/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/02/04/#kubuntu-devel.txt

mhbnixternal: why does your football have so many pauses?00:00
mhb:o)00:01
dasKreechSo they can take a regulation time game and insert as many ads as they like into it over 6 hours00:02
mhbsix hours?00:03
mhbwow.00:03
dasKreechWhat with timeouts and overtimes and stoppages00:04
dasKreechIt sure feels like it:)00:04
dasKreechLike the longest hour in the world is the last 6 minutes of a NBA final00:06
mhbyou know, this superbowl is really crazy00:12
mhbwhen it comes to ads00:12
* ryanakca nods and isn't watching it :)00:13
mhbwhat I fail to understand is, that there are people in the Czech Republic ( nobody here plays this game,really ) and call into the studio about why there aren't any ads in our version00:13
mhbit's 01:13 am by the way.00:13
mhbthe people in a country that never liked this sport actually want to see the ads!00:14
ryanakcamhb: why would you want to see the adds?00:15
dasKreechI thought the point of the super bowl was ads00:15
ryanakcas/adds/ads/00:15
dasKreechI don't even know who is playing in it but I know who is running ads00:15
* ryanakca finds football a rather pointless sport to watch... while (timeleft != 0) {start; position += 1; stop;}00:16
mhbryanakca: I really don't know00:16
mhbryanakca: I guess it's the sign of the completely loony society00:16
mhbryanakca: when you get something (the sport) without ads (because we're in Europe I guess) and people actually demand the ads00:17
* ryanakca scratches his head and goes to get a glass of water00:18
mhbryanakca: and I guess the sport is pretty straightforward00:19
mhbryanakca: it's not like hockey, when everything can change in a second... or so it seemed to me.00:19
dasKreechseele: !torrent00:30
dasKreechbah00:30
dasKreech!torrent00:30
ubotuTorrent clients: Transmission (GTK and terminal-based), Deluge-Torrent, Freeloader, BitStormLite, BitTornado-GUI (GTK), KTorrent (KDE), QTorrent (Qt), Azureus (Java), TorrentFlux (web-based), bittornado, rTorrent, cTorrent, bittorrent, aria2 (terminal-based) - FAQ: http://www.bittorrent.com/FAQ.html - See also !P2P00:30
* seele blinks00:30
dasKreechseele: sorry about that00:30
seeleno worries :)00:30
dasKreechstupid client00:30
ryanakcamhb: yeah :)00:31
ryanakcamhb: gotta love hockey though :D00:32
mhbryanakca: well, my favourite sport is floorball.00:32
dasKreechseele: watching the game00:32
ryanakcafloorball?00:32
mhbryanakca: yes.00:32
mhbryanakca: look it up on wiki?00:33
seeledasKreech: sortof.. more like watching the commercials00:33
seeleif the patriots start kicking too much ass i'll lose interest00:33
mhbryanakca: it's similar to hockey, except you play it indoors, without skates, and no personal contact00:33
seelei'm rooting for NY00:33
ryanakcamhb: oh, ball hockey :)00:33
mhbryanakca: ca depends00:33
mhbor how you spell it00:34
mhbryanakca: you play it with a characteristic ball, pretty light.00:35
mhbryanakca: we also play "ball hockey" with harder balls.00:35
ryanakcaexcept us poor canadians use a tennis ball instnead of "a precision type ball, characterized by 1516 tiny dimples that reduce air resistance, as well as friction on the floor."00:35
ryanakcaoh, okies00:35
mhbyeah, that we play too00:35
seeleoh, looks like something exciting happened.. should go watch the replay00:35
mhbseele: heh, another member of the loony society00:35
mhbseele: who actually watches something "because of the ads"00:36
seelemhb: the commercials on super bowl sunday are a big sport00:36
seelecompanies pay millions for a 30 second ad00:36
mhbseele: yes, well... I know.00:36
mhbseele: but I fail to understand the people that watch it because of the ads.00:37
seelewell.. i dont think we really pay attention during the game00:37
mhbseele: imagine, there are people who watch it here in the czech rep. at 01:37 AM and ask the station why it has no ads00:37
seelehehe00:37
mhbthey don't air those ads much outside the U.S., I presume.00:38
mhbbut still... crazy.00:38
mhbmakes me want to return to the cave00:38
seelei dont think a lot of the commercials would make sense out of the US00:39
seelebut i bet they are still entertaining for everyone00:39
dasKreechmhb: Well seele watches it for the ads Probe her mind00:39
seelesome of them dont really sell the product.. it's like 30 seconds of entertainment with a logo at the end00:39
mhbads, the new entertainment.00:40
seelesome of the ads are better than our TV shows00:40
seeleand with the writer's strike, i think a lot of people are sick of reality tv00:40
mhb:o)00:40
mhbperhaps you could watch other nation's productions00:41
seeleactually, ive been watching lots of jdramas and korean tv00:41
seelesometimes ill catch the simpsons or family guy on tv.. but that's all i watch.  everything else are netflix and torrents00:42
mhbwell, if there was Blackadder, Monty Python's Flying Circus in the TV, perhaps I'd even watch it :o)00:42
* dasKreech doesn't watch TV in any case00:43
mhbseele: torrents, eh?00:43
mhb:o)00:43
dasKreechI plugged mine in the other day to see an episode of Monk00:43
seelemhb: sssh00:43
dasKreechit'd been plugged out for 7 months before that00:44
mhbseele: on your Windows box, I presume00:44
mhb:o)00:44
mhbnah ... I know directors who download torrents00:44
seelemhb: well the on demand netflix only works on windows.. but i usually get 3 at a time00:45
mndohi there!00:55
mhbhi00:55
mndojust made a clean install of alpha 4 and the meta package for kde4 isn't on the repos.. is it broken?00:56
dasKreechare we not allowed to put any icons on the desktop?01:17
mndodaskreech: did u tried: settings->desktop->behavior-> allow programs in desktop window?01:20
dasKreechno not that :)01:20
=== keffie_jayx is now known as effie_jayx
=== santiago-php is now known as santiago-ve
mhbseele: I like the part when you describe that you like Ubuntu being "Human"02:09
mhbseele: I somehow feel, from the icons to the update manager appearance, that Ubuntu handles this task much better than we (Kubuntu) do02:10
mhbperhaps because it is the lack of vision that hinders us.02:11
mhbwe usually hack on stuff because we like to, not looking at the greater picture02:11
mhbRiddell: yes, just what I expected02:48
mhbRiddell: a load of kofler's screaming "my distro is also good for KDE!" "mine too, and better than yours!"02:49
mhbsorry for the accurate, yet bitter, description02:51
seeleyay the patriots lost!03:06
mhbyay!03:08
mhbanother US-centric day behind us03:08
=== Pricey is now known as PriceChild
nixternalI didn't see that ending to the super bowl coming03:43
nixternalthe ads were horrible this year03:43
dasKreechThe yankees won?03:45
voriannixternal: eli had some moves at the end eh?03:45
vorianthat was pure magic03:46
dasKreechwe need two ppas03:47
nixternalya he did03:48
nixternalalthough I don't think he deserved the MVP03:48
nixternaleither Plaxico if you wanted to keep it offensive, or that other defensive dude that totally wiped out brady on every play03:48
vorianI liked that sack at the end03:49
vorianWatch out!03:49
vorianhere comes a 600lb rookie03:49
nixternalw00t, football season is over, hockey season has been a blur, golf season is year round thankfully, but guess what's in 2 weeks? you got it03:49
nixternalDaytona 500! boogity boogity boogity!03:49
voriannaw03:49
vorianMarch Madness!03:49
nixternalin 2 weeks, not next month silly :)03:50
vorianI can guarantee OSU will not be in this championship03:50
vorian:)03:50
nixternalI can guarantee that UMD nor U of M will be in it03:50
nixternalGO BLUE! or GO TERPS!03:51
vorianMichigan?03:51
vorianbah03:51
nixternalyup03:51
vorianaren't they still on suspension?03:51
* vorian giggles03:51
nixternalI am the only person in my family, of all that went to college, that didn't graduate from U of M03:51
nixternalI did U of MD instead03:51
nixternalCOLLEGE PARK!03:51
nixternalseele, ScottK, and crimsun know what I am talking about :)03:51
nixternalgo out to the Inner Harbor for some partays03:52
ScottKRiddell: The FTBFS bug affected Debian too.  Their maintainer has our patch now.04:00
ScottKRiddell: Thanks for the Scribus upload.04:01
ScottKnixternal: Thanks again for all the testing.04:01
nixternalno problem04:02
ScottKnixternal: When you were bemoaning the state of 64bit in Ubuntu, I thought of this message, but didn't find it until now: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=47A4A5DA.6050106%40hetnet.nl04:15
nixternalor we have to switch to Debian (aaaaaaargh .....)04:17
nixternalhahahhaha04:17
dasKreechnixternal: We shall need two ppas won't we ?04:35
nixternalfor what?05:02
dasKreechWell one ppa for kubuntu-kde4 and kde4 and one for kde4 weekly builds05:09
dasKreechRiddell: pinf05:31
dasKreechcontentless pinf :)05:31
=== marcel__ is now known as marcel
* dasKreech votes Systemsettings for SOU06:16
