[00:04] <ScottK2> nixternal: Gotta run out for a while. scribus is still building.  I'll ping you when I have something
[00:08] <nixternal> OK, I should be around for a bit...doing some book writing right now
[00:10]  * dasKreech peeks over nixternal's e-shoulder
[00:11] <tekteen> I was wondering if kubuntu is also going to have a frontend for .apt files <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyApt?highlight=(apt)>
[00:12]  * ScottK2 hopes not
[00:13] <tekteen> why
[00:13] <tekteen> ScottK2: why?
[00:15] <nixternal> security issues
[00:15] <dasKreech> !find libspectre hardy
[00:15] <ubotu> Package/file libspectre does not exist in hardy
[00:15] <nixternal> giving something like this to a user who doesn't no any better, makes it that much easier for that new user to add a 3rd party repo that is dangerous
[00:16] <tekteen> nixternal: true. But I think that the functionality is more important. Any way this is no different then someone telling someone how to add it themselves
[00:17] <tekteen> This way it is more professional
[00:17] <nixternal> well, if there is a .deb file easily available, all a person has to do is click on the link and they will be asked, do you want to save or do you want to install...
[00:17] <tekteen> that does not have updates
[00:17] <nixternal> there is no need for 3rd party repos imho
[00:18] <tekteen> imho?
[00:18] <nixternal> how many 3rd party repos are out there that people really need to have?
[00:18] <nixternal> in my honest opinion
[00:18] <tekteen> I like medibuntu
[00:18] <tekteen> Also the wine one is good
[00:19] <tekteen> And it seems that there would be more of them for more specific purposes
[00:19] <nixternal> the wine one was only good for a while because we had some slowness development wise on our part, but you see that guy \sh_away up top in the user list for this page, he is back and stronger than ever, which now makes the wine repo obsolete :)
[00:20] <tekteen> ok
[00:20] <nixternal> if applications are good enough to really be packaged and distributed, they should have no problem getting them into a distro officially, so they wouldnn't need a third party repo
[00:20] <nixternal> for typical users, they will not have a need really for 3rd party repos..I would have to see a very strong user case supporting otherwise
[00:20] <tekteen> I still think we should give the option
[00:21] <nixternal> Installing a third party Apt repository is too hard.  <- first sentence in that spec
[00:21] <nixternal> tells me it was written a while ago
[00:21] <nosrednaekim> hah
[00:22] <nixternal> with the documentation available, there should be no reason for the creation of an application to add one line to a file...my opinion though
[00:23] <tekteen> again I want it to look more professional
[00:23] <nixternal> well, it looks professional in Adept and Synaptic
[00:24] <tekteen> We also do not want to fall (more?) behind compared to ubuntu.
[00:24] <nixternal> having someone click on a link and having it automatically do something for user who doesn't know any better, is the reason Microsoft is dealing with viruses, spyware, malware, tupperware, and have no underware :p
[00:24] <tekteen> lol
[00:24] <nixternal> screw ubuntu and falling behind..I am sick of hearing about that
[00:24] <Nightrose> tekteen: not everything ubuntu does need to be done for kubuntu...
[00:25] <nixternal> actually, adding a repo in adept is easier than it is in synaptic last I heard
[00:25] <nixternal> but I don't use any of those
[00:25] <Nightrose> especially if it is a bad idea in the first place
[00:25] <nixternal> cli is much quicker :)
[00:25] <tekteen> I do not know how to use adept
[00:25] <nixternal> ya, and I guarantee Ubuntu isn't doing it anyways
[00:25] <Nightrose> it is very easy in adept now
[00:25] <tekteen> never used it
[00:26] <Nightrose> well then let me tell you: it is easy ;-)
[00:26] <tekteen> ok
[00:26] <dasKreech> tekteen: how can you say we need more apps if you don't know the ones we have?
[00:27] <nixternal> not as easy as 'copy link' then 'sudo emacs /etc/apt/sources.list' then paste where I want it and then C-x C-s :p
[00:27] <tekteen> I guess you have a point there
[00:27] <nixternal> or is it f
[00:27] <nixternal> damn, i forgot
[00:27] <nixternal> x s
[00:27] <nixternal> ya, that's it
[00:27] <dasKreech> nixternal: learn to use cat :)
[00:28] <tekteen> So far you have convinced me. There is one more thing left. Kubuntu will be incompatible with the file type
[00:28] <nixternal> or just do:
[00:28] <tekteen> ubuntu will be
[00:29] <nixternal> echo "deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy main restricted universe multiverse" | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list
[00:29] <Nightrose> tekteen: according to nixternal it is highly unlikely ubuntu will be
[00:29] <nixternal> what file type are we talking about?
[00:29] <Nightrose> nixternal: the apt thingy
[00:30] <nixternal> I forget what it is called and I closed out that wiki page
[00:30] <tekteen> Developers are going to have issues if the need to give ubuntu packages and only parts of ubuntu use .apt files
[00:30] <nixternal> found it
[00:30] <tekteen> Nightrose: ubuntu is not going to be doing it?
[00:31] <Nightrose> tekteen: I said it is unlikely according to nixternal
[00:31] <Nightrose> and I trust him there
[00:31] <tekteen> ok
[00:31] <nixternal> holy smokes, Scott Richie of UNIX fame is the drafter of that spec :)
[00:32] <tekteen> ?
[00:32] <Nightrose> hehe well at the time of "copy that line into your sources.list" it made sense...
[00:32] <Nightrose> more than it does now
[00:33] <nixternal> there is no way in hell that Ubuntu would adopt this, especially after the HUGE complaints of "not supporting issues caused by 3rd party repos" last year
[00:34] <blizzzek> gn8
[00:37] <nixternal> ahh, if you read Scott Ritchie's wiki page, the drafter of the spec, he would like to revive the idea as it is from Dapper
[00:37] <nixternal> Jerome hasn't worked on it in a long time and can't do the code work anymore
[00:37] <nixternal> so something tells me this is a stale spec with comments keeping the date on the bottom of the page recent
[00:42] <nixternal> tekteen: I can honestly say that Ubuntu is going to be following that specification. There is definitely no code activity, and if there is, it isn't located any place readily available for review, and there hasn't been one comment on the spec from any TB/Canonical members at all
[00:43] <nixternal> the spec was created in 2006, then 1 year, 7 months, and 2 weeks later, Scott Ritchie decided he would like to work on by making himself the drafter and having Jerome as the approver, with nobody as an assignee..that typically means, it isn't going anywhere fast
[00:44]  * Nightrose thinks nixternal missed a "not" in that first sentence ;-)
[00:44] <nixternal> Nightrose: good catch
[00:44] <tekteen> nixternal: ok
[00:44] <nixternal> Ubuntu is NOT going to be following that specification :)
[00:44] <crimsun> nixternal: err, surely you didn't mistake Scott for Dennis?
[00:44] <Nightrose> ;-)
[00:44] <nixternal> Implementation: Needs Infrastructure
[00:44] <nixternal> crimsun: I did
[00:44] <crimsun> Scott is considerably younger, at least in appearance at UDS-Boston, than Dennis.
[00:44] <nixternal> my buddy is Scott Richie
[00:44] <nixternal> but this Scott is Ritchie
[00:45] <nixternal> and I got excited with my funny bone :p
[00:45] <crimsun> we're talking a couple generations difference
[00:45] <nixternal> just a couple
[00:46] <nixternal> and here is the funny part...when I worked for AT&T, you better know who Dennis, Doug, and Ken are, otherwise you will fail the employee tests they always sneak in
[00:48] <crimsun> thankfully I don't know who any of 'em are.
[00:48] <crimsun> are/is*
[00:48] <nixternal> they are the 3 at&t employees who created unix
[00:49] <crimsun> what's unix?
[00:49] <dasKreech> hi hunger
[00:49] <nixternal> unix is the NT kernel
[00:49] <nixternal> now it is what controls the mouse in vista
[00:51] <crimsun> I knew you'd know all about vista.
[00:51] <crimsun> :=)
[00:51] <nixternal> hehe
[00:51] <nixternal> I am using it right now in order to help with writing the "Official Ubuntu Book"
[00:51] <ryanakca> hehe
[00:51] <nixternal> we are required to write it in Microsoft Word
[00:52] <nixternal> makes me dislike the book even more
[00:52] <ryanakca> lol...
[00:52] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: writing the kubuntu chapter?
[00:52] <nixternal> and the entire chapter is "LTSP" which isn't even a part of Edubuntu
[00:52]  * ryanakca wonders if any open source projects typeset their printed books with LaTeX
[00:52] <nixternal> I am writing/rewriting the Edubuntu chapter of all chapters
[00:52] <ryanakca> why?!?
[00:53] <dasKreech> nixternal: what? LTSP always gets installed with Edubuntu
[00:53] <nixternal> seeing as I created a big majority of their documentation a couple of years ago, I was "highly recommended" by mako
[00:53] <nixternal> dasKreech: not any more
[00:53] <nixternal> Edubuntu is going to be an add-on CD for Ubuntu
[00:53] <nixternal> LTSP will be a part of the Ubuntu Alternative CD
[00:54] <vorian> wazzup!
