[02:51] <thumper> barry: meeting soon?
[02:51] <barry> thumper: 9 minutes
[02:52] <thumper> barry: ta
[02:52] <mwhudson> dammit, why is by clock slow
[02:52] <barry> mwhudson: okay, 8 minutes :)
[02:52] <mwhudson> barry: my clock says 10 :/
[02:56]  * barry now tries to pull an agenda out of his ass
[03:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[03:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 03:00. The chair is barry.
[03:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[03:00] <barry> welcome everyone to this week's asiapac launchpad reviewer's meeting
[03:00] <barry> who's here today?
[03:00] <thumper> me
[03:01] <mwhudson> me
[03:01] <barry> jtv!
[03:01] <jtv> me
[03:01] <thumper> jml: ping
[03:01] <barry> afaict that's everyone who's here on the channel.  should we expect anyone else?
[03:02] <thumper> barry: jml should be here shortly
[03:02] <jml> Hi
[03:02] <barry> jml hi!
[03:03] <mwhudson> jamesh?
[03:04] <barry> jamesh: hi!
[03:04] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[03:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[03:04] <barry> * Roll call
[03:04] <barry>  * Next meeting
[03:04] <barry>  * Action items
[03:04] <barry>  * Queue status
[03:04] <barry>    * we fell behind during the sprint
[03:04] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[03:04] <barry>  * Review process
[03:04] <barry>    * how to transition from on-caller to the next
[03:04] <barry>    * Tool update
[03:04] <barry>  * On-call reviews
[03:04] <barry>    * Keeping the time to around 8 hours
[03:04] <barry> [TOPIC] next meeting
[03:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
[03:05] <barry> so, today + 1 week?  is this a good time for everyone?
[03:05] <jml> yep
[03:05] <mwhudson> sure
[03:05] <thumper> yep
[03:05] <barry> well, other than jtv ;)
[03:05] <jamesh> yep
[03:06] <barry> great
[03:06] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Action items
[03:06] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Action items
[03:06] <barry> i think all the outstanding action items are for ameu
[03:06] <barry> nothing for asiapac afaict
[03:07] <barry> anybody know of anything i'm missing?
[03:07] <jml> no.
[03:07] <barry> cool
[03:07] <barry> [TOPIC] queue status
[03:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  queue status
[03:07] <barry>    * we fell behind during the sprint
[03:08] <barry> pretty much sums it up.  4 of us were sprinting in florida, so none of us did reviews last week
[03:08] <sinzu1> 6 were sprinting
[03:08] <sinzu1> 4 were on-call
[03:08] <jml> and some were at LCA :)
[03:08] <barry> oh right
[03:08] <jml> I have a question.
[03:08] <jml> Is my queue on PendingReviews still the place to look for reviews that I have to do?
[03:08] <barry> jml: go ahead
[03:09] <thumper> I'd say yes
[03:09] <thumper> (for now)
[03:09] <jml> (excluding on-call day, of course)
[03:09] <barry> jml: yeah, thumper's right.  it's a bit of a mess currently
[03:09]  * barry looks to mwhudson and his PendingReview killing machine
[03:09] <jml> barry: no worry!
[03:10] <mwhudson> barry: we need gmb to finish his bit
[03:10] <barry> jml: to make matters worse, i did a branch assignment after my shift today, so folks do have branches on the PR queue
[03:10] <barry> mwhudson: don't worry, i'll bug him on wednesday :)
[03:11] <jml> barry: move on?
[03:11] <thumper> I do wonder how much work we should put into the PendingReview killing machine
[03:11] <thumper> with the work on LP
[03:11] <thumper> and I'm wondering if there is any way we could sync up more
[03:11] <barry> thumper: ideally maybe the PR killer /is/ LP
[03:11] <mwhudson> thumper: that's a fair point
[03:12] <thumper> particularly I'm thinking of the combination of private remote branches and merge proposals
[03:12] <mwhudson> thumper: it should be fairly easy to switch my plugin over to lp
[03:12] <thumper> we are working on subscriptions for reviews now
[03:12] <mwhudson> (once we have apis, i guess...)