* nixternal votes his whicked pyqt4 skills get blown up officially06:48
Jucato+106:51
* Jucato has no pyqt* skiills :)06:51
nixternaleither do I obviously06:52
nixternalI want to code something damnit! I have written a line of my very own code in well over a month now..I am starting to jones for some code06:53
Jucato:D06:53
nixternals/have/haven't06:54
ScottK2nixternal: Speaking of pyqt, if you could figure out how to convince kde-guidance not to need pyqtconfig, then python-qt4 could be a sync from Debian.  That'll take some code I predict.07:06
nixternalya, something for me to destroy..nice try again :p07:07
nixternalseriously, I hate Berkley now because of you07:08
nixternal:p07:08
dasKreechnixternal: make systemsettings suck less07:10
nixternalfrom what I have used with system settings, it is better and easier to work with than kcontrol07:11
nixternalI haven't been a kcontrol fan since the old days though07:11
dasKreechYeah but I still can't browse it with my keyboard07:14
nixternalwow, Troy and I were talking about some KDE vs. Gnome games at the next conference..that sounds like fun07:16
nixternalUDS 2008 - Kubuntu vs. Ubuntu in a winner takes all!07:17
nixternalif it has anything to do with rugby, hockey, or eating, we will win!07:17
nixternalI have us covered there :)07:17
nixternalalthough, the last time I played rugby, I got my arse handed to me07:17
* nixternal beds07:24
nixternalg'nite07:24
=== hunger_t is now known as hunger
LureRiddell: good blog post (just a bit too much comparing with other distros for my taste)08:34
Lureand good reponse by seele too08:35
_StefanS_hey Tonio_08:53
Tonio_hey _StefanS_ :)08:54
Tonio_had a good we ?08:54
_StefanS_yessir08:54
_StefanS_and you?08:54
blizzzekhi10:18
sahin_wHi kubuntu devs! Shall I ask a rebuild? For more details see the following LP report:10:49
sahin_whttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/13462210:49
ubotuLaunchpad bug 134622 in opensync "kitchensync - opensync synchronization crash" [Undecided,New]10:49
Riddellsahin_w: in hardy?10:50
sahin_wRiddell: No, in gutsy.10:50
sahin_wRiddell: Maybe hardy also involved, however I did not tested yet.10:51
Riddelltrouble is you can't just rebuild in a stable release, you have to go through stable release update procedure10:53
Riddellwhich should be do-able, but it needs an explanation, and I'm not quite sure where the problem is caused10:53
sahin_wRiddell: Ok. I rebuilt myself, so for me it works.10:54
sahin_wRiddell: The problem is the same just in case fo basket.10:54
Riddellmm, interesting10:54
sahin_wRiddell: Basket sometimes didn't compiled against the actual kdepim package.10:54
Riddellso it's a binary incompatibility in libkdepim probably10:55
sahin_wRiddell: Yes, it is. I think...10:55
Riddellor libkcal2b10:56
sahin_wRiddell: This package is in universe (like basket).10:56
RiddellI wonder if we should update that version letter on the end for KDE 3.5.9 then10:56
sahin_wRiddell: So some package which is in the universe container not built against the proper kdepim package.10:57
Riddellor rather than kdepim should have been changed when the binary compatibility did10:57
sahin_wRiddell: Yep.10:58
Riddellsahin_w: ok, if I upload to universe, would you be willing to poke slangsek to let it though to -proposed (it's his archive day when he wakes up) then to have it tested10:58
sahin_wRiddell: On which channel? Where can I ping slanqsek?10:59
sahin_wRiddell: ubuntu-motu?10:59
Riddellsahin_w: #ubuntu-devel11:00
Riddellbut hang on a minute, I havn't uploaded yet11:00
sahin_wRiddell: Ok. I'm waiting...11:00
=== kblizzzek is now known as blizzzek
Riddellsahin_w: ok, 0.19-1build1 in gutsy-proposed unapproved queue, slangasek can approve when he wakes up11:08
sahin_wRiddell: Shall I ping slanqasek? Or he's just going to realize there is an unapproved package in the queue...11:09
sahin_wRiddell: ...When he wakes up...11:10
Riddellsahin_w: yes ping, he just won't respond until he's awake11:11
sahin_wRiddell: Ok, I will.11:11
Riddelland that's a g not a q :)11:12
sahin_wRiddell: I have to increase my font size! ;-)11:21
Riddellhunger_t: a question for you on Dot http://dot.kde.org/1201953591/1201974332/1201974825/1201979129/1201984832/11:25
=== huahua is now known as Shely
=== Igorot_ is now known as Igorot
_StefanS_Riddell: I'm not really sure how to make that apply/unapply ruleset for the package, could you help?11:53
Riddell_StefanS_: before the place where it runs configure add a line "patch -p1 < debian/patches/foo.diff"11:55
Riddelland after the clean rule add "-patch -p1 -R < debian/patches/foo.diff"11:55
Riddellthe "-" at the start there means it gets ignored if it fails (if the patch isn't already applied)11:55
* Hobbsee waves11:56
_StefanS_ok thnx11:56
hunger_tRiddell: Thanks!11:59
mhbhey _StefanS_12:00
_StefanS_mhb: hey12:07
=== hunger_t is now known as hunger
mhb_StefanS_: how's your window-decoration adventures?12:16
mhb_StefanS_: still interested in it?12:18
* jussi01 waves at Hobbsee 12:35
Hobbsee:)12:36
Riddellmeh, konqueror is broken, it wants to open links in a separate app12:42
Riddellbut flash works :)12:42
gribelui want this :| http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=80612:43
_StefanS_mhb: yes I am12:46
iRon_StefanS_: do you plan to use the same style for KDE4? Or KDE4 will be shipped with default Oxygen theme?13:01
_StefanS_iRon: I havent really taken kde4 into consideration (yet)13:04
mhb_StefanS_: hmm, I must have missed the part when you answer me :o)13:20
=== mhb_ is now known as mhb
Riddellstdin: about?13:34
RiddellI relalise the 4.0.1 release is on wednesday13:34
Riddellare you able to do ppa backports tomorrow?13:35
jpatrickapachelogger__: bist du da?13:42
apachelogger__jpatrick: aye13:45
* apachelogger__ is audaciting right now :D13:46
jpatrickapachelogger__: just checking is dragonplayer (1.99~rc1) the 2.0~rc1 on the website?13:46
apachelogger__jpatrick: yes13:46
jpatrickok, great13:47
apachelogger__talking about that, did anyone backport that yet?13:47
* apachelogger__ looks over to Riddell ;-)13:47
jpatricknop13:47
apachelogger__omg13:47
apachelogger__that flatline was too high13:47
* apachelogger__ ain't hearing anything -.-13:47
jpatrickapachelogger__: just checking, because I'm trying to get it into Debian13:48
Riddellapachelogger__: don't see it in the ppa13:48
apachelogger__Riddell: https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members-kde4/+archive/+index?field.name_filter=dragonplayer&field.status_filter=published13:49
Riddellapachelogger__: cool13:49
apachelogger__auto-backport from hardy should work, in case the script isn't still broken ;-)13:49
Riddellapachelogger__: seems to be fixed13:50
* Riddell backports13:51
_StefanS_mhb: I did answer you :) I'm still into the win deco stuff14:05
mhb_StefanS_: my opinion is that the current KDE4 windeco is not top of the class14:08
_StefanS_mhb: I agree..14:08
_StefanS_mhb: the thing is; I14:08
_StefanS_mhb: I'm still using crystal for the windeco, and I'm not sure it has been ported to kde414:08
mhbsomehow, I have dream of creating a "Human" windeco that goes well with the idea of making KDE more human-friendly14:08
_StefanS_mhb: yes thats a good idea indeed.14:09
_StefanS_mhb: I will experiment a bit w14:09
_StefanS_mhb: with what can be done14:09
stdinRiddell: things are quieting down for me this week, I should be about more now. so I should be available tomorrow14:09
* _StefanS_ 's enter is buggin out14:09
mhbbecause before now, we've always somehow hacked together what was available, without any "bigger vision"14:10
Riddellstdin: great14:10
Tonio_Riddell: hey15:39
Tonio_Riddell: I think I just found a bug in kdesudo maybe relative to the --nonewdcop you implemented....15:40
Tonio_Riddell: here is how to reproduce :15:40
Tonio_Riddell: start systemsettings -> monitors and display -> go admin mode15:40
Tonio_then you can't apply any change you made...15:40
Tonio_Riddell: can you eventually confirm the issue also appears on your machine ?15:43
Riddelldoes displayconfig even work?15:49
Riddellno, not here15:49
Tonio_Riddell: works for me15:52
Tonio_well no issue if I go admin mode using the original kdesu15:52
Riddell  File "/usr/share/python-support/kde-guidance/displayconfigwidgets.py", line 46, in setScreen15:52
Riddell    self.screensizeslider.setMaxValue(len(screen.getAvailableResolutions())-1)15:52
RiddellAttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getAvailableResolutions'15:52
Riddellquite broken here15:52
Tonio_Riddell: you can try with knetworkconf15:53
Tonio_same issue15:53
Tonio_no way to apply settings using kdesudo15:53
ultracapstart systemsettings -> advanced -> disk & filesystems15:53
Tonio_Riddell: the difference between systemsettings and kcontrol is that the "apply" button is part of the window that is refreshed and goes admin15:54