[00:54] <ryanakca> hey vorian
[00:54] <nixternal> wasabi vorian
[00:54] <vorian> howdy ryanakca, nixternal
[00:54] <vorian> congrats btw :)
[00:55] <nixternal> umm, me or ryanakca? and if so, for what?
[00:55] <ryanakca> nixternal: I don't know
[00:55] <vorian> sorry
[00:55] <vorian> congrats nixternal on your election
[00:55] <ryanakca> nixternal: I haven't done anything noteworthy lately :)
[00:55] <nixternal> ryanakca: heh, didn't know if you became president again
[00:55] <ryanakca> nixternal: lol
[00:55] <nixternal> ryanakca: like I have? all I do is upset people obviously
[00:55] <nixternal> vorian: ahh, thanks
[00:55] <ryanakca> oooh, contest closed 55 minutes
[00:55]  * ryanakca checks the mockups
[00:55] <vorian> It's been a crazy week
[00:56] <ryanakca> append ago to that minutes line
[00:56] <nixternal> heh
[00:56] <ryanakca> nixternal: you win, congratulations :D
[00:56] <nixternal> hhahahaha
[00:56] <nixternal> umm, no votes or what?
[00:56] <nixternal> plus, I think we need a real "artist" to work on a mockup
[00:57]  * dasKreech blames nixternal
[00:58] <ryanakca> nixternal: well... we haven't had any mockups in a week... since we last talked about it... the only mockup other than yours is a copy of the Ubuntu site in blue
[00:58] <nixternal> dasKreech: you don't have to blame me anymore, it just comes naturally now
[00:58] <ryanakca> ... which we were informed wasn't desired even before the beginning of the contest
[00:58] <ryanakca> nixternal: do you know any?
[00:58] <nixternal> heh
[00:58] <nixternal> k to the w to the w to the i to the i
[00:58] <ryanakca> lol
[00:58] <vorian> hehe
[00:59] <dasKreech> nixternal: I've started listening to Lupe Fiasco. He's really good
[01:00]  * ryanakca wonders if we should ping k^w^w^i^i to ask him for a mockup, and act as if he submitted it before the contest ending...
[01:00] <nixternal> lol
[01:01] <ryanakca> kwwii: ?
[01:01] <vorian> I packaged a nifty little ditty called Lemon POS.
[01:01] <vorian> its a point of sale frontend
[01:01] <ryanakca> kwwii: since you're the only real artist we know, if you wanted to submit a mockup or two for the website some time this week, we'll act as if you submitted it before the contest end :)
[01:01] <nixternal> you gotta love IP recording in wordpress
[01:02] <nixternal> when you get those "Anonymous" posts, it is easy to find them on IRC
[01:02] <ryanakca> lol
[01:02] <vorian> hehe
[01:02] <ryanakca>  /who i.p.ad.dress
[01:02] <ryanakca> ?
[01:03] <vorian> most of the anonymous posts were mine
[01:03]  * vorian hides
[01:03]  * ryanakca wonders how he could s/~ryan@d235-228-172.home1.cgocable.net/~ryan@ryanak.ca/
[01:03] <nixternal> no, but you can easily figure them out when their distro is also attached to their comment
[01:04] <ryanakca> nixternal: you have upload/sponsor/maintainer access to Debian?
[01:04] <nixternal> maintainer yes, upload depends, and sponsor no
[01:05] <nixternal> so, that means I am not a DD, in which you are looking for :)
[01:05] <ryanakca> any idler in here have sponsor access/perms / is a DD ?
[01:05] <ScottK2> nixternal: My debian/rules change worked on i386 for scribus.  I'll have a .dsc for you in a moment.
[01:05] <nixternal> thanks for the warning
[01:05] <nixternal> guess that means I need to reboot from vista into kubuntu :p
[01:05] <ryanakca> lol
[01:06] <nixternal> just when I was having fun doing a disk defrag
[01:06] <nixternal> ooh, I heard 'open source' on tv
[01:06]  * nixternal goes and see
[01:06] <nixternal> s
[01:06] <nixternal> EWW!
[01:06] <nixternal> OPEN SORES! yuck
[01:06] <ryanakca> hmm... one thing about Vista that I dislike is having to hit 'Alt' to see the apps menubar
[01:06] <nosrednaekim> lol!
[01:06] <ryanakca> lol
[01:07] <nixternal> that's how you see the menubar? I will be damn
[01:07] <nixternal> I thought it was the new thing to just keep clicking color icons that mean absolutely nothing until you find what you are looking for
[01:08] <ryanakca> hehe
[01:08] <nixternal> HOLY SMOKES MICROSOFT RIPPED OFF KONQI!
[01:08] <ScottK2> nixternal: http://www.kitterman.com/test/scribus_1.3.3.11.dfsg-1ubuntu2.dsc
[01:08] <ryanakca> whadda?!?
[01:08] <nixternal> who has Office 2007 on their machine?
[01:08] <nosrednaekim> eh?
[01:08] <ryanakca> My mom's does, why?
[01:08] <nixternal> go into an Office 2007 app and hit alt, you will see what happens
[01:09] <ryanakca> okies, /me runs up to check
[01:09] <nixternal> ScottK2: rebooting into kubuntu now
[01:10] <ryanakca> nixternal: alt, and then letter to select option?
[01:10] <nixternal> just tap alt
[01:10] <nixternal> you get those similar little squares with the letters in them like you do with Konqi when you tap the ctrl key
[01:10] <ryanakca> did, and then a letter to select the menubar's submenu showed up...
[01:10] <ryanakca> yeah
[01:11] <nixternal> that was never like that before
[01:11] <nosrednaekim> menubar--- submenu? what?
[01:11] <nixternal> well <0ffice 2007
[01:11] <nixternal> today was the first time I used 2007
[01:11] <nixternal> err, really used 2007
[01:11] <ryanakca> my mom swears by it...
[01:11] <ryanakca> sadly...
[01:11] <nixternal> she needs to be popped one, along with jjesse...ribbon lovers!
[01:11] <dasKreech> My mom swears at it
[01:11] <ryanakca> lol
[01:12] <dasKreech> !nixternal
[01:12] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[01:12] <ryanakca> oooh, free money?
[01:12] <nixternal> I do think that Vista > OS X
[01:12]  * ryanakca is saving up to buy a coffee grinder... Mazzer Mini ;)... and then I'm saving up for Uni...
[01:12] <mhb> much like 3 > 3i
[01:12] <nixternal> I have a brand new Mac Pro, and I haven't even booted it up in 2 weeks
[01:12] <nixternal> OS X is the most annoying OS ever
[01:13] <ryanakca> OS X... never used. Vista? I only use it when I have to fix my mom's computer.
[01:13] <mhb> say what?
[01:13] <mhb> it's pretty cool, IMHO.
[01:13] <nixternal> crack is cool, os x isn't
[01:13] <dasKreech> mhb: What if i=0 ?
[01:13] <vorian> bahaha
[01:13]  * ryanakca debates between doing some bzflag server admin work and C++
[01:13] <mhb> I mean it's still proprietary, but you can connect via ssh to your linux out-of-the-box
[01:13] <nixternal> when I click a RED X, I expect it to close out the app, not shrink it and bounce it at the bottom of the screen
[01:14] <vorian> hahaha
[01:14] <ryanakca> lol
[01:14] <vorian> mac os - liger
[01:14] <vorian> that's next, mark my words
[01:14] <mhb> nixternal: I could hear the Windows user on Linux
[01:14] <ryanakca> hmm... one of my favorite keyboard shortcuts has to be ctrl-alt-esc
[01:14] <mhb> nixternal: "when I double click the icon I expect it not to open twice!"
[01:14] <nixternal> mhb: no, hear this! and Vista and OS X stink because they don't have a bouncing icon to notify me that something is happening :p
[01:15] <ryanakca> ... except that that prehistoric skull & cross-bones really needs a make-over
[01:15] <nixternal> who uses icons anyways? :)
[01:15] <nosrednaekim> ryanakca: ha.... thought I recognized you :)
[01:15] <ryanakca> nosrednaekim: wadda?
[01:15] <nosrednaekim> ryanakca: bzFlag
[01:15] <ryanakca> lol
[01:16]  * ryanakca runs the bzflag servers on bzfmaps.net from port 6200 to 6300 ;)
[01:16] <mhb> nixternal: but I have never run Vista, I cannot compare.
[01:16] <mhb> nixternal: every OS has some cool stuff
[01:16] <nixternal> that it does
[01:16] <dasKreech> vorian: I was going for macOSX Cheetara
[01:16] <mhb> nixternal: for example the composite char input on OS X is awesome
[01:16] <nixternal> OS X has a bit more of a prestigious look to it honestly
[01:17] <vorian> ^5 dasKreech, that's a winner :)
[01:17] <nixternal> but usability is garbage
[01:17] <mhb> when you press say ", the cursor turns yellow and you see what accent you typed
[01:17] <mhb> " as in ö as in Böhm
[01:18] <mhb> hard to appreciate when you're named John Smith, I guess :o)
[01:18] <nixternal> or Rich Johnson :p
[01:19] <dasKreech> he is giving out money!!