[03:12] <barry> it might be a while before we get the apis to support those though
[03:12] <thumper> anyway, continue
[03:12] <barry> thumper: what do you mean by "sync up more"?
[03:13] <thumper> perhaps just focus our LP work more to help with the review process
[03:13] <thumper> we are doing reviews
[03:13] <thumper> so I'm wondering if we can try to move the review process to LP
[03:13] <thumper> for the listings
[03:13] <thumper> the "what reviews do I need to do"
[03:13] <thumper> type thing
[03:14] <thumper> I'll think some more and get back to y'all later
[03:14] <barry> thumper: yeah, +1 to that.  i do think it's a bit silly to work hard on a separate PR killer unless it's good prototyping for what might eventually get moved to LP
[03:14] <jtv> it'd be great, but having the branches on different projects might complicate things
[03:14] <barry> thumper: please do!
[03:15] <thumper> jtv: I'd suggest that we just use launchpad for branches
[03:15] <thumper> rather than putting them on rosetta or malone
[03:15] <thumper> et al
[03:15] <jamesh> thumper: sqlobject, cscvs, etc?
[03:15] <jtv> then I guess it belongs under the person page
[03:15] <thumper> we could for those too I guess (I had forgotten about them)
[03:16] <spiv> The non-launchpad branches are touched pretty infrequently.
[03:16] <barry> spiv: agreed
[03:16] <thumper> except bzr
[03:16] <jamesh> spiv: PendingReviews currently has branches for zope, launchpad-loggerhead and cscvs
[03:16] <barry> i wouldn't mind special casing them
[03:16] <jml> I suggest a spec!
[03:16] <barry> thumper: but bzr has its own review process
[03:16] <jml> DirtCheapLaunchpadReviewsInLaunchpad
[03:16] <thumper> barry: the launchpad copy of bzr
[03:17] <barry> thumper: ah
[03:17] <jml> because this is prolly out of scope for this meeting
[03:17] <spiv> The launchpad copy of bzr is touched once or twice a month, I think?
[03:17] <thumper> spiv: ack
[03:17] <barry> thumper: do you want to work on a spec, or a wiki page with some thoughts and we can talk about it more on next week or on the m.l.?
[03:18] <mwhudson> if we can get it working just for launchpad landings, it's still a huge win
[03:18] <thumper> barry: action me, and I'll write something somewhere
[03:18] <barry> [ACTION] thumper to write up his thoughts about LP-as-PR-killer
[03:18] <MootBot> ACTION received:  thumper to write up his thoughts about LP-as-PR-killer
[03:18] <barry> anything else on this topic?
[03:18] <barry> 5
[03:18] <jtv> "go thumper"
[03:18] <barry> 4
[03:18] <barry> 3
[03:18]  * mwhudson as forgotten what the topic is :)
[03:18] <barry> 2
[03:18] <barry> 1
[03:18] <jml> Queue Status
[03:18] <thumper> mwhudson: can you ask MootBot
[03:18] <thumper> ?
[03:19] <barry> [TOPIC] mentoring update
[03:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring update
[03:19] <thumper> MootBot: topic?
[03:19]  * thumper was curious
[03:19] <barry> mwhudson: the topic is "mentoring update" :)
[03:19] <jml> I am on neither end of a mentoring stick
[03:19] <thumper> me neither
[03:19] <barry> jml: we can change that if you want :)
[03:19] <spiv> Ooh, MootBot can talk through barry.  That must have been tricky to code... ;)
[03:19] <barry> spiv: not tricky, but a little, um, uncomfortable
[03:19] <mwhudson> jtv is the only non-full-reviewer in the meeting?
[03:19] <jml> barry: I'm open.
[03:20] <mwhudson> i guess we overlap enough with US people to mentor them
[03:20] <thumper> who needs reviewing?
[03:20] <barry> i think i'm looking for a mentor for schwuk
[03:21] <thumper> barry: you probably want someone closer to him than all us
[03:21] <barry> right now all the mentorees are in europe: danilo, allenap, bigjools
[03:21] <barry> and jtv
[03:22] <jtv> "somewhere inbetween"
[03:22] <thumper> who is in asiapac who isn't a reviewer right now?