Tonio_Riddell: I suspect systemsettings to do a lot more dcop things on that point....15:54
Tonio_this might be related to an environnement variable missing when using kdesudo or something like this....15:55
Tonio_hard to say15:55
Riddellmm, I see the issue15:55
ultracapapachelogger: are you free to talk?16:01
apacheloggerultracap: depends about what ;-)16:03
Tonio_Riddell: where to look at according to you ? env variables or nonewdcop feature code ?16:03
Tonio_Riddell: that's not easy to debug.....16:03
Riddellno, it's horrible to debug16:04
ultracapapachelogger: screensaver issue?16:04
RiddellI don't really know where to look I'm afraid16:04
apacheloggerultracap: uh, lovely, what's the issue?16:04
ultracapapachelogger: lp 17310916:05
ubotuLaunchpad bug 173109 in kubuntu-default-settings "2 Screen Savers not working" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17310916:05
ultracapapachelogger: I think16:05
ultracapapachelogger: I get this on both my machines16:06
apacheloggerultracap: different graphic card vendors?16:06
sebasThis getAvailableResolutions is a bitch.16:07
ultracapapachelogger: Only similarity is same brand of screen16:08
sebasIt should probably return something that 'always work' instead of None if things fail16:08
sebasLike "famous last words"16:08
apacheloggerultracap: fresh gutsy installations?16:08
sebasDidn't keithp say that 1024x768 always works?16:08
apacheloggersebas: always is a dangerous word to use ;-)16:09
sebasRight, but I thought I'd say something funny16:09
sebasfunny and X11 is also ... dubious.16:10
apacheloggerindeed16:10
* apachelogger continues hunting missing amarok icons16:11
ultracapapachelogger: Gutsy is now an up to date Hardy on one machine16:11
* apachelogger stops again :P16:11
apacheloggerultracap: well, did you upgrade to gutsy?16:11
ultracapapachelogger: no that was a fresh install16:13
apacheloggerhm16:13
apacheloggerultracap: so what graphics drivers are you using?16:14
ultracapapachelogger: Other machine needs a reinstall (with kde4) but screensavers didn't work from alpha3+ livecd16:15
ultracapapachelogger: intel and radeon16:16
apacheloggerultracap: totally strange, I honestly can't think of a component which would cause this issue... maybe you can get someone else to reproduce it?16:18
apacheloggermaybe in #kubuntu-testers or #kubuntu16:18
ultracapapachelogger: do you recognise all the subscribers to the lp bug?16:21
ultracapapachelogger: should I post on the forums as well?16:22
apacheloggerultracap: there are only you and me subscribed16:23
apacheloggerforums is a good idea though16:23
ultracapapachelogger: sorry I meant 'also notified'16:24
apacheloggerultracap: well, they are general bug contacts for the k-d-s package16:25
ultracapapachelogger: Okay thanks - I have a sort of related issue, i can't exit a screensaver test by moving the mouse (buttons work)16:27
ultracapapachelogger: Normal screensavers can be cleared by moving the mouse (gesture?)16:28
apacheloggeryep16:29
apacheloggeronly the test runs need a click16:29
ultracapapachelogger: Works as intended?16:30
apacheloggeryes16:30
ultracapapachelogger: want more?16:30
apacheloggerjust keep em coming :D16:31
ultracapapachelogger: The desktop icon in the panel doesn't seem to update when using the back/forward buttons or loading a bookmark16:33
ultracapapachelogger: Click on it and it updates16:33
apacheloggerultracap: desktop icon?16:34
apacheloggerback/forward?16:34
apacheloggersorry, I have no KDE 3 to test16:34
ultracapThe forward and backward (history) buttons in konqueror16:35
ultracapThe icon in the desktop1 box16:36
apacheloggeroh16:36
apacheloggerultracap: you mean the pager?16:36
apacheloggerthe applet which shows your virtual desktops16:36
ultracapI think so, 2 have been configured and I can switch between them.16:38
apacheloggeryeah, well, this is clearly a bug in KDE (http://bugs.kde.org) if you want to report it16:39
apacheloggerbut it is a pretty minor issue16:39
apacheloggerso the possability it gets fixed isn't that high in my opinion16:39
Tonio_Riddell: it looks lke the all newdcop code is ignored....16:40
Tonio_Riddell: NEWDCOP env variable should be set when using the option afaik16:40
ultracapapachelogger: I will report if you recomend but KDE 4 is where focus should be?16:43
ultracapapachelogger: Anyway thanks for your assistance, much appreciated.16:44
apacheloggerultracap: well, technically KDE 3 still gets updated, but everyone focuses on KDE 4, so unimportant bugs like this one have almost no chance to be fixed16:44
ScottK2apachelogger: That'd be almost everyone...16:46
* ScottK2 still can't bring myself to care about KDE4.16:47
Tonio_Riddell: sudo overrides the env variables, then dcopserver is unset......16:47
apacheloggerScottK2: well, talking about upstream :)16:47
Tonio_Riddell: I'm testing with sudo preserving the environment16:48
ScottK2Even there we should have a 3.5.9 soon.16:49
apacheloggerScottK2: yeah, but they focus on KDE 4 development, so small bugs, like missing gui updates, might not get fixed anymore16:50
apacheloggerespecially since the code gets completely replaced in KDE 4 anyway ... as for pager16:50
ScottK2Agreed.  It's just that it's not yet quite completely ignored.16:50
ScottK2Right16:50
Tonio_Riddell: found it :)16:55
Tonio_Riddell: DCOPSERVER env needs to be preserved ;)16:55
Tonio_Riddell: I'll release a fixed kdesudo today16:55
Hobbseeallee: feel free to hound them.  maybe next time they'll pay attention to people who say "this is really important, you need to fix this" *before* it's been sitting there for a month and a half.16:59
RiddellTonio_: well done17:30
tlaytonRiddell: read your article yesterday. c++ is probably not for me, but i could get in pyqt and pykde. where is the best place to get started? techbase only has a small article mainly concerning slots17:32
tlaytonbtw, i'm at borders right now, and there only seems to be generic python books here17:32
ScottKtlayton: I'd suggest looking at kde-guidance bugs.  All the guidance bits are in Python.17:33
Riddelltlayton: you could write some pykde introductions for techbase17:34
Riddellthere's currently zero information on pykde 417:34
smarterSome guy has written a gtk-qt-engine for qt4: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/gtk-kde4?content=7468917:41
Riddellnoo17:41
Riddellthat's a gtk configuration tool17:41
smarteroh stupid me, I really need sleep :)17:42
tlaytonRiddell: will there eventually be a kde-guidance-kde4 package?17:43
Riddelltlayton: hope so17:43
Riddelltlayton: it's blocked on a kde 4 libpythonize (which lets you use pykde in kcontrol modules)17:43
Riddelltlayton: although there's no reason the apps couldn't be ported to kde 4 in the mean time, they run as standalone apps too17:44
tlaytonRiddell: gotcha. well, let me play with them for a few days then i'll get back with you, if that's okay17:44
Riddelltlayton: certainly ok!17:45
d-millersmarter: is this what you was looking for? http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=users/ruphy/gtk-qt4-engine.git;a=summary17:54
smarterd-miller: thank you :)17:55
smarterI'll try to package it later17:55
smarterif someone is not already working on it17:55
Ze-MTonio_: ping18:13
Tonio_Ze-M: yep ?18:14
Ze-MTonio_: did you the private?18:14
Ze-MTonio_: did you saw the private?18:14
Tonio_Ze-M: necessary to talk privately ?18:14
Ze-MTonio_: no but i would prefer18:14
Tonio_k18:14
nixternalmornin'18:21
Ze-Mcan anyone tell me if in kubuntu x86_64 konqueror displays webpages that use flash plugins?18:22
Riddellthat depends on many things18:25
Riddellnixternal: good morning, how's the extragear packaging going?18:25
Ze-MRiddell: depends if you have nspluginwrapper installed to wrap flash that its only 32bits18:26
RiddellZe-M: yes, also the version of konqueror and of flash18:26
Ze-MRiddell: yes, i cant have konqueror wotking with latest flash-9.0.115 but konqueror works fine with flash-9.0.48.0 and nspluginwrapper latest version18:27
Ze-Mi was just trying to know if in kubuntu konqueror would work ok with latest flash-9.0.11518:28
nixternalRiddell: could be finished within the hour...are we pushing it up a day?18:31
=== czessi_ is now known as Czessi
nixternalI was planning on finishing them up today thinking we still had 2 days18:32
Riddellnixternal: dunno, the release is likely tomorrow evening so I guess tonight would be good to start uploading18:32
nixternalno problem18:32
nixternalmuch shorter extragear for 4.0.118:32
tlaytonRiddell: where do i find the bzr link for kde-guidance?18:48
tomanixternal: yeah, various reasons18:49
Riddelltlayton: it's in svn, http://websvn.kde.org/branches/extragear/kde3/utils/guidance/18:50
tlaytonRiddell: then i need to apply the .diff file?  these first couple of steps are new to me, so please be patient. i'll pick it up quick18:51