[01:19]  * nixternal lost his money card today for real though
[01:19] <nixternal> so I can't give out anything
[01:19] <nixternal> not until next week at least :)
[01:19] <ryanakca> lol
[01:19] <mhb> nixternal: also try launching their "system preferences" and using the quick search
[01:20] <nixternal> their system preferences look like our system settings
[01:20] <ryanakca> mhb: I do wish we had that in KDE... the "o for ö, 'e for é, etc.
[01:20] <nixternal> or our system settings look like their system preferences
[01:20] <Jucato> the latter...
[01:20] <mhb> nixternal: that is one fancy effect, also they have the keywords worked out really well, so you can input "change the background" and it shows which module to click
[01:20] <ryanakca> mhb: I ended up creating my own keyboard layout... instead of having to relearn a whole new layout for french dvorak, I just added a pile of deadkeys to the english layout
[01:21]  * Jucato wonders why he butt in.. goes back to be.d...
[01:21] <mhb> ryanakca: well we do have keyboards that can combine those chars
[01:21] <mhb> ryanakca: like mine (Czech), can do the composite input, but it is not visible
[01:21] <ryanakca> mhb: like you have a keyboard with keys dedicated solely to 'é' or 'ö' or something?
[01:22] <mhb> ryanakca: nope
[01:22] <mhb> ryanakca: just have that " sign and standard o,u,a,e,i
[01:23] <ryanakca> mhb: yeah, well, thats what I did to the dvorak layout... alt-"-[aoeui], etc.
[01:24] <mhb> ah.
[01:24] <ryanakca> like, the Dvorak-fr layout ( http://www.algo.be/ergo/imprime/dvorak-fr.pdf ) looks nothing like the Standard Dvorak layout...
[01:24]  * ryanakca considers publishing his layout to planet or contributing it to X11
[01:25] <mhb> ryanakca: that is logical, because the layout is based on character frequency
[01:25] <ryanakca> not that X11 would take it ;)
[01:25] <nixternal> I could never in my life figure out how to do those characters...I always copied and pasted them, or did "Insert Symbol" :)
[01:25] <mhb> ryanakca: which is different in English and French
[01:25] <ryanakca> mhb: yeah, but then I'd have to use three layouts... qwerty at school since they wont let me use Dvorak, then Dvorak-en and Dvorak-fr at home.
[01:26] <ryanakca> Two is challenging enough... my qwerty skills plumetted now that I use Dvorak
[01:26] <dasKreech> mhb: can't we do that with descriptions?
[01:26] <ryanakca> nixternal: you use dvorak or qwerty?
[01:26] <nixternal> qwerty
[01:26] <nixternal> I have used it for almost 30 years, I can't even try something else
[01:27] <dasKreech> Yeah there was some dvorak hate at the release party :)
[01:27] <ScottK2> nixternal: Scribus building OK?
[01:27] <nixternal> and I am not into that "you can teach an old dog new tricks"
[01:27] <nixternal> ScottK2: 56%
[01:27] <ScottK2> Cool
[01:27] <nixternal> err, 54%
[01:28] <ryanakca> heh, 30 years, I guess its ingrained too deeply into you to change
[01:28]  * ScottK2 goes back to the movie with the kids.
[01:28]  * nixternal has the dog show on
[01:28] <dasKreech> old dogs?
[01:28] <nixternal> ya
[01:29] <dasKreech> doing new tricks?
[01:29] <nixternal> nope
[01:29] <nixternal> old dogs do old tricks
[01:29] <nixternal> sit, laydown, rollover, play dead
[01:29] <nixternal> oh wait, he is to old, so he isn't playing dead
[01:30] <nosrednaekim> haha
[01:30] <ryanakca> lol
[01:30] <mhb> la petite mort
[01:30] <mhb> that's what I should be doing right now
[01:31] <mhb> curse this emotional instability
[01:31]  * ryanakca cracks open Accelerated C++ and tries to stop procrastinating
[01:31] <ryanakca> mhb: lol
[01:31]  * ryanakca pulls out comfy feather bed and a feather pillow and pushes mhb into it
[01:32] <mhb> ryanakca: I'm in it, it's the emotional instability (also known as "I'm down") that keeps me awake
[01:32] <ryanakca> ah, bummer
[01:33] <nixternal> I have a dream!
[01:33] <nixternal> it is to create a groovy app from scratch
[01:33] <nosrednaekim> to do what?
[01:33] <nixternal> however I have a block! I have no idea what that app is :)
[01:34]  * Jucato refills nixternal's meds
[01:34] <nixternal> ya, I am totally out
[01:34] <nosrednaekim> I want a pictureflow kioslave!
[01:34] <nixternal> ran out this morning
[01:34] <ryanakca> hmm...
[01:34] <nixternal> that would be kool nosrednaekim
[01:34] <ryanakca> nixternal: you could finish writing/porting KCipher to C++/KDE4/Qt4 for me if you want :)
[01:35] <nixternal> I actually wrote a little python app that did picture flow of whatever images I told it to use
[01:35] <mhb> nosrednaekim: I want a systemsettings module that launches external apps!
[01:35] <nixternal> wth is KCipher?
[01:35] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: really? could I have the code?
[01:35] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: not right now, it is GPL vDeleted
[01:35] <nosrednaekim> ^_^
[01:35] <nixternal> it wasn't much of an app actually
[01:35] <nixternal> 50 lines of code maybe
[01:35] <nixternal> Python
[01:35] <ryanakca> nixternal: lol, its a little educational app... I'm trying to do something similar to Kalzium... Basically, it teaches people about historic ciphers...
[01:35] <nixternal> I was messing around with trying to learn Python
[01:36]  * dasKreech puts Jucato to bed
[01:36]  * Jucato goes to bed
[01:36] <nosrednaekim> yeah.... I wanted to build something to do that.... didn't really try very hard to figure it out though
[01:36] <ryanakca> select the cipher, input, and it outputs, I'm also looking at having a small dictionarry/encyclopedia plugin (thats the part similar to Kalzium) that gives a brief history of the cipher
[01:36] <nixternal> oh shoot, I didn't even see Jucato hiding amongst us slackers :)
[01:36] <ryanakca> night Jucato
[01:36]  * Jucato keeps a low profile
[01:36] <dasKreech> nixternal: gardenSkape
[01:36] <Jucato> ryanakca: it's actually 09:36... but I woke up very early soooo... :)
[01:36] <nixternal> why does that sound familiar dasKreech?
[01:37] <dasKreech> Jucato: don't gz your .profile that makes it useless
[01:37] <ryanakca> Jucato: AM?
[01:37] <Jucato> ryanakca: yeah
[01:37] <dasKreech> nixternal: cool app from skratch :)
[01:37] <ryanakca> lol, early being? 11 last night, after an hour sleep?
[01:37] <nixternal> but the name sounds very familiar
[01:37] <Jucato> woke up at 5:00 AM... too early for me :P
[01:37] <ryanakca> lol
[01:37] <dasKreech> nixternal: you made it I think
[01:38] <nixternal> was that you and I talking about that like 20 years ago?
[01:38] <dasKreech> yes
[01:38] <nixternal> ahh, OK..I couldn't remember
[01:38]  * ryanakca feels young... 20 years ago?!?
[01:38] <nixternal> took way to many drugs this week
[01:39] <dasKreech> ryanakca: the drugs and liker age him beyond us mortal
[01:39] <dasKreech> +a
[01:39] <dasKreech> -a+s
[01:39] <ryanakca> lol
[01:40] <nixternal> bbiaf, going to go eat some musical fruit
[01:40]  * ryanakca goes to get a glass of water and really gets to C++
[01:40]  * dasKreech goes back to jot notes on moinmoin and gardensKape
[01:51] <dasKreech> Jucato: still not sleeping?
[02:03] <ryanakca> nixternal: heh, shooting in Chicago? *keeps listening to the news on BBC Radio2*
[02:03] <nosrednaekim> don't talk to me about shootings...just watched runaway jury :)
[02:04] <ryanakca> any good?
[02:05] <nosrednaekim> great... it was anti-gun which I didn't like, but otherwise it was a great movie
[02:05]  * ryanakca wishes you could ssh into your 'Linux' godaddy hosting account...
[02:05] <nosrednaekim> thought godaddy was Windows?
[02:06] <ryanakca> supposedly they have Linux hosting too
[02:06] <ryanakca> some teacher / "professional signer" at school is releasing a CD towards the end of the month and asked me to setup a website for his CD... wordpress + mandigo should do it :)
[02:06] <nosrednaekim> oh
[02:06] <dasKreech> Just they get the large breasted woman to stand by the windows servers
[02:16] <nixternal> ScottK2: if [ -f /home/nixternal/work/ubuntu/pkg/scribus/tmp/scribus-1.3.3.11.dfsg/debian/scribus/usr/lib64 ] ; then
[02:16] <nixternal> /bin/sh: Syntax error: end of file unexpected
[02:26] <nixternal> adding \ after then and then adding ; \ after the statement fixes it, however back to the chmod issue
[03:05] <nixternal> ryanakca: you still around?
[03:05] <ryanakca> nixternal: yes
[03:05] <Hobbsee> nixternal: succeeded at world domination yet?