[03:22] <jtv> thumper: me
[03:22] <thumper> jtv: you're in the middle, so count as a reviewer
[03:22] <barry> jtv: jamesh is your mentor right?
[03:22] <thumper> I was meaning "not in training" even
[03:22] <jtv> barry: right
[03:23] <jtv> thumper: I meant geographically really, but anyway, never mind me then.  :-)
[03:23] <jml> thumper: no one, afaik.
[03:23] <jamesh> I think jtv's reviews have been great, so I'd be happy for him to graduate
[03:23] <jtv> yay!
[03:23] <barry> yay!
[03:23] <thumper> jtv: you are in asiapac
[03:23] <jml> thumper: in fact, we are over-blessed with reviewers, since spiv isn't even on the LP team :)
[03:23] <thumper> jtv: congratulations on your promotion
[03:23] <thumper> :)
[03:23] <jtv> thanks!
[03:23] <sinzu1> \0/
[03:24] <barry> jtv: congrats!  i will make it official after this meeting
[03:24] <barry> i just looked on directory.c.c and i think all of asiapac are now reviewers
[03:24] <thumper> go asiapac!
[03:25] <barry> i think we may soon have some americans (in the broad sense) coming on line soon for reviewing, so there may be enough overlap for y'all to mentor
[03:25] <barry> maybe in a cycle or two
[03:25] <mwhudson> it's probably a /little bit/ soon to get Aaron on the team :)
[03:26] <thumper> just a little
[03:26] <barry> i'll ask schwuk what he thinks about having an asiapac mentor.  if he's okay with it and one of y'all is too, then that's fine with me
[03:27] <barry> anyway...
[03:27] <mwhudson> i'm not sure it's a good idea, unless he keeps strange work hours
[03:27]  * thumper agrees with mwhudson
[03:27] <barry> mwhudson: you're probably right.  maybe we just have to wait until we get some ameu slots open then
[03:27] <barry> such is life
[03:28] <barry> anything else on this topic?
[03:28] <barry> 5
[03:28] <barry> 4
[03:28] <jml> not from such as I!
[03:28] <barry> 3
[03:28] <barry> 2
[03:28] <barry> 1
[03:28] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Review process
[03:28] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Review process
[03:28] <barry> there's probably not much to say about the tool, right?
[03:29] <barry> (that we haven't already said)
[03:29] <jtv> except it stopped working for me :(
[03:29] <barry> jtv: you mean the lpreview plugin?
[03:29] <jtv> barry: right
[03:29] <mwhudson> well, i'm here to hear the comments now, i guess
[03:29] <jtv> but the same happened to pqm-submit, so it may be my system.
[03:29]  * barry will be using it tomorrow :)
[03:29] <jml> mwhudson: has abentley talked to you about it?
[03:30] <jamesh> jtv: for sending email, or other?
[03:30] <jtv> jamesh: sending email
[03:30] <sinzui> jtv: did you mail setting change?
[03:30] <mwhudson> jml: he sent me a couple of bundles to fix some option texts
[03:30] <jtv> sinzui: not that I _know_
[03:30] <mwhudson> jml: but nothing very significant
[03:30] <jamesh> jtv: bzr-pqm-0.92 should be able to send through Canonical's SMTP server if you want to try that
[03:30] <mwhudson> jtv: review-submit uses the stdlib's smtplib module
[03:31] <jtv> jamesh: I already use that server.  Maybe that's the problem: it's certificate expired
[03:31] <jtv> s/it's/its/
[03:32] <jamesh> mwhudson: so does bzr-pqm, but the Canonical server is pretty picky about the sequence of commands
[03:32] <jamesh> ehlo, starttls, ehlo, auth, then send message using an @canonical.com address
[03:32] <jtv> jamesh: sounds like it... my mail client routinely claims it's "not an IMAP4 server"
[03:32] <jtv> jamesh: scratch that, my coffee's still too hot for thought
[03:33] <mwhudson> jamesh: still, no idea why it would _stop_ working if it once did
[03:33] <mwhudson> anyway, off topic
[03:34] <barry> moving on?