Riddelltlayton: I don't think we have any patches that arn't in svn, just checkout from KDE's anonsvn and that's that sources18:53
Riddell/ank/nam18:54
tlaytonRiddell: ok, i was just looking at the lpad +source page, and there was a diff file. appears to already have the debian/* files in it18:54
Riddelltlayton: in .deb packaging the .diff file is usually just the debian/ packaging files18:55
Riddellsoo, who all wants to go to UDS or FOSSCamp?18:58
* Riddell eyes up nixternal 18:58
* Riddell looks at apachelogger 18:58
* Riddell keeks at stdin 18:59
=== Pricey is now known as PriceChild
stdinI would like to, but I don't know if I'll have the time/money atm19:00
nixternalwhere are they at this time around?19:00
nixternaldunno if I will have a passport in time19:01
Riddellnixternal: eastern europe, middle of may19:01
nixternalbut seeing as the school stuff isn't attached to me the way it was last year, I would be able to go of course19:01
nixternalhrmm19:01
Riddellstdin: expenses are paid19:01
nixternallet me see if I can get my passport stuff situated...I have a ton of unpaid parking tickets to pay off here first, but my x-wife told me that I could get one from Maryland and not have to worry about the Illinois parking tickets19:02
=== PriceChild is now known as Pricey
Riddellparking tickets stop you getting a passport?19:03
nixternalthey do now here in Illinois19:03
nixternalif you owe the state any money, they will not provide you a passport19:03
Riddellharsh19:03
nixternaljust a bit19:03
nixternalbut I should be able to get one in Maryland hopefully19:03
=== Pricey is now known as PriceChld
nixternalluckily for me, I will be able to get mine at the military base there quicker if it all goes through19:04
nixternalman, I remember being able to fly almost anywhere w/o a passport while in the military19:04
=== PriceChld is now known as PriceChild
nixternalwhich honestly, made it easy for identity theft..had to have a copy or your social security card and birth certificate19:05
tlaytonRiddell: do i need to use the ubuntu diff with the svn code so i package it the same?19:06
Riddelltlayton: what are you looking to do?19:07
tlaytoncheck out the bugs that ScottK mentioned, learn a bit, and then package local here on hardy19:08
tlaytonnote: my background is java, perl, and sql, with an emphasis in speech recognition, so debian packaging is new to me19:08
nixternalRiddell: with the new kde.mk, do we have to do anything else, say with the rules file at all?19:09
tlaytonso, i thought i'd take some time now to help out and learn a bit as well.19:09
Riddelltlayton: if you want to build local packages just   apt-get source kde-guidance; cd kde-guidance-<tab>; debuild19:10
nixternallooks as if we can remove the wrapper stuff from rules maybe?19:10
Riddelltlayton: but generally if you're working on the code you don't want to worry about packages at the same time so you'd check out of svn and work with that (and it's python so no compiling necessary, they should just run directly)19:10
Riddellnixternal: if it's the version with kde4-wrapper-creation: at the bottom you shouldn't need anything in rules19:11
Riddellnixternal: but do check the .desktop files have the absolute path in them19:11
nixternalthat's what I thought...just wanted to make sure19:11
nixternalroger19:11
Tonio_Riddell: kdesudo uploaded19:11
Tonio_Riddell: it'll hopefully also fixed the bug seen on the livecd session using nonewdcop option..... hopefully :)19:12
RiddellTonio_: yay19:12
RiddellTonio_: interested in UDS?19:12
nixternalExec=kcoloredit %U19:12
Riddellnixternal: hrm19:12
nixternalthat is what you are looking for in the desktop files?19:12
nixternalthat doesn't look absolute to me :)19:12
Tonio_Riddell: of course !19:13
Riddellnixternal: fooey, possibly it doesn't work for single binary packages19:13
Tonio_Riddell: I'll have more free time in the next 6 month as I just left the it services for the support services...19:13
Tonio_Riddell: so I don't want to miss the full kde4 implementation !19:13
nixternalI thought with the old way it did work with the single binary packages19:13
Riddellany thougts on specs we should think about at UDS?19:18
nixternalhrmm, good question19:19
ScottK2Riddell: For Hardy +1 I think KDE4 by default would be the #1 thing.19:19
Riddellyou mean like we're doing for hardy? :)19:20
nixternalhehe19:20
Riddellbut retiring kde 3 is on my list19:21
ScottK2OK.19:21
nixternalwhat about moving KDE 3 -> universe and moving KDE 4 -> main..is that going to occur for Hardy+119:21
nixternalRiddell: retiring or just moving it to universe?19:21
nixternalwould be nice to still maintain it for as long as we can..think of all of the kde3 rollouts19:21
ScottK2How about smooth KDE3 --> KDE4 upgrade transition?19:22
nixternalthat should definitely be one19:22
Riddellnixternal: well this is what we'll discuss at UDS19:23
nixternalRiddell: groovy19:23
tlaytonRiddell: ok, another question on kde-guidance. displayconfig crashes if there is no ServerLayout section. however, i'm using intel video and nothings wrong with xorg.conf. where/how would i find out if 1) this section is needed, and 2) if it is, should create a default based on other values in the conf file19:24
tlaytonRiddell: note, i did a reconfigure at one time when testing out different compiz settings19:26
Riddelltlayton: that's a problem I have too.  I'm pretty sure its caused by more modern X.org versions not needing specific configuration any more, you'd need to ask the X packagers about that (bryce)19:26
ScottK2tlayton: If you are interested in trying to learn by rooting through the code, I'm curious why kde-guidance mountconfig needs pyqtconfig (I don't think it should).19:28
tlaytonScottK2: yeah, i just picked out one or two when i noticed that. per your suggestion with kde-guidance, i was planning on checking it all out via the code. pretty good at that, and a great way to learn19:29
LureRiddell: do we need to get new packages in before FeatureFreeze?19:30
ScottK2If we could get that particular bit solved, then our python-qt3 package could be sync'ed from Debian without change.19:31
ScottK2tlayton: Are you on Hardy i386 by chance?19:31
tlaytonScottK2: yes19:31
tlaytonScottK2: well, actually -generic if you're talking about the kernel19:32
RiddellLure: it gets harder after feature freeze19:32
ScottK2tlayton: If you replace the hard python-qt3 with http://www.kitterman.com/test/python-qt3_3.17.4-1_i386.deb then mountconfig should crash reliably for you.19:32
RiddellLure: what are you thinking of?19:32
ScottK2tlayton: No, the processor arch.19:32
LureRiddell: qlandkarte - it is actually already in NEW source queue, but I do not know if I need to push on archive-admin's yet19:33
ScottK2tlayton: That's also got a lower version number than our current Hardy one, so you downgrade to that and then you can just apt-get upgrade back to a working config.19:33
Lure^^ hint, hint ;-)19:33
RiddellLure: I'll get to it tomorrow (my archive day)19:34
LureRiddell: thanks19:34
nixternalRiddell: would it be feasible to patch the .desktop files to give them an absolute path for single binary packages?19:35
nixternalI am doing a test build w/o just to see what the outcome is19:35
Riddellnixternal: why patch?  just use the rules as before19:35
nixternalderr19:35
nixternalOK, so revert back to the old kde.mk for single binary packages then?19:36
Riddellif it doesn't work with the ones in kde.mk then use whatever was being used in the last upload19:36
tlaytonScottK2: why that version of py-qt3, vs what is on hardy? you talking about a backport?19:36
nixternalgotcha19:36
Riddellno keep the same one, does no harm and there's other changes19:36
ScottK2tlayton: That's the debian version built on the hardy tool chain.  It doesn't have pyqtconfig in it, so mountconfig will crash.  My goal (that I haven't had a lot of time to work on yet) is to teach mountconfig not to need it so we can synch python-qt3 from Debian.19:37
ScottK2If we can make mountconfig work with that version of the package, then we no longer need to maintain a Kubuntu diff for python-qt3.19:38
tlaytonanything major you know if may crash if i install it?19:38
ScottK2tlayton: AFAIK only mountconfig.19:38
tlaytonScottK2: ok, i'll play with it for a while19:39
ScottK2With the exception of not having pyqtconfig it's identical to the current Hardy package19:39
apacheloggerRiddell: depends a lot on the when and where :)19:40
ScottK2The fun part about this excercise is that according to grep, the phrase pyqtconfig is no where in the mountconfig code, so it'll be a bit of a chase.  Should be a good learning experience.19:40
tlaytonScottK2: thx!19:41
Riddellapachelogger: eastern europe, May sometime19:42