[03:06] <nixternal> Hobbsee: no, it seems my world is being pulled from underneath me...need to put on some cleats I guess to help stop that :)
[03:06] <nixternal> ryanakca: I have a gift for you to try out
[03:06] <Hobbsee> ugh
[03:06] <Hobbsee> nixternal: well, you have to suceed at MOTU first...
[03:06] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/~rj/flow.tar.bz2  <- download, untar it, and then just run ./flow
[03:06] <nixternal> tell me what you think
[03:07] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I need to keep my foot, hands, and ass out of my mouth first I guess
[03:07] <ryanakca> ... am I supposed to see anything?
[03:07] <nixternal> you should see something I would think
[03:08] <nixternal> are you on amd64?
[03:08] <ryanakca> i386 :)
[03:08] <ryanakca> the machine is a 64... I'm just running the 386 kernel
[03:08] <nixternal> it should work though
[03:08] <nixternal> ./flow
[03:09] <nixternal> what does it do?
[03:09] <ryanakca> oh, nevermind, the window opened minimized ;)
[03:09] <nixternal> oh
[03:09] <nixternal> is that what you were after?
[03:09] <nixternal> was that you that was even asking now?
[03:10] <ryanakca> nixternal: no, but thats fricken awesome :D
[03:10] <nixternal> I think nosred* wanted it actually
[03:10] <nixternal> the source is in google code already
[03:11]  * ryanakca nods
[03:11] <nixternal> so having it read a stream is all it needs added to it
[03:11] <ryanakca> wasn't someone blogging intensively about in on planet KDE last summer?
[03:11] <nixternal> the code is unbelievably small too
[03:11] <ryanakca> or two summers ago?
[03:11] <nixternal> just last week
[03:11] <nixternal> lol
[03:11] <ryanakca> lol
[03:11] <nixternal> that's how I remembered it
[03:11] <ryanakca> well, someone was blogging about it some summer ago :)
[03:11] <ryanakca> have a link to last weeks blog post?
[03:12] <ryanakca> My kde3 apps don't seem to like my KDE4 environment...
[03:12] <nixternal> http://ariya.blogspot.com/2008/02/to-blur-or-not-to-blur.html
[03:12] <ScottK2> nixternal: Urgh.  Thanks.  That doesn't fix the chmod issue?
[03:12] <nixternal> no it doesn't
[03:13] <nixternal> it still gives the same error on chmod saying it cannot access, no such file or directory
[03:13] <nixternal> and that I can't figure out...I have tried different things, but it still does it
[03:15] <ScottK2> Weird
[03:18] <blueyed> Do you also experience bug 188498?
[03:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188498 in kdebase "konqueror opens new window" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188498
[03:20] <dasKreech> hi hunger_t
[03:22] <nixternal> oh man, I found an even better cover flow
[03:22] <nixternal> python
[03:24]  * claydoh has a few extra moments on his hands, now that he doesn't have to go through all those clicky-clicks to set up his printer :)
[03:26] <dasKreech> Ha ha :)
[03:27] <ScottK2> nixternal: What do you think about debuilding scribus so that when it dies, you can see what the layout is?
[03:29] <nixternal> that is what I am doing
[03:29] <nixternal> the layout is the same, there is no lib/
[03:29] <nixternal> so maybe the test is failing?
[03:29] <nixternal> even though it shows it run through the test
[03:29] <nixternal> not run through, but prints out that section of the rules file to the screen
[03:30] <ryanakca> anybody know if utnubu has a channel?
[03:31] <ScottK2> ryanakca: Not any that's real active
[03:33] <ScottK2> nixternal: Maybe we need to make usr/lib first?
[03:34] <ryanakca> ScottK2: okies
[03:34] <nixternal> tried to create the directory, same thing
[03:34] <ScottK2> ryanakca: What are you trying to get sponsored?
[03:35] <ryanakca> basic256
[03:35] <nixternal> ahhhhhhhhh
[03:35] <ScottK2> nixternal: ????
[03:35] <nixternal> hrm
[03:35] <nixternal> thought I seen something
[03:35] <ScottK2> -e?
[03:35] <ryanakca> my biggest hurdle is everybody going "EEEW! BASIC! Why would we want basic in OUR repos?"...
[03:35] <nixternal> ahh
[03:35] <nixternal> -e works!
[03:35] <ScottK2> Sorry about that.
[03:35] <nixternal> lol
[03:35] <nixternal> I didn't even see that
[03:35] <ScottK2> The dir, of course, isn't a file.
[03:36] <ryanakca> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/b/basic256/basic256_0.9.2-1.dsc :)
[03:36] <nixternal> yup
[03:36] <ScottK2> ryanakca: Are you on #debian-mentors on OFTC?
[03:36] <ryanakca> yes
[03:37] <ScottK2> Did you send a mail to the mentors ML?
[03:37] <ryanakca> yes
[03:37]  * ryanakca is now being patient :)
[03:37] <ScottK2> How long ago?
[03:37]  * ryanakca points to the part about being patient
[03:37] <ScottK2> Yeah.
[03:37] <ScottK2> It's taken me a couple of days there, but I've always gotten stuff sponsored.
[03:37]  * ryanakca nods
[03:39] <ScottK2> nixternal: Since you've got the copy that is tested to work, would you please debdiff it for me.
[03:39] <nixternal> ya, double testing it from scratch really quick
[03:41] <ryanakca> what package has the debugging symbols for amarok?
[03:42]  * ryanakca is trying to run gdb against amarokapp, but all I'm getting are '(no debugging symbols found)'...
[03:45] <ScottK2> Great
[03:54] <ScottK2> nixternal: When you get it done, shoot it my way and I'll test it again on 32bit, just to make sure.
[03:55] <nixternal> no problem
[03:55]  * nixternal goes for an icecream bar while it goes
[04:18] <blueyed> ryanakca: amarok-dbgsym ?
[04:19] <blueyed> (from "deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com hardy main universe restricted multiverse" - there)
[04:19] <blueyed> 's a page on the wiki somewhere, too.
[05:07]  * ScottK2 waits for nixternal to show up on a dark windy corner with his debdiff.
[05:25] <dasKreech> hi Hobbsee
[05:25] <Hobbsee> heya dasKreech
[05:26] <dasKreech> how areyou ?
[05:26] <nixternal> heh
[05:26] <nixternal> argh
[05:29] <dasKreech> Ice cream headache?
[05:30] <nixternal> no, I wasn't paying attention and my dog unplugged my desktop
[05:32] <dasKreech> My dog hits the power button on the laptop when she wants attention
[05:33]  * Hobbsee i splaying with drupal
[05:33]  * Hobbsee is stunned at the amount of content there is
[05:33] <nixternal> if you are stunned with the amount of content, try joomla
[05:34] <nixternal> it will make your head exploid with unwanted difficulties
[05:34] <nixternal> but it is the superior platform
[05:35] <Hobbsee> it's not packaged, though :P
[05:35] <dasKreech> :-)
[05:35] <dasKreech> !info joomla hardy
[05:35] <nixternal> it is somewhere, because the .debs are used at dreamhost
[05:35] <ubotu> Package joomla does not exist in hardy
[05:35] <dasKreech> !info mambo hardy
[05:35] <ubotu> Package mambo does not exist in hardy
[05:35] <nixternal> !info mamba
[05:35] <nixternal> o
[05:35] <nixternal> ya
[05:35] <dasKreech> ok
[05:35] <ubotu> Package mamba does not exist in gutsy
[05:36] <dasKreech> !info seamonkey hardy
[05:36] <ubotu> seamonkey (source: seamonkey): The Seamonkey Internet Suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.7+nobinonly-0ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 25 kB, installed size 92 kB
[05:36] <dasKreech> hooray!!!!
[05:36] <dasKreech> It made it!
[05:36] <nixternal> !info nixternal
[05:36] <ubotu> Package nixternal does not exist in gutsy
[05:36] <dasKreech> pfft
[05:36] <dasKreech> thats an Exe everyone knows that
[05:37] <nixternal> .msi foo
[05:37] <ScottK2> nixternal: Did the dog get the desktop before or after scribus got done building?
[05:37] <nixternal> before
[05:37] <nixternal> 51% now :(
[05:38]  * ScottK2 searches for patience ...
[05:49] <ScottK2> Well I think the kids computer is finally switched over to Kubuntu Gutsy.
[05:49] <nixternal> w00t :)
[05:49] <ScottK2> Doing the last bit now.  A little chmod so they can't read each other's home directories.
[05:55] <ScottK2> Damn.  Out of chocolate.
[05:56] <nixternal> same here
[05:56] <Hobbsee> gasp
[05:56]  * Hobbsee still has chocolate, hidden away
[05:57] <ScottK2> Now that you mention it, I do too.  Back in a few.
[05:57] <ScottK2> Time to go celebrate the last of the Xandros machines gone forever.
[06:02] <ScottK2> So if my kid tells me they have no candy left, does that mean if I find some of theirs it's fair game?
[06:02] <dasKreech> I have M&M I don't know if that counts
[06:02] <ScottK2> If it's singular, not really
[06:03] <nixternal> ScottK2: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54575
[06:03] <nixternal> and it works
[06:06] <ScottK2> nixternal: Cool.  Thanks a bunch.
