character frequency [01:25] not that X11 would take it ;) [01:25] I could never in my life figure out how to do those characters...I always copied and pasted them, or did "Insert Symbol" :) [01:25] ryanakca: which is different in English and French [01:25] mhb: yeah, but then I'd have to use three layouts... qwerty at school since they wont let me use Dvorak, then Dvorak-en and Dvorak-fr at home. [01:26] Two is challenging enough... my qwerty skills plumetted now that I use Dvorak [01:26] mhb: can't we do that with descriptions? [01:26] nixternal: you use dvorak or qwerty? [01:26] qwerty [01:26] I have used it for almost 30 years, I can't even try something else [01:27] Yeah there was some dvorak hate at the release party :) [01:27] nixternal: Scribus building OK? [01:27] and I am not into that "you can teach an old dog new tricks" [01:27] ScottK2: 56% [01:27] Cool [01:27] err, 54% [01:28] heh, 30 years, I guess its ingrained too deeply into you to change [01:28] * ScottK2 goes back to the movie with the kids. [01:28] * nixternal has the dog show on === bddebian2 is now known as bddebian [01:28] old dogs? [01:28] ya [01:29] doing new tricks? [01:29] nope [01:29] old dogs do old tricks [01:29] sit, laydown, rollover, play dead [01:29] oh wait, he is to old, so he isn't playing dead [01:30] haha [01:30] lol [01:30] la petite mort [01:30] that's what I should be doing right now [01:31] curse this emotional instability [01:31] * ryanakca cracks open Accelerated C++ and tries to stop procrastinating [01:31] mhb: lol [01:31] * ryanakca pulls out comfy feather bed and a feather pillow and pushes mhb into it [01:32] ryanakca: I'm in it, it's the emotional instability (also known as "I'm down") that keeps me awake [01:32] ah, bummer [01:33] I have a dream! [01:33] it is to create a groovy app from scratch [01:33] to do what? [01:33] however I have a block! I have no idea what that app is :) [01:34] * Jucato refills nixternal's meds [01:34] ya, I am totally out [01:34] I want a pictureflow kioslave! [01:34] ran out this morning [01:34] hmm... [01:34] that would be kool nosrednaekim [01:34] nixternal: you could finish writing/porting KCipher to C++/KDE4/Qt4 for me if you want :) [01:35] I actually wrote a little python app that did picture flow of whatever images I told it to use [01:35] nosrednaekim: I want a systemsettings module that launches external apps! [01:35] wth is KCipher? [01:35] nixternal: really? could I have the code? [01:35] nosrednaekim: not right now, it is GPL vDeleted [01:35] ^_^ [01:35] it wasn't much of an app actually [01:35] 50 lines of code maybe [01:35] Python [01:35] nixternal: lol, its a little educational app... I'm trying to do something similar to Kalzium... Basically, it teaches people about historic ciphers... [01:35] I was messing around with trying to learn Python [01:36] * dasKreech puts Jucato to bed [01:36] * Jucato goes to bed [01:36] yeah.... I wanted to build something to do that.... didn't really try very hard to figure it out though [01:36] select the cipher, input, and it outputs, I'm also looking at having a small dictionarry/encyclopedia plugin (thats the part similar to Kalzium) that gives a brief history of the cipher [01:36] oh shoot, I didn't even see Jucato hiding amongst us slackers :) [01:36] night Jucato [01:36] * Jucato keeps a low profile [01:36] nixternal: gardenSkape [01:36] ryanakca: it's actually 09:36... but I woke up very early soooo... :) [01:36] why does that sound familiar dasKreech? [01:37] Jucato: don't gz your .profile that makes it useless [01:37] Jucato: AM? [01:37] ryanakca: yeah [01:37] nixternal: cool app from skratch :) [01:37] lol, early being? 11 last night, after an hour sleep? [01:37] but the name sounds very familiar [01:37] woke up at 5:00 AM... too early for me :P [01:37] lol [01:37] nixternal: you made it I think [01:38] was that you and I talking about that like 20 years ago? [01:38] yes [01:38] ahh, OK..I couldn't remember [01:38] * ryanakca feels young... 20 years ago?!? [01:38] took way to many drugs this week [01:39] ryanakca: the drugs and liker age him beyond us mortal [01:39] +a [01:39] -a+s [01:39] lol [01:40] bbiaf, going to go eat some musical fruit [01:40] * ryanakca goes to get a glass of water and really gets to C++ [01:40] * dasKreech goes back to jot notes on moinmoin and gardensKape [01:51] Jucato: still not sleeping? [02:03] nixternal: heh, shooting in Chicago? *keeps listening to the news on BBC Radio2* [02:03] don't talk to me about shootings...just watched runaway jury :) [02:04] any good? [02:05] great... it was anti-gun which I didn't like, but otherwise it was a great movie [02:05] * ryanakca wishes you could ssh into your 'Linux' godaddy hosting account... [02:05] thought godaddy was Windows? [02:06] supposedly they have Linux hosting too [02:06] some teacher / "professional signer" at school is releasing a CD towards the end of the month and asked me to setup a website for his CD... wordpress + mandigo should do it :) [02:06] oh [02:06] Just they get the large breasted woman to stand by the windows servers [02:16] ScottK2: if [ -f /home/nixternal/work/ubuntu/pkg/scribus/tmp/scribus-1.3.3.11.dfsg/debian/scribus/usr/lib64 ] ; then [02:16] /bin/sh: Syntax error: end of file unexpected [02:26] adding \ after then and then adding ; \ after the statement fixes it, however back to the chmod issue [03:05] ryanakca: you still around? [03:05] nixternal: yes [03:05] nixternal: succeeded at world domination yet? [03:06] Hobbsee: no, it seems my world is being pulled from underneath me...need to put on some cleats I guess to help stop that :) [03:06] ryanakca: I have a gift for you to try out [03:06] ugh [03:06] nixternal: well, you have to suceed at MOTU first... [03:06] http://www.nixternal.com/~rj/flow.tar.bz2 <- download, untar it, and then just run ./flow [03:06] tell me what you think [03:07] Hobbsee: I need to keep my foot, hands, and ass out of my mouth first I guess [03:07] ... am I supposed to see anything? [03:07] you should see something I would think [03:08] are you on amd64? [03:08] i386 :) [03:08] the machine is a 64... I'm just running the 386 kernel [03:08] it should work though [03:08] ./flow [03:09] what does it do? [03:09] oh, nevermind, the window opened minimized ;) [03:09] oh [03:09] is that what you were after? [03:09] was that you that was even asking now? [03:10] nixternal: no, but thats fricken awesome :D [03:10] I think nosred* wanted it actually [03:10] the source is in google code already [03:11] * ryanakca nods [03:11] so having it read a stream is all it needs added to it [03:11] wasn't someone blogging intensively about in on planet KDE last summer? [03:11] the code is unbelievably small too [03:11] or two summers ago? [03:11] just last week [03:11] lol [03:11] lol [03:11] that's how I remembered it [03:11] well, someone was blogging about it some summer ago :) [03:11] have a link to last weeks blog post? [03:12] My kde3 apps don't seem to like my KDE4 environment... [03:12] http://ariya.blogspot.com/2008/02/to-blur-or-not-to-blur.html [03:12] nixternal: Urgh. Thanks. That doesn't fix the chmod issue? [03:12] no it doesn't [03:13] it still gives the same error on chmod saying it cannot access, no such file or directory [03:13] and that I can't figure out...I have tried different things, but it still does it [03:15] Weird [03:18] Do you also experience bug 188498? [03:18] Launchpad bug 188498 in kdebase "konqueror opens new window" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188498 [03:20]