apacheloggerRiddell: hm, I have final exams in May, so it's very unlikely that I am able to come :(19:44
Tonio_apachelogger: :'(19:45
nixternaltoma: I am seeing some strange things here with the extragear tagging...with the 4.0.0 tagging, all extragear components had 4.0.0 versions, now I am seeing 3.3.6 and 0.2 and stuff like that for the 4.0.1 tagging of extragear components19:48
tlaytonScottK2: by just commenting out 'import kdedesigner' seemed to solve that problem on pyqtconfig? is that what you were looking for to start with?19:48
tomanixternal: did you receive my mail on kde-packagers, or do you only get the tarballs ?19:49
* nixternal checks kde-packagers19:49
* Riddell doubts nixternal is on kde-packages19:49
* Riddell forwards e-mail19:50
* jpatrick point nixternal to http://kde.me.uk/index.php?page=top-secret-kde-groups19:51
nixternaltoma: OK, read it19:51
nixternalRiddell: I am on kde-packagers :)19:51
nixternalI am everywhere man, just like KDE :)19:51
Riddellwell well19:52
apachelogger+well19:52
nixternalalso about kgrab...vorian was working on this yesterday because he grabbed it from kde-apps.org and I noticed some iconsistencies with the copyright headers19:53
apacheloggeryou're not on mine19:53
apacheloggermuhahahahaha19:53
apacheloggertha top secret amarok lists19:53
mhbmmm, secrets19:53
ScottK2tlayton: I guess I'd like to understand what the impact of that would be then.  Do we lose functionality as a result?19:53
tomanixternal: what's the use of being on a mailinglist if you don't read it? ;-)19:53
nixternalya, didn't Riddell just comment about these "elitist lists" :p19:53
nixternaltoma: shhh :)19:53
apacheloggertoma is having a good point though :P19:54
tomayou can not silence me, just like KDE !19:54
nixternalooh, good one :)19:54
* apachelogger just got reminded to have a look at the mailing lists19:54
apacheloggerboring it is, but it has to be done19:54
apacheloggerjpatrick: right?19:54
jpatrickapachelogger: was eber du sagst19:55
Riddellapachelogger: why not just use kde-packagers for amarok?19:55
nixternalOK you packagers, what would be the best way to build these new 4.0.1 packages where the version number is no longer 4.0.0, but something < 4.0.0?19:55
Riddellnixternal: epoch19:55
tomaepoch19:55
nixternalw00t, so I was on the right track19:55
tomasorry for that19:55
nixternalthat's alright toma, you still get a cookie from me :)19:56
apacheloggerRiddell: prolly because I didn't know about that list until now... I also doubt anyone else in the team did ;-)19:56
tomao great, cookies. make me fatter19:56
nixternalhehe19:56
Riddellapachelogger: that's the trouble with secret lists..19:56
apacheloggeralso, by keeping it invitation only we can produce better PR bubbles19:56
* apachelogger notes that following mailing lists isn't exactly easy with gmail19:58
jpatrickapachelogger: alpine ftw :p20:00
apacheloggerpfft20:00
apacheloggerkontact I say20:00
apacheloggerjust that the KDE 3 version ate everything when I started it from within KDE 420:01
apacheloggervery strange20:01
ScottK2Excellent reason for me not to be running KDE4.  Thanks for the warning.20:01
apacheloggerhehe :)20:02
jpatrickapachelogger: what you get for playing with .kde|.kde4 :)20:02
tlaytonKScottK2: doesn't appear any lost functionality, but there does appear to be a couple of bugs. would this utility end of replacing startup-manager, or only effect /etc/fstab?20:02
apacheloggerI think ScottK2 is having a highligh on KDE 4 to find reasons for not having a look at the allmighty 4 :D20:02
apacheloggerjpatrick: actually, I didn't20:02
apacheloggerI do all the nasty stuff on the laptop20:02
nixternaljust to make sure I got this one right, for kfax, the new version is 3.3.6, so the new ubuntu package version would be 4:3.3.6-0ubuntu120:02
apacheloggerin fact I don't even have own KDE 4 packages on my workstation20:03
ScottK2tlayton: I believe it just affects /etc/fstab.20:03
apacheloggeronly PPA packages20:03
apacheloggernixternal: was it epoch 3 before?20:03
apacheloggeror 0?20:03
nixternalno epoch previously20:04
ScottK2tlayton: I guess the thing to do now would be to try and understand why the import was there to begin with and see if the reason still has any validity20:04
apacheloggeryeah, I'd go with 4 then, keep it consitent with the rest of KDE 420:04
nixternalI am thinking of the epoch...exactly that was used with the main kde 4 packages20:04
tlaytonScottK2: np, like i mentioned to Riddell, i'll probably take a couple days to play around with it, and the other parts of guidance. but i should be online during that time20:05
apacheloggeromg20:06
apacheloggercouncil election already over20:06
* apachelogger kneels in front of nixternal and praises the new council member20:06
apacheloggermaybe the wisdom of the universe be with you20:06
* apachelogger shakes hand and congratulates20:07
ScottK2tlayton: Cool.  No rush.  It's better to get this right than fast.20:07
nixternalapachelogger: thanks :)20:08
=== hunger_t is now known as hunger
tlaytonon this python stuff, is eric ide good to use, or just still with ole venerable vi?20:14
tlaytons/still/stick/20:14
nixternalI have been giving eric a shot, there are still some things I haven't figured out just yet20:15
ScottK2I use vim/kate myself, but I've heard good things about eric.  We've a major new release in Hardy, so it could use some testing.20:15
nixternalScottK2: I have been testing it :)20:15
ScottK2Excellent20:15
nixternalI just can't figure out how to run the code I have created with eric just yet20:15
nixternalnor could I find any user documentation for eric 420:16
ScottK2There's always idle20:16
nixternalwhat is idle?20:16
tlaytoneric idle? monty python? ...20:16
nixternalya, why not name your Python IDE, the Full Monty!20:17
Simeeric is a bit clunky, but generally works. except for the ctrl+space  completion.20:17
mhbI always liked chapman20:17
nixternalI couldn't get completion to work the way I wanted it to20:17
nixternalit did work on basic completion, but didn't work well with the PyQt4 completion20:17
nixternalactually, didn't work at all..I am sure there is a setting I am missing..so I will go through their wiki to see how to properly setup for qt4 again20:18
ScottK2idle is the IDE that's shipped with Python.20:21
ScottK2(assuming that wasn't sarcasm)20:21
jpatrickhi stdin20:22
stdinhey \o20:22
nixternalScottK2: ahh ya...and the funny thing, I just read about it last night while thumbing through the first couple of chapters of my python book :)20:23
ScottK2I used it (idle) back when I was on Windows.20:23
_StefanS_kwwii: did you get my messages?20:27
kwwii_StefanS_: nope20:29
_StefanS_kwwii: we've got permission to use the wallpaper from djmattricks20:29
kwwii_StefanS_: killer, now we need to know who in community is interested in changing the wallpaper :-)20:30
_StefanS_kwwii: I asked him today how he would feel about maybe darken it a bit (someone suggested that it might be a reason not to use it)20:31
_StefanS_kwwii: its kinda light, but i dont want it to be all dark either.20:31
kwwiiyeah, I kinda like it as-is but then again, I like the other one too20:32
kwwiithis one is much more subtle20:32
aantipopping apachelogger20:32
_StefanS_kwwii: yep, and has a fresh appearance anyways20:32
_StefanS_kwwii: btw, when could you have time to fix those buttons for the deco?20:33
kwwiiwe can bring it up in an email to the art list but we would get lots of useless answers20:33
apacheloggeraantipop: tach20:33
kwwii_StefanS_: I might get some time next weekend20:33
_StefanS_kwwii: I say we take a vote with the ones that want to attent20:33
_StefanS_attend even20:33
_StefanS_kwwii: when is the FF ?20:33
kwwiiyeah but that is like letting a few developers decide on what is the best pic20:34
kwwiino idea when feature freeze is20:34
Lurekwwii: Feb 14, afair20:34
_StefanS_kwwii: I guess next week is fine then20:34
aantipopapachelogger: du hast doch damals projectM gepackt..das aktuelle paket von hardy funzt bei mir nicht ?!20:34
apacheloggeraantipop: 1. ist das aktuelle paket ein 100%iger debian sync 2. was zeichnet ein nicht funzen aus? ;-)20:35
_StefanS_kwwii: well, if we make a small meeting inviting those who are interested, dont you think thats enough? I mean the current wallpaper is not that amazing imho20:35
aantipopapachelogger: wenn ich projectm als libvisual plugin starten will, öffnet sich ganz kurz das fenster, sclhießt sich aber sofort..keine ahnung wie ich da eine fehlermeldung herauslesen könnte20:36
nixternalRiddell: for kgrab, I will upload as soon as I build it...it is new20:37
nixternalactually, I guess it is best for it to go through revu first20:38
nixternaljpatrick and apachelogger: within the next hour I should have a kgrab package for you20:38
nixternalI need to find vorian's package, as he started it yesterday, but the copyright headers were goofy in kgrab20:39