[06:06] <nixternal> no prob..sorry it took so long
[06:08] <ScottK2> nixternal: Would mkdir $(INSTALL_DIR)/usr/lib ; \ be better as [ -n /usr/lib ] mkdir $(INSTALL_DIR)/usr/lib ; \ ??
[06:08] <nixternal> hrmm, that would work as well I think
[06:09] <ScottK2> errr [ -n $(INSTALL_DIR)/usr/lib ] mkdir $(INSTALL_DIR)/usr/lib ; \
[06:09] <ScottK2> I'm just thinking if the build system ever changed to put stuff in both places...
[06:10] <ScottK2> nixternal: Of course I can't really test that.  Any chance you've got time to build it again?
[06:10] <nixternal> yup
[06:11] <ScottK2> Great.
[06:12] <ScottK2> nixternal: This version FTBFS in Debian too, so we can send them a patch.
[06:13] <nixternal> groovy
[06:13] <nixternal> build started
[06:47] <ScottK2> nixternal: Did this way leave behind an empty usr/lib64 we need to remove?
[06:47] <nixternal> damn
[06:47] <nixternal> let me see if I kept that
[06:47] <nixternal> I didn't
[06:48] <ScottK2> How close are you?
[06:48] <nixternal> I just finished building this one
[06:48] <nixternal> in pbuilder though
[06:48] <nixternal> hrmm
[06:48] <nixternal> I don't think we should use mv
[06:48] <dasKreech> ScottK2: How long have you been waiting on this?
[06:48] <ScottK2> Why not?
[06:49] <nixternal> cp -r maybe, because mv doesn't cause anything to get installed into /usr/lib64
[06:49] <ScottK2> Waiting on getting this fixed?
[06:49] <nixternal> it installs everything into /usr/lib/ now
[06:49] <ScottK2> Right, but don't want anything in /usr/lib64.
[06:49] <nixternal> well scribus currently installs to /usr/lib64/ and /usr/lib/
[06:49] <nixternal> the previous version that is
[06:50] <nixternal> if we want it going to just /usr/lib/, then all that needs to be done is removing /usr/lib64/ blank directory
[06:51] <ScottK2> nixternal: In http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10858617/scribus_1.3.3.10.dfsg~svn20071109-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb I only see usr/lib
[06:51] <nixternal> hrmm
[06:51] <nixternal> then the copy happens after the install?
[06:51] <ScottK2> Dunno
[06:52]  * ScottK2 doesn't own any amd64 gear so knows zippo about it.
[06:52] <nixternal> well, I have all of the scribus libs in both /usr/lib64 and /usr/lib
[06:52] <ScottK2> dasKreech: I've been doing other stuff too.  I'm not just sitting here waiting for nixternal to compile stuff for me.
[06:52] <nixternal> the same exact files with the current version
[06:52] <ScottK2> K.  Look at the .deb though.
[06:53] <dasKreech> ScottK2: oh good caue he got ice cream
[06:55] <ScottK2> dasKreech: Since this started I've picked up one kid from the mall, had dinner, watched a movie with the kids, put a 4 year old to bed, finished upgrading the kids computer to kubuntu, and now I'm cleaning the kitchen.
[06:55] <dasKreech> I had dinner
[06:55] <dasKreech> but it was a lot of dinner
[06:55] <ScottK2> I take it you don't have kids?
[06:56] <dasKreech> Not in that sense
[06:56] <ScottK2> Oh?  What sense?
[06:58] <nixternal> I am building the previous version and this new version to see what the directory structure looks like
[06:58] <nixternal> it is obviously CMake though that is causing our headache right now
[06:59] <ScottK2> Yeah
[06:59] <ScottK2> The amd64 FTBFS is already reported in Debian with no solution, so we get to mke it easy for them.
[07:20] <ScottK2> nixternal: You getting close?
[07:41] <nixternal> checking now
[07:41] <nixternal> and the answer is yes
[07:42] <ScottK2> OK.  Please pastebing me the right answer.
[07:42] <nixternal> the old package creates 'bin, lib, lib64, and share' in debian/scribus
[07:42] <nixternal> the new package creates 'bin, lib, and share' in debian/scribus
[07:43] <ScottK2> When you say old, which do you mean?
[07:43] <nixternal> so, do we follow the old package and provide both lib/ and lib64/?
[07:43] <nixternal> 1.3.3.10.dfsg~svn20071109
[07:43] <ScottK2> I don't see the sense in it.
[07:44] <nixternal> I don't totally follow that whole lib/ and lib64/ thing..I know there have some changes recently on where certain lib files are being installed
[07:44] <ScottK2> OK.  Well you wanna look into the right amd64 answer a bit?  I'm clueless on 64bit.
[07:45] <ScottK2> It's not critical if we upload this in the next day or so...
[07:45] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54576
[07:45] <nixternal> that works
[07:45] <ScottK2> K.  Maybe I just settle for "works" and move on.
[07:46] <nixternal> I will install the new and see if anything sticks out
[07:46] <ScottK2> OK
[07:46] <nixternal> hey, if we keep this way, make sure to have /usr/lib64 removed before the .deb is created
[07:47] <nixternal> or just add an rm -rf to that if statement
[07:48] <ScottK2> K
[07:48] <nixternal> interesting
[07:48] <nixternal> it is still installing to both lib and lib64
[07:49] <nixternal> but if you look at the .deb, the /usr/lib64/ directory is empty, nothing is installed to it
[07:49] <nixternal> there is a rogue postinst or something
[07:50] <nixternal> or...
[07:50] <ScottK2> nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54577/
[07:50] <nixternal> maybe what I am witnessing is something done automagically by the system now? I am totally freakin' clueless
[07:50] <ScottK2> I'm going with that
[07:50] <nixternal> ya, that will work
[07:50] <nixternal> this is totally odd
[07:51] <nixternal> just so you know, scribus isn't installing with an icon
[07:51] <nixternal> but it seems fine
[07:52] <nixternal> it is installing the icon though to /usr/share/pixmaps as it should
[07:53] <ScottK2> nixternal: I fixed this all I plan to now.  Your turn.
[07:54] <nixternal> one sec
[07:54] <nixternal> hey, patch the .desktop file in the new scribus
[07:54] <nixternal> Icon=scribus instead of Icon=scribusicon
[07:54] <nixternal> that fixes it
[07:55] <ScottK2> nixternal: I GOTTA get to bed.  Here you go http://www.kitterman.com/test/scribus_1.3.3.11.dfsg-1ubuntu2.dsc
[07:55] <nixternal> I need to crash myself
[07:55] <ScottK2> nixternal: Add your stuff to that
[07:55] <nixternal> I will take a look at it in the morning, or later today if you don't get it before me
[07:55] <ScottK2> You're an hour behind me.  OK
[07:56] <nixternal> tomorow is super bowl day, so I know what I am doing for the 2nd half of today :)
[07:56] <nixternal> watching commercials!
[07:56] <ScottK2> Fair enough.  Thanks for all your help.
[07:56] <nixternal> no problem
[07:56] <nixternal> glad I could be of some assistance
[07:58] <ScottK2> OK.  Sent the patch to Debian and kicked off one more test build.  Off to bed.
[07:58] <ScottK2> Good night all.
[07:59] <nixternal> g'nite
[08:11] <dasKreech> hi hunger
[08:13] <hunger> dasKreech: good morning!
[08:14] <dasKreech> how are you?
[08:16] <hunger> dasKreech: fine.
[08:19] <dasKreech> groovy
[14:13] <ScottK2> nixternal: Have a look at Bug #188516 - It seems the scribus upstream is on LP and they read Ubuntu bugs.
[14:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188516 in scribus "1.3.3.11.dfsg-1ubuntu1 FTBFS on AMD64" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188516
[14:13] <ScottK2> They had a much simpler suggestion.
[14:15] <ScottK2> They also wrote more bugs ....
[15:56] <mi> can i install kde3 in gutsy with sudo apt-get install kde4....try in hardy and kde4 install great with this?
[15:56] <mi> sorry kde4 i mean
[15:56] <mhb> mi: if you enable the KDE4 PPA, then you can
[15:56] <mi> ok
[15:56] <mhb> http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.php
[15:56] <mi> tq
[15:57] <mhb> and please use other channels for support questions
[15:57] <mhb> next time
[15:57] <jpatrick> @kde4 > mi
[15:57] <mi> in hardy u don't need this repo
[15:57] <mhb> #kubuntu or #kubuntu-kde4
[15:57] <mhb> no
[15:57] <mi> mhb: tq
[16:22] <jpatrick> tq?
[16:24] <Riddell> "thank q"
[16:25] <jpatrick> tq => te quiero == I love you (in spanish)
[16:25] <Riddell> aww, sweet
[16:25] <jpatrick> mhb: you got another fan :o)
[16:28] <mhb> jpatrick: wow, a first fan of mine
[17:40] <ScottK2> nixternal: Around?
[17:53] <nixternal> ScottK2: yo yo
[17:55] <nixternal> ScottK2: ya, that is much much easier :)
[17:55] <nixternal> Scribus devs rule for that one
[17:55] <Riddell> I so want to write a blog called "Alternatives to Troy"
[17:55] <nixternal> did he write another one?