[03:34] <jtv> moving on
[03:34] <barry>    * how to transition from on-caller to the next
[03:34] <barry> so i'm still unsure of the best way to transition to the next on-caller.  i just did as many reviews as i could, then assigned all the general branches to people
[03:35] <jml> barry: what are the issues?
[03:35] <barry> but what if people show up looking for on-call reviews and their branches are sitting in someone else's queue?
[03:35] <barry> is that a problem?
[03:35] <thumper> the reviewer should get to them within 24 hours
[03:35] <mwhudson> barry: they check that the assigned reviewer hasn't started them and whip them out of the queue?
[03:36] <jml> barry: as in, someone asked for an on-call review and the on-caller passed the buck?
[03:36] <barry> jml: yeah.  i did that to one of intellectronica's branches today.  i just couldn't get to it
[03:37] <barry> mwhudson: yeah i guess so.  if the reviewer is unresponsive though (because of timezones or whatever) it makes things tricky
[03:37] <jamesh> if the branch isn't on the top of someone else's queue, maybe it should be fair game
[03:37] <jml> barry: I reckon just pass the buck and send them a note.
[03:37] <jml> barry: the burden still lies with the branch author
[03:37] <jamesh> that said, we don't really distinguish between "hasn't been looked at yet", and "developer put branch back into needs-review state"
[03:37] <jamesh> so it is difficult to say what the top of someone's queue is
[03:38] <barry> jamesh: maybe we need "started" and "needs-further-review" states?
[03:38] <jml> no we don't!
[03:38] <thumper> barry: people don't edit the wiki now
[03:38] <mwhudson> barry: going to sleep with a half-done review sounds like a bad idea
[03:38] <thumper> barry: it'll be worse if you make them do it more
[03:38] <jml> we need to KISS until it's part of Launchpad
[03:38] <jtv> mwhudson: might be lunch though
[03:38] <jamesh> I tend to agree with jml here
[03:38] <jml> then we can over-engineer it for fun _and_ profit :)
[03:39] <barry> yeah, okay.  if you guys say "it's not a problem" then i'll go to sleep and forget i ever mentioned it :)
[03:40] <barry> just take notes if you find lines getting crossed and we'll figure out how to fix it when it happens
[03:40] <mwhudson> okidoke
[03:40] <barry> cool.  moving on...
[03:41] <barry> [TOPIC]  * On-call reviews
[03:41] <MootBot> New Topic:   * On-call reviews
[03:41] <barry>    * Keeping the time to around 8 hours
[03:41] <barry> sinzui: you had some concerns about exceeding 8 hours on reviews.  do you want a few minutes to talk about it here?
[03:42] <sinzui> barry: I sent an email outlining my concerns. I have nothing to add right now
[03:42] <barry> sinzui: cool.
[03:42] <barry> that's all i have.  we have 3 more minutes for any other topic not on the agenda
[03:42] <mwhudson> i should get myself an on-call slot
[03:42] <barry> open floor
[03:43] <barry> mwhudson: +1
[03:43] <mwhudson> thursdays again looks like a reasonable choice
[03:43] <barry> mwhudson: thursday asiapac slot?
[03:44] <mwhudson> barry: yep
[03:44] <mwhudson> might be cheeky and not spend all day this week on it though
[03:44] <mwhudson> (i'm off tomorrow)
[03:45] <barry> mwhudson: np.  btw, hope the move went smoothly!
[03:45] <mwhudson> barry: seems to be going ok so far :)
[03:45] <barry> mwhudson: can you edit OnCallReviewers?
[03:45] <mwhudson> barry: sure
[03:45] <barry> thanks
[03:45] <barry> well, we're out of time, so...
[03:45] <barry> #endmeeting
[03:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 03:45.
[03:45] <barry> thanks everyone and good night!
[03:45] <jtv> barry: thank you, nice to see you again.  :-)
[03:46] <thumper> barry: thanks
[03:46] <barry> you too, and congrats jtv
[03:46] <jml> barry: g'night