jpatricknixternal: I'll get it past the debian guys :)20:39
apacheloggeraantipop: welcher grafiktreiber?20:39
nixternalfor some reason, Debian hasn't been doing any of the extragear stuff I have noted20:39
nixternals/noted/noticed20:39
aantipopapachelogger: nvidia-glx20:39
apacheloggermhhh20:39
nixternalif they have, they aren't uploading them to the kde4 svn repo20:39
apacheloggernixternal: they probably just wait until we create the better packages ;-)20:40
jpatricknixternal: they're in experimental no? ah well, I've got several Kubuntu packages though to them in the last few days20:40
aantipopapachelogger: es geht aber gar nicht diesmal, letzesmal konnte ich durch resizen projectm starten..20:40
apacheloggeraantipop: jo, den bug kenn ich... hast dich schonmal im projectm forum umgehört?20:40
apacheloggeraantipop: vl gibts probleme mit dem x oder der 3d in hardy20:41
aantipopapachelogger: hab versucht einen svn snapshot zu kompilieren, aber da komme ich nicht weiter20:41
apacheloggeraantipop: ich würde da einfach mal nachfragen ob etwas bekannt ist, in letzterzeit gabs immer wiedermal probleme mit dem X zeug in hardy20:43
aantipopapachelogger: @ ubuntuforums oder wo ?20:44
nixternalscrew that noise, go in to offer a hand to debian and they bite it...20:46
jpatricknixternal: that's why I went in real slow...20:46
apacheloggeraantipop: zB, oder direkt bei projectm :P20:47
ScottKnixternal: Think of Debian as a collective of individual maintainers.  It doesn't really have a group personality.20:47
aantipopapachelogger: ich glaube nicht, dass die dich mit hardy herons problemen beschäftigen20:47
ScottKnixternal: What'd you do?20:47
nixternalScottK: typically the Qt/KDE people do20:47
ScottKK20:48
nixternalat least ana and pusling20:48
apacheloggeraantipop: nein, aber vielleicht hat schonma wer im forum von denen rumgenervt20:49
apacheloggerausserdem wissen die am besten woran es hacken könnte20:49
nixternalScottK: you are in there too...you see the unnecessary noise20:49
aantipopapachelogger: ok, danke20:49
ScottKYeah.  Just play nice and don't get riled up.20:50
nixternalI am playing nice....I am going back to finishing OUR Kubuntu work now :)20:50
apacheloggermhhhhhhh20:50
apacheloggerkubuntu20:50
apacheloggerahhhhhh20:50
* apachelogger really gotta stop watching simpsons all day long20:50
smarterapachelogger: the oxygen cursor set is still not released and feature freeze is near :/20:51
apacheloggersmarter: indeed20:51
smartercan't we just upload it and backport it only when it will be released?20:51
apacheloggerjpatrick: what do you think20:51
apacheloggershould we just push it to new?20:52
apacheloggersmarter: sure20:52
apacheloggerwouldn't change the fact that we have a pre-release package ;-)20:52
smarterhardy is beta, so beta softwares are not a problem ;)20:52
jpatricksmarter, apachelogger: just got through Debian NEW queue20:52
apacheloggerhaha20:52
apacheloggerso much about debian + upstream interaction20:52
apacheloggersmarter: well it is not beta :P20:53
apacheloggertechnically it's pre-alpha20:53
smarteryes20:53
jpatrickapachelogger: request sync :P (Riddell: poe)20:53
jpatrickpoke*20:53
smarterbut I never heard of a cursor theme crashing your computer :)20:53
apacheloggersmarter: request sync :P20:53
smartersync what what?20:54
apacheloggersmarter: yeah, I only waited because ruphy saied he is planing on a release anyway20:54
apacheloggerwell20:54
apacheloggerthat was pre-release event20:54
apacheloggerand now20:54
apacheloggerhe is like... lost20:54
apacheloggerwell, at least he is online again :D20:54
kwwii_StefanS_: we should talk to Riddell and find out what he thinks first20:55
_StefanS_kwwii: well he sounded somewhat positive :)20:55
smarterI was wondering if I should use arch: all20:55
jpatricksmarter: debian sync20:55
* smarter doesn't know what a debian sync is :(20:56
jpatricksmarter, apachelogger: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-changes/2008/02/msg00419.html20:56
Trigger7ah, they want to package^Wcopy the oxygen cursors20:57
Trigger7haha20:57
Trigger7wrong window. we are talking in #debian-qt-kde on oftc about debian and ubuntu working together right now20:58
Trigger7the question was something like "why don't we (ubuntu and debian) work closer together"20:58
jpatrickTrigger7: he *did* package it, long ago20:58
Trigger7jpatrick: didn't want to offend anyone :)20:59
jpatricksmarter: un moment s'il vous plait21:00
jpatricksmarter: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/SyncRequestProcess21:00
smarterjpatrick: j'ai tout mon temps :)21:00
jpatricksmarter: do that and apachelogger and I will review and approve et tout21:01
smarterok21:01
apacheloggerOo21:01
apacheloggerwtf21:01
apacheloggerjpatrick: that name is so freakish against anything21:01
smarterI don't have a lot of free time today21:01
apacheloggerthat ain't what upstream names it and that ain't what the other packages are named like21:01
apacheloggerwtf21:01
jpatricksmarter: then we ask R!dde|| to bring it across21:02
smarterI'll see what i can do tomorrow21:02
jpatrickapachelogger: nicht mein Schuld!21:02
apacheloggeryeah21:02
apacheloggerstill21:02
apacheloggerwhy would one approve that21:02
smarter+1 with apachelogger21:02
smarterthe diff is full of crap: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/o/oxygencursors/oxygencursors_0.0.2008-01-27-a7b68163e7c8ccc1376-2.diff.gz21:03
ScottK!language > smarter21:05
nixternalsmarter: what are you calling crap in that diff?21:05
ScottKsmarter: We'd like to try and work with Debian and not be confrontational.21:05
smarterautomatically generated .svgs files21:05
smarterdidn't want to be rude, sorry21:05
dinosaur-rushi21:06
mukidohimeIn fact, the pkg-kde team is handing out alioth accounts so we can get our changes in sync.21:06
apacheloggerScottK: what is so bad about the word crap? :)21:06
Trigger7at leasto if someone of you is willing to directly incomrporate fixes into debian to make syncing easier21:07
nixternalwoo, gotta love svg's being xml21:07
apacheloggersmarter: I'm not sure that is c***21:07
ScottKapachelogger: It's more a matter of denigrating people's work, especially when they've just arrived in channel to discuss working closer together.  It's not helpful.21:07
apacheloggeroh, agreed21:07
smarterthe postinst script is actually far more intelligent than mine :)21:07
mukidohimeWe want to get as much of our work in sync as we can.21:07
ScottKAbsolutely21:08
apacheloggersmarter: yeah, just wanted to say that :P21:08
nixternaloh no it's pusling! watch out, he tends to follow me everywhere :p21:08
mukidohimeIt's alright, he's fairly harmless. :>21:08
* pusling walks away from nixternal. just like other ubuntu people he smells like fish.21:08
nixternalI took a shower pusling, so that isn't me smelling like fish :)21:08
smarterI'm not a native english speaker, I didn't know that was a so "rude" word, sorry again21:09
* apachelogger notes that seperated packages would have been nice though21:09
nixternalif you would have said that 2 hours ago, I would have agreed :p21:09
Trigger7pusling: didn't you want to try it this way? http://bash.org/?530021:09
mukidohimeAnyway, we'd like people to have accounts so we can consolidate our changes.21:09
Trigger7smarter: crap is one of the words often very used (in bug reports e.g.) which makes people not really happy21:10
mukidohimeCalling something "crap" tends to be taken as... confrontational.21:10
ScottKYeah.21:11
nixternalmukidohime: I think most of us who already go back and forth between Debian and Kubuntu, who are already in the qt-kde chan have access thus far21:11
mukidohimeYes, but there are others who probably aren't aware of that.21:11
smarters/is full of crap/has built files left/ then21:12
Trigger7nixternal: but is this access really used? i don't remember a single commit to core packages from people not from the core debian kde team21:12
puslingit is full of crap21:12
puslingsorry for that.21:12
mukidohimepusling: Why is it not in /krap then?21:13
puslinghihih.21:13
nixternalTrigger7: umm, I don't know who has core commit access, I am guessing at least Riddell and Hobbsee...I have just kde4 and kde-extras which has worked for the time being for me at least21:13
Trigger7nixternal: with core i meant e.g. kdelibs, kdebase, kdegraphics... from kde 421:13
mukidohimeWe don't separate access quite so strictly.21:14
puslingsmarter: but where is your patch to build it with out the crap in the diff ?21:14
nixternalTrigger7: ahh, I am sure I have access but I don't know about others21:14
smarterpusling: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=oxygen-cursor-theme21:14
ScottKpusling: For myself, I've been looking on the Kubuntu side to do away with stuff that requires us to have a diff first.  I'm currently one kde-guidance change away from being able to just use the Debian python-qt3 packages here.21:14