[17:55] <nixternal> lol
[17:55] <Riddell> no, I'm just working on my response
[17:55] <Riddell> nixternal: infact what did you think of that url I sent you?
[17:55] <nixternal> ahh, carefully crafted I am sure
[17:56] <nixternal> ooh, looking now
[17:57] <Riddell> "There's lots of disenfranchised KDE marketing readers who are fed up of his hurtful rants..."
[18:00] <nixternal> that is great! absolutely brilliant
[18:01] <nixternal> one typo, Venzalia I am guessing should be Venezuela or something like that..hell I can't even type it
[18:02] <nixternal> I really like the "we use KDE to the fullest", no firefox here..that is why I love this place :)
[18:03] <ScottK2> I don't think his post had anything to do with Kubuntu as a distro.  I think it was about Canonical.  I'm not sure replies are really going to help.  OTOH, most any reply from a Canoncial employee with improve on Jono's.
[18:05] <Riddell> actually one of the few specific reasons I've got out of him was because it didn't work with some of his hardware
[18:05] <Riddell> ScottK2: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3256
[18:05]  * ScottK2 lloks
[18:05] <ScottK2> looks even
[18:06] <Nightrose> good one Riddell
[18:07] <Riddell> ScottK2: I had to add the word "marketing" to that first sentence because jono was feeling hurt that I was too critical of him.  bless
[18:08] <nixternal> lol
[18:08] <nixternal> let it out Riddell!
[18:10] <nixternal> one thing that is starting to bother me with this LTS stuff, is some people think we are imcompetent and couldn't handle bug control for KDE 3
[18:11]  * nixternal looks up the definition of twonkle
[18:11] <ScottK2> If Jono doesn't want to feel hurt, he ouht to think before he blogs
[18:11] <ScottK2> Riddell: Good positive post.
[18:12] <Riddell> nixternal: pst, there isn't one, it's the perfect insult
[18:13] <nixternal> lovely, did you patent it yet? :p
[18:13] <Riddell> "a method for insulting people without causing offence"
[18:13] <ScottK2> nixternal: I should have a new scribus package in ~30 min.
[18:14] <ScottK2> Gotta go read a bed time story before nap time.
[18:17] <nixternal> ScottK2: you are showing your age if you are taking naps early in the afternoon :p
[18:17] <nixternal> unless of course you are preparing for a superbowl party :)
[18:19] <toma> "Oh and the 6 monthly release schedule we've switching to, great stuff but why are people embarrassed about where that idea came from?"++
[18:19] <toma> Riddell: i never understood that part either
[18:20] <toma> nice article
[18:20] <Riddell> thank
[18:20] <Riddell> thanks
[18:27] <mhb> Riddell: is there a reason why your blog is not up on dot.kde.org?
[18:28] <Riddell> because dot is a news site not a dot site
[18:28] <Riddell> because dot is a news site not a blog site
[18:28] <nixternal> heh
[18:28] <mhb> Riddell: well they have this side bar called planet developer
[18:28] <mhb> Riddell: which is what I mean
[18:29] <Riddell> oh that doesn't update very often
[18:29] <nixternal> mhb: it will aggregate there eventually
[18:29] <mhb> ah, cool.
[18:29] <Riddell> < an hour I think
[18:29] <mhb> no problem then.
[18:29] <mhb> nice post.
[18:30] <nixternal> "We are a pure KDE distro" <- one of my favorite things about Kubuntu
[18:30] <mhb> perhaps a bit too much poking into what "other distros" do
[18:30] <nixternal> although not 100% true, because of OpenOffice.org and not KOffice
[18:31] <nixternal> but hopefully that will all change with KOffice 2
[18:31] <Riddell> yes that aspect might sound a bit critical, I don't mean to be critical of other distros since they have good reasons for how they work, just that we do our way and I think that helps KDE the most
[18:31] <Riddell> nixternal: yep, although I doubt koffice 2 will be ready for hardy
[18:31] <Riddell> but hardy+1 could be interesting
[18:32] <nixternal> ya, that was what I was thinking
[18:32] <nixternal> the only distro I know of that has KOffice and not OpenOffice, and I haven't been following it to closely of late, is Foresight..but there are only 2 developers working on that release currently
[18:33] <nixternal> but they have firefox too..eww :)
[18:33] <ScottK2> nixternal: Not me, the 4 year old.
[18:33] <nixternal> nice try :p
[18:34] <nixternal> a couple of more months ScottK2 and I should be out in your neck of the woods..so find us a happy hacking spot :)
[18:34] <nixternal> crimsun: you are welcome to visit as well, just as long as ScottK2 says it is OK :p
[18:35] <ScottK2> Is MS Office file format compatiblity in KOffice 2 going to be comparable to OOO's?
[18:35] <nixternal> of course I am going to attempt to build a package that takes more than 4 hours to build
[18:35] <ScottK2> For me that's probably the most critical feature.
[18:35] <nixternal> well, that depends...is MS going to be compatible with ODF
[18:36] <nixternal> last I heard, they were thinking about it
[18:36] <crimsun> nixternal: there are lots of hacking spots in the area
[18:37] <nixternal> if MS supports ODF then that will be great, but don't expect KOffice to support MS's stuff..I think they made a clear stance on that not to long ago
[18:37] <ScottK2> I'm talking about the legacy formats, not the XML thingy
[18:37] <nixternal> that I don't know about
[18:38] <ScottK2> All my customers are on Office 2000/XP/2003 so it's pretty critical for me.
[18:39] <Riddell> it'll be much the same as currently
[18:39] <smarter> IIRC, they said that they will use the openoffice parser for the mso docs
[18:41] <nixternal> interesting, KOffice 2 you can save as a "Word" document..don't know the versioning though
[18:41]  * nixternal tries something
[18:42] <nixternal> well, trying to open a .doc file crashes KOffice 2 :)
[18:43] <ScottK2> I'll be stuck on ooo for about the next 10 years then.
[18:45] <nixternal> OK, and saving as .doc doesn't work just yet
[18:46] <smarter> is there something that work with KOffice2? :P
[18:46] <nixternal> well I will be damnged...KOffice 1.x just opened a .doc file with no problem, wrote to it, saved it, and it works fine in MS Office 2007
[18:46] <nixternal> s/damnged/damned
[18:47] <nixternal> why was I thinking that KOffice couldn't do that?
[18:47] <_StefanS_> Riddell: hey did you get my message on kwin-style-crystal+
[18:51] <ScottK2> nixternal: It's not that it can't, but that the compatibility level is much lower.
[18:52] <nixternal> I thought that it couldn't to be honest
[18:52] <nixternal> heck, a lower compatibility level is more than I gave it
[18:52] <nixternal> well, for legacy MS Office, isn't 2003 the legacy now as they dropped support for everything < 2003?
[18:54] <ScottK2> For me most of my customers have 2000.  I don't care what they say in Redmond.
[18:56] <nixternal> maybe it is 2000 then
[18:56] <nixternal> I can't remember...I seen it recently on tv I think
[18:56] <nixternal> hiya jjesse
[18:56] <jjesse> hello nixternal
[18:56] <nixternal> thanks for telling me to buy the book for the screenies you turkey
[18:57] <nixternal> but I got a better idea!
[18:57] <jjesse> :)
[18:57] <nixternal> I will take my lappy to the book store, grab a latte and the book, and get to work :p
[18:57] <jjesse> i thought that was a funny idea
[18:57] <jjesse> found my wedding ring which i thought i lsot shoveling snow 3 weeks ago
[18:57] <jjesse> found it oustide this mornning while iwas walking the dog
[18:57] <nixternal> ya, all married men use the "I lost it while shoveling" excuse
[18:58] <nixternal> while living in San Diego I even tried it
[18:58] <nixternal> to bad we didn't have to shovel there :p
[18:58] <jjesse> my wife saw it go flying
[18:58] <jjesse> brb heading out side w/ dog :)
[19:00] <Riddell> _StefanS_: "Subject: kwin-style-crystal: patch to disable shadow on inactive windows" I'll try and get to that shortly
[19:02] <nixternal> Riddell: you should incorporate your backup app into konqi for the bookmarks...would be great if we had something like Foxmarks or the Google Sync stuff
[19:04] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yep. thats the one .. i know you're busy, sorry for bothering you like this
[19:05] <nixternal> Riddell: your last bullet in your post is so strong...I mean really really strong, almost marketer like :)  is there a little marketer Riddell we don't know about? :D
[19:06] <jjesse> back
[19:09] <Riddell> _StefanS_: oh keep bothering me, it can be the only way to have it not drop off my vision
[19:10] <Riddell> nixternal: that backup tool is just a mockup application, it's unlikely to work for anyone who doesn't know it's insides.  but I believe others are working on solving the problem properly (in kconfig)
[19:10] <nixternal> groovy
[19:11] <Riddell> nixternal: who do you think has done most of the Dot articles for the last three years?