nixternalI still like the fact of a patch or package review since there are some differences between Debian and Kubuntu packages21:14
mukidohimeScottK2: That's just the idea.21:14
nixternalthe big differences are really with KDE 4 due to the install locations of course21:15
mukidohimeThat shouldn't be a big deal for most of the packaging, though.21:15
Trigger7yeah - but apart from the prefix (and completely different install files for this reason) we shouldn't have much differences21:15
dinosaur-russorry for annoyance, but qt4-dev-tools package is still unusable due to version conflict with libqt4-core (which is newer than needed by the first one)21:15
nixternalmukidohime: no it isn't...actually quite a bit of our packages I know we work on so we just sync them...makes the packaging side of things over here easier21:15
nixternalmukidohime: the reason it would be really nice to work more together, is because we are both comprised of somewhat small teams21:16
ScottKdinosaur-rus: In Hardy?21:16
dinosaur-rusScottK: Gutsy21:16
mukidohimeExactly, we don't have the people to do our work twice.21:16
Trigger7nixternal: right. i't s more or less all about manpower21:17
nixternalya, and we don't want to do the work twice either21:17
ScottKdinosaur-rus: OK.  Is there a bug on this?21:17
puslingsmarter: oh nice. ignores errors on rm.21:18
apacheloggerjpatrick: smarter: I think we should merge, not sync21:18
apacheloggerchange the binary name and split the package like smarter did21:18
apacheloggerI want to use oxygen as default theme for kde 421:18
mukidohimeWe'd like to invite any devs interested in syncing their work to #debian-qt-kde on OFTC.21:18
apacheloggerso we need the white curosrs seperated21:18
ScottKapachelogger: Why not work to get that done in Debian?21:19
mukidohimeWhy would we separate them?21:19
puslingbecause it would save several kb of space.21:19
apacheloggerdo it that way then :)21:19
mukidohimeWell, it doesn't really matter much either way.21:19
dinosaur-rusScottK: yes. it seems that new qt4-dev-tools in in gutsy-updates, why not move it to "regular" repository21:19
apacheloggerI just want my white cursors in oxygen-cursors :P21:19
ScottKdinosaur-rus: We don't do that after release.  You should have gutsy-updates enabled.21:20
mukidohimeOk, well let's get that committed to the alioth.21:20
mukidohimeapachelogger: Got an account?21:20
apacheloggernope21:20
Trigger7did pusling agree? i don't know what he did21:20
mukidohimeWell, would you like one?21:20
apacheloggermukidohime: I'm not sure it would make much sense, I'm quite busy with kubuntu work21:21
apacheloggerso, if you think it would :)21:21
mukidohimeThat's the point, we're also busy with Debian work.21:21
apachelogger^_^21:21
mukidohimeSo instead of working separately, we share the work.21:21
Trigger7apachelogger: and where is the difference between the ubuntu and debian work wrt kde? apart from the different prefix i doN#t see much21:21
apacheloggerwell, how would uploading work?21:22
mukidohimeapachelogger: It's svn.21:22
apacheloggerI mean to the archives21:22
apacheloggerso we can sync/merge21:22
dinosaur-rusScottK: the package in "regular" repository is broken and that won't be fixed?21:22
mukidohimeWe have some who upload the finished results.21:23
ScottKNo, you enable updates.  That's how you get updates.21:23
mukidohimeTo get an account, just go to "https://alioth.debian.org/account/register.php"21:23
apacheloggereitherway taking longer than when I upload straight to the ubuntu archives21:24
mukidohimeTrue, but it means we're also working on it, so you can do something else.21:24
Trigger7apachelogger: we are not talking about binary uploads here, but changes to packages in svn. ubuntu regularly syncs to debian anyway, right?21:24
ScottKapachelogger: Yes and then you have to maintain the diff.  In the long run getting into Debian is better.21:25
ScottKLess time spent on merges and more on useful work.21:25
nixternalplus it is one of the recommendations of being a MOTU...go to Debian first21:26
mukidohimeOnce you have the account, you can join the team and get SVN access at:21:26
mukidohimehttps://alioth.debian.org/project/request.php?group_id=3022121:26
mukidohimeInfo page is here: http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/join.html21:26
dinosaur-rusScottK: oh, thanks. need to fix my sources.list :)21:28
ScottKYou're welcome.21:29
_StefanS_Riddell: I'm having trouble getting that patch thingy working... I keep getting errors that distclean stuff is missing21:33
dinosaur-rusand I have a suggestion: IMHO, update-grub script shouldn't modify any commented parts of menu.lst (e.g. change kernel parameters like root partition from /dev/*** to UUID)21:34
mukidohimemateus? anjum?21:39
mukidohimeLooking for the new account requests.21:40
smartergood night everyone, and sorry to have felt rude ;)21:48
ryanakcadinosaur-rus: report it as a wishlist on launchpad :)21:48
Trigger7smarter: sleep well21:50
nixternalRiddell or toma: with kde 4 copyright headers, are the lgpl v2 only or gpl v2 only licenses still acceptable? there have been a few copyright emails/blogs that has confused me here for a second21:57
* nixternal makes it public: I HATE COPYRIGHT EDITING!21:58
mukidohimeNow it should be dual-licensed v2 and v3.21:58
Riddellnixternal: i don't follow22:00
tomanixternal: new files must fit the new license policy, we are trying to relicense all the old ones22:01
nixternalok, new files22:01
Riddellnixternal: what's isn't GPL?22:02
nixternalRiddell: I don't either honestly...this kpovmodeler package has all kinds of copyright holders, some GPL v2, some LGPL v2, some LGPL v2 or newer and the list continues22:02
Riddellso just say it's GPL 2 with parts LGPL 222:03
nixternalya, I got that down22:03
nixternaltell me if this is OK, I borrwed it from kdegraphics package ->  Upstream Authors: John Doe <jdoe@kde.org> and many others.22:04
nixternalor is it better to just list every copyright holder and their perspective holding dates?22:05
Riddellug, don't list every copyright holder22:06
Riddellthat's impossible to maintain22:06
Riddellyou can look for the copyright info in KAboutData (or just copy it fro kdegraphics indeed)22:06
nixternalgroovy22:07
nixternalthanks22:07
=== uga|away is now known as uga
blueyedRiddell: re copyright: I've thought every copyright holder for each file must be listed? (grouped with "*" where possible, but in general..)?!22:24
ScottKblueyed: Every license MUST be listed, but minor copyright holders can be omitted.22:26
blueyedScottK: that's good to know. Thought it was more strict.22:27
nixternal/usr/include/ft2build.h:56:38: error: freetype/config/ftheader.h: No such file or directory22:30
nixternalwhat is the trick to get around this?22:30
Riddellinstall ftheader.h22:30
nixternalit seems our libfreetype6-dev installs to freetype2/freetype/config/ftheader.h22:31
Riddellso it needs /usr/include/freetype2 added to the include path22:31
Riddellwhich will be some cmake thing22:31
nixternalya22:31
Trigger7FREETYPE_INCLUDE_DIR contains the path to the headers, if FindFreetype.cmake has been used22:33
tomanixternal: Riddell: that is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freetype/+bug/18191322:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 181913 in freetype "freetype, incorrect include dir" [Undecided,Invalid]22:35
tomai think22:36
nixternalya, but it was invalid for some reason..it is all coming back to me now22:37
tomano idea why that is invalid, i dont understand launchpad22:37
mukidohimetoma: Heard you had an issue with MMX/SSE ?22:37
tomame? no. debian has22:38
tomai use code optimized for -mmx and debian removed that compile instruction22:38
mukidohimeIn what?22:39
tomarsibreak22:39
Trigger7toma: you have ;). you should check at runtime if you have a processor with mmx around22:39
mukidohimeWell, then you'll like how I fixed it.22:39
tomaTrigger7: dont run rsibreak if you dont have -mmx22:39
mukidohimeRemember, Debian's not doing the changes, we are. :>22:39
Trigger7toma: so a powerpc/sparc/whatever user shouldn't use rsibreak?22:40
tomano22:40
mukidohimeAnyway, using some code from qimageblitz, I have a patch to make it build and run on any arch, but detect MMX at run time on archs that can use it.22:40
tomathat does not make it work smoothly for them22:41
mukidohimeIt may be a good idea to incorporate it upstream.22:41
Trigger7toma: but isn't "not smoothly" better than not possible to run it at all?22:42
mukidohimeHey, at least they can use it at all.22:42
Trigger7this is what we use in debian right now btw: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-kde/branches/kde4/packages/rsibreak/debian/patches/blitzcpuinfo.diff?op=file&rev=9242&sc=122:42