[19:11] <nixternal> you
[19:11] <nixternal> Riddell: that is pretty much hands down
[19:11] <Riddell> /the/ Jonathan Riddell :)
[19:11] <nixternal> how do I know this? because I went back in time looking at old posts to get an idea on how to work mine out, and your name was there more than anyone elses
[19:11] <nixternal> hahaha
[19:11] <toma> *cough*
[19:12] <nixternal> I think all of the "Quick Posts", well at least a solid 95% or more as well
[19:12]  * Riddell hands toma a tissue
[19:12] <nixternal> hehehehe
[19:12] <toma> ;-) Just kidding, you are doing a great job there
[19:13] <toma> s/there/everywhere/
[19:13] <nixternal> I would love to try and do the same, but everytime I wake up, Riddell has done all of the Dot work already :)
[19:13] <Riddell> hang on, got to medicate a parrot
[19:14] <toma> is there a little doktor inside Riddell too ?
[19:14] <ScottK2> Wear gloves ...
[19:16] <ScottK2> nixternal: You ready to build scribus again?
[19:16]  * nixternal fires up the desktop
[19:17] <nixternal> hahahhaha
[19:17] <nixternal> gotta medicate a parrot
[19:17] <ScottK2> nixternal: http://www.kitterman.com/test/scribus_1.3.3.11.dfsg-1ubuntu2.dsc
[19:18] <ScottK2> Turns out there was even a bug on the icon thing.
[19:19] <jjesse> is there any way to specify the console session in krdc when connecting to a windows server box?
[19:19] <Nightrose> nixternal: haha if you want I will save our next dot story for you ;-) (there will be ne tomorrow probably)
[19:19] <Nightrose> *one
[19:19] <jjesse> in windows i do mstc /console to specify the console session
[19:20] <nixternal> woohoo, sounds good Nightrose :)
[19:20] <Nightrose> ;-)
[19:20] <Nightrose> will see what I can do
[19:20] <ScottK2> nixternal: You got that pbuilder cranking yet?
[19:20] <nixternal> just dgot it :)
[19:20] <Riddell> toma: an occational nurse (my girlfriend is a vet)
[19:21] <ScottK2> Great
[19:21] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ping+
[19:21] <toma> Riddell: ah, cool, ask her how to get rid of mice
[19:21] <nixternal> and we are off to the buildds
[19:21] <Riddell> toma: her job is to keep the mice alive
[19:21] <toma> LOL
[19:22] <ScottK2> I have a cousin who got a Parrot in his 20's thinking it'd be cool.  He's in his 60's now and still has the Parrot.  Parrot's are a bit of a commitment.
[19:22] <nixternal> that they are
[19:23] <nixternal> they live forever, which my buddy found out
[19:23] <nixternal> when I was about 6, we got a parrot, but it got to the point where my parents got annoyed with it, so we gave it to my buddy, 25 years later the parrot looks and acts the same
[19:26] <nixternal> OK, this amd64 box is going to cause me to go ballistic
[19:26] <nixternal> it is starting out the day with gcc segfaults again
[19:26] <nixternal> it is like it has to warm up first before you can start hammering on it :)
[19:27] <jjesse>  /join #ubuntu-server
[19:27] <jjesse> do
[19:27] <jjesse> doh
[19:27] <ScottK2> Riddell: Would you be up for doing a test build (amd64) for scribus since nixternal's machine isn't under control?
[19:28] <nixternal> it is back up and running ScottK2
[19:28] <nixternal> I have to slap it like an old jukebox
[19:28] <nixternal> :0
[19:28] <nixternal> err, :)
[19:28] <ScottK2> OK.  Thanks.  Nevermind Riddell.
[19:28] <Riddell> ScottK2: preferably not but I can happily give you ssh access to do it yourself
[19:28] <nixternal> it is just scribus too that does this
[19:29] <Riddell> oh toma, is anyone down to do a dot article for that kdepim meeting?
[19:29] <toma> i heard them talk about it, but that was in german, so i did not catch the details
[19:30] <toma> maybe cornelius, not sure
[19:39] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ping :)
[19:41] <Riddell> _StefanS_: it's a weekend, he's probably not around
[19:42] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ah ok, its just because we've got the okay to use that CC licensed wallpaper for hardy..
[19:42] <_StefanS_> Riddell: http://djmattricks.deviantart.com/art/Aquapattern-46516380
[19:42] <_StefanS_> Riddell: well if people like it
[19:43] <mhb> isn't it too light?
[19:43]  * mhb checks it out
[19:43] <_StefanS_> mhb: well actually we could adjust it slightly
[19:43] <nixternal> dunno about it honestly..but ya maybe with some adjustments it might look good
[19:44] <nixternal> I really like the one we got now, but I guess some people don't
[19:44] <nixternal> I am actually using it in KDE 4 too
[19:44] <_StefanS_> it actually looks nice, if you set it as wallpaper
[19:46] <Riddell> _StefanS_: I like it but I think it should be darker (especially if it's used with kde 4 too)
[19:46] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yes, I agree
[19:47] <_StefanS_> Riddell: but I think it has a nice freshness to it and all, but lets see what kwii can do about it
[19:48] <mhb> IMVHO the colours are a bit XPish
[19:48] <mhb> the colour scheme reminds me of Luna
[19:48] <mhb> I very much like the colours on the Vladstudio wallpapers, those dark blue tones are really good-looking here
[19:48] <_StefanS_> Riddell: he promised to make some new buttons aswell based on edgy, so with the patch in kwin-crystal i think it will look nice
[19:50] <_StefanS_> mhb: well, if the image got adjusted it might be okay
[19:50] <_StefanS_> mhb: got some links on those vladstudio wallpapers you like?
[19:50] <Riddell> _StefanS_: do we have it in a large enough size?
[19:51] <_StefanS_> Riddell: 1900x1440
[19:51] <Riddell> sounds big
[19:51] <_StefanS_> Riddell: a tad bit low, but maybe he can make some in the size we want ( I can ask him)
[19:51] <_StefanS_> it is :) haven't you got 1920x1200 on that new r61 ?
[19:52] <_StefanS_> or is it on the r60p ?
[19:52] <mhb> ttp://pinheiro-kde.blogspot.com/2007/11/introducing-first-official-oxygen.html
[19:53] <mhb> this one has really nice colors.
[19:54] <_StefanS_> mhb: yes, but then we're back at this dull blue kinda thing.. I think it would cool to have something lighter
[19:55] <mhb> dull blue?
[19:55] <_StefanS_> mhb: well i think the colors are depressing in that wallpaper :)
[19:56] <mhb> I find them "futuristic"
[19:56] <mhb> :-)
[19:56] <Riddell> _StefanS_: jings no
[19:56] <_StefanS_> Riddell: jings what? :)
[19:56] <mhb> the resolution maybe
[19:57] <mhb> I've got 1280x800 but my blackbook is a tad smaller.
[19:57] <_StefanS_> ah
[19:57] <_StefanS_> mhb: probably a 14"?
[19:58] <ScottK2> nixternal: Mine built.  How's your's looking?
[19:58] <nixternal> funny you should ask
[19:58] <nixternal> it segfaulted in pbuilder this time
[19:58] <nixternal> restarting it
[19:58] <nixternal> not even a minute before you asked
[19:58] <nixternal> but it is segfaulting in different areas
[19:58] <nixternal> it isn't always in the same file or location
[19:59] <ScottK2> Grumble....
[19:59] <nixternal> holy shite
[19:59] <nixternal> it did it again
[20:00] <nixternal> this time at 36%
[20:13] <_StefanS_> mhb, Riddell: it could look something like this: http://www.enhance-it.dk/Aquapattern_by_DJMattRicks2.png
[20:16] <_StefanS_> Riddell: could we add kolourpaint-kde4 to the kubuntu-desktop-kde4 metapackage aswell? Its very nice app, and useful for small image edits
[20:16] <_StefanS_> Riddell: thats on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
[20:17] <Riddell> _StefanS_: I'd rather add krita-kde4
[20:18] <_StefanS_> Riddell: well isn't that hard to fit on a cdrom ?
[20:19] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I mean together with all the other stuff that needs to be there
[20:20] <Riddell> _StefanS_: no idea, we don't know how large a KDE 4 CD will be
[20:20] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ok then, we can always decide that later
[20:20] <jpatrick> _StefanS_: without OpenOffice, hell no
[20:21] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: err, what ? :)
[20:21]  * ScottK2 taps his fingers while nixternal fiddles .... (how's it going)?
[20:21]  * dasKreech chuckles
[20:22] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: I thought we were going to ship koffice2, but maybe its not too mature yet
[20:22] <dasKreech> _StefanS_: define ship
[20:23] <jpatrick> _StefanS_: I hope so too, but without OpenOffice = lots more space no?
[20:23] <nixternal> stupid computer locked up...wth is up with our amd64 stuff?
[20:23] <nixternal> this is a fresh install, so nothing goofy has been done
[20:23] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: ah yes OOo is quite big
[20:23] <dasKreech> Can I turn off XDG ?
[20:23] <_StefanS_> dasKreech: as put it on the kde4 cd
[20:23] <smarter> nixternal: you may have hardware problems
[20:23] <smarter> nixternal: check your ram
[20:24] <ScottK2> nixternal: I'd be tempted to blame hardware (maybe cooling).