tomanot sure about that22:42
Trigger7do you consider it that stupid?22:42
tomathey will think it is bad app22:42
dinosaur-rusnixternal: hmm... /usr/include/ft2build.h has a comment "`<prefix>/include/freetype2' must be in your current inclusion path" right before #include directive :)22:42
mukidohimetoma: There really isn't all THAT much in it that requires critical performance.22:43
tomai rather not ship it untill i find a real fix22:43
tomathere is22:43
mukidohimeThat is a real fix.22:43
mukidohimeIt builds MMX code on i386 & amd64, and not on the others.22:43
tomano, it's about performance, not about make it compile22:44
mukidohimeIs there something you can use in qimageblitz directly then?22:44
Trigger7toma: isn't there a generic way to make these grayout effects? and how does it work in the kde 3 rsibreak?22:44
Trigger7\\22:45
tomaother code22:45
Trigger7gna, wrong window22:45
mukidohimeActually, I was thinking you'd want to use kwin to do the effect.22:45
mukidohimeUse the nice compositing, but fall back to some other code if that doesn't work.22:45
dinosaur-rusnixternal: and FreeType Project doesn't seem to be going to fix that (Open/Closed: Closed; Planned Release: None)22:45
Trigger7isn't there also a grayout effect when logging out of kde?22:46
tomathat fits my 'real fix' remark22:46
toma+could22:46
Trigger7k22:46
mukidohimeYeah, that would be a good way to go.22:46
tomauntill then simply exclude the !-mmx archs22:46
mukidohimeIs quasar at all ready?  That might be able to do the effect if you can't use composite.22:47
tomanot sure why you all are so desperate not to do that and ship a shitty app to them22:47
Trigger7toma: even i386 is a non-mmx arch from a debian POV22:47
mukidohimeWell, Debian does support CPUs down to the i386.22:47
toma!language >toma22:47
Riddellmukidohime: I'm pretty sure debian doesn't actually work on a 38622:48
mukidohimeNot that you should be running KDE 4 on a 386...22:48
mukidohimeRiddell: I don't doubt that.22:48
Trigger7Riddell: not 386, but 48622:48
tomait's not my problem22:48
Trigger7then it's not our problem if people consider your app shitty ;)22:49
Trigger7and i don't think they would22:49
tomabuild in a check with exit 0 ;-)22:49
mukidohimetoma: There is a non-mmx grayout command, it's just commented out.22:49
mukidohimeDoes it work?22:50
tomaTrigger7: so? did you here me complain? i gave my opinion wwhen asked.22:50
Riddellanyone want to package marble Qt edition?22:50
mukidohimeRiddell: How does that work with the kdeedu version?22:50
Trigger7Riddell: do you have a seperate marble package, or do you build it out of kdeedu? i remember the author asked us to build both, the kde and the qt version22:51
tomai think its up to the distro to provide the best user experience22:51
mukidohimetoma: we're trying.22:51
Trigger7but the marble build system doesn't allow to build both at once right now22:51
Riddellmukidohime: I expect it conflicts22:51
tomaand their judgement22:51
RiddellTrigger7: yes we will have the old Qt only marble in the archive (I was going to have it removed but now tackat thinks it has worth)22:52
mukidohimeI don't suppose Torsten could separate it a bit more cleanly from kdeedu...22:52
Trigger7Riddell: ah, ok. why not build a qt and a kde version of the "new" marble?22:53
RiddellTrigger7: well that's what I just asked if anyone wanted to help package22:54
emudoes anybody know how much Gigabyte the whole ubuntu-Repositories (main universe multiverse) holds?22:54
mukidohimeI'll take care of it.22:55
mukidohimeNot sure how to reconcile the differences with the kdeedu version.22:55
mukidohimeBut I guess I'll figure that oout.22:55
emuI mean all 23163 packages.22:55
Trigger7Riddell: ah,ok. IMO we should patch the build system to allow to build both versions somehow. maybe with a slightly different name22:55
Riddellmukidohime: Conflicts?22:55
dinosaur-rusemu: why do you need that? want to mirror it?22:55
Trigger7mukidohime: we should build both versions from kdeedu22:55
mukidohimeI think the idea is that marble can be updated independently of kdeedu.22:56
Riddellemu: try #canonical-sysadmin22:56
emudinosaur-rus: Had the crazy Idea to provide a dvd-Repository for the poor people with 56k modems22:56
Trigger7mukidohime: there will be no marble release which is not included in kdeedu AFAIK.22:57
dinosaur-rusemu: that's really crazy :) I'm sure repositories are *much* bigger than DVD :))22:57
emuyeah but maybe three double layer will be enough22:58
mukidohimeOh, I thought we were talking about a separate source package.22:58
emuon the other hand its just interesting to know.22:58
Trigger7mukidohime: there's still the old marble around, which isn't part kdeedu22:59
tomamukidohime, Trigger7: did that make any sense, or do you declare me insane now?22:59
mukidohimetoma: wrt?22:59
tomamy position in this problem22:59
dinosaur-rusemu: may be 3 double-layer double-side? :P22:59
mukidohimeRiddell: This seems like something that really should be done in the build system.23:00
emu*lol*23:00
mukidohimetoma: I'm not really sure. :>23:00
Trigger7toma: more or less insane ;). the problem is, that we normally build everything everywhere on debian. kde is built on arm and crap like this23:00
tomaokay23:01
Trigger7and the grayout effect works, even if it is a bit slow (didn't test it to be honest). so it is noce for the people with mmx and at least usable for people without mmx23:01
mukidohimetoma: Can you leave us with a definitive statement of intent? :>23:01
dinosaur-rusemu: try to sum "installed size" of all packages, that should be more or less accurate :)23:01
Trigger7mukidohime: when you look at kdeedu you can see, that you can either build the qt, or the kde version, but not both.23:02
mukidohimeTrigger7: That's what I mean, there should be an option for both.23:02
tomak, bye23:02
Trigger7mukidohime: yep. i wonder if libmarble is afected by this in any way. i hope is isn't23:03
RiddellTrigger7: libmarblewidget links to libkdecore.so.523:04
mukidohimeWell, it would seem like there should be a clean split between the Qt part and the KDE part.23:04
Trigger7Riddell: gna. to bad23:04
Trigger7does the qt version build a library? maybe it doesn't don't know. have no time to check right now. not even time to chat in theory, but... ;)23:05
mukidohimeRiddell: Can you pass that along to the kdeedu people?23:06
emudonsaur-rus: I don`t knwo how to do this. Can´t find an fitting option on, apt-get, aptitude or dpkg23:07
Riddellmukidohime: which?23:07
mukidohimeThe build system changes to build both versions of marble.23:07
dinosaur-rusemu: use python through its bindings?23:07
emuI will try... thank you.23:08
Riddellmukidohime: I can suggest it to tackat when he's next online23:09
mukidohimeDanke.23:09
mukidohimeThat would make things much simpler.23:09
Trigger7Riddell: cool :) as they wanted to build us both versions (i don't remember who told me, i think it was the current marble maintainer), it whould really be made possible upstream23:11
Riddellnixternal: so I think I'll start uploading 4.0.1 now23:15
nixternalso it is fine to upload my 4.0.1 updates then?23:15
nixternalI have 2 "new" - kgrab and kpovmodeler that I will have jpatrick or apachelogger ack first23:15
nixternalI will dput kpov to revu as soon as my test build finishes23:16
nixternalDEB_CMAKE_EXTRA_FLAGS += -DFREETYPE_INCLUDE_DIR=/usr/include/freetype223:16
nixternalthat fixed the freetype2 for kpov23:16
dinosaur-rusemu: or you can try to use information from "apt-cache dumpavail" or files in /var/liv/apt/lists23:16
Riddellnixternal: just make sure they build-dep on kdelibs5 >= 4.0.123:18
nixternalyup, already done that23:18
blizzzekbye23:20
Trigger7Riddell: btw, what do you think about fixing the stuff you discover directly in our svn?23:21
emudinosaur-rus: do you no if the output from dumpavail is in kilobyte or byte?23:23
dinosaur-rusemu: dunno23:23
dinosaur-rusemu: I guess kilobytes (or there're so many packages smaller than 1KB :) )23:24
RiddellTrigger7: for the most part its better for it to be filtered through people who are a proper part of Debian packaging23:27
dinosaur-rusemu: I got 59'372'74823:29
dinosaur-rusemu: so you'll need more than 3 double-layer double-side disks ;)23:30
emudinosaur-rus: me to... this are nearly 600GB23:30
emuonly a little :)23:30
dinosaur-rusemu: may be 60GB, not 600?23:30
emuuups forgot an 023:32
Trigger7Riddell: k23:32
dinosaur-rusemu: you didn't forget 0, you typed redundant 0 :)23:33
emuI should go to bed...23:33
dinosaur-rusemu: and that's just for one architecture :P23:33
RiddellTrigger7: but lets see how I get on with this qyoto integration into kdebindings23:34
emudinosaur-rus: this will be funny23:34
emugn8@all23:34
dinosaur-rusemu: yeah :)23:34

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