[20:24] <nixternal> isn't hardware problems, as there are 4 other os's that work flawlessly
[20:24] <_StefanS_> Riddell: is there any other todo's other than the stuff on the wiki?
[20:24] <nixternal> ScottK2: 38c while compiling...brand new zalman 9500 heatsink in the system
[20:24] <_StefanS_> nixternal: what are you doing when it crashes? compiling stuff?
[20:24] <dasKreech> _StefanS_: ah Right. have they shipped an alpha yet?
[20:24] <nixternal> _StefanS_: yes
[20:25] <_StefanS_> dasKreech: hmm well maybe not..
[20:25] <_StefanS_> nixternal: overclocked?
[20:25] <dasKreech> I didn't think they had
[20:25] <nixternal> nope
[20:25] <ScottK2> Anyone else have an amd64?  Otherwise I'll take R!ddell up on his ssh offer.
[20:25] <smarter> mmh, the /usr/bin/*-kde4 files have disappeared after my gutsy->hardy upgrade
[20:26] <nixternal> ScottK2: I have another one, but it is building opensg
[20:26] <dasKreech> !info opensg
[20:26] <ubotu> Package opensg does not exist in gutsy
[20:26] <nixternal> should have 2.5 hours of building left according to the 4 hour build warning I was given :)
[20:26] <_StefanS_> ScottK2:  I have a quad running amd64
[20:26] <ScottK2> _StefanS_: Have you got a Hardy pbuilder or equivalent?
[20:27] <smarter> for those running hardy, do you still have the /usr/bin/*-kde4 wrappers?
[20:27] <_StefanS_> ScottK2: nope its not installed, you would have to do that yourself, so maybe Riddell offer is more straightforward anyways
[20:27] <ScottK2> OK.
[20:27] <_StefanS_> smarter: only for klipper it seems
[20:28] <_StefanS_> smarter: sorry khelpcenter
[20:28] <smarter> weird
[20:28] <dasKreech> how many ppas do we have available to us?
[20:28] <ScottK2> nixternal: I don't think this is a huge rush.  Would you mind firing of scribus on the other one once opensg is done?
[20:28] <smarter> Is that a known issue?
[20:29] <nixternal> ScottK2: sure
[20:29] <ScottK2> K.
[20:29] <_StefanS_> smarter: donno, but i can still launch kwrite in its kde4 version
[20:30] <smarter> looks like nobody's testing hardy :}
[20:30] <_StefanS_> smarter: cant you use kde4?
[20:31] <_StefanS_> smarter: maybe the wrapper scripts were changed in a recent update
[20:31] <_StefanS_> smarter: because it still works here
[20:32] <_StefanS_> Riddell: any plans to use kde 4.0.1 for hardy?
[20:32] <_StefanS_> Riddell: there's some really nice bugfixes/features the went in
[20:32] <smarter> _StefanS_: I can, but I have to manually export LD_LIBRARY_PATH, PATH and stuff
[20:33] <smarter> _StefanS_: for gutsy, we upgraded to kde 3.5.8 one week before gutsy release
[20:33] <smarter> _StefanS_: so I think we have plenty of times for kde 4.0.x releases :)
[20:34] <mhb> laugh joke and good-bye for tonight
[20:34] <_StefanS_> smarter: I dont need export anything.. i can launch /usr/lib/kde4/bin/ark just like that
[20:34] <_StefanS_> smarter: would be really nice to have that 4.0.1
[20:34] <smarter> _StefanS_: if you do that, it will use your ~/.kde
[20:35] <_StefanS_> smarter: and?
[20:35] <smarter> mixing kde3 and kde4 setting is not a good idea imho
[20:35] <_StefanS_> i dont understand
[20:35] <smarter> *settings
[20:36] <dasKreech> _StefanS_: If we can we will ship with 4.0.3 :)
[20:36] <_StefanS_> dasKreech: hehe sounds good
[20:37] <_StefanS_> dasKreech: who was packaging kde4 for us.. ?
[20:37] <_StefanS_> dasKreech: cant remember his nick
[20:37] <dasKreech> the same people who always pacakge it. us
[20:38] <_StefanS_> dasKreech: I know, but someone make the packages just after Riddell stopped on the betas
[20:39] <dasKreech> ah I wasn't around for that I just know they are on a PPA
[20:39] <_StefanS_> yes, oh well. Not that important anyways
[20:41] <_StefanS_> oh gotta sleep..
[20:41] <_StefanS_> night fellas
[20:42] <dasKreech> night
[21:09] <Riddell> aww, more goodness from seele
[21:09]  * seele hugs Riddell 
[21:11]  * dasKreech grins
[21:11] <tekteen> Riddell: I finally got the book
[21:11] <Riddell> tekteen: which book?
[21:12] <tekteen> Rapid Gui Programing
[21:12] <tekteen> with PyQT
[21:12] <Riddell> ah, the pyqt one
[21:13] <Riddell> let us know if you get stuck
[21:13] <tekteen> I will
[21:14] <tekteen> thanks
[21:28] <nixternal> ScottK2: builds fine
[21:28] <ScottK2> nixternal: Cool.  Does the icon work?
[21:28]  * nixternal looks
[21:30] <nixternal> yes the icon works
[21:31] <ScottK2> nixternal: Cool
[21:31] <nixternal> upload and call it fixed hoss :)
[21:34] <ScottK2> Yeah.
[21:34] <Mez> Tm_T, ping
[21:34] <ScottK2> Riddell: Would you please sponsor my debdiff in Bug #188516.  nixternal has tested it on amd64.
[21:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188516 in scribus "1.3.3.11.dfsg-1ubuntu1 FTBFS on AMD64" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188516
[21:57] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Maybe you would have a look at Bug #188516, since Riddell isn't answering.
[21:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188516 in scribus "1.3.3.11.dfsg-1ubuntu1 FTBFS on AMD64" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188516
[22:02] <Riddell> hi sc	
[22:02] <Riddell> hi ScottK2
[22:02] <Riddell> ScottK2: how come this didn't affect debian?
[22:18] <nixternal> jcastro: fighting that bug ey?
[22:19] <nixternal> I feel ya brother...I did this whole week...the flu and cold symptoms are gone, but today I have a sore throat, and my glands are swolen and hurt bad
[22:19] <jcastro> nixternal: yeah, I think it's hit everyone
[22:19]  * seele coughs and holds in a bad joke
[22:20] <crimsun> even I was under the weather for a day.
[22:20] <jcastro> nixternal: I tried all sorts of pills and fluids, but apparently this vaporizer/vaporsteam is the way to go
[22:20] <crimsun> I took a sick day and did Ubuntu stuff :P
[22:21] <nixternal> crimsun: hahaha, only 1 day...see you are a superfreak
[22:22] <jcastro> nixternal: I have the temptation to pour beer in it and see if I can get drunk via the vapor cloud.
[22:22] <nixternal> jcastro: zicam is a miracle!
[22:22] <nixternal> hahahahhahahahahaha
[22:22] <nixternal> alcoholic vapor cloud
[22:22] <nixternal> gahahahahhaha
[22:22] <crimsun> nixternal: taking a sick day during shift work is a big deal, as you probably know.
[22:22] <nixternal> trying to think if I ever took a sick day at AT&T
[22:23] <nixternal> that was the only shift work that I can remember
[22:23] <nixternal> I know I was late once because of a snow storm, and that in itself was a big deal
[22:23] <Riddell> ScottK2: uploaded
[22:23] <nixternal> jcastro: theraflu cold & cough isn't to shabby either
[22:24] <jcastro> nixternal: day/nyquil seems to do the trick, only real problem has been the stuffed sinuses and sore throat
[22:24] <nixternal> stuff sinuses + zicam == love
[22:24] <jcastro> but having that vaporizer poison me all night while I slept seems to have done the trick.
[22:25] <crimsun> I found warm water with lemon and honey is nice
[22:25] <jcastro> I hear the lemon/water is the best
[22:27] <dasKreech> seele: You'll get sick holding in those bad jokes ;)
[22:27] <nixternal> I did tea with lemon and honey
[22:27] <nixternal> I did a whole box, like 100 tea baggies this week
[22:27] <seele> dasKreech: ive been sick for a while, its just that none of you have noticed
[22:27] <nixternal> ya, kind of hard to notice it on irc :)
[22:28] <dasKreech> Me too
[22:28] <nixternal> can't hear you sniffling, coughing, or the scratchy voice from the congestion
[22:28] <dasKreech> since last wednesday
[22:28] <jcastro> seele: I use twitter for things like that, I can't seem to figure out what else it's useful for
[22:29] <nixternal> lol
[22:29] <nixternal> sounds like me
[22:36] <nixternal> Hello! I am in San Francisco. Offers of beer, entertainment and marriage will be given appropriate consideration.
[22:36] <nixternal> ^^ hahaha Matt Garrett is hillarious
[23:09] <ryanakca> hmm.. just my imagination or does the KDE4 switch user icon on the locked session unlock dialog look a lot like the launchpad logo?
[23:13] <nixternal> superbowl time...later!
[23:49]  * dasKreech chuckles as he monitors #kubuntu-kde4